This week on Film Center News we talk to Coco Li and her journey to Moving to the U.S from China and becoming a production designer!

This is Film Center, your number one show for real entertainment industry news.

No fluff, all facts.

Now, here are your anchors, Derek Johnson II and Nicholas Killian.

Hey everyone at the Film Center, my name is Derek Johnson II.

I'm Nicholas Killian.

And what are we doing today, Nicholas?

Today, we are talking to a very special guest.

Could you please introduce yourself?

Hi everyone, my name is Coco Lee.

I'm currently at downtown Burbank with Derek and Nick.

Yeah!

What's going on Kelko?

It's been a beautiful day after several days of rain in L.

A.

Yeah.

And finally the sun came out, so Yeah, finally you can walk around.

It's not flooding everything.

We, Kelko, as you guys know, this show is on the road.

We go to different places around Los Angeles and around Burbank.

Where, what is this place called again?

We're at a bakery.

I don't know what the bakery is called.

We're at a bakery.

It's very delicious.

It's a classroom.

It's in downtown Burbank on the corner of Alla and San Fernando.

So that's all you need to know.

Coco she messaged me.

She was like, this is a secret place that most people don't know about.

So I guess we should keep it secret.

Yeah.

Now that all the rain and everything, we haven't drowned.

Where are you from, Coco?

I'm originally made in China.

You were made in China.

She was built there.

She was designed in China.

I was raised in China.

I went to America for MFA studying.

Since 2015.

Me and Coco went to the same film school.

Yes.

Yeah.

And we went to the same program.

Disney Coco.

Before Nightfall, which is such a coincidence.

Yeah, I, as you guys know, cause I talk about my experience at Disney

before, Coco was there at the, DCP, the Disney College Program, when I was.

We just worked in different parts.

Yeah.

It was crazy.

It was crazy.

We were meant to meet each other.

Yeah.

After the college program, I applied for NYFA.

I went to the MFA Filmmaking Program.

The first year was in New York campus.

And it was great.

And after graduation, for one year program, I went to, I moved to Los

Angeles for the second year of master.

What made you go from New York to L.

A.?

What was the, why did you want to make that?

I think the industrial is better built in L.

A.

Yeah.

Also, since I started my dream in Disney, so I would love to work for Disney.

That's my lifetime goal.

Yeah, to work for Disney.

And you know what?

You're in the right place.

You're in the right place.

One other thing I want to know is, You came over from China.

Did you come by yourself?

Yeah.

Yeah, what do your parents think?

They Cause it has to be, like, interesting.

You, your parents, they're both Chinese and live in China.

Yeah.

And then their kid's I'm gonna go to America.

And I wanna do movies.

Your parents are teachers, correct?

Yeah, they're teachers.

They're both geography teachers.

And at the first, they were like Are you crazy?

This is on the other side of the world We can't reach you.

We can't take care of and like you're gonna depend on yourself physically,

so I was like Yeah, I'm pretty sure Cuz this is my dream cuz I was like

brainwashed during the Disney program

I would love to do something that's really magical, that's

phenomenal, that's timeless, that's inspiring for a lot of kids.

Yeah.

So that's why I would love to see the world.

When did your love for production design really start?

When did you know you wanted to do that?

Oh, that started the first time in, the first time we were doing

the production workshop in NYFA.

It was introduced, the first time work Production workshop that we were

introduced to the position of production design and our professor let me try that.

But it was, like, in January 2017 seven years ago, and I fall

in love with production design at the first, very first time.

The first time you did it.

Yeah.

And then, where did your, where did the idea of you wanting to

come to the US and work in movies, where did all of that come from?

Was it just from childhood watching Disney movies, or?

It was part of it.

And then I was studying filmmaking in college in Shanghai University.

Where?

In Shanghai University.

Oh, shout out to Shanghai University.

Shanghai University.

Yeah.

And it was mainly focused on the directing.

So I was like, I want to do, I want to do film.

Directing for my lifetime career first.

