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Episode 307 - Sportswear, Lockdowns and Vaccines
3rd August 2021 • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
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In a combined exploration of societal, scientific, and personal dilemmas, the podcast episodes delve into a myriad of topics set against the backdrop of the COVID-19 pandemic. The discussions range from personal experiences such as legal challenges involving the Noosa Temple of Satan and public engagements, to broader societal issues including court proceedings during lockdowns, and women's rights exemplified by the Norwegian women's beach handball team's uniform controversy. The episodes also confront the ramifications of freedom protests, vaccine mandates, and the pervasive influence of misinformation on public vaccine perceptions. Additionally, they touch on the declining state of American friendships, loneliness among U.S. adults, and speculate on COVID-19's future trajectory, referencing scientific predictions. Amidst sharing personal anxieties related to an upcoming court case and the complexities surrounding religious denominations, the episodes collectively underscore the impact of the pandemic on various facets of life, encapsulating a blend of anticipation, reflection, and the ongoing societal and personal adjustments to a world in flux.

00:00 Welcome to the Podcast: Introductions and Episode Overview

01:03 Court Case Update and Personal Anecdotes

02:30 Diving into Women's Issues: From Mansplaining to Olympic Attire

14:02 Exploring Gender Norms at School Formals

20:27 Navigating Lockdowns and Freedom Debates

27:13 The Impact of COVID-19 Lockdowns on Society

44:14 Vaccination Passports: A Glimpse into the Future?

45:37 Global Vaccine Mandates and Passport Discussions

47:46 Australia's Existing Medical Mandates

50:11 The Intriguing Case of a Flight Attendant's COVID-19 Exposure

01:03:21 The Dark Side of Misinformation and Conspiracy Theories

01:09:49 The Political Landscape of Anti-Vaccination Movements

01:16:55 The Impact of Misinformation and Skepticism on Public Health

01:19:13 The Curious Case of Alan Jones and Media Influence

01:26:32 The Legal Battle Over Religious Denomination and Society


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You can sign up for our newsletter, which links to articles that Trevor has highlighted as potentially interesting and that may be discussed on the podcast. You will get 3 emails per week.

We have a website. www.ironfistvelvetglove.com.au

You can email us. The address is trevor@ironfistvelvetglove.com.au

You can send us a voicemail message at Speakpipe

We have a sister podcast called IFVG Evergreen. It is a collection of evergreen content from the weekly podcast.

Transcripts started in episode 324. You can use this link to search our transcripts. Type "iron fist velvet glove" into the search directory, click on our podcast and then do a word search. It even has a player which will play the relevant section. It is incredibly quick.

Transcripts

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Well, dear listener.

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Welcome.

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This is the iron fist and the velvet glove podcast coming to you remotely

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during the Brisbane lockdown.

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3rd of August, 2021 episode 307 iron Trevor AKA the iron fist.

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Beavering away with a mouse on a on a treadmill is shy in her

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apartment Shay, welcome aboard again.

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And also Joe, the tech guy is somewhere Joe's just disappeared,

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but he is there somewhere.

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I don't know why that just did that.

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Yeah, but Daniel is there anyway.

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So it's the three of us and it's episode 307.

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And we're going to run through the topics of the last two weeks

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and talk about what's happened and there's been a few things.

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So sit back and relax.

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If you're in the chat room, say hello.

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And make a comment and share your thoughts and we'll try and

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get to your comments if we can.

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So just a little, a couple of issues first, before we start on what that was.

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But before we get going, just a few personal things.

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So the court case for the Nyssa temple of Satan is still scheduled for Thursday.

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Next week, the 12th of August, I checked with crown law and apparently ball cases

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are one of those things that keeps going even in a lockdown because it's just

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too difficult to reschedule everybody.

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So as much as possible court cases keep going.

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So at this stage, it's still scheduled for the 12th of August.

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Hi, to Craig in the chat room.

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Craig, I got your message.

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And I've been too busy to respond, but sorry about that.

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And just the other thing is I went to a function in the gap.

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Last.

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Week.

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It was like this little arts group.

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There's sort of a community arts place where there's going

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to be artists hanging stuff up.

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And as a or of art supplies, I thought I should go.

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And anyway, Jonty Bush, local state member labor party was there.

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And and I had my mask on and I just said, ah, hello on Trevor.

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And she looked at me and she said, oh, I recognize you went,

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where do I recognize you from?

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And I thought to myself, well, I'm a labor party member, but I haven't

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been to any meetings I'm really done.

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I really don't know how you would've recognized me.

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I'm I just, I was honestly stumped about five minutes later I thought,

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oh, it was probably because she's seen me in the paper and I've given

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the education minister a hard time.

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So I think that's actually recognized me behind the mask.

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So anyway, that was that.

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Shay lots of stuff for you to get your teeth into in this or Reagan,

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lots of women's issues shy, and you're a women's issues expert.

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We didn't get a flight attendant issue to K through and your expert brand damage.

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If you're watching on the live stream, you'll see Jay there with his fancy

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background, I made the joke earlier that Jay's taking this live streaming stuff.

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Why too, literally, but anyway, you'll have to be looking at

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the vision to get that joke.

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So Shea John coats Anastasia pallor, Shea, we Brisbane won the Olympic

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bead and there was this scene where there was a slight press conference.

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Everybody had their masks.

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And what is that noise, Joe?

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What is that?

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When that happens anyway, everyone had their masks on and.

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There was this confusion or there's debate about whether Anastasia was going

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to attend a opening ceremony or not.

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And John Cote said you are going to the opening ceremony.

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And he said, I am still the deputy chair of the candidature leadership group.

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And so far as I understand, there will be an opening and closing ceremony in 2032.

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And you're all gonna get along there and understand the traditional parts of it.

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What's involved in the opening ceremony so that none of you are staying

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behind and hiding in your rooms.

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All right.

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And this was taken maybe to the main splining shy.

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It was John coats.

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Is it got anything to answer full there?

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Yeah, I thought it was I thought Joan Cara, now that actually, I think

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we've all been there in that type of situation before where they just get

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telling and takes them by surprise.

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And she just did the best she could with the resources that

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she had available to her.

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And basically she is down as she does.

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And she's damned if she doesn't.

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So she dealt with it as best she could.

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So is this a case of mansplaining and bullying by John cage?

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So you think absolutely right.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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I'm not sure.

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Let's see.

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I thought at first, maybe you were like, when you initially saw the

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footage, did you think oh, absolutely.

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Yeah, I did.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So when I looked at it initially, I thought, yikes, that's really ugly, but

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it turns out they're really quite close by all accounts, genuinely good friends.

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It seems.

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And the sort of, why it was described was that he was kind of

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joking in a sarcastic sort of it.

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It didn't translate well, and here's the thing is when everyone's

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behind masks, it's really hard to tell facial expressions.

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And if you are being, it's like a debate on Facebook, in a Facebook common page, if

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you are trying to use sarcasm or something like that, you basically have to say in

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the comment you know, sarcasm coming and then insert sarcasm sort of culminate

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because it's hard to read sarcasm in a Facebook comment, and it's hard to read

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if he was doing what he said he was doing.

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Yes.

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You're a big one on context and pretext and the pretext is their buddies and

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buddies joke with each other about things.

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Don't you.

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Yeah.

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Well, I think the pretext is Hayes accustomed to getting his own way,

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but he's a skilled negotiator and that he's unaccustomed to being held to

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account for the way he speaks to people.

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That's what I think is the pretext is that that's a typical way for him

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to behave and what he didn't expect was the backlash that's possible.

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That's possible.

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But, and I found it really surprising that it was like Anastasia was held

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responsible for his remarks as well.

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Also seemed to be that in the background of like, oh, well, she

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got what she wanted because now she can attend the Olympic ceremony.

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I'm missing the point.

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Isn't it?

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Yeah.

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It just depends.

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It's hard to know whether to believe it's possible.

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His version of events is possible.

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I'm simply saying.

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And I'm simply saying that this is one of the problems

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when people cover their faces.

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So w we used to talk a lot about the burka and the niqab and, and my objection to

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it was that it was if I'm just walking down the street or whatever, I really

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being able to read somebody's expressions.

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Facial expressions helps me understand if they're a friend or foe, like you

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just read a lot in people's faces.

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And I sort of turned around a little bit after a trip to Japan, where

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everybody was wearing face masks.

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And I thought for some reason I was happy to forgive face mask, but I wasn't

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happy to forgive Dekab and burgers.

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And but I think it just demonstrates one of the difficulties when people cover

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their face is nuance and sarcasm and.

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Saying something that you don't really mean.

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And in fact, you mean the opposite of it, which you can deliver

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that meaning with your face.

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And she was hard to read as well because it looked behind the mask that she was

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coward and, and sort of under pressure and feeling it, but she could have been

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smiling away and, and enjoying the joke.

