Shownotes
Introducing the latest episode of Common Sense Ohio! Join hosts Steve Palmer and Brett Johnson as they dive into a candid conversation with Marine veteran George Pardos. From George's inspiring journey in the Marine Corps to his creation of the Veteran Radio Syndicate, this episode unpacks the challenges and triumphs of veterans in today's world.
Explore the importance of community support, the impact of combat experiences, and the evolving needs of aging veterans. Gain valuable insights into mental health, therapy measures, and the role of the VA. Hear firsthand accounts of resilience, brotherhood, and the unwavering spirit of those who have served.
Top Takeaways from the episode
1. The importance of creating a supportive community for veterans to share their experiences and seek help is emphasized. Organizations like the Veteran Radio Syndicate aim to provide a platform for veterans to connect and find camaraderie.
2. There is a significant need to address the mental health and emotional well-being of veterans, especially in creating safe spaces where they can discuss their concerns and seek support for issues such as PTSD, alcoholism, and neurological disorders.
3. The episode explores the impact of combat experiences on veterans' lives, highlighting the challenges they face in transitioning back to civilian life and the importance of providing therapy measures and support to meet their diverse needs
4. It underscores the significance of creating an organic and relatable support structure for veterans, focusing on local and community-based support rather than solely relying on government assistance.
5. Taking care of aging veterans' health needs, such as addressing hearing loss and physical ailments, is a vital aspect that requires attention and support.
6. The podcast encourages the importance of acknowledging and showing gratitude to veterans, highlighting the often overlooked or underserved needs of certain veteran groups.
7. The podcast discusses the challenges of engaging with the VA and offers different perspectives on how to effectively provide care for veterans, including a focus on local support, accountability, and therapy measures.
8. Providing alternatives for veterans to engage in meaningful activities, such as roundtable therapy and non-combat-related discussions, is crucial in fostering mental well-being and creating a sense of community.
9. The episode highlights the unique training and bonding experiences of Marine Corps veterans, shedding light on the intense brotherhood and loyalty formed during combat, as well as the importance of interchangeable skills and adaptability in military training.
10. It addresses the need for a shift in societal attitudes towards supporting vulnerable populations, emphasizing the importance of men having a safe space to be vulnerable and the potential consequences of not having this support.
"Whatever that is, if you get any individual 2 therapy measures, they have about a 90% success rate, And that's what we try to focus on."
George Pardos on Veteran Support Programs
Memorable Moments
09:30 Roommate, coach at Ohio State, Russ Helixson, Butch Keyes, wrestling, great guy.
17:56 2nd battalion, 8th Marines lost 140 men.
20:51 Marine Corps instills a strong bond and identity.
31:57 Creating a platform for veterans with dual goals.
36:47 Veterans need a connection to heal from trauma.
44:37 VA is good at healthcare but lacks info sharing.
48:26 VA has improved suicide prevention efforts.
57:09 Challenges in treating aging veterans with PTSD.
59:44 Veterans court's effectiveness for veterans with issues.
01:07:15 Non-veterans can support struggling friends effectively.
01:09:03 Men find it hard to express emotions.
01:15:50 Understanding and appreciation for deployed troops.
George Pardos decided to join the Marine Corps and it turned out to be the right choice for him. During his time in the Marines, he had the privilege of being coached by a trailblazer named Lloyd Kieser, who was the first African American medalist in the United States and a Marine Corps captain. Kieser's success at the 1976 Montreal Olympics, where he won a silver medal in wrestling, inspired Pardos and solidified his belief in the power of hard work and dedication. This experience had a lasting impact on Pardos and continues to motivate him to this day.
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson, My Podcast Guy®, is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2026 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
Alright. We're back. 2 2 24 Common Sense Ohio. That's 2 2 24. The number sort of I don't know. They tickle me somehow. Anyway, Common Sense Ohio coming at you week in week out from Ohio right from the middle, as we like to say. Brought to you, Of course, by Harper Plus Accounting, my accountant could be yours.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, as Brett's pointing to his Harper Plus, because I think I'm a coffee mug, tumbler. I don't know what the hell that is. But, anyway, it's a it's a fan
Brett Johnson [:Probably an espresso thing, which never has touched espresso.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right. But harbor plus accounting, And, you know, it is that time. Yeah. I'd be very to try to get ahold of your accountant right now or you better get ahold of your accountant now because in about 3 weeks, you won't be able to get ahold of your accountant, but not at Harper Plus where they've got a team that Helps me plan all year long even in their busiest season. I will give them a little bit of slack, of course, in March April because they are really, really busy. But, Harper Plus Accounting bring in Common Sense Ohio to you week in and week out. And if you wanna check out the old episodes, you go to common sense ohio show.com, where you can catch the catalog of old episodes.
Steve Palmer [:We're on video now, so you can check us out on Facebook, YouTube, wherever they have videos. I'd be above my pay grade. We've got the people here fixing that up. Norm, typically here, not. I guess he's got a mouthful of gauze from a dentist visit. But filling a seat, we have a guest. We have, George Pardos. And if you don't know George Parto, I didn't until he called me, but he he has something really, really cool in town.
Steve Palmer [:And anybody who's listened to the backlog of shows knows that we sort of Have a special place for the veterans organizations and the veterans who have served the country, ironically, because I never did. And maybe that's my own But if I sometimes I tell my in myself, like, if I have one regret, I didn't go serve back when I was in high or right out of high school or right out of college. And I I I don't know if I have guilt for that, but it's one of those things that I I sort of think, yeah, that that would have been a good thing for me.
Brett Johnson [:I think every 18 year old boy thinks about it. And and, you know It goes through their head. It does. Because, hey, in high school, you got the recruiters coming in, talking to you. It's it's an option. Yep. It just comes down to what you wanna do with your life. And those that serve, thank god they did
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And do.
Steve Palmer [:And and my dad used to say, you know, life was the our country was better when everybody had to serve. The military was better, and the population was better, and everybody was a little bit mature and a little bit more capable. And, you know, the merits of that, I don't need we don't need to debate it here. But his idea was, you know, if you're going to college, do it 3 years after, and you're a little bit more mature, so you don't go to college just to get drunk for 4 years. You actually have a goal. And, I'm proud to say my son's plan right now is to go into the military, and then do something afterwards. But, Anyway, George, welcome to the show. 1st time here at channel 511 or studio c at channel 511.
Steve Palmer [:Why don't we just start to introduce yourself, man?
George Pardos [:Yeah. Alright. My name is George Pardos. So I'm a marine veteran and and 12 year army veteran as well. So I did the same thing. I got out of high school, went to the Marine Corps,
Steve Palmer [:and then There we go. Now he's on the mic, guys.
George Pardos [:When the Marine Corps then got out of the Marine Corps, went to Ohio State, graduated from Ohio State. So, you know, my dad was a machinist, So I don't wanna have the burden of him having to pay for my school. So at the time, the Marine Corps had a nice you know, Whatever you wanna call it, a nice package for well, the military did in the eighties. They had the v the GI Bill. They had veteran's assistance. So Go to the marine corps.
Steve Palmer [:I I sense I sense a I sense a little bit of ethnicity. Greek?
George Pardos [:Yeah. A little bit. You know, it's Irish, actually.
Steve Palmer [:Irish?
George Pardos [:No. I'm Greek. I mean, we
Steve Palmer [:Well, they're they're the Greek Irish. There's there's there's anyway, there's a history there that's interesting, the the Black Irish.
George Pardos [:So, You know, my dad you know, I was born in Greece and came over here when I was young, and so I didn't wanna Go to some college. I saw that some of the my counterparts would go to college and be drunk at Papa Joe's. And so If you'd ever been on campus, we Ohio State campus you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Ohio State campus. We owned our family had the Athenian village Dollar euros that is right across the street from
Steve Palmer [:had some of my dollars over the years.
George Pardos [:Yeah. So, you know, we had seen how they grew up, and I was like, yeah, I don't know that I'm ready. 18, I was like, you know, my so I enlisted in Marine Corps 17, you know, got into the late entry program, and then, you know, I graduated, June 4th. And June 11th, I was in boot camp at Parris Island. Wow. So and my dad, you know
Steve Palmer [:what year are we talking? 1984. 84. So you got a few years on me.
George Pardos [:So my dad, when he signed off, it was it was the funniest thing ever. My dad, You know, in his you know, he used the colloquialism, but, when you signed off at 17, you had to get your parents' permission. So my dad said, I I need you to make 2 promises. 1, I don't want you to get any tattoos like those damn street urchins, which is a you know? And number 2, I don't want you to get dead.
Steve Palmer [:So no tattoos and don't die. I mean, look. I mean, I can understand the order of that, at least. I would prefer.
George Pardos [:And I was like
Steve Palmer [:You would think that maybe the don't get dead first.
George Pardos [:Well, you know, the it it was the tattoos. You you know, that was where and so, you know, my dad grew up in the air, so I joined the Marine Corps. You know, I and in 87, 88, I was I was good enough to wrestle for the marine corps. I was on the all marine wrestling team, And that is what got me to Ohio State.
