Shownotes
Should taxpayers fund the construction of new sports stadiums? What parallels can be drawn from past situations like the Columbus Blue Jackets’ stadium?
We dive into a range of hot topics, including Jim Jordan's staunch defense of free speech, bolstered by unlikely allies like Matt Taibbi and Elon Musk. We'll also examine Musk's evolving political stance and the criticisms surrounding Tesla's government subsidies.
Next, we shift gears to local matters, scrutinizing the Cleveland Browns' ambitious $1.2 billion taxpayer-funded stadium project and the motivations behind it. We question the ethics of public funding for sports venues and draw parallels to past cases involving the Blue Jackets.
We'll also touch on the latest developments in national politics, focusing on Kamala Harris's campaign tactics and the implications of voter ID laws. Plus, we discuss controversial topics like censorship, government influence on private businesses, and the emergence of alternative social media platforms.
Finally, we get into historical and current military matters, from the execution of Nazi saboteurs during World War II to modern debates over handling prisoners of war and terrorist suspects.
Common Sense Moments
00:00 World War 2 facts, history major's insights
05:31 Six executed, two sentences commuted, war implications.
14:43 Unauthorized plea deal, general fired, decision reversed.
18:19 Handling information on terrorism post-9/11 becomes politicized.
24:29 Ohio congressman reveals 99 terrorists entered US.
31:53 Ohio Secretary of State purges voter rolls.
37:51 World Federation of Advertisers dissolved GARM organization.
39:30 Claiming election reform as hate speech threatens discourse.
47:53 Jim Jordan praises decision as victory for oversight.
51:51 Interest in lakefront real estate and development plans.
58:02 Fear of left-wing politician winning election.
01:00:27 Uncertain about outcome, hoping for Congress split.
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
Alright, here we are. I am confused. My brain is scrambled. I don't know what to do. I think I need a little common sense ohio show dot com here on August 9, 2024. It's sort of a soft intro. I think I'll do something different today. But, anyway, we are coming at you week in, week out, Common Sense Ohio, where you can get all your needs for Common Sense fulfilled and satisfied, right here at the roundtable channel 511.
Steve Palmer [:Couple little quick announcements. You can catch all our past episodes, ask questions, give us comments, do whatever you want at commonsenseohioshow.com. You can also do it right on YouTube or right in, Facebook or whatever social media platforms you, you like, we are there, and we we clip shorts and videos, reels. I don't know all that stuff. I got some kids who might, but, it's all there. If you wanna check out Norm's blog, he is prolific in his blogging, and you can check that at commonsenseohioshow.com. If you wanna be a sponsor, we have a couple slots open. Shoot us a note.
Steve Palmer [:Where? Commonsenseohioshow.com. The other thing I'm gonna ask, we had it looks like a a good number of downloads this or this past month, and people the show is catching on like wildfire. And we're just asking you to like and share. Tell your neighbor. Tell your friend. Say, look. You don't have to like these guys, but at least they're speaking common sense. And they don't act like they know everything, but they do kick it around until they figure out some answers.
Steve Palmer [:And when they don't know, they don't know. When they do know, they tell you. And if they're if we're right, we tell you. If we're wrong, we tell you. If we don't know, we tell you. That's common sense, guys. That's that's where that's where progress is made. CIA Incorporated, progressive, progress here right at the roundtable on Common Sense Ohio Show.
Steve Palmer [:So, you know, week in week out, I've been doing World War 2 facts of the day, and it's always remarkable to me as a history major. You know, the old saying, if you don't study history, you're doomed to repeat it or destined to repeat it. And, you know, the it turns out a lot of what we're facing today is has been we we already treaded this ground. On this day in 1942, there were a bunch of there were several or, I think, 6 Nazi potential saboteurs executed. Alright. Now why does this matter, boy? Because we've got a little thing going on right now with our Guantanamo Bay terrorists, but we'll get to that in a second. But what happened is it's a fascinating story, and I I I remember hearing something about this, but I I confess I did some reading this morning. On June 13, 42, 4 men landed on a beach near a Maggenset, Long Island, New York from a German submarine, and what Germany was doing is they they recruited 8 people.
Steve Palmer [:They came in in 2 different groups of 4, and they landed ashore with a bunch of explosives and and, incendiary devices. And the idea was to bring the war to the United States. You know, one one of the things the US had back in those days was some isolationism, and that was good and bad. You know, we were isolated, and there's a lot of people after in the wake of World War one that said, we don't wanna get involved in this world mess. Sound familiar? And then there's, in in the Germany, it was like, well, that's not fair. You know, we're getting bombed. We've gotta fight on our own land, and, you know, our people are getting killed. Let's bring that war to the United States.
Steve Palmer [:So we're gonna send some some guys over there incognito, and they're gonna wreak some havoc. And it almost worked much like a lot of these plots. They never quite actually work. One of the groups landed without incident, and they sort of made their way in. They they buried their uniforms and clothing, etcetera. The other group, that had a couple guys in it, and I'll I'll say the names because it I think it was, Dosh, d a s c h. I say that right, Norm? Dosh? Dox? Dosh?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Dosh.
Steve Palmer [:Dosh? Yeah. And another guy named Burger. That's easy. Yeah. So Dosh decide you know, they what happened is the coast guard sort of stumbled upon one of these guys, and he was wearing his swim trunks and no and no shirt, whatever, in the second group. And the the guy offered a bribe to the coast guard and to keep quiet. And the coast guard like, this is this is great stuff. Like, this is Americanism at its best.
Steve Palmer [:The coast guard says, yeah. I'll I'll take your money, knowing full well that he's just gonna play this out and try to glean more information. You know, so it's like he's they they played him. So what happens is, they're sort of they get they make it to a train station or whatever, but eventually, Dost, decided that this wasn't good. His his resolution to be a saboteur for the fatherland faltered, says this article. Perhaps, he thought the whole project so grandiose as to be impractical and wanted to protect himself before some of his companions took action on similar doubts. He indicated so in other words, if somebody's gonna be as like, this is stupid. They probably land imagine landing in the United States, and you're a bunch of Nazis, and you're gonna act like you live there.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it's like, imagine how scary that would be.
Brett Johnson [:And that's a huge feat in itself. If you we mean, we think there are plenty of eyes looking at our our coast right now. During World War 2 For sure. We had private citizens, groups looking at the shores 247. Yeah. Yeah. Every spaced, every mile.
Steve Palmer [:And we didn't have, like Yeah. We didn't I don't think we had radar yet. We didn't have the the modern technology, but, you know, people were suspicious. Yeah. It's sort of like infiltrating the country, learning how to be a pilot using American resources and getting in a plane, and we'll get to that. But, anyway, they got scared, dosh, and told Berger, like, I I don't think I wanna go along with this. And they eventually called FBI headquarters and snitched and, cooperated, and and the whole thing was foiled. What is interesting about this and what is a parallel for what's going on now is that all these guys were eventually tried and convicted and sentenced to death.
Steve Palmer [:They were all given a death sentence. And, 6 of them were actually executed. And I'll see if I can get that date to the extent it may it was today. I guess they were executed. And then 2 of them, Hoover and I think one of the AGs involved wrote a letter to Roosevelt and said, why don't we commute commute the sentences of Dasch and Berger? And, that Roosevelt eventually did, and, they were given, 30 years to life. Eventually, they were sent back and deported and, went on to, I guess, live, or at least Dosh did. So, you know, we we back in 1942, we were willing to execute our, prisoners of war or these guys who were, potential saboteurs. And, you know, look, what's interesting about this is is this were these acts of war? Were these soldiers invading? Should they have been given a soldier's sentence? Like, you you know, you go to a prison camp, or was it something different? And the rules of engagement all sort of go out the window, it seems, in the midst of something like World War 2.
