Jim Artman, a former US Army Ranger, combat veteran, and current biohacker discusses his story of using extreme resilience to overcome the traumas of war both on and off the battlefield. He discusses the utilization of nutrition and mindset to overcome post traumatic stress disorder and the various psychological impacts of war.

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Chris Coll:

jim:

Thanks,

Chris Coll:

here.

jim:

Chris. So like I said, my name is Jim Artman. And my background, I served eight years in the Army, most of which is serving as a sniper and sniper school instructor with two tours in combat. And Like you said, Chris, it's been 20 years since the beginning of the Iraq war. And I read an article in the New York Times about how kids are learning about this in school. And suddenly I felt old, that the war that I fought in is in textbooks

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

now. So, just kind of reflect on that. you know, discuss, you know, sort of what my thoughts were then versus now. you know, and kind of how that impacted me. So, looking forward to our discussion.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, for sure. So honestly, let's just let's go back to the very beginning. I guess like, I mean, what was your childhood like it? And you know, were you were you happy as a kid?

jim:

Um, you know, it wasn't great, honestly. I uh...

Chris Coll:

and

jim:

Do what?

Chris Coll:

yeah just go into it no i said just go into it i didn't

jim:

Oh,

Chris Coll:

mean to interrupt you

jim:

yeah, I mean, it was okay. I, uh... I'm kind of drawn. song. Uhhh...

Chris Coll:

No, you totally thought I didn't understand. I mean.

jim:

I mean, I had a relatively normal childhood. I don't really know how I want to talk.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, I mean, again, to everything

jim:

Yeah.

Chris Coll:

we can cut out, I'm sure we see I'm gonna go through this, we can just cut out this whole section. So

jim:

I mean, growing up,

Chris Coll:

just discuss the things that

jim:

my grandfather, he fought in the Korean War in the Air Force and served on B-29 bombers. And from a pretty young age, he was sort of grooming me to go into the Air Force, would take me to air shows and Dayton back when they could still fly over you and break the sound barrier over the crowd. I think a C35

Chris Coll:

I'm out.

jim:

crashed into the crowd, ruined that for everyone. But, you know, so for a long time growing up, I was super excited about the prospect of being a fighter pilot. I just thought there was not much cooler than going to Mock Jesus in an F-18, you know. But my uncle... died when I was 14 and before he died, you know, he saw my grandfather was always, you know, kind of pushing me in that direction to go into the air force and fly and he said, you know, you don't, you don't have to do whatever your grandpa says, you know, and he had this book about army Rangers and it was showing me, you know, these pictures of guys jumping out of airplanes and stuff. And he just thought they were the greatest. And. You know, died, you know, we were pretty close.

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

And, you know, I just sort of decided pretty easily pretty quickly. I was like, you know, what, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go do that. You know, I want to I'm gonna go be an Army Ranger. So that's what I did. I enlisted with a Ranger contract went straight from infantry basic training airborne school to Ranger Doctrination Program and

Chris Coll:

Yeah, that's awesome. So do you want to talk about, you know, how that, I guess, were your aspirations always, you know, about joining the military? Or did you have other goals when you were growing up as well? Or was Ranger or Air Force, was that your only your only like ideas that you had for, you know, what you're going to do basically?

jim:

Um, yeah, I mean, pretty much from a real young age, I knew that I was going to join the military. Um, I was very interested in cooking. Uh, still to this day, sometimes I consider, you know, maybe opening a restaurant. I love to cook, but the restaurant industry is messy. to take on. But I do love to cook for myself, my family and friends, you know, just having dinner parties and stuff like that. You know, since getting out, you know, really focusing on how to do that to, you know, optimize my nutrition kind of adds like a whole other level of fun for healthy fats and as much vitamins and minerals as I can. And knowing that I'm doing that for my family, mostly without them knowing it, you know, just adding lots of olive oil

Chris Coll:

Nice.

jim:

or spices, fresh herbs and things I know will benefit their health, but it also tastes awesome. You know, it's, it's fun for me. So, you know, I think that when I was really young, when I first like, oh, maybe, you know, I'll open my own restaurant someday. That's pretty much it. You know, but when I was, I enlisted when I was 17 years old before I started my senior year of high school and I remember telling the recruiter. I want to do the hardest thing that I can and I want to kill people. That was sort of my mindset back then. It's like, I just wanted to smoke dudes and, you know, push myself and do something really challenging. But yeah, that's pretty much it.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, so you had basically had, you know, you had a crossroad between whether you wanted to be a chef or, you know, a Ranger Artman. And obviously you chose that Ranger out. Where did you serve and like how long in each unit or capacity were you serving in each unit?

jim:

Hey, let me stop you for a second. Um, I think you're looking at the wrong document.

