Pat Schenk joins Jeff for a conversation with highlights such as: childhood on the Washington coast, fishing the Columbia river, fighting with brothers and drunken bullies, and taking concussive blows to the head. Pat relives the time that he suffered a head injury that left him unable to read, and we go into mental health and the current state of mental health care in the United States.

If you like a podcast that floats from topic to topic and doesn't take itself too seriously, this is the show for you. We get into some sensitive territory but always keep that trademark ramble by the river positive vibe. Both Pat and myself showcase our ability to take a conversation anywhere and everywhere. So sit back and enjoy the ride.

Thank you for listening!

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share!

Links:

Business inquiries/guest booking: Ramblebytheriver@gmail.com

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Facebook: Jeff Nesbitt (Ramble by the River)https://www.facebook.com/jeff.nesbitt.9619

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Twitter: @RambleRiverPod

Youtube: https://youtube.com/channel/UCNiZ9OBYRxF3fJ4XcsDxLeg

Music Credit(s):

Still Fly, Revel Day.

Golden Crates, Dusty Decks.

Smart Face, Smartface.

Topics: education; after-school programs; social media; childhood development; cognition; brain development; habitual behavior; addiction; aging; concussion; head injury; comedy; obscure comedy; voice recording; fishing; commercial fishing; photography; creativity; leisure activities; art; charter fishing; machine learning; artificial intelligence, whale watching; marine management; dystopian futures; dichotomy; memory; psychology; Jeff’s mom; human intelligence; cryptocurrency; attention; literacy; school field trips; owl pellets; conformity; horoscopes; astrology; wishful thinking; hyper-vigilance; audiobooks; philosophy; writing; tragedy of the commons; habitat management; government regulations; bar fights; mental health crisis; homelessness; parenting; relationships; sculling; rowing; sports; bike riding; goal-setting; back pain; tall people; food; eating habits; health; intermittent fasting; ketogenic diet; 

Keywords: Boys and Girls Club; Peninsula Learns; Instagram; Facebook; Geoff Hylton; Luke Jensen; CTE; ADHD; Nathan For You; Nathan Fielder; Netflix; David Samson; Nothing Personal; The Big Lebowski; Portland, OR; Seattle, WA; Four Seasons; Long Beach, WA; Mesothelioma; Rod’s Lamp Lighter; McMenamin’s; Covid-19; Jackson Browne; Marc Maron; Cispus; Mount St. Helens eruption; Marine Protection Areas; Bayer; Monsanto; Round-up; Columbia River bar; Bristol Bay, Alaska; Dr. Kim Patten; Willapa Bay; UW crew; Western Washington University Men’s Crew; Type I Diabetes; Type II Diabetes; Ilwaco Track & Field

Pat Schenk

jeff intro

[00:00:23] Around long beach, a Wako Chinook. Being out on the water fishing. Really we hit probably 10,000 subjects in the course of just two hours. But I honestly, I think both of us have ADHD. I know I do. And, uh, after that conversation, it's pretty likely to pat. Has something going on with him too. I don't know, you'll be the judge.

[00:00:52] It is Saturday, July 10th, 2021. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really appreciate it. I know you've got a lot of [00:01:00] options, so I appreciate you spending your time with me. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast player, whether that's apple podcasts or Spotify, it works everywhere. Leave a review if you like the show. And if you hate the show, please don't leave a review. I don't, I don't need those at all.

[00:01:24] and if you don't, Hey, I appreciate you being here anyway. . If you're new to the ramble by the river family. I appreciate you for coming. Thank you for checking out the show. And by now you're probably wondering to yourself, what is this nonsense that you have stumbled upon? So let me fill you in.

[00:01:55]My guests and I, me Andrew, across a wide variety of topics really, whatever we find interesting. [00:02:00] And we can get as personal, as topical, as tragic, hopeful, preachy, complainy, and Seine, deep, shallow conspiratorial, factual, or irreverent as we see fit in the moment. And we just go with it. It's great. It's got to be that way. It's an open forum. It's open space where you can just talk.

[00:02:44] The way I see it. That's the only way the good stuff is going to come out is just to open the flood gates and not worry. That being said, we are not fact checking as we go. Ramble by the river is intended for entertainment purposes only.

[00:03:18] So that perhaps it might peak your interest. Okay. These conversations are with interesting people and they're intended to peak your curiosity so that perhaps you might be inspired.

[00:03:46] These conversations are with interesting people and they're intended to peak your curiosity so that perhaps it might inspire you to seek further information on the subject from a real source, like a peer review journal, a doctor, a financial analyst, or a member of the [00:04:00] clergy at your local religious order.

[00:04:18] I just don't want to cause anybody any problems. If I say something wrong. So if something I say interests, you Google it, give it a Google, you know, and even let me know if I'm wrong. Who knows? I could just be saying stuff, sound like an idiot. And. You can help me out to not look like an ass. .

[00:04:52] So. DJ names. You guys have been coming through. I have had several submissions now. And. [00:05:00] A few of my personal favorites are. DJ jazzy, Jeff, which I know has already taken with will Smith's friend. DJ balls deep. DJ killer Jay. DJ jazzy, Jeff. And DJ nasty bit. Ooh, that one's got some stank on it.

[00:05:30] So I just started reading this book. It's called. This is your brain on food. And it is by. Ooma Naidu MD. And it's just about how making, , food choices affects your mental health and your mental functioning, your cognition, how you experience the world, all of it. And it is really great. It's a fantastic book, and I couldn't recommend it enough.

[00:06:13] His work on plants, it was called, uh, the botany of desire. And there that was a show and also a book, I think. But he's great. And so I was looking into him. I was getting his new book and I've found this book. Audible suggested it to me. And it looked good and I sampled it and I liked it. So I got into it. I'm about halfway through it already and it is really good. It goes through several different, very common mental disorders or conditions like ADHD, depression. Generalized anxiety disorder. Post-traumatic stress disorder. And it explains all of the correlates in both directions, positive and negative with food. So it tells you like, First it does anxiety.

[00:07:23] Because of a and B whatever, blueberries help your depression because of, and it'll explain the neuro-transmitters and all of the happenings and goings on of the body. And it's great. Cause I think it gets really easy to forget that our mind and our brain are not the same thing and that sometimes our experience of the world.

[00:08:01] And you really feel that when like, You're hungry is a great example, hangry, you know, that's your flesh crying out. It wants things it has needs. This book has got me thinking that I need to change my diet and get back on track. I know I've said this before and I'm struggling. I'm struggling with it, but it talked a lot about ADHD.

[00:08:33] But most of what they had at the time was just like,

[00:08:51] So. I had kind of just written it off as just like an unexplainable kind of like, I don't know. I don't even know if it's real on the days when I [00:09:00] just want to feel shitty about myself. I just, I don't even believe it's real. I just think I'm lazy and. On the days when it is, I don't know. It it's, it's a really easy crutch for self-loathing sometimes where I can.

[00:09:47] And whatever that. Future situation is it will trigger a reaction in your body and in your brain. With the neuro-transmitter cocktail that is anticipated to come along with that activity. So let's say [00:10:00] it's skydiving and you love skydiving. So when you have the idea like, oh, I'm about to go, go skydiving, your brain starts prepping your body with the appropriate.

[00:10:28]That feeling where you're just like, I do not want to fucking do that. That's really common for me. And I know it's common for everybody, but I had never, I had never put it together. That that was part of ADHD before. I had never really made that connection. And I had never really even really thought that I was any different than anybody else. Um, but I have a very hard time with anticipation of that.

[00:11:10] Editing podcasts. But I do every time. I just. And I never put it together before, and it's cool. I like learning about myself and it's, it's just fun. It's enlightening and makes me feel like I'm not alone. There's other people going through very similar things to me. So it's cool. So, yeah, one more time. That book is, this is your brain on food by Ooma. And I do M D.

[00:11:38] We'll put the reading rainbow song in here.

Interview Body

[00:00:05] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:00:05] So you're not fishing at all. Oh, wow. Nope. Sorry. I've got to, oh no, enjoy your sandwich. It's the lunch hour

[00:00:17] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:00:17] Yeah. I've had a few episodes where we did that. I think on Alex, max, he's like chewing a sausage and for the mic. Yeah. That episode was fun to make, but it, it was, it took, that's probably took three times longer

[00:00:33] Yeah. Yeah. And we started doing ours, like, Hey buddy stories, you know, he's, he's got that. He's been that way since he was a kid. I know you were a shit as a kid. I couldn't, I just, I've just always figured. Well, Jeff's kind of, cause I used to work at an afterschool program that, uh, you dipped your toes into it.

[00:00:55] Pat Schenk: [00:00:55] And I used to work there and I remember you were, uh, always, I [00:01:00] shouldn't be doing this on your part. Oh no, no. We probably haven't even started yet, but it's just, you were just kind of at a shit and you were really smart, which kind of fucked things up because you could get away with stuff and you could.

