Karen Wilson invites Loreto Cheyne of Lola Designs to the show. Loreto is a graphic and brand designer by trade, but the pandemic afforded her the opportunity to pivot her business into her true passion – building connections through greeting cards. 

Through fun designs, sassy sayings, and her own unique touch, Loreto’s greeting cards have not only given her business a new sense of purpose but have brought joy into the lives of her friends, family and her growing client base.  

In this episode, Karen finds out the story behind Loreto’s business and how much personal fulfillment she gets from designing cards. Loreto shares how the art of sending a greeting card never goes out of style and reveals how the tangible gesture of cards becomes additionally meaningful in this digital age.

About Loreto Cheyne:

Loreto Cheyne is a graphic designer specializing in greeting card design which she creates through her company, Lola Design.

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

• Lola Design Greeting Cards
• Brené Brown: “Creating Transformative Cultures”
• “Everything Is Figureoutable” by Marie Forleo
• Sue B. Zimmerman
• Anna Epp Photography: 50 Over 50 Project
• “Find Your Why” by Simon Sinek

___

Karen Wilson | podcast host / Karen C. Wilson Consulting: website | linkedin | facebook

Loreto Cheyne | graphic designer: website | instagram | facebook 

Hello and welcome to the Small but Mighty Biz Stories podcast. Where we talk about the inspiration and motivation behind your small business. Here’s your host, Karen Wilson.

Karen Wilson: Today I’m here with Loreto Cheyne and she’s going to take it away now and introduce herself.

Loreto Cheyne: Hi Karen. Thank you for having me today. It's a pleasure to be here. It's a nice rainy day, but it's always a good time to talk about business, which in my case, thanks to COVID it has been one of those pivot “air quote” moments.

Karen: Yeah.

Loreto: I hate that word pivot but that's exactly what happened. So, thank you for letting me chat today.

Karen: Yeah, well tell us about what you do? You've been doing graphic design and brand work for a number of years. How did - what got you started in that area, that profession?

Loreto: Oh man, you're asking all the hard questions because everything's a long story now. Okay, how do I spin this. The short story is I went to university, and I was going to be a psychologist originally. That didn't work out. And I ended up taking a year off to work and then a year after that to travel. So, when I came back, I did some psychological testing at University of Ottawa where the testings revealed that graphic design would be the job best suited to me. So, then I took some more time to prepare a portfolio and then I got into the best school in Canada and here we are!

Karen: Amazing. So, tell me after you do one of those exams and I think a lot of people have, I know I remember doing them and I wanted to be a lawyer and so they actually kind of confirmed that direction and yet it didn't really feel right when I took steps to go. Even though I have an interest in certain things like that, the law, politics, things like that. It still wasn't something that lit me up inside. So how was it when you started actually doing graphic design work?

Loreto: I remember when I got the results. So, they give you three choices that would be your best career choice. I remember that's the only one that stuck out in my mind because ever since I was a kid I had been interested in art, visual arts and creating all kinds of things. But my thing was that I don't do well with, you know, “I'm just going to sit here and create something beautiful today.” I need a practical goal to work towards so this for me was perfect and I knew that I'd be able to create something beautiful but useful. So, it wouldn't be a sculpture that just sits there and it’s beautiful. This is actually, you know, made for marketing and advertising, which in my mind still fulfills my need to create. So that's the only thing that I remember thinking, “Hey, this could work for me.”

Karen: Yeah, so having that creative direction or being able to take the ideas and the input that your clients give to you and then turn that into something for them that meets their needs. That's where you really get the drive?

Loreto: It does and the funny thing, Karen, is that doing those 3 years at Ottawa U with the psychology program - it was really useful because it helps you understand people more, see where they're coming from, and their mindset. Without a doubt. People say to me, most often, is you took what was inside my head and you made it visual. And I can't tell you what a big compliment that is. It's just one of the nicest things that I get to hear in my working life.

Karen: Yeah, I feel like in most professions, we'd benefit from a really, you know, at least a basic understanding of psychology because we're all driven by various things and it's all in that psyche and we can understand so much more about each other and what is going on behind. I like to say that the most important question to ask in marketing is why.

Loreto: Oh my God, without a doubt. In the marketing work that you do I do something similar with clients. There's a questionnaire and one of the questions that I ask people inevitably (well there is two), what is your goal for this project and what do you want this logo? And if people tell me,” Oh it's because everybody says I should have one that's not a good answer. That's just not a good answer there. There has to be a reason why you're paying me to do this for you.