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And we just wouldn't know, I guess that's possible.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah.

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So I just thought that was an interesting example.

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It's just hard to know what really happened and I could easily imagine

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it when either of the two ways the one you described or the one he described.

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So yeah, when we go back over the footage, you can hear the laughter indeed.

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There is apple was confusing.

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The audience did seem to take it as jest, but then again, that maybe that

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doesn't make any difference at all later.

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Yeah.

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So Bronwyn in the chat room says she understood John coats to

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be exactly as Shay described.

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So you've got one there saying Roman, do you see though, that it's possible,

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it might've been the other way or you just totally discount that.

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Like it's hard to know.

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So dire straits in the chat rooms, there's a bit later.

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Can I bring up the topic of social media and whether it's promotion or

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not sure, John, you can bring that up.

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And Craig was in the chat room and he sent me a message, which I hadn't got

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to read fully, but he was really, I think concerned about what well, he was

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talking a little bit about my discussion with cam and psychopaths and I think

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sort of objecting to some of the broad descriptions that were made there.

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So we might get to that later.

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Alright.

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Next topic still to do with the Olympics and this is to do with the Norwegians.

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The Norwegian women's beach handball team.

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Did you see the Shea without me sending it to you or you?

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I did see it or not.

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Yeah.

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I'm out of a Facebook page.

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That's a campaign group called collective shout.

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Right.

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And they're nonpolitical nonreligious, but they campaign against

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sexploitation of women lightly.

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Their main campaign has been against honey Birdette, which is the lingerie

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school that's in shopping centers and the way that they advertise basically

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soft porn in shopping centers.

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So they'd latched on to this as well.

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And started the hashtag, let them wear shorts.

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Yeah.

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Getting lots of signatures on a petition and building momentum.

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So what's the name of the group collective shout, like to share?

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So with the Norwegian handball team the women's team was fine.

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After the players wore shorts instead of the required bikini bottoms.

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And I've got on the screen, dear listener, if you're watching on

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the live stream, a picture from the 2019, when they were in their bikini

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bottoms, and I'll put up on the screen a picture of them in the short-stay

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war, which they were fined for wearing.

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And the interesting thing, just going back to the previous one,

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when you look at the guys, just take normal shorts and seamless,

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like it's a really strict, bad look.

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The way the guys are dressed in a singlet and a pair of shorts, and

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the girls are obviously required to just show lots of screens.

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It's pretty bad.

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Yeah.

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So I think that picture would probably be the one that appears

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as a cover for this episode.

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So they were fined and the international.

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Handball Federation requires women to wear bikini bottoms with

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a close fit and cut at an upward angle towards the top of the leg.

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The sides of the bikini bottoms must be nine more than four inches men.

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On the other hand can wear shorts as long as four inches above their knees.

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As long as they're not too baggy and a spokeswoman for the international

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handball Federation said on Tuesday night that she didn't know the

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reason for the rules quite well.

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We're looking into it internally.

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She said, and she later said, no, I was the only country that had

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officially complained globally.

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We know that other countries like to play in bikinis, for example,

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especially in south America.

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And you could well imagine Brazilians loving it.

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Well, imagine it, but Hey, it's, it's not necessary a tire.

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The sport and it's a pretty poor standard when the guys can wear whatever they like

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and the girls having to just show scheme.

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So, yeah, so, so good on the women's Norwegian team for

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kicking up a stink and sign.

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We're not putting up with this.

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So the other associated story with that was, did you hear about the two time

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great Britain para Olympian, Alivia bream.

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So she is some sort of long jumper, I think.

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And she has cerebral palsy and she was at the English championships in Bedford

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and She was told her sprinting briefs were too short and inappropriate.

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Did you see that one show at all?

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Like how?

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Just, yeah, just like the reckoning is so slow in the pace.

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Like there's things that we just went along with the so many years, there's just

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like so absurd that we tolerated those kinds of Vermont's, but yeah, it's, it

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takes time to realize, let the Brazilians wear bikini's if they want to, but the

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Norwegians wear shorts if they want to.

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Oh, the unitards if they want that's what's coming out now as well.

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You're right.

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But to add that to the list.

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So normally the gymnast is showing a fair bit of skin and one of

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the teams in particular has sort of worn a leotard type outfit.

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So.

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Whatever just works functionally for the person.

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If it doesn't give an unfair advantage them, just let them

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do whatever they want to do.

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Goodness.

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So yeah, so there we go.

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She felt very embarrassed when she'd been told her outfit was too skimpy.

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Sorry, there we go.

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Yep.

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Shy.

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I'm going to get rid of that one there and get rid of it.

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Don't need the screen anymore.

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Shay, still on women's issues.

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Did you have a school for when you were?

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Yes, I did.

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Then he guys, was it a bit me?

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Were you a co you were co-ed or?

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Yeah, I was at a co-ed school girls school for a time when I was at that age.

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Okay.

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Did the all girls school, when they have a formal, did they invite boys alone?

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I'm pretty sure I did.

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Yeah.

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So Morton college in outskirts of Brisbane and the bay area.

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They've come under fire for a sense of girls' school.

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And they've made a decision that ban students from bringing male

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partners to the upcoming semi-formal.

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And basically this comes about because last year, due to COVID, they

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weren't allowed to bring boys along.

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And this year they decided that was such a good time.

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Last year, without the voice, we're not going to have them.

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Was it just male partners though?

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I think so.

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Yeah.

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I don't think there's any issues of same-sex partnerships in

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this particular one just yet.

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Okay.

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Cause that's usually the reason it is, but yeah.

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Yeah.

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This is just an all girls school and can't bring any males along

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because we had such a good time last year where they are and some people

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are up in arms and Shay, did you?

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Yeah.

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You have any thoughts about.

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If you were conducting, if you're a principal of an all girls school,

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would you be running it with, or without boys or you just wouldn't care.

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If I trolled at the previous here and found it really worked, then I can't say

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why wouldn't it laced, float the idea.

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Yeah, certainly I found at the semi-formal informal and I went to boys.

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The boy that I took both years was a different boy.

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Didn't really like to be in photos.

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Didn't want to dance.

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Didn't want to do any of the particular things you'd expect.

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So, you know, basically why put the boys through it, but I don't want

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to pay that fine fun book notes.

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Right.

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I don't get the upset.

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I don't get the tragedy of it, frankly.

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Okay.

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So, okay.

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But if you were a girl and you wanted to bring a boy along and we're told

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we can't first start, this was a unilateral decision from up high on the

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headmaster or headmistress, I think.

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That's it not doing it.

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So there wasn't any consultation.

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So that's on the one, you know, initially a bit mean you would think

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you would fly, as you said, float, the idea means ask students what

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they think don't think that happens.

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So so just looking at some of the comments here

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I like this,

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here's a comment.

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That is an interesting one.

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I completely understand why teachers would say the night would be

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more fun with just girls, because frankly it would be, however, the

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night isn't just about having fun.

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It's about having those awkward interactions with boys and

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learning from those interactions

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comment in the chat, but no, you're right.

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Yeah.

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I don't think that really bolsters the case.

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That's not the point I would have taken if I were campaigning to

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have boys loud or put interactions.

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Is that the best?

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Is that the best reason to invite partners?

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I don't know if it's the best, but it is a reason that how would you make,

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what is, what is the, tell us, what is the purpose of a formal, is it to have

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fun or is it to force people to have uncomfortable confronting conversations

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and times as a maturing process?

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What is the purpose of a form or is it to dance and happy Friday?

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Tagan for us, we like the girls just want to look beautiful

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and have their photo taken.

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And that was, that was the point of me going, but now like I was

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visiting a school two weeks ago and.

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Often that's how teachers and principals get their students in line.

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So that's how they get their school phase pay.

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They get a whole, I get people to really clean their act up

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so they can attend formals.

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Yeah.

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The threat of over 10, the formal.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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If you're going to do it that way, then perhaps you'd better consider that your

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students might like to bring a date.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Okay.

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So yeah, I just thought that was an interesting one as well.

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I could see the argument on both sides.

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It really depends on what you think the purpose of formal is.

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So, yes.

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I went to an all boys school and.

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Basically when they organize the form all day said, do you need us, what

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will the guy who organized the form will say, do you need us to get you

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a date from, from all Hallows school?

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Cause there was just a ready supply of girls from all allies that they

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would rustle up if he needed a date or are you sorted yourself?

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And I didn't have a girlfriend, but I knew this girl when, cause I was working

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as a hamburger flipper at McDonald's.

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So I asked this girl and she agreed to be my partner for the formal, but we weren't

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like girlfriend boyfriend type stuff.

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She had a driver's license and could pick me up and take me there so that good

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thinking she made, like, it was great.

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It was better that she was there, then not there.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, but yeah, I don't know.