Steve Palmer [:But and now, we talked about this. Was it last week we talked about this, the prisoners of war the 911 prisoners war norm?
Norm Murdock [:Well, Steve, just just to interject, I believe under the Geneva Convention, which Germany and America were both signatories to then the Japanese famously were not, by the way. And, you know, he had the Burma death march and things like that in Japan.
Steve Palmer [:Ned King. The regime.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Germany, at least, was a signatory. And I believe one of the, if you if you will, rules of war under the Geneva Convention is if you were not taken prisoner in uniform, then you could be considered outside of the Geneva Convention. You were then a saboteur or a spy or something. And and these guys, of course, shed their uniforms after they hit the beach. Yep. Yeah. So they were not POWs.
Norm Murdock [:They were They
Steve Palmer [:were not.
Norm Murdock [:In a different classification.
Steve Palmer [:In a different but you can easily see how there was enough play in the joints where they could have done that. You know, they could have shown, like, p o w POWs and sent them off. And, obviously, times were I I think a lot of this has to do with the social, attitude towards what's going on in this in some particular I think it was very easy for us to say, hang these bastards, and get this done quickly.
Norm Murdock [:Well, hit Hitler well, hit Hitler had the same you know, you remember the great escape, for example, from the Stalin prison. Yep. When those when those guys were caught, the it was a prison. And when they were caught, you know, usually, they would return them back to the prison. But, technically, when Hitler ordered 50 of them to be executed, he was within the Geneva Convention because they weren't obviously, when they escaped into Germany and tried to take train rides to Switzerland or whatever, they weren't in American uniforms or British uniforms.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:So they they were executed, and that actually was not a war crime, for for Hitler to do that under the Geneva Convention.
Steve Palmer [:Well and and, you know, I think what we're talking about here was far more akin to a terrorist type attack. Right? I mean, the you know, these guys
Norm Murdock [:We were I'm sure I'm sure part of the mentality for the Nazis sending these guys by U boat, to land on the beach there in New Jersey or wherever you said. I'm sure part of the mentality was we were funding the Melisse, the French underground at the time, and they were blowing up German rails and, you know That's right. You know, like, we were funding the same activities in German held, German occupied areas and within Germany itself. So, I mean, we sent Moe Berg, a former Yankees, I think Yankees catcher. We he became an OSS agent. We sent him to assassinate, Heisenberg, Theodore Heisenberg.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:If if in Switzerland, if and he had a gun with him and walked Heisenberg back to the hotel trying to decide whether or not to to kill him, and it turned out the Nazis did not have a good, Adam Bob program. So we were doing all kinds of espionage, and Hitler, I'm sure, was his thinking was, oh, I'm gonna send agents to America and and give them some of their own medicine.
Steve Palmer [:Well and, you know, you also have to note. I think it's worth noting here that the stuff that these guys were gonna do, the the attacks, in other words, were probably not designed to to take on military targets. I think it was probably, you know, it was probably gonna be disruption of the infrastructure or whatever. And, you know, so civilians were gonna die.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, that that's a very common theme we're looking at these days too. It's like, what is what is the civilian casualty, and how does that play into the strategies of war? And is it is it a legitimate? Is it illegitimate? Is it just something that we accept that happens? Well, I can tell you this. In July, same date, 2, August 8 July 1940. I don't know why I'm keep saying July. In 1940, on this day, the Home Secretary announced July oh, here's why. So the Home the Home Secretary announces July civilian air raid casualty figures at 258 killed and 2 and 320 seriously injured. That's 1 month in 1940. Right? That was before Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:The real stuff started to happen. Yeah. Well, certainly before the bomb, and, you know, before Dresden. Yeah. The this is like like, civilians were killed, and I don't I didn't live in that time. I don't know what it felt like in that time. I don't know what the blowback in that time for civilian casualties was. But looking back on it, I think it was it started as something that was to be avoided.
Steve Palmer [:It ended as something that was just part of it.
Brett Johnson [:Got numb to it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. We got numb to
Brett Johnson [:it. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:I know I I I know, Steve, that, you admire the writing and speeches of Winston Churchill. And he had this phrase that the truth is protected by a bodyguard of lies. And and not only were we killing their civilians, get this story, Winston Churchill had to make a decision not to give away the fact that the British had radar that could detect incoming, Luftwaffe bombings.
Steve Palmer [:This is yeah.
Norm Murdock [:He did not wanna give away that secret. So he allowed Germany to bomb British towns and cities for a short period of time. He permitted his own people to be killed in order to protect this national security secret about British radar.
Steve Palmer [:Can can you imagine?
Norm Murdock [:Can you imagine?
Steve Palmer [:Right? Imagine what that took Yeah. And took away from him in his life? I mean, it's like you don't just and and Churchill was a guy who cared, but he was a tough son of a bitch too, and he was a smart guy. And he he saw this for what it was, where there you know, we got it. This is everything on the line right now.
Norm Murdock [:This is total warfare. Total warfare. Well, do you Yeah. You sacrifice your own people if necessary to protect the strategic asset.
Steve Palmer [:This was a fight for their very existence.
Norm Murdock [:Yes, sir.
Steve Palmer [:And and that kind of sacrifice was necessary to win it. I mean, that's how desperate things were back then. And and imagine look. France didn't didn't stand up to this. And in a lot of ways, at first, the US didn't either. You know? I mean, we were we were sort of sitting back waiting, and Churchill was on his own, out there on his his own little island, literally Yeah. And, in making these decisions that that were just, you know, historically, the most significant decisions ever made, really. I mean, it just it's really amazing.
Steve Palmer [:It it From from from deciding that we're gonna take on Hitler, and we'll do it alone, damn it, if we have to. And, you know, on the beaches, on the you know, it's like all like, he's gonna do it, and that's it. So Yeah. I mean, look. In today's day and age, we're sitting as a parallel. We're sitting on these prisoners, and last week, we talked about this, these terrorists, and there was a decision by Department of Justice to, offer a plea obligation or a plea deal.
Norm Murdock [:Department of Defense.
Steve Palmer [:Or Department of Defense to offer a plea deal of life in prison for these terrorists on 911. And, now now, Norm, I guess they've, reversed that decision.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, he claimed that the general in charge of the legal team that offered this plea agreement, He has he's claimed that he was not briefed ahead of time. And yet
Steve Palmer [:The general didn't brief him.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He was not he did not have advance notice. He heard about it on the news like everybody else, I guess. And this entire decision about whether or not to grant them life because of the waterboarding or to proceed with the death penalty, charges and a trial. And this is all 20 years later. Right? I mean, I mean, the the submarine guys, they were they were executed within, like, 6, 7 years of of of being arrested. But, anyway, 20 years later, Lloyd Austin, SecDef, says his general in charge of these legal proceedings did not even tell him that they had decided to offer this plea deal. So he fired the general in charge of the Gitmo legal proceedings, and he reversed the decision.
Norm Murdock [:And so, ostensibly, these three masterminds, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the guy who looks like John Belushi, and the other 2, apparently, they're gonna go ahead and and and have a military tribunal and decide execution. They're gonna get the death penalty.
Steve Palmer [:Probably. Let me correct something, though, Norm, because I think it's important.
Norm Murdock [:Go ahead. The
Steve Palmer [:the German saboteurs landed on June 13, 42. They were executed on August 8, 42. So, like, you Wow. There you go. Right.
Norm Murdock [:That's pretty swift, John.
Steve Palmer [:Less than 3 months later.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And and here we are 20 years later. The the German saboteurs never killed anybody. 20 years later after these guys killed 3,000 people. Right? We're still some this all go the the there's been heavy criticism of both George Bush and Obama, and I'm sure, Trump and Biden as well, that the military was kinda browbeaten into handling this as almost like a police like like a law enforcement action instead of handling it like they did in World War 2. Like, hey. You're saboteurs.