Karen: Yeah. There's this The 5 Whys where someone says a statement and then you ask, why? And they say because and then you ask why again and then ‘because’ and it's supposed to help you dig into the root and I just love that approach. It's not…I did it to my son the other day and it threw him off. Because I didn't tell him what I was doing. It's much. It's not a very nice thing to do if they're not expecting it because you're not doing that deeper thinking you're they just like, “I Just told you why.”

Loreto: Yeah, and it's funny I'm waiting to follow up with a client. We're starting branding work and that's one of the things I gave her my whole booklet and I said look you need to go through this take your time and then we're going to go through the questions one-by-one because I need to know where your mind is at, and I need to know where we're going. And the questions are meant to start that digging process. I have never heard it being called the 5 Whys but that's exactly where we go. So, when the client comes up to me and says I need a logo because I'm starting a new business and I have a new business partner. okay, that's a top layer. Then we need to go down and ask why do you need that? Oh, because recognition. And why do you need recognition? Well because I need to attract a broader base. And why do you need a broader base? Well because I'm expecting I would like to sell my business in 20 years… and there it is. But it takes a minute to get there and like you said when you go at people cold, it's very jarring. So, you have to get them into that “we're going to go deeper.” We're going to really explore the reasons for this branding work.

Karen: Yeah, and when someone says because someone told me that I needed this. That's a really superficial layer and it's not necessarily a wrong answer. It's just not a complete answer and it's not even necessarily the real answer. It's just the very top layer of what's going on and with branding in particular, it's significant investment in time and money to build this whole identity for a business.

Loreto: Yep, and you know what else that people sometimes don't realize is that it's also an emotional investment because you're spending time telling me a lot of personal stuff. Because I need to know that in order to create something that will represent you accurately so that in turn you will attract the clients that you want. I think we're at a stage, thankfully, where people no longer think that branding is like a coat that you put on in the morning from nine to five and then take off at night. Branding is who you are, and you have to be who you are. You can't just put on a persona because that's fake and no one likes that and let's face it, the internet has made everybody very marketing savvy.

Karen: Yeah, yeah, and in a way it's kind of sad because things that we share about our lives and each other, tend to have that tinge of marketing in them. You’re showing the side that you want to show as opposed to a more full picture of what's going on and I'm guilty of it too. I think that there's of course not a need for full transparency. But there is something about holding back every moment that's challenging that can lead to a lot of misconceptions about what your life is like.

Loreto: And in you know, don't forget, there's also the issue of privacy. Do we need to know everything about your life to get to know you and trust you and do business with you? No. I know some personal things about you that you've chosen to share. But that's because it was a choice. I think one of the things about social media that's been kind of like a thorn in my side for the past two years during the pandemic - it's been this whole grand gestures thing. It makes me nuts because everybody is posting and looking for that grand moment. You know, “Oh I want to be proposed to at midnight on New Year’s Eve, when everyone's watching, then I can post it on Instagram!” Like, who cares? The one thing that I've learned in this new line of work that I'm doing and through the pandemic and you know, I'm sure people, not everybody will agree with me, is that everything is about the little things. All that matters is those little things. Not those big magical Megatron moments. They're not. So, for me and that's what I'm taking with me into the next phase of business.

Karen: It's a big deal. I love typography. We have great conversations about typography at times.

Loreto: So, for a few years I'd been creating artwork based on typography. So, my artwork doesn't have pictures. It has letters. Now there are things that they're also funny so there is a method to the madness. So, I thought a lot of the things that I'd posted online to make people laugh would have made a great card and that's when it hit me. This would have been the perfect time to have those ready. So, I thought about it and originally, I thought this would be a five-year project and it turns out that it only took ten months. So, with the encouragement of two people I was able to get that going much much faster than I anticipated. And I'm very grateful for them and later on I'll tell you a little bit more about the inspiration behind ah the whole greeting card thing but suffice it to say that COVID was the moving force behind me actually saying, “Okay, this is this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.” Because this is what makes me happy. These cards are funny. They are nice. They're great quality, but really what I wanted to do, and it was a very specific thing is that I wanted to provide women with a tool to connect with each other when they're busy and when they're far apart and this would have been the perfect time for it. So little late to the party but there it is.

