The collision between leadership expectations and spiritual formation is a pressing concern that requires careful examination. As we delve into this episode, Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner elucidates the phenomenon wherein expectations solidify more rapidly than leaders can foster spiritual growth within their communities. This discord often leads to heightened pressure as leaders transition from an emphasis on vision to a focus on the complexities of interpersonal dynamics. Dr. Skinner advocates for a deliberate slowing down, urging leaders to prioritize discernment and shared responsibility over immediacy. Through this discourse, we aim to illuminate the significance of healthy leadership that is anchored in faithful formation, thereby equipping pastors, church planters, and ministry leaders to navigate the arduous terrain of growth and change with clarity and intention.

When-Expecatons-Collide-with-Formation

Dr. Skinner, here are clean, ready-to-publish show notes built directly from your transcript and outline. The tone stays pastoral, clear, and grounded in formation rather than hype.

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SHOW NOTES

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Episode Title

Navigating Leadership in Church Planting

The Dynamics of Expectations and Formation

Episode Summary

In this episode, Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner explores what happens when leadership expectations outpace spiritual formation. Church planters often move from vision-driven energy into people-centered complexity faster than they expect. Expectations harden. Systems form. Pressure increases.

Dr. Skinner names this collision honestly. He invites leaders to slow down, clarify formation, and resist urgency. Healthy leadership requires discernment, shared ownership, and faithfulness over speed. Formation does not remove pressure, but it does reshape how leaders carry it.

This episode speaks directly to pastors, planters, and ministry leaders navigating growth, resistance, and the quiet cost of change.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

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• Expectations harden faster than formation

• Leadership pressure shifts from vision to people

• Discernment requires time, conversation, and restraint

• Systems quickly reinforce what leaders reward

• Apostolic leadership disrupts comfort for faithfulness

• Formation redistributes responsibility and ownership

• Healthy leaders protect margin and resist urgency

• Change creates real grief and loss for some followers

• Naming shifts clearly builds trust and reduces anxiety

• Faithfulness to formation sustains leaders long-term

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CHAPTERS

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00:00 Introduction to Expectations and Formation

03:17 Navigating Leadership Pressures

05:14 The Role of Apostolic Leadership

08:07 Formation vs. Expectations

11:25 The Cost of Leadership Change

14:17 Conclusion and Future Insights

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SOUND BITES

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“Expectations collide with formation.”

“Healthy leaders name formation clearly.”

“Formation invites others to grow up.”

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AUTHORS & LEADERS MENTIONED

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Brian Zahnd

Author and pastor known for emphasizing Christ-centered discipleship, nonviolence, and spiritual formation.

Recommended works:

• Postcards from Babylon

• Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God

Website:

https://brianzahnd.com

Alan Hirsch

Missional thinker and leadership strategist focused on apostolic leadership and movement-based church structures.

Recommended works:

• The Forgotten Ways

• 5Q

• The Permanent Revolution

Website:

https://www.alanhirsch.org

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WHO THIS EPISODE IS FOR

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• Church planters navigating early momentum and growing pains

• Pastors leading change in established systems

• Leaders feeling pressure to move faster than formation allows

• Teams learning how to share responsibility without losing clarity

Shawna Songer Gaines

• Lead pastor at Trevecca Community Church in Nashville, TN, with 15+ years in congregational ministry.

• Author of The Pastor as Midwife: Life-Giving Leadership for the Healing of the Church (2026), a leadership book that uses the metaphor of midwifery to shape pastoral care and transformation.

• Co-author of A Seat at the Table: A Generation Reimagining Its Place in the Church and Kings and Presidents: Politics in the Kingdom of God.

• She has written the Breathe Bible study series and speaks regularly at church and leadership events.

Podcast Interview – Shawna Songer Gaines

• De-Centered Leadership Insights from Pastor as Midwife on Discipleship Conversations — Shawna talks about how midwifery shapes a service-centered leadership model, empowering communities and reshaping expectations for pastors.

Listen here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/De-Centered-Leadership-Insights-from-Pastor-as-Midwife-A-Conversation-with-Dr-Shawna-Songer-Gaines?si=… (available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other major platforms)

All Things Discipleship – with Tim & Shawna Gaines

• Conversations about discipleship, pastoral formation, and everyday faith.

