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In this episode...

Managing Stress Without Losing Calling With Pat Welsh

https://faithfulontheclock.com/managing-stress-without-losing-calling-with-pat-welsh

In Episode 149 of Faithful on the Clock, speaker and law enforcement officer Pat Welsh offers tips and insights for how to deal with stress even in the most difficult jobs.

Timestamps:

[00:04] - Intro

[00:38] - Pat’s background and experience

[02:39] - Pat’s integration of faith and work

[04:47] - Feeling obligated toward law enforcement and meeting unique purpose

[06:55] - Reconciling being in a stressful job or situation with the story of Job

[17:34] - Why our identity is not what we do; our “life sentence”

[23:42] - How Pat’s job influenced his marriage; advice for managing how your work influences the stress others experience

[28:55] - Delegating and facing the fears underneath not doing everything yourself

[42:51] - How the business world trains us to be on edge; addressing work culture to address stress

[51:53] - Practical recommendations for managing stress as we adjust work culture to be healthier

[01:01:32] - How to get in touch with Pat/Prayer

[01:03:50] - Outro/What’s coming up next

Key takeaways:

• Stress has biblical precedent, and it is not evidence that God is absent. As the stories of Job and Jesus in the garden show, God often sits with us even in our most stressful hour. God does not create our suffering to test us, but can use it to rebuke the Devil and strengthen our faith.
• Calling often includes high stakes environments. In this sense, leadership is less about position and more about influence and impact.
• Faith calls believers to live out the unique purpose God created them for. This might mean we carry a significant stress load, but rejecting being a “photocopy” increases our impact.
• Stress around our calling or work often comes from trying to control what belongs to God. If we accept His sovereignty, the stress we might encounter is often reduced.
• Our work doesn’t just influence our own stress. It can influence the stress of those we care about. We can be loving to others by staying aware of this influence and working intentionally to examine our habits and goals.
• We can use practical strategies to manage stress even as we intentionally work to improve work environments that lead to anxiety.

• Pat Welsh on LinkedIn
• Warrior Servant Leadership Podcast

CTAs:

• Reflect about your work tasks and obligations. Identify what produces the most stress and select 1-3 strategies you can proactively use to regulate yourself.
• Have a candid discussion with your loved ones about how your work might be causing them stress and what you can all do to minimize the damage.

What’s coming up next:

Stress can lead us into unhealthy coping mechanism and poor choices. But in Episode 150 of Faithful on the Clock, Laurette Willis shows us how to transform our mistakes into a new foundation for our work.

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Hello, again, everybody. Whether you’re a returning listener or are joining us for the first time, thanks for listening to Faithful on the Clock, the Christian podcast where all the tissues get pulled out of the box to get your faith and work aligned. Today, I’m recognizing April as National Stress Awareness Month. We all know we can’t get rid of stress completely, but my guest Pat Welsh is gonna give us some advice on how to manage stress well so we can really focus and be effective in what God wants us to do. Let’s get started.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, hello, listeners. I'm Wanda Thibodeaux, and today on Faithful on the Clock, I'm welcoming Patrick Welsh. Pat is an author, national speaker, and leadership trainer with more than four decades in law enforcement, the courtroom, and the classroom. He's also an international podcaster as the host of the Warrior Servant Leader podcast. We've got him here today essentially as our resident expert in stress management, because so much of his career has been in high stakes situations, and I think we all could use a little of — advice about how to minimize the work stress that we've got. Patrick, thanks for being here. I appreciate you taking time for the podcast.

[Welsh]

Well, thank you for the invite.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, I really just want to start give you a chance to kind of introduce yourself and let our listeners know who you are.

[Welsh]

Reader's Digest version. I was born in Dublin, Ireland. When I was three days old, my birth mother, who was a widow at the time, placed me in an orphanage, and I was adopted to the United States about 16 months later. And grew up Irish, Catholic, and never — I've never been to public school. I went all the way through law school, so I'm deeply steeped in the Catholic traditions and became a lawyer. Hated practicing law. I became a lawyer because everybody told me I was going to be a good lawyer. So, I thought, well, that's what I'm supposed to do, when in reality, my vocation, my calling, since I think I was like, nine years old, is to be in law enforcement. So, when I was 28 years old, I transitioned from practicing law full time to being a full time cop. I kept my law license active, did some — it's still active in Ohio. And spent 26 years as a police officer in Dayton, Ohio.

[Thibodeaux]

So I understand, you know, as you've been doing this work, a lot of it has centered around, you know, you've gotten into a lot of leadership work. So, how has your background kind of integrated those — like, informed your integration of those two things with your faith and your work and your leadership?