Steve Palmer [:And So you you grew up in central Ohio, Columbus?
George Pardos [:Yeah. I went I went to school in at Westland. Okay. Well okay. And, you know, it was, you know, just a little I don't know if you guys are familiar with it. It's just a little squad at Galloway. Yep. Mixed, You know, it was a mixed background.
George Pardos [:Most of it was, you know, farm kids. Used to work at Darby Dan Farms, Hoffman Farms out there. So And got out, stayed in the reserves, stayed in the National Guard, and served until 2000. And so I had a chance to do some really wonderful things, he's arrested for the army 1997. So I had a very, you know, decent career. Just got hurt and just couldn't keep going. So Why'd you choose the marines? Greg Gibson. Greg Gibson was the was I wrestled.
George Pardos [:So Greg Gibson was, by far, Probably the most decorated, marine wrestler. Got a chance to go see him wrestle. You know, they had the, you you know, they had the I don't know if you remember Toledo. They had the World Cup, and they used to have this wrestling tournament. So we go up there, And I see Greg Gibson, and he is just a monster. £220. And he wrestled 2/20. He was 1984, silver medalist.
George Pardos [:But I got to see him, you know, before In
Steve Palmer [:the Olympics.
George Pardos [:Yeah. In the Olympics. He was 1981 world champion in Sambo. And, you know, he was just a, you know, national champion, and he I go up there, get to see chance to see him wrestle, and the Marine Corps had his wrestling program. I'm like, you know, That's what I wanna do. So, eventually, that's what I did. In 1988, I represented the the Marine Corps at the Olympic Trials. So I had a pretty good run.
George Pardos [:And at the army at the time, I just you know, they didn't have some of the things that I was looking for. And, And, you know, it it and looking back, I should've went in the Air Force. But, you know, you know, You know, I had wanted to do some things. And, you know, and you gotta remember, 1984, Reagan was in the office. The economy was actually Very good. It was so people were having a harder time getting people to go into military. We hadn't have fought a war.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. There was a comeback. You know, the the the terrible seventies were sort of, we had turned the corner from that, and was in starting a 2nd term.
George Pardos [:Yeah. And Grenada and you know, we had just left Lebanon. We had just you know, they had Grenada was over when I enlisted. So It it really I was like, yeah. Whatever.
Steve Palmer [:Michael Jackson's thriller. Van Damelen's 1984 came out. It it it was a interesting time.
George Pardos [:Well, we're the George
Steve Palmer [:Had Rambo come out yet? I think Rambo had just come out then too.
George Pardos [:Her first thought first blood. And Ramble is and we were the George Orwell class, you know, and Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
George Pardos [:And that was a very interesting time because, you know, when when you're in school, You're sitting there thinking about stuff. And, also, Ohio you know, there wasn't this pressure to go to school to get a degree like there was, you know, Like
Steve Palmer [:About 5, 6 years later. Back in the with Clinton era, it really they really put their foot on the gas pedal for him.
George Pardos [:So my dad, you know, says, mom, if you don't know what you're doing, you know, I don't want you to, you know, to do stupid stuff. And then our family had bars and, you know, we're our family had the the Brown Derby. I don't know if you remember that.
Steve Palmer [:I know the Brown. Yeah. Yeah.
George Pardos [:Then Coventry Steakhouse, and my uncle is Sparrow Fontes, who had 16 knees to have the Coventry Steakhouse, had, you know, Bunch of restaurants, and I'm like, I don't know I know I don't wanna go that way. You know? So because I will rob old ladies at ATMs before I work at the restaurant business again. I mean, that that that is just, It's
Brett Johnson [:a lifestyle, ain't it? It is. That's a lifestyle.
George Pardos [:And so I thought the Marine Corps would be the best way to go, And it was it was a good decision. And I gotta tell you something which made my decision even better. And consider this is Black History Month. I gotta tell you about guy by the name of Lloyd Kieser. Lloyd Kieser was our assistant he was our coach, and helped out with the team. Lloyd Kieser is the 1st African American medalist in the United States. He was the United States Marine Corps captain. So in 1976, he wrestles at the Montreal Olympics, wins the silver.
George Pardos [:So his roommate was my coach at Ohio State, Russ Helixson. So I go to I go to his name is Butch Keyes. You know, Lloyd Butch Keyes is really what is, he goes by, and he goes I said, hey. I have an I have an option to go wrestle Ohio State. Russ, you know, has reached out to me and said, hey. We you know, we'd like to have an upper way. Would you come wrestle at Ohio State, or I could have stayed in the ring horn wrestled? And Butch said, hey. Russ is a great guy, one of the best human beings ever.
George Pardos [:You will not regret it. And he said, you know, if you wanna go to school and get and wrestle, you know, you will never replace that experience. You'll in place, you'll have a degree. So Yeah. 1988, I got a scholarship here, And, you know, that that kind of turned things the you know, to come to Columbus. Plus, I I I like being home. Yeah. Yeah.
George Pardos [:I like Columbus. I mean, it's
Steve Palmer [:Columbus is a great place to live. I mean, it's a there's been some changes in the last couple years I'm not too happy with in Columbus just seeing what's going on. But, generally, it's it's like we seem to be generally immune from all the horrible stuff that happens around the country. You know, it's like, if it hits the country hard, it doesn't hit Columbus as hard. If, you know but at the uptimes are always up. The downtimes never seem to be quite as down. And I maybe it's because the government's here. You got the university here.
Steve Palmer [:Believe it or not, there's a lot of corporate entities here. Wendy's. Fast food capital of the world. Really? I think more fast food chains started
Brett Johnson [:here in Columbus. Now until, which
Steve Palmer [:who knows when that's gonna work? Knows. But Yeah. You know, you can. Norm's not here to bitch about it.
Brett Johnson [:I know exactly.
Steve Palmer [:But, so in 1988, you come into you come into Ohio State. What's interesting to me is I look, we I didn't do I usually do a World War two history fact of the day, which maybe maybe is a good segue into it. But, there is a I I read a book by, I think it was Steven Ambrose, who sort of pointed this out. All the veterans who came back and say, 44, 45, and we're gonna go to college. They came in, and, that was back in the days, I guess, that there was hazing going on. So if you're a 1st year freshman, you wear the beanie, and they sort of make funny or whatever. And these veterans are like, No effing way. Like, you you guys had like, they had like, the rest of us had zero understanding by, say, us Civilians, particularly the 18, 19, 20 year olds had zero understanding what these guys had these men had been through at this point.
Steve Palmer [:You know, we're talking like Anzio, which It was happening right now in 1943, I think. You're talking about Stalingrad or not Stalingrad, but, we talked about, well, Not Anzio. Oh, the Biola Bulge.
George Pardos [:You
Steve Palmer [:know, it's like these guys had come fresh off that stuff, and they go into college and they're gonna get hazed by a bunch of geeks. You know? It's like so how did it feel coming back and looking at these younger kids?
George Pardos [:I gotta tell you this. The the so fall of 88, I start, you know, I I start wrestling. And So we have a a a gentleman by the name of John Macko, who's our academic adviser. Yep. And he just recently retired, one of the greatest guys ever. So there was a rule that they had to have freshmen had to go to study table. Now mind you, It I had just got out of the Marine Corps in in, you know, that summer. I go to study table, and I it looks like I'm walking into miss Barbara's, you
Steve Palmer [:know Grade school class or something.
George Pardos [:School yeah. I mean, you know, like romper room. Miss Barber's from romper room.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah.
George Pardos [:Yeah. So I go in there.
Steve Palmer [:Took me a second. Good job.
George Pardos [:Yeah. Great reference. Sure. And and so I walk in there, and, you know, I have a, you know, I have, like, a slight, you know, 3 day beard. And I'm looking at somebody, and I'm they're kids. Yeah. And I Zero life experience. Zero life experience.
George Pardos [:And I'm like, Oh, you are I am not doing this. I and and and so I went there for a week, and I said and I went to John, and I said and I went and I argued with, you know, Argue with Jim Jordan at the time because he was our assistant. He was, you know, running, you know, part of the academic part, and I said, I am not showing up to study table. I'll kill one of these kids. Yeah. I I mean, seriously Right.
Steve Palmer [:Because you're fresh off 4 years in the military 4 years in the marines no less. Right?
George Pardos [:Yeah. And and so I look at them, and I'm like and I said, no. I am not doing this. By my senior year, I was the oldest student athlete on how to stand. I was 20, you know, 26 years old. I you know, 20 turned 27 in March. I used to walk into classes and You know, like, we'd go to Hitchcock or Campbell or something, you know, where they'd have, you know, the incoming. They thought I was the TA.
George Pardos [:So you'd walk into class, and I'm like, no. No. No. I'm just I Can
Steve Palmer [:you imagine, like, showing up at a wrestling meet, and you've got this guy on the other side of you? It's like he's 25 years old.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:He's ready to rock your world fresh out of the marines. I mean, there there's a certain strength I I would presume, and I'll let you comment on this, George. But I I would think there's a certain strength that you get from experiencing things like, hard things. Like, what are the words, the marines. And then you couple that with, like, the bonding and the brotherhood and everything that goes with it. You sort of have a different viewpoint on life. And anybody who's ever been through through something tough, even if it's, like, 2 a days in football, when you get through that, you feel better. And I imagine that's, like, you went through is, like, 50 or a 100 times that, and you just have a certain outlook on the world that gives you a little bit more, present strength, mental and physical.
