Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

This episode covers Babylon 5 Season 2 Episode 14, And Now for a Word.

News Theme 1 & 2 by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

Artist: http://audionautix.com/

Heads up listeners.

We just wanted to let you know ahead of time that there's going to be some

discussion of slavery in this episode.

So just a quick content warning.

If that's going to be difficult for you, feel free to skip this one.

We'll see you next time.

Hello, and welcome to who are you at?

Babylon five.

Watch casts by a couple of strangers now friends.

Who are getting to know each other over one of their favorite

shows from their childhood.

Babylon five.

I'm Laura.

And I'm

And today I get to ask your fair.

What do you want?

Um, I want to feel better.

I know.

it's, uh, it's my birthday

know, happy birthday.

Thank you.

and my roommate got me COVID for my birthday.

Really the worst roommate move.

Now it's now he's, he's been, he's been really good about quarantining

himself and have to take care of him.

It's fine.

It's it's, it's a joke.

I'm not actually upset at him at all.

and he actually made a very large apology about giving me COVID for

my birthday to meet this morning.

And I've never been someone who like, it's my birthday, whatever, like.

It's also a Sunday.

It's not like you're going to tear up the town on a Sunday night.

Like yeah.

Yeah, I was going to go bowling.

I had kinda like set up bowling with my mom and my sister.

And.

Uh, my aunt and a couple of my friends.

Um, in the area.

We kind of like a low key, just maybe like eight or nine of us kind of a thing.

because almost everyone I know.

Had no someone or has had COVID in like the last three weeks.

It feels like it's crazy right now.

Sure does it, does it, it.

To the point where I'm actually low key, kind of

glad I have COVID right now.

I think.

because it means that I will be fine by the time star

Trek, Las Vegas rolls around.

Yeah, definitely.

And in two weeks, And I'll be like, I'll have fresh immunity of

the current variant for this giant gathering of nerds that I've been

looking forward to for a very long time.

So.

Yeah, you'll be walking around with those fresh antibodies.

Right.

Yeah.

That good, good antibody.

Yeah.

It's not too bad right now.

I'm I'm low key miserable.

Um, I've got a headache and my voice is hoarse.

So.

If, uh, I, I don't think I, I don't expect to lose my voice by the end

of this episode, but I'm going to do more talking in the next hour than

I have done in the last two days.

So, sorry in advance listener.

We'll see.

When we get there.

We'll carry you through it.

We'll get through

I appreciate it.

I'm really, I was really sorry about the way this week shook

out that we were going to have to record on your birthday at all.

And then when you told me you felt bad this morning, I was

like, oh, Oh, I'm a bad friend.

Yeah, it's fine.

Well, we'll get through it.

Yeah, we'll we'll get there.

so not a whole lot besides that.

Um, I hope that I, I want to feel better.

That's that's what I want this time.

And I will.

I'm sure.

You know, and, uh, it's not it's that bad.

Um, I had COVID in September of 2020.

And that was bad.

Yeah.

I don't know if I talked about that at all on pod.

Uh, you.

I don't remember if we have either.

I know you've mentioned it to me privately.

Okay.

Yeah, I had it.

I mean, I was not hospitalized, but I had two flags for hospitalization

that if they had progressed.

One half step further, I would have been hospitalized.

My blood oxygen dropped to just about 90.

Which is you go drop a low 90 that's the

That's bad.

Yeah.

And then I had a resting heart rate of 1 38 for about 24

hours.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

That that beat me up bad.

That that was the worst part of it to be perfectly honest.

Well, I have my fingers crossed that Your immunity boosting and your,

you know, this is a different variant.

It doesn't.

And I'm all Vaxxed up and boosted and all that.

And.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's see how it goes.

Yeah.

I mean the most I can do right now is just be good to my body.

Hydrate.

I made a ton of bread and soup stock yesterday, anticipating not being able

to do it for the next couple of days.

If it takes a turn, so.

I'm well-prepared.

All right, everybody think good thoughts for Jafar?

This week.

By the time you're listening to this, hopefully I'll be feeling better.

I really hope so.

So we're wishing for a job fair to get better.

And today we're going to talk about.

One of my favorite episodes.

I'll just start spoiling the end of this episode for everyone.

And now for a word.

Season two episode 14.

Yeah.

It's Dateline, yo.

That's exactly what I wrote down.

I said, open on a Dateline ISN intro.

I have to wonder if this episode were made today, if it would

get a more John Oliver style treatment.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

I could see that.

Or.

You wouldn't get at like one of those YouTube.

news station kind of.

Yeah, a young

Turk style kind of a thing.

This is this very much feels of its time, much more so than

most things in Babylon five.

not counting the CGI.

this felt firmly, like I was watching nineties news for a minute.

Yes.

I mean, this is smashing a certain button for me.

I think that's part of my enjoyment of this episode is that I remember

this TV from other contexts.

It was a very nice.

Melding of two.

Things that existed in the world at this time, you know, we had our, our

scifi show that we love, and then we had this sort of news style that was.

Endemic everywhere.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of that too.

There's a lot of things that touchstone to our current reality in here.