[Welsh]

Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm big on defining terms, so everybody knows where I'm coming from, because their definition of leadership may be different than mine.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

So, and in — the other thing is, it's not just about leadership. That's why my podcasts and couple books I've written and the teaching I do is — incorporates a warrior servant leader mindset. It's three parts of — of it's kind of like the trinity of you — if you will, of impacting the lives of other people. And to me, that's what leadership is. Leadership, it's really that simple. And I was trained by John Maxwell years ago, and his definition is the one that I've adopted is, leadership is influence. Nothing more, nothing less. And I've added the word impact, because you may not always know the outcome, or I call him Paul Harvey moments of how you influence or impacted somebody's life, and whether it was, you know, good, bad, or ugly. So, that — how my faith has impacted that warrior servant leader mindset is, I think it's foundational that — it's kind of like, you know, Paul, that you can't help but you can't stop your faith. You know, when he was in prison and he's ordered, he — I think he and Timothy were ordered to quit preaching. He's like, I can't not do that. And so, that's how it's impacted my life. And I mean, we'll get into it, but that's kind of the bigger picture.

[Thibodeaux]

Okay, well, I kind of like that you said that, like you can't not do it, because that has defined so much of what I do myself, and I — one of the ways that I describe knowing what you're supposed to do is that you feel that obligation to it. And I'm kind of wondering now, you know, like, were you feeling that, like, when you transitioned into law enforcement?

[Welsh]

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, I definitely can agree with that, especially, you know, like with social media and stuff like, we have our templates and we have our copy paste that we want to do, and this is how you do a post and how you do a pitch deck and all that, and like, so it's, I think it's very hard for us to be ourselves and to be who God wants us to be, and that's very challenging, I think, to find our purpose that we have, and to lead in the way that God has actually called us to do. One thing that strikes me about your story, too, and we're talking about purpose, is, I think sometimes you know, and it's a great calling. Don't — do not get me wrong, but I think there are a lot of people who would be listening to your story, maybe, or what you do and say, “How in the world can it be God's purpose to put me into a job where I am stressed out all the time?”

[Welsh]

[Thibodeaux]

Yes.

[Welsh]

And so, when you're — when you're under that stress, when you're — you feel like you're in crisis or you're walking through, you know, that valley of death kind of experience is, put on that mind of Jeremiah. Put on that mind of Job. But then, even more so, put on the mind of Christ and remember the passion in the garden. And even Christ, you know, was sweating blood.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Welsh]

You know, nothing more critical, and coming your way, than, okay, I'm going to get crucified. But His response was — well, the first thing He did say was, you know, if — if this chalice can pass me, then you know, I'm up for that, but Your will be done, not mine.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

And so that's — that's how I try to look at, when you're — whether it's in your personal life or your professional life, your family life, your faith life, when you're — when you're facing those crises, is lean on the stories and the scriptures of people that have been there through something even more critical than you're going through. And how did they respond?

[Thibodeaux]

I love that you brought up Job, because I know so many people, you know, they — they try and use that and — not that it can't be interpreted this way, but they do take the stance of, well, what is God trying to teach me? That it did come from God. And if you really read that story, God allowed it, you know, but all of the — the pain actually came from the Devil. And the only reason, in my view — this is my interpretation of Job — the only reason that God allowed that is, like, He knew who Job was. He knew Job was faithful, and Job knew who God was. The only one that really needed to learn something was the Devil, and the Devil needed to learn that Job was faithful, that it wasn't going to crack no matter how hard that Devil tried. You know, and so, to me, that story is a story about the relationship between Job and God, and how tight that was and God putting the Devil back in his place, to say, “The only way you're going to learn is if I let Job hold the line. I'm going to just show you, and you can learn for yourself. And then you go back the way that you came.” And we see after Job, you know, he — he got all of what he had back, and then some, you know, He doubled it. So, that's definitely encouraging to the — to me, because when we go through these struggles, it's not necessarily, oh, God is doing this to me. You know, and we can say, God is still with me, even through this. He still cares, you know? Because otherwise we kind of wonder, and then we, we're like, we get lost because we don't know what God's plan is, right? And we start questioning everything. And then your mention of Jesus being stressed out, too. I think — I think that is one of the best things that anybody has brought up. Because I think sometimes we have this, as Christians, this idea of Jesus has just always been calm and just like la, connected to God, and always just easy, right? And exactly what you said in the garden, like, that was not the case at all. And I have thought so much about how stressed out was he, really, about having to carry the weight of every single person He was trying to save. And like, what that felt like, to know what he had to do, what was coming, like that — you want to talk about stress —

[Welsh]

And it — as long as we're going to talk — share in this vein is, you hear the story of Job, and one of the final things that — conclusions Job came to is, God is God and I am not.

[Thibodeaux]

Yep.

[Welsh]

And that was the foundational truth for him. For his faith and his trust. God is God, and I am not. Now, take Christ in the temptation, in the 40 days in the desert. God didn't — God the Father didn't do that to God the Son. He allowed it to — to happen for a lot of the same reasons you're saying, to put — put Satan in his place and — and that God knew the heart and mind and soul of Christ the human, as well as Christ the Son. And then you get to the — the passion in the garden and the Job experience is continuing. Now, it's kind of continuation of — of, you know, the desert experience and the temptation. But the difference this time is, God is God and Christ is God the Son.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

And in that, yes, He's still asking the Father, “If — if this can pass Me, then fine, but it's Your will, not my will be done. Because Christ had the power to go, “Nah, I ain’t doing this.”