Chris Coll:

Yeah. Oh shit.

jim:

Uhhh

Chris Coll:

This is episode

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

one, Jim

jim:

there's

Chris Coll:

Artman.

jim:

another one. Well. So all the questions that I put together are on a different document. It's titled 20th anniversary interview questions.

Chris Coll:

Oh, okay. Let me pull that over quick. No worries. Again, he's just gonna cut this out. Yeah, but you also, too, you were answering all these questions as we were going through this just now. And I was like, I wasn't even

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

reading

jim:

I think

Chris Coll:

that.

jim:

the beginning of it's kind of the same, but the one, the document that Milan made kind of diverges

Chris Coll:

Yeah,

jim:

from that.

Chris Coll:

yeah, let me just

jim:

But

Chris Coll:

pull

jim:

I want

Chris Coll:

up.

jim:

to make

Chris Coll:

I

jim:

sure to ask these

Chris Coll:

see.

jim:

questions, because that's what I would be asking everybody else.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, okay. So, when we just go from the top and we can... or you

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

want to...

jim:

I think that's fine. Let's

Chris Coll:

here.

jim:

start with the question.

Chris Coll:

Okay. Yeah, that's very, we'll go from the top. Okay. So the first question I'm gonna do is how many years did you end up serving

jim:

Sure.

Chris Coll:

and where did you serve? Is that good? All right, perfect. Right here.

jim:

Well, I already said that. Why don't you start

Chris Coll:

All

jim:

with

Chris Coll:

right, so

jim:

the

Chris Coll:

how-

jim:

second question. Sorry.

Chris Coll:

Okay. Three, two, one, go. So how many deployments did you have total?

jim:

Two total deployments. The first one I did was much shorter with first Ranger Battalion. The second one I did was during the big push or invade, you know, I can't remember what they called it exactly, but they were doing 15-month deployments. So I did a 15-month there with 3-7 infantry and third ID.

Chris Coll:

Gotcha.

jim:

So when I left Ranger Battalion and went there, I had a scroll on one shoulder or on both shoulders, surround sound is what they used to call it. And when I was in the office signing into the battalion, the Sergeant Major was there and he saw my combat scroll and CIV, which is Combat Infantry Badge. He was like, you know, you have any experience as a sniper or working with snipers? I sort of lied and said, yes, because

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

I knew that's exactly where I wanted to go. Um, so he was like, all right, you're going to the snipers. So I went there and had to try out and, you know, made it to try outs. And within a few months was sent to sniper school. over the sniper team before.

Chris Coll:

That's awesome. You wanna talk more about that, like your experience as a sniper?

jim:

Sure, I mean I loved it honestly. You know, for me. What I loved about being a sniper and working with snipers is, you know, first and foremost, we were infantrymen. But, you know, we were also, we had to be a very self-sufficient unit. So, you know, half of us were EMT trained. We could do call for fire missions, you know, proficient at everything infantry, you know. was that. And then the other thing I liked about it was the autonomy, really. You know, we were trusted by commanders to make our own battlefield decisions, plan our own missions. And the other thing I really loved about it was I spent a lot less time in vehicles. You know, the majority of or bad guys knew it, then I was doing something wrong. So, you know, being able

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

to hang out, collect battlefield intelligence, engage targets of opportunity, you know, without anybody knowing that we were there, was a lot more attractive to me than waiting to get blown up in a convoy. So.

Chris Coll:

You know, definitely. Um, and what did you do when you, when you first got out of the military?

jim:

So the last three years that I was in, I worked at sniper schools and instructor and spent a lot of time in the woods. Sniper school, the Army sniper school at Fort Benning, Georgia. And I started getting really into mushroom hunting. I bought field guides and was starting to teach myself food and medicine. A lot of people think I'm always referring to drugs. I'm not. You know, you'd be hard pressed to

Chris Coll:

Yeah,

jim:

find a psilocybe

Chris Coll:

much right in

jim:

species

Chris Coll:

general.

jim:

of mushrooms in Fort Benning. But

Chris Coll:

haha

jim:

so, you know, I was just so enamored by the field of mycology and, you know, found and it was very therapeutic for me to spend all that time in the woods. So, you know, the and getting a PhD in Mycology and creating field guides on mushrooms sounded great to me. I also got really into permaculture, sustainable regenerative agriculture practice, and envisioned my life wearing some Liberty overalls, You know, just grow mushrooms, having people come out, teach them how to do that stuff, you know, just sounded like a idealistic way to live my life, you know. So I felt like I studied the...

