Dr. Peter Weinstein, veterinarian and independent ownership advocate, joins Dr. Andy Roark to explore why more veterinarians are choosing to own their practices and step away from corporate structures. They break down the resurgence of independent veterinary practice ownership, including the financial realities, student debt concerns, and the desire for autonomy and purpose driving this shift. If you’ve ever wondered whether owning a veterinary practice is still possible or worth it, this episode will challenge your assumptions. Gang, let’s get into this episode.

Dr Peter Weinstein is a husband, father, pet parent, veterinarian and leader. He has been involved with virtually all aspects of veterinary practice from a 15-year-old kennel kid to a hospital owner. Organized veterinary medicine has been a passion as well with various roles and leadership and presidencies of Southern California VMA, California VMA, and Vet Partners. He is a published author, most notably of the E-Myth Veterinarian-Why Most Veterinary Practices Don’t Work and What to Do About It.

Currently, he is teaching business and finance at the Veterinary College of Western University of Health Sciences. He likes to think of himself as a free-thinking change agent and disruptor who, because he has a daughter who is a recent graduate from veterinary school, is working for an even better veterinary profession in the future.

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Welcome everybody to the Code of Shame Veterinary podcast.

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I am your host, Dr.

3

Andy Rourke.

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Guys, I am back with my friend Dr.

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Peter Weinstein, and we are talking

about the resurgence, the return, if you

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will, the independent practice owners.

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That's right.

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The independent practice

owners strike back.

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Maybe I'll go with that.

10

, that's not a bad title.

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I don't even, I like that.

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They might, you might see that.

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Anyway, guys, , I am here with the one and

only Peter Weinstein, to talk about what

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I'm seeing anecdotally as a significant

upswing in the number of veterinarians

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that are gonna own their own business.

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And it has been, , it's been striking.

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This has been one of the.

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Big trends for me in 2026 already that

I had heard that we were gonna see

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more independent practice owners, and

I heard people talking about it behind

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the scenes, and all of a sudden, guys,

I can tell you it's here, there's

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people, I'm just bumping into 'em

all over the place who are opening a

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practice in 10 days, opening 30 days.

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Getting their loans, , lined up.

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We opened at the beginning of the year and

just, boy, there feels like a really big

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upswing in independent practice owners.

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And I just, the conversations I'm

having are numerous and enthusiastic

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about independent ownership.

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And so guys, I've got the one and only Dr.

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Peter Weinstein here.

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He's the one who called it from me.

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He was the first one I heard

saying, uh, probably years ago.

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This is coming, Andy, get ready.

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Like the independent practice

owners are coming back.

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And I said, uh, I hope so.

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We'll see.

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And , I'm a big fan of

independent ownership.

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I, I want it to be a viable pathway

for veterinarians , and Peter's really

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championing that and beating the drum.

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So guys, , independent practice

owners, are they really coming back?

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And if so, why?

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And if so, how?

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So that's what we're into, gang.

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Let's get into this episode.

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Kelsey Beth Carpenter: This is your show.

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We're glad you're here.

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We want to help you in

your veterinary career.

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Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr.

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Andy Roark.

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Andy: Welcome to the podcast Dr.

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Peter Weinstein.

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How are you, my friend?

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Peter: Dr.

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Rourke always a pleasure to

be with you and to see you.

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I remember when you weren't even shaving.

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Um.

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Andy: it's felt like that,

that's not saying a lot.

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I, it was a very late

start in the shaving.

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I, I can, I could get away with a

couple of days at a time right now.

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Peter, for those who don't know

you, you are a, , veterinarian.

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You are a one of the premier thought

leaders in veterinary medicine.

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You are a mentor of mine.

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You are one of my favorite people

to spar with and talk with.

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And, , there's a, a day does not

go by that you and I are in the

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same geographic location that

I do not say let's have lunch.

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, and so I, I get as much of your

time as I can just because I

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think that you are so smart and.

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For our topic today, you also have really

led the charge in a lot of ways in what

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I recall, what I'm calling the resurgence

of the independent veterinary practice.

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And so you have been talking about this,

you have been beating the drum for it.

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You have opened up sort of your

doors to welcome the people who are

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interested in starting independent

practices back in and to try to, help.

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Pave the way for them and support them.

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And so you've just done so much in

this regard, and so that's who you are.

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when I passed by you in Orlando and, , we

only had a moment to talk and it was

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coming to the end of the VMX conference,

I walked past you and I said to you, Hey,

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independent practice ownership resurgence.

