Ryan Margolin is the CEO of Professional Hair Labs, a cosmetic manufacturer who supply private label products and also custom formulate and contract manufacture for companies globally. 

Professional Hair Labs started off as a two-person family business and has now expanded massively with locations in the USA and Ireland and they sell their products to distributors, wholesalers and retailers all over the world. We discussed how they have successfully scaled whilst still remaining a family business, and key things to consider when scaling globally including manufacture, intellectual property rights, and how to make sure that you are not the bottleneck in your own business. 

Ryan has lots of brilliant advice, and there is lots to take away from this episode if you are looking at scaling your business, or selling your product globally.

Listen in to hear Ryan share:

• An introduction to himself and his business (01:20)
• What inspired his family to set up Professional Hair Labs (02:06)
• How Ryan got involved in the business (03:19)
• The move to rolling out their products globally (04:21)
• Selling B2B (05:06)
• Formulating and manufacturing their products (07:56)
• Why they have moved their manufacturing in house as the company has grown (09:23)
• Growing the team from a 2 person business to having over 25 staff (13:29)
• The first positions that they decided to hire for as the business grew (14:24)
• The upsides and downsides of running a family business (15:36)
• Tips for growing and scaling a business (18:51)
• Motivating yourself (21:27)
• The importance of having the right people around you (22:23)
• Ensuring that you do not become the bottleneck in your business as it grows and scales (23:09)
• Advice for selling your product globally, and the importance of getting your IP in (24:13)
• His number one piece of sales advice for product creators (31:02)

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Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

Speaker: 00:00:05

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling

Speaker: 00:00:07

products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

Speaker: 00:00:11

I'm Vicki Weinberg, product creation coach and Amazon expert.

Speaker: 00:00:15

Every week I share friendly, practical advice as well as inspirational

Speaker: 00:00:18

stories from small businesses.

Speaker: 00:00:20

Let's get started.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:23

Since I am speaking to Ryan Margolin from Professional Hair Labs.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:27

Professional hair labs are cosmetics manufacturer who's

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:29

applied private label products and also custom formulating contract

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:33

manufacturer for companies globally.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:35

I had a really interesting conversation with Ryan.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:38

Ryan's company actually started off as a two-person family business, and they've

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:42

now expanded massively with locations in the US and in Ireland and they sell

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:47

their products all over the world.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:49

So they've had massive expansion over the last 30 years, um, while

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:52

still remaining a family business.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:53

I found that really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:55

We cover loads of topics from doing your own manufacturing to intellectual property

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:00

and do things to consider when you are looking to expand and sell globally.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:04

This was a great conversation and I would love now to introduce you to Ryan.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:11

So, hi Ryan.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:12

Thank you so much for being here.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:14

Thanks a lot Vicki.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:15

Uh, looking forward to having a chat.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:17

Hope you're well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:18

Yeah, really well, thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:19

So let's start.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:20

Can you please give an introduction to yourself and your business

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:23

and your products please?

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:25

Yeah, so the company's name is Professional Hair Labs.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:27

We're a cosmetic manufacturer, so we manufacture all types of cosmetics, hair

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:31

care, skincare, you know, predominantly the niche we operated in at the very

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:35

beginning was the non-surgical side of the hair replacement industry.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:38

And over the years we've developed, you know, certain principles and

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:42

methodologies that has carried us through and helped us build a decent

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:45

reputation, which is now kind of standing tall, uh, in relation to our expansion

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:49

plans into a deeper range of cosmetics.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:51

So that's kind of the bird's eye view of the company.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:54

What we do, we have two locations.

Ryan Margolin: 00:01:56

Our principal manufacturing facility is in Wexford in Ireland, and

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:00

we have a warehouse and office facility in Zephyrhills in Florida.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:05

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:05

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:06

So, if it's okay, Ryan, I'd love to start right at the beginning and what inspired

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:09

you to set up professional hair labs?

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:11

Well, it's a family run business.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:13

So the story of the company stems back to, uh, the 1980s.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:18

Uh, my mother was a master hair technician.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:21

My dad was a business owner, entrepreneur, whatever way you

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:23

want to, uh, you know, state it.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:25

And, um, they started a business together in, in New Jersey.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:29

And they opened up their first hair replacement studio

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:32

and they moved to Florida.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:33

And over a period of time through the products that my mother was using as a

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:37

technician, she got chemical poisoning and it forced her into early retirement.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:41

Uh, my dad ended up selling the, the business and focused his efforts on

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:46

creating a product line that was safer for technicians and also safe for

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:50

individuals who wore hair systems.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:51

So that's kind of where the company was started.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:54

Professional Hair Labs came to be in 1994 and for, you know, maybe 15 years.