[00:01:18] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:01:18] most of the time. I know the spotlight wasn't on me because my younger brother, Jake was much more it willing to get negative attention.

[00:01:29] I mean, it's quite possible.

[00:01:39] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:01:39] They need to get peninsula learns or something like that.

[00:01:47] Pat Schenk: [00:01:47] haven't really heard a whole lot about that. I, um, but man, you know, I, I, I got a ton out of that program and that I, um, also did, um, like the boys and girls club for a while and did stuff like [00:02:00] that, which was, that was fun too.

[00:02:19] Cause they used to teach at the alternative school to the alternative school back in the day. And that was a good program for a while too. So,

[00:02:42] Pat Schenk: [00:02:42] Yeah. I think that the, the well being of our kids is kind of a major thing, so well-being of our society. Right, exactly. And so, um, so I just think that that's actually headed down a dark black hole ish type of looking thing, unfortunately. So yeah, [00:03:00] I mean not the school district or anything like that. It's just social media and the kids are always plugged in and I I'm like the old, uh, kids get off my lawn guy now I think, cause I, I sound like an old fogy when I'm talking and I get by I'm old, but.

[00:03:24] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:03:24] There's a lot to do. Yeah. There still is. It's just, yeah. I really think that kids don't even think the same way that they used to , I mean, not always in a bad way, but mostly bad.

[00:03:43] Pat Schenk: [00:03:43] and I'm on it a lot.

[00:03:56] Like when you've been on Instagram too long and you're [00:04:00] like, I, my neck hurts my eyes. I'm not even enjoying anything I'm seeing my thumb is just scroll,

[00:04:16] Yeah.

[00:04:29] Pat Schenk: [00:04:29] And I think that it takes away any, , sense of community. I remember when I was a kid, this is a long time ago.

[00:04:46] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:04:46] And You probably do terrible with women, right?

[00:04:52] But Yammer was gone. It doesn't matter. This is your thing.

[00:05:00]Pat Schenk: [00:05:00] Did not tell me about that part of the whole thing though, for you I'll do it because I really have enjoyed listening to your past episodes of this show. I really, I mean, it's, it's, it's really cool because it's like, I have at least some connection with almost every one of your guests, which is really fun.

[00:05:23] When You're starting off too, when you're trying to find guests, the only people, you know, are the people, you know, , you can't, you know, , when you're bringing someone else in, it's a little more discomforting to have to learn about them. As you talked about them, you know, when you know something like when I locked, listened to you talk with, uh, with Jeff, of course he gets mentioned in every episode.

[00:06:00] So

[00:06:06] Pat Schenk: [00:06:06] and he's just, he's just open. Yeah. He just says anything and he's your bro. And it's kinda, it's just kinda cool to listen to him. So, yeah.

[00:06:21] I don't remember stuff in the past. Oh, you've been through that.

[00:06:30] Pat Schenk: [00:06:30] No, that's fine. I, uh, oh, anyhow. Um, it was, I don't even. This doesn't have any relevance. I think it did at one point. Cause that's what my brain does.

[00:06:41] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:06:41] Oh, this is going to be perfect. People don't

[00:07:03] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:07:03] Nathan for you.

[00:07:14] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:07:14] great. Yeah. Way underrated as an entertainer.

[00:07:28] So yeah. I love that kind of stuff. I'm not, I'm not big on that. Yeah was sitcom type stuff, but I like weird stuff. So yeah, it makes me happy.

[00:07:49] Right? Yeah. That's good stuff.

[00:08:19] I just, I, I think you come across really well. Thank you. So

[00:08:26] Pat Schenk: [00:08:26] all the bars that are necessary.

[00:08:46]Pat Schenk: [00:08:46] well, Um, my favorite movie is probably the big Lebowski cause he's the dude and I've kind of built along. Those lines is, you know, perfect world for me. So I don't, um, I've worked on boats, [00:09:00] my almost entire life, except for a few years restaurant and be like a real grown-up and go do jobs in the city and do stuff.

[00:09:30] Um, you know, rural communities are great for that too, but you run out of topics cause you see everything a million times. Um, but yeah, I used to work at afterschool programs and uh, alternative schools where we've already touched on that a little bit. But yeah, that's a professionally, it's worked well for me.

[00:09:58] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:09:58] Yeah. That's it comes from like the Vinci, [00:10:00] I think. Well, he was one of those. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it just means you do a lot of shit. I do a lot of different interests in irons, in the fire.

[00:10:10] I've tried factory jobs when I was living in the city. I tried driving for a living and all that stuff. Just kind of, yeah. Whereas my brain out, not no active way, but in a death deadening way. So, so

[00:10:31]Pat Schenk: [00:10:31] I just wake up and feel like I'm going to do this today. And I just do that and they're not like I'm changing the world. I go for bike rides. I go for hikes. , you know, I like to take photos. I sometimes screw around and throw paint at a canvas. I do all sorts of just weird stuff that people, if they had a lot of spare time, they would do.

[00:10:57] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:10:57] That's all the stuff I want to do. I love doing that [00:11:00] stuff and I wish like I would love to build a life where. You somehow make money from it like that.

[00:11:12] You could, you could be right.

[00:11:30] I think they're great because a lot of it is like sell you on some bullshit to keep you hooked and get you in this program or whatever. But they take real like success stories and they use real nuggets of information and real psychological tricks that you can use to motivate yourself. All that stuff really works.

[00:12:04] Yeah. You gotta do a lot of it on your own, but it's not all, hucksters out there. There are people with some knowledge to share, but, um, so you're. Dad was a commercial fishermen, or charter fishermen, right?

[00:12:23] And the way that we viewed it in my fam was that it wasn't. I mean, we always did very well productive wise, as far as catching fish. I mean, dad is a witch. He's always has been amazing. And he taught my brother and myself and, and, and you know, a lot of people how to do it. Um, but

[00:12:45] Pat Schenk: [00:12:45] It's not family secrets.

[00:13:02]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:13:02] I just listened to a podcast yesterday about forms of artificial intelligence that are machine learning algorithms.

[00:13:27] And eventually, I mean, the computer just figures out. These characteristics, these traits went in a photograph and this arrangement usually it's a dog. And every once in a while, it finds a picture of a pig and it calls it a dog, but, and you have to teach it that that's not it, but you don't know exactly why it made that picture a dog when it's not a dog, you don't know why, because at that point that the AI has kind of taken on a life of its own.

[00:14:05] Pat Schenk: [00:14:05] and things change. Our environment has changed so much out on the water that the animals that live in the water around here have changed so much in the 40 years that I've been involved in the fishing.

[00:14:19] Pat Schenk: [00:14:19] It was really rare. And now it's an everyday occurrence.

[00:14:33] But now I see them every summer and , It just seems strange. I wonder what's bringing them in less food out there.

[00:14:48] Cause there's a zillion of them. And, and I don't follow through on researching in my head deep enough to really go beyond the surface on Metro of it.

[00:15:15] It's a really big thing to manage and it's. I don't know, it's kind of important that we figure that shit out.

[00:15:30] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:15:30] how the human ways human race was wiped out.

[00:15:33] Pat Schenk: [00:15:33] I know you're talking about that stuff that, that, shit's scary to me that, you know, the AI stuff and it's fascinating, but it's also just a bit scary. I mean, like I'm worried that the computer is going to take over and Armageddon and all that crap. That's not really in my way of it, but it's more just the, what are people going to become?

[00:16:02] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:16:02] find another way to live or you fight.

[00:16:19] And it's like, you know, it, and there's so much nuance in between those two sides when people quit seeing the nuance and all the, the in-between ground where creativity is, you know, where you can come up with fresh ideas and think things through yeah.

[00:16:40] Pat Schenk: [00:16:40] uh, I'm not sure I've ever given that any thought, but I think it, I think it comes to rephrase well, I think, I think you got to unplug yourself from the machine, you know?

[00:17:29] And you're exactly making memories is exactly right. People don't make, I used to tell my son, this it's like any, luckily for me, he wasn't that type. He never got entrenched in computer gamings and stuff like that. He's a surfer. And he does all that stuff.

[00:17:54] Now, if you go and do something with your friends, with other people where there is like things that [00:18:00] aren't predetermined, as an outcome, then that's where you grow together and that's where you learn together. And luckily for me, he's done that very, very well.

[00:18:13] Pat Schenk: [00:18:13] but it's also becoming.

[00:18:17] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:18:17] it's riskier than living a life with somebody else prescribed for you through a screen a lot of the time. And there's a lot more uncertainty and people do not like uncertainty.

[00:18:41] I forget their names. They were great. Um, but I was in there one time visiting and there were like eight other people in there and it just struck me. I know it happens all the time, but sometimes, you know, you see stuff all the time and if you actually stop and take a conscious picture of what's going on, it's kind of striking.