If you scrubbed a 41 59,

Remaining in the episode because yeah, because HBO, max is terrible now.

Um, I shouldn't say that they haven't canceled Harley Quinn and they still

have a chance to not be terrible.

This is your chance.

HBO, max, you better pull it out.

Okay.

Tell us what's here.

So this is the, space freighter that they're arriving on.

Look at, in the top right corner at the space rear view mirror.

And you will see a tree air freshener hanging in the window of this space.

Freighter.

Oh, my gosh.

There it is.

But it's adorable.

I love it.

They spent CGI money on that.

I'm glad that we kept the pine tree air freshener into the century.

That's that's an important part of any sort of vehicular travel.

It's it looks like it's the, uh, the black ice one

though, which I never understood.

One.

What that smell was.

And two, why you would name something for our car, black ice.

Maybe that's just cause I live in Michigan.

And that's like a worry here,

That's a genuine concern.

Yeah.

The.

No, that's great.

I love it.

Yeah.

So one of the things we find out at the beginning here is that we're

midway through September at this point.

In our Babylon five year.

Which is.

fast.

Yeah,

It feels like it's fast.

It wasn't.

Yeah, because the last season was just a year.

Right.

So we ended on new year's Eve.

Alright, went into a little into new year's day and passed, but for the most

part, season one was just that year.

And to be in September with.

Almost well, we've got six, seven episodes left.

Yeah.

We're going to cram.

A lot into that last quarter.

Or maybe if, if we're sticking with the year thing, which I

honestly don't remember if we did.

But if we're sticking with a season is equal to a year.

I think, I think the intros in play that don't, they.

Yeah.

Okay.

So.

we're going to have a busy last quarter on Babylon five.

Cynthia torque, men is going to be our guide.

Throughout this episode, she's a reporter.

She had such an air about her, this actress.

Then I was like, what else have I seen her?

And I've got to have seen her in something else.

And I, I Googled her.

And, uh, she was a big soap opera actress, which.

Plays well in this episode, but I.

I'm not a soap opera watcher, so I couldn't really find anything else

she'd been in that I'd watched.

Did you look up any of the other actors in this episode?

Honestly, I didn't do you got a good one for

Oh, just you wait, we'll wait until we get there.

You're

Okay.

I'm happy.

I love it.

So, yeah.

Uh, we see the neuron and Suntory fight off the docking bay.

We find that the specialist sponsored by interplanetary expeditions.

Which is the same group that sponsored shitty mega man outfit in season one.

Yeah.

And.

We also heard that that's who.

Sheridan's wife went off with right.

think

That she went off with interplanetary expeditions.

When, when his sister came to the station, I think that they talked

I think that's what they said.

Yeah.

I'd have to double check that, but

So they're sponsoring this episode.

Good.

I asked Erin.

And like when I was making my notes, we always do our walk through together.

And then I make a notes watch through.

I asked him for his thoughts on ISN after watching this episode.

Because you, and I know.

That there's going to be more with ISN

Yeah.

So he, his read on it as someone who's never watched the show before.

Was that, you know, ISN.

It has an agenda.

He's like, I don't feel like it's like our Fox news level agenda.

Um, but the reporter comes off with.

It's a bit of a muck Raker, a bit revisionist.

so she's not doing total propaganda, but she asks a lot of really

leading questions, which is.

Kind of a slippery slope to be on.

For sure.

There's one of the, uh, what I would refer to as one of the classic blunders.

In here.

which is they make a point of calling themselves, the most important.

News station in the galaxy.

Oh, no.

is not quite as bad as the thing that I'm thinking of, which is

something that my dad used to say.

Which given how hard he fell into conservative news media, I think

is mildly hilarious in retrospect.

anyone who tells you that they're the only person you can trust is lying to you.

Is one of my dad's favorite isms.

Um, oh gosh, I see the irony now.

Yeah.

Like, so he's just like, if someone tells you that you can't trust anyone else with

them, they're the one that's lying to.

You always no fail.

And it's just like, Hmm.

Building their ism.

Getting there.

All right.

Neat.

Yeah.

So , the, ship conflict happens outside Babylon five.

She tells us they're going to spend 36 hours there, which.

This is a hell of a lot of shit for 36 hours.

Yeah, it's a busy 36 hours for sure.

I mean when you get there and it starts with a fight off.

Front of the station.

Yup.

We come back and the ISN crew is filming the aftermath.

We've got medics running everywhere.

We're in a docking bay.

Cynthia tries to get comments from two very busy and very

important people in this process.

Uh,

The wrong time to ask Dr.

Franklin something, when he's treating people.

Yeah.

He's in full triaged mode.

And then captain Sheridan.

also dismisses her.

so we cut to Londo.

And he's pontificating about the Narcan's.

He just leaves it on.

Thick.

Oh, he's blowing so much smoke up her ass.

That she's she looks like she's got.

Sirius wildfire going on inside her ears.

Like this is a problem.

You know, he's, he's talking about.

The neurons are violating the spirit of Babylon five.

He's horrified the NARKN would put the humans in danger.

Our friends.

The humans.

but there's a really masterful shot at the end of the scene where they.

Pause right after split second, right after his statement.