Steve Palmer [:Well
Norm Murdock [:You have no rights under the Geneva Convention. Bang, bang, you're dead.
Steve Palmer [:And there was a big debate back then. Are they criminals or are they war criminals? Know, was this an act are we in war, or is it not war? You know, it's like whatever it is. But either way, I mean, you would think the outcome should have been a bit swifter.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So there was great outrage, not only by Republicans, but by Democrats and the families of the 911 victims who wanted to depose these 3 guys. They're like, don't kill them. I mean, don't give them a don't give them a deal because they're gonna clam up. They have no incentive to do what Dosh did and at least, you know, like, openly confess or reveal like, if they cooperate with the families that are suing Saudi Arabia, for example. If they cooperate with their lawyers, I think it gives the terrorist lawyers a little bit of negotiating room. They can say, hey. These guys are cooperating.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look.
Brett Johnson [:What do they what do they know though 20 years later?
Steve Palmer [:Well, and what do they know that they haven't already told us 20 years later? I mean, so this is like, Yeah. You know, can you think that they do we really all think 3 of us sitting here at this table or anybody else reasonably think that the United States was ineffective in extracting information from these people over the last 20 years or at least during the time that they were getting waterboarded and tortured or whatever was going on down there. I I have a hunch that we have already obtained and extracted whatever information There's
Brett Johnson [:nothing else.
Steve Palmer [:To be had. So now it just comes down to what the hell do you do with it now? I mean, so this is all to me, this is all political optics. You know? You know, it's like they've been sitting down there for 20 years. We did these horrible things to these people that shocked the conscious of some people that other people thought, well, this is what you should do to somebody because they were they are sworn enemies. Let's get the information we need. They after all, they hijacked planes and crashed them into our buildings and killed 3,000 people. It's like you know, it but the problem now is it's become political. And, particularly, think how much the climate has changed since then.
Steve Palmer [:It's like now we're now we've got sympathizers for, for Hamas
Norm Murdock [:Hamas.
Steve Palmer [:Who who who are you know, I mean, these people are horrible terrorists killing babies. I mean, and and that's well, then, you know, they've had such a rough existence that they should kill babies. It's like it's bullshit. It's bullshit on every level, but it's become political. And now I think our government just don't know what to do with it.
Norm Murdock [:So so, Steve, they're they're you know, we like to think, you know, basically, because we see Band of Brothers and, you know, Saving Private Ryan. We like to think that, like, as Americans, we we want to believe that we were always ethical. And when somebody put their hands up in World War 2 that we took a prisoner.
Steve Palmer [:Far from it.
Norm Murdock [:After Malmedy, you know, during the bulge, when the SS under Joaquin Piper, when when they machine gunned all of these US engineer, the these guys were road builders. They were engineers, and they mowed them down in a field and just left them, you know, to freeze. They were dead.
Steve Palmer [:And and back to your back to your point, they were wearing American uniform. They being the the Nazis uniform. Procured American uniforms, got behind scene. It could be got behind enemy lines and started switching, fence posts or, road signs and, confusing and doing all sorts of things. And So under
Norm Murdock [:under the Geneva Convention, that was a war crime, what they did.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:And the and Joaquin Piper and that unit stood trial after the war for that war crime, and they were eventually exonerated because they couldn't prove that any order was ever issued for them to do that. That just some sergeant or lieutenant went off on his own and did that. And the allegation is that the management did not order that. But my point about that story is that our own 82nd airborne and a 101st, you know, screaming eagles, for a few weeks after that incident, I'm told by veterans of both of those, airborne divisions, they didn't take any effing prisoners.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:They they, you know, they they heard about the massacre, you know, and, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But that's what happens. Right? It's like this is the seesaw that happens in war and war. That's right. But so look. What does this mean for our prisoners now? I think this has become political. Too much time has gone past. So now it's a decision. Like, we we I don't think anybody knows what to do with them.
Steve Palmer [:So put them on trial. I have a decision. Do whatever. Yeah. But the reality is I don't and this this may not be popular on one side or the other, the political fence. I don't care if they get life in prison. In fact, know, that may be worse for them as I said last week in some ways. Oh.
Steve Palmer [:Let them just rot in an American prison and die. Yeah. If these people wanna die for Allah or whatever the hell their belief is, don't let them do it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Although their attorneys are fighting like hell to keep them alive. So Well, it's apparently, they wanna be alive.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. No. No. But this look. This is an interesting this is an interesting component to what I do for a living. Right? I am a criminal defense attorney, and there are people that do this for the cause, and there are people that do it for the clients.
Steve Palmer [:A lot of death penalty litigators do it for the cause. You know, and and it's not it's like how can you argue with you you can say the cause of saving lives and anti death penalty lines up with your client's interest, and and I think by and large that's probably true. But look, I I've had people I've had I've I've been involved in cases and heard of clients who say, just kill me. I don't wanna spend life in prison. Just give me the death sentence. I'm not gonna contest it. And and the lawyers fight for the bigger picture of the cause. So look, the lawyers are were trained as criminal defense lawyers.
Steve Palmer [:We being criminal defense lawyers are trained, not me necessarily, but when when we do court appointed work, for instance, on a death penalty case, we go we have to go to seminars. In Ohio, it's called Rule 20 Certification. In Rule 20 Certification, you have to go complete this 24 hours every 2 years or something, death penalty training in order to defend death penalty cases Wow. Paid for by the court. So on a like a public defender type thing. You can do it privately without that. But the teaching is anti death penalty, you know, completely anti death penalty. And I'm not saying that's wrong.
Steve Palmer [:I'm just saying that's the ideology. So Americans would say death penalty bad. Other ethnic, other cultures, other countries may say something different. You know? And and look, in 1942, the death penalty was pretty ubiquitous, and everybody accepted it. Now we don't. So times have changed, you know, and this is the problem. This is like wokeness. It's it's like the functional equivalent of an ex post facto law.
Steve Palmer [:And we're looking at this with the lens we're looking at 1942, this these executions with the lens of 2024. And to some extent, we're looking at, the 911 consequences with the lens, a lens 20 years old, and times have changed. You know, times have changed. And this is why you can't if you if people are judging our founders because they may have owned slaves or whatever for whatever purpose. And if you think that you're immune from whatever the cultural influences at the time and if you'd go back in a time machine, without our perspective today, you'd have been different. I think that's a little bit arrogant. You know, things were things happened quickly at the time based on the influences of the time, based on what's going on at the time. We were in a world conflict in 1942.
Steve Palmer [:We executed these people immediately, And I think had this have gone to trial quicker in 911, these people had already been executed.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, within the 1st year. Yeah. Easily. Easily. Everybody's everybody's sentiment, yeah, was just Yeah. Done. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I agree.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. You know, guys, this kind this discussion about terrorists kinda feeds into the border revelations that, Ohio's congressman Jim Jordan, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, He noted and it took a lot of, it took a lot of, waiting to get this data. But homeland eventually coughed up data that 99 people on the terrorist watch list. Okay? They're on the terrorist watch list, and they they were apprehended by, customs and border patrol and processed, and then released into the into America, into the country, pending their, you know, immigration review date with the with the immigration court. 99 people on the terrorist watch list, which just with a couple keystrokes on your keyboard, if you know, you know, Ahmed is a is a terrorist from Tajikistan. Right? And he's in the database, and there he is standing in front of you having crossed over, you know, in Eagles Pass, Texas. And you're you're a CPB guy. Right? And you're and you're and you got him.
Norm Murdock [:And then 3 days later after he's processed, he is released into the country.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. This is gross, man. I mean, this is like
Norm Murdock [:It's unbelievable.