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

I will — going to take it that — going to take a different path. Or — or when the — when the one criminal goes, “Hey, if you're really the Christ, you know, save yourself and save us” —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

— kind of deal. Well, He could, but it wasn't His will to be done. It was God's.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

So, and so those — those stories, aren't just stories. They're truths that when we're going through crisis, understand it's not God doing it to you. And I understand people go, Well, maybe he's trying to teach me a lesson. No, He's not, in my opinion, because we already know — what is the one and only lesson that that we need to know, understand, and believe? And that is love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul, and all your strength. That — that — that is our lesson to learn and to live. As we then go through life, the challenges that we face are natural consequences or events of our behavior, mankind's behavior, you know, the fall and all those theological things, but God is not capable of harming us to prove a point or to make us learn a lesson. That's — in the end, yes, we're going to be judged at the end. And that's ultimately where, you know, we have the final, if you want to call it come to Jesus moment —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

And — and then — and then there's another thing that I think people really need to understand is, and I did a podcast with the guy on this, and it was — the whole thing was on the topic of forgiveness. And and we actually ended up calling the — the episode, Let Judas Walk. There are times in our lives where people are going to be viciously evil and harmful and hurtful to us, and we have to let Judas walk. Christ knew what Judas was going to do, but he still let him go. And because it's God's will, and we don't know the mind of God in the human — in our human capacity. So, I think it gets real, philosophical and theological at times, but the reality is, we're not alone. God does love us. God keeps His promises, and when we face struggles and there's — and God never promised us, “Hey, you know, you know, you become a follower of Christ, and it's all gonna be roses and happy times and all that. No, it's not.

[Thibodeaux]

He said the opposite.

[Welsh]

Yeah. We’'re gonna — we're gonna suffer. Pick up your cross and follow me.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, really, what you're talking about is like the character of God and Who He is, like, His identity, you know, and we are supposed to be made in His image. And so, like, we have to understand Him to understand what our identity is. But one of the things that you had said in your preinterview too, is like you had mentioned about, like, when we're thinking about our identity, like, like, we are not what we do. So, I wonder if you can just talk a little bit about that.

[Welsh]

Yeah, this was my experience in law enforcement. And I would, I would ask young cops this, “If you couldn't be a police officer, what would you do?” And if their response was, “I don't know,” then I know they define who they are by what they're doing. And — and I fell into that trap early in my career. Well, not just early in my career, probably for a good portion of my career, because — you and I talked about this. My wife, you know, we had five kids, and I worked midnights 13 out of 26 years. And she — she told me, after I retired, you know, at times she felt like a single parent.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah

[Welsh]

Five kids. Because I wasn't, you know, around or I was doing stupid stuff. Like, we'd be on vacation at the beach with the kids, and I'd be on the cell phone talking to an informant about something, and not being present and being there as a father and a husband for the kids. So, I am far from shining an example of all the truths and aspirations of living a faith-filled life. But the — if you define who you are by what you do, and — and we talked about this. We all have a life sentence, you know, and that's going to be, what's the one sentence people say about you at your funeral, and then what do you want them to say? And if you asked me, early on in my career, when I was a practicing lawyer for four years, if you'd asked me, “Well, what do you want people to say at your funeral?” Excuse me. I honestly would have said, “I hope people would say I was a really good lawyer.” And, and then when I became a cop, you know, it went to, I would hope people would say I was a really good police officer. Well, I'm defining who I am by what I do.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

And — and it took me years to learn that lesson and change that life sentence to that, if you come to my funeral, I hope you say, Pat impacted my life in a positive way, because that's who I am —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

— not — not what I did for a paycheck.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, I know for myself, you know, as a writer, you know, I had somebody ask me one time, well, if you couldn't write, what would you do? Like, I mean, quite frankly, it wasn't in, in the kind of sense, you know, they're basically, you know, trying to get me to see that writing was not the best path, right? And get me to consider other options, which, you know, maybe had some good intent behind it. But, you know, when I was asked that question, if I — if — I would have — I would have drawn a blank, like you had said. But now that's kind of transitioned to, well, I want to bring people joy, and I want to reconnect them with God. Now, writing might be the path that I do for that, you know that I use for that, that might be my calling to do that, but the purpose is to bring people joy. And I tell people that all the time, that that's all of our purpose. We all have the purpose to bring God joy. Our — our calling is just the vocation. It's — it's what we do to do that. But in terms of stress, I think part of the reason we get so stressed out is because, especially now, like, we know that people job hop and like, so like, we constantly have these, like, almost identity crisis happening because we tie our identity so much to what we're doing that we can't get to those deeper values and our faith along with it. So, you know, every couple of years we're like, “Well, who am I?” Right? You have to reevaluate it. Does that make sense?