[00:19:17] I was like, you're reading your goddamn phone, allow me to be quiet. You know? And this is a place where people come to socialize and it's people are losing the ability to, and I was thinking it would be kind of a neat, not that I would try to make a business out of it, but try to. The coffee shop where you just unplug there's no, there's no, any of that, there's you get in there, you get to talk to people, you get to share stories, um, things that we're doing right now via the internet airwaves and such and so forth.

[00:19:54] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:19:54] So it's overload. We are taking in so much stimulation [00:20:00] or not stimulation so much stimuli that it there's no way we can remember all of it and don't need to

[00:20:19] Our simulator is pretty good, but I mean, it makes a lot of mistakes, , but we, uh, yeah, the, the interaction thing, the more you're connecting with a real person, you're making eye contact. You're aware of being in the same physical place. There's all that like you're activating more senses.

[00:20:57] You go to the same job, see the same people [00:21:00] you say the same bull, shitty little small talk every day. They're all the same. And your brain is just like, what am I going to hold all of that?

[00:21:27] I that terrifies me because it would have happened without realizing it. You had to think, you're thinking everything is going along just fine. You know, I'm, I'm making money, I'm doing my thing. And all of a sudden you're dead. Right?

[00:21:48]that's one of the things that last summer that made me believe that it was probably time for me to retire from the fishing industries. Cause I get the same customers a lot, you know, repeats and requests. Cause I'm amazing. So [00:22:00] people love to be on there, so sorry. Have to show up.

[00:22:18] Oh. And I thought he was joking with me, but I thought, shit, you know what he's right though. It's kinda, it kinda does feel like rinse, repeat, you know, and, and nothing has changed. So yeah. , it's nice to step off. Off the path once in a while. So

[00:22:38] Pat Schenk: [00:22:38] instead?

[00:22:54] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:22:54] how much asbestos is in a house that was built? I don't know, around 1968.

[00:23:19]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:23:19] Shout out

[00:23:22] It's just, you know, um, but it's, if they're going to tear the place down, because then if you break it, then it becomes fryable and it's in the air and that's when it can be problematic. But if it's in a roofing tile and the riffing tiles just on the house, it's not going to be a problem.

[00:23:41] Pat Schenk: [00:23:41] That's a real common hit is in the old

[00:23:45] Pat Schenk: [00:23:45] tiles. Well, it's kind of one of those things I could do a, do a thing for you, but it's like, ah, I can't tell by looking, you'd have to do a labs.

[00:24:05] Pat Schenk: [00:24:05] Put it clear on it now just put it, put some sort of coating on it right away. So it isn't in the air.

[00:24:17] Pat Schenk: [00:24:17] it up just saying, you know, keep it wet, keep it contained.

[00:24:22] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:24:22] it hasn't been all torn up or anything. So it should be okay. But yeah, that's crazy that people are. Just living with that stuff that they were just putting it everywhere and well, but you know,

[00:24:39] It's not gonna, it's not often you're picking up a tile and breaking it in front of your face. You know, it's not really a thing, but like I say, well, you're going to remove it or dump it off in a landfill somewhere. You have to know if it's containing as bestest or not. So that's we do. That's what we do.

[00:24:54] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:24:54] That's good. And too good. A thing to do um, so yeah, , back to getting to know you a little bit

[00:25:00] [00:25:00] I miss karaoke. We haven't been able to do that for a long time. Now they closed down the land plants right now, too. Yeah. Yeah. My brother wanted to, he was talking about buying it so we can get that going again. So I don't think that's going to happen. It's got ghosts in that building is so shot, sorry to the, you know, re you know, the, the retail people that

[00:25:20] Interesting. They should turn it into a McMenamins.

[00:25:35] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:25:35] those gorgeous.

[00:25:38] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:25:38] Yeah. Yeah. I heard they were going to do that. And then they just kinda didn't seem like it went anywhere. The

[00:25:54] Kind of lost focus on what it was they were doing. So, yeah.

[00:26:03] Pat Schenk: [00:26:03] I'm sure I do, but uh, like I say, it's like, uh, it's like, you know, if you like drop a window on the floor, it's like trying to get to that place in my memory is a hard

[00:26:15] Pat Schenk: [00:26:15] mind.

[00:26:55] And he's a big dude, you know, and he's kicking his squad and we're like 13 and 14. We're [00:27:00] hanging on to him over the boat. And he's plight got efficient as a fishing rod in his hand. And, uh, we threw the pies in his face and said that was a father's day, you know, thing for him. But it's not really a story about dad.

[00:27:33] So you just hear repeats on the old ones. I, I have a real hard time, , just not making that. We've heard this shit already skip face, you know? Cause, cause we've

[00:27:47] Pat Schenk: [00:27:47] he's got to contribute something, you know, and he doesn't have anything recent really, you know, that, that we had all are familiar with.

[00:27:57] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:27:57] self doing that as a dad where I'm just like, [00:28:00] I know, like I started telling a story and I, I can, even though I don't remember telling it, I can feel the vibe of my kids like, oh, this one again. And I'm just like, have I told you guys this already? And , they usually will tell me if I have, and I'll just be like, well, I'm just going to, I guess I'll just stop now.

[00:28:19] Pat Schenk: [00:28:19] but I've never, I've never got that vibe against me, but I've just, you know, great type telling them amazing stories except for when I'm on a podcast, I'd knock it down.

[00:28:31]

[00:28:48] So, um, anyhow, um, and it's just looking at it and I thought, I must look absolutely ridiculous. Trying to fold socks. I'm like 52 year old, six foot four [00:29:00] man. And I can't fold socks. It just looked must look so stupid to somebody. I thought if they walked by and they say, what is wrong with that dude? Where is he mental?

[00:29:30] You can't see them all. And at least with that, you could see those broken parts. And so it's easy for people to understand, but when you have broken parts that are internal, then no people don't, they, they can't see that. And they just think that you're. Odd. Yeah. You know, which, I mean, we're all, oh,

[00:29:52] Right. Like I actually just had a conversation kind of along these lines with my mom. Right, right. Before we started this. But,

[00:30:11] But it wasn't

[00:30:13] Pat Schenk: [00:30:13] I was, thank you. I appreciate that. But I was barely teenage because I was like a year younger than everybody in my class. And I was like seventh grade. She had great hair. She had beautiful red hair. And, and, and I remember this, she wanted to sing background for Jackson brown.

[00:30:50] Yeah. It was kind of fun. And, and so. Trust me, it ended there, but it was just like, I noticed her and I thought, wow, she's really pretty. That's it. [00:31:00] She

[00:31:02] Pat Schenk: [00:31:02] Well, if you're out there, Tori, Tori white, it was then a yep.

[00:31:06] Yeah. Yeah. She's still sings she's still, she's been musical forever. Right. And I'm pretty sure she's still in love with Jackson brown. I

[00:31:17] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:31:17] Oh, really? He was on WTF. Uh, yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty good show. It is. I really enjoy that one. Yeah. He's one of the original, like it's kind of long form sit down and kind of dig in type

[00:31:29] Yeah. Well, especially when he's digging into himself and his wife passed, that was really sad to listen to him.

[00:31:40] Pat Schenk: [00:31:40] the rawness of it all was the part that I really enjoyed.

[00:31:57] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:31:57] what I get from a lot of people is like, uh, what [00:32:00] about Jeff? They're like, it felt like having an actual conversation with Jeff was like, I've had that conversation with Jeff and yeah.

[00:32:20] We're just hanging out.

[00:32:37]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:32:37] He was a big peninsula learns kid.

[00:32:39] Pat Schenk: [00:32:39] all the time. He and um, um, Luke, Luke, right? Luke Jensen rest, his soul, God, that kid, he, I was decking on a boat called the sea venture and he wanted to get into decking and he was working on the boat next to me when he was just starting off and he loved it. He loved being a part of it all.

[00:33:01] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:33:01] yeah. I have never known a person who was that gung-ho about the fishing life. Like not just about fish or about the fishing or boats, but about everything that had to do with fisheries biology, like everything. Yeah. he was all about,

[00:33:21] Normally you don't see, this is going to sound bad to all the fishermen. They are, you don't see the, like the really critical thinkers and the, you know, the, the very smart. Kids showing that kind of interest in a blue collar type of a, a

[00:33:37] Pat Schenk: [00:33:37] And so, I mean, there was a lot of guys that surprised the hell out of me with what they talk about, the intelligence on the water.

[00:33:58] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:33:58] for sure.

[00:34:11] Pat Schenk: [00:34:11] when there's, I mean, there's tons. Tons of knowledge. It's like, not all of it, you know, is in, you know, in line with academia.

[00:34:24] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:34:24] We will do it for the entire show.