And we see his face.

And you just know he's full of shit.

Yeah.

And we cut to the car saying that Londo is full of shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dzhokhar's calling bullshit.

Has he's west winging through his interview.

Mm.

Yeah.

and then we cut to some more bits from a handful of

characters we've seen before.

We got our favorite dock supervisor.

Hey.

Edward Idelvion toes.

I, and he reminds us about, by any means necessary.

He says, you know, oh, we, we had some trouble, but Sinclair worked it out.

and he seems happy and well compensated now.

And I just

love that for him.

I'm so happy

Yeah, we stand a labor union here on this podcast.

Cynthia keeps doing her some interviews of regular people

at next goes to Lieutenant Corwin.

Who this is his name.

This is when he gets his name.

He has not had a name yet.

Until

Oh, really?

I didn't realize that.

Yup.

Awesome.

Uh, this is.

so good.

It's the best scene that this actor.

Actor does in this whole show, I think.

A hundred percent.

so Corwin is getting interviewed and Ivanova is.

In camera in focus, but in the background,

Hovering just hovering behind

Right.

And he's just not like, no, no one's ever gotten angry in CNC.

This is a very safe and good and calm workplace.

And she she's just like nodding and smiling, just like, yes.

Blink twice.

If you need help, Corwin.

He's just lying through his teeth.

The scene for me, work of art everything's about, about it is perfect.

I love it.

If you skipped this episode.

and are listening to this podcast.

Just go watch this one scene.

Yeah.

There's there's a couple individual seeds in here that I'm like, you got to watch.

At least the scene.

this is one of them.

We cut to captain Sheridan's interview and he's, throwing some

of those cheesy inspo lines at us.

he's he's exuding, Dad boss energy.

which is very different than dad commander energy.

To be absolutely clear.

Um, dad, boss energy is your guy.

This is like your, your shitty boss who was trying to be your friend.

You know, but like, it's just clearly a company, dude.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's the fives from this interview.

Sinclair was good at dad commander energy.

Well, I think honestly, uh, and we'll talk about it at the

end, but this is the episode we're shared and really, I feel like it

becomes the commander of the station.

Okay.

I can see that.

Yeah.

In my eyes and it's not in one of these interview segments, like

this is clearly him playing the part.

He knows he has to play.

Yes.

Um, because if he says the wrong thing here, yeah.

If he says the wrong thing, he's getting replaced and he knows it.

because he was placed there by Santiago, but with Clark's approval because

Clark thinks he knows who he is.

And so we've established that in all the conspiracy stuff in the background and

the low key resistance stuff we've seen.

So he just, he knows he's on ISA and he knows there's a billion something.

People watching this.

He's got to do these things.

And he does it.

Good.

Yeah, he's

walking a very fine line.

Yeah.

Totally.

we get a shout out to former Senator Hitoshi in this interview too.

I caught that too.

Yeah, so he must be retired now.

Yeah, she tries to throw Management.

I'm saying that with quotes around it under the bus.

So I'm like, is she talking about.

Sinclair did a bad job.

The committee did a previous committee, did a bad job.

Former Senator had Doshi did a bad job.

Like, what is her angle?

I'm not totally clear on that, but.

Well, it all lines up with Clark, right.

And you know, they call it out later.

It's it's jingoistic.

Bullshit.

I think I say that three or four times over the course of my notes.

You

can't not in this episode.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll even share it and says that at one point.

And I was just all like, oh,

validated.

right.

Exactly.

And it's just, it's that attitude it's, you know, Clark is preparing

earth for a isolationist shift.

And when you try to be an isolationist power.

Owning and running the UN doesn't exactly fit in with

Right.

These two things are diametrically opposed.

And if you want to cut budget for more warships.

A good place to do.

It would be to have this not be what it is.

Yeah, you can't have the peace station.

Sucking up some of those precious dollars credits, whatever we call them.

this is also an episode.

I just want to point out if you haven't watched it recently,

listener that you got to watch it.

You can't just sit there and listen to it and do something else because you get

some fun stuff that pops up on the screen.

There's lots of in the backgrounds like you have on your local news.

You know, like someone sees a camera and a reporter there's people

freaking out like and waving into the background of the camera consistently.

And then the ISN folks also have little things that pop up on the screen.

And one of them that pops up in this scene is that we've got the new

Lloyd's of London odds on Babylon five.

On their success.

Success.

So that's a

Fucking Lloyd's still around.

There's Las Vegas and new Vegas outs.

I

love

Do you Vegas?

Is on Mars.

Per JMS queue.

Uh, notes on Usenet.

Obviously, obviously that, you know, Vegas moves to Mars.

Of

course.

We cut to Dr.

Franklin, who is being modeled in the very finest Alan Alder tradition.

For sure.

he tells us the story about when he was a kid.

I think he says, he

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

He tells the story about when he's kid, he goes for, he goes on a

rant about how terrible spaces.

Like.

At first.

And honestly it gave me big star Trek, 2009 McCoy vibes.

Yeah.

what a fucking story he tells.

Right.

Yeah.

He knew someone who accidentally spaced themselves.

How do airlocks not have safeties.

