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41 — Trans: A Conversation with Helen Joyce
Episode 4117th September 2021 • Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast • Stella O'Malley & Sasha Ayad
00:00:00 01:11:52

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The New York Times describes Helen Joyce’s book, Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality, as “an intelligent, thorough rejoinder to an idea that has swept across much of the liberal world seemingly overnight.” Joyce reminds us that her book is not about trans people, but rather, it is about the idea “that people should count as men or women according to how they feel and what they declare, instead of their biology.” Helen explains the ways it’s more acceptable for men to “give up some privilege” and strategies women in other cultures have used to opt out of unfavorable circumstances. Perhaps denying sex leads to a perfectly clear demonstration of just how different men and women can be. We also reflect on the differences between American’s tendency to double-down on bad policy and the hopefulness Helen feels with the unfolding UK reckoning with gender self-ID. In this episode, we discuss the many ramifications of “you are exactly who you say you are.”

Links:

Helen Joyce’s Website: 

Thehelenjoyce.com

Helen on Twitter: Twitter.com/HJoyceGender

 

Book Review by Jesse Singal 

Nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

 

Helen’s interview with Andrew Doyle:

Youtube.com/watch?v=KAYR8GUJsqo

 

Stella’s Book Review in The Evening Standard: 

Standard.co.uk/culture/books/trans-when-ideology-meets-reality-helen-joyce-review-b944183.html

 

Becoming Julia (Gender Transition Documentary): 

YouTube.com/watch?v=kNjV37vp5qk

 

The End of the World is Flat by Simon Edge: 

Eye-books.com/books/the-end-of-the-world-is-flat

 

Survivorship Bias: 

En.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

 

Small Gods by Terry Pratchett: 

Terrypratchettbooks.com/books/small-gods

 

Extended Notes:

  • NY Times reviewed Helen’s new book, Trans, and Sasha is even in the book!
  • Helen didn’t even think her book would get published because of its taboo topic.
  • Are people fascinated with gender or with sex?
  • Non-binary people are trying to redefine everybody and trying to change a “fundamental truth.” Of course, it gets people upset.
  • What is the difference between transsexualism and gender self-ID?
  • This book is not about trans people, it’s a book about ideology.
  • If being trans was an ideology, a belief system, that’d be okay. However, this movement is trying to change gender facts, and that’s a harder thing to get behind.
  • Right now it’s very difficult to determine what stance is going to be on “the right side of history.”
  • The trans movement is structured as “the next thing” that needs to be liberated from oppression. However, will it be?
  • Why do men commit more transphobic acts than women?
  • People say that when you call people trans, you’re committing cultural imperialism. Helen expands on this.
  • Children are suddenly baby adults. When did this happen? What happened to the mother/child bond?
  • People think we can overcome natural human problems with technology. We’d like to think we’re above it, but human instincts/nature will always take over.
  • People like to think we’re like lego pieces; easily replaceable body parts.
  • If you are a male that wants to be female, the truth is, you can’t be. What does that mean for you? It means you have to remake the world.
  • Historically, men have been the dominant ruler. By becoming female, you’re giving up power. In society, this is allowed. The same is not true if the genders were reversed.
  • If you change your legal sex from female to male, that does not change your position in legal inheritance. (Which is traditionally important in aristocracies.)
  • Helen is aware that she left a lot of things out in the book. It’s not a complete body of work. There’s so much to talk about in this ecosphere.
  • Helen wrote about what’s happening to trans people in Canadian prisons. It’s horrible, but it’s actually much worse in the United States.
  • People think Helen is a social conservative. Helen says women are not the same as men, but it’s being translated to her thinking women are inferior to men. That’s not true.
  • Helen is very, very worried about the U.S. and how they’re handling this topic.
  • Helen addresses the NY Times criticisms of her book.
  • Who is this book for? It’s for people who want to understand the changing trans landscape.

This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

Rethinkime.org


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