You finally nailed your messaging. Your offer makes sense. People are signing up. And then you launch your group program, or step on a stage, or start a podcast, and suddenly none of it works anymore. What happened?

This is the final episode in our seven part Maslow's Mountain series, and it might be the most important one. Adam and Jess close out the series by naming the exact thing that trips up coaches right after they've had success: they treat what they learned like a checklist. Check the box, move on, forget it ever happened. Then they step into a new space, a new offer, a new stage, and they climb right back to the top of the mountain they just spent six episodes learning to climb down from.

Adam calls it language creep. Jess calls it the now what problem. Either way, it's the same pattern. You build a one to one practice using Maslow's hierarchy to meet your avatar where they are. It works. Then you launch a group program, or get invited to speak, or start a podcast, and you go right back to summit language. "I built this incredible framework." "Here's everything I've accomplished." And the audience you're now in front of doesn't speak that language, because they're standing somewhere completely different on the mountain than you are.

What You'll Learn:

• Why "checklist thinking" is the most common reason coaches lose momentum right after a win
• The difference between the mountain you climbed and the mountain you're climbing next, and why your messaging has to reset for each one
• Why authority on a stage doesn't come from sounding smart, and why over explaining actually loses your audience
• How to use Maslow's hierarchy as an audit tool for slide decks, ad copy, funnels, and anything else you put in front of your avatar
• The real difference between being an educator and being an influencer, and why neither should be your identity
• A practical way to use AI to prepare for podcast guest appearances, keynotes, or any new platform by feeding it your messaging and asking for an audit, not a generic summary
• Why this entire seven part series comes down to one sentence: it's not about you

The Big Idea:

Every time you move to a new "mountain," whether that's launching a group program, stepping on a stage, or starting a podcast, your avatar resets to their own base camp. Your framework, your payoff, even your credibility can stay the same. But your language has to meet them where they are, not where you are. The coaches who keep winning are the ones who keep auditing their messaging against Maslow's hierarchy every single time they show up somewhere new.

Notable Quote:

"You don't have to look good and be right to gain authority. Your feet being on the stage already give you authority." - Jess Webber

Resources Mentioned:

• Story Brand and Hero on a Mission by Donald Miller, referenced as ongoing filters for hero vs. guide positioning
• Get Paid to Coach free guide at ilovecoachingco.com/get-paid-to-coach
• $10K+ Coaching Offer Challenge at ilovecoachingco.com/challenge
• REAL Coach Method Membership at ilovecoachingco.com/discover
• Instagram: @ilovecoachingco / @adamrroach / @coachjesswebber
• YouTube: youtube.com/@ilovecoachingco

Join the Community:

If you're building a coaching business, already running one, or just starting to think about it, ILC has resources for wherever you are. Free guides, live and virtual events, and a community built specifically for coaches who want something that's actually theirs. Find it all at ilovecoachingco.com.

Jess, I feel like this is like a graduation.

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We are on episode seven of seven, talking about Maslow's mountain.

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Talking about the mountain that we have been climbing for like the last, what, almost two

months in educational space.

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And though today we get to talk about.

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A challenge that we watch coaches go through, and that is once they learn this process and

they learn it in, let's say, this the space of one to one, and then they want to

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transition to a one to many, or some people like to say group coaching, they forget it and

they get back on top of the mountain again and they just do it all over again.

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So today we're gonna talk about how not to basically fall off the mountain.

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Why don't we say it that way?

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How not to fall off mountain?

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Yeah, I mean, really truly for me, it's a now what or what's next situation.

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Because most people believe that when they are taught something and they're in the process

of learning, it's almost like a checklist.

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And then once they put the last check mark on, it's like you forget everything you just

learned.

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It's like I I did the thing that I needed to do in order to earn the check mark in the

box.

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But then they don't turn around and reference that completed checklist over and over and

over again, which is what you should be doing in this space.

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This is this, I love this series for many different reasons, though.

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Go back to episode one and listen to what really Maslow is again, if you need clarity

there, because this should resonate with you for the rest of time.

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Right?

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This should be when you are in your coaching space.