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I don't look back on fondly in any sense.

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Yeah, it was probably one of the reasons why I was determined that my

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kids would go to a co-ed school, just so it wouldn't be weirded out because

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look, on the other hand, I know with my kids who went to a co-ed school, they

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had fantastic falls like this, Tom.

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So we had the pre formals at our house and just kids everywhere.

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It was really lovely.

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Not a great time.

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So yeah, I think another reason to send your kids to a co-ed school, if possible.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Okay.

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So that's a gender issues done and dusted.

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Thank you.

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Show for helping us through that.

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So We need to talk about freedom just to get us in the mood.

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I'll just play a little audio.

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Alba goop, bruh.

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Scotland forever.

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I can, can take your lives, but I'll never take your freedom.

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Lockdowns freedom, new south Wales.

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Oh, where do we start?

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Where do we start?

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Your thoughts shy or Jo on the protests in Sydney, Melbourne.

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Brisbane.

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Did you go and protest by any chance?

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We did.

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Knowing, knowing Mel Gibson's rather Nazi beliefs, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

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If he was in an anti masker.

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No, wouldn't surprise.

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Right?

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But yes.

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I saw a beautiful post today that said effectively, we're all fatigued from

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this because those of us who are taking it seriously are protecting those who

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don't and those who don't are running around going, oh, it's all a stupid thing.

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You know, look how fine I am.

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And the reason they're fine is because of the work that the rest

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of us are doing in protecting them.

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So those of us who are taking it seriously paying the price for those who go on about

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their freedoms and refuse to wear a mask.

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And generally the reason that they haven't ended up in hospital

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is because of the rest of us.

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Yep.

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If free free loaders on society.

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Yes.

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And they just have this view that they're individual freedom.

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Has no responsibility attached to it that they can enjoy the benefits that

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society has without any responsibility to contribute back to society in any way.

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It's just take, take, take, and not any give, give, give at all in this.

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You, you know that statistically it's safer for me to drive home pissed from

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the pub than it is for me to walk home.

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So for me, it's safer.

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So my freedom should be that I'm allowed to get in the car and drive

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home drunk because it's safer for me.

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Yes.

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Funnily enough, we've decided to make some rules to try and stop you from doing that.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I mean, we make rules all the time.

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Restricting people's freedom when there's a good reason to,

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but the protection of everybody.

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Yeah.

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But isn't it more that they're like steadily alarmed about this

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slippery slope type conversation.

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Like I get the impression from people I say on my Facebook who are on the

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fringes of this Q Anon business.

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And they, they genuinely believe that governments are corrupt, which you could

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probably make, you could make a case for.

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They genuinely are alarmed about what they're saying.

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So they say themselves as lack, conquers, not as selfish people.

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And that has to be, I think, handled doesn't it.

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Well, they also don't necessarily believe that the virus is in any way as oh, maybe

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that it is real, but it's certainly not as dangerous as it's made out to be.

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It's like the people January 6th with the capital sort of apparatus.

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If you actually believe the election was stolen from Donald Trump, then you were

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really a, a, a democratic freedom fighter.

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If he believed that you were upholding democracy and freedom, because he,

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he believed the election was raped.

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So if you've got a misconceived view about lockdowns you're right,

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Shay, you could potentially be doing this thinking morally.

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You're actually in the, on the right side of the ledger.

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It's this, that nobody else understands it the way that it needs to be understood

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because they're all being manipulated by mainstream media or something like that.

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So there's something, I guess what you're saying is there's

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something admirable about the people who are protesting in that?

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No, they're admirable.

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I'm just kind of glad they're a little bit more out in the open.

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The gentleman who was charged for punching the horse, Shane wasn't

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able to get legal help for five days.

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He was in custody because he refused to have his test.

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Now, there is somebody who is really standing his ground over, being tested.

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That is someone who is really conscious, that there is some consequence around

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being tested and really mistrusting the system, which like a part of me

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does understand that is a pretty new requirement to receive legal help.

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So, I guess what I'm saying is that I, I understand kind of the, the rage

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and the lack of explanation and yeah, that's all, and I'm kind of glad

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they're out in the open because now we do have to deal with it more easily.

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Well, maybe that's one thing, but yeah, Carl Sagan warned us of this, right.

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Where, where people were believed that their beliefs were equivalent

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to your science, that, that that it's a matter of which sites you pick

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rather than science being a process of discovery and of continual learning.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So that's tricky.

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These people honestly believe That we've all been manipulated that these lockdowns

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are Y over the top compared to the risks that are actually there and that they are

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freedom fighters and democracy fighters on behalf of the sheeple who died to get it.

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So they're doing some favor.

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Yeah.

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Sorry.

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Some of the shameful and the cured on people have some things in common where

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we both think shit has got to change.

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Like it really has galvanized some of the social issues.

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Yeah.

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I, I, I don't know.

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Like, yeah, I, I don't know.

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I mean, I, I think there's discussion about the social cost of lockdowns,

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and I think this is a very, very good argument for a UBI or something

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equivalent this discussion.

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Universal.

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Yeah.

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The discussion that effectively society, if society wants these people to take

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the hit to protect society, then society has an obligation to make sure that they

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don't lose their houses, that there's food on the table that they looked after.

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And the same with vaccines that the people who really are injured should

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be looked after by society because they have Powerade, the paid, paid the price.

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You know, there is a very small chance that a vaccine is going to cause injury.

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Because they've put themselves at risk, we should cover their costs.

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Yep.

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If people are wanting to protest, they could protest about the lack of support

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for people have been forced not to work.

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Meanwhile, Capitol can continue to grow and earn income.

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And flying to space.

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Yes, indeed.

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So that's what people could protest about, but people seem to

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be quite meek and mild on that.

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I saw in a central report where even labor party people had

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thought that the government support was around about adequate.

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And I really thought, wow, surprise me that there wasn't enough people thinking

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of all the billions of dollars that have been spent so far, what's another

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couple of billion and have they're taking some of Jerry Harvey and giving

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it back to the people who need it.

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But now it's sort of surprising that people weren't looking at it and

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going, we've just got to give people who can't work more money because

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it's too tough, but there's not really enough protest about that.

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I don't think so.

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No, it seems to be very selfish protest.

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I deserve the right to go and work.

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Yes.

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Rather than the, okay.

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Let's look down society, but let's pay people properly.

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Yes.

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And it, you know, there's just a real lack of recognition that in

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our society, we have restrictions and freedom all the time.

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Like you were saying with driving home drunk.

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And I saw this post, which I read a little bit about, which

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was welcome to the freedom cafe.

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We trust you make your own choices.

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If you want to wear a face mask.

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And in the same spirit of individual Liberty, we allow our staff to make

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their own choices about the safety procedures they prefer to follow.

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As they prepare and serve your food.

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We encourage employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom, but

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understand that some people may be allergic to certain soaps or may

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prefer not to wash their hands.

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It is not our place to tell them what to do.

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We understand you may be used to chicken that has been cooked at 165 degrees.

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We do have to respect that side of our cooks may have

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seen a meme or a YouTube video.

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Saying that a hundred, a hundred degrees is fine and we don't want

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to encroach on their beliefs.

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Some servers may wish to touch your food as they serve it.

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There's no reason that a healthy person with clean hands can't touch your food.

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We will take their word for it, that they are healthy and clean.

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And it goes on.

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So some of you may get sick, but almost everyone survives food poisoning.

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We think you'll agree that it's a small price to pay for the sweet

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freedom of no one ever being told what to do, especially not for the silly

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reason of keeping strangers healthy.

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I thought that was a good example.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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People just think freedom, freedom, freedom.

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And they don't get that.

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Your freedoms being cutout all the time for good reasons.

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Yeah.

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And I was waiting, they a little while ago I was listening to it on audible around

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I forget the title, but it's a book.

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That's a really amazing book.

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Five years of riding around domestic.

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Look what you made me do.

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And she makes the case at the end about how, when Australia is well-known for

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when we have a public health emergency, we are known to put the reforms in.

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So for instance, you use the example of drunk driving has a

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story about how she didn't check.

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We didn't check community standards.

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We didn't go down to the pub and check how people felt about whether

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or not we would let them drink drive.

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We just brought it in, say it's cigarettes.

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We didn't we were actually taken Australia, was taken to court

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about some of our bores that we brought in a brand plain packaging.

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And we, and Julia Gilad still implemented them.

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And you can make the same case for vaccinations and a whole range of these

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things is it's a public health emergency.

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This is what we know.

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We do.

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Y.

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The problem is these people don't see the emergency.

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They think it's a beat up that it's not as bad as what it's being made out to be.

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And therefore these things are over the top.

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And maybe a limit, you know a time limit on these powers would be a

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suitable compromise to say that.

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And, and yeah, there was the whole Dan Andrews, oh, look, he's

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extended his emergency powers again.