Then I reached, when I reached to production design, I was like I'm

actually a really bad storyteller, but I'm a good designer for the visual part.

What happened to the directing?

You don't want to direct anymore?

I think people We'll have different talents for different things.

The director really needs storytelling, and also working with the cast.

That's really challenging for me.

But it's, I found my comfort zone on visualizing everything, when it comes to

picking up the prop and coming up with the idea, like, how it looks on set.

It's quite interesting.

We've had a lot of people on the show who, originally, they Wanted

to do something and then it pivoted.

That's interesting because I originally was going to do costumes, costume design.

And then I pivoted to writing and directing.

And you were like, I'm gonna be a director.

And you were like, oh, you know what, nope, I'm gonna go to the art side.

And Nicholas, you still act some, but now you do mostly executive producing.

What is it about production design that you just love so much?

It's like building a world.

It's really magical.

You translate what the writer writes and what the director decides

into What the real world is, it's like experiencing different lives.

Like sometimes you got to do the Asian China architectural style, or

sometimes you do the New York super modern international office, or

sometimes you just travel back to time, sometimes you travel to the future.

It's like designing a world.

Yeah, various type of work.

Bringing a story to life, bringing a world to life, that's what it has on the paper.

Yeah, and that's your job to do that.

So Coco you do you've been around you've done some traveling with this job, right?

Huh.

Yeah, what do you how do you as a production designer when you know?

Okay, cuz it's different when you're gonna do some production design at a place that

you know Yeah, like I'm sure if someone was like, oh, I want you to make this

look like back home in Shanghai You're like, oh, I know what that looks easy.

But then how do you're going to somewhere you were in Tokyo, correct?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you're like, okay cool.

I'm gonna design something in a completely different area Yeah.

How do you tackle that?

How do you handle that?

Or how do you visualize it?

Did a lot of research?

That was a lot of research.

Because we were doing a traditional Japanese house in that music video.

Yeah.

And it's for Kingston video game.

Yeah.

And I would say, I didn't have that much experience of Japanese culture,

so I was like, doing a lot of research, not only me, with my whole team there,

and also we pick up the, we pick the great person from the local production

design team as my art director.

So you partnered with someone local?

Yeah.

Okay.

And they're doing great, giving me suggestions during the very,

very early design process.

So when you're doing your design, do you do a lot of things by hand

or do you do it on the computer?

Mostly computer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you ever do it by hand?

Oh yeah, we're doing sketching.

Sketching for the site designers to get a more detailed idea

about how the site looks.

Which do you prefer, the computer or by hand?

I will refer, prefer the computer way, which is more efficient.

And wider spread and also, but there are some of the production

designers in our guild doing hand drawings, which is really classical.

I try that sometimes.

Sometimes.

Sometimes.

So what has been some of your favorite designs that you've done so far?

You've done a whole bunch of them.

Huh.

My favorite designs will be the music video I did this summer.

Yeah.

It was for one of my friends, and he's also one of the top celebrities in China.

And Ooh!

He's the top celebrity in China?

One of the top.

Yeah.

Singers.

What does he do?

He's a singer.

He's a singer?

He's a singer.

Does he rap?

Does he sing?

Or what's Mostly pop.

Oh, it is pop.

Yeah, was the pop.

So he's one of the PTS guys, . That's great.

That's different story.

. Do you are you decent to a lot of his music.

Oh, yeah.

I love music.

Is he one of your favorite artists?

Yeah, he is.

You know he's not going to listen to this, right?

You can say if he's really not.

There are a lot of talented singers in China.

What was it about this song?

What's this one that you like so much?

This music video, first of all, the song was pretty good.

You had a good foundation to work with.

Yeah, that's the start of the story.

And also this, cause this music video was sponsored by his company and his parents.

So they're like.

Yeah, we have a budget.

We do have a budget.

Yeah.

And then I was working on that budget and I did some, something

wild, like several sites.

Like the angel in the field and also the devil in the middle of the water.

Oh!