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Maslow should be with you at all times.

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Whether that is you launching a one-on-one or a one-to-many, whether that is you in a

coaching space.

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I mean, sometimes even on coaching calls, Jess, I have to slow down to realize where the

client is.

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But go back to number one, the episode of this series, and just make sure that you have a

real understanding on what that is, because we do have tendencies to transition now in our

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business from okay, growth mode of one-on-one, checkbox done.

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I now can speak to that one on one coaching client.

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in a Maslow way and now I'm gonna go into my one to many and I go right back to the

mountaintop.

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Mm, yeah.

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I I laugh because I think it's just one of those things that naturally happens.

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It, you know, we talk about scope creep and telling people to create offers and not let

the scope creep outside of the offer, but this is like language creep to me.

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And and so what we find is like people will do all of this work in the current space that

they're in.

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Mm-hmm.

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they they will internalize them the mountain and they will understand Maslow language and

all of the things and they make all this effort with wherever they are currently planted.

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So, like you said, one to one, one to many, whatever.

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But then the second that they step outside of that space, it's like I said, they ignore

the checklist, they forget everything they've learned, and they just go back to like the

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old habits that die hard and they let the language creep because maybe they're technically

on a different mountain now.

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And it's like, no, you have to do this every single time to stay relevant, to stay

relatable, to convert without sales.

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Yeah.

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Well, and we can take this in so many different directions because as I mentioned,

one-on-one, when you're in the coaching space, right, this is where Maslow is being used.

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When you're establishing and building your one-to-many, right, that's we call that the

peers space.

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You've got to understand how you're going to attract people into it.

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And episode number two, which is the second most important one of this series, is the

payoff.

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When you are transitioning from mountain to mountain, as just talked about there, you've

got to understand that that payoff needs to be massively clear, aligned with the avatar,

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and resonate with them where they are on the Maslow Mountain.

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And watch this one.

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Phase four, Jess, is a whole nother mountain that when you are climbing that, phase four,

when I say phase four, I mean on our blueprint, that is when you are literally exposing

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yourself on different platforms, whether that's keynote speaking, podcasting, that you may

make it the you show.

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And when you start to make it the you show, you will get very aspirational in language.

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But if you can slow down.

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And realize that even when you're given a keynote speech, number two episode, which is

payoff, keynote speech still has to have a payoff.

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It still has to have something that the audience wants to listen to.

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But if you go up there and you're now creating even more exposure for yourself, more

authority for yourself, and you're in the highest trust mechanism, which is a keynote

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speech or on a stage, and if you go up there with high maslow, I'm on top of the mountain,

aspirational type of language.

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Whoa wall, you're going to lose the audience.

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I I find that such a fascinating thing in in the keynote specifically speaking space, but

it translates everywhere, is you don't have to look good and be right to gain authority.

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Your feet being on the stage already give you authority.

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And so the people who get up on the stages and are like, I need to like wow them with my

vocabulary or the depth and breadth of the knowledge and data that I have.

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The more that you put out there, the more likely they are to quit listening and not pay

attention.

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Like less is truly more in this instance.

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And and so when you're trimming the fat and and focusing on the less, you have to make

sure that that less lands.

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And that's what we're talking about here with Maslow's hierarchy of needs and everything

is being intentional with the small amount that you're putting forward being the best foot

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forward for you.

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In terms of being able to connect.

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Yeah.

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And that just that that actually goes to episode number three, the messaging, right?

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That is the messaging.

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Or that is the messaging problem, which we talked about in that episode.

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Is that is next to the payoff, when you have that, when you have your messaging, and you

realize now in which phase, again, I'm gonna keep using that language from our blueprint.

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Phase two is one-on-one, phase three is one to many, phase four is massively expanding

your authority on different stages, whether that's book writing, whether that's keynoting,

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whether that's podcasting, whether that's guests on podcasting, you've got to realize that

your messaging.

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Mm-hmm.

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to be ideal for that avatar that is listening.

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And I loved what the brand we have a brand builder builder coach back in the day and and I

love what she said about getting on podcasts.

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This this was fascinating.

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I think we talked about it a little bit earlier today.