Ryan Margolin: 00:02:59

Uh, it was a really difficult task to retrain an industry that

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:04

was so set in its ways on new application methods and new process.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:08

And eventually what ended up happening is over a period of time, company grew

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:13

into, you know, a a decent size company, you know, for one person to make a

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:17

living on, but it was quite stagnant.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:19

So, you know, my father got a little bit frustrated and, uh, when the economic

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:23

crash happened in 2008, uh, myself and him had a conversation and he was like, you

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:27

know, why don't you come over to Florida?

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:28

I was living in Ireland at the time.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:30

My mother is Irish.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:31

And let's have a look and see, you know, if there's anything you can contribute.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:35

And initially it was myself and my wife, and we had one daughter at the time.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:38

And we kind of said, no, look, it's, it's not really the move

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:41

we're looking to make at the moment.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:42

But then in hindsight, you know, very quickly we realized,

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:44

look, what do we have to lose?

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:45

So let's go see what the opportunity is and let's see what we can make of it.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:48

So we did that.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:49

I spent the first six months learning about the business.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:51

The operations internally and also, you know, the customers externally.

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:55

And I realized there were some really simple changes that we

Ryan Margolin: 00:03:58

could make to really drive things forward because they had a really

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:01

good product and a product line.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:02

They just didn't have the exposure or what I believed at the time,

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:06

the right marketing or branding to really, uh, make a good impact.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:09

So we stripped the company back in relation to its marketing, its branding.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:13

We built everything back up.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:14

We launched a new product in 2009 to the marketplace with

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:17

some really simple marketing.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:19

And within 18 months it tripled revenue.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:21

So that, that kind of let us know we had a, uh, product, which we have

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:25

now validated as, um, useful in the industry and we started to focus on

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:29

how we can roll that out globally.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:31

So in 2011, we opened up the Irish location and we started to use that

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:36

as the global distribution facility.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:38

Um, because obviously Ireland has great access to Europe and then, um, you

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:42

know, globally it makes more sense to ship from Ireland because of logistics.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:46

So that's how we kind of got to where we are.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:49

And there's been a ton of lessons in between about everything from,

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:52

you know, personal development to learning how to run a business,

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:55

to people development, to product developments, and everything in between.

Ryan Margolin: 00:04:59

So it's been a really interesting, uh, run.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:03

Yeah, it sounds like it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:04

And hopefully we can touch on some of those as we go through.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:06

So just to be clear, Ryan, so just for myself and everyone listening,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:09

so do you predominantly sell b2b?

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:12

Yes, we're a B2B company.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:13

Really, our marketing efforts are kind of more targeted towards B2C, simply

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:18

because at the end of the day, those are the individuals using the products.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:21

But B2B is our main business.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:22

99% of our business we deal predominantly with distributors

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:26

and wholesalers and some retailers.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:28

So that's really interesting then, because you

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:30

mentioned your sort of asking people to buy something that changes the

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:33

sort of practices they're using.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:35

So I guess that's in salons or.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:37

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:38

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:38

So that must have been incredibly challenging actually.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:42

It still is because some of those methods are still

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:45

used and, um, while they work very well, I mean, you can't argue that.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:48

I think where the danger comes is that the products being

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:51

used have chemicals in them.

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:52

So, um, there's a high level of toxicity that, uh, sometimes people are not aware

Ryan Margolin: 00:05:56

of because manufacturers or suppliers of the product wouldn't be very forthcoming

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:00

in putting that out there to the world.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:03

Absolutely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:04

And I'm assuming those chemicals can impact the consumer as well

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:08

as the technician using them?

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:10

Of course, yeah.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:11

No matter how well ventilated the area is, I mean, when you're inhaling those

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:15

products that are being put onto your skin, you know you're ingesting them.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:19

So over time it's naturally going to have an impact, which is you know,

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:21

quite dangerous for the technician, but for the individual wearing a hair

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:24

system or a wig, that product is being placed on their skin, so naturally

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:28

it's going to absorb into their skin.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:29

And over time, that can cause very serious health complications.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:33

So that does seem like such a challenge then, because

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:35

you're having to communicate that message, I guess, to the

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:38

consumer and to the technicians.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:40

Um, yeah.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:41

Again, and that's one of the challenges that, that we face on a daily basis.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:44

I mean, even from a simple fact of, you know, products being purchased online

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:48

that are coming from countries that just don't really adhere to the regulations.

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:53

And the reason they don't adhere to the regulations is because it's very

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:56

difficult to chase them down and hold them accountable, especially

Ryan Margolin: 00:06:59

if they're in another country.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:00

So when you're sitting on the outside looking in on the industry,

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:04

you see the surface level problems.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:06

But when you're operating in the industry on a daily basis, you see how really

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:09

toxic and dangerous the industry can be.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:11

And that's why we've always chosen to operate on the

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:14

safety first side of things.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:15

Because at the end of the day, if we can't provide a solution to the

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:18

marketplace that's safe, and we can put our head on a pillow at night

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:21

knowing we're doing the best we can.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:23

Don't think that's worth doing in the first place.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:26

So.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:27

Absolutely, and it also sounds like someone I e yourselves needs

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:30

to be doing something differently as well.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:33

Yeah, it is.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:34

And look, I mean, at the end of the day, we've always tried to retain

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:37

the core mission of the company to be able to produce safe products

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:40

first, performance comes second.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:42

Fortunately, we have a good enough team in-House of chemists and you

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:45

know, sales and marketing, that when we do put something out, it is

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:49

different than what's in the market.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:50

And we let people know exactly how it's different.

