In this episode of 'dare to be more', host Anthony Perl speaks with Daniel Sandral, Head of Junior School, and Natalie Hird, Deputy Head of Junior School for Operations, about preparing young girls for the important milestone of starting Pre-Kindergarten at MLC School.

Daniel emphasises that the early years of learning are absolutely foundational for schooling right through to Year 12 and beyond, explaining how his role ensures every girl in Pre-K has the very best learning environment possible. He describes how MLC School reaches out to families about two years before girls commence, creating opportunities to get to know parents and their daughters whilst discussing what to expect and how to prepare.

Natalie explains the significant advantages of having Pre-Kindergarten on the School campus, particularly for preparing girls for Kindergarten. She describes how girls become familiar with the spaces, routines, teachers, and even the Kindergarten classrooms themselves, making the transition much smoother for both students and parents.

The conversation addresses common parent concerns about preparation, with Daniel reassuring families that it's not a competition and every child is different. He shares practical advice including ensuring girls can toilet themselves, carry their own bags, and open lunchboxes, whilst emphasising that the best preparation is simply doing what parents already do well - taking children to playgrounds, letting them play in sandpits and baths, and most importantly, reading books together.

Natalie discusses the importance of early learning centre experience, noting that girls who have attended childcare or preschool generally find the transition easier, particularly around separation from parents. She emphasises the value of oral language development through everyday activities like cooking, gardening, and shopping, alongside fine motor skill development and social-emotional growth through play dates.

Daniel shares insights about siblings' influence, explaining that whilst girls with older siblings may be more familiar with the School, every child's experience is unique and MLC School's strong orientation program ensures all girls have opportunities to visit and spend time at the School before commencing.

The episode addresses parent preparation, with Natalie emphasising the importance of consistent routines, particularly around drop-off and pick-up, and resisting the urge to return for 'one more goodbye'. She acknowledges that the first day can be more challenging for parents than children.

Daniel discusses supporting families where English is not the first language, explaining how all children come with rich language foundations and how MLC School's unique language program supports girls in becoming proficient English speakers whilst encouraging families to maintain their cultural languages at home.

The conversation concludes with reflections on 'dare to be more' - Natalie describing the joy of watching girls who started in Pre-K now thriving in upper primary, having truly lived the School's philosophy, whilst Daniel shares a touching story about a Pre-K student who challenged him about the lack of a swing in the new playground, demonstrating how even the youngest students embody the spirit of respectfully challenging themselves and others to be more.

About MLC School: MLC School is a leading independent girls' school in Sydney, committed to empowering young women through academic excellence, character development, and innovative education. Our mission is to inspire girls to dare to be more.

Connect With Us:

1. Website: mlcsyd.nsw.edu.au
2. Instagram: @mlcsydney
3. Facebook: @MLCSchoolSydney
4. LinkedIn: MLC School

Co-host: Anthony Perl

Produced by: 'Podcasts Done for You'

Well everyone, and welcome to another episode of Dare to Be More,

2

and today we are going to delve into the

subject of preparing for pre-kindergarten.

3

And I'm delighted to have

Natalie and Daniel with me today.

4

Welcome to you both.

5

Natalie Hirdnat: Thanks.

6

Daniel Sandral: Pleasure to be here.

7

Anthony Perl: Well, look, what we need

to do at the start of the episode is

8

allow you both to introduce yourselves.

9

So, Daniel, Why don't you kick things off.

10

Daniel Sandral: Oh, thank you very much.

11

My name is Daniel Sandal, and I'm the head

of the junior school here at MLC School.

12

Anthony Perl: And Natalie, what about you?

13

Natalie Hirdnat: Yep.

14

Natalie Herd and I have been a deputy in

the junior school at MLC School Force.

15

Around six or so years, and currently the

deputy op operations in the junior school.

16

Anthony Perl: Fantastic.

17

Well.

18

Very important role because it's

kind of the formation, isn't it?

19

It's where it all begins in

the pre-kindergarten area.

20

So I, I guess, just to kick things

off, Daniel, why don't you just

21

tell me a little bit more about what

your role is in that side of things?

22

, Daniel Sandral: Look, thank you.

23

And I think you said it really

well where it all kicks off.

24

I think before I even

say where my role is.

25

I think it's just pivotal to know that.