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Is podcasts are such a great platform

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As being a guest, for you to go start to build your authority in other people's lanes, but

also build your authority on a specific topic, as you talked about.

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And that's what she would always say is hey, go on podcasts to work on your keynotes.

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And what I've caught myself, Jess, and this is just me being transparent here, is I think

now year to date, I've been on almost 30 podcasts as a guest, which is really kind of

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cool.

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Holy cow, was my messaging a cluster, you know what?

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When I got on there, I was like,

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Woo-hoo, I'm on top of the mountain.

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I get to share what I've done in successes.

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And I'm like, oh, pause, pause, pause, pause.

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That's not what we're doing.

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You're not doing that.

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You actually have to understand the messaging, the payoff, and the avatar that's listening

to this.

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So you better do some research before you get on that podcast of who it is, what they're

doing, so that you can show up and not be on top of that mountain.

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Right.

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Well, that's such a huge piece of this as somebody is growing and let yet leveraging what

we've taught them over the last seven episodes is understanding where is your mountain

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actually living, like who's surrounding it, who's climbing it, who's guiding up it, and

being intentional, like you said, researching so that your framework may stay the same,

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your payoff may stay the same, but you're speaking to the person who's

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Currently at the base, not who you're assuming is at the base.

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And I think that right there shows a level of thought and intentionality that most fast

thinking, you know, visionary people struggle with.

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And in the past, you would have needed team members to go do that research for you or

things like that.

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Now, in today's world, you can get a summary in five minutes with AI.

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But

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Building out the understanding of who you are, what you do, and having that payoff and

that messaging and all of this language allows you to audit through your lens, not just

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give me a generic summary, but it's like, hey, give me a summary that I can specifically

speak to based on my positioning.

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And that is what will change the game for coaches who keep Maslow's Mountain in mind.

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So here's here's a pro tip.

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Pause us right now, rewind what Jess just said.

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By the way, I don't think we have rewinds anymore.

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Push the 10 minus backwards and go listen to what she said.

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Take those as prompts, right?

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Take those as prompts, go throw them into whatever AI agent you're using and allow that to

become a resource for yourself to prepare, right?

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To prepare.

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Because one thing that Jess we see consistently is coaches will step into this space and

because they're coming from a space that they realize they have great authority in, will

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wing it.

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And winging it, you guys, is is outside of the scope of what we call real, right?

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Real is relevant, experiential, authentic leadership.

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And that A right there is if you're winging it, you're not authentic, right?

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Sure, you're you're you're shooting from the hip.

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But take Jess's language that she just shared, create prompts out of it, put that into

your AI agent, whatever you're please don't tell me you're still using Chat GPT, by the

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way.

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Put that into your AI agent and engage in preparation for the who's you're going to be in

front of so that your language and your messaging can land at the right point at the right

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spot of the mountain that they are on, not you are on.

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That's so huge.

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I mean, if you got anything out of this seven-part series, like that's it right there.

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Is understand that this is not about you.

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I mean, truly, truly, it is so easy to get distracted by your excitement or your, you

know, creative juices or whatever.

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But at the same time, none of this is about you.

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And that's what it boils down to is having an awareness of you, but creating messaging,

language, payoff, you know, uh, offers, whatever it is, for the people that you're looking

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to serve and knowing what they need.

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And I that's why you said earlier something about it's not for you, you know, and I was

laughing because I was like, it's called YouTube, you know, if you're watching this.

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And yet it's not a

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about you.

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It's you putting yourself out there and like shifting that perspective when it comes to

putting yourself out there is so powerful because it's not meant to be performative.

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It's meant to be connective.

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Right.

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Well, and that's that is so good too, because you have to identify you being the coach.

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Um, do you want to be performative?

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Right?

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Because a lot of us, again, I'm putting my hand, I'm raising my hand.

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Back in the day with the social media world, we would perform.

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Right?

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You get on there and you'd want it to be about you.

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You'd want it to be look at the blueprint I have created, right?

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You'd want it to be about you.

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And with maturity and with understanding of this industry comes, it can be from you,

though it's not for you.