Steve Palmer [:I hate the government. I I just I I cannot stand the government. I mean, it's like, this kind of shit I'm I'm swearing too much today. This kind of crap is, is so insanely frustrating. And it's gonna get whitewashed by the media who's on one side, and it'll get highlighted by the politics on the other side. I I mean, but anybody who looked at this and says anything other than this is lunacy is not listening and not exercising common sense.
Brett Johnson [:So what good is the list? What what does it do? Yes. What what does it activate? What is it Right. When you're when you're caught, Would you they find you? What's the process? Now he's waiting to be that doesn't yeah. It's like we're missing a a step here.
Steve Palmer [:Something right.
Brett Johnson [:Something isn't right with this.
Steve Palmer [:Nobody. And and, I mean, look. And and if somebody is cool with letting terrorists go free in our country, then she then that person's a criminal. I mean, this is not Why have the list? Why have the list?
Brett Johnson [:Why have the list?
Steve Palmer [:This one's easy. It's like Yeah. I mean, if I taken a red pill for the past maybe maybe I have. Maybe I've slowly taken a red pill for the past 30 years representing folks charged with crimes, watching government incompetence prosecute crimes. And you can say most of the time they get it right, and that's probably true. But you can also I can I've also seen so many times when it's just folly at the highest of the highest order. You know, it's like, I'm I'm working on a case right now where, you know, there's 3 witnesses to a crime. Like, in the same bed of an alleged rape, there's 3 witnesses, and the police didn't interview him.
Steve Palmer [:And it's like, what's going on in the world? And, you know, if so I guess I'm only saying this to say, we have a I think, generally, people have a comfort level that if the government is doing something, it's doing it well. And I think quite the opposite is true. I I I really do. I I think we've gotten to a point where if the government's it's doing something, it's not doing it well. It's doing it crappy. And Yeah. And if if We The People don't monitor this, expose it, and and and push back on it, now we're getting shouted down as being, you know, whatever. You know, you're a racist or you're this or that if you start pointing the stuff out.
Steve Palmer [:But this is insane. This is utter insanity.
Norm Murdock [:Utter insanity.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you know, your your point of, you know, the government do it. We we think the government's doing the right thing when they're in action, and I just saw this pop up today that, this, this, session of congress only passed 78 laws.
Steve Palmer [:Right. They did nothing. Right. Yes.
Brett Johnson [:They did nothing. That's a good thing.
Steve Palmer [:It it just is Isn't
Brett Johnson [:that great? That's that's That's great.
Steve Palmer [:Except for this. They didn't have to pass any additional laws because they've delegated everything to the administrative unrepresentative body of government, which is
Brett Johnson [:And and it only happened because of all the infighting between each Oh,
Steve Palmer [:that's right.
Brett Johnson [:Their respective parties.
Steve Palmer [:Look. You
Brett Johnson [:know, the how many up votes, down votes they had for, you know, the beginning of this of of the session, and that that was what? 3 month ordeal,
Steve Palmer [:I think. Folly. But but
Brett Johnson [:it's they still got 78 public laws passed, though, but I'm thinking 78. Yes. That's a good low number.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Keep it lower. Well or That's fine. Look. And and maybe this is a way to turn to the election. It's like, if nothing else, I pray that we have a split up government, that whoever gets the White House doesn't get Congress
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. Etcetera. So this Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:This this always sounds, cynical. But in reality, many of us I'll speak for myself, and I think, Steve, you kind of, you know, referred to yourself this way also. I am totally pro gridlock. Yes.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. Totally. Because a lot more gets done better because of gridlock. Look. More discussions happen. More if we It gets out in the open.
Steve Palmer [:And and that's a that's a more nuanced view, and I it's probably more accurate. But I look at it this way. The government sucks. It's terrible. Yeah. It doesn't do anything really well. Yeah. So the less it does, the better.
Steve Palmer [:The less damage it can do.
Brett Johnson [:And Slow the hell down.
Steve Palmer [:Right. The less and, you know, as Thomas Sowell says, you know, like, the the problem with policies of the government and particularly administrative state and the executive orders is that they're never judged by the outcome, only by the intent. And so if your goal is to is, you know, fair housing for free housing for all, it's like you you you invoke or you enact all these stupid policies that that result in, like, financial disaster that happens in 2008. But, you know, you know, you were either the goal was was to get everybody fair housing or whatever or No.
Brett Johnson [:The goal was was the news coverage of you passing it with your name on it and not following up 5 years later on what really happened.
Steve Palmer [:And the footnote is the people who enact that debacle aren't the ones judged by it because by the time it all comes to fruition, they're gone.
Brett Johnson [:They're gone.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's like or they you know what they the other and the people who are still around, what do they say? Well, wasn't our fault. You guys just wouldn't let me do more.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah. The was it Ben Franklin or somebody the old aphorism that the path to hell is paved with good intentions. Yeah. And, you
Brett Johnson [:know Well, and the founders intend to saying, but it has a lot of truism to it.
Steve Palmer [:And and and the founders intended on a federal government that was weak and unable to effectuate things. So when I hear one side or the other say, well, you know, we need the federal government can fix this, do that, or do whatever. It's like, no. It can't. It can't do it. It's not smart enough to do it. It's not good enough to do it, And most of the time, it's not possible to do it even if they were smart enough and good enough. So this is not like, if you think that you've got the solution for whatever and just give me the governmental power to execute it, then, again, that that's narcissism of the highest order.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. One one Mic drop moment.
Brett Johnson [:Thank god. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I know.
Norm Murdock [:One one last, little, kinda tie in to the, illegal immigration thing. Here in Ohio, the secretary of state, Frank LaRose, who's been on our program, by the way, he is in charge of the voter roles in Ohio. He has found 500 noncitizens registered to vote, and he he he excised them off of the voter rolls. But massively, he has found a 155,000 Ohio registered voters that are either dead, they're duplicates, or they're inactive after several years of not voting, in some sort of category where he has dropped them from the voter rolls. And we have had elections in Ohio of these 500 illegals that are noncitizens that are were registered. We've had, state representatives in Ohio that have the the race between 1 or the other candidate has come down to a single vote. So, you you know, the people who say, oh, 500 people, that's very minimal for illegals to be registered. Well, I mean, we've had people not win office in Ohio over a single vote.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look.
Norm Murdock [:So every vote does matter.
Brett Johnson [:We we get the 500 illegals that are registered to vote. What in our system did not catch that?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. How does that happen?
Brett Johnson [:How does that happen? I mean, LaRose comes in and, you know, becomes the hero. It's like, look what I found. It's like
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It happened.
Brett Johnson [:It happened, though. Yeah. How did 500 and a 150, that's that yeah. That make that's a cleansing. You the dead people, that's right. I mean, that makes sense. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It's a purge.
Brett Johnson [:People die. You know? I mean, you just have to or they are inactive for what is it? A 3 year, 4 year period, or something
Steve Palmer [:like that? Yeah. Yeah. You know?
Brett Johnson [:And that's easy enough to reregister and go vote, and that's cool. But the how did that 500 happen under anybody's watch?
Steve Palmer [:Under anybody's watch. How does that go down? Right?
Norm Murdock [:Well well, we did have this system where where you could waddle in to the voting, you know, look, poll to to the voting location. You could waddle in, and your identification could be as little as a utility bill in your name.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That that was enough to identify you as a legitimate voter, believe it
Steve Palmer [:or not.
Brett Johnson [:And the but both parties are at the poll accepting it, though.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know Because they were
Brett Johnson [:still still not right. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well, we were too checking until recently to pass, a voter ID law that required a photo ID Yeah. Which we now have in Ohio.
Brett Johnson [:Which which is, again, photo IDs are easy enough to get through the city if you are homeless per se, because it gets you eligible for some help.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So you can
Brett Johnson [:get a voter. You can get that ID fairly easily.