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Are you still in on this?

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do you still buy this?

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And you said to me, yes.

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Now more than ever, and I will say between

then and now, I have become a, a believer.

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I, so I, I have been shocked.

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So Peter, I have recently

had so many interactions.

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With veterinarians who are a month

out from opening their practice

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who are 10 days out from opening

their practice, who are they?

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They have gotten the loan.

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They are, you know,

working with the broker.

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And it's just, I anecdotally, it has been

a huge upswing and I haven't been pushing

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to try, I haven't done anything to talk

to future or soon to be practice owners.

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They just continue to come.

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To me and I, I, I continue to find

them and it, it's really fascinating.

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I had this interaction where I was

working with someone who was a medical

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director, and this was just out in public.

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It wasn't, you know, anything like that.

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But I was talking to this person

who was out in public and they were

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a medical director and they were

having some real frustration with the

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organization that they were in, and

these two other people were there.

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And one of 'em said, I'm sorry, I

don't mean to butt in, but, I used

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to feel the same way that you did,

and then I went and started my

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own practice and boy, is it hard.

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but I love it.

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And the other guy goes, I

also have a practice owner.

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And he said, I make a lot of

mistakes, but they're my mistakes.

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And that's really great.

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And it was just funny to have this

sort of happen and the medical director

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kind of looked at them and, you

know, she was like, you know what?

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Well, you know, thank thanks guys.

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I, you know, and, and I don't,

know that she was swept up into

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independent practice ownership.

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And I don't know that she should be.

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But it was just, it's been a long time

since two single vet practice owners were

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like, Hey, other people should do this.

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And so I was kind of surprised by that.

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Peter.

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Why you said you were more in on

this resurgence of the independent

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practice owner than you have ever been.

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Why?

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Why is it, why is this happening?

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Why do you think that we're going to

see a, continued interest in independent

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practice ownership when a year and a

half ago, it felt like all the wind

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was going in the other direction?

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Peter: Well, thank you

for the great lead in.

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I don't know if I need to say

anything further because you've

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done a marvelous job of setting

the stage from that standpoint.

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, I think independent practice owners

are going through a renaissance.

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, because there seems to be a

dissatisfaction with the status quo.

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I think the status quo is 30% of

the veterinary hospitals are owned

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by baby boomers and older, and

25% of the non of the co of the

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hospitals are owned by corporation.

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So that leaves more than 50%

that are younger practices.

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And I, I think many of the

associates are working in.

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Four baby boomers who maybe haven't

set their practice up for sale.

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And when you walk work in a corporate

environment, you don't have equity

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opportunities that are there.

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So I think those are

some of the discussions.

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I think the other thing is student debt.

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Student debt has become burden.

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I think it contributes dramatically to

our, , wellness issues, mental health

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issues, because it just weighs on

us, , not me personally, but it weighs

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on veterinarians, , dramatically in

terms of their ability to sustain , and

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figure out ways to retire that debt.

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Well, statistically, and I, and I like

to make a jest that you as an associate,

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you pay your bills as an owner, you

pay your daughter's vet school tuition.

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Andy: Gotcha.

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Okay.

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Peter: As I have a daughter

who's a veterinarian, the equity

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opportunities that are there, , the

building of something that's

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yours, that's your vision.

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The opportunity , to help

others become successful.

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As your veterinary practice team, the

ability to have a voice and contribute to

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the community, the ability to determine

your own schedule, the ability to own

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something that is growing in your image.

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All of these things are very

exciting for a generation.

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The Gen Zs and the Gen Ys,

especially the Gen Zs, who will

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work for a purpose over a profit.

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They wanna build a business or work

for a business that is going to make

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a difference in the community, and

they want to make sure that they

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contribute and have a voice to do so.

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They want a why that leads the way, not

a profit and loss that leads the way.

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Ultimately, the profit and

loss is extremely important.

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I do think , we've seen an even

an uptick of specialists who have

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gone out on their own and started

independent practices as well.

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Andy: Yeah.

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Peter: I think after a

while, veterinarians.

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Let's go back generationally.

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Veterinarians have always been independent

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Andy: Okay.

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Yes, I believe that.

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Peter: because if we wanna look

at it from a genetic standpoint,

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we had to do well in high school.

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Well, how do you do well in high school?

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It's not by partying Friday night.

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It's by going to the library

by yourself and studying.

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So you can do well in the test next week.