26

The early years of learning, and

particularly those very early

27

developmental stages, are absolutely

foundational for, the, for schooling

28

right up to year 12 and beyond.

29

So my role as head is really to

ensure that every girl in our

30

pre-kindergarten, as we call it

here at MLC School, pre-K , has the

31

very, very best learning environment

possible and so obvious I work with.

32

The staff, the parents, and the girls, to

ensure that very special place of early

33

learning is the most vibrant, exciting,

challenging, and rewarding as possible.

34

Anthony Perl: I would imagine that that

is, , a big thing, first of all to have

35

the staff on site, isn't it, Natalie?

36

I mean, for them to understand fully

what their role is because it's a

37

really, difficult time for many parents.

38

'cause they're letting go of young kids.

39

Natalie Hirdnat: Yes, absolutely.

40

Having a pre-kindergarten on

site has fantastic advantages

41

for everybody involved.

42

, Most importantly, of course for the girls.

43

So, while pre-K is a really important

year in and of itself, there's a lot of

44

development that happens in that year.

45

Part of that year, of course, is preparing

them for kindergarten and making that

46

transition a little bit smoother too.

47

So having it on site makes

it much easier for the girls.

48

They, are already familiar with , the

school itself, with the spaces, , even

49

the kindergarten teachers, , the areas

where they're gonna play and learn,,

50

ahead of time and some of the routines and

structures that, that will be expected.

51

And for parents, it's obviously, makes

that transition much smoother too.

52

So, yeah, very useful.

53

Anthony Perl: And I, I gather

it, it all begins before, you

54

know, that's the thing, isn't it?

55

It's , particularly kids that young.

56

to get them ready to go to the

pre-kindergarten in of itself

57

is something to be aware of.

58

So when does that process begin?

59

And what does that look like?

60

Daniel Sandral: look, . Parents,

, obviously reach out to us and inquire

61

about our pre-K learning very early.

62

For some of them, they

might even be newborns.

63

, And.

64

Parents, obviously are looking for

what is the right fit for their

65

girl, even at that very early stage.

66

And so part the process is obviously

making, , an enrollment form and

67

putting that towards the school.

68

But in terms of actual contact, we

reach out to those families about two

69

years before they're due to commence.

70

And that's where we get to know, , the

parents and importantly their little girl.

71

And we sit down with them and

we have those conversations

72

about, . What to expect in pre-K

and what to prepare, for pre-K.

73

So it starts as early as two years ahead.

74

Anthony Perl: I, I mean it.

75

So they're quite young

76

Daniel Sandral: Hmm.

77

Anthony Perl: happening, and so I

imagine it's quite hard for them

78

parents to even grasp that properly

and, they might have enrolled, but

79

it's another thing to be going.

80

Imagining this child is probably

still, , pretty much a baby.

81

, And then thinking, oh my goodness,

two years away, and they're doing,

82

pre-K , is that, do you know, do

you find those obstacles when you

83

reach out , of trying to take people

from that, , into that process?

84

Daniel Sandral: Look, we do, , in a

sense that they've got lots of questions,

85

but , it's really valuable to have

that, to meet 'em at that time because.

86

They've got some decisions to make and for

some families they have enrolled their,

87

, little girl into an early learning center.

88

And for others they haven't at that stage.

89

And there are questions around, , what

type of program would be best when

90

they come to MLC school because

we offer a five day program.

91

We , offer a three day program, and.

92

Like what you insinuated.

93

They're also, , wanting to know from

us, , what do I do to prepare and how can

94

I help my daughter get ready for pre-K?

95

So that initial meeting in advance,

, it's very valuable and fruitful.

96

Anthony Perl: Is there a sense of feeling

that they need to achieve certain goals

97

before they get into the pre-kindergarten

or , is, just getting there is enough

98

and everything happens from there.

99

Daniel Sandral: Look,

every family's different.

100

Every child's different.

101

And, but what I would say is

that it's not a competition.

102

It's about just.

103

Being there for your daughter and

supporting her as she transitions

104

through different milestones.

105

, And people do often ask us, look, what can

I do to prepare my daughter, , for pre-K?

106

And look, there are certain,

, physiological things that we do

107

require , of the girls when they come

to join us, for example, are they able

108

to toilet themselves, for example?

109

We encourage them to be

able to carry their own bag.