[00:34:30] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:34:30] like a puzzle.

[00:34:35] Pat Schenk: [00:34:35] We're not talking about cryptocurrency. I will walk the fuck out of here. If I start talking about,

[00:34:46] Pat Schenk: [00:34:46] I'm just not going to partake in a conversation.

[00:34:54] Pat Schenk: [00:34:54] No, it's just because like I, like I was trying to get to before. It was like, you know, we, I knew we're going to talk about Jeff, but so we [00:35:00] covered that, but I'm not going crypto.

[00:35:02] That's fine. I'm actually kind of burned out right now.

[00:35:16] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:35:16] going to fix it

[00:35:23] But

[00:35:24] Pat Schenk: [00:35:24] getting to conspiracies. Um, I'd make up my own. I don't join other people's.

[00:35:30]Pat Schenk: [00:35:30] But I don't read anything. I'm I'm essentially illiterate as I I'm. I know you'll laugh. It's it's kinda the

[00:35:38] mean?

[00:35:44] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:35:44] dyslexic though. For real.

[00:35:55] That's why I was a year younger than everybody in my class. Cause they moved me up when I was a kid, they thought I [00:36:00] was, I should be in the grade above and all that. So because you're big and I wasn't big. I was, I, I wasn't big until my junior year in high school. I was a little guy.

[00:36:15] I was unconscious. Oh, wow. That's a bad one. Yeah. It

[00:36:21] Pat Schenk: [00:36:21] I don't know if they called it a coma back then, but I was, I mean, I don't remember anything from the time I hit the ground until my aunt was holding my hand and patting and talking to me, on the stretcher.

[00:36:52] They pull on it. You'd get flung out with this, you know, just high energy, a lot of leverage, a lot of leveraging, just getting flooded. And I have weak [00:37:00] hands and I've always kind of had we cans. And so, uh, I was hanging on to the thing and they actually got a couple other neighborhood kids, you know, because I said, oh, do it.

[00:37:25] I landed on my head, oh my God. In the yard. And like, say back then, as soon as your eyes opened back up and you were able to say something like, oh, he's fine. You know? Um, but, but I couldn't read anymore. It's like, that's when I got to the point where I couldn't hold a thought for more. I mean, I say I jumped around, I literally do jump around and have a hard time staying in the same lane in my head.

[00:38:13] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:38:13] So it was like a problem with integration.

[00:38:34] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:38:34] that sounds very much like ADHD, which also wasn't really something they were okay,

[00:38:45] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:38:45] born 60?

[00:38:50] Pat Schenk: [00:38:50] 52. So you're aging. Well,

[00:39:10] Not a chance, no chance. I'm going to be able to absorb this information. And I kind of attribute it to like, I'm hypervigilant. I have a little anxiety. , and I'm just always on guard. , when I go to a restaurant, I got to sit against the wall, , or I won't enjoy the meal. Like I don't, I don't like to have people being able to just walk up behind me, um, or.

[00:39:42] Pat Schenk: [00:39:42] How could you go to Cispus? That was a long trip. I was like,

[00:39:47] Pat Schenk: [00:39:47] I don't remember. That was so much fun. I worked at for a couple of years, but oh, it's a great camp. It was great. And the whole idea of it, I think is great. The bonding with the upperclassmen and all that stuff. I think it's, it's, it's been lost for a long time and I bummed, it's [00:40:00] funny when Mount St Helen's blue for my sixth grade year, so I didn't get to do it.

[00:40:22] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:40:22] but it was, and it was something that like everyone talked about it for the years leading up to it.

[00:40:28] Pat Schenk: [00:40:28] It was, it was the reward at the end of your grade school year to be able to go to camp cispus and have that big bonding experience. ,I remember we had the counselors. Burton Walters and he brought his guitar

[00:40:39] Yeah,

[00:40:54]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:40:54] He made it back alright.

[00:41:02] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:41:02] I made it back on my own. I was very savvy in the woods.

[00:41:11] Yeah. Sorry about that was you got that's that's, it's amazing that I like you now because I, you

[00:41:27] I remember sixth grade. I did talk to him about this,

[00:41:36]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:41:36] It's hilarious story. I don't mind it.

[00:41:42] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:41:42] Um, but it's, it's interesting.

[00:41:45] Pat Schenk: [00:41:45] I taught the, uh, , the owl pellet class.

[00:42:04] Right. And the kids are like, that's like owl poop. I was like, not poo, but similar. Yeah. And was it, we're just going to take it apart and see if we can put together a little mouse skeletons. Yeah. That was fun.

[00:42:21] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:42:21] to do that right on.

[00:42:28] Pat Schenk: [00:42:28] this is gonna be a challenge for you with me.

[00:42:33] Pat Schenk: [00:42:33] and we get to that shit. We took a couple off roads.

[00:42:39] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:42:39] And CTM has a few turns away,

[00:42:45]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:42:45] Yeah, so I find it interesting that everybody only has their own experience to reference and like in the way it feels to be a human. And that makes it really interesting that we have like, generally.

[00:43:23] But there's really no way of knowing whether or not our experiences are even similar because like, what is a baseline normal regular day for me might feel like torture to the next person , like me, I have a , really high need for stimulation and I get depressed if I don't have it.

[00:43:47] Like I need physical stimulation. I need to be working out. I need to be having sex. I need to be moving my body and, everything I'm a highly sensitive and I needed to be stimulated. And, um, [00:44:00] not very many people are like that. So it's, it's people talk about what they need and what they are expected to be like.

[00:44:17] Pat Schenk: [00:44:17] I can't remember, but I remember just thinking about the, like the bell curve you're talking about. I just kind of view each person is, you know, like not where they are in the bell curve necessarily, but maybe they're redefining the curve, you know?

[00:44:40] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:44:40] welcome. Thank you. Finishing each other's sentences. Exactly.

[00:44:47] Right? So. I mean, it just because it is a curve doesn't mean you fit on it. You could be redefining it. You could be the extreme outside of this end of it. You know, or this, this high point or whatever, you know, you could be a different person. It [00:45:00] doesn't necessarily mean it applies to you. I think individualism is, I think it's super important and it's getting a little lost cause we're getting very, uh, uh, one of those lemmings or whatever that, you know, jump off.

[00:45:28] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:45:28] Yeah. We, didn't a real big hurry to label ourselves by like read it, reading the horoscopes is a great example.

[00:45:58] It's all about [00:46:00] expectations. And like, you can trick yourself into believing just about anything. And if you can, I mean, you can take that knowledge and use it to build the life you want and be the person you want to be by just believing that you already are. Sure.

[00:46:15] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:46:15] If hypervigilance hypervigilance,

[00:46:35] No. So they aren't too offended. Most of the local restaurant, they know, cause it's me. Oh, we Pat's kind of wacko. He needs to do this. So I recap, just relax, real, be thinking about it the whole time. And so I kind of liked that. That's my restaurant thing. Yeah.

[00:46:51] Pat Schenk: [00:46:51] It's only at restaurants that it bothers me.

[00:47:00] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:47:00] So it's probably got something to do with the context of like, this is supposed to be a nice place or something in your deep, down in your brain. Where do you think he comes from? I remember the first time he ever did it,

[00:47:12] Okay. I mean, it happened, it was a later in life thing. I didn't even notice most of the time, but I think it probably happened. I don't know. But the weird thing, I think it happened about the time I became a single dad and I don't know why that would be maybe just about, I think that's about the only like intersection.

[00:47:34] Pat Schenk: [00:47:34] I can make this picture straight. Right. If I, if I go someplace with my kid, he can at least have a little bit of normalcy and things can be perfect here because like at my house, my house is a mess. My house is 122 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a real weight. 132 years old.

[00:47:59] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:47:59] Oh, that's a good [00:48:00] town to be in, except for the water prices. My God. It's

[00:48:08] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:48:08] So 132 year old house, that's like what? It would be 18, 19 hundreds when it was built.

[00:48:15] Pat Schenk: [00:48:15] Yeah. It was like the first people, like the Cola brothers, I guess, came and started building boats and homes here. And , the big boat shed, which John owns is the, their old boat shed that they used to build. And my house is like right behind it. So I think they built my house to live in while they were working on.

[00:48:39] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:48:39] all those people are dead anyway. So who's going to come to call

[00:48:52] Yeah, they were

[00:49:00] Pat Schenk: [00:49:00] what you told me or I've listened on your podcasts that you just do all your reading through your ears. Yeah. It's way faster. I actually gave that a thought because I thought maybe I could read if I was listening to it.

[00:49:10] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:49:10] Nice. And it's especially if the author's reading it, because then I actually know that they're conveying the right tone. I don't like it when some old British guy is reading me a book that was written by like a young American woman.