Ryan Margolin: 00:07:53

We don't try to hide anything.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:56

Okay, thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:57

So all of your products are currently formulated in-house and was that

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:00

the case right from the start?

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:02

No, uh, we did formulate our own products from the start, but

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:06

we didn't always manufacture them.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:08

Uh, naturally as you start a business, unless you have a heavy round of

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:11

investment, you're not going to be able to spend 10 million on

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:15

opening a manufacturing facility.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:17

So, uh, what we did is we invested at the very beginning

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:20

to work with very good chemists.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:22

Who were able to help us formulate, we were able to do trials through

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:25

our own network and we were able to find a good contract manufacturer

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:29

that could make the products for us.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:30

Uh, over the years, what we found is that as we were growing and especially

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:34

when we hit a really heavy phase of growth, many contract manufacturers

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:37

struggled to keep up with our needs and we were getting batches that

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:41

may not be consistent or there was different, you know, discrepancies in

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:44

the formula that we could see just by looking at it and smelling the product.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:48

So naturally, I think as we grew the process for us was

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:51

To start making the products.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:53

And that's what kind of landed us in the position we are today.

Ryan Margolin: 00:08:56

We've invested literally everything, for the most part that we've made over the

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:00

last decade back into the operations to take our, you know, facilities from, you

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:05

know, let's say 10 years ago when we were operating in a 1500, 2000 square foot

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:09

facility, to where now we're operating close to a hundred thousand square feet.

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:13

So it's, it's been a really, uh, fast paced project, but if we don't do it

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:19

this way, we're going to be wasting time and there's a lot more work to do.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:23

That's interesting.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:24

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:25

I think you might be one of the first people I've spoken to who's moved

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:28

their manufacturing in in-house.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:30

Can you talk us through some of the advantages and disadvantages

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:33

of that decision please?

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:35

Yeah, so I think one of the key disadvantages was the

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:39

lack of knowledge of what it actually takes to become or to make that change

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:44

from someone who relies on contract manufacturing to someone who manufactures.

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:48

So there was a lot of rules and regulations that we were

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:50

not aware of at the beginning.

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:52

And as we went down the road of building our processes, we realized

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:55

we needed certain certifications.

Ryan Margolin: 00:09:57

Uh, we needed to adhere to certain guidelines that we weren't adhering to

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:00

before because they weren't relevant.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:02

So that was one of the disadvantages that required an awful lot of investment

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:05

into consultants who could help us put those processes in place and make

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:08

sure that we understood them and we were doing it right from the get go.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:11

Uh, secondly, uh, one of the disadvantages was the investment that was required.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:16

I mean, at this point now we're well into eight figures of

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:19

investment to get our facilities.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:21

To the point of where they're at right now over the years, and I think

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:24

unless you are building a brand that is continually on a high trajectory of

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:29

growth, it's going to be very difficult to maintain that level of investment,

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:32

and more importantly, maintain the level of sales to maintain the operations.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:37

One of the pros is that we have now our eyes on everything.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:41

We know every batch that's made is correctly tested, uh, stability wise

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:46

and, you know, put into our climate chambers to make sure that regardless

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:49

of wherever in the world that it goes to, it will be okay and remain stable.

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:53

One of the other benefits is that we are now able to produce and, you know, kind

Ryan Margolin: 00:10:57

of push the innovative boundaries of cosmetics that we weren't able to before.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:01

So we're able to create more products now than we ever have.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:03

I mean, our catalogue this year alone is going to be expanding by about 80.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:07

So that's 80 different products.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:09

Any company anywhere in the world can come to us and say, Hey, I like this product.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:13

We can then get that product into their hand off the shelf within a

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:16

few weeks, rather than taking 12 to 16 weeks, which is kind of what a

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:20

standard custom formula project entails.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:23

So that's one of the pros.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:24

Well you know, the speed of entry is, has increased dramatically for us, and we're

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:28

seeing that now in the new relationships that we're developing on a weekly.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:32

Uh, so those are some of the things that we found over the last,

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:35

you know, couple of years that have been really evident to us.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:38

That's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:38

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:39

And I guess it also makes you a bit more flexible in terms of manufacturing, in

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:42

terms of how many, and you know, what you're actually producing at one time.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:46

So you told us the scale, the size of your facility, but I'll be really

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:50

honest, I'm not great at kind of working out what that means in practice.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:53

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:53

But are you able to be manufacturing a number of lines at once?