George Pardos [:You're you're comfortable with being uncomfortable. That that you know, that's the whole thing.
Steve Palmer [:What a great what a great way to put it.
George Pardos [:And and that's that that's the one thing. And and I look at, you know, some of the experiences we had in the fleet. And I you know, one of the things I'll give you a prime example. We're in Lancelin, Australia doing, what's called a CAX, a a combined arms exercise with the Australian Army. It rained. It rained sideways. It rained forward. It rained backwards, and Australia rain is not like any other rain.
George Pardos [:We're in the field at that point for, like, 7 days, and it just rained the whole time. And we were just miserable. But you're looking back, we had some of the greatest times out there because we had fire missions, and we were able to do some really cool stuff. You're you become used to being uncomfortable. And so, you know, when when you look at things like you know, I see people get upset because they go to Starbucks, and the guy in front of you is like, My latte did not come out at a 138 degrees with light foam.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And you're looking at them like
George Pardos [:And I'm like looking at it. I was like, had people that are trying to kill me that were pretty trained at it, and they didn't. And the worst thing I have to worry about is getting a latte. Nah. I'm good.
Steve Palmer [:It's like, the band of brother. This was in a book. I think it made the series too where there's this these guys getting interviewed about being cold nowadays, and they just keep saying, well, at least Not best known. You know? It's not it's like I've been through hell, and this is not it. You know? So we got
George Pardos [:a chance. I so when I was in the Marine Corps, we got a chance to go to Iwo Jima, and goes at Mount Suribachi. And you'd take a look, and then you'd take a look.
Steve Palmer [:Is that is that, like, the holy grail in the marines?
George Pardos [:Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Pretty much. It's the holy grail of holy grails. And so at Iwo Jima, there's a thing as, you know, uncommon valor was a common virtue. And you don't realize what it looks like until you actually get there. And the beach that they landed on, there was It was like a 1,000 people getting into, you know, the courtyard outside.
George Pardos [:It was like it it was bodies on top of bodies, and they had you know, they threw them at the Japanese. And the Japanese had these tunnels that they had built all over the all over the island. So guys had to every time you shot 1, another guy would pop up because they would pull in the bodies. And one of the things that the the marine Did not know the marines at Iwo Jima did not know is the Japanese were very good at at extracting the bodies when they were dead, so you didn't know whether there was a 100 guys in in in this pit or, you know, 200. But
Steve Palmer [:It was demoralizing. Right? You you're not you don't feel you're making any headway.
George Pardos [:Yeah. And they and they did the same thing in in Korea when they you know, in in the Korean War, but they pulled them out. So they they would have these guys that would Going to tunnels, and there were 3 man teams, and they would chase down the Japanese. And so you look at this, and you you think about how many people were killed at Iwo Jima. And then you see Suribachi, you know, which the the picture of the that they have at Where Ira Hayes and all them, you know, plant the flag. That was a staged flag. That was that was the
Steve Palmer [:Interesting story behind that picture, but we won't go into it. But it It's still representative of something significant. Right?
George Pardos [:And so 2nd battalion, 8th marines was there, and they lost a lot of men. And one of the guys that Were was awarded the Silver Star, started he he started with a 156 men in his company. When it was done, they were on on the on the the the boat coming out of there. He said 19, 19 men all president encountered for. He had lost a 140 men out of his company Yeah. And and there was 19 left. And then you look at it, and you go, The, the, the marines that were there, They really killed a lot of people. And and so when you you start looking at that, you're like, well, Yeah.
George Pardos [:There's a a lot of history that goes behind it, but it's also how they fought. They fought on top of each other. So the guy that you that you're going in combat with, you're shoulder to shoulder. You know, you're not, you know, 500 feet away. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder. So, You know, you you're fighting with your buddy. You're fighting with the guy next to you, and it's it's pretty close. And so even today, when you, you know, you think about it, I still have, I wanna describe something.
George Pardos [:They're called 3 o'clock friends. You have you know, there there's a podcast that that just came out, they were talking about 3 o'clock friends that who who would you call at 3 o'clock in the morning? I call my I I could call half my platoon, and they will show up at 3 o'clock in the morning. Most people don't have that. You know, if you think about it, how many friends do you have that show up at 3 o'clock in the morning to move a body?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. The show
George Pardos [:I mean, I'm sorry. You're a lawyer. I I'm sorry. That that's Well,
Steve Palmer [:I'm the guy they call
George Pardos [:to move the couch. I need the couch. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:To move the couch.
Brett Johnson [:To clean the carpet.
George Pardos [:Right. Right. Yeah. I can either Confirmed or denied that I can Yeah. And so you're in battle with these guys, and then so there's nothing that bonds you Closer than, you know, a combat or serving together or the the or the fact that you have to trust this person with your life. Yep. And so That's one of the the reasons why the marine corps is a cult. You know? And and Is
Steve Palmer [:that true more so you think than, like, the army or the navy or the air force?
George Pardos [:Yeah. Because nobody says I grew I almost joined the navy. I mean, you know, anybody says, well, I almost joined the marine corps. And the marine corps is a cult because it's the smallest service. It's 100. Usually, with exception of a couple times, it averages about a 180,000 men or and women. So there's fewer marines. Paraceli graduates 7,000 recruits a year.
George Pardos [:San Diego recruits about the same, and then you have Quantico that graduates the marine officers. So there's not that many marines coming in every year.
Steve Palmer [:And and I still see this happening. You know, guys that say I'm a friend with somebody who's a former marine and then he encounters I introduce him to somebody else or he just meets somebody else. I'm around. They just look at you and say Semper Fi or what yeah. Like, there's a brotherhood that exists, and they don't even know each other.
George Pardos [:Yeah. That it it is. It's it's a brotherhood that and the Marine Corps instills that because one of the things that they you know, The Marine Corps is different because when you go to to to boot camp, and they've had this discussion why a marine's different. They work on you being a marine first Then doing everything else. Where the army, if you go to boot camp, they start teaching you how to shoot, how to march, how to do certain things, And there's not the same karma you know, there's not the same bond. In the Marine Corps, the first thing is you're gonna be a marine. And when They were talking about bonuses, you know, and and getting people to recruit. Right now, the only service that is not The Marine Corps is filling their recruitment tool because the assistant commandant said, you know what your bonus is for joining the Marine Corps? You get to get or claim the title of being a marine.
Steve Palmer [:Well, isn't that that's an isn't that an interesting psychological metaphor? You know, it's like, you can promise people trinkets. You can promise people whatever, But maybe the human soul is really looking for some sort of connection instead. You know? It's like the the external crap that is promised isn't as significant to people. Maybe even, subconsciously as, like, this notion, I'm gonna be part of something bigger than me.
George Pardos [:And and think about that. I mean, you look at the fraternities on college. I mean, you know and I'm not and I'm not comparing the 2, but look at the guys that are in Sigma Chi.
Steve Palmer [:Well, isn't it? But didn't fraternities, in large part, Were were military. Like, they were sort of mimicking that experience, create a brotherhood, create, this bond. You know? And, obviously, it's not the same. But it's it's a parallel.
George Pardos [:But you you know you have the, you know, the omega PSI FIs. You have the Capas, and and they they come you know, they're they come together, and It it is a you know, it's a connection, and it and it's a common bond. And one of the things that the the marine corps strives to do and sometimes they're good at it, and sometimes they're not, But it's you know, the training is the same regardless of where you go. Yeah. Where where the army, is not necessarily the same. You have what's called a 1 station unit training. So if you're a tanker, you go to a boot camp at Fort Knox, and you stay From boot camp all the way through Yep. To, you know, your a school.
George Pardos [:In the Marine Corps, you graduate boot camp, then you go to Marine Corps combat training, And then you go to, then you go to your MOS school. So you're you're trying to be a a combat marine, you know, a combat marine first, Then your job is 2nd. One of the other things is there's no I've ran into general officers, and they don't care. They you call them marine. You know, you're not you know, find you might you know, they might be a general, but you said, you know, you they it's a title. So the general the commandant of the Marine Corps doesn't care that you call them a marine, where you call a general in the army, a soldier, They you don't know what their response is gonna be.
Steve Palmer [:And isn't the marines a little bit I I I don't know why I've heard maybe I I could be wrong. Well, correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, my understanding of the marines is, like and maybe it's dovetailing with what you're saying. It's like you have this everybody learns how to do be a marine first. And then isn't there in the sort of the the goal to teach people all up and down the vertical ladder, like, you can do the next guy's job, and the next guy can do your job. And and and I don't think the other services are like that No. Necessarily.
George Pardos [:And that's one of the reasons why the retention levels in combat for the Marine Corps are the highest ever. So if you're more people reenlist in combat with the marine corps than at garrison.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, That makes sense. If you have a 180,000 marines, they have to be interchangeable. Yeah. Well, right. Have to know each other's job.