Steve Palmer [:I do not buy. Which is fine. Which is fine. I I I just don't subscribe to this argument that it's racist to have to require photo IDs.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:In fact, that's
Brett Johnson [:where I was going with it, basically.
Steve Palmer [:I think it's racist not to, or or the arguments in favor of not requiring it are racist. Like, if you think that there's a minority group or an ethnic group or anybody else in the country that is not capable of obtaining a photo ID because of their race or their status, Like, just go ask that group if they have a photo ID and almost all of them will pull them out, you know.
Brett Johnson [:How do you exist without one today?
Norm Murdock [:Right. You know, Brett You
Brett Johnson [:know, you know, it's it's rough if you don't. It's rough.
Norm Murdock [:I think it's Yeah. It was a George Bush the first or the second used to say about these issues that it's actually bigotry to have low expectations.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. The soft bigotry of low expectations. That's true. Old saying.
Norm Murdock [:You know, like Yeah. Are are you kidding me? Are you telling me Ben Carson, you know, or Barack Obama?
Steve Palmer [:Or anybody else whose skin color is different than white. Are they not are they so inept that they can't get an ID?
Brett Johnson [:And that we don't have safety measures in place that can help them get an ID.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's right.
Brett Johnson [:The social groups, the nonprofits that are out there to help out.
Steve Palmer [:Here's where here here's where it my my response to the these arguments is always the same. Well, look, your government, your being the person promoting this argument, seems to be capable of almost everything. Is it not also capable of creating only identification cards for voting, and then go give them out to citizens? Like, you're going to knocking on doors and harvesting votes from people. Why not go out and harvest IDs for people and give them an ID? Go around with a mobile device that prints out an ID that says, hey. What's your name? Good. Oh, yeah. We know you here. You're right on our rules.
Steve Palmer [:Here's an ID. Now you can vote. Why do you have to go vote for them? Right? It's like Yeah. You know, it's like they don't wanna hear that because that's a solution that eliminates the voter fraud.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. The harvesting. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Or the harvesting or worse, the voter fraud. Yeah. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Or yeah. Right. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And gets people IDs to do everything else they need to do in our society.
Norm Murdock [:So can we switch to this big, victory for Elon Musk and for Rumble that happened yesterday? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I was talking about
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. This was a little inside baseball, and I don't know if it'll ever hit, like, mainstream media. But yesterday, a World Economic Forum, WEF, you know, what's what do you call them, Steve? Spectre?
Steve Palmer [:Spectre. The the
Norm Murdock [:the these guys are affiliated with an organization called the World Federation of Advertisers. Okay? They're they're like sister organizations. The World Federation of Advertisers started a project called the Global Alliance For Responsible Media GAR. Or GARM GARM. If you wanna use the acronym. Yeah. GARM. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yesterday, the the World Federation of Advertisers decided to after Elon sued them and Rumble sued them, and I'll tell you why in just a second, but they decided yesterday to dissolve this GARM organization. So what GARM was doing, it started in 2019 before the 2020 elections, before COVID. And what and what they decided to do was if they couldn't create a ministry of truth, which, you know, Biden tried to establish, and and and then he went back on that. The WEF wanted to basically control the, truth ministry. And the way they would do this is by taking advertising dollars away from any platform or show like ours, or, you know, more significant shows like Tucker Carlson or, you know, whoever.
Brett Johnson [:And it went on the other it it it or Twitter. Yeah. And it went on the it it it did the other side as well too that there were a lot of black focused podcasters that were on that Garm list. That's right. Did not get advertising because it did not their systems didn't understand the cultural content that they were talking about. Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:So they
Brett Johnson [:were on the list they were on the on the on the on the no buy zone.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So the garm the garm list, it included ostensibly hate speeches. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:So so it's hate speech, right, to to dis to discuss election reform, which we just did about voting reform. That would be considered hate speech because we're trying to disenfranchise minorities from voting because we want voter ID, that kind of thing, and and misinformation and disinformation. So this became how they throttled people, you know, platforms, where people wanted to discuss alternatives to treating COVID or what COVID was about or, you know, other theories talking about how it you know, the origination of COVID. Yeah. This all became the so under our own. So Americans naturally picked up on this. And under Biden, the Department of Defense, let out 1,000,000 of dollars in contracts to the United States version of, GARM called NewsGuard. And listen to the people that are on the board of NewsGuard.
Norm Murdock [:Okay? Ex CIA director, Mike Hayden, Michelle Sumillis, former head of the Gates Foundation, Samantha Powers, head of the US UN delegation under Obama, Jimmy Wales, founder of WikiLeaks or Wiki Wikipedia, Tom Ridge, ex head of Homeland Security, and Richard Stengel, former undersecretary of state under Obama.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's specter.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, come on. These people are deciding what is misinformation and disinformation and then what they did. And the reason Elon sued them is they told Ford, Coca Cola, Google, Microsoft, all of these big advertisers, you know, hey. You wanna do the you wanna do business with the Department of Defense and the sec and the and the state department, guess what? These are not approved platforms because they put out hate speech and disinformation.
Steve Palmer [:So look, these companies are gonna obviously, they'll just say, well, fine. We'll just go spend our dollars anywhere else. I mean, and That's right. This is this stuff is abhorrent to me. I mean, on every level, this stuff is abhorrent to me.
Norm Murdock [:It's outsourcing censorship.
Steve Palmer [:And it it's like Yeah. How is it? What what's the on a on a more esoteric note, how is it that Elon Musk happens to exist today? You know, it's like it's it's like without that guy, so much would be different.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Yeah. And and it's it's funny. I was thinking about him the other day. I was watching this interview between Elon Musk and Don Lemon. And Elon basically just dismantles the guy. I mean, it's, like, it's about this stuff where, you know, Lemon's talking about censorship and hate speech and and Musk, like, yeah. You're in favor of, of censorship. And and Lemon's like, no.
Steve Palmer [:I'm not. He goes, well, yes, you are. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. Like, I I mean, I just favor hate speech says Lemon. It's like, right. You wanna censor our speech? Because when you say hate speech, it has such a it casts such a broad net that you can fit whatever you want politically within that net, and then justify censoring it.
Steve Palmer [:And and if you add the government behind it using a lever, right, like, we won't give you contracts, or you'll be at the bottom of the contract list, just coincidentally, unless you follow our rules. Well, then that's a government lever of power that is censorship, and that is tantamount to the Department of Truth. Right? The Ministry of Truth is in Orwell's 84 1984.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's just late, you know, that these organizations develop like GARM because you have these large advertising bodies, the Pepsi's, the the Coca Cola's, the the GM, the Fords of the world, because they're too damn lazy to figure out where they should or shouldn't be. They they they don't wanna be anywhere that's negative or it looks bad for them. So they have to rely on these organization outsource information. You know, organizations that that have a bad filter. I
Steve Palmer [:no. I'm not yeah. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'm what I'm worried about is that these big companies are subscribing to these organizations because they know that's what the federal government wants them to do. And there's a piece
Brett Johnson [:to that too. Yeah. There you go.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And You go around that. Easier for them to it's easier in a way because they can say, look. I just did what you guys said to do, so leave me alone.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, we had the same, situation when, when I was working in radio, the the blitz started carrying Howard Stern.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Brett Johnson [:Well, if you carried Howard Stern or Rush Limbaugh, you were on a blacklist. Really? And some advertisers would that was a no touch. You don't touch that station. You don't touch that time that that dry period or when it was. Rush was always on that. Stern was on that for a while, and advertisers started to get smarter about it because that was media agencies that were lazy and didn't understand who was actually listening and didn't wanna be part of any controversial programming. Right. Well, not understanding is, like, wait a minute.