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And at the same time, you need to realize that everything that you're doing in this space,

as Jess and I are showing you through seven episodes right here, this is about you.

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Right?

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This is about you, the listener.

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This is about you, the watcher.

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This is about you who are building.

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We know who our avatar is, who are building coaching businesses.

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And the moment you step into a performative state, you're making it about yourself and

you're probably getting way up on that mountaintop.

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And people are like, that was cute, but not really for me.

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Or just the other thing that we see is um which is what really social media is about, is

they w they're they try to be entertaining, right?

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And we talk about this all the time.

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Are you trying to be someone of value ad?

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Or you're trying to be someone that is an influencer.

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And and you do have to understand between those two characters which one you're trying to

be, because again, the influencer, they can add some value, but the influencer's making it

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about them for entertainment's sake.

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Right?

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They're jumping off bridges.

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They're they're they're playing with kitty cats, right?

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Well, whatever.

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Well, their focus is a vanity metric.

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How many followers do I have or how many likes do I have?

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So to me it's more about influencer versus like educator.

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And the educator is how many people raised their hand and said that helped me and I want

more.

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So are you influencing or are you educating?

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And neither of those should be

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Like your only focus by any means.

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Because I think that naturally when you choose heavy on one side, you you get distracted

by that as well.

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And you take it on as an identity rather than somebody who's owning their outcome and

being intentional with sharing it in a way that could be entertaining, but it's not their

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sole focus.

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Right.

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And a great example of that.

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This is not a knock.

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This is truly a an incredible feat.

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Mr.

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Beast hit 500 million, right?

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500 million viewers and engaged of his entertainment content.

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Right?

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Entertainment content.

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And that that's really cool.

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Though when you think about what he does, he is entertaining in his space.

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And we're talking about educating.

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We're talking about educating that is specific to whatever problem solution cycle you have

to offer.

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That's what we are talking about in this series.

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This this whole seven series podcast shows that we've been doing here is this is all about

educating for your avatar.

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Yep.

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Cool.

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All right, Jess, this was fun.

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This this this seven-part series of Maslow's Mountain.

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From Maslow, what is it, to the payoff, to the messaging problem, to the marketing that

will work without you.

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That's episode four.

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Episode five was the Avatar problem.

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Last episode that we just had was proof that it works.

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And now we are educating you on paying attention as you shift to different mountains,

making sure that you still understand the first six episodes here.

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Cool.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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Jess, anything else to add?

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This was good.

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No, I mean, really, that is the gist of it, is it's not difficult.

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It's just something that you have to go back to consistently.

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And so it is not a one and done situation.

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And when you can internalize the process, internalize the mountain, and create some sort

of system of checks and balances for yourself to audit what you're doing and what you're

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saying against it, I think it's going to make things a lot easier for you.

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So if you're building a slide deck for a presentation that you're giving in person, run it

against Maslow's hierarchy of needs based on your avatar.

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And see where it lands.

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Is it too much at the top of the mountain or or is the messaging right?

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If you're creating ad copy or a funnel, it's the same thing.

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Run it against the mountain.

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Figure out where the messaging lands.

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You know, you and I have used Story Brand and Hero on a Mission, Donald Miller books, as

filters for ourselves.

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Right.

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Of are we showing up as heroes or guides, right?

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Are we showing up as victims or heroes?

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All of that kind of stuff.

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And I think that using Maslow's hierarchy of needs is just another great filter that you

as a coach or individual can use to audit what you're doing in the moment and not feel

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like you have to master all of it, but at least have awareness around it enough to do that

check.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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That's really, really good.

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All right, let's land this plane, Jess.

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We're good.

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This was a good one.

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Well, hey, if you are somebody that is building a coaching business, has a coaching

business, you know, or would like to start one, we have some resources over at I

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LoveCoaching Co.com for people, no matter where they are in their coaching journey.

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We've got free PDFs, we've got events that are live and in person as well as virtual.

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And we would love to have you join us.

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So I lovecoachingco.com, find us up there.

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Yep, go go go play, go hang, and we'll see you next time.

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See ya.

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Bye.

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Bye.