Like, I feel like if you're asking me to design an air lock today,

With zero spacefaring experience and zero air lock design experience.

The third thing I'm doing besides the two door, like it's

door one door, two closed room.

Like you've got cameras.

You should be able to tell if the person in there is in a space suit or not.

Before you opened the other door.

Is there a living organism in here?

We have this technology we can say yes or no definitively very quickly.

No open the door.

Yes.

Are they in a space suit?

I could write this with a Microsoft connect, a raspberry PI.

And two hours of time.

It is not that difficult.

It's really important, actually.

So important.

How is this a thing?

This whole conversation, this whole scene.

I was thinking, wow, this is his story is really taking a shot at

Garibaldi because we can count.

Many times that Garibaldi has.

Jokingly or, you know, some sort of threat to space, someone.

Or throw them out in airlock.

And Dr.

Franklin is very traumatized by this and I've kind of makes me want

to go back and see if any of these threats have been around Franklin.

But.

I feel like they have, and I feel like he got to give

him a bunch of shit about one.

Yeah, I could see it.

I feel like there was one time where he was talking about spacing,

a bunch of lurkers, and he's just all like, knock that the fuck off.

Yeah.

So.

he he's.

rating.

This episode.

If there's any time to do it, it's now.

Yeah, this story is terrible about just this kid.

Getting air locked.

Yeah.

And my son was like, Surely you do die instantly in space and I'm like, no.

No.

you don't,

he doesn't believe it, but he doesn't have to find out.

So it's fine.

Yeah.

you would eventually suffocate.

but you don't freeze.

That's the thing that they get wrong here, his eyes.

Well, they might've been frozen, so.

The whole thing with freezing and spaces, temperature is a property of matter.

There is no matter in a vacuum.

So space would be avoid.

Uh, true void is, is temperature lists.

Temperature is not a state that had, has.

That's wild.

And so you wouldn't lose temperature because you it's,

there's no matter touching you.

To transfer the temperature to.

You are the temperature.

You are the temperature.

Exactly.

Now, given the story is like they had just kind of taken off from space.

There might be enough like ambient atmosphere and moisture

surrounding the ship still that it hasn't completely purged.

I don't know how much of that stuff sticks onto a ship.

and how far they were.

We don't know how close they were.

So theoretically, and also there could have been air in the air lock that had.

When it purged, if it didn't suck all the air in and then open the

door, if it just opened the door and what space do the work, then there

would've been all the air there that could've transferred temperature to.

but really you don't freeze.

It's, it's a whole thing.

Thanks for the physics lesson.

Any time.

Okay.

So Cynthia reminds us about all the violence accidents, death things,

people that have died on this station.

before she comes to Dzhokhar.

And some of the non population.

That have announced that the Centauri were carrying WMDs.

Don Don.

That's why they shot the ship down.

Yeah, he's look.

Jakarta is totally sure Iraq had those weapons of mass

destruction and there are 10 wants.

An attack was totally justified.

All right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, oops.

Tonight.

Did I say Iraq, my bad.

At least, uh, these can, you know, there's debris we can scan, we can, we

can actually find something theoretically.

Oh, in the next scene, Cynthia tells us about there's a

new office of public morale.

And that president Clark, according to this office of public morale.

Is becoming more popular.

Due to his whole earth first.

Thing.

and then she introduces us to a new guy.

We haven't seen this guy before.

Senator Robert Cantrell.

He's supposedly the new chairman of the oversight committee.

This guy.

Did this guy look familiar to you at

all?

know, he's got that.

that.

familiarity.

From something we've watched,

maybe something

we've watched on this podcast.

Oh, no.

Oh,

it's captain Bosch from Chad.

Oh, my God.

I don't know why I didn't catch that.

Nice.

Okay.

I had to triple check.

Cause I'm like, there's no way.

There's no way captain Bosch is in Babylon five and our Chad podcast.

I didn't call it out or maybe we've even dead and forgot

about it.

But.

No, I don't think we

It's like, oh no, I woulda, I did so much digging into these actors.

I wouldn't have missed this.

And it's literally like, if you look at his IMDV page, it's like Babylon five

and shot are like the two top things.

Oh, this poor man.

Uh, Chad, it's the gift that keeps on giving.

I know that you didn't want to watch it.

And listener, I can statistically prove that you

didn't want to listen to us.

Talk about it.

Oh, See, all those people that skip that episode.

Don't you wish you had now.

Don't it's.

I mean, art at the Garretts find episode of our podcast, but.

The movie is trash.

NA.

Yeah.

It's a, it's an hour and a half I'll never get back

Yeah, you're right.

He's thrown a lot of shade at earth, and how, uh, they might have

a chance against them in Bari now.

And then share it and just.

Oh,

pissed.

Yeah, he's just such a jackass because he's, you know, he's like

the new chairman of the committee, but he's like, man, I hate this job.

Like, we're trying to make it work.

It costs a lot of money.

We don't need it now that our military is so strong, we can take on anybody.

We don't

Yeah.

Uh,

Uh, and Sheridan is pissed.

They must've

shown him this footage.

Yeah.

For sure, because he responds to it directly.