[Welsh]

Yeah, it does. And there's — there's four things that every human being wants or even craves, but definitely wants and needs. And — and this is just the human existence. We all want to be safe. We all want to have security. We all want to have prosperity, and we all want to have control. And in — then where we get stress is when our self centeredness, our ego, starts demanding, well, I want better safety. I want better security. I want more prosperity. I want more control. And we're focusing on ourselves, as opposed to that God understands you want and need all four of those things, but you're looking in the wrong place to satisfy them, and then that can cause us stress. Now, I — my wife, absolutely hates the saying and — and I agree with her, because it — it — it's a lie. But when people go, “It is what it is.” That — that's surrendering our faith to fate, And that is — that's wrong. We can't — we can't allow ourselves to be so self centered to just go, you know, be Kermit the Frog drinking your little Lipton iced tea with the …on. It's none of my business type deal. It's — there's a difference between the Jordan River and being on the lazy river and — and, you know, when we can get into both rivers, we just have to decide which one we're going to pick.

[Thibodeaux]

For sure. Well, you know, I want to come back to that idea of, you know, because, you know, we use the word lazy, too, like, I know you like doing the work that you, you know, chose to do. Obviously, you know, your wife was a support to you, you know, and I'm sure that she — she's like, “Well, I'm not lazy. I'm raising five kids.” Right? And she had her own stress because of that. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you, because of our preinterview, was, if you could talk to a little bit about how our job occupations, and the — the work that we choose, and maybe — maybe it is our calling, like, that is what God wants us to do, but it does influence the people around us, and I don't think that we should be blind to the stress that evolves in them because of our choice and the calling that God, like — I just want you to maybe speak to that a little bit. Like, what — what happened between you and your wife, and maybe, how did you resolve that? What could you recommend for people who are in that same situation?

[Welsh]

Yeah. Well, so, I had the high stress job of being a cop. She owned her own accounting company. And basically for me and — and five kids from January to June, almost definitely April 15. But it usually went further because she had corporate clients, as well as — you talk about stress. She was working 80 hours a week, tax season and all — and all that kind of stuff, and trying to maintain a home and raising five kids because I worked — when I first started, I worked seven days off two, or, I'm sorry, six days off two, seven days off two, seven days off four. And I either worked 11 at night to seven in the morning, or eight at night to four in the morning, or seven at night to three in the morning. I was a watch commander. I was working eight at night to eight in the morning, but three days on and then some days off. So, during the daytime, I was sleeping. You know, I get off at eight o'clock in the morning, and usually I had court, and I wasn't getting to bed till noon or one o'clock in the afternoon, then getting getting getting up at, you know, seven or eight, missing dinner, getting up at seven or eight to go in and go back to work at 11 o'clock that night. And but my failure that I own is, I loved what I was doing, and it was a high-drive, you know, career. And no two days were alike, kind of deal, and a lot of adrenaline, because Dayton, Ohio is a very violent city. And I loved what I was doing because I was good at it. And — and I — I was blinded to what effect that was having on my wife and on my kids. So, how did we get through that? Through the grace of God, my wife's patience, that, I mean, we've been married 45 years. Now, you look at law enforcement, the divorce rate is astronomically high, and — but it was her — her faith. And then we had some of our own Job kind of moments or — or Paul/Saul kind of moments where some significant things happen. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in ‘04, and just, other things that transpired that were a wake up call for me, and my faith life improved, and my, you know, parenting improved, and being a better spouse. And — and then, you get lazy, and a year or two or three years down the road, I transferred from, you know, this assignment to that assignment, and I go full bore into the new assignment and get focused on having all the fun and loving my job and not being there at home. So —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

It was — it was a lot of struggle. But one — one of the things that for us was that really held things together is we did have a firm commitment that we went to church on Sundays. We took — the kids had to go to church. My wife was in women's Bible Study Fellowship. We were in a Bible study fellowship with other couples that were cops. So, we were doing a lot of things that were holding things together, as opposed to, you know, throwing your hands up and going, it is what it is.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, I like that you bring that up, too, because I think, you know, you say you're kind of doing things to hold it together. But I think one of the biggest things that we see in leadership is that the leader thinks that they need to hold it all together on their own. So, what would you say based on your experience, obviously, in very stressful jobs. What would you say to that, you know, for their leadership?

[Welsh]

Well, one of the first lessons I've learned was the worst advice I ever got from a leadership standpoint. And it was said and reinforced with good intentions, but absolutely does not work. And that is, if you want to — if you want it done right, do it yourself. And so, that's not a leadership quality. That — that's a dictatorship quality. And — but growing up in the ‘60s and ‘70s and ‘80s and all that kind of stuff is, that was the mantra. You know, if you want something done right, do it yourself. And then the other one was, you know, children are to be seen and not heard, type deal. So, that's the mindset and expectation, the culture that I was raised in. So, when you feel like you had to do it all yourself, again, I'll come back and tell you, because we learn, we learn best from stories, from hearing the stories of other people's experiences. And instead of — you're not memorizing rules and regulations, but that we learn from the lives of other people. So, when you feel that burden of the world is — is riding on your back, everything — you have to do everything right. If it — if you don't, it's not going to get done right, remember this. Christ had 12 apostles. He also had 72 disciples.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