Karen: Yeah, and it's one of those things that I think is so important. We, you know I know that people are relying on snail mail a lot less, but when you do get those occasional pieces of mail that are coming from somebody that you know personally, oh my goodness, it makes such a big difference. You get excited to open those.

Loreto: You do. And you know that during the pandemic we've all had a lot of virtual coffee dates and inevitably somebody will pull out a card that they want to show me or even a little post-it. Their best friend or their husband or their mother-in-law or someone wrote to them because it meant so much to them that they've kept it. And they keep it hanging there, that little written piece because it just delighted them so much and I do the same thing you know all over my office. You can't see it, but I have things that people have given me that have come in the mail because they're so precious because few people take the time to actually write that when you see what somebody else's handwriting looks like it's like you're getting a whole insight into their personality. Ah, well at least I think so.

Karen: It's true. It's so true and they've taken the time to personally write it and that makes such a difference.

Loreto: It does. There is this, I’m a huge fan of Brene Brown and she had an interview, I forget who the interviewee was, but I need to dig it up because she had the best quote ever. She said how do you spell time? How do you spell love? T-I-M-E. And that's totally true because when you write a card to someone that's literally what you're giving them. You're giving them your love. You're giving them your time, which for the most part in our adult life has been in short supply. That and laughter.

Karen: Yeah, and it's true, which is the other part of the work that you're doing. So, let's talk about these card designs and some of the sassy that comes into them.

Everyone knows there's been countless research done on the fact that female friendships are an incredible bond and that's what I want women to… these cards are aimed at women. Some men have bought them, but they really are aimed at women. Thing is that it's meant to make you see yourself in them and see your friend in there and go, “Hey I thought of you. I miss you.” So, that's the whole idea.

Karen: Yeah, the content that you produced with these cards is very Canada focused. There's a…

Loreto: Yes, are you talking about the pickle?

Karen: The pickle. Ah yes, the pickle. Now we're definitely going to have to include some pictures on the website for this.

Loreto: We are. That was a hit at the graph show. Okay, people laughed at it.

Karen: That's awesome. Yeah, you were just at a craft show this past weekend at Carlingwood Mall. It was Carlingwood, right?

Loreto: Yes, it was Carlingwood. You know, inevitably people look at the pickle and then they get it, and they laugh and if they don't get it, I have to explain it in sanitized language, which is challenging sometimes with a specific card. You know, I have to tell you a funny story and I feel really bad because it was the end of the day and I was busy with another customer and this one woman came up and said, “Oh you have greeting cards!” And I said yes, she said, “Oh do you have sympathy cards” And I looked at her and I went sorry no, it's either Christmas or profanity. Let me back up a bit. I need to explain that one of the packages that I was selling is called the profanity package. So again, there was a lot of symbols standing in for the actual words, which again is meant to make you laugh. So yes, I think we should include some pictures. Make it more obvious.

Karen: Yes, well, it's I think that we've gotten to a point now where the laughter is so necessary. Because things have been heavy and weighing on so many people and anything that can make you laugh and also allows that meaningful connection is so important. I was thinking as you were talking that the difference between sending a text or a message of some sort electronically that means something for sure. But there's a million other things that are pulling your attention in different directions when we're staring at a screen. If you're writing a card to someone, you're putting your undivided attention in it.

Loreto: Undivided. It takes two minutes, and I am going to record a reel for Instagram on how long it actually takes to pick up the card, write it and go put it in the mailbox. It's not that long, but it's a focus. Attention that you have on that one person. So really, how do you spell love? T-I-M-E. That's really what it all boils down to.

Karen: Yeah, and it doesn't take that much time. I was having a discussion about this recently and just talking with other business owners about that idea of taking intentional steps to create those connections because we as business owners, we're nurturing our audience in a number of ways. We're helping them learn more about what we do, we're sharing our expertise. So that they know better how to hire someone, whether it's me or someone else and then we are nurturing a relationship with them building that trust. And then, if we take steps to make that meaningful connection it goes so much further to build trust and to and to build that bridge where they actually want to work with you. And that's such a…it almost sounds like it's a manipulative thing but it's a different thing when I talk to small business owners, especially solopreneurs. We have such passion for the work that we do. I mean, when I have heard you talk about the cards and what you're doing, you get so excited, and you just light up about it.