Steve Palmer [:And and doesn't it just make perfect sense? Like if you're gonna have an efficient fighting force Yeah. Like, we do that. I do that at my office. Right. I I make a like, I'm a I'm the the lawyer, but I know how to do this guy's the the all the people's Jobs. You know? I can run the the building. I can manage that. Or if I need it, I can do some of the clerical.
Steve Palmer [:It's like you have to that's the only way to be efficient in if you lost somebody.
George Pardos [:Right. Well, you take a look I'll I'll give you a prime example. You're familiar with Baker and Hostseller. Right? Yep. So The law firm. Yeah. The law firm.
Steve Palmer [:It's a national
George Pardos [:law firm. So one of my one of my dear friends is a guy by the name of Mike Coleman who went to the Naval Academy. They lost 1 of the guys that they one of the guys that they lost was their filing lawyer, the guy that filed the briefs, And he knew everything. Now he had an ankle monitor on him that if he ever came close to a courtroom, they would tackle him mean, maybe, you know, drag You're
Steve Palmer [:not allowed to argue in court.
George Pardos [:You're not allowed to argue. But he filed, you know, for loss you know, for lawsuits In class actions, he would file the briefs. He left. It took them almost 9 months to replace him. 9 9 months because this guy knew everything. He knew, that, you know, if you one of the just to give you, you know, a little simple thing, when you filed an appeal, you cannot file it both sides. They had to be on one side of paper.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
George Pardos [:Yeah. And and something as simple as that, you know, In the marine corps, they teach you you know, now, obviously, you can't take a grunt and make him a pilot. But if a pilot gets on the ground, he knows actually.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's what I mean. You learn to be a marine first. You can fight first. You can be you can be in this brotherhood first. Well, it's interesting. There's, How much there's a there's a perception that I have that of inefficiency in what inefficiency is. Like, if if if you can only do your job and you're not trained to figure out somebody to figure out how to do his job or do his job particularly. But I think more importantly, what I'm saying is figure it out.
Steve Palmer [:You know? There there's this idea that we have to be able to solve problems if we're gonna in the world. And this is this is lawyer training. People's like, what's it like to be a lawyer? Well, I I don't know the law, but I know how to learn it, and I can go figure it out. And now I figure after I've gone to law school, I can figure out almost anything. And As my dad used to say, look, as a lawyer, you can do almost everything that any other profession could do. Not as well, of course, but you can do it. But they can't do what you do because we've sort of gotten this education And to learn how to to to solve problems. And, you know, it seems to me that if you're gonna create a fighting force that has that instilled like, I can do, Like, I can figure out your job because I've got a little bit of training on sort of the all rounder back in the the Greek Olympics.
Steve Palmer [:That was, like, celebrated. And it doesn't I don't feel that way instinctively with the other branches of the service.
George Pardos [:And they're not. I mean, you know, the air force is, you know, the air force is a a a critical branch Because they have nuclear weapons. They have pilots, and their mission is to keep birds in the in the air in the air. That that's their mission. So, you have the pilots and then everything else. So and they're they're, you know, they're not a They're not mission oriented. They're where you know, they they're constantly doing something, but it's to support the pilots. So either you're a pilot or you're not.
George Pardos [:And, You know, basically, we call you know, the the Marine Corps refers to them as cross fit with nukes. So
Steve Palmer [:That's awesome.
George Pardos [:I didn't mean to. And so, you know, the army is you know, it it's in the same way. The army does you know, they they teach you your job. And then If you leave your job, it's gonna be harder for you to integrate, you know, do a lateral transfer. The other thing is that the army also has The the largest they are the largest logistical force in the on the planet. The US Army is. You know, if you think about the, the Army Corps of Engineers, the, I can't remember the exact I think it's 337th, logistic command down in, in New Orleans. They, if they have a FEMA event, the the their job is to bring in logistics, to bring in, The everything that they need.
George Pardos [:So that's handled by them, the d DLA, the Defense Logistics Agency. That's most of it is army moved. So their job is, especially, is is, Yes. You need to accomplish your mission. And do they have warfighters? Yes. I mean, they have some of the greatest, you know, 75th Ranger Battalion, You know, 101st, 82nd, they have I mean, the the classics. Yeah. You know, the classics.
George Pardos [:You know, they have special forces, and they have some great tier one units, and they are great warfighters. But It they're they don't have as many combat troops compared to the support troops. So that's, you know, the the Marine Corps Has a higher percentage of combat troops as support as as comparison to their the support troops.
Steve Palmer [:Gotcha. But, look, we I'd love to sit here, and I could talk about this stuff all day. But, we we I do wanna I do wanna cover some stuff about what you're doing now because you have this vet radio syndicate. Obviously, you're a vet. That's what we've been talking about. But tell tell us about that, how you got into it, and what it's all about.
George Pardos [:So Vet Radio Syndicate Started in, we started out as Warfighter Radio, and it started in 2016. And one of the things that that happened is veterans didn't have a a voice online. So we when we first started, we had, the the guy that started it started bringing vets on air to tell their message. We used to broadcast, you know, not on Facebook, but we we broadcast on, we use Spreaker. We use OBX, and we use and then we had weekly shows, and we had about, One time, we had about 30 hosts. But, basically, what we did was help veterans Start a podcast or, you know, get start a show, get their message out. And, also, number 2, which is kinda more important, is to get veterans connected with groups that they needed. So, we would you know, we We had 22 to hold on, mission 22.
George Pardos [:If we had a veteran crisis, we had, support teams that would reach out to them and help them out. We had and we still do. I mean, we still do. I mean but, basically, is we want to give veterans If if there's something that's going on with the veteran, we wanna get them help, because they're a lot of them are falling through the cracks. So what we basically BUILD is a platform to get veterans online to tell their story, to tell, you know, what's going on, And, also, to have, you know, some lighthearted comedy, that is, you know, entertainment because sometimes, you know, Just being able to get on the air and make fun of, you know Anything. Right. Anything. You know, and it's,
Steve Palmer [:What a what a fascinating I mean, it it sort of just just clicked on me what you're doing. You you create a platform, and it's not like there's 1 show that, You know, you've got a certain direction and a and a cause and a message that you're that you're, putting out there. But you open it up to all veterans to be able to have a voice and and and and talk about whatever they wanna talk about. But it's like this subtle goal next to that is those who need that kinda camaraderie, comradery Or connection can get it. And then those who need help then have, like, a structure in place with others who are already there to get the help they need. So it's it's like it's almost I don't wanna say one's primary and one's secondary, but those goals, it seems like, are working hand in glove.
George Pardos [:Yeah. And we So one of the groups we deal with is 22 till 9. And one of the things that happens is the VA has some help, and But sometimes in certain places, they lack support system. So for example, I'll give you an example of something we do. We help, female veterans that are in crisis. So that are that you know? And one of the things that that happens if they're, they're under if they had to deal with domestic violence, we have ways of getting them out of that situation, putting them up in a safe harbor. And so that's one of the things that we do. We have, A program where we buy groceries for veterans that just need you know, that are or or short on, You know, and short on funds.
George Pardos [:Sometimes, you know, they, you know, I'll give you an example. You know, we have even if if you're a 100% disabled From the VA, sometimes, you know and you have you know, you're missing a leg or or something like that, they're not as supportive as you think yours. You have to come out of pocket. And so sometimes they run you know, they need their gas bill paid, or they need some groceries, or they need their, you know, You know, something paid. We have 2229 deals with that. That's one of the groups that we partner with. We have other groups like Irreverent Warriors, that we deal with that they They have marches. They, you know, they they go have a march, you know, 5 k walk, but it gets a bunch of veterans together.
George Pardos [:We have another group that, They have a race team. They go out and, you know, they go watch the races. We have a group that does fishing and goes outdoors. And so we get veterans to, you know, to get into that, to go out and fish. So The reason for that is that their work they're dealing with other veterans, which helps because veterans speak their own language, and that's that is the first thing. Number 2 is that if they need to talk, they have a mechanism there where they're around other people that they can talk about. And one of the things that happens at that point is they if they're able to talk about what's going on, it seems to calm them down. Because then what you know, the the guy next to you is saying, hey.
George Pardos [:Listen. I've been through that. You know, it's like the old thing that well, you you know, the guy in the hole That drops a quarter in the hole. The guy throws a 20 down there, and he says, you know, well, now we're both stuck. And he says, yeah. But I know the way out. Yeah. And and so when you have something like that, people have a tendency to go, okay.
George Pardos [:They'll open up to a veteran. And one of the the things that the VA has done and it's helped is roundtable therapy. And that it you know, where you get, you know, 10, 15 guys in a room, you know, females also. I mean, it's not I need just to say, hey. Listen. What's going on? Not all veterans, You know, work with that. Sometimes you need a 1 on 1. Sometimes you just need to, you know I had I had a battle on we we call them battle on distress.