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And then you had to do

well as an undergrad.

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Same story.

176

Yes.

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I was part of a fraternity.

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No, I don't remember most of the parties

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Andy: I'm glad we're

getting back to reality.

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That I remember.

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Right.

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Peter: Yeah.

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And then ultimately to get through

veterinary school, you do it by yourself.

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Most of the curriculum is

taught and tested ultimately

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through the NLI one-on-one.

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So we're independent

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Andy: Okay.

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Peter: and then we come out and we're

being put into an environment that

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we have to work for somebody else.

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And so I think ultimately when the

independence starts to come out, we

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wanna build a team around us that works

in our image, because for the prior 20.

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15 years or so, we've

been controlled by others.

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So I, I think there's an opportunity

in the mindset of many people who go

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to veterinary school to build something

in their image and fulfill a dream

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and an expectation and a vision.

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Andy: This tracks with

what I've seen recently.

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I was at a, breakfast meeting with a

bunch of students and they were VBMA

198

students, so the student business group.

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And, I was at a table with about seven

students and five of them told me.

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Their plan was to be an independent

practice owner, and that is not

201

what I saw three, five years ago.

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I mean, even with the VBMA students,

when I would talk to them, there would

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be some, but there would be a a, a

large, I think probably the majority

204

said, you know, we want to be, we want

to be successful in the exam room.

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We want.

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To be good associate vets, we

want to make a good living.

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I, you know, I want to have a

flexible schedule and being good at

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business or being business savvy is

going to help me make that happen.

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But they didn't come to me and say, I

plan to be, I plan to be a business owner.

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That's what I'm here for.

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And so I thought that that was, I thought

that that was interesting and that was

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sort of a shift that I say saw that kind

of lines up what you were saying about

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sort of a purpose driven generation.

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I am not.

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A T corporate at all.

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I have a lot of friends who,

who work in corporate practices.

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I think that there's a lot of benefits to

being a medical leader in a corporation.

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, I think that medical leadership,

especially multi-site medical

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leadership, I think there's a lot of

things that are really cool about it.

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I think there's a great way to make an

impact and there are certain personality

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types that really thrive there.

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And so Peter, it's,

been my impression that.

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It's very possible to have independent

practices and also have corporate

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ownership that has really great upward

mobility for leaders that want to work

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inside of a corporate, , environment.

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And I really want those

people to be successful too.

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Just sort of as a personal thing

for me, I want to have medical

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leaders, veterinarians at the

top of the corporations and

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well-established and, very influential.

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And so I really wanna celebrate

and support those people also.

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But what I'm starting to

see, it's interesting.

232

Is that there are, there are people

who said, oh, you know, I don't

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ever wanna work at a corporation.

234

And then they get in and they

actually kinda like the structure

235

and they like the format.

236

And I see more vets who go into a

corporation and they say, I hate it here.

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It's the bureaucracy.

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I chafe.

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I don't like this.

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don't like the level of autonomy I have.

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I just can't do this.

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And, and I had someone just say

to me literally, , the day before

243

yesterday, she said, I never

wanted to own a vet practice.

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But I also, the corporate life

is just not the life for me.

245

And so I'm gonna do my own thing

because that's what I need to do

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to have the, you know, to have

the career that I want to have.

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And so it's interesting.

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So I, I'm not sure that it's people,

I mean, maybe it's people fleeing

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some of the corporate groups.

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I, I don't know.

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I don't know if it's a reorganization,

but do you buy the idea, Peter,

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that there are people who have

been in a corporate structure.

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That's maybe more hierarchical

and they said, I don't like this.

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I, you know, I'm chafing here.

255

And then there may be people who are in an

independent practice who say, I actually

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really like this sort of structure.

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Do you see a rebalancing where

vets who didn't used to know what

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a corporate structure was like,

were like, I'll give that a try.

259

And now they've decided

they don't want it.

260

or do you see it shaking out differently?

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Peter: Well, a lot of

things to unpack there.

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Okay.

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I believe that there's a great opportunity

within the veterinary corporations.

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I, I am not anti-corporate.

265

I mean, I sold my high hospital

to a corporation 20 years ago.

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I'm not anti-corporate.

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I am about the profession, and so those

corporates that have focused on the

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veterinary profession and enhancing

the lives of our colleagues and our

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veterinary teams, all for them, high

fives, for any of the corporates

270

that have focused on creating better

veterinarians and better teams.

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I am all about those people

who are working for corporates.