He sent them out. He didn't hold their hand. He wasn't leading from the front. He wasn't there criticizing or micromanaging or doing — He gave them some instructions of what to take and what to do if there was rejection and people weren't, you know, accepting of your message. He gave them instructions on how to deal with that and to move on to the next town. So, have that mindset that it's — it's not all about you. You can be in that positional leadership, and yes, you do have responsibilities. And I tell cops this, you know, there is a time to take care of business in critical incidents, life threatening incidents. That's not the time to Kumbaya, let's all — can we all get along together, kind of thing. But the majority of the time you are — as a leader, you are there to influence and impact. And if you want to — if you want to take it — even take it out of Scripture and completely have absolutely nothing to do with your faith life. Just put it in this perspective. And I'm big football fan. A coach calls a play to the to the quarterback, to his helmet, you know, or whatever, and — and calls the play based on, there's guys way up there in the top of the stadium that are — they’re seeing everything from the, literally, from the, you know, from the bleachers looking down. And they're seeing more than you can see, and all that kind of stuff. And they come up with a strategy and a plan, and they call a play, and then the quarterback gets up there and goes, “Wait a minute, this isn't going to work, because I'm seeing something different than what they were seeing when they told me what to do.” But the coach trusts the quarterback to do what they call an audible to change the play. And so the same thing is true in your corporate life, in your personal life, is — you can help guide and influence people and — and you can tell people what to do, but you have to trust them to do the right thing at the right time, the right way, for the right reasons, and if you do that and they fail, that's okay.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

Because we learn from failing and — and so unless it's — I tell cops, unless it's life threatening, it is okay to not get the outcome that you are hoping for, as long as you're doing the right thing at the right time, the right way, and for the right reasons. And — and that helps reduce your stress level in the — in the sense of, you don't have to do it. You, as a leader, don't have to do everything all the time.

[Thibodeaux]

I think something within that, too, you know, that you brought up Jesus and His disciples was like, He knows that we are, as His disciples, like, we are just human. Like, when He sent those people out, He knew they were going to make mistakes. He knew that, like, He had — He had no perception in His head that we were going to be perfect at that. But He sent us out anyway. And I think the reason for that is because he understood the good that we could do, even like, despite being human. Like, He knew we could — we could get a lot right, and that was worth it. You know, I think maybe that's something that we can focus on, too. But I think something — something that I think of when — when you're like, if you want to — if you want it done right, you do it yourself. I have challenged myself with that phrase. And the way I have been challenging myself is I say, if you want something done right, you do it yourself. Rather, than saying that, say, if you, what are you afraid of? Like, if you are wanting it right so bad, what do you think will happen if it's not right, or if you don't do it? And if you look at what you — what the answer is to that question, you'll probably say, well, I'm afraid of X or Y, or maybe, maybe the meeting will go south and I won't get the deal, or whatever it is, so that you identify what the fear behind it actually is. Because it's not necessarily that the person you're going to delegate to is going to fail. It's like — it's something bigger underneath it that you're scared of. Maybe it's like, you're like, I'm scared I'm going to be, like, looking competent and, like, it's an identity thing. Like, but once you identify that, I think then you can start going to God and saying, okay, let's — let's get real. You need to help me with this. And like, like, really making a plan for, how do I address that, you know, and get rid of that, the fears that are underneath, because who doesn't even talk about stress, who doesn't want to get rid of the fear that is causing the stress? Right? If you can get to that, then I think some of that stress goes away. Would you agree?

[Welsh]

Yeah, in hostage negotiations, we call that labeling. Is it really does. It comes down to those four things I told you. You have somebody that is holding somebody hostage, and — and you need to resolve the situation. And that's what you need to do with the person. They're — they're doing what they're doing, whether it's a bank robbery or what — whatever reason they are there for, it's going to fall into one of those four categories. And now, you have safety, security, prosperity, and control. Yeah, and now — now they're trapped. So, you have to identify what is it and then label it — that, what you call fear. And my definition of fear — there's two kinds of fear. Forget everything and run —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

— is one. The other thing is face everything and respond. And so, you can still have those apprehensions, those doubts, that sick feeling in your stomach, and that is physiologically your fear manifesting itself. But psychologically, I know those four things are the category — your fear is because you're lacking in one of those four — or more than one of those four areas, and label it. And so, if I label it is, well, my fear is failure, that I'm not going to have control. It's going to affect my prosperity. If I fail, I'm going to get demoted, I'm going to get fired, I'm not going to get a promotion, I'm not going to get an increase in the paycheck, and I can't make my house payment, and all — you start spinning out of control —

[Thibodeaux]

Oh, yeah.

[Welsh]

— of all these things and that, if you label it — or you say you identify it — well, now we can strategize and create a plan that's going to minimize. It may not eliminate, but you can, you know, you know, in prayer, be still and know that He is God.

[Thibodeaux]

Mm, hmm.

[Welsh]

Literally physical things. We call it box breathing, or combo breathing, you know

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

Four in, hold it, four, and stuff. And physiologically, that is going — that oxygen and that, what — I never understood the word mindfulness, but that — having that mindfulness, I just call it, having that being centered and peaceful —

[Thibodeaux]

Sure.