George Pardos [:A few years ago, I had to literally, every 3 days a week, I had to go a friend to deal with this, you know, this veteran, and he was really the one of the worst cases I've ever seen till we got him some help. But Three times a week, I would take a Mamie's Donuts, and we would just have a cup of coffee and on you know, and sit on the couch. And, you know, And it would just be, you know, an hour of sometimes we didn't even talk. But the fact that he had somebody there that was supportive And, you know And and that he can trust.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Because he feels like, look. We we've got some connection here that goes back. That sort of transcends everybody else. I I I can trust this guy. It's it's it's an interesting thought. I mean, look, it's it's not complicated psychology. If you're gonna go punish somebody in prison, what do you do? You put them in solitary confinement.
Steve Palmer [:And if you if you take that sort of model and you say, look, how do we make a veteran miserable in his own experiences? Well, give him nobody to talk to and make him just sit there and act like nothing's wrong. And, you know, it's like, when those secrets are still within you, then they eat you alive. As soon as you tell somebody, it it it's like it sort of goes away. You know, it it sort of, like, relieves the pressure. And and I don't mean to I don't presume to understand the psychology of what these guys go through, but I think that's sort of what you're getting at. You give these guys an organic way Right. To interact with others. And what we have found at this table, we call it the round table.
Steve Palmer [:What we have found here is that we all feel better when we sit and talk like this About anything. It it it doesn't have to be what we're sad about. Anything. We always feel better.
George Pardos [:So there's a a study that came out in about, You know, the the when you're talking about the roundtable, people that engage in this kind of conversation to get mental help and get get therapy Have about a 60% success rate. Add 1 more add 1 more Shit. Whatever you you know, add 1 more therapy measure. Whatever it is, they get to about 90%. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:And and and it's probably true. I'm saying probably because I don't presume to know again. But it's probably true that to get that one more therapy measure, you almost have to start like this. Yeah. Because then nobody's gonna just jump to that. Either it's it's gotta be like this movement. Like, oh, you're doing that too. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:I can I can yeah? I feel a little more comfortable doing this, so I'll go to do this. The next thing you know, you've got that one more thing, whatever it is.
George Pardos [:Whatever it is. And and they you know, from cognitive, you know, from cognitive therapy to Any of the any of the therapy measures that are, you know, accepted by, you know, l you know, LSWs, MSSWs, Whatever that is, if you get any individual 2 therapy measures, they have about a 90% success rate, And that's what we we try to focus on. So there's different programs that, one of the things we we worked on is we tell veterans about veteran stand down. They had it at the convention center. So Veterans Stand Down is, that they have every government agency that has Care for veterans. The the hardest thing about veterans right now is, of all, they there's more alcoholism than any other, Whatever I don't know whatever you wanna call it.
Steve Palmer [:Any other drug. Drug. There's more people addicted to alcohol. Look. In my in my line of work representing people charged if you got rid of alcohol and did
George Pardos [:not replace it with something similar, you would eliminate most crime. And so they have, Mount Carmel and Wasn't familiar with this, but Mount Carmel has a, a program for veterans, for alcohol. Ohio State has a a program for veterans that have been hurt in, you know, not just in combat, but in you know, they've been hurt. They have a a, basically, a wounded veteran care. So all of those groups came together, and they have these things called veteran standout. Well, a lot of the veterans that showed up did not know that. That you know, because a lot of the times, they're One of the things is everybody wants to help vets. That's great.
George Pardos [:But where do you start? Mhmm. And so Franklin County does a great job. I've met with mayor Ginther and his staff, and, you know, they hire veterans. You know, they they get help for veterans, and they get, You know, they get mental help for veterans. And sometimes, just sitting down with a group of veterans and just bitching helps out tremendously. Then they have next level care where if you need, you know, some, you know, chemical therapy, you know, you need to get on, Whatever the, you know, antidepressants or some they will give you that. So does the VA. But Hold Alright.
Steve Palmer [:You just brought up VA for the 1st time. Like, we I mean, I think one one other time you mentioned VA, but all this stuff you've talked about, you got the VET Radio Syndicate that sort of brings people together And helps people sort of make that take that 1st step into the 1st discussion and then maybe the 2nd discussion. And then all at the same time, it's providing content for veterans on the radio. Where does the VA fit into that? That's all outside VA. Right? You're not doing that.
George Pardos [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:The the VA has not sponsored you and and
George Pardos [:No. They have not. And and the the problem one of the problem with the has been and I'll give you something you might have not thought. 1990, there was 31,000,000 685,000 veterans. Okay. 19.90. Alright. 19.90.
George Pardos [:As of this year, as of 2024, we are down to 16,000 16,900,000 veterans. We have lost almost 14,000,000 veterans who have died in the since 1990. The veteran population is getting older. You know, we're going to see in our lifetime, we're we're gonna see the last World War 2 veteran die. Mhmm. And so one of the problems has been is that the VA, as veterans of age, they have to give better care to those veterans. Number 2
Steve Palmer [:Right. So now they're they're dealing with things like hearing loss and things like, you know, the physical stuff. Like we're doing
Brett Johnson [:with the society following the boomers kinda feel.
Steve Palmer [:Very similar. Yeah. That's a great because
George Pardos [:they're all yeah. Kinda. And so in World War 2, it was it was 11.2% Of the population served was underarms. Everybody served. You know? Every and so in one way of of another, you know, I'll give you a prime example. The greatest ball player the greatest baseball player of all time, Ted Williams Uh-huh. Served you know, he was a marine, Served in World War 2, served in Korea. He was John Glenn's wingman, and one of the best stories ever.
George Pardos [:They were out on a mission, and Ted Williams has 2016 vision. And he goes to John Glenn. Hey. There's 2 MiGs At, you know, at 3 o'clock, John Glenn goes, I don't see them. He goes, they're there. You know? And He they, you know, they turned and engaged them, and, you know, John Glenn finally sees them. And he says he says, when I had Ted Williams with me, I I He says, I was not scared of anything because no one was gonna sneak up on us.
Steve Palmer [:He had 2016 vision. 2016. I mean, he was an incredible hitter. So it's like, I wonder you you wonder how that correlates with it. Anyway, that's a dive we don't need to take.
George Pardos [:And so he so when he when you talk about Joe DiMaggio served. You know, Pete everybody served during World War 2. Ronald Reagan served. You know, every president we had from 19, from Eisenhower on I mean, he well, no. From Harry s Truman to Bill Clinton was in the military. Every single one of them were World 2 vets. The all the Bill Clinton was the 1st nonveteran to hold be in the White House, in since FDR. Interesting.
Steve Palmer [:I
Brett Johnson [:thought of it that way.
George Pardos [:Interesting. Well, I mean, you you you want you know, you go down Eisenhower was a World War 2 vet with the army. JFK was with the navy. Richard Nixon was with the Navy. LBJ was with the Navy. Jimmy Carter was with the Navy. Ford? Robert Ray Ford was, I think he was the army or the navy. Then you had, Reagan, which was with the Army Air Corps, and then you had Bush, which was who was a fighter pilot.
George Pardos [:Yeah. Yep. In World War two. And so he the 1st non veteran that we had in the White House was Bill Clinton for long It's
Steve Palmer [:an interesting Here's
George Pardos [:the 1st baby.
Steve Palmer [:Or There's some conclusions we could probably draw from that that I I won't I gotta I gotta give that some thought, but that that's an that's an interesting factoid. Mhmm. So, look, the the VA is is sort of doing its thing, and you're doing your thing. I mean, is there ever any interaction?
George Pardos [:Yeah. We we we interact with the VA, and there are some things that the VA has done better. One of the reasons the the VA is really good at at at providing health care. The the problem is And and this is something that we've that I've seen and our our group has seen is they're not good at telling what's available. So they're you know, if you go show up at the VA and you're hurt, you broke your arm, they will treat you're a veteran, they will treat you. You know, if you have, you know, if you show up and you, you know, you have, you need whatever you need health care wise, they will treat you. They have some programs, though, that most veterans aren't aware of, and they don't tell you that. So unless you have what's called a VSO, veteran service officer, Sure.
George Pardos [:They they don't tell you that, hey. This program's available. So one of the things that It's it's kinda hard to explain, but you can be have a disability rating and not be treated at the VA, And you can be treated at the VA without having a disability rating. So one of the things that happens is that there's, you know, there's guys out there that just need, You know, blood pressure pills. Well, you can go to VA, and they'll give them to you. Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:You
George Pardos [:know, so
Steve Palmer [:It's funny. My dad did that for for like, he's never gone to VA his entire life. And then now he's 90 or almost 90. And he's, like and somehow, he connected with the VA for hearing loss Mhmm. From being in the air force. And, like, he could have gone there for everything. I mean, he was worried about his own health care. He's worried like, he's always bought his own stuff.
Steve Palmer [:He never really even thought about
George Pardos [:And and so those programs are always available, but it's it's a promise that you know, let's say you're not in a major metropolitan area. So Columbus has one of the best VAs out there.
Steve Palmer [:They sent him to Toledo, I think, by the way. And if you doesn't make much sense, but that's what
George Pardos [:Well and if you have a heart problem, they're gonna send you to Cleveland and the Cleveland Clinic, and they're gonna get you treated there. So the VA has great programs. A lot of veterans don't know about that.