Brett Johnson [:Your your your your potential buyers are on. They're listening to that show.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Yes. So it's both things it's both things are true because those people, the smaller advertisers advertisers Mhmm. Weren't as susceptible to the government lever because they weren't in that sphere of influence that mattered.
Brett Johnson [:They didn't they they weren't they weren't under the contracts.
Steve Palmer [:But Right. But there's something bigger going on here. The the what's going on here is fascism, right, in in in a huge way is is
Brett Johnson [:Yes. It is.
Steve Palmer [:When so everybody would say back in 2008, well, the government didn't control the banks. Well, b s, the government absolutely controlled the banks because the government regulates things down to where you can put a bank in a particular city, and everything is regulated. So if you think you're gonna go apply for a permit and and just or you think you're just gonna go build a bank on a corner and start a bank, no. You've gotta you gotta plow through a bunch of government regulations.
Brett Johnson [:You open up an account at a bank. How many pieces of paper do you have to sign?
Steve Palmer [:That's
Brett Johnson [:right. It's because of regulation.
Steve Palmer [:And they can regulate you collaterally out of existence or even stop your existence to begin with. So you're gonna go play nice with the government and do it at once because that's in your financial interest to do it or even maybe in your own in your your, quest to exist at all. So the same thing is the government has done this outwardly and inwardly for years. You know, it's like conditional funding for highways. You want, oh, you wanna have, your highways fixed, and you gotta make the drinking age 21.
Brett Johnson [:And speed limit only 65.
Steve Palmer [:It's 65. Right. If you want 60 if you don't if you have 70, we're not gonna give you money. You know, it's like these are these are the the sort of the backward soft indirect governmental control. And when the government takes control of private and and and public business public corporation businesses, that's fascism. That's what it is. It's just done in a backwards way.
Norm Murdock [:It it's interesting to look at the bureaucratic method. So to give themselves plausible deniability, the state department and the department of defense, they outsource the the the, listing of who's the bad guys are, who the disinformation people are and the hate speeches are to this news guard organization that's headed by, you know, the revolving
Steve Palmer [:Partisan. Swampers. Yeah. Partisan. Partisan swampers. Yeah. Absolutely. You know?
Norm Murdock [:And then they tell, and then they write a report. It goes back to DOD and state, and then state, you know, puts out this information, to its, you know, advertising partners that that do business with the federal government. And it becomes like, hey. We're not telling you, but we're recommending. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Just like Elvis Chan out there in Silicon Valley, the FBI agent. Hey. We're just recommending you like your section 2 30 protections here at Twitter, don't you? So we're just recommending that you do not put on, you know, this particular show, Dan Bongino or whoever. You know, deplatform him off of your network. Yep. Take his Twitter account down, whatever.
Steve Palmer [:So this is creating a schism in society. I mean, you're already seeing it, like, with Rumble and some of these other platforms. They're like, you know what? Screw you. We're not gonna play in your sandbox anymore. We're gonna go do our own. And and now I wonder so now it's more exposed. So not only not only is the government not only is Rumbles so for the if you're gonna go create your own, so to speak, and live create a parallel existence, your neck is out, but it is also in the public when your neck gets cut or when your head gets cut off. So when the government
Norm Murdock [:So Jim Jim Jordan on this, on this decision yesterday to roll up, GARM, Jim Jordan called it a big win for oversight. Yep. That, you know, that Elon Musk and, the House Judiciary Committee and other people, free speech. Even liberal ones like Matt Taibbi, the one who the journalist who put out all those Twitter files with Elon Musk, He is no Republican. He's no he's no conservative. If you read Matt Taibbi's books and articles, he's a a flaming lefty, but he believes in he believes in free speech, like Alan Dershowitz and other classic liberals who who may have very progressive views, but they think free speech is sacred. And and and we're losing some of those liberals. And it's it's it's really good to see Matt Taibbi and and other liberals, who who who's the guy, that that that, I guess he's in Australia now, the the head of WikiLeaks.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know, people people people like that that stick up for free speech.
Steve Palmer [:Musk. Elon Musk. You know, 20 years ago or, you know, however long ago, I look at Musk, and I I saw him as a to completely different. But he's a classical liberal who has sort of said, not on my watch. And I you can't I've got so much power, so much money, and so much I don't give an f that you can't move me. You cannot get to me. But his empire was built on government subsidies for Tesla, though.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Absolutely. Think about it.
Steve Palmer [:That's what 20 years ago, I looked at this like this was as he he was built on sub season. I still think Tesla is a look. I it's I I still think electric cars are a stupid product, and at least until the until they can exist without subsidies. Right. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. To Brett's point to Brett's point, I read in, Bloomberg or or one of the, you know, papers that covers, the automotive industry. And Tesla's 30% of Tesla's profit is is from government subsidies. Yeah. 30%. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's massive.
Brett Johnson [:Right? It is. Yeah. That if that they get pulls if that's get the if that gets pulled away, he shuts
Norm Murdock [:down.
Brett Johnson [:That that's a shutdown number. That truly is.
Steve Palmer [:So
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. You just can't make that up. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It sure is.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It sure is. Wow. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, let's talk about it.
Norm Murdock [:Local news, guys.
Steve Palmer [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Did you catch that the Browns I think yesterday, the the the Cleveland Browns NFL team announced that it is gonna build a $2,400,000,000 new stadium in Brook Park, Ohio, which is a suburb south of Cleveland, pretty far south
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Of downtown Cleveland. So they're gonna get off the lakefront because the FAA will not let them build a dome over the existing Brown Stadium because it blocks, I guess, some kind of airspace for the general aircraft airport right there, Burke Lakefront Airport. So under that mentality or using that as the onus, They're they're asking local government and the state of Ohio to provide half of that 2.4 bill. So they want the taxpayers to cough up 1,200,000,000 of the 2.4. Screw that.
Brett Johnson [:No. No.
Steve Palmer [:No. Yeah. I look. No. I I'm with you.
Brett Johnson [:I I need taxpayer
Steve Palmer [:subsidized Bullshit. No. Private facilities like this.
Brett Johnson [:And and and moving a stadium from downtown Cleveland is gonna hurt downtown Cleveland. Well, I mean, look. There's That's bullshit.
Steve Palmer [:I I I know this. I have been up there a couple times. As I walked around at Sam, I thought, this is prime real estate right here.
Brett Johnson [:It is.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, this is, like It is. Holy crap. Right on the lake? Yeah. And Is that You know, it's, like so I wonder who's buying that real estate and what their and what the development plans are. And is and I wonder so that's clearly the motivation. Right? I mean, you know, I don't know if that stadium's I I don't know if that's a it seems like a really nice NFL stadium to me. I've been there a few times and, you know, who knows? But Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Sure it can always be better.
Steve Palmer [:You know? We gotta get it. We gotta get an insight. We gotta get a Clevelander on the show to discuss this.
Norm Murdock [:Is isn't that stadium built? It's right next to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's all right down there. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And that and that stadium was built after the Browns franchise returned to Cleveland or they created a new one. Yep. It's a it's a fairly new stadium. Right? I mean, like, maybe 20 years old.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I mean, probably about right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. So but
Steve Palmer [:it it's, look. This is like when they built the Denver airport where they built the Denver airport. You know, it's like, who's who's who's getting the money from the land? Who's paying for it? And what are they gonna do with the land that they're departing? You know, it's like it's,
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I I don't know what the connection is of all this, but the this is like what I like to say. I would wanna know these things before I completely evaluated this decision.
Brett Johnson [:And just the audacity that they are asking us to pay for half of
Steve Palmer [:To pay for it. Right? Well, this has happened before.
Brett Johnson [:I know it is. And every every story with a a rebuild or a move of a stadium just blows my mind that they have the audacity to ask us
Steve Palmer [:for I agree.