[Welsh]

— is — that is the beginning. That's the starting point of okay, at least now I've addressed the control issue. I am in control of my breathing, I'm in control of my attitude, and now, I can have a better, clearer mind to try and address whatever it is I need to get done.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, I think some of it comes back to the idea that, that idea, you know, if you want something done right, you do it yourself — I think that's kind of a knee jerk reaction. Like, we don't take the time to get underneath it, and we just trying to say, well, I have to. And just, like, spontaneous moment, right? That we just react. But if you do use those techniques, and you learn to use the labels, and you do all that, like that slowing down, and I think that kind of turns our brains back on. Because, like, in the moment, we're feeling so much, right, especially when we're stressed out about what's going to happen. So, I think — I think that's a big key, is just being willing to get back into our heads a little bit so that we can think through the situation. And I think you'll — you know, as a law enforcement, you can see the value in thinking through things sometimes.

[Welsh]

Yeah. Yeah, time and distance. So, I train cops a lot in interacting with people with disabilities, whether it's intellectual or developmental disability. ADHD, ADD, they're on the autism spectrum, all those kinds of things. And one of the things to understand when it comes to stress is where you are at and how you — how your senses and whatnot, view and see the world and interact with the world. And for people that are on, for example, the autism scale, they're neuro — what we call neurodiverse. And all these things are coming in at one time. Like, when I just said that if I fail, then I'm not going to be able to get a promotion, and I'm not going to get an increase in a paycheck. I can't make my mortgage, I can't pay my kids tuition. And all that stuff starts swirling around like a tornado, and it's just building up physiologically, and you have a meltdown.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah

[Welsh]

And you — or, you know, you lose your — your mind kind of deal, and if you can recognize that and have a plan in place that when you feel that stress coming on, you have a tool that you're going to revert to. And time and distance are good. They're beneficial to you. And controlling the one thing you can control, then that's what you want to do. And for me, it's literally controlling my breathing. Like, I love to public speak. I'm really good at it. I'm still nervous before I go out.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Welsh]

Yeah. And I just did a three hour keynote training session in at a conference in Tennessee last week, and literally go up on stage. And I — I always start out same way. Just take a deep breath and — and relax. And then, because I know I have a plan. I know I have — that — people call it the imposter syndrome, or whatever you want to, you know, label it. It comes down to, it’s ego. And your — your stress, you're causing your own stress because you're you have these expectations or these doubts or whatever, and they're not from God. I call them Gremlins, devils, whatever you want to call them, telling you you're not worthy, you know.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

All that kind of stuff is just take a deep breath and — and — and relax. And that's a good starting point.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, too, I think, you know, it ties back to a lot of intentionality, you know, and being intentional about, you know, your own thoughts. But I think some of this, like, we're talking about, like, slowing down and kind of looking — looking for a bigger perspective. But I wonder if you could talk just a little bit about how the business world kind of trains us to look for the problems and be on edge all the time. Like, we have — we learn to anticipate so that we don't lose the shareholders’ money. And like — like, look for all the things we anticipate what could go wrong. And we're taught that we are good leaders if we do that, because our whole job is to mitigate the problem. So, I wonder if you could talk to that a little bit.

[Welsh]

Yeah. And so, what you've just described is culture. And here's — here's how I handle personally, and this is what I — I teach people that are in command positions, that they — they got the bar, stars and stripes, or whatever. They're in a positional leadership, and that is — part of their job description is to mitigate risk. I mean risk mitigation — you — there's courses in risk mitigation, and I get all that. But here's what I think people need to understand. Everything in your daily life begins up here in your head with the thought. Everything. And a settled way of thinking is what we call an attitude. And growing up, you know, you had your parents would say, I don't like your attitude. Well, they can't read your mind. But what they can do is, they can see your behaviors, and those behaviors are giving them an insight into what's going on up here, what you're thinking. You know, and it can be something silly. I mean, growing up, it's I'm not going to eat peas.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

Yeah. And it's like your mom goes, I don't like your attitude. You know, eat it or go to bed, you know, kind of deal. So, but understand — me not liking peas. And you go, you haven't even tried them yet. I don't like peas. Well, we call that a bad attitude, because what you're thinking up here. And then attitudes are displayed in behaviors. And then repeated behaviors become your habits. And then your habits become your culture. Because culture is this, the expected way of thinking, talking, and acting within a group. That's what culture is. So, in the corporate world, if it is expected and accepted way of thinking, talking, and acting that you as a boss — and by the way, you can be a boss and be a really crappy leader — is that, if you don't get this right, there's going to be negative consequences to you. And so, that drives — that's your attitude. If — and what's expected of me and what is accepted of me is I always have to win. It's kind of Vince Lombardi — one of his famous quotes when he was the head coach of the Green Bay Packers, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. So, that was the culture of coaching under and playing under Vince Lombardi. And he was a very volatile, kind of emotional guy. And so, you didn't want to make the coach mad by losing, even though you know there's going to be a tie or loss, some — either we're going to tie or we're going to lose, there's only three options. So, I would encourage people that are — that are in leadership positions, who have positional authority, they have management by objectives, whatever you want to call it is, yeah, I get that, and yes, you have a job to do. But what is the culture? What are the expectations? What do you expect and accept from others and yourself so that you can achieve. And you can be a dictator and do it because I said so, and, you know, hold the stick over people's head, or you can be a more collaborative type of leader and still meet the objectives in a way that creates a good workplace so people aren't bailing out every two years and going somewhere else. People quit jobs not because of a paycheck. They quit jobs because of the lack of leadership in their organization that — they don't they don't feel respected. That those four needs, and yes, you know, prosperity is one of them. It's not — the biggest number one reason people jump ship is because of management.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

