Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros. In this episode, we’re diving deep into a timely and critical topic: the elusive “Refi Boom.” While it seemed like we were on the brink of a refinance surge not too long ago, rising rates have complicated things. Still, with expectations for a potential boom in the next 6–12 months, we’re unpacking what a refinance boom really means, how to prepare now, and how to capitalize when it hits.

We kick off by defining exactly what constitutes a “refi boom” in today’s environment, why it’s so crucial to be perpetually ready, and how market volatility presents both challenges and windows of opportunity. We dissect the importance of staying in front of your database, leveraging automation, and differentiating yourself from the big servicers who are sharpening their tools for this very moment.

We don’t just stop at theory — we walk through practical ways to segment and reach your client list, how to coordinate with your team and operations, the role of automation, and why it’s vital to maintain your purchase pipeline even when refis are flying in. We also get candid about what happens if your company isn’t up to speed, and why the next boom won’t look anything like 2021. Throughout, we share both tactical tips and strategic mindset shifts to maximize your opportunities, build lasting client relationships, and keep your business future-proof.

5 Key Takeaways:

1. Refi Boom Readiness is Year-Round: A true refinance boom isn’t just about market conditions — it’s about being prepared. We agree that when refis hit about 30% of your book, it feels like a boom. But even a 10–20% increase can be a windfall if you’re ready. Stay in contact with your database all year, not just when rates drop, and always be building your list of ready-to-go clients.
2. Database Is Your Goldmine (Not Just “Past Clients”): We emphasize killing the “past customer” mentality. They are not just past clients but ongoing customers and sources of future business and referrals. Keep conversations rolling, future-cast savings at target rates, and position yourself as a lifelong advisor, not a one-time lender.
3. First to the Client Wins: Big servicers are poised to grab your clients the moment rates drop. If you’re not already in touch, you’re behind. Strategies like soft pulls, delayed payoffs, and rapid file-building can help you retain control and outmaneuver the competition. Speed and proactive communication are your best defense.
4. Systematize and Segment for Speed and Scale: When the boom hits, it’s triage time: prioritize easy wins (streamlines, high LTVs, clean files) and utilize automation for outreach. Don’t let the three-hour “maybe” conversations slow you down — stack the easy deals fast and keep your purchase pipeline healthy. Prepare your ops teams and insist on a company-wide readiness plan.
5. Booms Don’t Last — Stay Balanced and Financially Wise: The refi boom is real but fleeting. We talk frankly about how the 2021 boom brought “fake business, real money.” Don’t mistake temporary earnings for a new normal. Keep your eye on your core purchase business, maintain and grow key relationships (especially with agents who’ll notice if you disappear!), and be smart with the extra revenue a boom provides.

Whether you’re a seasoned LO or just getting your feet wet, now’s the time to prep your systems, strengthen your client connections, and coordinate closely with your operations team. Start making those calls — your future pipeline (and sanity) will thank you.

Give us a five-star rating, hit that subscribe button, and let us know in the comments how you’re preparing for your next refi boom.

Robert, Tom, & Dave

Welcome everyone to another edition of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. I'm here with, Tom Mills and Robert Fillyaw. How you guys doing this morning?

Good, man. How are you?

Good. Good. So, one of the topics we're gonna hit on today, and it's, seemed like it was timely for a minute, maybe not as much now, with rates going up is, refinances and, how to be ready for them. And we'll be looking, hopefully, at a refinance boom sometime here the next, six, twelve months. So, let's get into and start off. What defines a refinance boom? What is it?

First, it was kinda funny. We thought for about thirty six whole hours, we may have been in the middle of or just getting at the start of one, and then

We're here. This is what we've been talking about. This is what we've been planning for.

The second time, because I think we we had a full start in the fall too.

Yeah. What? What? What?

Yeah. It I think it you know, what that really, teaches you a lesson to kinda always be ready, though. Right? You know? If you're not, you you're gonna lose more. Your question, what con constitutes a refi boom? Always been told, and I think, you know, when you're 30% of your business is there is is refinance. I know you can look across, like, the industry, and you may see that some companies are higher with they're more, like, refi focused. I think for, like, our audience, you know, self generating, originator Money shop. Purchase money focused. I think when you're, you know, three out of every 10 loans you're closing as a refi, I think you feel like you're, you know, boom.