Loreto: Yeah, I think what you mentioned there about being intentional. That's also a word. That's come up and it's become one of those catch phrases recently. But there's a good reason for it because I think…I hate talking about this stuff because it's true and a lot of people don't like to talk about the pandemic anymore because you know “it's over.” But the thing is that you come to a point in your business when you have the time to sit and think about what is it that I really want to do here. And I remember the work that you and I did this summer. What is it that I'm really passionate about? What is it that I'm trying to do? And my whole thing is about connection. That's a thing that as a human being makes me want to get up in the morning. And how do I do that? Well, I have created this tool. So, when you say that it's manipulative, yes, and no. I agree because all the content that you and I put out is geared to a very specific end.

While we're on the journey I've discovered that some of the stuff that I've revealed has turned out to be really personal because I'm trying to draw the connection between what I do and the connection between people. So, some of the stories that I've shared have been pretty painful actually. And people have responded amazingly. I posted a quote by Mary Kay Ash. She says something like people literally have a sign around their neck that says make me feel important. And I posted a short story about how somebody in my field made me feel awful and why that happened. And the whole response around that was amazing and people are still talking to me about it. It's like yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do. Make people feel important. I'm going to make that a big sign in my office. You have to understand what's important to you and then pursue that and in my life, that's connecting with other people, making them laugh, making them have a little bit of a break. It's a pretty sad day when you realize you haven't laughed all day, you know. And that’s happened.

Karen: Yeah, and there's a real vulnerability to having a business and putting yourself out there. And so even if you are taking intentional steps to build those connections, it’s because you wouldn't do that if you didn't care about what you do and want to make a difference for someone else.

Karen: It's interesting because as small as our world's got with the pandemic, you know, we did, there were some things that opened up in the world that we didn't have, you know? One of the things that I like to think about is how many people who wanted to have the option of virtual because of disabilities and then all of the sudden that becomes available. And I dearly hope that we don't lose that accommodation for people who need it because their world opened up in ways that we need to, we need to keep open. And so that idea of figuring out what's important and letting that drive not only your business decisions, as you have because you're now pivoting into this new world of a product-based business instead of strictly service-based.

Loreto: Oh my God though. Yeah, that's been an eyeopener. Oh my God. Just figuring out Canada Post rates and shipping. That’s its own challenge right there.

Karen: It's very different.

Loreto: I know. It's funny because my husband asked me how did you do? The crafts sale did you at least break even? And I said I'm more than broke even and then he said, “Okay, how do you know?” Well, then I pulled out all my notes. Okay, well this is how much this cost. This is how much this cost here, here, there and then I thought about the amount of work and that goes into switching from a service base to a product-based business. I mean I had to open up my new location down in the basement you know, well for inventory. So, yeah, the learning hopefully never ends you know?

Karen: Yeah, I know that keeps things interesting and exciting, but hopefully doesn't add too many struggles especially when it comes to Canada Post rates.

Loreto: No, you know what? When I first started eleven months ago, I got this pretty little notebook which is right here, which is where I'm going to write all of my business notes all the stuff, I'm learning okay and one of my very ridiculously good ideas.

Karen: Oh yes, ridiculously good ideas.

Loreto: So, one of my very first notes was: remember baby steps. You can't do everything at once. And the thing that I've reminded myself of pretty much every day is that. So far, my record for completing the task that I time myself has been 100 percent. I may have taken longer than I thought, but so far, I've been able to do everything I wanted. I've learned everything that I needed to so far, not done yet. But yeah, everything has been done only in eleven months and even so, all this all the new stuff that I've had to do all the new things that have had to get used has been amazing and I wouldn't change it for anything.

Karen: That's great. That's really great. So, talk a little bit about what you've done to support this change in your business because you've… it is very different to move from a service business to product. So, what are some of the, beyond the logistics and pricing tangible things, what did you mentally have to think about differently in your business?

Loreto: I think two things. The first thing, which was a very big challenge for me was to ask for help. Because traditionally as a graphic designer I didn't want to. Especially with the WBN website, I didn't want to ask things because even as a business owner I didn't have the answers. To me that was very frightening because you know you don't want people to judge you. So, the first thing I learned here was to ask for help. I have no idea how to deal with taxes, shipping, selling my stuff at stores, a craft sale. I had none of that, so I had to ask for a lot of help from a lot of different people. And the second one was that I had to open up my mind to the possibilities and stop thinking about just this localized thing. My end goal is to sell across Canada. I don't want to target any other countries and I have specific reasons for that. But I, for the first time, I have big plans and big dreams and big ambition, which letting yourself develop that mindset that it is possible… that was a shifting moment. You know.