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:57

Absolutely.

Ryan Margolin: 00:11:58

So, you know, right now, at the moment, so we only last month, you know, we've

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:03

had to invest another half million euro into the expansion of new equipment to,

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:07

you know, facilitate the manufacturing needs and, and the production capacities.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:10

So, um, and again, we're moving into lines that we hadn't made before.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:14

So when you look at a hundred thousand square feet in scale,

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:17

I mean, there's a huge jump.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:18

I mean, we have, where we used to be doing our filling and mixing in one room,

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:22

you know, now we have individual parts of the building that everything is done.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:26

We have our lab, we have our production area, we have our fulfillment area, we

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:30

have our manufacturing facility right next door to it, we have the bottling room.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:33

So everything has been split up into a flow that makes sense that, you know,

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:37

once it's completed, moves into the warehouse for storage and ultimately

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:41

into a container where it gets shipped.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:43

So yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:44

That's brilliant, thank you very much for that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:46

It's hard for me to visualize these things, and it's brilliant that

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:49

you're having the demand as well, that you know, to continue to grow.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:53

Yeah.

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:53

And you know, look, I, the whole company was kind of based on the

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:56

demand that we created in the industry, because we were the first people to

Ryan Margolin: 00:12:59

do a water-based non-toxic solution for wearing wigs and hair systems.

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:03

But now what's happening is that, you know, we're seeing the

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:06

demand for other products in the marketplace where, uh, performance

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:09

may be a little bit compromised.

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:11

And we're filling that hole, you know, look, it's, it's just, it's a really

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:14

interesting journey because we're experimenting with things that, you

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:17

know, realistically we didn't even know existed, you know, 24 months ago.

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:21

So it's a, it's always a learning curve and fortunately for us, we have,

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:24

uh, really experienced people on the team who are gutting that path for us.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:29

So how has your team grown, if you don't mind me asking?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:31

So you mentioned that initially it was your parents who set up the business.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:35

So how has it grown over the last, what are we talking now for almost 30 years?

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:39

Yeah, so for 15 of those years, or 17 of those

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:43

years, it was only two people.

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:45

And then when we started to hit some growth, uh, back in 2009, it

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:49

then quickly transitioned from, you know, three people to six people to

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:53

nine people to 10 people where we have 27 people, uh, on the team now.

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:57

And that's split between both locations.

Ryan Margolin: 00:13:59

I think what we've done we're, we're, we're a firm believer in lean systems.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:03

So we like to run as optimally as possible.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:05

So you know, we're able to achieve an awful lot comfortably with quite

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:10

a small team because we rely on a high level of automation and which is

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:14

where the investment comes in as well.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:15

We believe that, you know, it's not about what you can save in one year, it's about

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:19

what you can save over a decade and how that's going to impact your growth plans.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:24

Brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:25

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:25

And in terms of when you started growing your team, I'm just curious,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:28

what were some of the first roles that you decided to bring in-house?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:31

Because I'm assuming when even when it was a two or three people

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:33

company, you were still working with external chemist manufacturers.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:36

Yep.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:36

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:36

What was the first role where you went?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:38

Actually, we need someone actually on the team.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:41

I think from a strategic perspective, it was the most important

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:44

or the key hire for us, say in our Irish facility, was an operations manager.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:48

Someone who could be trained in the day-to-day operations of the

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:51

company and knew how they run.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:52

So I could become hands off and start to lead.

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:55

The more, you know, the strategic direction of the company we hired

Ryan Margolin: 00:14:59

tactically, my apologies, I got those mixed up there, uh, on the US side,

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:02

it was more about having a clear separation between the warehouse

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:05

and and the office operations, because they work together very well.

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:09

But when you're moving the volumes that we do, especially in the US, you need people

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:12

with sole responsibility of each of those.

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:14

So it was a warehouse operator or a warehouse manager and an operations

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:18

manager for office operations as well.

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:20

So they were the three key hires for us to really set the foundations where

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:24

myself and my two brothers who are also, uh, involved in the company and owners

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:28

of the company now, that they were the key hires to allow us to set the right

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:31

foundations to where we could focus on the strategic direction of the company.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:35

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:36

And so I know you, you know, you are very much a family business.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:39

Tell us what are some of the positives of, you know, running a

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:43

business with your family and what can some of the challenges be?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:45

Because I'm sure there are challenges from time to time.

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:48

There's plenty of them every day.

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:49

But the truth of the matter is, is that I wouldn't have it any other way because

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:52

I feel when you're running a, a family business, and this all really depends

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:55

on the personalities, fortunately for us, we're quite empathetic people.