Steve Palmer [:Well, let me ask you a different question, though. I and I'll tell you a story, and then I'll ask you and I'll ask the question. I had a client who was accused of drunk driving, and it was his 2nd offense. He was a court veteran. And the judge, I'm not gonna say the jurisdiction, it was not Columbus, wanted me to have this Client evaluated and looked for alcohol substance abuse type treatment. And the judge was sort of pushing me to have him, go to the VA and do that. I mentioned that to my client, and I got some eye rolling and, like, yeah, whatever. I mean, you know, not because he didn't wanna do the evaluation, but because he didn't trust it necessarily.
Steve Palmer [:He thought, what a pain in the He thought, what a pain in the ass this is gonna be. I don't wanna go mess with that. He goes, do you have anybody else I can use a private guy? And I do. I mean, I got a guy. You give him You know, it's a text away, and you've you he's working with you. So what is the is there is there a what's the what's the perception of veterans For services that the VA provides, I guess that's what I'm asking in a long winded way.
George Pardos [:It depends on the area. Columbus has again, I I'm speaking for Columbus. They have a great VA. Philadelphia, not as much. It one of the problems that happened is, one of the veterans in Philadelphia killed himself in the parking lot. Phoenix had a a a huge problem. So depending on the area that you were were in, the depended on The level of care. So each state is different.
George Pardos [:Now you, you know, you would think that the VA across every Every system would be the same, and it's not. So if you go back to you have to take a look at the level of health care that the state provides Because, you know, the part of the VA funding comes from state Medicaid. So, you know, that that come
Steve Palmer [:so So it's tied to it's tied to funding into in to some degree.
George Pardos [:And then and so now the the VA, you know, in the in the last 10 years, especially, has done a better job because, You know, we have too many veterans that have, you know, killed themselves, committed suicide, and they said, you know, we can't get help. Well, now, you know, they they've done that. So One of the things that they've done at the the VA here, and they've done it in other places, like, I'll give you an example. They've done it in Atlanta. They have what's called intake care. So if you're at risk and you need help, they will bring you in. They, you know, they will get you, you know, It's like, you know, if you're having a mental breakdown, they'll get you in and bring you in there and keep you there. And that and it works.
George Pardos [:Charlotte is the same way. Charlotte has very good care. Toledo has very good care. So it depends on the area, and it also depends on What you need exactly. But some VAs are overloaded because, you know, we have Dallas has a good VA system, But you have a lot of veterans who are in Dallas. Mhmm. You know, you have, Oklahoma City has a lot you know, there's a lot of veterans at daycare. So In places where you have a lot of veterans, you're always gonna have a lot of you know, you're you're gonna be overwhelmed, and Do the best that they can.
George Pardos [:You know, the Bronx has VA hospital, and they're they're doing very good. But in some places Because, you know, anytime you're you know, you have a bureaucracy, you're gonna have issues. So veterans are like, you know, I'd rather not go. And, you know, the the the problem then happens is 1 veteran tells another veteran, tells another veteran, tells another veteran, And then all of a sudden, you know, you have that, you know, you have that groundswell. So one of the things that we've done at At VRS is that we've tried to get people into certain programs.
Steve Palmer [:Radio Syndicate, VRS does. Yeah.
George Pardos [:Vet yeah. Vetrad Vetradio, we try to get people say, hey. Listen. You're if you are having frontal lobe dysplasia, you're having a TBI, let's get you to some care that we that we can get you for that.
Steve Palmer [:And you can maybe sort of you know, like, you call it a ground swell, which is really like this. It it becomes you know, the negative attitude just sort of becomes addicting or An epidemic. So you can help break through and say, look. Yeah. No. No. We trust us. We know this.
Steve Palmer [:They can help you over here. Here's what it is and and maybe ease people into some care.
George Pardos [:So one of the the people that we have on stat or, you know, as an adviser is we have a doctor at the University of Missouri that handles TBIs. So if we need
Steve Palmer [:if we have a vet A traumatic
George Pardos [:brain injury. Yeah. Traumatic. Yeah. And those are the were those are the worst Situations to deal with because, yeah, you have front of the lobe dysplasia. They're not you know, there's 14 different things that happen. We call him, and he's, you know, a doctor there. And we go, hey.
George Pardos [:I've got this veteran. He's down in Savannah, Georgia. Where do we need to get him to to get some some help? Because if if he doesn't get help, a, he's gonna get worse, But then he become you know, he might commit suicide or something like that. So he, deals with a lot of, You know, neurological centers. And we have had some really good, support with them. One of the things that, you know, that We've also have is there's some other groups that have started, dealing with microdosing mushrooms, and that has helped a lot of Of you know, they've been proven to give repair. There's a a program out in Colorado where they Take veterans, and they give them, peyote, and they wind up doing the Indian, tent ceremony. Yep.
George Pardos [:And that has helped. But and not every veteran is gonna have you know, there there's different versions of PTSD. You you can have Shock trauma. You can have attachment trauma. You can have, from TBI. You can have from, Tickle me survivor's guilt. So every veteran is different. The the the and, you know, people outside of the VA says, oh, all you need is a night out in town, and you'd be better.
George Pardos [:Oh, yeah. We didn't think of that. Right. Right. You know?
Brett Johnson [:And Well, yeah. And and you saying that okay. So I need to ask you this. This has been burning in my mind. I I I But you're changing my mind about this a little bit. As a why can't we get our shit together as as a country and support our vets? And via VA or but I'm also rethinking that now. Maybe we better not. Maybe this is better that what we're setting up here.
Brett Johnson [:I know it's It's a trickle effect. You know, trying to reduce those number of vets dying every day, taking their own lives and such, but Putting money in the VA may not necessarily be the answer. It's more of what you're doing.
George Pardos [:And I don't wanna take anything away from the VA because And
Brett Johnson [:I'm not trying to either. No. It's it's throwing money at the government.
Steve Palmer [:That's what I The problem is when the government tries to fix a problem of this broad spectrum, it can't do it. It can't do it for it for political reasons. It can't do it for financial reasons. It can't do it because it it it doesn't know how to do it. But but but
Brett Johnson [:but I feel as a country, we're obligated to help these men and women Out, though, somehow.
Steve Palmer [:But isn't this a parallel to what's going on in the it's like before the gut before we looked at the government to take care of everybody, like, with its well, like, with its social safety net, The local people did it. People like you, George, did it. You know? People like the the church on the corner would help take care of the people who were struggling that week to get their groceries. And they did it so much more efficiently than the government could ever do it because they didn't have to employ 50 or a 1000000 people down a bureaucracy to get it done. Now the VA I think what you're saying is The VA has its benefits, but it's it it needs to be supplemented by what by what you're doing.
George Pardos [:And and so one of the things I'll give you a a a back. In the 19 fifties, who do you think had the largest job program in the United States? I don't know. When I tell you, you're gonna be surprised. The Catholic church.
Brett Johnson [:Really?
George Pardos [:Mhmm. Okay. The the Catholic church in the 19 fifties at a job program. You go to the the local diocese, and they would find you a job because guess who was connected with? The unions.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Okay.
George Pardos [:And it and they also had an operated, they operated kitchens or, you know, whatever, you know, grocery.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
George Pardos [:And part of it it goes back to is that If you went to the church and, you know, you were getting groceries or help, then what they would do is that, you know, they would say to you, you know, if I'm bringing you food, I I'm keeping you a little bit accountable. But when you're, you know, when you're getting an EBT card from the government, there's no accountability there. So, you know, now there's you there's
Steve Palmer [:Well, I mean, it's like the AA model. Right? It's like you you don't, you can't just do say I'm in AA and and go into the ether. Like, they have local groups that talk about things. And, like, that accountability component that you're talking about, George, makes all the sense in the world to me. And and I've you're just you're just adding more spice to what I already believe, which is when the government replaced the church. And I'm not talking about religion. I I'm talking about, like, the I won't even say church. I'll say with the local support structure is gone because It doesn't people perceive it doesn't need to be there.
Steve Palmer [:And what you are doing is rebuilding that in some way in in in helping people find the government resources that are there, But not only helping them find them, helping them know that they need to. Yeah.
George Pardos [:And so I'll give you an example, you know, not to you know, in In politics. But if you go to Scandinavian countries, they're the least charitable countries out there. And one of the reasons is because they pay a high tax, and If they have a problem or something, they expect the government to take care of it. So here, what we, you know, what we say to, you know, to the the veterans, we need help. Like, One of the things we help is gold star mothers or parents. You know, and one of the our spokespeople's, lady by the name of Tracy LaPorte, She helps gold star moms. I cannot begin to have any input on on I I've lost friends in combat, and that's Great. But a gold star mom is somebody that's lost a child in combat.
Steve Palmer [:Can you imagine? I I can't I can't imagine. Right.