That's a nice that's a really nice pickup, especially if you were running you're running in a good spot before those those, refis came in. I think that's a boom.

I I would agree with that. We may not see a boom. Right? I mean, if 20% of our business is refinances, I'll certainly take it. And a lot of that's geography too, you know, for our listeners that are in California, or higher loan amounts in Massachusetts or New York state or wherever that case may be. You'll be able to refinance a lot more of your customers because larger loan amounts, and you need less of a spread to do it.

So it was also much more of a story, you know, years ago, but, you know, the the conventional loan limits, you know, since COVID really come up dramatically in in in all markets, and the average loan amounts come up dramatically. It said, over that $300,000 loan amount, it's, you know, half a point percent to three quarters of percent and a drop. You've you've got a significant monthly savings To a family that may be feeling a a pinch right now, you know, with all things going on, that that that's significant to a lot of households.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. I agree. I think it's that, you know, thirty thirty plus percent would constitute a boom, but I also agree with Dave. Right? There's not an originator out there that if you talk to and said, hey. If if your business were to increase by 10 to 20% with refis, would you take it? Every one of them is gonna say yes. Right? So I think the real question is, are you ready to take it? Like, are you doing the things necessary to be ready to capture the business as fast and as as efficient as possible? Because I think what we've seen, guys, we we joke about, you know, this thirty six hour window, and and the blip that we saw in the fall. I think with the volta the volatility in the market, this is what we're gonna see. We're gonna see microbursts of the, rates dropping, and you have a span of three, four, five days where you can capitalize on it.

And then maybe they they, you know, move back up and so those clients are out of the the game again. So if you're an originator out there and you don't have your systems ready, you haven't done the things to be prepared, when the rates fall, if this does hold to be true, you're gonna miss the boat. You're not gonna have time to get the clients ready and do the things you need to do. The rates are gonna be back up.

What are the things to

be prepared? That's a great question.

You you need to be in touch with your database on a regular basis. You know, especially clients, let's just use a a number, draw a line in the sand, 7%. All clients with rates over 7%, you should have been in touch with the last three months via email and verbally on the phone or at least leaving voice mail messages. There's money in voice mail. They know you because because I can tell you, you know, look at rocket acquisition of mister Cooper. Big companies, big servicers like mister Cooper, they're viewed to be ready. Yeah. They're they're yeah.

They're ready to call your customers. They're they're they're ready to what was the stat? They retained 68% of their customers, so that's that's your customers.

Mhmm.

Yeah.

Because they're they're buying, you know, service releases, and they're they're they're taking those customers in. And if, you know, six out of 10, you you can lose, but you can you can also be the loan officer that, you know, that catches, you know, seven out of of 10. You know? And that's a realistic number because, you know, as great as you are, it's hard to really catch every every opportunity. It's it's really hard. But, you know, I think I think the biggest thing, you know, you think about, like, Dave, you mentioned everybody over 7%. You know, you can look at it that way. And, you know, if you're behind and you haven't been in regular contact with your database, that's probably where you should start most definitely. You know, the low hanging fruit first kind of mentality.

But I really think that originators self generating originators need to stop thinking about the term past funded customers, past customers, and just start calling them customers. Because if if I've done a deal with that customer, they're probably gonna do six to eight more deals. They have a sphere of influence, offense, family, and coworkers. They're a customer. You know? And and if you've done a great job and created a raving fan of that customer, it's simply just conversations every you don't have to wait till the market moves. You don't have to, you know, try to worry about getting this front. You know, when you're doing, I think, strategies through twelve months a year regardless of the market, you know, you're in the driver's seat with the vast majority of your database. And, Dave, I know you referred to it as a database because I know you don't look at it as just a past customer.

But I think that's the fundamental difference between those that really feast in these opportunities and markets and those that are just chasing and hoping that they don't miss out.