110

I mean, where three, they may not be

able to do that, but certainly when

111

they're coming towards us, we're

hoping they're doing those sorts of.

112

Little tasks that they can do.

113

, Even opening up their own lunchbox

can be a little bit challenge.

114

So there's conversations that we may not

have at interview but have later on when

115

we have a parent information center.

116

They're the sorts of

things we're talking about.

117

What sort of lunchbox,

those sorts of things.

118

But the advice I give to parents

when they ask about how do I prepare?

119

I say, do all the things that you're

doing well as a parent already.

120

. Taking them out to the

playground and let them play.

121

Let them climb.

122

Let them play in the sandpit, let them

play in the bath, , with cups, et cetera.

123

And most importantly,

, read books to them.

124

Join your local library.

125

There are beautiful picture

books that they could borrow.

126

Read to them and talk to 'em about

the stories that they've read.

127

Anthony Perl: And Natalie, I imagine that.

128

Education, , is something that parents

may feel a little bit like, oh, what,

129

you know, how much does my kid need to

be, at what level do they need to be

130

at before they even start this process?

131

, Is that a question that

you get fairly regularly?

132

And, and how do you respond?

133

Natalie Hirdnat: Yeah, I think,

particularly, I guess maybe for an eldest

134

child, for first time parents, they can be

a bit, anxious about how much they should

135

or shouldn't be preparing their girls and.

136

know, as Daniel said before, it's

about meeting them where they're at.

137

, Every child is different and, we're pretty

adept , at, , working that out pretty

138

early on and being able to cater for

the girls wherever they come to us at.

139

You know, Daniel mentioned reading.

140

I think that love of literature

, and reading is really important.

141

And, to be doing lots of that

is fantastic Preparation.

142

Lots and lots of oral language

development in terms of

143

talking to, to, you know, your.

144

Kids about whatever you are doing and if

that's cooking a meal or if that's doing

145

some gardening, or if that's shopping, or

if that's making a list or so many ways

146

you can just do all of that incidental

kind of learning to be helping them out.

147

But, beyond the early literacy

and numeracy, find motor skill

148

development is really important.

149

And social and emotional

development's important.

150

Lots of play date.

151

So where they get to, take turns

and, , they might have to wait.

152

They might win, they might lose.

153

They might be, you know, on the team they

want and their game might not get picked.

154

And all of those, , things that they

develop, learning behaviors, a really

155

helpful way to support from home.

156

, Anthony Perl: And what about

that difference, you know,

157

between whether someone's.

158

Gone to an early learning center

before versus someone who's not had

159

that opportunity, , and therefore

perhaps not been left without mom or

160

dad, , for any extended period of time.

161

, How important is it to, , advise

them on what to do to get

162

prepared from that point of view?

163

, Natalie Hirdnat: Look, from our

perspective, it's always much easier

164

for those girls who have attended,

, another educational setting, some

165

kind of childcare or preschool.,

166

There, there's no doubt about that,

that an even, a short burst before

167

joining a pre-kindergarten program

is so beneficial for the girls.

168

, They have had some experiences.

169

You say leaving mom and dad for.

170

know, periods of time.

171

, Perhaps they've been through that

separation anxiety and that can really

172

help if they're sort of through that phase

when they get to us, , for the most part.

173

, Anthony Perl: I was gonna ask as

well, Daniel, , I imagine there's a

174

big difference between kids who have.

175

siblings that have already been through

the process and those that don't, and the.

176

The obvious thing is to say, , they're

more informed as they come through.

177

But I imagine there's also a little

bit of, , you know, parents tend

178

to get a little bit more liberal

as they have more children.

179

I certainly know the case that, , the

first child that you have, the minute

180

they're sick, you're racing off to

the hospital and by the time , you're

181

at the second, or if you have more

children, , yeah, it'll be fine.

182

So how does that play out

in terms of, kids being

183

prepared , for , pre-kindergarten.

184

Daniel Sandral: Oh, it's a great question.

185

And, w when we do bring on a new cohort

of parents and children, we often get

186

some of the more experienced parents,

for a better word, to talk to the new

187

parents, , about their experiences

of their child entering pre-K.

188

And look certainly for those that

may have, an older sibling that's

189

gone to school, and that's really

not all, not not all of our students.