He's called out the jingoism, quarterbacking.

And I think there's maybe a good allegory there.

That Sheridan is also calling him a draft Dodger.

Hmm.

Because he mentions, you know, Some of us fought in the war.

and the implication there is that some of you didn't.

for sure.

So at the end of this, Cynthia, Kind of revises the actuality of the past.

Bye.

Reminding Sheridan, Sheridan references, the men Bari war, like it was lost.

And she reminds him that we

we won.

the war.

Bari surrendered.

So I, it makes me wonder, like, is that her revising the past or

do civilians legitimately not know how close the war was to being

They were out.

They were literally destroying everything outside of earth orbit, like.

I don't think you cannot know.

That'd be, that'd be like nine 11 happening and you not knowing.

You know, like at least if you were in America, At that time, you know, like

you were, you were cognizant of that.

Just like any other attack on a country that I'm sure if you were

living in, you would be aware of it.

So.

And there was no way you could know.

This scene has another one of those moments, right?

At the end, that is just a masterpiece to me.

When Sheridan is clearly frustrated.

With her lack of understanding or recognition of the full situation.

And.

That he also can't enlighten her

Yeah.

Big mood.

after this, we get a interview with Nova.

Oh, God.

She commits to terrible crimes here.

This reporter.

She mispronounces Yvanova's name and her as

perky.

Yeah.

Is there a great crimes.

Uh, yeah, it's just, I mean, Personally.

I understand so much.

Out of it.

On a very deep level.

I understand having someone mispronounced your name.

So terribly and just not having the energy to correct them.

Just like, it's not worth the five minutes.

It's going to take you to teach for you to pronounce my name.

So we're just going to move on with our lives.

Poor Ivanova porch affair.

At the end though.

She's like that can't be the whole story.

And she's just like, yes.

It's not fuck off.

Chef's kiss.

To move the story along.

She tells us that the team is looking through this entire debris to see if she

can corroborate the non claims at all.

And then we cut to Garibaldi.

We haven't seen

Yeah.

And like most cops he's instantly worried about getting fired as

soon as he knows he's on camera.

Oh, my God.

Isn't that very telling.

That the first thing out of your mouth, is that not confidence inspiring

line that you're just trying not to

get fired here.

Man.

Boy,

that's a big mood too.

Ivanova interrupts their interview.

Thank God.

to tell them that the sweep results are in she tells

Garibaldi, she needs him right now.

we get another sort of like mixing it up.

Peace

Cynthia goes to visit caution.

It goes exactly as expected.

Yeah.

But, you know what, uh, Erin pointed out in the scene, he

was like, Kosh Nara, neck, huh?

Like, I don't know that we'd really heard his full name.

Yet.

Because he, he didn't know it, you know, maybe it's something he missed

in an earlier episode, but you and I know cautious, full name cause.

it comes up.

You

know, We've seen enough, but.

yeah.

tries to leave his quarters and immediately backs

just like

That's

great.

And so she's really disappointed.

Instead, she goes to torture Dolin.

Oh, this scene.

This is a lot, There's actually a little bit, uh, JMS has notes on this.

Where like culturally, this is probably the most disrespectful

thing in Ari culture.

Is to like, Is to take someone like, cause they're leaders, like you don't

even know who their leaders are.

Right.

Like they're their leaders.

There's absolute trust in our leaders that they're going to operate for

the benefit of all men Bari society.

And they were made hidden in the populace to better understand

the populace at a ground level.

Is I think the idea, you know, like there of the people definitively.

And that also means that they've never been questioned.

Only by their peers.

Have you, would you ever be questioned if no one knows if no

one knows your gray council, right.

and then you, no one would be able to be like, Hey, so why did we

start that war with the humans?

Like this would never happen in Ambari culture because the only people who

would know you were of a position to make these decisions are also have

a position to make these decisions.

Or like your aides and your support staff, like the people who intrinsically

have your back as their job.

And so for like, I don't even know if the men Bari have like, News media.

there's

gotta be something you would think.

But.

Um, The you wouldn't be able to like, just interview gray

council members on the MBARI news.

Like this is not something that happens culturally for them.

Yeah, because anybody

Yeah.

And so for her to just be questioned on the validity of her decision-making.

It never, wouldn't never be a thing that even occurs to her.

Culturally speaking.

And so when it happens and she doesn't have answers, You

know, She's just so shocked.

I mean, she starts crying.

Um, It is.

And she, I mean, she tells you, you know, her decision was altruistic.

She literally gave up a piece of herself to be a bridge between our two peoples.

And it was like, didn't ask you for that.

Yeah.

She's like, we might actually find this insulting.

And.

It's not something Dylan really considered because she's literally doing

it out of the goodness of her heart.

And, uh, yeah, it's.

You know, they make nice for a second.

And then Cynthia just goes for the juggler.

It's

right.

It hurts.

She gets saved by the beep.

As she gets called to the

Yep.

There's a lot of saved by the beep in this episode.

Yeah.

So we all get called to the council room.

Of course, Cynthia is coming along.

And Jakarta is riling up all the non-aligned worlds because he

has heard the news that yes, this entirely ships were carrying weapons.