[00:49:29] I mean, the voice that's audibly telling you, but it's not the voice that's telling the story. Initially. Even

[00:49:52] So that's important. But yeah, uh, this book called deep river. It's about. Strangely enough, not about deep river, but [00:50:00] it's about the nasal river and like the logging camps that were, and just like the portlet politics and the labor disputes and stuff that, of that time period, probably around the time your house was built.

[00:50:28]which is racist in itself. Right? Like to assume that whiteness makes normal, but yeah, in the book they talk about like the fins and just like some of the cultural stuff that they brought over with them and it was pretty cool, but yeah, they, they sound like fighters is, is what I was getting at.

[00:50:51] Pat Schenk: [00:50:51] Yeah. Well, there's a much less refined world. You had to be a lot more ready.

[00:51:01]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:51:01] I don't know. I remember when I was a kid here in his voice and just being like, who put this motherfucker on TV?

[00:51:11] Pat Schenk: [00:51:11] because of that

[00:51:26] Pat Schenk: [00:51:26] writers. So of noxious. I was just thinking that would be perfect for my, uh, to tell my story.

[00:51:31] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:51:31] reminds me of that movie, the problem child, , with like John Ritter where he adopts a kid, I think Gilbert, Gilbert Godfrey was the adoption agent, but, , yeah, that's neither here nor there. Um, so speaking of books, uh you're uh, you ever think about actually writing a book?

[00:52:01] I have weird ideas for like, I don't know. I just think they're weird that it's like, I always thought it would be kind of fun to get. All the historical noted philosophers on a charter fishing trip out sturgeon fishing on the river because it's such a peaceful thing. And so many things come up as far as interactions with other boat and interactions with mother nature and, and the process of bringing a fish in and, and all the things it would just, I think it'd be really interesting to see how, , all the different philosophies would view all these similar events that they're all experiencing together and how they would turn that into, you know, the reality of what happened on their day.

[00:52:45] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:52:45] that, that sounds like a good, a really a good book or at the very least you could make a really interesting short story. Yeah. It's just, that'd be a great vehicle for communicating these ideas. I think so, too,

[00:53:01] It doesn't even have to be philosophers. It could just be people of different ethnicities, people from different worlds. You know, people from that have experienced completely different lives. And the way that we, they all react to a shared stimulus, I think is kind of an interesting idea in my head, but it just bounces around in there and then it gets lost in the bind.

[00:53:23] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:53:23] bouncing around in mind right now. And I'm there, you know, you got it. Different ways that it could go. I get the credit. It's a good idea. Okay. I picture like, just in the fisheries alone, you get somebody in there. Who's like a biologist with Washington fish and wildlife talking to somebody who's like, well, I mean, if you want to go like really abstract with the, get Socrates in there, Play-Doh, that's somebody who was thinking

[00:53:48] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:53:48] of the commons, and like, just like what it really means to be part of a society and to share in these resources and all that stuff, it'll have to be on

[00:53:57] So they, you know, it's not like you can get away from me [00:54:00] either, you know? So you'll have to, it's not like you could jump off the boat, eh, you know, you're, you're stuck. And so you would have to learn to work through things and, and find some sort of commonality of spine some way to work through all these situations as a shared kind of experience.

[00:54:17] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:54:17] yeah. How do you talk to people who think. Fishing, whether it be commercial fishing or sports fishing. Cause I've heard people talking shit about both. How do you talk to people who are just anti-fishing and they think that they've done damage to the fisheries and the oceans and things like that.

[00:54:52] And I said, yeah, that's I get that. You're, you're totally allowed to that, that thought. Um, but you know, I just say [00:55:00] what I, what we do. I can only go from that viewpoint. Sorry. At this point I might, I can try on the other ones, but I mean, we do entertainment industry, so we're out there, we're selling a trip.

[00:55:28] Nice, nice dude. But he. He was talking about sea lions and how, you know, they should be, you know, spared and all this stuff. And I thought, well, yeah, I guess, but it's not really the fishermen. It's the fishermen is part of the human race because it's the environmental problems. It's not, yeah. It's not the fish hooks and it's not, I mean, the nets can be pretty hurt, you know, pretty good.

[00:55:55] Pat Schenk: [00:55:55] There's, there's a lot of things, but I mean, gosh, back in the day when they did all that, that wasn't a problem. [00:56:00] I mean, it was, and then trying to pair it down, time-wise, isn't maybe the best way to do it. You know, as far as though how long your season is.

[00:56:35] I agree with a lot of this stuff.

[00:56:55] If we're having a problem with the fish, you know, being over-fished or pollution, [00:57:00] making the habitat more and more limited, just don't let people do it anymore. And they might do that with a motherfucking filet of fish in their hands like that people, they don't understand the full picture, right.

[00:57:20] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:57:20] things and all that stuff.

[00:57:23] Pat Schenk: [00:57:23] those things are probably bigger detriment to the, the environment, the, the living Marine environment than, than any of the fisheries. I mean, I would think that people that, as long as it doesn't affect them, they want to change.

[00:57:51] There's been so many headlines in the last two years that about how Roundup is going to cause cancer Roundup, this Roundup that. And then we started seeing those court [00:58:00] rulings where the judges awarding hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties against bear Monsanto for this product without actually having proof that it did anything wrong.

[00:58:37] Like, you can't run an experiment, that's going to give somebody cancer, , just to prove that it has, yeah. That's not ever going to happen. Yeah. You had a hard time finding volunteers. And so It's just like overly complicated, more than anyone can hold in their head and make an informed decision. So because of that, we have to do it as a collective.

[00:59:14] I just think it's important that we kind of try to figure out what we do know and what we don't know, and like, look for the in-between.

[00:59:28] Pat Schenk: [00:59:28] it's, it's different.

[00:59:38] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:59:38] yesterday or today, my son left yesterday. His first time up there.

[00:59:49] These with people that you

[00:59:57] Pat Schenk: [00:59:57] their family. It's all good. Yeah.

[01:00:04] Pat Schenk: [01:00:04] Justice says it's all. It's, it's, it's a really cool experience. It's very frontier Z. It's very, you know, but it doesn't feel dangerous necessarily says it's just kinda, it's

[01:00:15] Yeah. I think the bar crossing the bar out here is probably just as

[01:00:32] They have no business being out across the bar, look like a jet ski, those jet sled, you know, those, um, those guide boats, you know, those, those things aren't made for that, man, they're flat bottom, and so, , they're nice boats.

[01:00:56] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:00:56] like, Jesus, you, yeah. You don't want to mess around with water.

[01:01:02] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:01:02] Yeah. It's really, really not to be fucked with. No. Have you ever done like a long trips?

[01:01:11] Pat Schenk: [01:01:11] No, I wouldn't be. I like to go home every night. I don't like, I. I've never been one to really like being on the boat that long. We used to have to live on the boat when we're fishing at a Newport, because our seasons got so restricted here that we took our boats down to Newport and just lived on our boats and worked the summer down there and the experience cause we met some cool folks and all down there, it was all good.

[01:01:39] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:01:39] be hard, especially if you're, you know, attention scattered all over the place. You've run out of stuff to look at. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. You

[01:01:57] You know, two jobs it's super hard [01:02:00] and you're working 12 hour days. I mean almost every day from sunup to sundown, you're working, you know, getting the boat ready, going out and doing the trip. I mean, the things I usually do in a day, it's just a day, one, one trip a day, but the days are long and you're constantly on stage with your customers, which, I mean, I I've had a great relationship with a lot of my customers, but yeah.

[01:02:28] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:02:28] all the time. Imagine it's especially work on the days when they're not catching their fish.

[01:02:43] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:02:43] Yeah. Go get let down.

[01:02:49] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:02:49] thing every week. It's got their own, I'm digging clams or picking mushrooms or something. You don't want to be out there all day, but you also don't want to just like do it as fast as you can dig 15 claims.

[01:03:03] Pat Schenk: [01:03:03] Yeah. Just kind of breathe it all in it's, , it's an experience you don't want to end too quick. And I feel a little bit guilty on the days when we just roll them. But you know, by that I I'm happy for the David sub 10 hours.

[01:03:20] Pat Schenk: [01:03:20] We have, I remember when your, , when my brother and I were running my dad's boat. He was 19 and I was 17, I think. So people get down to the boat and you know, big. At least my brother's was a little guy and people get on the boat and they see us and we both looked.

[01:03:48] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:03:48] I always had old face. It's the opposite. I mean, even when I was like 12, there's like, you're 16. You look really bad if it sounds rude.

[01:04:01] Pat Schenk: [01:04:01] She's the only guest that you've had that I didn't know at all, but I really, really enjoyed her spirit. She had a lot of energy.

[01:04:12] Like we talked a lot about that, where it's just like trying to focus on the stuff that you enjoy and not focus on the stuff you don't like. It's just like, it was a refreshing conversation. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to try to get more people from outside of the immediate peninsula

[01:04:28] And you're going to grow your audience that way too.