Find it on Apple Podcasts or your podcast app.

Author page and book info:

https://www.ivpress.com/shawna-songer-gaines

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FINAL WORD

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Formation always costs something.

But it gives something better in return.

Leaders who stay faithful to formation do not just build churches.

They shape people who can carry the mission long after the adrenaline fades.

In the context of church planting, Dr. Jeffrey D. Skinner offers an astute examination of the often tumultuous intersection where leadership expectations collide with the nuanced process of spiritual formation. He articulates the notion that as church leaders transition from the initial excitement of a new vision to the intricate realities of community dynamics, there is a palpable shift in the source of leadership pressure. Initially propelled by a visionary impetus, this pressure increasingly emanates from the congregation, whose expectations may solidify faster than the formation of healthy systems can accommodate. Dr. Skinner encourages leaders to embrace a measured approach, advocating for a deliberate pace that prioritizes discernment and shared responsibility. By fostering an environment where formation is prioritized over speed, leaders can mitigate the anxiety that arises from unmet expectations and cultivate a culture of trust and collaboration within their communities. This episode serves as a clarion call for pastors and ministry leaders to remain faithful to their formative journeys, understanding that while the cost of change may evoke grief, the rewards are invaluable in shaping resilient, mission-oriented congregations.

Takeaways:

1. Expectations often solidify at a pace that far exceeds that of formation, creating significant tension.
2. The transition from a vision-driven approach to a people-centered focus can evoke unanticipated pressures.
3. Healthy leadership necessitates a commitment to discernment, requiring time and meaningful dialogue among leaders.
4. Apostolic leadership is characterized by its ability to disrupt comfort and prioritize faithfulness over maintaining the status quo.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Missional Church Planting
2. Leadership Development
3. Dynamic Church Planting International
4. Alan Hirsch

Marcus Aurelius said, what we do in life echoes through eternity.

What is your life echoing through eternity?

Welcome to Echoes Through Eternity with Dr. Jeffrey Skinner.

Our mission is to inspire, engage and encourage leaders from across the globe to plant missional churches and be servant leaders.

So join us and hear the stories of servant leaders reverberating lives as God echoes them through eternity.

Brought to you by Missional Church Planting and Leadership Development in Dynamic Church Church Planning International.

Welcome in that goes through Eternity.

I AM your host, Dr. Jeffrey D. Skinner.

Well, today I want to talk about when expectations collide with formation.

So that was day.

Our most popular episode last year was the first hundred Days.

So I figured I'd follow that up with the next hundred days in January here.

And so now we're going to talk about and understand these are not prescriptive.

In other words, they're not predefined.

This is not exactly how it's going to play out.

You can never plan 100% for everything that's going to happen.

With starting a brand new church, with planting a church, you never plan for every inevitability.

There's a lot that is that you have to discern a lot.

The spirit is leading and you have to be adaptable.

Canoeing the mountains, one of the best books I read on by told Todd Bolsinger on, On a doubtful leadership, which is key in today's environment, in, in any, whether it be, you know, secular or religious sacred, the adaptability is key.

But today we're going to talk about when expectations collide with formation.

You can kind of say day 201 and beyond.

But really it could be day 101, it could be day 701, it could be five years into the church, it could be an existing church.

But the reality is within the context of a church plant, as I talked about with day 101 and the next hundred days, the newness is beginning to wear off, the shinies beginning to wear off.

And so there's a lot of pressure on the leadership and it changes shape.

And so I want to kind of talk about how you're leading and how it's going to be different in the context, especially now that you're, you are well over 90 days into this work here.

You're, you're going on four months and, and, and beyond actually.

So day 200 would actually be five months into the, the church plant.

So almost, almost a year that you, you know, you've been doing this.

And so you know, the, the pressure comes from people.

Early pressure comes from vision.

The later pressure comes from people.

Not because people are bad, but because expectations harden faster than formation.

You have slowed into a rhythm and others still expect speed.

The early days are all about push, even in, you know, even to the point.

I am in the refinery here.