And the end of the world, which is industrial futuristic.

Man, when does this video come out?

I gotta see this video.

yet?

It is.

It is, you gotta send us a link and maybe our listeners can watch it too.

Sure.

Yeah.

What do you find is the most challenging thing about being a production designer?

I would say, most challenging thing would be, budgeting?

Budgeting?

The budgeting?

Yeah.

What do you mean budgeting?

Do you mean like, where the money goes to or getting the money?

The money goes to.

Like spending the money and where to put it?

Yeah, because we need to work, especially in commercial world.

We need to work around the budget.

We can't go over budget at all.

We can only make like compromise for something that we really want.

But also at the same time, you've got to have a clear mind that like how much

each of the element or construction.

Props will cost and where do you want to put the emphasize on those things.

And also it's like a lifetime lesson.

Like you get to know every single thing, the price of every single thing.

And also it's updating all the time.

It would be really helpful to have somebody experienced on budgeting.

We'll keep telling you what can you do or what you can.

And also get to the experience of those budgeting.

Do you guys worry about the timeline it takes?

Say you're like, okay, we're budgeted, we want to do this,

but it's going to take too long.

Or, it's gonna, what do you guys do when that happens?

We all know like the triangle of quality.

Yeah, quality, time schedule and budget.

So you can only get two of this.

You either have the money and it looks great, or it's either fast

and it was cheap, fast and good.

You can choose two.

You can only choose two.

So you're saying it really depends on the project itself, which two you choose.

Do you have some, so when you're looking for references, do you like to do a lot

of physical legwork, go see it in person?

Huh.

Just on the internet's enough or do you prefer to go look at

your references in real life?

Due to the time sensitive of our commercial world, we always do that, the

reference in one day or even half a day.

Wow.

Really?

That quick?

The commercial world is Oh, in China.

It's commercial world, they really so there's a lot of overlap.

Like you, you're working constantly.

Yeah.

For you got a lot of job.

Huh.

Yeah.

We once did 10 commercials in a month.

For the team, yeah.

Commercials, oh my gosh.

How long is, how long does it typically take to do one commercial that you

what's the timeline from start to finish?

And this is in China we're talking about.

Oh yeah, in China it's one week.

From we start, from we got the script or storyboard to the start of the shooting.

And, but in here in Hollywood it takes two weeks to a month.

Do you think there is a difference, like a major difference or not really?

It is a major difference.

What does the working day look like in China compared

to the working day in Holland?

Like when you wake up and you're like, oh, I'm on this thing in

China, what's the first thing you do?

You don't want to know.

Is it a secret?

It's brutal.

Oh, it's a brutal schedule.

You're working a lot, huh?

Yeah, it's really intensive.

So in China we work typically 16 hours a day.

Jesus.

Hours a day.

And no OT for our team.

No overtime?

No overtime.

So what do they pay you, just 8 hours?

They pay me at the flight package.

For a shooting day.

They pay you all at once?

Yeah.

Oh, okay, so it's like contract.

Yeah, it's a contract.

It count as a shooting day.

Not prep day, it doesn't count.

But we have a higher day rate, so that's how it works.

Do you have to be a part of a union or a guild in China too?

Like over here?

China is before union era.

They don't have any protections.

To be honest, I would love to have it in the future, but right now they're

doing whatever works the best for them.

So with your experience, then, when it comes to doing stuff over here in

America, Do you think that there's like a best of What do you like best

about working in China, and like best about working here in the States?

The best of working in China, it's efficiency.

It's like everything is not everything a lot of things are made in China.

A lot of things are efficient?

Yeah.

Yeah, they're made in China, so they're like, we can easily get it.

And we have like millions of choices of furniture.

Staggered because everything's made over there.

It's Oh, everything's like available.

It's easy.

Yeah, it's easy.

It's cheap.

And also in China, the RDR at art department it's different from the

prop team and construction team.

So they are like three departments.

So the art team is different.

Yeah.

So we have art department and we have like prop team.