Ryan Margolin: 00:15:58

And I think that has been key to us in maintaining, you know, continual

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:02

movement forward in times where, you know, there might be difference of opinions.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:05

Because naturally there always is.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:07

So empathy has been a huge part in that.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:09

And because we have that, it has made a lot of the situations that

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:13

might be a little bit uncomfortable or not as, uh, beneficial.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:16

It's been easier to get through those because you're able to place yourself

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:19

in the shoes of the other person.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:20

The other key thing is that regardless of, you know, whatever way things go,

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:23

you'll always have each other's back.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:25

There's a loyalty there that I don't think is very easy to break.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:28

So they've been some positives, you know,.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:30

Look on the downside is that, well it's actually not really a downside.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:33

It depends on how you look at it.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:35

Uh, look, I've been in situ.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:36

Over the last, you know, say 15, 20 years, where there's been a huge

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:40

discrepancy in the workload that has been done on one side versus the other.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:45

And I think sometimes that can create conflict, but I think

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:48

especially in a family business, I think it swings and roundabouts.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:50

There's times where there's heavier workloads on one person's plate than

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:53

there is in the other, but that naturally turns, and I do think momentum comes

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:57

from a place of equality as well.

Ryan Margolin: 00:16:59

So, um, that to me, it depends on how you look at it.

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:02

That could be one of the downsides is that just accepting the fact

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:05

that, you know, you can do much more from a place of equality than you

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:09

can from fighting over who's going to get more out of certain things.

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:12

And I think that has been one of the keys to our, uh, quick growth is

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:16

that, look, we're in this together, we're in this for the same goal.

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:19

And you know, what better way to have it than just from a place of equality

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:22

so we can all achieve, you know, what we set out to achieve because we have

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:27

personal goals that we have for ourselves.

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:28

And when you're not worrying about, you know, is there a breakdown of

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:32

communication or is there an underlying issue because one person is getting

Ryan Margolin: 00:17:36

more than the other, I, I just think it makes the job much easier.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:40

That makes total sense.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:41

Because I think you're right, everything is swings and roundabouts, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:44

And sometimes, you know, things can't be equal all of the time.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:47

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:47

I'm kind of comparing it to, I have two kids and they're different ages and

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:50

you know, it's a constant conversation about things won't always be the same

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:54

for each of you all of the time, you know, in terms of all kinds of stuff.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:57

It's just the way of the world.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:59

But I think it's really great to have that outlet, because I can

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:01

imagine that it could be challenging with different personalities.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:05

It could be kind of a challenging situation.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:08

But that comes down to personal development,

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:09

I think, and leadership.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:11

If you have strong skills that you've developed over the years, or

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:13

maybe there's some of them you have naturally, I think there's not a

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:16

single problem that can't be solved.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:17

Now, some are harder than others, but ultimately, if you equip yourself

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:21

with the tools or you know, pay attention to the experiences that

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:24

your job or your life is throwing at you, I think that's half the battle.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:28

Yeah, that makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:29

And I'm assuming as well that yourself and your brothers all have

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:31

very clearly defined roles as well.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:33

We do, yeah.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:34

So my position would be CEO , my brother Daryl, he would have

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:38

president, and then my brother David, is the chief operating officer.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:40

So he would make sure that, you know, in the US side, operations are running as is.

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:44

And then, you know, from a sales and marketing perspective, you know, myself

Ryan Margolin: 00:18:48

and Daryl would liaise on that direct.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:51

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:52

And let's talk a little bit about growing particularly, because obviously

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:54

you started as a family business, there were two people at the outset.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:57

What do you think are some of the best ways to grow and particularly scale a

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:00

family business and, and what are some of the impacts of that that you've seen?

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:04

Yeah, so look, there's a lot of different ways that

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:07

conversation can go, but I think the first thing that actually has to be

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:11

done overall is you have to approach any type of growth in a business

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:16

from a place of personal development.

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:18

Because at the end of the day, if you are not in the position, or

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:21

you're not becoming the person that's required to run the company or to

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:24

make things move forward, you're always going to be the bottleneck.

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:27

And what I've found is that, you know, personal development is the

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:31

really kind of subjective topic.

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:32

You know, it means a lot of things.

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:34

Lot of different people.

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:35

For me, I've learned, you know, for myself personally, it's come down to really

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:39

five key things that, that I've learned over the last 10 years, and those things

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:43

may not be the same things that would help another person get to where they're

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:46

going, but I think they're foundational insights that will help someone's see

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:50

maybe some of the key things they at least need to explore and look at, you

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:53

know, to help them on their journey.