I happened to buy Marie Forleo’s book Everything is Figureoutable. Well, that was a big catalyst for that. She, you know when I read her stories, like gee if she can do that at age 23 maybe I can do it my age too. So, just allowing myself to dream big and say this is eventually what I want to work to.

Karen: I recently saw, and someone shared an article with me that the average age of a Startup entrepreneur is like 49, which is not what most people think. Because you see the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world and so it’s actually people are, you know, in their prime – older than we think of. And we need to stop thinking of success as something that happens when you're young and then you just sort of coast along for the rest of life because life doesn't end at 40 or 50. I mean we've got a lot more living to do.

Loreto: We have a lot more to go. The other thing that was very inspiring is that there's a woman on Instagram who is the Instagram expert. Her name is Sue B. Zimmerman and the research she started, teaching Instagram stuff is because she was in her late 40s when she said, “Okay I'm going to figure this out. And it's not that you are not too old to start a business and to sell on Instagram if you're 48 or 49 – you are not. I am living proof.” And I went okay, she can do it. You know, so can I.

Karen: Yep, absolutely we all can. And it's funny because there's the “forty under forty,” but I love that we have a woman here in Ottawa who's doing the “50 over Fifty.” Miss Ann Epp, photographer is doing this, and I love it because it just shows that, you know women in particular, we come into our own when we come into our own and that's not necessarily at 35.

Loreto: The only thing that I wish that I had when I was 35 is my energy level, that's about it. But yeah, other than that, no. Because I often told people when there's too much going on and I have too much to do and whoa hold it I'm not 35 anymore!

Karen: And I and I think there's something good about you know, the energy level being maybe different or at least your boundaries being different. We have the, you know, as I remember from turning 40 or even in my late 30s, I was starting to be a lot more firm in my boundaries and then you know it, you just get better about it every year of life. You just you start to say, “Okay, no I'm not going to put up with that shit anymore.”

Karen: Yeah, and that's the thing is most people are quite fine with the boundaries we set. I mean the ones who aren't exist but when we say what we need and why we need it, people tend to respond well to that. We just don't necessarily have that ingrained in us that we should.

Loreto: That we should. That’s going to be my next card: “should” worst f-word ever. Totally different conversation. But that was another thing about pandemic living. I think a lot of people learned that there were times when we had to protect our mental space and there were times when I'm like no. Today I'm not adulting. Today is going to be a Netflix vacation because I just couldn't. And when people said that to me, I had to respect that as well. It's like, you know, somebody would say to me. “No, you know what, I can't attend that Zoom today. I'm not in a good headspace.” No problem. It's like, “I'm sorry I'm not responding to emails today.” Okay, not a problem. We’ll pick it up again.

Karen: Yeah, I think that is a shift that I see, especially women making, and it's so important because we don't state our needs nearly so often and I think that the screaming internally of what we need has gotten so loud that we can't ignore it anymore.

Loreto: It's coming out in me now. It's coming out and I find myself saying both to my husband and family members and friends. “Nope, I can’t make it to that outing today. I'm depleted. I need to sit in my backyard and do nothing.” It's like nope. Not cooking today because I'm tired of cooking. It’s like, nope. I’m cancelling family dinner this Sunday because I'm just tired.

Karen: Yeah. It's a good change for society. We're not only discovering what is most meaningful to us. We're simplifying, but we're also setting our boundaries. And we're not afraid to say you know at the last moment, “this just isn't going to work out like we expected.”

Loreto: Yep, there were days when my husband would say you know what I know we made plans to go to dinner with your family, but I can’t. Yep, and last week we were making Christmas adventure plans with the extended family, and everybody knows my husband won't attend because that's not his thing. So, then everybody's egging my sister on, “oh, come on you want to do it, come on. You got to come with us!” And finally, she said, “Look how come her husband gets a pass? can't I get a pass? And we all just went, “Yeah, you do. Okay, you're out of the list.” So, it's a word that's come up a lot this past year – grace. Giving people grace and I think that personally I feel that it's been a lot of good things. Stating your needs. Staying firm with your boundaries and I think traditionally we have not been good at it at all, you know.