George Pardos [:Yeah. And so what we do is we have, you know, we have a Support system that, you know, Tracy LaPorte, we get people to her because they have a support network that says, hey. You're gonna be dealing with this. Let me get you to a a parent or, we have another group. It's called minus 22 That helps, suicide survivors.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm. I don't
George Pardos [:even know how to I don't even know how if they have had a spouse or a family member Commit suicide. Mhmm. They they help them, and they get because that that takes a different completely different set of dynamics. So The the problem we have had is, you know, going with the VA, we went from treating Vietnam veterans and World War 2 veterans And which was what the VA's mission had been for the longest time to now having an aging population And having, you know, basically, nonlinear combat, now that you're treating people that, you know, 1990 or 19 you know, you know, the war in Desert storm was the last conventional war the planet ever had, so we will never see anything like that again ever. So we now are dealing with asymmetrical warfare, and you're having different Things happen that you have to deal with. So, you know, anytime you have a big system like the VA, I mean, it's the 3rd I gotta look this up, but I think it's the 3rd or 4th largest expenditure that our government does.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And I said, you know, like anything the government does, it has good, and it has some bad, and it has some corruption, and it has some inefficiencies. I mean, none of it is gonna work, I don't think, as well as the 3 o'clock or your 3 AM Guy, you know? Like, you're not gonna go to the VA at 3 AM and or even think to call the VA at 3 AM, but you're gonna call your buddy who's gonna come over and put his you and say, hey. Let's put on a movie and just hang out here.
George Pardos [:Yeah. We have and and that's what we have. The the we have a, like, a battle in distress program that if we need somebody, We will get we will get to you.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And and It's somebody who understands. It's not a bureaucrat.
George Pardos [:Right. And we also You know, the there's a a new program now with law enforcement, that, You know, we have a thing with law enforcement that they will send crisis officers that are veterans Awesome. To to because the last thing you wanna do Is you you don't wanna engage a veteran that's, you know, combat trained that you you don't wanna send you know, because
Steve Palmer [:You want somebody who understands the psychology and what's going on. You know? And So well, that sort of fit that that that shifts us over to the the other the another topic I wanna cover, and then think we're probably getting to the point where we get maybe 1 or 2 things. But, you know, you and I have a mutual friend. He's a prosecutor. And you you you I don't know if you mentioned it here today, but we've talked about Four. And there's this thing that I'm seeing emerge all around the justice system. It's called veterans court. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, I don't even understand it completely, but, You know, I'm just wanna get your thoughts on tell us what veterans court is from your perspective, its effectiveness, because I see a lot of veterans with alcohol issues. And but when I say I see them, I represent people charged with crimes. And when when people call me, it's usually not their best day, and they need my help. There's a lot of veterans who need my help, and they don't even know that I I can sort of, like, see the psychology of it. Maybe it's a domestic violence. Maybe it's substance abuse, Whatever. Or maybe it's completely unrelated, and they're just veterans. And then we get to court, and there somebody will say, oh, this is a good candidate for veterans court.
Steve Palmer [:So take it from there, George.
George Pardos [:What what's that all about? So When, when Mike, they've started veterans court across the US.
Steve Palmer [:Our our friend, Mike. Yeah.
George Pardos [:And, So one of the things they've started here in Columbus and it's been pretty effective. One of the things that that happens is that when you go to when you go to court, you're dealing with some issues that you you might have dependency issues, and that that happens. And and then, you know, the other thing is, You know, do you wanna put a veteran in in general population, or, you know, send him to prison for something that, you know, they could have been treated easier if he had gotten treatment beforehand? And, you know, that that's a question that that arises all the time. It's like, well, wait a second. What cost him to get here? You know? And And is the government somehow part and parcel?
Steve Palmer [:I don't wanna say responsible. But look, if somebody served the country and advanced our general interest And that caused this problem that got him there. That's that's different than somebody who might even have the same kind of problem that didn't happen as a result of serving the greater population. Yeah.
George Pardos [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I think that is different.
George Pardos [:And it is. And and then the problem is that people you know, here here's the thing that usually, the what you don't have in, in the in veterans court or in veterans, you're you're not gonna have, you know, sexual assault crimes. You're not you're not gonna have a veteran you know, if if they do that, then, you know, Fry them, you know, whatever. Mhmm. But they're gonna have issues of bad judgment.
Steve Palmer [:Anger management issues I've seen. People get drunk And they got anger issues, and they explode, and something happens, a bar fight, a spouse's abuse, that kinda thing.
George Pardos [:And so we we can forgive stupidity. We can't forgive evil. That that's that's the whole thing. And I I'll give you an example of this. I was in the short north at a bar, and I have a couple friends of mine that are police officer. And one of them is a police officer that is was Mike Corman, and we have a pact. And this is, you know, here in Columbus. If we call you, if we are drunk, and you need help, we don't care.
George Pardos [:You know, we will come get you. And so I called my buddy who's a com Columbus police officer, and I said, hey. You need to come get me. I'm at this bar, because either if you don't get me now, you're gonna have you you're gonna have the corner here in about another hour or so because, you know and so he sent a cruiser to come get me. And, you know, that that you know, because we've been drinking, and we had a couple of, you know, whatever I call them, the the, you know, the Chads down there. Yeah. And so, You know, I I made one phone call, and I said, hey. You know, hey, sergeant.
George Pardos [:Yeah. You need to come get me. He sent a cruiser to, You know, to get me out of there because it was gonna turn bad. The the last thing you wanna do is put people in a situation where there's there's no outs.
Steve Palmer [:So So what is it? So help me out here because that's an interesting scenario you've described. You had the wherewithal to say, look. I recognize the triggers that are right in front of me, and I know that this is about to go to a place that's not good for me. I've got this resource. I'm gonna use it. It's like, what intervention? Like, well, how do we get to that? How do we get people to that spot where they recognize it and and do it? Like You
George Pardos [:have to tell them that it's available. You have to tell the people that this is available. And this is one of the things that why one of the things we focus on is a, making sure that veterans have a place to talk, to vent. If nothing else, I mean, we have, one of the things we do here in Columbus is we have a thing called, coffee with coaches. So about once a month, we get there's about 10 veterans get together, and we and we have coffee, And we just bitch. And we talk about everything but combat. You're not allowed to talk in it. You're not allowed to bring up combat.
George Pardos [:You cannot you know, you You you bring you talk about things that are are concerning you. You know? Hey. You know, I'm I'm having troubles over here or or nothing else. We just talk about everything but combat. And and and the reason is that you don't wanna once you start talking about combat, it starts forcing people down a dark hole. Right? And then so what we do is
Steve Palmer [:There's a place for that, but not dead.
George Pardos [:Right? Not dead. Right. So we we sit there and talk about, you know, you know, we we talk about Ohio State Football. We talk about training. We talk about you know, here's, we have a thing that we you know, About repurposing your life, all those things. But we get it. We make sure that you have a a a place to vent Or at least to talk about things that, you know, concern you. You know? Like, hey.
George Pardos [:How how's my diet going? How's my training going? Hey. This is, You know, something that we could use to make sure you have, you know, joint dexterity, things like that. And it it gives people a place to to What's amazing forward versus backwards.
Steve Palmer [:You're giving people Yeah. Alternatives. It's like what what's interesting is it's sort of collateral, but it's not. Like, alright. So we're gonna get on the radio, and we're just gonna start talking about vets. But because of that, we're gonna get more vets to listen to us, and we're gonna engage in more vets. And because they're engaged with us and we're vets too, we're gonna understand their problems. And maybe they're gonna feel comfortable asking us for help for their problems, and we can organically funnel them into all these different places.
Steve Palmer [:And what you're talking about here is sort of the same. You're like, look. We're not gonna go talk about combat. We know that's really what's screwing us all up, but we're not gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about our workout regimen or this or something else. And then in the organic context of that, People start to come out of the darkness a little bit and get the help they want. It's it's a fascinating I'm not a psychologist, but this is fascinating. And you guys have stumbled on it, I think, without Even recognizing
George Pardos [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:How deep it really is.
George Pardos [:And one of the things we you know, that we have is that we have a weekly check on your buddy. You know? I'll give you a funny God.
Brett Johnson [:I wish I had that guy.
George Pardos [:No. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I I got my dog.
George Pardos [:And I I'll give you an example. I So I have a friend of mine from you know, that was my roommate. I sent him a text one day. Right? And I said, hey. Just wanna tell you I love you. 3 minutes later, the phone rings, and it's his wife. And she's like, Who the hell is this? Oh oh, no. Oh, no.
George Pardos [:And she goes I I said I said, this is George. And she goes, what is wrong with you? And and she goes, why are you sending my husband texts
Steve Palmer [:to say that? Love your brother.
George Pardos [:And I said, hey. And I said, listen. I've taken naked showers with your husband before you ever did.
Steve Palmer [:Right. That's awesome.
George Pardos [:And and so Those are little things that during the day that, you know, we we say to people, hey. Reach out to your buddy. Even if it's just even if somebody Just, you know, say, hey. I'm thinking about you. Hey. Are you okay?