Chris Coll:

Yeah, I mean, Apple's a great...

jim:

Do what?

Chris Coll:

I said Appalachian grid, like

jim:

Sure,

Chris Coll:

that whole

jim:

yeah,

Chris Coll:

thing was

jim:

absolutely.

Chris Coll:

permaculture, right? Like a very big

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

portion

jim:

later

Chris Coll:

of it,

jim:

on,

Chris Coll:

yeah.

jim:

I ended up starting a business and selling that stuff for other people. So, but so anyways,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

I, I went straight from the active duty military, uh, from Fort Benning into, uh, working on a degree in molecular biology, biochem at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. And, um, yeah, I loved it. I was doing. I sort of, I started with an environmental science major and quickly realized that, actually, I'm pretty sure I told the dean of that program that it felt more like a familiarization in science than an actual hard study of science. And so I ended up switching to molecular biology and did some epigenetics research while I was there.

Chris Coll:

Tell me tell me more about like your transition I guess from the military like how did your family take it? You know just like go into the details

jim:

Right,

Chris Coll:

like that.

jim:

so

Chris Coll:

I guess

jim:

when I got out, I was married at the time. I had been with my ex-wife for about 10 years. And it didn't take too long before, I really started to experience more advanced symptoms of PTSD. And I guess just being in college atmosphere, surrounded by people that I couldn't really relate to, it was probably part of that. And it wasn't too long after that where, I ended up going through a divorce. So that was pretty tough on me, kind of trying to transition out of the military, be a full-time college student, go through a divorce. We had a child together that was very young. She was born the year I got out. So I sort of started spiraling after that. list, to doing research, to barely being able to make it to class. So I started drinking a lot more. eating a lot of LSD. Yeah, I just, I was struggling and, you know, it got to the point to where it got so bad that I was suicidal. You know, I was frequently feeling like sticking a gun in my mouth, you know, it was awful. I was a shell of a human. And I really didn't want to move up to Ohio, which is where, raised, but there just really wasn't much there for me. I really enjoyed the south and I was exposed to much more than what the small town of Finley, Ohio could offer me, especially being somebody who was kind of a blowhard about organic sustainable agriculture being surrounded by corn and bean fields. And I don't know, it was just a much different atmosphere And I felt very out of place being there. So I ended up moving to East Tennessee where I had some other family, some other siblings that live there and kind of started to work on getting my feet back under me being there in the mountains.

Chris Coll:

And you mentioned the PTSD. Was there any specific things that you think caused it? Like any specific, or just a culmination of your experiences with what you experienced

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

in

jim:

so,

Chris Coll:

the war and everything?

jim:

you

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

know, war is pretty terrifying. There's plenty of guys that have been through a lot worse things than myself. I think within days of being there on my second appointment, there was a patrol base that was receiving sniper fire. And so we were called on to go investigate that. You know, as I went and looked at areas where I felt like they were probably being engaged from, based on my experience as a sniper, I did find some, you know, 7.62 casings laying on the ground, some bipod marks, but it was from a machine gun. And, you know, we got, we found ourselves caught between some fish farms. We were right up against the Euphrates River. And, yeah, so within days of arriving in country, you know, I ended up finding myself in a firefight. And, you know, it was pretty intense, you know, the first few months that we were there. I think that's pretty typical. Whenever a unit does a handoff to a new one, taking over an area of operation, the enemy likes to... Yeah, step up their game if you will, and try to intimidate, I guess, the new unit. That whole area was really

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

littered with IEDs, so, and that's both on the road and what they would call it dismount IEDs, or basically land mines. They are all over the place. Our units actually lost a couple men due to those, just walking. I went through some of that stuff, you know, was involved in a convoy that was, you know, where there was an IED blast, the vehicle directly in front of me. And you know, that was pretty catastrophic. Lost some guys then. So You know, I think just all of it had me pretty rattled. You know, I really don't like