A lot of moving pieces, a lot of fast decisions, a lot of slow decisions.

But, but people get used to activity.

And when, when the routine settles in to a slower rhythm, people can become anxious.

You've moved from adrenaline to discernment.

And discernment takes time.

It takes a lot of conversation.

Believe me, I've been discerning what's going on and what the refinery, the refinery will look like.

I've been discerning that long before I ever got to Nashville.

I've been in conversations with leaders in Nashville.

And so now that you've moved from adrenaline to discernment, others still want output.

This is where many leaders really feel confused.

They are healthier than they were before, but leadership feels heavier.

So in this episode, it's about what happens when expectations collide with formation.

Expectations are set before formation has time to catch up.

The first season trains people how to experience you.

Your urgency, your availability, your responsiveness, your willingness to absorb pressure.

You do not mean to teach that, but systems learn quickly.

Alan Hirsch written several books out there.

One of them is Starfish Spirituality, but he's written a bunch of others.

I encourage you to read some of his stuff.

But he reminds us that systems always default to what is rewarded early on.

What gets rewarded is speed, problem solving and over functioning.

By day 201, you are no longer leading on adrenaline, but the system still expects you to.

That gap creates tension.

Not because you are failing, because the system has not yet been reformed.

You are constantly forming and shaping and reforming and reshaping your leadership, your discipleship.

The systems that are there, especially in these early days, because as I said at the outset, you can't plan for every inevitability and you can't script.

Apostolic leadership disrupts settled expectations.

Hirsch is clear about this.

Apostolic leadership does not exist to keep systems comfortable.

It exists to keep them faithful.

One of the enemies of a church plant is comfort.

Because when people settle into comfort, they settle and the outreach becomes harder.

Volunteers getting volunteers becomes harder because people have settled into a routine.

They become comfortable with the size and the people that are there.

And the kingdom of God is never about comfort.

There's nothing comfortable about a crucified life.

So the systems help keep us faithful.

But they can.

They can also create comfort because a lack of chaos keeps.

Keeps us.

I mean, yeah, lack of chaos will.

Will have us settle.

The chaos will create discomfort there.

We don't want chaos, but we've got to balance that.

There is going to be a certain level of chaos within our church plant.

You need to expect that, that kind of leadership, the apostolic leadership, always unsettles expectations.

Apostolic leaders ask different questions.

Why are we doing this?

Who.

Who is this forming?

What is this producing over time?

Jesus led this way.

The crowds expected constant access and he withdrew.

The disciples expected momentum.

He slowed them down.

The religious leaders expected predictability.

He refused it.

They expected the status quo.

And he said, that's not me.

Jesus did not manage expectations.

He reformed people.

When formation threatens control, here is where things get personal.

When you begin leading from formation, some people feel loss.

Anytime there's change, there's loss.

Listen to John Lear, John Maxwell on this.

He talks extensively about loss when it comes to change.

Not because you're less caring, but because they had learned to depend on your overextension.

Alan Hirsch notes again that many churches unintentionally create dependency cultures where leaders are expected to absorb pressure so the system doesn't have to change.

You can't do that.

Formation breaks that pattern.

It redistributes responsibility.

It exposes unhealthy reliance.

It invites shared ownership.

And not everyone wants that.

This is where leaders feel false guilt, the guilt that comes from misaligned expectations.

Many leaders confuse disappointment with disobedience.

They feel guilty when they stop responding immediately.

Believe you, this is where I live.

If.

If somebody sends me an email or a text, I feel like I got to respond immediate.

I'm trying to learn to protect that margin, which is what you've got to do.

They protect margin.

Good leaders will protect margin.

They'll ask others to lead.

This is extremely important for ownership within a church.

Otherwise, you're going to be a lone ranger and your church will always remain small.

Size is not necessarily the goal, but you don't want to be stagnant, and you've got to keep leadership fresh.

You won't keep a constant flow of people in there.

And leaders and numbers are people.

They represent souls to be saved.

And I don't mean just a soul.

I mean a soul is the entire body.

So leaders have to delegate.

They have to ask others to lead.

They refuse urgency without discernment.

That guilt is not spiritual.

It's systematic.