[01:04:38] Pat Schenk: [01:04:38] a lot of people that are just want to be on your show. I was glad when you asked,

[01:04:47] Pat Schenk: [01:04:47] And you can't stand rejection. Ask the easy girl.

[01:04:53]Pat Schenk: [01:04:53] get for something like this, I could, I could get it. Some people just don't want, feel comfortable coming on to talk about stuff. I'm a [01:05:00] little bit tight, but I don't, I feel like I'm not,

[01:05:21] I want people to listen to the show

[01:05:41] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:05:41] know, no one ever picks me up and holds me anymore.

[01:05:43] Pat Schenk: [01:05:43] do it after the show. If you want, we should have Jeff do that for you. He's a big, powerful duties. A lot. He's a lot stronger than I, but I think I could take them cause I'm meaner. Oh

[01:06:00] Pat Schenk: [01:06:00] Yeah. He's a good dude. I remember. I was just thinking when we were at the peninsula learns, bouncing again, this is going to be so hard to edit, but I remember we were at the peninsula learns group and we went down in the, um, what's her name? One of the teachers.

[01:06:29] Oh yeah. And he goes, shank, I got you. You know, come on out here. Cause there's nobody else. Big enough on the peninsula learns program, right? I'm a big dorky dude. So he gets that there. You said you want up or down? I sit down, he said he was going to show the kids , wrestling moves. Well, I'm looking over at the kids who , I'm trying to get to be my fans essentially, you know, w cause I wanted to come to my program and have a good time.

[01:07:08] And I stood up and I fell on my back and pinned him in like 10 seconds.

[01:07:14]Pat Schenk: [01:07:14] He was a good wrestler. He's a kid. He didn't, it was the old man strength thing. And it was also, he didn't expect me to do that.

[01:07:23] Pat Schenk: [01:07:23] thinking, he's doing demonstration for the kids.

[01:07:32] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:07:32] people aren't walking around fighting. Anyway. It seems outdated. You know, it

[01:07:37] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:07:37] should resolve things. No, I can't handle getting punched and I just don't want to do that.

[01:07:43] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:07:43] yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:01] And until we were, I was probably a junior and he was a sophomore in high school before that I was huge and he was tiny. And then that year I just kind of stopped growing and he grew a whole bunch and started lifting weights and like put on weight. And, uh, I think now he probably outweighs me by 30 pounds.

[01:08:24] Pat Schenk: [01:08:24] smack you upside the face. Pretty good. A couple of times as the younger brother.

[01:08:35] I that's what I would usually go with, or I would tell him he was a baby and he cried all the time. If I wanted to hurt his feeling, God

[01:08:50] Yeah, of course. And, uh, I've only been punched once when you're 6, 4, 2 40. You're not really the guy that people pick out is, Hey, let's go punch that guy. You know? [01:09:00] I was just breaking up. A guy was yelling at his girlfriend were like walking around in a pool bar in Portland. And my cousin, I used to go down there and shoot pool.

[01:09:11] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:09:11] was fucking hard.

[01:09:22] But anyhow, this guy comes out of he's yelling at his girlfriend and I said, she's probably not being a bitch. You're probably just a drunk asshole. And you should let her get in a cab and get out of here and cool off. And he goes, stay out of it, man. And he just came up and he started pushing me. And I said, dude, , you're not going to win this.

[01:09:48] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:09:48] Yeah. I wouldn't have taken that deal. I would just gone. Yeah. I don't, especially in public.

[01:09:56]Pat Schenk: [01:09:56] I don't like people yelling at women.

[01:10:03] Pat Schenk: [01:10:03] I heard that one, the crack heads or whatever, over by the maritime museum,

[01:10:11] Yeah. Just like drove down I five, a couple of weeks ago. And I drive down I five regularly because my orthodontist was in Olympia. So I would drive the same route.

[01:10:23] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:10:23] kind of crazy just in the last six months. Yeah. It's gotten worse every time I drive by there's more tarps in the bushes.

[01:10:32] Pat Schenk: [01:10:32] cities and Portland underneath the overpasses on the bridges. And I mean, Yeah, it's, it's definitely a problem. I saw some show where they're talking about it would be cheaper to deal with the homeless if we just built everybody a house.

[01:11:06] And they said it because of what we pay to take care of each individual homeless person, it would be cheaper to build them their own house.

[01:11:25] I'm staying on the streets. Right. That's where my dog lives. Right. It's just like my toilets that sidewalk over there. I can't leave that right there. Crazy. Like there's a legitimate mental health crisis going on and it's, and it's disguised as a homelessness problem. But I really think that there is no easy answer.

[01:11:56] Pat Schenk: [01:11:56] Do you think it's more societaly. Caused or is it [01:12:00] more mental, like a genetic predisposition.

[01:12:06] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:12:06] know yeah.

[01:12:19] They're just like every year, it's like another 50% more of the percentage of kids are how the predisposition toward this, this, this, and this, and, and all these mental health health issues. And it makes me wonder like often is it, and I'm not trying to out there and just blame, it's kind of like, is it parenting or is it like just, uh, a malfunctioning in the brain?

[01:13:08] And I said, Hey, you know what, though? There was a time that guy played catch with his dad for the first time, time somebody's baby. That guy was held in the guy that graduation photo and his first date. And he kissed a girl and this and that, and that person's had all the things in life and then something went wrong, you know, they've had a chance for all that shit.

[01:13:57] And now they're a mumbling, massive [01:14:00] insanity walking down the street, yelling at themselves and kicking things. It's like, and Y yeah, it's, it's just such a sad state. But I mean, when you talk about the homelessness problem, it's you wonder where that starts. You know, it's, it's not that these are adults that suddenly have no home.

[01:14:32] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:14:32] the COVID pandemic. I mean really pushed it over the edge.

[01:14:39] Pat Schenk: [01:14:39] and people notice it cause they're all home, you know? And so they're, they're, they're seeing, you know, they either go out for a walk or whatever and they see, oh my God, you know, people are living here. You know, I remember we went to a God, I just go, I'm sorry. No, please do.

[01:15:08]and we, on the way down there, we got across the border. And we're driving through this kind of desert, , north Mexico area that was undeveloped and there is like refrigerator boxes on the side of the road and people living in them. And I was a fifth grader and I started seeing that I had no idea that this was even a part of the world, you know, that people were living outside in cardboard boxes, and it just made me think, whoa, you know, and, our parents handled it all very well.

[01:15:41] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:15:41] really is luck, too. So sure. Like you were talking about how they were, you know, normal and then something happened, it led to something else happening. And then before you know, it, you got a cascade of events and in your spiral, and

[01:15:58] Yeah. And, and it just keeps [01:16:00] going. And then those kids aren't going to be cared for because it's past the point where those people are able to care for kids. Maybe at one time they would have been great parents. But at that point, They're not able to do the job. Yeah. I mean, it's a job. It's not, it's not just something.

[01:16:18] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:16:18] I did take a picture of him, blah, blah, blah. Part is like the perk, like part that's enjoyable that you share, but yeah, the large portion of it is work. Yeah. Yeah. It's

[01:16:32] And it's true. You have a young, right? Yeah. She three that's awesome, dude. And it's, it's really cool. I told my son all the time you changed my life. You didn't even know it that you completely changed my life. So your son is how old now? 20 years, almost 27 or 28. Shit. I'm bad with things like that.

[01:16:50] I know. I'm pretty sure him and my sister were pretty good buds back in the day. I was

[01:17:00] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:17:00] Yeah, that's what I thought. Um, I had a really mortifying, uh, I don't even know what you'd call it. I mean, I put, I made a fool of myself one time. Um, yeah, so just listen to my podcast. It's okay. Justice was in my house. Uh, he had been like visiting with my sister or whatever, but I don't remember where she was, but I was standing in the room with him and it was just me and him.

[01:17:46] Cause I, in my world that was happening, like actually had just shaved a bunch of my friends' heads. Yeah. That's what we do in rowing shave all the first years, their heads are all bolt, but. But I didn't think about it. I just, I just said, oh, what happened? Like your friends [01:18:00] hold you down and shave your head or something.

[01:18:19] You were very cool about it. And I appreciate that. He's super well adjusted about it. I

[01:18:37] Yeah. And it was hard, you know, he's, he's way more emotionally strong than I am. He's he's a pretty powerful human so,

[01:18:48] Pat Schenk: [01:18:48] No, it crushed him. He cried a little bit about that, but I'm sure visiting Tawny. I couldn't remember. We said some

[01:19:03] If somebody would have mentioned my, uh, Supple breasts in middle school, which I had, they were quite nice. Oh, I remember. Oh yeah. It would have crushed me. I would have been, I would've had a hard time looking anyone in the eye for weeks, like sure. And it's not like I was like, I knew everybody can see I'm chubby it's.