And the construction team, or we can call it prop department

and the construction department.

And we are all separate.

So the art department are only taking care of the design part, like the drawings,

the reference, and after it's got approved by the client, we are passing on those to

the prop team and the construction team.

Also, we keep in close contact with each other because we're keep supervising

them and also keep tracking like the Checking the process, progress.

Constant communication with each other to make sure everybody is on the same page.

Yes.

Compared to here in America, where the art department is in charge of everything.

Yeah, the art department is everything.

We have construction team within the art department and also the

property within the art department.

Also the art director is taking care of the art budget.

But in China, the art budget goes to the property and the construction

team, which means they are talking to the Producer directly.

Yeah, I need to have a clear mind that how much would it cost, but it's

not my job to Budgeting those to the producer that will avoid a lot of

arguments And that's how we make our made our life easier and move faster

from one project to another Oh, do you think that should happen over here too?

It should be separate.

I think you said it makes it faster It makes faster for art department.

Yes.

But also there are also problems with that system.

Like miscommunication?

Like miscommunication, like over budgeting.

Cause the art department really don't have that much idea about how it actually cost.

Some of the budget may go waste.

Someone in our department over there could be like, Oh, I need this type of building?

Yeah.

And the construction would be like, I don't, I can't do that.

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

So then what do you like about doing it here in Hollywood?

In Hollywood, since it has been a hundred years, it's

physically and mentally healthier.

From my perspective.

You don't have to work 16 hours a day.

Yeah, that's heaven.

There's more structure to it on the back end.

I hear that a lot.

Especially when it comes to.

But that comes with time.

It's like you said, we were like, oh, China's like in the

area where it's pre union.

Pre union.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's just they haven't been doing

it for as long as America has.

True.

So how long do you think, this world's really pretty interconnected,

you know what I'm saying?

It's especially more and more every day.

Yeah.

We get to talk about, if you want to talk to someone on the

other side of the world, you can.

And even though we're more systems over here in America, now there's

this trend for things going more CGI.

Oh, yeah, which affects people like you who you're specialized

in production design, right?

And so now there's less production design because we won't do everything in CGI And

even though a lot of audiences like to see real stuff What do you think about

the transfer for most stuff going to CGI?

I'm open to the new technology I think it's it has their good size

and also has their shortcomings.

Yeah With the CGI, our life is actually easier.

We don't have lots of works to do.

How does it make your job so much easier as a production designer?

Cause some of the sites will be really challenging before CGI.

Oh, to make or build?

Yeah.

We, like in the old days in Hollywood, we need to build the mountains.

As you may learn from the production design professor.

Yeah.

They do huge constructions just to make it These giant statues or whatever.

Yes.

And a lot of miniatures, too.

The miniatures are really complicated.

Yeah.

And fragile.

Yeah, they're Very challenging for our department, too.

So with CGI, those things can go easily with the computer.

And also, but that CGI also involve the aesthetics from the art team.

That's true.

You still have to design it.

Yeah, which means we are on the early stage of the design process, and also

we have the choices to make it in CGI.

Do you find that CGI allows you to focus on other things now,

other than the challenging parts that you were talking about?

So for example, some people would think that CGI would not

necessarily replace a production designer, but augment the position.

The CGI actually expand our visions.

Oh, it expands your vision?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Now we Because it allows you to focus on things you couldn't previously before?

Yes, it said before CGI we have limitations of what we can do.

But when it came out Then we can have some very wild imaginations.

Yeah, that's true.

So how do you decide then what you want to be CGI and what

you want to make in real life?

How do you decide, oh this should be CGI or this shouldn't?

It's also a conversation with the director, the producer in case

of the budgeting, and also the CGI team that they, now they all

always have their own idea too.

Yeah.

And also, it's also according to the material, what they have in the stock.

For cgi.

If it is something that will close to the character or will be a

hand prop or be touched during the scene, we'll do it in real life or.

If it is something that goes far away or something really well that consumes a

lot of budget, then we'll do it in CGI.