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

loud noises. But, you know, pretty typical of most combat veterans, you know, the hypervigilance, for sure. You know, I feel like every time I go out somewhere, you know, I got to look at everybody, you know, stuff like that. how those types of things were affecting me in the way that they were. Just like

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

I went from being a staff sergeant, teaching sniper school, being very high functioning, married with a child, and then homeowner to, I could barely take care of myself, miserably.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, it's just that transition is like, it's just so difficult for so many veterans. And we're going to see like, people that we interview on here. But, you know, a lot of them have similar stories. And yeah, I mean, just keep talking about like, some instances that you think, you know, may have like caused this trauma, not saying like, from the war, I'm saying like, more like, reactions that or like PTSD related.

jim:

Ah, bueno. I'll tell you, there was a, so my little brother actually joined the military to a couple tours in Afghanistan. On his second tour, I was on the list as the person to be called from the, I can't remember what they call them, the wives, you know, sort of communicate what was going on with the unit on deployment. Do what?

Chris Coll:

Next to Ken next to Ken is it next

jim:

Well,

Chris Coll:

of

jim:

not

Chris Coll:

kin

jim:

really next

Chris Coll:

or

jim:

it

Chris Coll:

whatever?

jim:

can. Anyways, he had gotten into an engagement and I got a phone call letting me know that that had happened. He was okay. But you know, at that time, I'd been out of the military for about a year or so. And you know, it was really, really feeling it, you know, just not doing great. And

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

I had talked to my little brother into joining the military, you know, which, you know, I was at the height of my military career. it's great, you know, he wasn't doing much. He was in high school. Like, you know, do this for a little while, it's free college out of it, you know, see if you like it, if not get out and at least you'll buy yourself some time to figure it out, you know. So when I

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

heard that he you know, in a sense had been touched by war, you know, where he had to experience something like that. It was pretty devastating to me, honestly, because I never wanted that for him. So I carry a lot of guilt with me. And I remember going home, I had a roommate at the time when I was in college and this movie, he was watching this movie with Christian Bale, I can't remember the name of it, but

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

there was a scene of like really triggered me where this guy was talking about, you know, how awful deployment was for him. And I kind of started to freak out and ended up going out my front yard and was like having a full on panic attack, like snot coming out of my face, like just sobbing uncontrollably. And it took me a while, what seemed like a very long time to snap out of And I remember

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

in that moment being angry and feeling like... You know, I just, I was like, I just need to go back into it. You know, I was highly qualified to go serve in the same or similar capacity for, you know, contract companies overseas, you know, something like black water, triple canopy. and make great money. You know, I was like, maybe I should just go do that. But, you know, part of the reason I got out of the military was because I wanted to preserve more of the person than I feel like I am, you know, like I feel genuinely like I'm a very

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

kind individual. And I don't know, just living in that lifestyle where, you know, you're... surrounded by people that salivate over the idea of smoking somebody or shooting them in the face, you do sort of, I feel like, lose a part of yourself.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, you also grew there too, I feel like. Because I mean, like, as you said, when you were going into the military, you know, like, you literally, you literally wanted to go somewhere where you can smoke as many as you can, you know. And, you know, now you have, you obviously, you grew over that time that you're in there. And you had this mindset of, you know, now, like, you realize that maybe that person that you thought you wanted to be or that you thought you were is, you know, isn't there anymore. You know what I mean? Like, it affected you, I feel like. it's a good thing. I think everyone's different and the way you handle looking after yourself, you look for the resources. Obviously, we haven't talked about that yet in this podcast, but I know you personally, and obviously you've looked for the resources to help you because you are here right now. And a lot of people can't say that because they weren't able to overcome that PTSD. Like, seriously though, you should pat yourself in the back every single day because I couldn't imagine that and there's a lot of people that are out here because they were overcome by that as well.

jim:

Well, what I had realized in that moment, you know, when those feelings were coming up that I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go back to it was that

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

I was... Like the reason why that I think felt like was an attractive option for me in that moment was because it was easier than dealing with what I had been dealing with, you know, and I think I realized in that moment that it takes way more strength and courage to address feelings, to have feelings and to be vulnerable. And.