[01:19:27] Pat Schenk: [01:19:27] think about you that they don't see that you're also smart and witty and you know, whatever, you know, all that shit. Cause it just gets pushed aside because you're chubby.

[01:19:56] Pat Schenk: [01:19:56] so many times it's like his mama had it too, so really?

[01:20:02] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:20:02] yeah. Yeah. It's a good thing. He's a handsome boy.

[01:20:13] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:20:13] Yeah. He's that's like an extra

[01:20:16] He's kinda my hero. He's kind of, he does all the, all the things that I wished I would have been brave enough to try to do. And he just does. That's awesome. He's pretty cool.

[01:20:28] Pat Schenk: [01:20:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's never going to happen vertically. Cause you know, he's a midget, but how tall is he?

[01:20:35] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:20:35] I mean, that's pretty

[01:20:42]Jeff Nesbitt: [01:20:42] so are you in a relationship now?

[01:20:59] I've [01:21:00] been told that it's like, it's not all about you. It is today. Yeah. So there you go. Well, you know, you talk a lot to you. Get a little bored waiting for me to shine. I get that a no, but, , so I just I have a tendency to try to make everything about me and that doesn't work in a relationship.

[01:21:22] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:21:22] Yeah, it's a problem. Also, if you try to make it all about them, then you're obsessive. You gotta, it's a balancing act. Yeah. Every day,

[01:21:38] And then it just becomes this weird convoluted kind of mess of a boundary. And it's just kind of a weird, yeah. It's not for me. Yeah. I'm perfectly comfortable being

[01:21:56] Pat Schenk: [01:21:56] not, I mean, not, not really not. I mean, I have my [01:22:00] guy friends, we go do stuff all the time.

[01:22:09] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:22:09] some time. Yeah. I used to get invited when I was a young man by Kim Patton. Oh yeah. Yeah. Kim's still there.

[01:22:19] He's still really good at, yeah, he's pretty active. He's he's out hiking and doing mountain climbing and shit like that. He

[01:22:34] Exactly. Yeah. Living right on the bay there that's there's several days a year where looking out at the bay and I'm just like, that's definitely rollable today. Like most of the time it's not, but some days you get that glassy surface,

[01:22:51] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:22:51] Sometimes I do. Yeah. It's really, it's a really nice kind of cleansing feeling when everything just works.

[01:23:05] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:23:05] actually do much nicer. I would

[01:23:09] I feel like, I'm somewhat athletic, with ball sports and things like that. , , but as far as balance sports, like this thing of like, my son , he's a balance freak. He does all the snowboarding and ski surfing, and it's something that I don't at all either. And, and so even when I'm in a kayak where you're just above the water, especially with my size sitting in a little kayak, I'm pushing the limits of that things, , capacity and. I just always feel like I'm on the edge of tipping over. Yeah. And so, but I would like to get more into it, like go to the shark river or something, just go up and back.

[01:23:50] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:23:50] spot. It is. It's beautiful out there. We've kayaked , the Chinook river a few times. It's pretty nice.

[01:24:09] I know. They'll just tip right over.

[01:24:13] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:24:13] pontoon there's outriggers. Okay. So like, I mean there's various different kinds, right? But

[01:24:26] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:24:26] society. Yeah.

[01:24:29] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:24:29] The Ivy leagues are what people think of when they hear about rowing.

[01:24:36] Pat Schenk: [01:24:36] living in Seattle, I crossed the bay everyday. Cause I lived in, um, I lived downtown and, uh, Ballard and I worked in Bellevue. So I had to cross the lake every day and I'd see the boats out there practicing and such. And it just, it looks amazing.

[01:24:52] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:24:52] best programs. I got a letter

[01:25:12] They come up and get a

[01:25:15] Pat Schenk: [01:25:15] Yeah. I think they went, they went to the state tournament. They just got all the guys that were over six feet. I think he just said, we'll send him a letter or whatever. I mean maybe a good way to do it. Yeah. So, but it

[01:25:29] These guys are all huge.

[01:25:53] It's just like, holy shit. These are a different kind of creature. They're all because they're all. Big, but they're also [01:26:00] all like, jacked. They're not like big in the same way. You'd see a big foot, right?

[01:26:06] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:26:06] Yeah. Yeah. Like it's a different kind of fit.

[01:26:24] You went for it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I had a blast.

[01:26:30] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:26:30] Yeah. Yeah. I learned a ton. It actually kind of built some of the foundation of who I am as an adult of course.

[01:26:54] Pat Schenk: [01:26:54] for, from cramping and just right after a drink, also the electrolyte drinks and all that

[01:27:01] Like that's the competition distance, which only takes between six and seven minutes to complete a course like that. That's a long

[01:27:10] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:27:10] That's like being at a full hundred percent sprint for six and a half, seven minutes. And at the end, I I've heard people have always said this.

[01:27:41] And that is huge. Uh, I would not trade that for anything.

[01:27:50] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:27:50] easier. Yeah. I was friends with that stuff too.

[01:27:59] Everybody's [01:28:00] been through that shit together. Shared experiences,

[01:28:14], also given all the instructions through a little microphone, she, or he will either sit at the front of the back and they're the only person in the boat who can see where you're going and everyone else is facing the same direction. So if somebody who's sitting in the bow likes number one or two seat, if they fart the entire boat is going straight through that far cloud, it's no escaping it.

[01:28:39] Pat Schenk: [01:28:39] And plus that motion is going to push those out. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. It happens off. Cause you got the sliding seats and

[01:28:53]Have you ever inhaled a fart as your breath and not just like, you didn't just smell it, but you've tasted with your lungs. I went through a phase. Oh my [01:29:00] God. Horrible. But you get to know those guys really well. And it's another , bonding experience .

[01:29:11] Pat Schenk: [01:29:11] shout out, man. Shout out, Matt, if you got this,

[01:29:27] And he usually would say yes, even if he doesn't

[01:29:31] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:29:31] he didn't. Yeah. Just makes it a lot easier. Yeah. His dad was actually what was the traveling team that went around for the Harlem globe Trotters.

[01:29:39] Generals. Yeah, the Washington generals.

[01:29:59] It was [01:30:00] weird. And like the whole wedding was just full of giant people. ,

[01:30:09] And they were all like a couple inches taller than I was, which was weird because tall people on a boat is kind of a weird thing. Yeah. And because it's not built for tall people, the cabin short and all that stuff, but it was weird, but I kind of liked it. Not being the tallest person on board.

[01:30:42] Really. No, it's true. The, uh, it, it, it is a little weird because you, you are always hunched in. People's like, well, your, your posture is not very good as well. I talk to people all day. I don't wanna scare everyone, so I don't want to stand above them like this. Like I'm some big, proper British, you know, whatever, just kind of, oh, you little people and, [01:31:00] and, uh, so it, it, I just got

[01:31:03] You should do that. I say you don't want people to think

[01:31:14]Jeff Nesbitt: [01:31:14] Yeah. Yeah. Do I totally know what you mean? And it's, it's funny cause I'm not crazy tall, but um, I do that.

[01:31:44] And for no reason, they didn't do anything wrong. And I was just mad at the world and I grew my hair out and started wearing ripped jeans and wanted everybody to leave me alone. And I remember you at that phase. Yeah, I don't, I mean, that's just [01:32:00] teenage angst, I guess, but for some reason I just slouched for like five years just to avoid detection.

[01:32:26] Yeah. Cars aren't made for us. No, they're not made for you they're they're made for people like 500. Yeah,

[01:32:39]Jeff Nesbitt: [01:32:39] It is kind of a special thing to be tall and big.

[01:32:56] So, I mean, I grew very,

[01:33:00]Pat Schenk: [01:33:00] I grew until I was like 20. Wow. When I was like a freshmen in high school or eighth grade, I got to be type one diabetic. Oh shit. So I, my, my body was like starving to death, even though I was eating all the time.

[01:33:33] It should, you know, fire off. But so basically I was starting to, you were saying you were chubby. I had the opposite thing. I was like, I could, I had no musculature on my body at all. I was like, when I started growing, it was very scared Crow, Zoe. Cause by the time I would graduated high school, I was like, I graduated at 17, but I was like, I was like six, three, and like 140 pounds and pretty [01:34:00] gangly.

[01:34:10] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:34:10] Does ganglia shank boys do a mean 800 meter?

[01:34:34] And that track team had my brother and then a bunch of guys from my class who were all very good athletes. We had a lot of good athletes in my class. Yeah. I was athletic, but I was so scrawny.

[01:34:45] Pat Schenk: [01:34:45] difference. It was, yeah, it was weird. When I came back a couple of years after I got my diabetes under a little better control, and I was able to put on some weight.