So it's really more of the background stuff that needs to be CGI compared to

things that the characters need to be around and touch and things like that.

Like you wouldn't CGI a tape.

You'll probably get a table.

Yeah.

You could make the table something else.

You'd have just a regular table, but make it in CGI maybe something more ornate.

Super table.

Super table that has dance and stuff.

Like the VR guest table.

Yeah, like the VR guest table from Beauty and the Beast.

What is like some of the franchises or some of the movies that you would

love to do production design for?

I love The fantasy and sci fi stuff.

Yeah?

That's my favorite.

Is there any movies or TV you were like, Oh, I would love to work for them?

Oh, recently it's Wonka.

Which one?

Wonka.

Willy Wonka.

Oh, Willy Wonka!

Willy Wonka!

Willy Wonka!

Wonka.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, dude.

Willy Wonka is always interesting to watch and see and stuff like that.

Yeah.

What parts do you think that you want to be involved in?

If so, let's say we go back in time.

We're making Willy Wonka.

What part are you like, Okay, this is me.

I'm gonna do this.

Okay.

I would love to design the Wonka store.

Oh, the Willy Wonka store?

Yeah, his own chocolate store.

It was great.

So when it comes to Willy Wonka, it's quite interesting

because it's way different.

The modern ones are way different than the one that had Johnny Depp.

Oh, yeah?

It's also different than the one that had D Modern.

Yeah, D Modern back in the day.

How would you take that and redesign it for yourself?

What do you think is one of the first things you would change to be like?

Oh, I would do this interpretation Wow, I would expand the candy store even more.

Oh make it even bigger.

It would make it bigger make it more playful I can see that they are

trapped can a little better budget.

Yeah, a lot of things Back to the CGI topic, a lot of things were doing by CGI,

and the construction only go like the first and second level of the building.

So if we really do have a budget, I would love to make it more fantasy, playful.

More of a whimsical kind of fantasy.

Like a fantastical place.

Yeah.

It's more like a theme park than a Canada store.

Oh, that's cool.

Now, when you say fantasy, do you mean like historical fantasy,

like Game of Thrones or The Witcher or Lord of the Rings.

Or do you mean fantasy like anime and stuff like that, like power fantasy?

I love Disney fantasy.

Magical fantasy.

Magical fantasy.

Yeah, Mary Poppins Returns.

Yeah.

Particular Children.

Yeah.

One Guy is Right.

Warner Brothers.

Would you ever do something like How would you tackle something like Tarzan?

Because it's still fantasy, but it's like a jungle.

Like how do you design The woods.

How did he design the jungle?

Oh, I probably gotta go to Amazon first.

A few months before I took that job.

Have you ever, let's say you're working, let's say you're

working on a Disney project.

There's a lot of CGI that they use for a lot of their stuff, too.

When it comes to allocating the budget, you just said that, looking at Willy

Wonka's, you were like, oh, I think they had a limitation on the budget.

Yeah.

Should have gone to that amount.

You know what I'm saying?

What do you think their budget should have been for you to say, okay, I

would probably be able to do it.

That's a tricky question.

Yeah.

Because really budget is some of the topic that I'm working on.

Yes.

I'm not really familiar with the U.

S.

market when it comes to it.

I would say million dollars.

Would you say it's easier to, because you did say earlier that it was easier

to get some stuff in China than it is like here in America, but with

CGI it's like you just make it, so if you were doing Willy Wonka in China,

would you have more practical stuff or would it be the same amount of CGI?

I would love to do more practical.

Because we do can make it happen cheaper than CGI.

Cheaper than CGI?

Yeah.

What?

Are you serious?

CGI is really overpriced in China because it's like new technology.

Like it's really common here and also in Europe.

Yeah.

But in China it's like It's, they're making a lot of money out of it.

With CGI.

Yeah, cause it's also, it's like a short resource for in the film industry.

Oh, so the Chinese film industry is not as popular as CGI.

It's more popular to do with practicals.

True.