Not because of the paycheck.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, you know when I — when I hear you talk, one thing that strikes me is that, you know, when you kind of gave that comparison, you know, that you can — you can either, basically, you can, you know, hit them with the stick, or you can say, let's collaborate. You will always have the risk to mitigate. But what it feels like as you mitigate can be very different. So, you could — I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, you get to choose whether it's stressful on yourself and you're hitting the people with the stick. What does — what does that create? More stress? Right? Because now people are stressed out because you're hitting them with stick. Or you can say, yes, I have this stress that I have because I've got to watch all these things, but people are helping me, and we're figuring out together. Like, doesn't that feel better? Does that make sense?

[Welsh]

Yeah, it — it goes — it goes to this principle. And it's — it's biblical, and it's also a leadership that they're — they're, like, inseparable in my world. Whatever you're looking for, you will always find more of it. If you're looking for the worst in your people that work for you, they're going to screw up. I just know they're going to screw up. And so that's what you're going to be looking for. You'll find more of their screw ups. But if — the flip side of that is that you equip your people with the skill sets and you — and you hire the right people and put them in the right positions, and what I'm looking for is success. What I'm looking – for you, for our team — I'm looking for innovation. I'm looking for creativity. I will always find more of it. I'm looking for solutions to this problem, and I need your help to find those solutions. And if I'm looking for that, I'm going to find it.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

The flip side, though, is if — Sun Tzu, in The Art of War, talks about this — is, the greatest chance of success for change to come about is for the people that you're asking or telling to change, internalize the value of that change, as opposed to the external imposition of rules and regulations. Do it because I said so. Do it because all these negative consequences. That — that's not a positive value. But if they internalize, okay, I can understand — and that's why you need to touch people here, how they think, internalize, why we have this problem. I'll take law enforcement retention. You know, cops are bailing out left and right. They're going to other agencies. They're retiring. They retire on duty. They're, you know, they'll do the least amount of work. And productivity sucks. And we're losing manpower. But the calls for service are still coming in, and we got 300 cops now, and we need 500. Okay, so, what are we going to do? Well, that — that's where we have to sit down and go, what's the culture here? What — what do we expect and accept people from thinking, talking, and acting? And if you change the culture, the environment, expectations and what's accepted, then you're going — and people internalize that it's good for me, that yeah, I have these opportunities to promote whatever it is. But if you're just always going to be beating people over the head, then you're never going to solve your problems.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. So, let's say people, you know, they've got the right attitude, they're looking for the right things, but they don't know where to start in terms of, like, the practical ways, well, you know, I see people are still stressed. Like, what — what recommendations based on your own experience can you give leaders to say, you know, put this in your toolbox as a practical strategy that people can still use as we adjust to the culture as we need to.

[Welsh]

[Thibodeaux]

Okay.

[Welsh]

And — and I offer it up for a specific purpose, you know, like, you know, people — my wife, one of her things, her quiet time every morning is, she prays for all the people that they're going to take their last breath today.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

You know, kind of deal. So, have — have those habits that set the tone for your day. And I — we talked about the life sentence. I would literally that I — this is what I do. I tell people when I'm training them is, write a letter from — from you, to you, and that's how I close out my training sessions.

[Thibodeaux]

Sure.

[Welsh]

And here's — here's what I want you to do, write down three goals you're going to achieve in the next 90 days. Not try to achieve, or you're going to think about, or you're going to start laying the foundation. Now, give me three goals that you're going to achieve. I don't care what they are. Lose 10 pounds. I had a kid — a kid that was a cop in the Navy. He goes, “Well, you know, I'm running a marathon in two weeks. It's my first marathon. Can I — can I make that one of my goals?” I go, “Well, is your goal to finish — just finish it? Or are you trying to beat a time?” He goes, “I just want to finish it.” Then write that down. But write three goals down that you're going to achieve. Then the next thing I want you to write down is, how are you going to celebrate achieving those goals, even if nobody else knows anything about it? And if it's in your faith life, it's, you know, it's like, you know what, I'm going to start going back to church. I'm going to go church every Sunday. Or it's, you know what, I'm going to start reading, you know, one chapter of the New Testament every morning for 15 minutes. And great. Now, what are you going to do to celebrate that?