I I feel like the last boom in 2021 was easy was is going to look we'll look back at it. It was easier.

I think more plentiful. There there was so there was way more. Like, there was so much for everyone.

Yeah. And the servicers couldn't get to it quick enough, but I think a lot of these servicers, their retention departments have been sharpening their knives waiting for this moment. And I think it's gonna be more difficult. I mean, I also said you can walk in a grocery store, pick up an orange, and throw it across, and then it it hits someone who needed the refinance. It it was that easy. Basically, everyone in America that had a mortgage had an opportunity to refinance it, like, 90%. We're not gonna have it anymore. So you need to be focused.

And as Tom mentioned, if you've not prepped your systems, if you're not ready, if you've not reached out to your past customer database, you're gonna be behind you're behind the eight ball for sure.

But no. I think that's a good point. I mean, these these services it it's gonna be a dogfight. Right? So you need to do things to position yourself with your with your clients to make them want to do business with you and you be their trusted adviser versus solicitor that's calling them out of the blue trying to, retain servicing runoff. Right? Because that's what's gonna happen, guys. So I think, you know, the other thing we need to talk about is how do we build our systems and our teams to make this as quick and as efficient and easy as possible? This is, when I say low hanging fruit, like, this needs to be, like, a a ten to twelve minute conversation. Customers bought in, and you're running the closing, and you're trying to turn these things in fifteen, twenty days. Like, they need to be quick, easy, slam dunk turns.

Otherwise, your the servicer's gonna get involved, and they're absolutely gonna undercut you on price. You're not gonna it's gonna be a a knife fight in the street, and you're gonna end up bleeding out.

Because they're gonna take deals. They're gonna take things tighter than than most people listening to this podcast are able to do. And I mean, we've seen situations in competitive dog fights where the servicer basically took it down to no profit margin to where, you know, we we were not making even aft even before paying the LO, there was zero profit margin. Obviously, we cannot work for free. So some of the strategies we we talked about to retain the customer, and to not alert the servicer are doing a soft pull and doing a hard pull at the last second, like a week before closing, as well as not having the title company or us where the payoff till about a week before closing. That way, CD's out, loans clear to close, things are signed. It it it keeps them a little stickier. What other strategies, you know, just brainstorming guys can we do to kinda retain that client away from the servicer?

Well, as you know, I mean, I think first and foremost, it's in front of the communication, not behind it. If you're the first one talking to them six months before the timing becomes a reality to refinance, you're you're you're very much in a driver's seat much less likely to lose the customer to to the outreach that's gonna come from the servicing department, much less likely for them to even entertain it. You may have them, you know, tell you that they they called them off for that, and you gotta match it. You know? And I think, you know, as you guys know, we've talked about that that importance of having a an internal retention strategy. Like, sometimes loan officers, like, you may have to forgo you know, maybe your company lets you forgo your income, you know, have a way to to get that loan done to keep that that customer from being marketed in your database, not, you know, and not going back to that, you know, that same service or to to stay there forever. I think, you know, you have to there's there's a value to keeping the customer and and then really learning from that and making sure that you're doing the things going forward to stay in front to catch, like I said, those next six to seven deals that they may be doing.

Yeah. I I love what you said about the the early reach out, Tom. Like, I think that's so important. Dave, you mentioned also talking to your database. Like, the conversations that should be like, you should be building your bench of refis that are ready to go. Right? Like, have the conversation. Go ahead and look at numbers and say, you know, hey, mister client. You're in a seven and a quarter now.

Right? When I can do an FHA streamline for you at six and a half and it does this, this is what it looks like. Is would that be enough? Like, is that enough to move the needle for you? And have have those conversations and have that list of clients built. And then the minute this starts happening, now all you're saying is, hey. Great news. We're there. I'm getting it started. Boom. Boom.

Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Right? Yeah. Have your templated emails ready with the needs list. Have all of this stuff plug and play so you can grab as much of this as possible as fast as you can. And then you just make it really easy to close.