Richard Rohr would say this is the ego trying to maintain control through approval.

Alan Hirsch Would say this is a system resisting change.

Either way, formation presses you to keep going when people miss the old version of you.

Some people preferred you before you were formed.

They liked the leader who always was available, fixed everything, quickly absorbed conflict, took blame for everything that was wrong, constantly apologized, ran on adrenaline.

When you change, they feel disoriented.

Ran Zahn reminds us that Jesus disappointed people not because he lacked love, but because he refused to meet expectations rooted in power, access or control.

Formation will cost you approval, but it preserves your soul.

Naming the shift without apology Healthy leaders name formation.

Clearly, Alan Hirsch emphasizes that adaptive leadership requires language.

Unspoken change creates anxiety.

Name change creates trust.

So always explain what you're doing.

Simple language is enough.

My leadership pace has changed, so this can last.

We're sharing responsibility more intentionally.

I'm choosing discernment over urgency.

In the early days, I rushed in launching my first church, and I paid the price for that.

I paid the price ministerially and I paid in my ministry, and I paid the price personally.

My family paid the price in those early days because I had urgency or discernment.

You're not defending yourself.

You are shepherding the system through change.

Shawna Saunder Gaines my pastor often speaks about leadership that invites others into maturity rather than keeping them dependent.

Formation invites others to grow up.

What this collision produces over time, if you stay faithful, some expectations will soften.

Some people will step up, some systems will adapt, some relationships will shift.

Again, this is not lost.

This is pruning in reachable.

I write that discipleship requires proximity over time, not constant access.

Alan Hirsch, I think, would agree.

Movement happens when leaders stop being the center and start being catalyst.

Formation turns leaders into catalysts.

A word for the leader.

Feeling the weight.

If leadership feels heavier for you right now, you're not failing.

You're leading at depth.

If expectations feel louder, it does not mean you're wrong.

It means formation is doing its work.

Systems resist change.

Institutions are almost impossible to change.

They're like a battleship.

The smaller you are, the easier it is to change.

The younger you are, the easier it is to change.

That's why they say the first three years are crucial for a church plant.

Because once you get beyond three years, you begin to get settled.

And at 10 years, you're pretty much an established church.

You have been fully absorbed into the institution.

And again, I'm not trying to debase the institution of the church at all.

Systems.

Institutions are important.

They're venerable.

They cement and finalize change and the best practices.

But over time, they can be difficult to change.

Or like a battleship trying to turn it around.

You're not going to do that immediately.

It's not a speedboat.

Souls require formation.

And so stay formed, stay clear, stay faithful.

Day 201 teaches you how to live with resolved tension.

Not fixing it, not rushing it, holding it faithfully.

You are not called to meet every expectation.

You are called to form people who can share the work.

That is how movements last.

That is how leaders endure.

That is how the church remains faithful.

I encourage you to guard your rhythm, name your formation.

Trust God with expectations.

He carries what you cannot.

If this episode has been helpful to you, please share it with a friend, a pastor or colleague.

You know, again, this podcast is growing, but I still need.

I still don't pay for this podcast.

I don't make enough money off of sponsorships or anything like that to carry the cost of this.

And so this is an expense.

And.

And as I move into ministry and planting the refinery, I need resources to help with that as well.

And so I'm hoping that this podcast can become a source of revenue to even assist with some of the sponsorship, some of the expenses of the refinery, because I still have to.

I mean, leaders have to be paid salaries and all that is what I'm trying to figure out as we go forward.

So, bottom line, if you will share this, if you will comment on it, if you are like and subscribe to it, then that gets us towards the goal.

We're expanding kingdom here.

This is not about me.

I'm not trying to be famous, you know, don't want to be famous.

I enjoy personal relationships.

I enjoy getting to know people.

The higher visibility you have, the less you're able to do that.

And so you know that.

So that's why I say I'm not trying to be famous.

I am trying to get this podcast out there and equip as many people as possible.

Thank you again for making this one of the top podcasts in the podcast sphere last year.

And with the help of the Lord, we'll continue that.

In the meantime, I'm asking the same question I always ask, what is God echoing through your life today?

If you enjoyed this, please like and subscribe.