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But the whole point, the emergency powers is you have to go back to

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parliament, you have to justify it.

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And I think it does.

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There's, there's a, a level of accountability there.

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Unfortunately with the, the September the 11th, we passed a whole raft of

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spying laws which didn't have an end date and have never been repealed.

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And I think we need to be careful of knee-jerk reactions.

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So that we do have Susan will safety when there is a real risk, but

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that it's not there all the time.

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Yes.

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In times of of fear laws get passed and then they're in the books forever.

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It's hard to turn them back.

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So look, really one of the, since we last spoke, the big thing has been

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the outbreak in new south Wales where they've been able to get by without

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too many troubles in recent times.

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Let me display a little bit of a Gladys Berejiklian being interviewed.

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Here we go.

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Why do Melbourne?

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Right?

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Or Victoria, you know, when we get a couple of cases, we, we,

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we kind of control it and it's, and it comes down very quickly.

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What happens in Victoria, where it just gets away from them.

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I keep saying to people, it's not for me to comment on what other

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governments do, but I've just got the, we've got the confidence that

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our systems in place, our public's used to doing things a particular way.

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And it's a question of trust and it's harder.

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It's much easier to lock down because you don't have to worry about anything.

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It's much more difficult to let people move around when the virus is circulating.

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And that's been a challenge for us, but it's been a worthwhile challenge.

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I hope we've demonstrated to other states that it is possible to manage an

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outbreak and not shut down a city and not stop businesses and not stop people

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being employed and not stop people.

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Having a relatively normal existence and comments have not aged well.

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I listened to a BBC podcast that we're talking to a couple of

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epidemiologists and they were saying that worked with the original variant.

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But the problem with Delta is it's so transmissible that the track

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and trace people cannot keep up.

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So where you have a relatively low R zero, which is the number of people,

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each person can infect your track and trace can keep up with that.

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But once you start getting above a threshold, you just can't trace the people

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as quickly as they are spreading it.

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Yeah.

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As the new south Wales track and Trice, all that flash compared to

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say, Victoria, wasn't that good?

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According to the epidemiologists that I listened to, they said, yes, it was right.

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It was significantly better than Victoria.

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They said Victoria's health system had been allowed to.

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Decay being rundown.

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Whereas new south Wales their chief health officer had come back with

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lessons learned from overseas and had really revamped the department and had

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put the skills in place that meant that they could get a suitable traffic trace

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up and running relatively quickly.

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Yeah.

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Queensland.

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Where did it fit in this scale of quality track and trace?

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I don't know.

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It wasn't mentioned.

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See, cause it really was Sydney.

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Melbourne.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I didn't get a chance to, I know you shared that with us, but I

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didn't get a chance to, it's a long podcast, but yeah, you can

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put the link up if you want people.

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They want to find that and listen to it.

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But you know, I, I just know here in Queensland, I just thought

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we've just been lucky and I just thought Victoria was unlucky.

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It seemed to me, and it seemed to me that Sydney was.

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And their Lux run out.

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And as a leader of a state, I would never have made that comment.

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I like to think because I would have just had this self awareness that

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we've just been there, but for the grace of God go, I is the sort of thing

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that she should have been thinking.

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She was looking at it.

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So yeah, it hasn't aged well, and there were other comments

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where she was asked in that same interview with is it's ridiculous

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that they're playing a recording.

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The best interviews we get are from Kyle and Jackie O interviewing Berejiklian,

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but they got, sometimes these politicians appear on these shows expecting a free

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ride and just the odd things come out.

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So, but she was asked in that one, are you going to give any

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of your vaccine to Victoria?

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And she said, oh no, I can't do that.

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I can't do that.

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Oh, the feds might give him a little bit of extra of something.

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Tucked away in a cupboard somewhere, but we're not going

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to give many, can't do that.

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And then, you know, as soon as these are files are outbreak, oh, we need extra.

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Now you sense of Chrissy double standards.

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No, look, I know I say you guys can't have it, but I'd really

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like some now and I get it now.

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It was just,

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what can you say really?

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So it's a that's Gladys.

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Berejiklian I'm going to put on the screen.

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The bit of luck is what people think about the lockdowns thinking about the

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latest COVID-19 lockdown in your state, do you think your state government locked

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down too harsh, locked down about right.

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Did not lock down hard enough and.

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It's only new south Wales, Victoria and south Australia and Victoria,

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71% thought that the state had locked down at about the right level in south

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Australia, 85% thought that the state had locked down at the right level.

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But in new south Wales, it was only 39.

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And in terms of did not lock down hard enough, Victoria in

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south Australia was 6% and 9%.

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But on this question of did not lock down hard enough.

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New south Wales was 50%.

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I think that's fairly damning of what people thought about what they did.

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That's changed in the last week because I looked a week ago and they were saying

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that they thought they were about right.

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Okay, well, that was the essential report, but I was quoting there quite recent.

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So w you were looking at something how long ago?

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I thought it was the essential report and it was, how did everyone think that

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new south Wales had handled the latest outbreak, but that would be the other

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state said it was poorly, but new south Wales people thought they'd done it well.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think even in this essential report, I didn't gather all of it sort of, sort

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of general impression of, are you happy with Gladys and the state government

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was still not too bad, but the, the, but the statistic of how do you think

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they went in terms of the lockdown?

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Was it hard enough that just got absolutely bashed on that one?

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So there was a little bit of a disconnect there, which won't come through.

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Well, it was, it was the fact that for so long, she just refused

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to utter the words locked down.

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And it was, yeah, they were trying to drag it out of her mouth that she was refusing

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to say it Voldemort, but get like that.

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Don't they like peanut BT was around for years.

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Like it's such an easy thing to do.

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You just do the Peter BD thing, say, sorry, he got it wrong promise.

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We're going to fix it.

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Yeah, you're right.

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We were wrong.

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We're done.

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And that just takes the oxygen, but yeah, I've got to learn from Peter BD.

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So so good luck.

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Do you, new south Wales, I'm, I'm working on a theory that they'll never

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get back to zero and that they will do some sort of our we'll have this

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local authority more locked down, but then these other authorities

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can basically do whatever they want.

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They'll just have little different districts with different rules

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and it just kind of give you.

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That's what I'm thinking.

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Anybody else agree with that theory, but there'll be locked

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out of the rest of Australia.

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I think if they do.

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Yes.

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And I can't see that politically that's yeah, that might work for a period of

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time, but I can't see them surviving that.

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Well, she's going to get as many vaccinated as she can.

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That's the goal.

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So she will vaccinate as she can in August and then shrugs

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his shoulders and says, right.

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We're good.

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Yeah.

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80, 80% of the 50% of the people that I made.

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No, I just skew it and spin it.

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And you know, that's the other thing is with the latest outbreak

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in Brisbane one day, what was it?

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Sunday of the 13 new cases, 10 were under the age of 10 and we can't

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vaccinate the under fifteens or whatever.

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The, the cohort.

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So there's the risk of it coming home from schools.

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Mm Hmm.

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It's interesting.

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In Sydney, the number of local local councils they have there, there are

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just, I don't know the exact figure, but they're like councils are really

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small districts and Sydney, I dunno.

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It might have 12 or 15 councils.

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I know around Bondai, like the Bondai junction shopping center,

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like straddles three councils.

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So when they're trying to approve something like that, just getting the

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roadworks and the building approvals for things like that are really difficult.

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So coming from Brisbane, we've got one of the largest local

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council organizations in the world.

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Like it's a Brisbane city, council's big and it's got a big budget in it.

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Whether it's live or liberal, it tends to operate pretty well.

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The Brisbane city council, I think But, yeah, Sydney's just

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got a lot of local councils.

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It's quite an archaic system where they really need to do something.

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And Clifford says, Trev, Melbourne is the sign, lots of local government authorities

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means lock sort of elected politicians.

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Yeah.

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And just these, you know, you're in the middle of the city and you're crossing

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over from one local council to another very hard to get properly organized with

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your transport and all the rest of it.

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So, so Brisbane is ahead of the game on that one.

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Where was I getting to, ah, yeah, in a Sydney, they're going to, you

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get to the point where they just say if you want to get into a pub or a

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restaurant, you're going to have to show some proof of vaccination and stuff.

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Everyone's just going to scurry for the AstraZeneca in order that they

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can get a some sort of vaccination proof and getting in do things.

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And they'll just, or I'll just forward to the certificate

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load they're doing in Russia.

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Okay.

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But surely there can be a certificate that's tamper-proof

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Joe is a tech guy, Joe.

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They can't be that hard.

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Oh, I mean the easiest way is to have a website that you're searchable on, but

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you still get medical staff who will take a bribe, or there are unfortunately

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members of the medical community who are anti-vaccine, who are amenable to.

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Updating records to reflect things that aren't necessarily true.