Like, the people that get ahead of it and have those lists built and, heck, maybe even have file structure. Right? Don't trade trigger them. You don't want them hanging around in your active pipeline, but have the file structure. Have it ready to go. Know what your targets are. And then it's a really simple easy call to that client. Hey. Great news.

That target we talked about for your refi, we're there. I'm getting the ball moving today for you. Man, done.

And I think that's what the rate in terms. Right? But sometimes, like, your cash out, like, you know, that doesn't always stand out to you. Like, it takes it takes those conversations. And, you know, we've had a great success with annual reviews. You know? Because if you do annual reviews, like, you're almost a year really kinda help talking about their debt. Right? And, you know, really, we're here to help them manage their debt, and their their largest asset that most of most of our, you know, customers have is is the equity in their homes. So, you know, we're helping them manage it through that. We're finding those opportunities, and that's where you have conversations and you learn, like, if this were to be the case, then that customer would be really interested to jump all over it.

And it like, you're you you said, Robert, it's just a phone call and, hey. Let's go. We're gonna skip our next two payments. We're gonna free up that $600 a month and pay this off and do this.

Well, the cool thing, Tom hold on just a second, Damon. I know you wanna jump in. The cool thing about doing the the dials now and setting that up, it's what I call you'll get the now and later. Right? Because some of those conversations are gonna uncover cash out needs that are there now that you guys aren't having the conversations with. So you'll get some of that business now through the cash out, and then you'll also be stacking that list for later.

I I love that. You know, now and later, and then you can potentially get referrals. You you're staying top of mind. Yeah. I like that, Robert. A lot of it is to stay in front of customers, making the phone calls, putting in the work. We kinda like to future cast our people, right, and say, hey. You know, Robert, you're at seven and a half percent.

Here are the numbers at six and a half. Here's the savings. We're not there yet, but I'm gonna call you when it's six and a half. Is that okay? Like, get get their permission to do it, and have the numbers ready, have everything ready to go, how the have the file built in your LOS. You know, a lot of these refis are gonna be easier as well too. You're gonna get a lot of PIWs. You're gonna get, you know, one year w twos, one year, you know, one or two pay stubs. It it it is gonna be significantly easier.

A A lot of

them are lower LTVs. They're, you know, high quality borrowers, so you should be able to jam those in and out of underwriting very quickly. And your company your company should have an operations built. I mean, I know in 2021, different times I know, we paid our underwriters a per file bonus to work on the weekends. And they could come in and each underwriter could, you know, grind out seven or eight refinances, make an extra thousand or $1,500 in the weekend. Who doesn't want that? And we are able to just burn through our refinances really quick, and they're easier deals.

And the big thing is to, you know, not lose anything service wise, a beat. You know? Don't skip a beat on your on your purchases, and don't skip a beat on your on your prospecting of your purchases too. We see a lot of loan officers do that, and then we see agents posting about, oh, I'm not getting outreach for coffee meetings anymore. Refinance season must be it. Loan officers just hide now, finally calling their database. You know, that's silly. Like, if you're doing it, that's another difference too that that that impact that you don't even think about. When you're calling your database and working your database strategy all year long, when the the season hits, you don't have to, like, entrench yourself into it.

It like you said, it's conversation disclosed. Your team's just making the phone calls. You're just having short conversations and loans are moving in and out, and you're able to maintain your your purchase prospecting, which is really where you get to an opportunity to make up a lot of ground. If if if you're, you know, if you're looking to gain new partners, that that is always a good season for it.

It's a great season. I can think of it. I can think of probably five relationships off the top of my head that I know that originators were working, working, working. And then in 2020 and 2021, the lender that that realtor was using got so refi focused that they dropped the ball in the purchase, and our lenders moved in, and now they have those realtor relationships. Mhmm. So that's a great point. Having this preplanned and and being ready for it will make sure that doesn't happen to you and you don't sacrifice your purchase relationships because that's the stuff that's that's what I call the everlasting guys. That stuff's always there.

Refi boom, it's called a boom for a reason. It doesn't last. It's not here always. So you can't let that sidetrack your Everlast business.