190

, A lot of our girls, , it's, they may

be an only child, or they may be the

191

elders, but for those that have got

older siblings, they've often visited the

192

school, , and they've seen the school.

193

So , they might be a little bit

more familiar with the school.

194

So in terms of adjusting , and being here.

195

For many of them, yes,, it is easier.

196

Having said that, we have a really

strong orientation program, so for

197

all our girls, we make sure that they

have those opportunities that, , when

198

they commence that they're here at

the school and they're spent some

199

time with their parents at the school.

200

And then there's, that will

be followed by another session

201

when here without their parents.

202

, But as we mentioned before,

every child's different.

203

And, for some children who do have

older siblings, but still come.

204

Two pre-K, maybe that separation

is a little bit of a challenging

205

experience for them at first.

206

, That can still happen and that's okay.

207

That's normal.

208

, I certainly remember missing my mum

when I first started, , kindergarten.

209

I've still got vivid memories of that

and I have siblings, but, , but having

210

said that, we cater for that really well.

211

. We know the developmental stages and

what's to be expected of children

212

and parents really know their

particular daughter , really well.

213

And so we work together and , we know,

, if there's a bit of a challenge, , what's

214

normal and what's expected and that

there's something else we need to work on,

215

, we'll work with the families to do that.

216

Anthony Perl: I guess one thing that

we haven't talked about here is.

217

The parents, , because , that's a

large part of it, isn't it, Natalie?

218

I mean, the kids to some degree.

219

You know, they're young.

220

They don't know too much about what's

going to be in front of them, and they

221

certainly don't have an understanding

of how long they're going to be in

222

the school system, but parents do.

223

So how do you prepare the parents?

224

Natalie Hirdnat: Yeah.

225

, I think that particularly, if it is your

first one to go off, it can be a, , a

226

really anxious kind of period of time,

and we get that it's huge to hand over

227

your child to somebody else for the,

for a period of time, a particularly if

228

that hasn't happened a lot before, so,

it's really important for the parents

229

to remember that kids can feed off that.

230

So, to keep things, calm and,

and low key in some respects.

231

, You want them to be excited to

come, but not worried to come.

232

, And I think really important that you

have consistent routines, particularly I

233

think around the drop off and the pickup

, you know, . That your daughter is really

234

familiar with what that goodbye routine

is going to look like, and that you're

235

really consistent about it, and really

resist that urge, I guess, to run back

236

in and do one more final goodbye because

we all know they settle in a few minutes.

237

So, , the, the faster you get that routine

in place and your daughter knows what

238

to expect, the better it'll be for her.

239

Anthony Perl: Yeah, I imagine you see

lots of parents, you know, fighting,

240

wanting to come back in, , in the

gates , and have one more opportunity.

241

I mean, that first day , is in many

respects a bigger day for the parent than

242

it is for the child, isn't it, Daniel?

243

Natalie Hirdnat: it is.

244

Yeah.

245

Yeah, you go.

246

It's a tough moment to do that.

247

Walk away.

248

We understand that.

249

Anthony Perl: One other area that I

wanted to touch on particularly is,

250

parents that may be new to Australia,

or , English may be, a second language

251

or even a third language for them.

252

culturally getting used to that.

253

How do you . Help them prepare in

that situation, both the parents and

254

the child, because I, I gather you

have some children that may come into

255

pre-kindergarten and may not have English.

256

Daniel Sandral: Yeah, we do have

children that come to school, , with

257

no English necessarily, but.

258

All our children come to school

with rich language, whether that

259

be in English or another language.

260

They all come with literacy.

261

They all come with

foundations, , of language.

262

And in doing that, particularly

those who don't matter, have English

263

as their first language sets up

really great success for them.

264

To develop , this second language

or their third language in English.

265

And that's something that we cater

for , really well here at MLC School

266

, for those that are native English

speakers , or have a strong proficiency

267

in English, we certainly have programs

where we continue to help 'em to

268

strive, , in their old developments.

269

And for those that don't, we have actually

a really unique, really rich language

270

program here that , we have developed and

continue to develop that really sets them

271

up for success, , to get onto that journey

of becoming a proficient English speaker.

272

Because one of the things that we do

know as educators is that all language.

273

It's a really strong foundation

underpinning for reading writing

274

and other aspects of literacy.

275

So it's why we place a really strong

emphasis on all language literacy

276

development in our pre-K program.