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They're few and far between, but unfortunately they do exist.

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Apparently in France, they are quite a heavy anti-vaxxer type community.

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The French they're not keen on us.

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They heavily into their homeopathy.

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Are they?

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You were aware of that before?

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I wasn't aware of it until I read the sign.

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Oh no, no.

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My mother-in-law is very much, but you know, even just going into a pharmacy

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that the rows and rows of homeopathy and natural remedies rolling, I didn't

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know that about France, but apparently that is a bit of a French thing.

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So what French president Emmanuel Macron has done as he's created this health pass

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and it's mandatory to have this health pass, which is proof of vaccination.

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In order to enter cultural and leisure venues, such as movie theaters and

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museums, and it's going to be extended to restaurants, bars, and public transport

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and long distance and opposition parties denounced what they call an authoritarian

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move saying the government is depriving citizens of their freedom of choice

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without a meaningful debate in parliament.

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And the new measures are credited with boosting vaccination campaign, which

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in previous weeks had lost steam.

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So Joe, you're saying they're anti-vaxxer, but once Macron has

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brought in these things saying, well, if you want to eat a beget and drink

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some wine you're going to need it.

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And they're now about 60% of the French are in favor of the health pass.

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And there's a remarkable level of support given their previous hesitancy.

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So.

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I do love that bureaucracy and France.

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Yeah.

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So anyway, it's just an insight to what will happen in new south Wales,

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where people are going to be hesitant about vaccines and the rest of the

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country is going to say lifted game because we're not letting you out.

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And they're going to introduce these things.

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And young people are going to take AstraZeneca just so that they can

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get to a pub and have a drink.

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I that's, that's the iron fist prediction of what's happening in new south Wales.

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And what happened in France is also happening.

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The Greek government introduced a vaccine requirements for their

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new, such as bars, movie, theaters, and Italy it's followed suit.

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And Britain says it was planning to make it mandatory for nightclub goers.

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So either of you guys have a problem with a vaccine passport proof thing

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to get into venues, no anybody did.

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That's where we're heading.

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I doubt that.

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I doubt that Scott Morrison's actually got the gun.

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But I think we'll leave it to the states to implement as they

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already are the local councils

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obvious and easiest way to have us move around safely.

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It depends on the level of vaccination.

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I think if we don't get above the safe threshold, we will need it.

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But if we get above it, if we get to the point where effectively the

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disease diseases no longer endemic, then I don't know that we'll need it.

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You don't think we'll need, you think we'll get back to

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zero is what you're saying?

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Well, I think with enough people, I think with enough people

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vaccinated, there'll be outbreaks.

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There'll be pockets.

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The same as with measles.

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We've now got vaccination rates high enough that you get a pocket

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of anti-vaxxers that all suddenly go down with measles, but when it

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hits larger society, most people are vaccinated and it dies very quickly.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Well, we'll see.

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It's all ahead of us.

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So just in terms of mandating medical things, is this something that we've

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never done before, or do we have some experience of it in the chat room?

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Clifford says, how about a barcode tattoo?

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That'd be something you could do on the back of my head, but he could tattoo.

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Like you can have a fake tattoo, I guess somehow they work out

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the barcode and there's copy it.

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I don't know.

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Nothing's beyond cheating isn't so he's current existing medical mandates.

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So in Australia, So don't worry about Italy and France and the Greeks

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we've got no jab, no pay policy removes entitlements in childcare

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subsidies from unvaccinated families.

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Current law Australia health workers are required to be protected

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from most diseases, including receiving annual influenza shots.

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Is your, your mother's a health worker.

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Shea, does she have to get as a matter of law, a flu shot?

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You don't know?

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I don't know.

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No.

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I know that black flight attendants, their employment

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requires them to get Maysles rebel.

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I have to say before they're employed and take all medical and have proof of

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that, but the flu shot is optional, right?

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Okay.

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Arrivals in Australia have to hold an international vaccination certificate.

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If they've stayed overnight or longer in a country designated to be yellow fever.

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Yeah.

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And here's a good one.

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Plumbers have to be up-to-date on their hepatitis, a B vaccinations.

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It's a high-risk job.

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Okay.

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Sewerage, right?

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Is that yes?

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Right.

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Okay.

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Here we go.

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And yeah, so it's treatment workers.

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At the same, there we go.

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When I, when I migrated here, I had to have a negative HIV test.

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Right.

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And also I had to have a chest x-ray to prove that I didn't have tuberculosis.

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There we go.

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What about crime's disease had to get by with that?

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I actually was diagnosed with IBS before my medical and I wasn't diagnosed

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with Crohn's until I'd received my.

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So we should be screening people to keep, keep, obviously keep people like you out.

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I'm still paying more in tax than I'm getting back.

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Oh, you snuck through the system.

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Okay.

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There we go.

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I just jumped ahead now.

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I'm going to go back.

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I'm all over.

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Just stop with this one.

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Dear listener.

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Let me just see, I know I had, Shane is our resident expert on

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women's affairs and youth matters.

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We require you shy to explain when, when the, when the 25 to 35

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year olds, you know, I couldn't do opinion polls or thinking crazy.

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Here's another one.

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Apparently.

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It was a flight attendant who brought a Sydney sider across the

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border from Griffith to Queensland on behalf of all flight attendants.

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As soon as I had, I started my career at Quantis link on the turbo props.

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So as soon as I heard that ways, I knew exactly.

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And don't say anything that will defame her or or, or identify her,

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but she's already been identified.

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Yeah.

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You've got some inside knowledge that you share with us about that.

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And yes, that just, that her credibility had improved because I didn't think

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it will have bikey affiliations where a hundred percent the truth.

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Oh, right.

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There we go.

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Allegedly dated the cop killer.

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Well, the, the, the rags were plastering around the base.

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Talk about that.

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It didn't seem credible, but now it's sort of things possible.

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Look, airline hostess is just a you know, a representative

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of our society in general.

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And you know, they've got all sorts.

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They've got podcasters and they've got lucky associates and it's

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just, yeah, they just draw it on the normal human experience.

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That's like maybe 1% of us, even though I know recently there was an article

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about organized crime at Quantas website is a very, very low bikey

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affiliation among flight attendants.

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But I know what cops and other people say this I'm like, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I do just want to say one thing.

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I'm glad she did go and get tested.

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Right?

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Cause she could, she, she didn't seem to be in any obvious.

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Problems.

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She went and got tested because she was experiencing symptoms.

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So I know it took a long time.

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I know she's in deep shit.

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I know she's been, you know, but I would just like to say she did

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go and get tested and however, it looks like he wasn't cooperative.

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And she went off sick the day before she went to pick him up and then lied

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about her exposures, which meant that she was exposed earlier than she had been.

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And that's why they were panicking about all the regional flights that

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they thought she'd been on when she hadn't even met up with him

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and caught the COVID from him yet.

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So the chance of her keeping her job after that, I think is very low.

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Yes.

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Blackie affiliation among flight attendants after

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this one lace potentially.

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Yeah.

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Ramen in the chat room says when I was a kid, we had compulsory

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chest x-rays for adults in Victoria as a control measure for TB.

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Yeah.

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Dad was saying they used to have that there were bulk x-rays literally they'd

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get a mobile x-ray van turned up at the school and they'd all be x-rayed to

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check for TB right back in the fifties.

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We're in the really, and days when they were measuring people for their

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shoes, they used to x-ray their feet.

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And yes.

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Yes.

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Sorry.

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That's well, before that, they realized that wasn't a good idea to extra weekly,

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full, so much headaches machines in the fitting mechanism in shoe shops.

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Apparently it was the shoe shop attendance that got the worst doses.

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Yeah.

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Well, when you're getting your teeth x-rayed or something and they all scurry

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out the door as they're zapping, you being pressured is not a good idea

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hanging around, but yeah, you're right.

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Lots of people.

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I mean, we laugh, but it's just one of those things that they

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just didn't know any better.

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And it seemed like a radio.

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Yeah.

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They used to paint the luminescent hands or the watches, the heirs.

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And so they'd be sat there, painting the dials of the watches with flora,

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luminescent paint, which is radioactive.

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And they, they would lick the brushes to get a finer tip on them.

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And yeah, at the time it was thought to be harmless.

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So they thought it was a bit of a laugh and used to paint their teeth

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with it so that they go into a room with the lights out and just green and

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look, their, their teeth would like.

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And so the stories of people who'd worked in these factories and what

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they used to do, just because they thought it was fun only to find

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out, actually it was poisonous probably with that sort of contact.

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It would only take a couple of years before people suddenly started losing

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tongues and teeth and things like that.

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Yeah.

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Hopefully that didn't go on for decades and then appear decades later.

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They have like catching him.

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Don't know.

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I mean, at one stage it was radium.

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Water was sold as a cure role.