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:55

I remember, you know, say five, six years ago, a really simple method

Ryan Margolin: 00:19:59

was taught to me of where to start.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:00

And that is to start with a simple time study.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:03

And that time study just basically requires two weeks of your time and you

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:07

have, uh, sheets in front of you where you write down what you do every 15 minutes

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:11

and at the end of those two weeks, you break them up into three categories.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:15

There's, uh, strategic, there's tactical, and there's self-care.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:18

And then basically when you add all those hours up and what bracket they

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:21

fall into, you get a percentage over two weeks, which you're spending,

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:24

you know, which you're spending on.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:25

And like, if you're in a position of leading a company and you're spending

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:29

more than half of your time in a tactical position, you need to make

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:32

that list from that sheet that you drafted of all the tactical things

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:36

that you're doing, and you need to offload them to somebody because if you

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:38

continually stay in a tactical position, majority of the time, you're going to

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:42

become the bottleneck in your company.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:44

And I think that was a huge thing for me was realizing that, look, when things

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:47

get really tactically hard, I need to start making a list and I need to start

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:51

offloading responsibility because you need to stay in a strategic place in

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:55

order to guide the direction and even the creative direction of the company.

Ryan Margolin: 00:20:58

Because at the end of the day, the culture and the mission will only stay as intact

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:02

as the leaders are in tune, you know, so that was vitally important for me.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:07

It was a stark realization from the personal development side of things,

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:10

you realize that in business, or maybe not even in business, just

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:14

in general in life, that you know, no one is coming to save you.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:17

You know, this is all you and you have to do this on your own.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:20

And especially when you're starting a company, there's going to be

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:23

a lot of long nights, you know, where, you know, sometimes you're

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:25

wondering, is it all worth it?

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:27

Um, but you have to maintain that belief in yourself because you know, if there's

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:30

going to be no one there to tell you you're doing a good job, there's going to

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:32

be no one there to pat you on the back.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:34

There's going to be no awards or recognition.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:36

And you need to learn how to be your, your own inspiration.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:39

Um, when those times get tough and there's going to be a lot of them.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:43

You know, that was a big realization for me because you know, I remember

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:45

at the very beginning of that journey, um, when I was very passionate about

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:48

something, I couldn't understand why people weren't as passionate.

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:51

But you have to realize that no one really cares, uh, until really you've

Ryan Margolin: 00:21:55

achieved a certain level of success that they can start to admire or relate

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:00

to, you know, or they want to achieve.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:01

So that was a big thing for me.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:03

There's a lot of distractions also in the personal development.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:06

And I think it's vitally important that you learn how to, you know,

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:09

manage your focus and not your time.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:10

You know, when you have a task in front of you and you realize that your focus is

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:14

more important than the time that you have available, you learn to lock in and you

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:18

realize that time is not really relevant at that point because you're solely

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:21

focused on, you know, the end result.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:23

Your circle of people is another thing.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:25

Uh, that, that's one of the big things I'm a believer in.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:27

You know, over the years, you know, some of the circles I've been

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:29

involved in, uh, have benefited me very well and helped me, and then

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:32

others have been quite bad for me.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:34

And I don't think it's a bad thing, you know, it's a necessity.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:37

You know, as you start to develop as a person, you need to surround

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:39

yourself with the right people who are there to help you become better

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:42

and not settle for anything less than the best that they know you could be.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:46

And, and people who hold you accountable as well, whether it's a, you know, a

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:49

business associate, a partner, you know, or a wife or any other person that you

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:52

spend a lot of time around, you know?

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:54

Uh, so those key things.

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:55

I mean, there's a few other things that, you know, naturally I think

Ryan Margolin: 00:22:58

every single person on this planet experiences, but for me, those, those

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:02

were three key things on the development side that really helped me break things

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:05

down to a foundational level and grow.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:08

That's really useful.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:09

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:09

And I really liked what you said about the time tracking task as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:12

I think that's a brilliant place to start because I think you can easily, I did this

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:16

periodically get to a point in my business where I think, why am I doing this?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:19

Why am I the one doing this?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:20

Yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:21

And I think that's good when you get to the point where you're like, okay, these

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:24

are things I need to off load, because I think there can be a tendency to just

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:27

take on, take on, take on until actually a good chunk of what you're doing might

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:32

actually not be the best use of your time.

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:34

Exactly.

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:34

And then you become the bottleneck and the growth of your business.

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:37

And I think it's the hardest thing for someone who's growing a business or

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:40

starting a business to do is let go.

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:42

And I think it's one of the things that should be learned as quickly as

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:46

possible, that it is okay to let go as long as you take the time to create

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:50

the processes to teach somebody.

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:51

Because once those processes are in.

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:53

Unless there's a shift in your sales flow or your operations flow, there's going

Ryan Margolin: 00:23:58

to be no need to go back and change them.

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:00

So as long as you spend that, let's say five, six hours developing those

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:04

documents, it's done and you can let go and you can move on and they can,

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:08

you know, somebody else can train.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:11

That's really good advice.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:12

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:13

So while we're talking about scaling Ryan, I know that in your company

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:16

you went from selling nationally to selling internationally.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:18

Can we talk a little bit about what that means and some of the things

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:21

you might need to consider for anyone listening, thinking they'd

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:24

like to go down a similar route?