[01:35:18] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:35:18] So yeah, you probably had to learn the technical parts of the game before you could use your weight,

[01:35:36] But just as a human, it's weird going through life six foot three and 140 pounds. You're just like, everyone else is getting strong and you're going, what the fuck, man? Where's my muscles. How come I'm not there yet. But it was nice when they finally started coming on. Not that I ever got like Hilton or anything.

[01:35:55] Pat Schenk: [01:35:55] I wouldn't want that in all honesty.

[01:36:02] Pat Schenk: [01:36:02] It's been year huge factor in my life. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a really fucked up disease. Cause you can do everything by the book and you'll just have a crazy spell where your sugar will just jump or it'll drop, it'll do some weird ass stuff, you know, and it's just.

[01:36:26] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:36:26] I remember a story of your brother telling when I was in like sixth or seventh grade about like you went into a coma at school or something like that. . Did that happen?

[01:36:39] And then I woke up on a table and I've had I've, I've lost consciousness, probably seven or eight times in my life due to it. One of the times I was at justices mom's house. We were living together. And, I stepped up on the futon when I was having a low blood sugar kind of trip out there.

[01:37:18] So, but. Yeah, it's been a big, it's been a big part. This has made life so much easier. It's a little on-board computer where I just scan it with my phone. It tells me what my sugar is doing, whether it's raising or dropping or whatever. So I

[01:37:37] Pat Schenk: [01:37:37] that's a different thing.

[01:37:49] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:37:49] So you do inject insulin? Yeah. Okay. That sucks. You must have to do that. How often?

[01:38:09] Nope. Nobody's in my house. And so I just, ah, I kind of want to snack, so I'll just snack and I'll just, I don't eat meals. And when I do eat meals, it's just at a random time. And so my doctor has said, that's completely amped up for a type one diabetic. Yeah.

[01:38:25] Pat Schenk: [01:38:25] no, you're right.

[01:38:27] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:38:27] procedure. That's how I do it too. And yeah, not great for me.

[01:38:44] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:38:44] I mean we're we're hunter gatherers.

[01:38:45] Pat Schenk: [01:38:45] Yeah. We didn't like say, okay, go, you know, hunt the saber tooth and have it back here and we're going to cook it at six 40. Yeah, no, it doesn't, you know, I don't think it's just, when you find your food,

[01:38:56] Pat Schenk: [01:38:56] you fill up your basket and you bring back for the tribe and you eat what [01:39:00] you eat. And it's just not really, I don't think we're that way either.

[01:39:04] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:39:04] on that. Yeah. We're talking about food. , yeah, I got all kinds of issues around food. Food is where I find a lot of comfort. Well, you were a chubby kid. Exactly.

[01:39:15] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:39:15] Yeah. And I still I'm like, I'm also a foodie. I love food. Like I find it very, uh, satisfying on a, more than just like a enjoyment level.

[01:39:33] Pat Schenk: [01:39:33] No, I, it doesn't really

[01:39:35] The ketogenic I'm sorry. Yeah. So like where you kind of force your body to burn fat as its main fuel source over carbohydrates.

[01:39:57] Pat Schenk: [01:39:57] I talked to the receptionist on the way they [01:40:00] said that you're you just, just got your license. So, anyway,

[01:40:11] But you, I, the way I did it is I would intermittent fast. So I'd stop eating at 8:00 PM, go to bed, , skip breakfast and then, , not eat again until noon the next day. And the first couple of weeks, it's horrible. , cause I'm like a morning donut guy. I like a morning donut. Even when I'm not hungry, I still find myself wanting to go get one, just cause it's something I look forward to be somewhat

[01:40:40] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:40:40] and you're worried about it.

[01:40:52] Preferentially over fat because it's easier. And it's like the fast burn fuel. And we're not really supposed to have [01:41:00] that all the time. Cause in the ancestral environment, you like fruit only grew on trees part of the year. And like, there's really not that much sugar around. So it was a treat and like the only preservable sugar was like honey.

[01:41:32] And if you have that in your system, your body will choose it because it's easier to burn, but if you don't have it, so that's where the fasting comes in. Your body starts to starve and it goes into that response where it will start looking for food and it goes to your fat cells and it pulls them and pulls them into the liver and breaks them down into ketone bodies.

[01:42:15], and. It's a good system, and again, I didn't put a lot of thought into the diabetic part because I'm not diabetic. And, but I feel like I remember it talking about it, having like some pretty good results in some people, but were worth looking into, at least it, if you're, if you're the type of person who likes to experiment with your body and your food, which I am, it's fun, but, um, it's a little, it's a little dangerous in my shoes, but imagine, so I would definitely talk to a doctor first.

[01:43:08] You know, just kind of a weird thing, but I can just say, you know, I'll just go on that diet. I'll just go into like ketosis, ketosis, and just that's the ketosis

[01:43:21] Pat Schenk: [01:43:21] it. And probably under observation, that'd probably be to be a bad idea, but I don't really care that I'm a little chunky.

[01:43:28] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:43:28] Yeah. You don't even seem chunky out. I would. And that's actually why I stopped doing it is cause it's, it's almost too effective for fat burning. Like I don't need to burn all the fat. It's just, uh, I liked the, I liked the way it made me feel and I liked the fact that it got rid of sugar Creek.

[01:44:04] Like

[01:44:09] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:44:09] Yeah. But yeah, I've lost consciousness a few times. Um, from what I assume to be blood sugar related. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

[01:44:21] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:44:21] done when I was younger, it would happen all the time actually.

[01:44:43] Last time I was with my buddies and we were coming up from Humboldt county, uh, where, where I did my freshman year down there and we were on our way up and I had given blood, I donated blood that day. So that, that's the thing that sent me back to the

[01:45:00] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:45:00] Yeah.

[01:45:20] He had a brother, Chad. They were like, uh, honestly, oh yeah, it's still recording the, they were super fucking tough, like really tough kids. Um, very nice kind of quiet, but just like, that's the thing I think most people probably associate them with the most is like, don't fuck with the Jenkins. Brothers

[01:45:41] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:46:03] And apparently I had passed out and he was like, don't move, don't move. The ambulance is on their way. And I was just like ambulance. And I was like, I had no money. I couldn't pay for an ambulance. Right. Um, and they, they do that anyhow. Oh, I know. And they'll figure out a way to send you that bill. And um, yeah, I just, like, I was like, get off me.

[01:46:32] Pat Schenk: [01:46:32] gets weird because I always fight him to not take me to the hospital in the ambulance too. Cause I went for years without health insurance, as a diabetic is a bad thing, but it's gotta be stressful.

[01:47:02] At first, you know, it was like overweight, you know, it was like overweight women over 40 were the ones that got type two diabetes back when I first got diabetes. Now it's like little kids even.

[01:47:17] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:47:17] That's probably the main thing. Big. Yeah. That's probably the only reason I'm not obese is because I play a lot. I'm always outside. You got kids to play with. Yeah. And they're active. They're like, I think most kids probably are. If, if you let them be

[01:47:32] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:47:32] them.

[01:47:48] Pat Schenk: [01:47:48] type one? You just have a malfunction, genetically, generally it's genetic, you know, condition where you're, uh, you just quit making insulin.

[01:48:30] Um, and you have nothing to break it down, except for artificial insulin. You get exercise all day. It won't make a single bit of difference. If you don't have any insulin, the roads are blocked. Right? Insulin is like the key that opens up the, the, the cell, you know, without, without it, it just can't do anything except for circulate through.

[01:48:57] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:48:57] essentially. And you get resistant to the stuff you do make, [01:49:00] right? You do.

[01:49:11] So you always it's, it's always in flux, you know? And the worst part is that sometimes you'll take a shot and it'll get stuck in a little pocket. Oh yeah. A fat or whatever in your system. And it won't release. And so you're running way, way high. And then you take another shot and another shot trying to get your sugar to come down.

[01:49:48] Is

[01:49:49] Pat Schenk: [01:49:49] injection? No, it's a, it's a, it it's between the fat layer in the muscles. Subcutaneous.

[01:50:01] Pat Schenk: [01:50:01] windows. It's a little window. And sometimes it, it, it hits a spot where it absorbs quickly and other times it hits a spot where it doesn't absorb for a couple hours.

[01:50:21] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:50:21] yeah. Phil diabetes humor.

[01:50:28] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:50:28] It has been two hours. Oh shoot. I

[01:50:33] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:50:33] I know. I know. Um, did we miss anything that we want to hit before we get outta here?

[01:50:42] Pat Schenk: [01:50:42] started up like 50 of them. Yeah, probably about two steps in and shifted gears.

[01:50:52] Pat Schenk: [01:50:52] asking me and I appreciated that.

[01:50:56] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:50:56] Yeah. All right, everybody. Thank you for listening and I'll talk to you next time. [01:51:00] Bye.