Brett Johnson [:For something that's just it's just a freaking sporting event.
Steve Palmer [:It's a and look. If it doesn't rise or fall, if it doesn't stand on its own, then why? Didn't we do this with the Blue Jackets 2 years ago? Yeah. Exactly. We went through the same thing.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. When when the mayor at the time saying there's no plan b
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:To to build it. And guess what? There was a plan b because a damn thing got built.
Steve Palmer [:It got built. Right. So Yeah. Look. Yeah. You know, I you're gonna take the free money and say, if I don't get the free money, then we can't build
Norm Murdock [:it. If I recall right, the voters had a an issue. The local Franklin County voters had an issue twice on the ballot, and they turned it down.
Steve Palmer [:Turned it down. Yeah. And guess what? They built the arena.
Brett Johnson [:It was a great anyway. It was a grassroots effort. If I remember correctly, too, grassroots effort to turn it down and it it very little money spent. Yeah. That they made the they they made the argument vocally. You heard, this doesn't make sense economically, and it was heard.
Steve Palmer [:I wonder, though, if it were the Buckeyes. And I get it couldn't be because that's that's a that's a separate thing. But if it were like a see, because we're talking about the Cleveland Browns here. You know. I know. We're talking so it it nobody cared about hockey coming or not coming to Columbus. I don't wanna say nobody, but it's not like we had a darling hockey team for the for as long as we can remember. You know? It's like Blue Jackets.
Steve Palmer [:What the freak is a Blue Jacket? You know, we don't care about hockey here. But now we're not paying for any hockey arena. This is stupid. And, you know, by and large, like, remember that property down there? It still changes hands all the time, the the real estate and all the all the, all those real retail space, but it's Cleveland Browns. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and and Like, we
Steve Palmer [:don't wanna lose those Browns, so we're gonna pay for it.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and the Brownie fans, I'm sure, are thinking, wow. New stadium. That'd be great. You're great. New atmospheres. Like, they're gonna pay their ticket sales, ticket prices will be unbelievable. And and Unbelievable. They will
Steve Palmer [:be the The Browns fans are a breed of their own.
Brett Johnson [:They are. For sure.
Steve Palmer [:They will just as soon, watch on you know, it's like, who knows what they like, you can't predict how they're gonna respond to this. You know, some of them may say this is awesome. Yeah. But some you know, you can just see these old birds carrying dog houses into the dog pound. I'll sit here and drink my 12 pack. You know, it's like. Yep. And I'm with them, man.
Steve Palmer [:I love it. I love going up there to watch those guys.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It it it it they are a unique community. Yeah. The the Clevelanders. I mean, I love them.
Norm Murdock [:They're they're, you know, they're great people, but they live hard, man. I mean, you know, the the lake effect snow and and all that in the wintertime. It's like Buffalo, New York. You've gotta be kind of a different person to survive the winter up there.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's brutal.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's brutal. And and, again, it's that uniqueness of downtown life. And it's it's I I I've forgotten about this, how down in Cincinnati, we went to go see Billy Joel a few years ago after he came back and played at Great American Ballpark. And and everyone got out Great American Ballpark after the concert, and that massive humanity just takes over the streets. Yeah. No cars can get through, and I'd forgotten that. This is so cool.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's cool.
Brett Johnson [:It's just a different feel, and you start to dismantle that by taking your things away.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's a great point. It's better downtown Cleveland It just because of this. Right? It's it's really cool.
Norm Murdock [:I'll tell a little story. I was offered a job in Cleveland to relocate from Columbus, same employer. Mhmm. And he said, why don't you just move to Cleveland? You know, we'll pay your we'll pay your, you know, all your housing costs and all that to relocate. And I said, the only way I'll move to Cleveland is if you get my salary needs to be $1,000 for each cloudy day. And and he looked up the average cloudy day in Cleveland was, like, over 200 days.
Steve Palmer [:Like, 300. I remember my buddy who moved to Colorado says, I moved out here because we get 300 sunny days a year, and you're living in a 100. Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Well, look. Let's we we had a comment real quickly about the election, then we probably had to wrap it up Yeah. With a campaign. I mean, you you you or unless you had something else you wanted to cover, I guess.
Brett Johnson [:No. No. I actually had a little, you know, Kamala, and Tim Waltz,
Norm Murdock [:had a little, you know, Kamala, and Tim waltz a couple of items, but go go ahead. You're talking about comma chameleon? Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma chameleon.
Norm Murdock [:She's scrubbing. She's trying to scrub
Steve Palmer [:She changed her mind. Her
Norm Murdock [:past statement. Men.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. She changed her mind. We should bring you in with it. We'll do another song.
Norm Murdock [:She's reinventing herself.
Steve Palmer [:Kama the chameleon. Yeah. So all of a sudden, she's moderate on everything.
Brett Johnson [:But what politician does it, though?
Steve Palmer [:Oh, I know. But
Brett Johnson [:You know. I know. I know. I know. The point point take
Steve Palmer [:This one is this one is so blatant. Look, I and the reason there what what politician doesn't I I get it. But she is as far left and radical as anybody that's ever had any power of this type in our in our history. Right? Yeah. And and Walt is no different. And now they're just saying a different thing, and they've painted her up. And I think she's gonna win. I mean, I I hate to say that, but I am definitely afraid that she's that that there's not enough time to expose all this.
Steve Palmer [:Early voting starts when? Like, in a month?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Next next month.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. I yeah. I lost track. I don't know. It's a good point. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:This is this is the bait and switch. I mean, this this is what makes this so crazy how all this happened. You know, she gets ordained at the last minute, and you can't tell me it wasn't orchestrated. It was absolutely orchestrated. I bet even the timing was orchestrated. But Yeah. It And
Norm Murdock [:she's doing she's doing that basement campaign like Biden did. And she should. She's just not she's not granting press conferences or interviews.
Steve Palmer [:Nobody has asked her any question about a policy. 0.
Norm Murdock [:So it's all gonna be image, her smiley face. Yeah. You know, and don't I look so youthful compared to Trump, and I'm such a nice person and, you know, and all of these, you know, thing aesthetics that just don't matter.
Steve Palmer [:You know, I don't. Policies
Norm Murdock [:that she needs to explain.
Brett Johnson [:It it it I happened upon the Mondale Reagan debate in 84 and watched about a half hour of that. And it was just so refreshing to hear 2 candidates just stand and talk about stuff.
Steve Palmer [:And talk about stuff and
Brett Johnson [:It it was like
Steve Palmer [:this is
Brett Johnson [:a whole different world for you.
Steve Palmer [:Respectful way.
Brett Johnson [:I know. You know, and it just it it just whether you believed what Mondale or Reagan was saying, it doesn't matter. They were optics back 40 years ago. That was a really interesting debate. They they
Norm Murdock [:were talking. Dignified.
Brett Johnson [:They were talking.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It was dignified. Yeah. Yeah. And their put downs their put downs were were, much nicer. So I remember Reagan, for example, saying, I will not hold my opponent's youth and inexperienced dance. Right.
Steve Palmer [:That's great. Class is great.
Norm Murdock [:You know, because they were claiming
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:They were claiming Ronnie. You know, hey, Reagan. You're you're way older than Monday.
Steve Palmer [:Well, I knew age would come up in this.
Norm Murdock [:And He flipped.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's such a great line.
Norm Murdock [:One of
Steve Palmer [:the best lines in any debate
Norm Murdock [:much more civil law.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. But but, you know, I I I I don't I don't know how this thing's gonna shake out. I don't have a crystal ball. I I fear that, that Kamala's gonna win, and, I cannot I I I am hopeful, however, that at least Congress gets split up, or or we can take or the the Republicans will take the other half of it. I I just, that's the only bulwark against this. You know, I think we're in trouble for a couple of years if that doesn't happen.