277

And I suppose that the real message

I want to get across to parents

278

is not to be concerned about that.

279

It's our job to help our girls flourish in

English, and we will do that, , and their

280

job is to just continue to encourage their

literacy development at home, whether

281

that be in English or another language.

282

And what I would recommend is that for

those families who are bilingual, and

283

we have many bilingual families in our

community, that when they speak to them in

284

English, stay speaking to 'em in English.

285

And when you speak to your child in

another language, perhaps , your first

286

language, your, your cultural background

language, be true to that language.

287

Don't mix them up.

288

, It helps with their English

proficiency as they develop.

289

Anthony Perl: Fantastic.

290

Well, just to wrap things up, I

wanna frame this in the context

291

of perhaps even telling a story,

, your favorite story that, around

292

some children as they've been.

293

Or even parents as they're getting

ready for, , for pre-K and talking about

294

the whole concept of dare to be more.

295

, Particularly , you know, you're seeing

those bright little young faces who

296

are maybe a little bit scared, , and

how do you see that Dare to be more

297

starting to play out with them, over a

period of time as you watch them grow?

298

Uh, you know, Natalie, can

I ask you first on that?

299

Natalie Hirdnat: Yeah, sure.

300

well I mentioned right at the

start that I had been a deputy at

301

MLC School for six or so years.

302

So I'm at that point where, , I'm

sort of seeing that generation move

303

through a junior school now and, . It's

to see where some of those girls are

304

now sitting in year five and six have

come when I think about some of those

305

hairy days, , in pre-kindergarten,

, in those first few days when they

306

were settling into a new school.

307

, And then to watch the over

the years, , just develop.

308

, Their talents and their

interests, , to see them really

309

becoming young women almost when

they come out of junior school.

310

Um, I think dead to be more throughout

that journey because that is not

311

just a tagline at MLC School.

312

, We really live and breathe it

and we challenge ourselves and we

313

challenge the girls to be more.

314

And they certainly do.

315

And , I'm at a lovely point now where

I, I see that first generation come

316

through, , really having lived that.

317

Anthony Perl: And what

about for you, Daniel?

318

Daniel Sandral: Oh look, I concur

with Nat in, in that we live and brief

319

dare to be more in so many ways, but

even pre-K in our pre-kindergarten.

320

That becomes part of , their

DNA , here as students.

321

And, , they also sometimes can even

challenge us as educators in the

322

most respectful way, but help us to

become the best educators we can be.

323

But a funny little story is, I

remember a few years ago, , we

324

built a really beautiful,

engaging, , outdoor learning space

325

and playground for our pre-K students.

326

And I Spent a lot of time helping

with the design , and the thought,

327

and I was immensely proud of it.

328

And I still remember the day that

we opened it and our new pre-K

329

students, , ran out and to play

and I was immensely proud of it.

330

And I remember this one little girl came

up to me , and she still, a student in

331

our junior school now, , upper primary,

and she said, but where's the swing?

332

There was no, there is no swing.

333

We don't have a swing.

334

, But to me , it that little bit of

humor, but almost going that little

335

bit extra, that little challenge

going, look, this is great.

336

I've got this wonderful adventure

playground, but I wanna challenge myself a

337

little bit more and have a swing as well.

338

, And that just encapsulates

the look, the most gorgeous.

339

Beautiful students that we

have here at this school.

340

, They really, truly are delightful

, and they're respectful and they're

341

intelligent and so capable, but they also

challenge , and they do it respectfully.

342

And I love watching them grow up and

soon to leave our schools one day and to

343

go out there and challenge the world in

which we live and make it a better place.

344

And yeah, that's what even our little

pre-K girls are doing in their own way.

345

Anthony Perl: Fantastic.

346

Thank you so much, both of

you for being a part of this.

347

I think anyone that's listening in as

a parent is going to feel just that

348

little bit more comfortable about

what's ahead of them and, , that they're

349

not alone in a journey that many.

350

Have traveled and there'll be lots

of fun to have along the way, even

351

if some of it's a little bit scary.

352

Daniel Sandral: Absolutely no,

it's certainly a partnership.

353

Anthony Perl: Thank you so

much for being a part of it.

354

Natalie Hirdnat: Thank you.

355

Daniel Sandral: Thank you.