Sheridan's wearing his dress uniform, which just fabulous.

Whenever we break these things out.

I'm always happy.

I don't think there's a dress uniform.

I like better than the Babylon five ones.

It's my fave.

I love.

The uniforms that are coming.

Yeah.

The, or they're not, are they black?

They're black and green with purple.

I think.

Yeah.

I'd have to

just, I just remember the cut of them being excellent.

I like these

Yeah.

Uh, when's your car's going off about the parts that are found in there.

He does note that they found components for mass drivers.

Which is.

That we know those are bad.

Um, they don't tell us what they are.

Yet.

I don't think they've told us what they are.

but we'll definitely find out later in And the series, what they are and, uh,

It is.

I have a, a mass driver card in my Babylon five cards, I think.

Yeah.

Gonna be a big thing.

well, I was trying to be a pedantic jerk.

By pointing out the weapons were transferred off the station.

Like outside.

Of the station.

So it's fine.

And he's crying about his sovereign rights.

Like a little baby.

this whole fight is just.

Excellently paced.

Yeah.

Everything is so like rapid-fire back and forth.

these actors nailed all their spots.

So they're trying to get the Centauri.

Two.

Agree to leave, try to figure out the situation, but then the power goes out.

power flickers.

We head to the outside cameras, which I do question how Cynthia's like.

Wired into

Right that.

I mean.

I guess the low key implication.

And I didn't think of it until just now.

Is that there are, I mean, clearly they're operating with earth gov support.

Maybe that's something they were given as part of this trip.

Was all like here, here's a console, like.

Um, don't ask me how you got this, but here's a console.

They'll let you see the outside cameras of Babylon five in case you need it.

Yeah.

That is I can, I can buy that explanation.

Yeah.

Sheridan after this authorizes force and defending the station.

As a fight.

breaks out.

There's freighters

right now.

right

Oh, yeah.

Yeah,

that's it.

Yeah.

We've

got freighters fighting one another

Nar-Anon Centauri.

And earnings and tire readers are fighting each other.

Uh, they send out star Fury's to try and calm them down and be like, knock it off.

And then they fire and Sheridan says we've got to defend the

occupants of the station.

And the star Fury's disable a handful of the centaurian hardships.

Yeah.

notably our star fairies are firing only at weapons and engines.

We're not trying to kill anybody.

We're just trying to disable everybody.

. And, we throw everybody in the brig.

after they surrender.

After this, we get an interview with your car,

explaining the Suntory occupation.

And fuck.

Yeah.

this is heavy.

I think this is the most details we've gotten

on it.

We've had vague illusions.

Prior.

but now we get a personal story

attached to it.

We get such a personal story in such details.

Given Dzhokhar's kind of, emo, I have to wonder if this is falsified.

Really.

would not.

I would not be surprised either way to be perfectly honest.

But your car knows the power of propaganda.

He knows what he's on.

He knows he's on ISS and he knows that this is how you get the

humans to help you in your war, is something he's been trying to do.

Yeah.

He, he does tie it to the humans

He ties it to the humans In two ways.

So he talks about slavery and he does make it sound like.

Like he could have watched.

You know, like something terrible, like birth of a nation or something.

And come up with this story.

Very easily.

for what slavery was like on earth.

And then also he says, you know, never again, which is of course,

reference to the Holocaust.

and so just like to do those things, to kind of tap into the human Zeit

Geist and their experiences of slavery.

So specifically.

You know, it seems.

It seems almost too convenient.

To me.

not that.

I T I cast no doubt on Dzhokhar's suffering at the hands of Centauri, the

suffering of his family, the suffering of his people during the occupation.

All of that I a hundred percent believe is true.

They were clearly.

Enslaving the NARKN.

It's clearly part of their culture that they don't even care about it.

you know, all of these things happened, but this specific story.

Just seems a little bit.

To clean for human audiences on what would be a relatable.

Experience based off of earth history.

It is a very convenient story.

You know, I, I wouldn't be surprised.

If it's one of those situations where in his mind.

He has adapted someone else's story for a quick elevator pitch.

Yeah.

Too.

Uh, species about why we need your

help.

a totally

believable

idea.

Yeah.

And even if it's not a hundred percent true, it could be 75% true.

still.

Still check out with everything.

I should have Googled if this was actually true, because it's probably

a known detail at this point.

Oh, surely surely that there's a use

net or a.

Yeah.

Uh,

note somewhere.

Yeah.

I didn't see anything from JMS saying that hit your car, made it up, but that

doesn't mean that it's not somewhere else.

Yeah.

And the, the story itself is, you know, Basically.

His family was serving in a household of Centauri household.

His father spilled hot Jola on the most important lady in the house.

And got murdered for it, which is a kind of story that, Has a

lot of truth

Not just

murder was Hong.

And in a tree.

You know, in the yard.

For everyone to see like, That's very specific imagery.

Relating to slavery in the American south.

Yeah, it's a very parallel story.

And, you know, after that, Dzhokhar became a resistance fighter.

He says he killed his first Centauri the next day, but he

doesn't give us any deets on that.

Um, so that's conveniently.

Less detailed.