Here's a news flash. You may have to work a little harder. You you may have to put in some additional early mornings, nights, and weekends when this happens because, yeah, it comes quickly and unexpectedly. Right? Like, look look at COVID. I remember in February, I was in a conference down in Florida watching the ten year dropout, ten year treasury. I'm thinking, man, I I wish I was back in the office making phone calls. It can happen unexpectedly, and it can end unexpectedly as well too. Usually usually happens quicker and then it ends slowly.

You know? So so let let let's get into some, you know, real strategy and some practical advice. I mean, guys and this could happen. What happens if over a week period rates drop a full 1%? Like, what do you do? Like, you know, yeah. Feast.

Yeah. What do you do?

What do you do? Except, you know, you know, hit the mattresses, put a mattress in your, office and and just work.

You you kiss you kiss the wife and kids and say, all that family time we've been having is nice. I see you in the middle of the month.

So what are some strategies if rates drop 1% over a one week period? I mean, again, you gotta be you gotta be prepped and organized. Right? So for I would encourage our listeners who are listening today, have a plan. Have a written plan for yourself, have a written plan for your team, make sure your company's prepped. I I know we're prepped and ready to go. But so one week rates drop one percent. What what are some of the action items that that that you do?

I mean, the three major outreaches are are call, email, text. Right? So all three, at the same time, simultaneously, not waiting for any first, second, or third approach. You know? Regular, consistent outreaches, you know, welcoming text because, you know, I would have been in front of my database. It's like, hey, Dave. It's Tom. You probably see in the market watching the news. Rates have moved. A lot of people are reaching out to me, so I wanted to reach out to you.

You know, grab some time on my calendar. Let's grab fifteen minutes and chat. I'll answer any questions you have. Really, I'm not here to sell you. I'm just here to answer questions you have because you have seen the news, you know, and and you you are a part you know, especially it seems like everybody's always watching interest rates, you know, always watching interest rates. Whether you own a home or you're thinking of buying a home, people are watching mortgage interest rates. You know? It's the conversation I have most with people that are outside of our industry. They always ask they they know you're in a mortgage industry.

They say, what are rates like? You know? So just having the those conversations. And then I think, you know, as you know, we're big on automation. You know? Give them a convenient way to book time with you. You know, instead of going back or thinking, I'm gonna catch them at 02:00 in the middle of their day or 06:00 in family time or when they're at baseball. You know? Schedule some time with me, but I make it really easy for you, via text, email, phone call outreaches. And you always know if you're not making a phone call, then you should have somebody making a phone call to book it to somebody that's gonna do a a quick analysis there. Make it make it on a really efficient call.

If you're not calling your past customer database, someone else, it'll says Linda. A % someone else has

it out. I think I think the key to remember here, right, we you we wake up and rates of move out point is is that boom. Right? This is this is a short window of time to maximize as much business as you can. Right? So, ideally, you're prepared, and you have your list, segmented. Right? You you wanna grab the low hanging fruit first. And what I mean by that is the easier refinances. Right? Your URLs, your streamlines, your rate in terms with a an 800 bar at a 50% LTV. The the one and done stuff.

The stuff that gets through. Right? You you almost have to triage just a little bit because that three hour conversation that you get into trying to sell someone on a refi and trying to work it out, you could have put six deals in the pipeline. Right? So you have to you have to this isn't I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but there may be conversations that you have to sideline to grab other conversations to get as much in the pipeline as you can during this boom. Right? Like that I really think that's gonna be the world that we live in because I think we're gonna have microbursts of it. Right? Yeah. The more prepared and the the more conversations you have up front, the more list you have built, the more people you have sitting on g waiting for o, the better you're gonna be able to capitalize on this.

And I think, you know, don't just rely on your customer database. You know? There's you have your sphere of influence on social media. You have your customers. You're doing your power calls. You're doing you know, when rates are on the move, people are buying houses. People are doing transactions. They tell other people they're doing a refinance or they're buying a home. And people ask questions, and you ask questions enough, and you get somebody's name and phone number.