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:26

Yeah, so we didn't really think about any of those things when

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:29

we started to scale internationally.

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:31

I think, you know, unfortunately for ourselves, we didn't have the right people

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:36

around us at the time to really guide us on how to strategically expand our brand.

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:40

But we just learned from making mistakes.

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:42

So what that actually means is that when, when you look at another country,

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:46

obviously you know, you digitally, you want to look at, you know, the

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:49

different kind of search results online.

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:51

What's going on.

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:52

You want to look around social media, see if you can find different search

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:55

terms for, you know, the products that you offer, or planning on creating

Ryan Margolin: 00:24:58

an offering and seeing what you know the feedback is, or if there's any

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:02

need for those products globally.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:03

Then you really want to start looking at what the rules and regulations of

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:06

the countries are, because naturally it's the one thing that's overlooked.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:10

It's like, okay, I have this product.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:12

Let's say if you have a physical product, and let's say you want to

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:14

use amazon's fulfillment facilities to store them and ship them.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:18

You know, realistically, what's going to happen at that point of entry

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:21

before they get to Amazon's warehouse.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:23

You know, do you have the right paperwork?

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:24

Are the products compliant?

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:26

Do they have the right information on the labels, on the boxes?

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:29

Uh, all of those things are boxes that you need to tick before you

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:33

consider trading internationally.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:34

And most importantly, get your IP in.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:37

Because if you have a product that's worth, uh, copying or um, counterfeiting,

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:42

it will 100% be copied or counterfeited.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:45

And if you don't have the right protection in place, it's going to cost

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:48

a lot of money to defend your position.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:50

And if the product itself is not somewhat profitable, your company's

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:54

going to get destroyed and your brand is going to be cannibalized.

Ryan Margolin: 00:25:57

Um, you know, we, we made some really bad mistakes at the beginning.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:00

We had some not great guidance from some of our legal team that we used to

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:04

work with, and they didn't advise us on expanding our IP rights globally, and we

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:09

got caught and it cost us a lot of money and it's still ongoing, but there's a

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:13

high level of counterfeits in our, of our brand, you know, all over the world now.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:16

And this is something we're fighting on a daily basis because it kind of challenges

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:21

the kind of foundations on which the company was built, which was safety.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:23

You know, you've got cosmetic products that are being put into packaging that's

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:27

identical to ours, or identical labels, and the product inside it is really poor.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:32

And in some cases dangerous.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:34

So, yeah, look, those are the things that I would advise anyone starting a business

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:38

or, or looking to expand globally is that make sure you have your IP in line.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:42

Make sure you're reviewing the regulations about importing that product into the

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:46

country and selling in that country.

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:48

Does it need a different language on the labels?

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:50

Does it need, you know, different set of instructions?

Ryan Margolin: 00:26:52

All of those things are, are vitally important.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:55

Thank you so much for that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:57

And speaking about IP and counterfeit, I was really surprised by what,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:00

what you said then about how hard it seems to be to fight this, even

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:04

if you do have everything in place.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:06

Absolutely.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:07

Um, because different countries have different rules and sometimes the

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:12

investment to fight it outweighs, you know, the remuneration

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:14

you're going to get if you win.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:16

So you have to really find other strategic ways to combat this.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:20

So, for example, um, when I'll take, you know, maybe a country.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:25

You know, say a few years ago, uh, we realized that our product was being

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:28

counterfeited in the Philippines.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:29

Um, it wasn't a country we had planned on expanding into.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:32

It was rife in the country.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:34

The brand was very popular, but it was full of counterfeit.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:37

So we were seeing a lot of complaints coming out.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:39

We were getting emails like, your product is burning me,

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:41

or your product is doing this.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:43

It's not performing.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:44

And we would get these photos of these bottles and be

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:47

like, that's not our product.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:48

So we were like, okay, we can go down the road of fighting this and

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:51

spending, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know,

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:53

enforcing our IP rights in that country.

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:56

But what if we tried it a little differently?

Ryan Margolin: 00:27:58

So we actually took the money that we were going to invest in fighting it

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:03

legally, and we invested it in creating technology for our brand that would

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:07

allow us to put codes on our packaging that were not able to be replicated.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:11

And if somebody tried to replicate them, a customer would be able to report it

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:15

directly from our app, that they'd be able to send us the details of where they

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:18

bought it, the pictures of the bottle.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:20

And, uh, their location and what that's enabled us to do now, it's enabled us

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:23

to strategically approach these places and be like, hey, look, here's the deal.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:26

You know, here's a complaint.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:28

We know that the product you're selling is not genuine.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:30

Um, we are the manufacturers and the owners of this brand.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:33

Uh, we love the opportunity to do business with you.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:35

So what we actually did was we turned a negative into a positive and we

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:39

said, look, we started a counterfeit swap program where it was like, uh,

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:42

in certain countries if we caught, you know, people selling counter, Um,

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:45

we would offer them the opportunity to swap out, uh, their fake products

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:48

for legitimate products as long as they continue to do business with us.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:51

And that's worked pretty well and it's saved us a lot of money.