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You know, the, the usual snake oil salesman jumped on because

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they discovered radioactivity and therefore it must be good for you.

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There are some very scary, and there was also kids, kids experiment kits

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that came with a little bottle of radioactive, something that you

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could do various experiments with.

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And you tell kids today that, and they won't believe you, you know, like the four

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Yorkshireman will just tell them, well, you know, well, the guy I play squash with

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now, now is only 10 years older than me.

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And when he was a high school student at Mitchelton high school,

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the school had its own armory.

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Like the kids used to go in and get guns and head out onto the firing range and

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practice shooting and all sorts of stuff.

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Right.

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Two schools, I went to one was an army school.

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So you kind of expect that, but the other one was a standard stock standard,

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private school, private school yet.

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So would be called a public school in the UK.

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But yes, we had an armory with Leanne fields and a couple of brands.

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And various T2 rifles.

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This sounds very familiar.

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My friend Knoll says, this is exactly what they had at Mitchelton high school.

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And that wasn't that long ago.

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When you think about it, it would have been you know, the chances of

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a school shooter in those days were minimal because the kids could have

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gone into the, into the gun room and loaded themselves up and taken the

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guy on and they had training to do it.

Speaker:

Like it's amazing what they used to, like kids would be lying down and, and shooting

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on the firing range and some of these guns instead of a recoil, it would like

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drag them forward the force of the gun.

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And if you weren't heavy enough, because you were such a small kid, the supervisor

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would S as you're lying down on your tummy and firing this gun, somebody

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would have to stand on your feet to stop you from being dragged forward by.

Speaker:

Well, the full wood coil of this gun, crazy stuff like

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that, that they were doing.

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Yeah, the British army when they introduced the SAA T decided to make a

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cadet version because it was a semiauto.

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So they took the gas parts out and the cocking handle and nurse ATS

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forward, and the cadets, the arms weren't long enough to reach that.

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So they tied a bit of string on the cocking man.

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So I had to cook it for every round and eight required, a fair amount

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of effort to pull it back to Kochot.

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And if you didn't pull it back hard enough, the spent round would

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inverse inside the breech and then go backwards into the breakage.

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It was a really, really bad design.

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These are the things that used to go on.

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Yeah.

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Amazing.

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So at King's school, something far more serious happened.

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One of the teachers attended a lockdown protest much, and he was saying.

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What do we think of that?

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What do you think?

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A teacher being sanct for attending the lockdown protest March.

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And there was proof of it because it was in his social media stuff.

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And he'd said something like, I don't believe in living in fear.

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I don't believe the propaganda.

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I do not believe in unjust hacer raced.

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I stand for all students.

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I stand for all families who are stranded, isolated and suffering.

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I stand for freedom.

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I love you.

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He got sacked.

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So the concern is that somebody who doesn't believe in a virulent

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disease is in close contact with large numbers of people every day.

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Okay.

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So he was a risk because he was well.

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So that's the argument.

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It's more because he was he'd likely to spread it because he would

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be unlikely to take precautions.

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Is that the reasoning here?

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I don't know that that was their reasoning, but that would be my reasoning.

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Okay.

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I've I've, I've heard of people on mine sites being sacked at the weekend

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because the boss drove past and saw them mowing the lawn in thongs and said

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you have the wrong attitude to safety.

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You're a liability on my mind side.

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Really?

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Yes.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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So I've heard of people driving onto sites with a ladder in their Ute,

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and the guy's saying turn around and not coming on here with a ladder.

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Those things are dangerous.

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Like we use cherry pickers here if we need to get off high on anything.

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Yeah.

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But I don't know a teacher unrelated to his work.

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Who was he?

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A maths teacher.

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English teacher.

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Could he still do his job?

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Was that affecting the way he performed his job?

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I'm not so sure about that one.

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I don't think as long as he was teaching from behind a glass screen, is that

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really an argument to say that he was more likely to transmit the disease?

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What if there were some medical tests that said, oh, this person's more likely

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to be a super spreader than another one?

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Would you say that's a reason to sack them?

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No.

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I mean, I just all to move them to a job where they weren't in contact

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with large numbers of people.

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I just think it's a bit rough.

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That one, I just don't think it's associated with the job.

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What do you think?

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What's that shot?

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What does he teach it?

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Didn't say.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Brainwash, the kids are not, I think he was just a liability in terms of

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he would not take suitable precautions that would make him considerably

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more likely to, to bring the virus into school and spread it apparently

Speaker:

until recently where they even like putting in proper measures for schools.

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Like I said, I visited a school two weeks ago and the assistant principal

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loves, he said, you could take your Moscow off because apparently

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we're immune lull like as dark.

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Yeah, no, but a lot of the students, it's not mandated that they wear masks.

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So I don't know, you know, if his job was to teach medical safety procedures,

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maybe he's inadequate for the job.

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But if he's with assistant normal teacher, I just don't think that's right myself.

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Cause it's, it's, like we say in a religious school, a teacher who teach

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math, what's their job to teach math.

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It doesn't matter whether they're religious or not.

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So that we look, we concern ourselves with the function that they do.

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And we object to religious schools wanting to sack them because

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they're not of the right faith.

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We say that's irrelevant to the job you're doing.

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Yeah.

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Just sort of thing to a large extent, the fact that he's an antilock lockdown

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guy and attended an illegal protest.

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Yeah.

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But Hey, if he, if he was a, if he was a drunk driver, should he be sacked?

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Just cause you breach the law.

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I mean, obviously if you're a kiddy Fiddler, you get sacked,

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but if he had committed.

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Just because you've broken the law.

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It doesn't mean you're suitable teacher.

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I think it'd be good if we could stop dealing with like people's anxiety around

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the way that people are suffering and this like, going back to what we're

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saying before about like freedom fighters and this like be good to do like proper

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research and explore the social impacts.

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This is having on people.

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And, and if, if there is possible treatments vehicle, they are fearful

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enough to go out and protest.

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There are people who are being intubated by nurses in America who still don't

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believe that they've got COVID.

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Yes.

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COVID is a lie.

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Doesn't that mean we are missing something and we aren't

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tackling that side of things as.

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I forgot to forward onto you.

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Did you see the report of a YouTube influencers?

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Who'd been approached by a, an advertising company and asked, I've

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seen that a few weeks ago where they offered goodies if they were

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to promote things and offered money.

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Yeah.

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And some of these influences did a bit of homework about who this organization

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was and, and it all looked a bit bogus and weird and ended up in Russian sort

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of websites or something like that.

Speaker:

So to their credit, a number of influences said, no.

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Yes, but it's interesting to say.

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And there's been the anti lockdown protests were being

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organized out of Germany.

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And I believe the intelligence community is investigating

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links to foreign government.

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Sorry.

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I was going to say, there's a question of whether this is deliberate disinformation.

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It's a lot of gang around.

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But Jay, you were talking about just people, just not believing the truth

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as such, I think is what you're kind of getting at with like this guy,

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this, like, for example, this teacher based on his comments, truly thought

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he was correct factually about things.

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And sometimes this, I've got a story here from vice, which isn't

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the world's greatest source, but they claim that they contacted this

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person and verified the information.

Speaker:

So so you know, it's not the world's greatest source for this story, but

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it's a good story and it's frightening if it's true and it just might be true.

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So Bill's final semester at Marjory Stoneman Douglas high

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school in Parkland, Florida.

Speaker:

Was already difficult enough.

Speaker:

He was part of the final graduating class of survivors of the 2018 shooting.

Speaker:

And that had all just mark.

Speaker:

The third anniversary of the day, 17 people were killed nine of whom were

Speaker:

Bill's classmates, but bill had to deal with his father's daily accusations

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that the shooting was a hoax and that the shooter bill and all his classmates

Speaker:

were paid pawns in a grand conspiracy organized by some shadowy fours.

Speaker:

Poor bill says, he'd say stuff like this straight to my face.

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Whenever he's drinking, he'd say you're a real piece of work to be able to sit

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here and act like nothing ever happened.

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If it wasn't a hoax shame on you for being part of it and putting your family

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through it too, and builded this post.

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And as I say, I can't guarantee exactly a hundred percent.

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This is a true story, but quite possibly a parent of.

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A kid who witnessed a school shooting and saw all his classmates killed,

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just denying it ever happened.

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It's imaginable that it is true.

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Unfortunately, have you yet watched beyond the curve?

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No, what's that?

Speaker:

It's about flat earthers and so they're, they're searching for the truth.

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They're there, you know, that they really truly want to know the truth

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and they perform an experiment and the experiment gives them the answer

Speaker:

that the earth is round and they are frantically searching for reasons

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why the experiment failed, because it didn't give them the answer that they

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expected rather than accepting it.

Speaker:

And moving on, it was the levels that these people will go to, to

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keep hold of a belief that is.