Karen: No and almost worse with ourselves than with others. Not even almost. We're definitely worse with ourselves than others. And I talk about that a lot with, you know, my good friends. I say I need to give myself grace and stop saying I should do this I should do that and just say I can't do that today. I need to do – give attention to this other need and this can wait. This other thing can wait or it's just not important right now and that grace we give ourselves becomes I think especially important as a business owner because we set goals for ourselves. And you mentioned earlier that you've got a hundred percent completion rate for all the things that you needed to do and get to know over this time, but not everything happened in the timeframe you wanted it to. So do you beat yourself up over that? Some of us do but you shouldn't. Give yourself grace. There's other things going on. Priorities shift. They change. It has to! We have to be flexible, and the biggest thing is I'm the boss I get to decide what the deadlines are.

Loreto: That's why I have a card which is the lovely purple color on your wall, this is you are the boss of you. You look to defy, and I think one of the best things about being our age and going through this whole pandemic perhaps is that not only have we realized what's important to us, what our boundaries are, but the fact that we no longer feel bad about stuff. I don't feel guilty about anything. Your priorities, again, are not mine, which doesn't make me a bad person either. That's just not my priority. So, I don't feel bad when I say no to something anymore. And by the same token when people turn me down it no longer weighs on my mind either because I'm not their priority and that's okay. That used to be like oh, they must hate me. Oh God. Now it's like, it wasn't in the cards. You know?

Karen: Yeah, and what is interesting to me about this is that you have shifted your business into something that in all honesty is going to require extra work and the return that you get from clients, obviously you can't charge the same for a pack of cards that you would for a brand design, but the drive that you have is all about this intention. There's such a connection to where you're coming from, the motivation behind it and what you're doing with it. And that's really quite amazing when you think about it.

Loreto: It is and it's surprising to me. I've always loved my work and I always give my clients a hundred percent if not more, that's a given. But interestingly the amount of enjoyment that I get from both creating the cards and getting feedback from new clients, it just fills me up with a joy that my other graphic design work doesn't. Because I'm in a different headspace now. I love the graphic design. I love the branding work, but this is different. This is, look, it just speaks to my purpose, I think. Which is again, don't want to get too personal because you know I have to save some for me, but it's been interesting.

Karen: Yeah, and I can see why that would be so fulfilling because as you are creating these designs and you know, a lot of them are funny and they are amusing. I mean one of your Christmas card designs or holiday card designs was just beautiful.

Loreto: Yeah, and well I know the one you're talking about because it's one of my favorites but it's so unlike the others. Yeah.

Karen: Yeah, and that's the thing is as you're creating these pieces you get to imagine that person receiving it on the other end and it's not just one, it's you know. 50, 100, 200 people who get to experience the joy. It's a multiplication of the joy you get in creating it and that's a really cool thing to enable in your business.

Loreto: Thanks Karen. You just painted a really great picture in my mind. Thank you.

Karen: That's good. Ah, that's good. Yeah, and it only came to me as you were describing and I thought it just makes sense that, you know, you're driven to make connections and you’ve always been that way.

Loreto: Yeah, but it wasn't obvious to me like it was never obvious. Until I sat down and thought about it and really spent some time digging. You know the five Why’s. Yeah

Karen: Yeah. I mean it's kind of like the Simon Sinek, Find your why? connection is a thread that that you can probably identify through everything you've ever done. And it's just it looks different in each thing but it's still there.

Loreto: It does. But if I can kind of circle back, I told you I would talk about my best friend. I finally… it became clear to me one day and I did have to ask her for permission if I could share this story because I wrote a blog post maybe two months ago about why the card business really started, and the reality is that I started writing letters decades ago in cards. But the card specifically is because my best friend and I needed to keep in touch because I moved away when I was seventeen. And yet we've been friends for 35 years. So that's where it all started. So, I have to thank her for inspiring this and she makes it her business to find the funniest cards. Okay, if I kept them. Like one of my favorite ones is the Christmas card she sent me two years ago it says, “my presence is present enough” Like that's true and are you that.

Karen: Oh, that's good. I like it. I think that's so good when anybody has people around who inspire you and I know you well enough that I know a lot of the same people who do inspire you and push you and that you're you have those connections with. And that is a beautiful thing because we need those people that push us because I know that there was one person in particular who kind of pushed you into this and what did they say?

Loreto: She looked at me and he said, “when are you going to stop talking about it and start doing it?” You know I have yet to thank her for that, but she deserves a big grand gesture moment, I think.