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Also, thinking independently

and thinking differently.

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I think that the opportunities

that you noted in working for

274

corporates in medical directors and

regional directors is a great minor

275

leagues to enter the major leagues.

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Okay.

277

I think owning a small business.

278

With the challenges that exist, especially

the challenges that exist in owning a

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veterinary hospital are the major leagues.

280

It is much harder to balance a team

and understand taxes, and understand

281

accounting and understand inventory

and deal with client service when

282

you're the one who's in charge when

you're the captain of the Titanic or

283

the Queen Mary, depending upon where

your boat is, that's the major leagues.

284

So I really do think that if we want

to use the corporates as the minor

285

leagues, and by the way, my friends and

corporations who hear you hear this,

286

that means because you're doing a great

job of building the next generation of

287

independent hospital owners, which if

you stick around long enough, might be

288

selling to you 15 years down the road.

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So don't think badly about the independent

hospitals because they essentially are

290

your farm system when it comes down to it.

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But I, I do think that, , there's a lot

of people who don't like to be managed

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to the profit and loss or, or held

to the numbers from that standpoint.

293

They also don't necessarily

understand the standards of care

294

to which they're being directed.

295

They really don't want to be told

that they're doing a bad job because

296

they're not always being told enough

that they're doing a good job.

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And then I'll throw one more variable

out there, which is the fact that, many

298

of the people who are managing them have

never been in a veterinary hospital and

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don't really understand the culture and

the nuances of a veterinary hospital

300

that when the legacy doctor leaves.

301

That culture that had been built up over

20 or 30 years is really hard to sustain.

302

And you can't come in from

the outside and basically say,

303

well now you're gonna do this.

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When you've built a

culture, now you've lost it.

305

So I think there's so much that goes

on in impacting the minds of this

306

generation of independent hospital

owners, but a lot of it is just because

307

they want to be in the major leagues.

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Andy: You mentioned earlier student

debt and you acted like it was a

309

driver for people to want to become.

310

Independent practice owners, and I've had

it explained to me that student debt is

311

a pretty significant barrier to becoming

a practice owner because people feel

312

like they've already got a lot of debt.

313

Peter, what do you see as the real,

first of all, you can tell me if you,

314

if you disagree with having student debt

being, , and maybe it's a psychological

315

barrier, but, It was explained to

me that vets who were carrying debt

316

are wary of taking on more debt.

317

Is that true?

318

As, as far as a barrier?

319

What are the barriers that you

actually see that people are, are

320

sort of having to overcome to get

sort of into independent ownership?

321

Peter: First of all, student debt is

not held against you by the banks.

322

When it comes down to getting loans

for either startup or acquisition

323

student debt is good debt.

324

It's education debt, and whether you

own a hundred, owe $150,000 or $300,000,

325

the banks won't hold it against you.

326

It's all the other debt.

327

The fact that you bought a BEMER instead

of a kia, the fact that your credit

328

card is over maxed and you've got three

or four, those are the things that

329

will work against your credit rating,

works against you from that standpoint.

330

What you have to understand

though, is as an owner.

331

You are paid five ways, four or five ways.

332

As an associate, you're paid one way.

333

Okay?

334

As as an associate, you're paid

a base or a base plus production.

335

As an owner, you're paid the same way,

base plus production, plus you get

336

paid as a manager of the hospital.

337

You can get paid rent or mortgage.

338

If you own the dirt that you're

building is on and you get paid.

339

With tax benefits and

finally you get paid.

340

With ROI return on investment, which

may be slow initially as you ramp up

341

and you're paying off loans, but then

once those loans are paid off, that

342

money that you are using to pay loans

now becomes your additional income.

343

Mid-career veterinary owners on

average, make a hundred thousand

344

dollars a year more than associates.

345

That's what's reported.

346

It's probably more than that.

347

We take that at over 10 years.

348

At a hundred thousand times

10, that's a million dollars.

349

Over 20 years, that's $2 million

that'll pay off your debt.

350

It'll also pay for your

Mountain Re retreat in, Aspen.

351

So debt is not bad as a student debt.

352

Owning a business will pay

off your student debt sooner.

353

Here are the, the fallacies or

fears that, many young people have.

354

Number one, there are no hospitals

available because they've all

355

been bought up by corporations.

356

There are plenty hospitals available.

357

Number two.

358

I won't have control.

359

I'll have to work six days a week.

360

No, you own the business.

361

You set your schedule number three.

362

, it's really hard to own

and manage a business.