Cynthia asked him why NARKN.

And Shakara just goes into that story about colonization, you know?

this is the same thing that happened on your world.

Between yourselves.

And I think.

Sort of conveniently, Cynthia also asks, are you guys losing.

Uh, you, you seem to be just holding things and

Yeah.

six out of the seven last

battles.

Um,

going well, just, just throwing that out there.

Just stirring that pot a little bit.

And you know, it sort of gives Dzhokhar some like fire under

his belly to do something

on camera.

Almost.

We get to do the whole, both sides thing.

And hear from Londo.

Yep.

And he's just like, I don't know occupations a strong word.

I'd call it a tea party.

Um, we were there.

We helped an army, gave him all kinds of technology, just like we gave you humans.

You know is really the same situation.

It was with the humans and you guys didn't suffer.

Yeah.

to just be the Nard, right?

He uses the word civilized, which I have very strong feelings about.

Yeah.

Coming from, you know, the area of Oklahoma that was settled by settled.

by the five civilized tribes.

Uh,

Yeah.

I have strong feelings about that word.

So.

Yeah, his whole deal is.

Despicable in this.

he says that this entire he left because it was too costly to be there.

Which.

If you're being attacked all the time, that does sound costly.

Doesn't it?

Yeah, he does some really cool mental gymnastics in this whole thing.

Especially when he reminds Cynthia that the Narins are the ones who declared war.

After he himself ordered the murder of tens of thousands of thorns.

Right.

But they declared war on.

Us.

You

remember that?

Right?

Right.

surrendered, right.

Just wild cognitive dissonance.

Yup.

that.

We just want peace.

Just

wild.

Yeah, and oh, by the way, we're such good guys.

We sent a battle cruiser to the station are gonna force a siege.

Until

Yeah.

our ships.

Yeah, in CNC.

Uh, jumped point comes up close to the station.

It turns out it's the Centauri and Mondo.

Calls up on the TV and, you know, issues, his threats.

The sitar cruiser is going to blockade us.

We're not going to let anybody

in or out.

Yup.

after this

week, commercial.

So they actually got the FCC pretty upset At this.

Really.

so at the end of the Sycor ad, There is a subliminal message.

Yep.

It's pretty, you know, we want it to be seen.

So it's pretty

obvious, I think.

Or at least it is on our HBO max

TVs.

Yup.

I mean, modern television and modern frame rates help because it probably doubled.

Um, when you, when you digitally upscale.

To 10 ADP.

From the source.

Uh, you double the amount of frames that exist.

So originally.

it a

little longer.

I think it did.

I think a doubled the subliminal messages length to be perfectly honest.

At least a double D from four frames to eight frames, it was visible of the scene.

Okay.

the FCC at the time, defined it's a little messages, two frames or less.

Okay.

Um, so.

Chairman's got very matter of fact, I'm like he clearly had a lawyer.

Look into the rules and just barely broke, like did not break them.

Just barely followed them.

To not get in trouble, but the FCC was pissed.

There was a little bit of commotion about the airing of subliminal message.

That's crazy.

I mean, I think this whole scene is great.

Sycor flavor.

Like.

I mean.

For one thing, this commercial is so, so nineties, like everything in this house

and everything about these people, they're just so nineties, but, We just get this

flavor of what psych war propaganda is.

Like.

And we've kind of had some of that flavor from our telepaths

that have been on the show.

But

this is a little more world-building flavor.

And.

just like the Sycor is everywhere for your convenience.

We're even in the children's hospital.

Like that's just.

Right.

Uh, nightmarish wine delivered with a smile.

Yeah, I love this scene.

So this is the other one that I was thinking of when you were like, just

watch this scene at least this one, too.

got to watch

this

Yeah.

So, uh, we cut back to everyone leaving the council chambers,

and it's just ominous as fuck.

We don't get to see what happened in there.

Like off-camera, it was clear that Sheridan banned them

from the council chambers.

And then later they're all like, you know, after some aggressive

negotiations, we were able to film again in these council chambers when they

go back later.

And so it was clear that they were just, no, get the fuck out.

We're actually doing diplomacy here.

We

You're making this worse.

Yeah.

Please get out.

Sheridan says everybody's still talking.

But.

Dzhokhar.

Comes in and says, now you can see.

This entire

year I met us.

And we're going to do something about it.

Yeah.

Uh, some vague threats.

dun duh.

And of course, this is a great time for Senator contrail

the button with his 2 cents and be like, see, I told you this was

just a big hassle.

And it lets us know torque mins, one of

the good ones too.

We can trust

gross.

Right.

So gross.

Uh,

so back at CNC, Sheridan activates that defense grid that we

got installed in grupos I believe.

Yep.

And issue some threats to this interi worship.

He's pretty certain they're bluffing because the Centauri

kinda have a lot of bark and a little bit less bites sometimes.

He tests their bluff by autopiloting a shuttle out.

They're going to go past and presumably go through the jump gate or something.

So they make it past.

And Terry cruiser does

not

shoot.

Yep.

Everyone.

Cheers.

then it calls them to

talk.

Yup.

so just as soon as they call the talk.

non cruiser comes in and just starts blasting.