Steve Palmer [:Well and I think, you know, for whatever it's worth as as a non veteran looking in at this, these are not things That wouldn't that are that aren't important in every other area too outside the veterans organizations. Like, look. If if everybody did this, if everybody would say, look. I know a guy I went to college with or went to high school with or I used to be childhood friends with who's struggling. And you just thought, I'm gonna reach out to that guy and say and just check-in on him. That's happened to me a couple times. I went through some hard times, and people would text me, hey, man. What's going on? You cool? Let's get breakfast tomorrow, or what's hookah? And just hearing it sometimes Makes all the difference.
Steve Palmer [:But how many people actually think about doing it?
Brett Johnson [:We I from what I and I didn't really practice this during the COVID era. But you hear a lot of people doing that checking in during COVID because of of older adults that just didn't get out because they were afraid to go out. So they had people checking in on them. I think it Great.
George Pardos [:And and and the other thing is that you also we have a stigma in the male in the male community because, You know, men are per you know, men commit suicide at a higher level because, you know, we grew up at a time, hey. You know? We're more successful at
Steve Palmer [:it entirely. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think women might attempt more, but they don't succeed. Men succeed almost every time they try.
George Pardos [:Right. And, you know, you go, hey. You know, you you you drink. You know? And then if the If the answer was at the bottom of the bottle, you'd have the answer at the 1st bottle. And Yeah. It's a it's a good point. You know? But one of the things is that you you know, when's the last time you just sat down with One of your buddies and just it just talked. And one of the things that that happens, and this is outside of the veteran community, But it happens when men use code words, and we have a problem with deciphering those.
George Pardos [:So if you have a one of your male friends says to you, I'm tired
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm. Yep.
George Pardos [:You know? And I had a couple friends of mine said I I and I and I checked with them. I said, what kind of tired are you? Are you physically tired or you're emotionally tired? Because if you are emotionally tired, hey. But, you know, let let's talk about this because that you know? And so, you know, men use I'm not gonna say subtlety, but they're not gonna just come out and say, hey, man. I'm having a really tough time right now. I need somebody to talk to. And, you know, and as we age, Sometimes you know, one of the things that it seems to be is that if you don't have a a good friend, it's hard to be vulnerable because you you have to trust that other person with your feelings. Mhmm. And So if you're not if you don't have somebody if you don't have a safe space, a safe harbor, somewhere you can say, hey, man.
George Pardos [:I'm having a hard time with this. What you know, I need to to to vent. You know, what what's the next step? Because you take a look at at people that you know, you take a look at Anthony Bourdain, Robin Williams. You know? And people that you you think are successful, and there's even, You know, there there's a I don't know how to say this. There there are people that have looked at the Heath Ledger, death. And he said that that was more of a suicide than he overdosed because he was having in a in a dark place. And so that you know, Where we think that people overdose, is it an overdose by accident? Is there an overdose on purpose to, you know, commit suicide? Reckless one. Like, I
Steve Palmer [:don't give a crap either way. Right. Right. And so in a second. Right? So if
George Pardos [:you don't have a safe space to be vulnerable at, you know, what happens then? You keep all your feelings fine. You just say one day, you're like, hey. Screw it. I'm done. I'm gonna check out.
Steve Palmer [:Well, I've said this many times. It's it's really, really lonely to be a strong man because you don't you don't have those out. Like, we don't get to go complain to people. We don't get to go talk to people and and and bitch about so and so and this and that and the other. It's like, look. You you throw the load on your back, and you march on. That's what we do. You know? And that's, it it it's it's not weak To do what you're talking about doing, it's actually very healthy.
Steve Palmer [:It enables you to it enable it enables me, when I talk to my buddies, to actually take on more More responsibility and be better at being a man, generally speaking. So, you know, I think everybody needs a dose of that sometimes.
George Pardos [:And, you know, you think about it. I mean, if you, You know? And I I'm not listen. I'm not pushing religion because that's you know, that's the last thing. But when we were more Church going, you had fellowship. You know, you had a, you know, you had a fellowship. You know, you you could go talk to your priest, your pastor. You know, you had elders that you could go to. You know, you had the deacons.
George Pardos [:You had you know? And now we've take you know, Not just with social media, but with lifestyle, we've taken that away from people.
Steve Palmer [:And not only that, it's been replaced with, like, really bad stuff. Like, here, buy more things, get a bigger house, go let go keep up with the Joneses. And, no. I'm with you a 100%. I you
Brett Johnson [:know? Even to your point, maybe Even the the church community is not necessarily the deacons and priests and the and the preachers. It's the people you're sitting within pews. Right? That's your community. That's your support.
Steve Palmer [:Realize that you're not unlike everybody else, and you have a support structure.
Brett Johnson [:It's the after church, donuts and coffee, and you're talking. Right. And Nothing else that that's disappearing.
George Pardos [:And that's what we why we we did the you know, why we do the coffee with coaches. We we get together With you know, to say, hey. We're we're gonna have coffee and donut. And, by the way, the Snow and Fox up at Easton, you know, I mean, not in New Albany. It's they're they got the best cinnamon rolls in Columbus.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, really? I mean,
George Pardos [:I would you know, look. I I know this is bad, but I would kick a toddler over the wall for them. Mean, those things are like they you know, they're better than Cici's cinnamon rolls. Oh my gosh.
Steve Palmer [:So Well, look. A couple things just to wrap it up. You are you guys a five zero one c three? Do you have a Yeah.
George Pardos [:We have a we have a So what
Steve Palmer [:do people do if they're gonna look you up, if they're gonna find more about what you're doing, and or if they even wanna donate to your cause? How do you do it?
George Pardos [:We're on Facebook. We're at, we're at vet Vet Radio Syndicate. We're on Facebook, and then we have, our website is vet vet r s .com. You can look up there. If you the the one thing that like I said, if you want if you want to support of that Or, you know, reach out to us, and we'll put you in the, you know, contact. We've had, like, 15 different nonprofits that we deal with and just say, hey. You know, this is, the the most thing that we say about you know, if you are going to you know, if you want to help veterans, Be an American worth fighting for. You know, just be a better person.
Steve Palmer [:What do you guys say? Now I gotta ask. So thank you for your service. I see a I see some soldiers, or servicemen in a restaurant, and I pay their tab. Like, what what's the what's the what do you guys think of that?
George Pardos [:I I think it's it's great awareness because people that grew up in the eighties and served in there, we had a We had an era with the Vietnam veterans. We really didn't care about them. Mhmm. You know, we had an era that we we really didn't care about. Know.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
George Pardos [:Yeah. Yeah. They didn't even know. And And part of the problem was that, you know, after 911, I I I mean, one of the things that was be more evident because of media, Not just social media, but media in general, they realize what veterans deal I mean, what actual soldiers and marines and all that go through because there's actually footage of it. One of the worst events that ever happened during Vietnam War was, you know, Hue City. So one of the the guys that who's a dear friend of mine, Doug Kirk, was being shot at at the Ohio University campus in Wayne City. And, you know, he had to call you know, he was they were literally stuck there, and they had to call in. He was there for 2 days and couldn't move because, you know, they were pinned down.
George Pardos [:They finally had a group you know, the marines come in and get him out of there. There's no record of it.
Steve Palmer [:There
George Pardos [:there's no there's very little footage of you know, because, there there's there's just very little footage of it because we did have embedded reporters. Asia Valley. If anybody's ever heard about Asia Valley, it's one of the the you know, we had, Twelve SF guys, another 20 support troops took on 1200, Vietcong. There's no record of it. I mean, other than, you know, the reporting of it, there's no video of it. There is GoPro's uploading video from fights in, You know, Fallujah Almost in real time. Yeah. Real time, in, you know, Suave Valley and and all that.
George Pardos [:So One of the things I think became apparent is what our troops are actually going through when they are deployed. And I think that that I think it's better. And I and I think that we realize that, you know, If you take a look at absent of the political, you know, theater that we we're very you know, the Kabuki theater that we're used for politics, If you see a veteran to say thank you, it it means a lot because a lot of them usually don't get you know, especially an older veteran, because they never they never came home to a parade. They never came home to, you know, any recognition whatsoever. They were, you know, a lot of, And everybody thinks about this, but there is instances where, you know, veterans came through through from Vietnam. They got spit on. Yeah. And and that's a No.
George Pardos [:Horrendous. Absolutely horrendous.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. We gotta wrap it up with that. Great show. You know, great. I mean, we could there there's, like, 10 other things I'd love to talk to you about. And, obviously, we'll we'll do our best to bring you back in and and do some more of this. But, you know, as usual, we're Common Sense Ohio. You can check us out at commonsense ohio show.com, our website, where you can catch the backlog of shows.
Steve Palmer [:Or if you just go to wherever you get your Guys, you can check us out there too. We ask everybody to do the same thing. You guys probably do. Please like it and share it because, you know, this kind of stuff grows organically. I believe in the microphone. I believe in the roundtable. We have discussions like this that get out. And, the more you share, if you like it, maybe your your buddy will too.
Steve Palmer [:And lest I forget, before I wrap up with my usual nonsense, George, thank you for your service.
George Pardos [:No. Thank you for your support.
Brett Johnson [:Thank you.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And what you're doing. I mean, phenomenal. So, Anyway, Common Sense IO coming at you right from the middle at least until now.