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

Because — because we — here's what cops do. They do something extraordinary in the eyes of everybody else, and they get recognized for it, and they go, “I was just doing my job.” No, you weren't. You were — you're doing something exceptional, and you should — getting congratulated, getting attaboys, pat on the back, celebrating wins is physiologically and psychologically very good for you. So, celebrate your wins and your achievements, even if nobody else knows what it is. And I'll tease people. I'll go, yeah, you know, instead of drinking Coors Light, you can drink a real beer. You know, get some Guinness —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

— kind of deal. But celebrate winning and achieving things. And then the third thing is, this — this is the most important thing is, write down your life sentence. What do you want people to say about you at your funeral, and put it on the mirror in your bathroom if you have to. But every morning and every evening, you're going to read that sentence and that sentence, you know, whatever it is. Your — mine is, I want — I want to be people to say that Pat positively impacted and changed my life. Well, I see that and I repeat it. Well, repetition is the mother of all learning kind of deal. The more you repeat something. Then it becomes second nature and a habit. And — and that's how you develop positive habits, by doing the simple little things and doing them consistently, and then start going, okay, like — like, I love public speaking. Guess what? I — what my goal is, in the next 90 days, I hired a guy. We're starting December 2, I want to do a TEDx and — and so — and so, that's my challenge, and that's my goal. And I know I can't do it by myself. I know nothing about TEDx. You know, I can talk all day long, and I can write all day long, but I don't know the strategies and the rules and everything about, you know, TEDx, so I'm asking for help.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Welsh]

So, do — do those kinds of things as a leader, and then the stress that you, that you — you're still going to face challenges, but your stress level, physiologically, psychologically, spiritually, is going to come down because you're not alone in what you're walking through.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, well, I think that's — that's something, too, is that — like, when we approach dealing with stress, like, I think the goal that we always have is to have none of it, right? Like, that would be the ideal. But, you know, I — that's not realistic. We're always going to have some stress. So, I think a more realistic way to look at it is, what it — just, again, realistically — what is the stress level that is appropriate for what I'm doing, and if I'm hovering around that, okay. But you're also, like you said, using those techniques to manage it. You're celebrating the things to get those, you know, to keep you yourself psychologically healthy. I think that's really important. You know, my daughter, she had challenged me. Like, I had just released my devotional. She's like, “Well, mom, how are you going to celebrate it?” Right? And she's like, throwing out these ways, things that we could go do. You know, so, I completely relate to that, you know. But I'll just kind of wrap up by saying, adding to that, one of the biggest things, for me, a good habit is taking time alone. Like, we saw Jesus do that, you know, He withdrew when He needed to, but it wasn't because He didn't care about people. It wasn't because He was, you know, releasing Himself from the responsibility that God gave Him. You know, He wasn't forgetting all the things that were stressing Him out. He did that to reconnect to God so that He could handle the stress.

[Welsh]

Yeah.

[Thibodeaux]

You know. So, I — you know, whether, you know, sometimes — I will be very honest. Like, I've said this before. I will just come home after doing errands, and I'll sit in the car for the extra five minutes, you know, just listening to my podcast or whatever, and I'll just chill, because I know, like, I need that time to just kind of reset. And so, I just would encourage people, like, there's nothing wrong with that. Like, you think, oh, as a leader, look, I have to be there all the time, and again, you know, come back to those fears that we've got, what's going to happen if you're not there all the time? You know, you can think about that, but that's the idea that goes through our head. If I'm not there, what's going to happen, right? I gotta be there. No, you don't. You do not have to be there all the time. You can take the five minutes for yourself. I promise. I promise. So, that — you know, that's — that's my encouragement there, is just to think about those places that you could — you could take that time.

[Welsh]

Yep, absolutely.

[Thibodeaux]

So, just to wrap up here, I always try and pray for our guests, but before I do, would you go ahead and let us know how we can reach you if people want to find out more about you and your work.

[Welsh]

[Thibodeaux]

All right, perfect. Well, I always like to close out, too, by just praying for the guests that I have. So, would you be all right with that if I did that?

[Welsh]

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you.

[Thibodeaux]

Thank you.

So, God, I ask that, as you have clearly protected Pat through many, many years of very stressful, hard, difficult situations, I ask that you continue to protect him, protect his work, because he is teaching people how to lead well, how to handle the stress of the things that they have to do on Your behalf. So, just watch over Him, Lord. Give him the courage that he needs. Maintain him in whatever way that he needs. And just, I — for our listeners, I pray that whatever stressful situations that they are in, that You are with them through that, and You show them how to handle that. Whatever that may be, give them the tools that they need, especially time with You. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.

[Welsh]

Amen. Thank you.

[Thibodeaux]

Amen. Well, thank you. I really appreciate your time. Pat Welsh, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.

[Welsh]

Thank you.

Listeners, after talking with Pat, my hope is that you feel a little more confident about ensuring the stress you have doesn’t balloon out of control. And more importantly, I hope you know that even if you’re in a Job moment of your life when stress is off the charts, God’s with you in it. Next week, we’re looking at stress from a little different angle. I’ll be welcoming guest Laurette Willis to talk about how the mistakes we make in stressful periods can actually be transformed into a positive foundation for our work. If you’re in a place where you need to rise and rebuild from the ashes, you won’t want to miss that conversation. I’ll see you for that in two weeks, and be blessed.