Yeah.

The non destroy this entire tree, and then explode, trying to escape.

it's mutual destruction here.

So, uh, I think somebody references hundreds of lives lost.

Cynthia does maybe in her wrap-up here.

You know, then she goes back and she asks all of our main characters.

That we've talked to, you know, is this still worth.

It.

Overwhelmingly the answer is yes,

. Xhafer: Yeah.

Everyone says yes.

In varying degrees.

Dzhokhar doesn't

Yeah, Dzhokhar's a little apprehensive, but he's also

just playing the hand right now.

He's like, I don't know the human's going to join the war.

Wondo tries to frame that Sentara blockade as peaceful protest.

Yeah.

In . His, Dillon extols, the virtues of communities.

Senator contrail is just a Dick.

And Sheridan says yes, because Babylon five needs to create peace, not enforce

peace.

His speech here.

He's the captain now, like a hundred percent.

This speech was the moment where it's all like, this is his station.

He gets it.

cause it's exactly that, like you said, it's about building the peace

and he talks about remembering why we look to the stars in the first place.

it is very much Sheridan's take of the speech that Sinclair gives.

Yeah.

In season one about why we go to the stars.

Yeah, he's channeling his inner Sinclair here.

Um, I really liked when he talked about, you know, Think about your

ancestors and your inheritors.

Like we've got to be using the work of our ancestors.

To build.

The future for our inheritors and just don't feel like people think about that

enough.

My friend.

Yeah.

I loved that.

I loved that.

And then we get Cynthia Turkmen signing off.

Dateline ISN is over.

So on a scale Babel on one to five.

Where you at?

This may be a little strong.

for me, this is a Babylon five

episode.

It's a great episode.

No I'm

with you.

I wrote down four and a half.

Just it's a fantastic episode all around.

Um, it's a such a fun concept.

Yeah, it's such an, like a new and interesting.

Kind of episode that we hadn't seen.

fun premise.

You know, the editing is great because we get some of those moments that it's like,

somebody just said something, but you can see on their face that that's just.

Not, not the reality.

there's double As to the things people say there's a sharp

juxtaposition of perspectives.

And there are some really just memorable, quick vignettes.

We got so much

in this episode.

We did, this is, I mean, and when it aired, this was

something that was unheard of.

I was reading notes about JMS talking about how he wasn't sure Warner brothers

was going to approve the script.

Wow.

Yeah.

Uh, because it was too much like a new show.

And not an episode of Babylon five at all.

And he even, uh, went on records.

Like I don't know of another scifi show that has done this before.

I think this is something wholly

original

that we're doing.

Yeah.

great.

Definitely not in star Trek.

Like, you know, that's the thing we always compare Babel and five to.

Right.

It's it's so natural since they were on at the same time, but

there's no star Trek like this.

No, I'm sure another scifi show has done it.

I don't know what offhand.

Honestly, I think it'd be really interesting to get a star

wars episode like this at some

point.

Um, with all the TV they've been doing lately, it'd be very interesting to see

like, An Imperial remanent news show.

Covering what's going on.

Maybe an and

or.

episode for

you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll see what happens with and-or.

That'd probably be the perfect setting for that.

Oh,

yeah.

Good point.

Good point.

But

Um,

it was great.

Great episode.

This is one of my favorites.

Just memorable as heck.

It builds a lot into it through that framework of new show.

And you get so much world built.

With more background on Narins.

And the, the flavor of the.

Cycore and the.

sponsorship by interplanetary expeditions, just little pieces.

It's just chockfull.

I

love

it.

And so much of it, like none of it was new.

Like nothing is introduced in this episode, except for

Lieutenant Corwin's name.

you know, it's all callbacks, it's all references.

I had to have done that much.

World-building.

In.

Under 50 episodes of TV show, whatever episode number this is.

Yeah, I'd just like to have that much.

World-building Don already.

great.

Fantastic.

Well, what do we have coming

up next time?

Season two episode 15, they're all on her lies.

Sheridan is charged with murdering a prominent men Bari and the

Centauri government wants to replace VIR as Alondo as assistant.

Oh, no, those are two bad

things.

Yep.

I remember the veer bit in this episode.

Yeah.

Cause he's very memorable.

very memorable.

I'm wondering if I'm kidding.

The other part, confused with the season one episode with the funeral.

Or was that even season two?

Was that early Sheridan with them in Bari?

Yeah, I think it was.

Yeah, there's a lot of like human men Bari tension involving.

Attempted murder or actual murder.

In the show so far.

Well, I'm looking forward to that episode, if nothing else, because

we're going to get some quality for

your time.

A hundred percent.

All right.

Well, we'll review that episode next week.

Um, until then we want to say some.

Thank you.

So thank you to Jeremy Siegel for our lovely theme music, you can find

more of his music at Jeremy Siegel.

40 two.bandcamp.com.

And thank you to angry duck time machine on Instagram for our

podcast artwork.

And shoot us an email.

Who are you?

b5@gmail.com or join the discord community that we have where

we'll talk about all this stuff.

Over the next week.

I'm sure.

can send your Getwell wishes to your fair.

See you

next week, internet.