Karen: Oh, maybe you could share the podcast with her?

Loreto: But yeah, what that tells you when somebody pushes you like that? You eventually realize is that they believe in you, and they believe in the product. If they didn't, they wouldn't have said that - just the way she looked to me, “When are you going to stop talking about it?”

Karen: I know, and we so need those people that honesty and the feedback that is truly a gift. The push we need to stop talking and just get it done. You feel strongly about this thing, just get it done.

Loreto: I feel terrible about honesty as well. So yeah, so people often tell me that my middle name should be “tell me how you really feel.” And I think that reflects in the cards sometimes. They're a little, you know, the jab at you, but don't worry, there's going to be…the cards that I'm creating I have like a vast array of ideas. I actually have a whole shelf full of jotted down and sketched ideas. They're not just going to be funny and sarcastic. There's also going to be a lot of inspirational moments. I did some work with a friend a few years ago, the project never got used, but the content is there. The design is there so that's going to come out at one point or another. I'm just surprised that buddy the elf made an appearance this year because I wasn't expecting that I would be putting them out so soon, but here we are.

Karen: Yeah, well it's exciting times for you and your business and so tell us, tell everyone how they can check out your cards. I mean obviously I'm going to share some photos in the post. So, people who are following along can actually check out what we're referring to but tell us how to find your cards and follow you.

Loreto: Okay, the easiest thing to do if you want to check out the cards themselves you go to LolaDesign.ca and at the very top in the navigation bar, click on greeting cards that takes you to the entire selling section, so you will see the tiles of all the different cards and packages that are available. The packages are sold in units of five. There's no single items because it doesn't make sense to charge you shipping for sending one card out. So, it's always in sets of five. The other thing you can do if you like is check out my Instagram feed. I'm at @loladesignott because that's where I share most of the ideas, the posts, the products that are available and why and also a lot of the stories that drive the products.

Karen: Yeah, it’s a true peak behind the curtain of Lola Design and Loreto Cheyne.

Loreto: Oh yes, so you can go to the website, or you can check out my Instagram page and follow me there. You can order from the website; the Instagram profile does have a link to the yeah to my Shopify website. But yeah. You can always send me a message and I'll be happy to respond.

Karen: Fantastic. And of course, I will include links to all of these things and ways for people to follow you in the podcast. Notes because so we want to make sure people get a chance to check out the work that you're doing and buy some cards. Send some cards to some friends you haven't talked to in a while. It's actually something…I don't know if you would have seen my email yet, but that's actually something I told my audience to do yesterday in an email I sent out. It was, you know, whittle down your Christmas card list so that you can write personal notes to everybody. Don't just sign your name to a card with a message on it because we don't need to have a list of hundreds. We can just pair it down to something that's meaningful and then we save some paper.

Loreto: Not only that. But here's another fun thing you can do, when you're writing your Christmas cards set aside an hour and go to Starbucks or your Second Cup or your favorite coffee shop, there are some very good ones in Ottawa, buy yourself a latte and sit there and write them some cards. You'll be surprised at how enjoyable a task that is because I do that every year. I don't get them all done, but it's a break, you get to have coffee, which in my world is always a win and you get to do something nice for someone else as well.

Karen: It’s a change of scenery. Yeah, that's a great idea too and I think that with the holidays, obviously this is coming out after the holidays, I think we don't do this often enough throughout the rest of the year. And I decided this year that I'm not going to send holiday cards. I'm going to send cards in the new year so that I can.

Loreto: Perfect! You do whatever you like.

Karen: I want it to be at a time when everybody else isn't doing it because why should I do it when someone is going to have billions of other cards floating around and mine is just one of a bunch.

Loreto: Yeah, and you know what? The bottom line is you have to find what works for you if it’s the new year, then that's great! I'm sending out Christmas, for International Women's Day March 8th next year, because there's an awful lot of women out there who've helped me in the past two years to get this thing off the ground and I wouldn't be here without their support. So that's what I'll be doing.

Karen: That's a great idea too. That's a fantastic idea. Well, thank you Loreto for sharing your story and sharing so many of your thoughts around making those meaningful connections. And I hope everybody goes and checks out your card collection because they are fun, and they are meaningful, and I know that you're just going to keep growing that amazingness. So, thanks for joining us today. Absolutely.

Loreto: Thank you so much for having me, Karen.