363

Yeah.

364

It's not easy, but you getting

into vet school wasn't easy either.

365

\ , number four is, basically

I will have no family life.

366

I can't have a family

and have, A practice.

367

Yes, you can.

368

Again, as the owner, as soon as you're

busy enough, you hire Andy work to come

369

in two days a week so you can have two

days a week off to be with your family.

370

You own, you schedule, you own,

you build your team in your light.

371

All of these things with a positive

mental attitude can be turned around.

372

But of course, we, as we tend to

thrive on focusing on negative.

373

And I'm suggesting there are

so many more positives that can

374

come out of business ownership.

375

Let me give you a statistic,

Andy, let me ask you a question

376

Andy: Sure.

377

Peter: if I'm a bank,

378

what percentage of

veterinary bank loans fail?

379

Andy: Oh, it's very low.

380

Like less than 5%, right?

381

Peter: How about, how about less than 1%?

382

Andy: It's very low.

383

Peter: It, it's really hard

to fail a veterinary hospital.

384

so if you have a great vision, a

great team, and can give clients

385

a great experience, you can

make money and you don't have

386

to sacrifice your life to do so.

387

Which goes back to looking

at different business models.

388

'cause I would actually

suggest a business model.

389

Hear me out on this.

390

Five owners,

391

Andy: You would do that?

392

You would, You would be a part

of five owners to start out, to

393

start a business with five owners.

394

Peter: bear with me.

395

Andy: Okay.

396

Peter: Five.

397

Five owners each own 20%,

three doctors, 20% each.

398

That's 60%.

399

A manager owns 20% and

a technician owns 20%.

400

So you now have leadership team

bought in, technician team bought in.

401

So you have the longevity

from a career standpoint.

402

You have three doctors who

might just wanna work one and

403

a half full-time equivalents.

404

They're all gonna decide what

the medical standards are.

405

They're gonna have a great

manager and a great technician.

406

I am not sure whether I'm on LSD

while I'm talking about this or

407

Andy: Yeah, this feels like the

secret Lives of Mormon wives.

408

like a really big family

that we'd be juggling.

409

But I don't, I don't know.

410

Maybe there's something here.

411

I,

412

Peter: no, I'm just suggesting

think differently about it.

413

Why don't you know we could actually

have a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday owner.

414

And a Thursday, Friday, Saturday

owner, same team, different

415

doctor, each working those days.

416

It's just we, what we've done forever

is not what we need to do going

417

Andy: can get on board with that.

418

Peter: We could have a morning doctor,

a morning owner, and an afternoon owner

419

Andy: I am seeing more technician owners.

420

I am seeing more and more technician

owners, which I think is really cool.

421

And I just, I like an interesting

challenge and I think, , I really enjoy

422

kind of working with those people.

423

And it's interesting when you don't

have a, when you're independent, but

424

you don't have a doctor as an owner.

425

. You can do it.

426

And I've seen, I'm seeing them

do it and it's, but it's, it's

427

just an interesting challenge.

428

But to your point, , there's

nothing is chiseled in stone about

429

thou must be a veterinarian to

start a one veterinarian practice.

430

That's not how it has to be.

431

Peter: Well, the only thing I would

suggest is that if you are not a

432

veterinarian, that you have a business

partner who is a veterinarian.

433

Because if you own the business

and the veterinarian who

434

you've hired walks, you have no

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Andy: Yeah.

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That's a dicey situation.

437

Yeah.

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Peter: But I want you

to join me in something.

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I

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Andy: Is it your five

way partnership thing?

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Because I don't know that

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Peter: no, no,

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Andy: Okay.

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All right.

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Peter: no.

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that's a whole

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Andy: Okay, good.

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Peter: First of all, I wanna give

you, I wanna give you kudos and a

449

shout out to the VBMA who I think

is one of the best things that his

450

veterinary medicine has come out with.

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I, I'm part of the

National Advisory Board.

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I remember when you were the president

of the Florida VBMA, , back when

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you were in school in the dark ages.

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, when tablets are made of stone,

, which is my generation, but I want

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you to help the next generation of

entrepreneurs through legacy ownership.

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What I mean by that is my generation

of hospital owners need to find an

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exit strategy, and many times it's

staring them right in the face.

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And you have a lot of people who are

working for other doctors who really

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aren't even thinking about, can I buy

the practice that I'm working for?

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Andy: Yeah.