So practicals are cheaper then.

True.

And also the CGI requires the producer have more knowledge

on what they can do in CGI.

Aren't you?

Yeah.

And their industry is still younger.

Huh.

I think in case of Chinese producers, they got to know more

about the CGI world to apply it in the commercials and film stuff.

Oh, cool.

But it's a trend.

Whenever you're doing these commercials and projects that you're doing, do you

find that the practical is better than the CGI as far as the performances you

get from the people in the commercial?

Yeah, some actors say that they need it around practicals instead of CGI.

Huh.

Yeah.

Do you think it, do you think the practical is better?

I totally agree.

Yeah.

The practical is always better.

It helps with the acting, the performance, and also it helps with the client because

the client doesn't have the imagination.

, they're always saying that, I can't imagine this.

Show me the picture.

The picture.

See what Lucy, what it looks like.

Yeah.

You can show a client a green screen and telling them this is what they're

gonna be . Have you been there when?

Actors have had to completely imagine what's going on, and is it awkward

for everybody around to just make believe that something's going on?

It happens sometimes when they don't have the time to prepare the

CGI drawings ahead or modeling.

So sometimes I help with the director.

I also do the concept drawings.

I do the photoshop of what it will look like in CGI, and the director will

show that picture to the celebrity, whoever is performing there, and tell

them there is gonna be this, there is gonna be a train, there are mountains.

And also sometimes we have something for reference.

A combo high.

Going high up.

Put someone on top of a combo and be like, Oh yeah.

This thing, way up here, you're scared of it.

Oh yeah.

So that will help.

What do you think is, so as a production designer, what do

you use on a day to day basis?

What is your main tools that you use?

Oh, so first of all, for reference, we're using Pinterest the most.

Pinterest.

Yeah.

We also use the app called Ego.

Ego?

Yeah.

It's like a photo collaborative app where we can put all our reference in stock.

Because in the commercial world there are so many projects that use like

similar rooms, similar type of thing.

So sometimes we pull out from our library, like a photo library,

that we are building as a team.

And for the modeling we do SketchUp.

Same in Hollywood, we do SketchUp for modeling, we do

Vary or Inkscape for rendering.

And sometimes for the real locations that we do Photoshop.

Do you like to use?

Pictures from other films sometimes, or mostly just realistic stuff?

From the films, would be more helpful than the realistic stuff.

That was from my experience.

Because with the film they have the camera angle, it has the depth of

field, and also it has the lighting.

So it creates a more closer atmosphere as you may look in the real commercial.

So it will help the client to visualize what we are going

to get in the final product.

Oh, so it's like closer to what it might actually look like.

Yes.

Now, with AI being such a big thing now is there anything that

you use as a production designer?

Do you use any AI tools, or do you I haven't tried that before for my job,

but I tried for pleasure sometimes.

Yeah.

And I heard some of the production designers, they use the AI for the

reference and also for the drawings.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Yeah.

You could put into the AI tools what you would want, or you could put in the

pictures and be like Type in Super Table.

Type in Super Table.

You're right.

Coco, it's been great having you on the show.

Do you have any projects that you want to possibly shout out,

or where can people follow you?

My Instagram is Coco, underscore, Dream Big.

That's my design account.

Yeah.

And if you guys go out there, you're gonna see a portfolio of like I think what,

are you done 18 billion projects now?

Yeah Come on!

Yeah, i'm guessing this You do 10 a month!

With those brutal schedules.

Oh my gosh, she has more experience than we do in a month.

She's making We What, it takes us about a couple months to make a project.

She's doing 10 a month!

We gotta get up to your level Coco.

We gotta get up to Chinese standards.

Welcome to China!

You guys My name is Derek Johnson II.

I'm Nicholas Keller.

This is Coco Lee.

And we'll see you next time.

See ya.

This has been Film Center on Comic Con Radio.

Check out our previous episodes at Comic ConRadio.

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Tune in next Wednesday for a fresh update.

Until next time, this has been Film Center.

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