And, you know, it gets that next opportunity before they could reach out to their service or what. You didn't even have a relationship with them. And that's important. You know? You have to take a multiple prong approach and and, you know, and it and it is a numbers game, and you're not going to get them on no matter how good you are. You know? It gets really fun, doesn't it, when we start getting those packs like, hey. I got six purchases, six refis this lead this week, you know, seeing loans flying out the door. It's it's a lot of fun.

And this is something you guys can get really proactive with. Right? We we were just at a, just in our sales rally, and someone spoke on building a funnel. And and, basically, it's super easy. They're putting it out there on all socials. Rates are gonna drop in the not too distant future. A lot of our a lot of our sphere of influence is gonna have the opportunity to refi. If you would be interested in that when the time is right, please let us know. We'll put you on the list, and we'll monitor this for you, and we'll we'll take the heavy lifting out of it.

We will we will do it for you and come to you when it's time. And it's they're what are they doing? They're building the list that we're talking about, and they're getting just a little bit of information. They're having the conversation, and they're kinda setting the hook. And then when it's time, you reel them in. Like, if you're not I can't stress this enough, guys. If you're not doing this now, if you're not having these conversations now, you're going to miss the boat. This starting tomorrow after you listen

to this podcast. Get a list of your top 25 clients. And top 25 clients, what I mean by that, what Robert said, your VA IRRRLs, maybe your FHA streamlines, maybe the larger loan amounts with the higher interest rates. I have mine ranked based on interest rates, and then look with the loan amounts. Have it ready to go and call at the very least. Everyone can make 25 phone calls in a week. Call your top 25, leave them a voice mail message, or or or schedule call with them. And I 100% guarantee it will pay dividends.

Like Tom said, educate them. There's a lot of talk about interest rates. There's a lot of stuff going on in the news. So it's easy to cut through that. And then when the net when the next Fed meeting whatever happens at the next Fed meeting, they're gonna call you for advice and expertise.

Mhmm.

And and if you haven't been calling, don't feel like, I just it's too late. I haven't been doing it. Because, Robert, what are they not gonna say when you when you reach out?

They're they're not gonna say, oh, Tom. I haven't heard from you in five years doing? Not not at

all. They're they're Hey. Thanks for the call. You know? And just business as usual. Pick up keep it casual. Had conversations. Like, that's the thing. I mean, don't just pick up the phone to sell them.

Just pick up the phone to call them. And if you're doing that more consistently, you're never selling your pet your your customers. You don't have to sell your customers. You just have to make together informed decisions on when it's best for them to make moves together. That's most fun.

Yeah. And and it's you know, the the the crazy thing about the conversations when you're calling just to check-in and it's conversational, you don't know what's gonna open up. Right? Like, that and that's where you can maybe get into some of the cash out conversations and just see see where it goes. Mhmm. This we could preach a whole a whole, session on, you know, past database calls and the reason you should be making them. This is just even more. Right? Like, hopefully, you guys are doing these regularly. You're not.

This is just more reason to do it.

And and ask ask for a referral too. Hey. Anyone else I should be talking to? Friends, family, and coworkers who are looking to possibly refinance that have purchased the last three years? I I'd love to help them too.

And do that in every market. It doesn't need to happen when rates drop. It that's a that's in every, honestly, you should be set as an originator, you should say that phrase almost every day.

Absolutely. Every conversation, I would say. You know, one one interesting piece that we haven't touched on a whole lot that I wanna spend just a minute on is, as an originator, you know, you we're talking about what you can do to be prepared and be ready, but you need to make sure your company's prepared and ready. Right? Like, we saw some crazy things when COVID in. Guys, I don't I don't think this refi boom is gonna be anything like 2021 was. Right? We've talked about that. It's gonna be a percentage of that. But there are still gonna be companies out there that run into operational challenges and bottlenecks, and they're gonna do things like, you know, jack rates up to slow down volume coming in.