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So much a part of them.

Speaker:

And I don't think that there's anything you could do to change their minds.

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And this is the problem with the, the, the, the COVID deniers is even

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if you gave them COVID, even if they couldn't breathe, they would still

Speaker:

think that it was something else.

Speaker:

There's nothing you could do that could prove to them.

Speaker:

That COVID was railing is, is just, that has the impact that it does.

Speaker:

Some of them tint around some of them sail, I was wrong, but you're right.

Speaker:

There are still a number who are dying and their deathbed.

Speaker:

And it's so sad for the medical staff to witness as these people still continue

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to refuse to acknowledge that it's COVID this got them at the end of the day.

Speaker:

And the people that care about them.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'd have tried to raise it with them, try to a whole range of things.

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I think there is a mental health aspect.

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It's a baseless, but I just think people are really anxious and really suffering.

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Yeah.

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The BBC actually interviewed the son of a well-known UK conspiracy

Speaker:

theorist, who has her own YouTube channel with thousands of followers.

Speaker:

And he was saying, I just can't talk to her anymore.

Speaker:

Hanrahan, who is like a war correspondent.

Speaker:

He's been into lots of dangerous places.

Speaker:

He's doing episodes.

Speaker:

Like he's become quite a long time, been doing a lot of research on Q and L.

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And so he does a weekly podcast as well.

Speaker:

So like for it to Ghana attention from someone like him, who's been in.

Speaker:

No frightening situations to be alarmed enough to be doing that.

Speaker:

It's just like, woo.

Speaker:

Is he debunking that the, all the cute clearance is kind of like a jog

Speaker:

each week, he takes a different angle.

Speaker:

So he kind of explains to ordinary humans about like, so for instance, one of

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the things I didn't know about Q1 on is that there is a utopia, so if they will

Speaker:

get to the other side and then they'll all be, you know, ridiculously wealthy.

Speaker:

And so I didn't know last week he did an episode on how it's

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really gaining traction in Japan.

Speaker:

right.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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So just sort of this meme that said the irony of auntie, the irony of anti-vaxxers

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saying they don't want to be part of an experiment, is that without realizing

Speaker:

it, they're now part of the control.

Speaker:

You'd want that to have a date?

Speaker:

I can't, we just show them that, that name alone, like to vote

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anti-vax in an upcoming election because dear listener, you've got

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lots of opportunity if you wish to.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Sadly, there are lots.

Speaker:

So kicking off with Clive Palmer in the United Australia party, the billionaire

Speaker:

magnate has been led to boxing and running radio advertisements with misleading

Speaker:

messages about the safety of vaccines.

Speaker:

So that's one choice for you.

Speaker:

If you want to vote anti-vax you could go for the informed medical

Speaker:

options, party, alarm bells ring.

Speaker:

When you hear that title, a be informed medical options party

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they'd been active in organizing the anti-vaccine Andy lockdown protests

Speaker:

since the start of the pandemic.

Speaker:

Look for them on your Senate ballot sheet, Pauline Hanson's one nation.

Speaker:

So she's towed the line of not being explicitly anti-vaccine while adopting

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messaging used by anti-vaccine campaigners saying Pauline's a bit of a dog Whistler

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when it comes to these anti-vaccine things, not outright saying it, but using

Speaker:

all of the right terminology and phrasing.

Speaker:

There's another group reignite democracy Australia.

Speaker:

So they're anti-vaccine anti mask and COVID denial is group born out of

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Victoria's 2020 lockdowns that has links to mainstream conservative politicians.

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It's nice to see nut group, not bad groups coming out of

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Victoria and not just Queensland.

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Every light, the fire or light the fire or whatever his name is.

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We've had our fair share.

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I agree, but it's just nice to read Victoria.

Speaker:

in the chat room on behalf of all Victorians, would you like to.

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Yeah, you call us Hicks up here, but seems like you're generating

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your fair share of nonsense down.

Speaker:

There is the great Australian party recruited conspiracy theorists,

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superstar, Pete Evans, as a candidate.

Speaker:

That's the greatest Dahlia party its policies take cues from anti-vaxxers

Speaker:

means yes, paleo P and they are into anti-vax is men's rights, activists,

Speaker:

sovereign citizen movement, but they faced a recent setback as the ISE

Speaker:

threatened to deregistered because they are unable to prove they had 500 members.

Speaker:

And then you've got people like Craig Kelly, he'll be an independent, you've

Speaker:

got fringes of the coalitions, such as George Christiansen, Alex antic,

Speaker:

Erica bed's, Matt Canavan, Jared Renick of all flirted with messages

Speaker:

and policies popular with anti-vaxxers.

Speaker:

And so lots of opportunity there.

Speaker:

If you'd like to vote, anti-vax at an upcoming election.

Speaker:

What else I got here?

Speaker:

So rise up Australia was the party I was thinking of.

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Right.

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Which was a Melbourne preacher is with catch the fire ministries or something.

Speaker:

It eventually got dissolved, but he was in hot water for some, I can't

Speaker:

remember what it was, but so rise.

Speaker:

So they rise up.

Speaker:

Eventually went down, did it basically, but yeah, there, there are jobs, Victorian

Speaker:

political parties is what I'm saying.

Speaker:

When you still have somebody defend Victoria.

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Cause we're just going to bag him this.

Speaker:

It was like if we get the chance.

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Yeah.

Speaker:

Oh, prominence is the guy you're thinking of is Danny now prize moron.

Speaker:

There we go.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

In the New York times isn't is an article by Alan McCloud about and yield

Speaker:

times, and basically sign that the Neal times as bagged the Chinese vaccines.

Speaker:

And so the New York times has relied on indeed when you're innuendo to

Speaker:

discredit China, it's headline reading, they relied on Chinese vaccines.

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Now they're battling outbreaks and the article profiled a trio of

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countries by rain, Mongolia, and the Seychelles that had bought an

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administered Sinai farm and Sinai vac.

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But in saying that instead of freedom from the coronavirus, all three countries

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are now battling a surge in infection.

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But what the times did not inform readers was that the vast majority of serious

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or deadly cases in those countries happen to unvaccinated individuals.

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And it gives it a sort of expos.

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I, that it was really a hit job by the New York times on these vaccines, which

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are not so bad and not so unusual.

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And that they're just your run of the mill vaccine based on the normal principles.

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And when an institution like the New York times bags, a Chinese vaccine,

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then that just transfers over to create vaccine hesitancy amongst

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Americans for their own vaccines.

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When I hear those stories.

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So their, their willingness to be so anti-China and pick on

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the Chinese vaccine has other effects that might not be so good.

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So that was that YouTube banned sky news for a week because it

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was a spreader of Corona virus.

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Misinformation.

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Can you not see the tears on my cheeks?

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They've been creeping up on my YouTube feed and I don't know

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how, because my algorithms got to be not interested in sky news.

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I'm glad you just hesitated over a sky news live stream of a, of a you know,

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the chief health officer reports or any like never, never watched one of those

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or this display things that get you angry actually gets you more engaged

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and keeps you on YouTube for longer.

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They're very clever.

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They've got a very, very clever YouTube sort of thing happening.

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So, you know, that's good.

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At least they're off the ears.

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Clearly cares about us, at least for the next seven days until I let them back.

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I think listening to the chase, you know, how often quite the chaser report

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for their headlines and fake stories.

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They've got a great podcast if you know that.

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Yup, absolutely.

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It's great.

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It's almost daily.

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It's like 20, 25 minutes.

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The listener, or how are they remit recommend checking out the chaser

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or is it actually use a little bit?

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Can you use mostly?

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Yeah, but really good on stuff you listen to this podcast will love it.

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So yeah.

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The chase of podcasts recommended you were talking about I social media

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person who had a lot of influence.

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We just talked about that early or maybe it was in the chat room.

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Yeah.

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There's a guy called Joseph from the color.

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And he he's, he's been known amongst skeptics for many years.

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He is natural use or one of those, he sells snake oil.

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Basically.

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He makes he's a millionaire because of the anti-science and

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anti-medicine that he sells.

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Yes.

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So he's published over 600 articles on Facebook that casts

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down on COVID-19 vaccines.

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And his claims have been widely echoed on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

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And he's part of the disinformation.

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Doesn't a list of 12 people responsible for sharing 65% of all

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anti-vaccine messaging on social media.

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So this is the theory that this dirty dozen, including

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this dirty doctor dirty Dr.

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McCollough.

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Responsible for 65% of the anti-vaccine messaging that originates with these

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guys and then just washes around the internet with other people sharing and

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passing it on, which is interesting that 12 people have and Facebook

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won't count the misinformation against them once it's been reshared.

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Right.

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Okay.

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So if he shares it to a thousand people and they then share it on

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and it becomes a million views, they only count the thousand people who

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viewed it originally against him.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So what else we got?