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:54

And we were able to add some strategic value to our company by

Ryan Margolin: 00:28:57

creating a software that's helped us protect our brand and actually

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:01

give consumers very clear indication as to whether the product they have

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:04

in their hand is legitimate or not.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:07

That's really smart.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:08

I really like that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:09

And I'm assuming that some of the places selling these products had

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:12

no idea they were counterfeit.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:13

No.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:14

You'll find a lot of the brick and mortar stores that are just selling the product

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:17

and they're buying it from sales reps.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:19

They don't have any idea.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:20

But then there are some who know full well what they're doing.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:22

And it's very easy to tell the difference now with the systems

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:25

we have in place internally.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:27

So it's taken us a long time to navigate those waters and, but we've learned an

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:31

awful lot and we know it's a part of the industry that will never go away.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:35

And for our company it will never fully go away.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:37

But if we're doing what we can to make sure that it makes it next year impossible

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:41

to replicate the brand and letting people know that this is exactly what they should

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:44

expect when buying one of our products, I think it's going to be very difficult

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:48

for counterfeiters to get away with it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:50

That's really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:51

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:52

And also, I'm just wondering, do you protect your brand or do you also

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:56

protect your formulations aswell?

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:58

We do.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:59

Yeah.

Ryan Margolin: 00:29:59

So for the products that we have in our line, they would be general

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:02

formulations that we can, you know, kind of adjust according to customer's needs.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:06

There's no real need to patent that technology because

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:09

it's not really innovative.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:10

But for some of the products that we work on that do have innovative

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:13

technology in them, yes, we absolutely do.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:15

So there's, you know, trademarks, copyright design, right?

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:18

And all of those type of IP protection things that we do.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:21

But then on the other side, you have your patents and those would

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:24

fall into the lines of formulations.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:26

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:27

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:27

And as you've said, so I guess it would just depend on exactly

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:30

what you were selling as to what kind of protection you need.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:32

So it sounds like if anyone's wondering what they need, the best thing is

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:36

to go and get some sensible advice.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:38

Absolutely.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:38

And one of the key things that I always say is that for me, I know

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:41

the journey we had in finding good people for that purpose.

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:44

So if anyone that's listening that needs some advice on that or needs

Ryan Margolin: 00:30:48

someone to contact, I'd be more than happy to point them in the right direct.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:52

That's a really kind offer Ryan, thank you so much.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:55

Um, I have one final question before we finish.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:57

It's a question I ask everyone.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:58

Obviously you shared a lot already, but this might be a tough one.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:02

What would your number one piece of advice be for other product businesses?

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:07

So for product businesses, I would say just make

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:10

sure that above everything else you focus on the consistency of quality.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:15

Because you know what, you're only really as good as your last sale.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:18

If you have a dedicated, loyal customer that's been ordering, you know from

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:21

you for years, and you find that, you know, they get a couple of bad orders.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:25

They're not coming back to you, they're going to find a competitor to go to.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:28

So from a product per, from a physical perspective, there's that.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:32

I think from a personal perspective, one of the last pieces of advice I would

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:36

say is that, you know, look throughout your time of growing a business, no

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:39

matter how big or small you know, the company is or gets, I think realizing

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:43

that, you know, you need to control, you know, the level of fear that you're

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:46

going to have, it's going to be vitally important because there's going to be

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:49

aspects of your journey that push you into really uncomfortable situations.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:53

But you have to welcome it.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:54

You have to welcome it as an opportunity to learn.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:56

I often talk about fire as an analogy.

Ryan Margolin: 00:31:59

I mean, fire has the ability to do one of two things.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:01

It, it can either burn everything down around you or you can control

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:04

it and it can keep you warm.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:05

You know, I think it's a mindset thing that you really need to work

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:08

on in order to make sure that you're always in a right frame of mind to

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:12

deal with whatever's thrown at you.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:14

Because you have to remember, mindset is only a tool.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:16

It gives you the ability to do something.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:18

It gives you the ability to look at things in a certain way.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:20

Ultimately you have to use that tool then to fix the problem or to

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:24

move forward and make the changes.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:26

So that on the personal side, that's my last piece of

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:28

advice that I think I'll give.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:30

No, that's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:31

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:31

And thank you so much for everything you shared.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:33

It's been great to talk to, to you.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:35

No, thanks a lot.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:36

Yeah, I appreciate it.

Ryan Margolin: 00:32:36

It was good to chat.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:39

Thank you so much for listening right

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:41

to the end of this episode.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:42

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:45

on my website, vicki weinberg.com.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:48

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:51

and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.