Right? They're gonna do things extend turn times or right? So it's gonna be really interesting, I think, as we see this next boom to see how companies respond to it. So as originators, that's something you guys may wanna have some questions with the with your leadership if you're not sure. Hey. This refo refo boom happens. What what's our plan? As as an originator, what I'd be looking to hear is purchase business is going to, remain our focus. We're not gonna jack pricing up to interfere with your ability to bring business in, and we're gonna basically staff in in price as we need to to get your deals done for you.

If you're struggling operationally now

Oh. And you get

a 30 to 40% increase, you're toast. I mean, listen. We struggled operationally in '20 and '21, but so did every single mortgage company in America. I I thought we handled it better than most. But if you're struggling now and if your leadership cannot give you a clear plan on what happens when the refi boom, I mean, we we have a plan. I mean, we're gonna overtime weekend work. A lot of our underwriters and staff will grab that, and we're just gonna we're gonna hire. I will say, hire till the pain goes away.

You're in a position. The servicers, they have a plan. They have a plan. That's a fact. So, you know, it's important that we have one. Each loan originator has one because it's it's you know, you really have to work together with your company to capture that. You know, your use of all of those automation and things like tools they can provide you to, you know, really get in front of faster, more people. Sometimes there's a there's everybody's got a plan, and then sometimes all chaos breaks loose and all Mike Tyson comment.

Everybody's got bread.

That's in the face.

That was the last week I was like, everybody thought they had to figure it out, and then, bam, they're punched in the face and just reeling and try to get deals closed. And and, you know, it was it was but it was fun. There was a lot of money being made, and a lot of customers really look at the money that was freed up. Look at that different economy. Look at, you know, households that you're seeing thousands of dollars for a monthly. Like, that was fun.

Well, I always say about the refi boom of 2021, fake business, real money. I knew the amount of business that I was doing was not sustainable. I know I wasn't that level of a producer. I almost close 200,000,000 in '21. That was fake business, but it was real money. Right? And allows, you know, let's face it. The last two and a half, three years have been a very rough time in the mortgage industry. When you get a re a little refinance boom like this, it allows you to get healthy and, you know, maybe we'll do a whole episode on this and a little advice to all the LO friends who are listening.

Don't think that income is sustainable. Right? Take that little extra refund money that you get, put it at the side because it it's not going to last.

That's a moment. That's a whole another that's a whole another session, Dave.

It is. It is. I'm just putting it out there. That money isn't gonna last. Stuff it away.

Pay off some debt. Definitely.

Pretty damn sorry. Amazing. I think it

was timely. Some good stuff there. For those of you that, you know, haven't really been on it, you know, going it. Happy to help anybody individually, schedule time with us, build a plan, get in front of it because, there's gonna be there's some opportunity right now. The opportunity is gonna open up more as our purchase opportunity is opening up more. So, you know, it's really, really good time to get buckled down, have a good process built, have a good plan in place, and, take advantage. You know? We come off a pretty decent you know, really, you know, as you know, get off pretty decent q one for our industry. The market still hasn't given us a lot, but, you know, you know, I came into the year, like, tail end of the year after we've had that, like, rise in rates.

And then, you know, that drop in rates, and it kinda rose back. Like, man, this may look a little bit like, you know, a lot like 2024, but I'm seeing a lot of things that that tell me that there's more hope than that and that we we can have a really, really strong second half to this year. So, you know, how strong everybody's second half and, you know, second quarter and then second half is gonna be is all about, you know, that plan process in place and how we're maximizing time and opportunities, I think.

Yeah. So call to action, you know, get your, top 25 list. Everyone can make, 25 calls. You're getting a lot of voice mails. Do that and then move on to the next 25. Everyone can do that. Get it prepped. Be the circle of influence with your customers.

Ask for referrals because you'll get you'll get some purchase business out of it and potentially some other refinances.

I love it. I love it. Good stuff, guys. Wrapping up. Any any last ads? Hoping and praying. Closer than we've ever been. We are closer than we've ever been. So, guys, thanks for joining, on this episode of lending leadership with the mortgage pros.

Go ahead and leave us that five star and smash that subscribe button. As always, we appreciate you joining us. For Dave, and Tom, this is Robert Fillyaw. Have a great day. Thanks so much. Thanks a lot.