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So he's a pioneer in the anti-vaccine movement.

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He's a master of capitalizing on periods of uncertainty.

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And what he does is does lots of AB experiments in terms of posts.

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He's incredibly keen on how things go viral.

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He's got.

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All these people working for him, pasting staff, and he creates this

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fear and uncertainty and then shuffles people off to his new age medicine

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solutions and makes a fortune from it.

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And that's sort of characters, one of the sort of characters

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floating around on the internet.

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David Wolf was another one that I haven't seen recently, but lots of people, he

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had very inspirational messages that lots of people shared far and wide.

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And then you went and followed him and got exposed to all sorts of pseudoscience.

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Bullshit.

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Right, right.

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Craig in the chat room says I spent, I suspect Joe and I frequent

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similar skeptic groups podcast.

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Sounds like he's on your, you're on the same book list by looks of it.

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What else have we got in the chat room?

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Alan Jones.

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Yeah.

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Alan Jones.

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I don't, what is it with?

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What's the motivation for God, like Alan Jones to be so, you know, pro

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hydroxy chloroquine, an anti-vaccine and I think the Andy isn't it like?

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Oh, who's that the American who got sued for the Sandy hook shootings.

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Yeah.

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Alex Jones.

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Yeah.

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Who said it's a character he plays basically it gets him more views.

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More lessons.

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Yep.

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So it's actually nothing to do with ideology.

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It is just, he knows it'll be popular and therefore it's eyeballs.

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Right.

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I can't speak to his heart.

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But certainly it's a it's a winning solution, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think the other part of it is that these guys just have a version to

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collective action where we are trying to get people to act collectively

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in the Goodwill of the community.

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And they just see the danger in that, in what it might lead to in other areas

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that they don't want that to happen.

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There's a little bit of that in there as well, but I think you're right.

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Show is just, it's just numbers and they know that they'll get

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the viewership and they've got a contract that will reward them.

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The more viewers they have and saying the most outrageous things will just

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get them more of those eyeballs.

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I think you probably right.

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Good explanation.

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Let's see.

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Okay.

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What else do I have here?

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In terms of traveling now, difficult to leave Australia.

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It's not easy.

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You've got to be you can only quality over a million dollars a year.

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Well, a liberal party member, technically according to the government, you can only

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qualify for essential overseas travel.

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If your travel is part of the response to the COVID-19 outbreak, including

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the provision of aid, if it's for your business or employer, if you are traveling

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to receive urgent medical treatment, not available in Australia, if you're

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traveling on compassionate, local, per, or compelling grounds, you're traveling for

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urgent or unavoidable personal business, your travel is in the national interest.

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It's just hard to see how Brian and Bobby.

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Good.

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Find a reason to head to Mexico and do some preaching in amongst

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that stuff, their business.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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Maybe it's your business.

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Well, you know you know, Jesus doesn't sleep during a pandemic.

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It's very important to spread the word.

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Yeah.

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He's not asleep at the wheel.

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Right.

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Finally.

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Finally let me get this one up on the screen as well, which this is a table.

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The number of close friendships that Americans have has declined

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over the past several decades on the left-hand side in dark blue is 2021.

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And on the right-hand side in the lighter blue is 20 years ago, 1998.

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It's asking sort of the Banes there of how many friends have you got?

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0 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 to nine, 10 or more.

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And 20 years ago people just had more friends and you can look at the table

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and there'll be in the show notes, but essentially 10% I think of, I

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think these are in 10% gradients.

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Let me just see.

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And that's 12%, 12% of them say that they have no friends.

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Whereas previously that was only three.

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And only 13% have 10 or more friends, whereas previously 33%, it's a striking

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figures that the number of friends, people have in America as declined rapidly.

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So more than one in 10 Americans reports having no friends at all.

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And the sad part is that people see this as just normal now.

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So it's an interesting statistic.

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We don't see these things for Australia.

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There's always an American stuff that I find for this.

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But so yeah, the number of friends people have is rapidly declining.

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That can't be good.

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A lot of psychology research is weird.

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So Western educated industrial, rich, something can't remember what it stands

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for, but then there's an argument that a lot of the psychological papers and

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effects may not replicate across cultures.

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Right?

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Because, because the easiest group to experiment on are university

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students who are beholden on their professors for a pass and

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therefore volunteer for experiments.

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Yes.

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The sort of people who are going to be hanging around a university that

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are psychology on a student can crab.

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Yes.

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Don't represent that's true Delaware that came from, I should

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maybe look that up, but Riley is reporting being lonely though.

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I don't know.

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This was a survey of 2000 U S adults.

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The Gallup survey was conducted over the telephone.

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So anyway, that's where I came across that one.

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And finally, remember we spoke about how they were the us Catholics were saying,

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well, these politicians who believe in abortion law we should withhold the

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Eucharist and not allow them to have the body and blood of Jesus anymore.

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So the church official who'd denied.

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It wanted to deny Biden.

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Joe Biden, communion has recently resigned in a sex scandal.

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Surprise, surprise.

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All right.

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Well, that's an hour and a half whereabouts and what's

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happened in the chat room.

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From when typing in, can we predict the limits of SARS cov two variants

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in their phonetic consequences into Google first results.

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Okay.

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What is that about the title of the paper?

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I'm guessing.

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Why don't we go?

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I can't copy it.

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All right.

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Okay.

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What happens when you Google it?

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Well, I'm just trying to find the Sage link, right?

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Sage is the UK government advisory.

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While you're looking on that, I'll just refer that next week

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briefly, which is next week.

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Wednesday is a public holiday in Brisbane, the show holiday for the

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show that's just been canceled.

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We could still be in lockdown.

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Don't know what's going to happen.

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Thursday is the big Dane court case.

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I have been I've never spent so much mental energy on so few words, but

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the words, religious denomination or society basically I've been pondering

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them so heavily in the last few days.

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My head hurts and I wake up at night at two in the morning.

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I go, ah, religious denomination.

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What does it mean?

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I I, I switch where I go.

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I think I've got it.

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I think I've got this case.

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I am going to win and then I read a bit more and I go, Hm,

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actually, that wasn't so good.

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Maybe I'm not going to win.

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And then I read something else to go.

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Yeah, I've definitely got it.

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So that's all happening Thursday next week.

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And.

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Court cases keep going locked down or no locked down provided

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one of the main players like me.

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Doesn't become sick with COVID or something, you know, it'll happen.

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Lots of media interest as happening.

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We may, I don't think I'll podcast Tuesday night.

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I've just got too much happening in my head.

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But if successful, we may not even know the result on Thursday because

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the judge might just say, I'm going to reserve my decision and tell

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you about it in a few weeks time.

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So he may not know, but I think next week will probably be a live stream on

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the Thursday night where I will talk about what happened as best as I can.

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And it may even be a film crew in here as well with progress with me.

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And so.

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Just don't know.

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So it's scary.

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It's tricky.

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It's stressful.

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And I can't wait for it actually to be, to tell you the truth

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because I've had enough of it.

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It's just all consuming, isn't it.

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And anyway, rest assured giving it the best shot I can.

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And I've had some good help from some pro bono barristers.

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And I've got a lodge something tomorrow, which is basically my

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final legal submission and we will see what happens on the day.

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It'll be a very interesting memorable moment in the life of Trevor bell

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and my, when I eventually pass away and the eulogies have written sure.

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There'll be a few made of whatever happens about Thursday

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next week and the result of it.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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So.

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I don't know whether it'll be, look, keep an eye on the Facebook

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page if it's possible to live.

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If the court streams it or, or if there's news will play something there.

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So so anyway, we'll see what happens, but that's exciting

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and scary at the same time.

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So very interesting, Joe, did you mend to see what happens

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when you Google that thing?

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What that Bron Roman mentioned?

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Was there anything else?

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Oh yeah, yeah.

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Sorry.

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I found the paper, right.

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And sorry, other side, this side.

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That's the QR code, which should take you directly to the paper.

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And what is it?

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What is this paper?

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It's a paper by a bunch of UK scientists.

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Yeah.

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That talk about.

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Talk about possible long-term evolution of COVID.

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One hypothesis is for example, with similar co-morbidity mortality to other

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zoonotic Corona viruses, such as , which has 10% case fatality or MERS cov, which

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has a 35% case fatality, which is where they're getting the one in three dying.

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Okay.

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So they're saying it's possible that it might in the future

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evolve to be this right.

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Okay.

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It's getting scarier.

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Okay.

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So, all right, we'll do listener we're done and dusted for another episode.

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Keep an eye on the Facebook page.

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Probably appear in a newspaper or two on Thursday next week, no matter what

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the results and we'll possibly live stream Thursday night, possibly with.

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Fingers crossed at all, guys.

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Well, talk to you then.

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Bye for now.

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Yeah, that's a good night from him.

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