Brett Johnson [:And then the Republicans need to get their stuff together to make sure that they can counterbalance. They can counterbalance. What the what the what the Oval Office does and vice versa to if Trump would win. You know, just that counterbalance was just slow.
Steve Palmer [:The balance of hours just slow to mess. And and and I think All all
Norm Murdock [:the all the big brain consultants are saying, Trump should just stick to 3 things, BCE, border, crime, economy.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. But but those are the 3 that every economic class gives a crap about.
Steve Palmer [:That's
Brett Johnson [:right. Color of skin doesn't matter. Those are the 3 things. 2 of 3 or at least 3 things care about.
Norm Murdock [:What Trump needs to quit talking about, right, is the 2020 election.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Shut up about
Brett Johnson [:that. Yes.
Norm Murdock [:He he needs to quit talking about that even even if it was stolen.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It
Norm Murdock [:the like, nobody cares. It's it's over.
Steve Palmer [:It's done. Quit talking about whether Kamala's black, white, or Indian, or Exactly. Or, Jamaican. It doesn't make a Philippines difference.
Brett Johnson [:It doesn't push anything.
Steve Palmer [:Quit talking about anything other than her stupid policies in a radical shift.
Norm Murdock [:And he needs to quit. I agree. And he needs to also quit talking about his court cases.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Quit. Quit. Quit. Quit.
Norm Murdock [:Just listen. Listen. It is unfair, but you gotta talk about things that are affecting the American people, not the things that affect you.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Yep. Bingo. Yep. Turn the turn the turn it around.
Steve Palmer [:That's been Trump's Achilles' heel from the outset, though. Right? I mean, that that is his Achilles' heel.
Brett Johnson [:It's all about me, me, me. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Now Vance
Norm Murdock [:guys catch did you catch his rally in, in Georgia?
Steve Palmer [:Clips of it. I caught a couple clips of it.
Norm Murdock [:He went Steve, Brett, he went on and on for at least, I would say, 20 minutes about his fellow Republican, Brian Kemp, and that, secretary of state then. He went on and on about he's talking to the crowd. This is his rally, and he says, you have an awful governor in this state. And he went on and on about the 2020 election and how Brian
Steve Palmer [:That's why we have Raphael Warnock in office right now.
Norm Murdock [:That's exactly right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right.
Norm Murdock [:You know
Steve Palmer [:Just dumb politics.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's like, dude, you need Brian Kemp. You need to build a amend the fence. Well, that'll never happen now.
Steve Palmer [:But You need Georgia voter. I mean, this is so
Norm Murdock [:It's so dumb.
Steve Palmer [:It it it is. Yeah. Well, but that's his that's his Achilles heel. This is why he can't he's not gonna expand his base. I I don't think he can.
Brett Johnson [:I don't think so.
Steve Palmer [:And I think, Comma Chameleon is either gonna take that base or the people will stay home and or skip the top of the ticket. I I don't know. But
Norm Murdock [:I would agree with you. There there is a strong possibility that a lot of people will not vote, you know, because they just they're not interested in her.
Steve Palmer [:And they don't wanna put Trump there. So
Norm Murdock [:And yeah. So they just won't participate. I could see that happening.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yep. But, yeah. It's like we're we're in dangerous territory here, and it's it's there for the taking.
Norm Murdock [:And to to your point, Steve, we've been down this road where and I think Brett brought this up, where people campaign in the middle when they're really extremists. Yeah. And and and we got deceived by Obama. You know, he he pretended I'm gonna be a healer.
Steve Palmer [:No red states. No blue states. He Going to United States.
Norm Murdock [:But, you know, like, race relations took a nosedive under the very guy who coulda healed our country
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And and really and really advanced race relations, curiously and, like, I didn't vote for Obama, but the night that he won, I actually got a little teared up because I saw the celebrations in Lincoln Park up in Chicago, and I thought, you know what?
Steve Palmer [:This might be good.
Norm Murdock [:Maybe the silver lining on this guy coming into office will be that as as half black and half white, that he will say, I am the personal embodiment of togetherness and how we could come together and be together and love each other.
Steve Palmer [:Nope. And He didn't do it. And Quite the opposite.
Norm Murdock [:And he did the opposite.
Brett Johnson [:Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Hopefully. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Well and and to your point of people kind of tapping out on voting, if you don't you don't get to say, you don't get to bitch and moan about anything.
Steve Palmer [:If you don't vote
Brett Johnson [:If you don't vote, you don't you don't get you don't get them. You don't get a voice at the table if you don't vote. Uh-huh. You know, you just you don't. I I I just I and I know we can't check the the die on the finger if you voted or not, but it's like, you need to shut up for the next 4 years then. You have no place
Steve Palmer [:to to
Norm Murdock [:to Oh, Brett. Actually, it is a public record about whether or not you voted.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's true. Whether you voted, but not but you could I think you can skip the top of the you can skip because I do. There there there are certain elections I skip because I don't know enough to to Yeah. You know? Sure. Right. But I I try to educate myself. When I see two names for some position that I don't know about or care about, I'm like, I I'm not educated enough to to offer my opinion on this.
Norm Murdock [:So you know you know, for example, Eric Trump's wife, Laura Trump, is, like, one of the top people in the RNC now. I don't know.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:She she's she's like a bigwig. And one of their one of their, one of their strategies is to encourage Republicans or or or Blue Dog Democrats. Encourage Trump voters to vote early as possible. And the reason the reason why, to Brett's point, the reason why is because they can detect whether or not you voted, and then they won't send you any more mailers. They won't they you know, like, your your vote has been banked, and they can target their advertising dollars to people who haven't voted yet.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, look. I I I think I think the Republicans are in trouble here, at least at the top of the ticket. I think that, she's gonna ride this wave, and unless something happens like, look, there's it's not a I don't think it's a difficult path for Trump. But what you just described at the Georgia rally is the it could not be more opposite of what he needs to be doing. Exactly. It could not be more opposite of what he needs to be doing. You know, it's like
Norm Murdock [:lack of lack of discipline.
Steve Palmer [:It just is, he can't he cannot help himself.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. That's true.
Steve Palmer [:And and it's,
Norm Murdock [:I think there's traces, Steve. I listened to that rally pretty carefully, and I think there's a little trace of some traces of, I don't wanna call it senility, but he, like, he he circles back to to those themes 2 or 3 times in the same speech. Yeah. And you're and you're like, dude, you already talked about this.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm. No. He's not a great public speaker. No. It it's it's
Norm Murdock [:Not really.
Steve Palmer [:No. It's not Whether
Brett Johnson [:it's senility or just that a good public speaker or
Steve Palmer [:It's both. I think it's pretty much bigger.
Brett Johnson [:A little bit of both. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I don't know if you've seen that. I have no idea, but I know there's I know both are there and, you know, the the r and c speech was way too long and and Oh my god. Too much and boring and, you know, but but that's Trump. That's what that's what he is. He's always been that way. That's right. Alright. Well, look.
Norm Murdock [:What was it? An hour and 45 minutes or something?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Insane. It
Norm Murdock [:was unbelievable. Insane.
Steve Palmer [:Insane. Well, look, guys, it's probably time to wrap her up. It has been, another riveting episode of Common Sense Ohio, and we've got more to come next week, at at Common Sense Ohio. And if you got a topic you want us to cover, not that there aren't plenty of them out there for us to hit, but commonsenseohioshow.com. Like it, share it, be part of it by engaging with questions, comments, concerns. And in the meantime, we're gonna continue to do what we do, and that is bring you topics, send out the social media stuff, and make sure that, the common sense is spread throughout the land, so should we say. So until next week, we are coming at you right from the middle here from Studio C with commonsenseohioshow.com.