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Peter: I think what we have to do is

start to, if we wanna look at transition

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of wealth, let's look at transition

of wealth to the baby boomers, into

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the Gen Ys and Gen Zs who are already

working there, which means changing

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the mindset of veterinarians who

are owners to be willing to look at

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their associates as an exit strategy.

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And so we have to start

to look at, can we build.

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Legacy transition of power from

a veterinary hospital owner to

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their associates and maybe to

their manager and or technician.

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Andy: Yeah.

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I, I like that a lot.

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Peter, do you have any advice?

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Like how do we start to

make these connections?

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How do you get these

conversations started?

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I I think a lot of associates.

475

Who might be interested, don't know

how to breach the subject, or a lot

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of owners who are kind of thinking,

I don't wanna mention to the team

477

that I'm not gonna be here forever.

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Also, I'm not gonna be here forever,

and we should at least maybe start to

479

work on a plan before, before that,

you know, before we get to the place

480

where that, that becomes imminent.

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do you have any advice on how to sort

of get those conversations going or

482

start to make connections between people

who might be interested in the legacy

483

ownership and, and those who, you know,

who might be, interested in engaging

484

from a, from an owner standpoint?

485

Peter: I think it's a question of

bring it together, a success team.

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And so I've done a variety of

talks with, uh, young doctors

487

who are looking to buy hospitals.

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I think we need to have talks where you've

got the, let's call it veterinary tinder.

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Andy: Okay.

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Peter: the sellers and the owners

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Andy: how you end up with

a five way partnership.

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Peter: absolutely.

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But we've got the sellers and the owners,

and you can swipe right or swipe left

494

if they don't wanna live in Greenville.

495

Then of course they're gonna look in

Charlotte maybe if, maybe if not in

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Charlotte, they'll look in Austin.

497

Whatever the case may be.

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I think we just have, we have silos of

people who don't cross pollinate that need

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to be cross pollinated and whether the

bankers bring 'em together, whether the

500

transaction people who are representing

hospital sales bring them together.

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But I do think it's, it's, there's

a great opportunity to take.

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30% of the hospitals and keep them

within independent hospital sales.

503

By the way, many of them, and, and

not to belittle any individual, but

504

many of them are not as profitable

as others because people have owned

505

a job for the last 10 or 15 years.

506

Instead of owning a business, they, they

got everything they wanted out of it,

507

but they haven't been able to retire.

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They're coming upon retirement.

509

They didn't build that practice over

the last 10 or 15 years, so the value

510

of that hospital has dec declined.

511

But that's a great opportunity for

the right doctor to go in and purchase

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at a res relatively reasonable price,

and ultimately go in and create a

513

practice in their own image that

continues the legacy of the prior owner.

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Andy: Yeah, I, I like this a lot.

515

Dr.

516

Peter Weinstein.

517

Thanks for being here.

518

Thanks for talking through this with me.

519

Where can people find you online?

520

Peter: Can I be a little bit self-serving?

521

Andy: Yeah.

522

Peter: Okay.

523

Andy: No, you've done, you've

done incredible work around this.

524

Yes.

525

Talk about, talk about the

programs you're running.

526

Peter: So, if you'd like to learn more

about how to be an independent hospital

527

owner, we're trying to build a community

of independent hospital owners through

528

our website, www dot veterinary.

529

Ownership advocates.com.

530

Veterinary ownership advocates.com

531

or if that's too long, www dot v Vet.

532

All right.

533

We have an online education program.

534

It's a Minim, BA of 24 hours of race

approved ce, and we have telephone

535

calls every month with our community

to talk about the issues, help them.

536

Look at floor plans, find architects,

talk about marketing, and essentially

537

continue to motivate them towards

their final goal of opening a hospital.

538

And then we stick around with them to

help them through that formative years.

539

And we're working on kind of

season two, which is now what?

540

Now that you're open, what's next?

541

Andy: Yeah.

542

Oh man.

543

That's fantastic.

544

Peter.

545

Thanks for being here guys.

546

Thanks for tuning in and

listening to everybody.

547

Take care of yourselves, gang.

548

We'll talk to you later on.

549

Speaker: And that's what I got.

550

Gang, thanks for being here.

551

Everybody.

552

Thanks for listening.

553

Thanks to Peter for being along.

554

Shout out to all you independent

practice owners out there , who are

555

doing it every day, who are, , putting

in the work and owning your own

556

place and making your own path.

557

I always love it.

558

be well.

559

Take care of yourselves.

560

talk to you later on.