Chris Coll:

100%.

jim:

That was kind of like an epiphany-like moment for me. And I began to really focus on how to increase vulnerability for myself and incorporate that more so into my life. And to this day, I really believe that. Choosing to be vulnerable

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

is probably one of the most healing things that somebody can do. You know, that deep level of connection with yourself and somebody else trusting, you know, that much of yourself to other people without being afraid, I think is, you know, it's really important.

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

you know, intimate relationships with people, you got to select for that vulnerability.

Chris Coll:

No, 100%. It's also just being honest with yourself as well, I feel like. But so it's been 20 years now since the anniversary that we discussed the main podcast since the very beginning of the Iraq war. So what were you doing like the morning of 9-11 when the Twin Towers were being attacked on the news?

jim:

Yeah, I

Chris Coll:

Really,

jim:

do.

Chris Coll:

do you remember that?

jim:

So I was in my sophomore year of high school that year. And I think we were sitting in our homeroom between third and fourth period or whatever of school. And yeah, the teacher turned the TV on. And Yeah, there's smoke billowing out of the tower. And, you know, like everybody else, it's like sort of in shock disbelief. And I knew at that time that my plan was to go into the military. And I think I'd probably realize that. You know, this meant that I was going to be more likely to be in combat. I think though, being a couple of years out from graduating, I was more worried that I was going to miss out. Oh, wait, man, I hope it's still going on when I get in, you know.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, it lasted so long. That's the crazy thing. People that probably joined 10 years later from then on

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

were able to see combat.

jim:

yeah, it's wild.

Chris Coll:

It's crazy. What's even more wild is how does it make you feel knowing that kids are literally learning about this war that you fought in? When you were in school and obviously you were in combat during the IREC war. What do you think about that? Kids are learning about this IREC war that happened. What's your opinion on that,

jim:

I

Chris Coll:

Tick?

jim:

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

Even though it was that long ago, it still feels like yesterday. You know, I still remember. I don't know, almost everything, I guess. All the men that I worked with and experiences that we had together.

Chris Coll:

Thank you. Yeah, I know you touched base on it a little bit already, but what was like your last deployment like in Iraq?

jim:

Um, well, it was, it was, like I said, it was in, uh, the Musaib Escanaria area. And I had never heard of those places until I was going there. They called it, they referred to this area as the Sunni Death Triangle. And it was about a 30 to

Chris Coll:

here.

jim:

40 minute helicopter ride south of Baghdad on the Euphrates. The FOB, the forward operating base that we worked out of was basically just a giant power plant with a wall around it. The snipers and the scouts were actually, we had our own little living area on the opposite corner of the FOB from the whole rest of the battalion. And it was the only, we were the only ones that were living in like an actual hard stand building. I take

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

that back, the mortars were directly across the street and had their own building too. which had a courtyard and a yard. The river was there and there was a boat launch there. We used to climb up on the roof and tan and try to hit golf balls over the Euphrates. and You know, like I said, it was pretty violent when we first got there. You still there, Chris?

Chris Coll:

Yeah, I'm here, can you hear me?

jim:

Yeah, your video. There it is. Umm...

Chris Coll:

Yeah, it's kind of laggy on your end as well. It's weird.

jim:

Well, it does local recording, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Chris Coll:

of it.

jim:

Anyways, so when we first got there, the area north of the base was pretty heavily

Chris Coll:

on

jim:

defended

Chris Coll:

the page.

jim:

by... the enemy and it was

Chris Coll:

Thank

jim:

sort

Chris Coll:

you. Thank

jim:

of our

Chris Coll:

you.

jim:

main mission when we got there to do rock clearance and establish some patrol bases north of the fob and kind of run the enemy out of the area. Um, it was around the same time also that they had. initiated the what they called Sons of Iraq program. which really, we all hated it. Basically. created a situation to where military-age males were supposed to be maining checkpoints along the route to deter IED emplacement. As long as they're wearing a PT belt or a road guard vest or something to indicate to us that that's what they were doing because all of these men aren't. arriving around in our area of operation and there's dudes walking around with AKs, sometimes they wore a PT belt, sometimes they didn't, you know, and so trying to determine. who our enemy was, became that much more difficult. And, you know, of course, as you can imagine, a lot of those guys were, you know,

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

not our friends. You know, even though they were getting some form of payment every month for being willing to stand there, I'm certain that a lot of them were corrupt and, you know, not helping us, if you will. So. It was kind of a weird situation. But as a sniper, we spent a lot of our time just being sort of the eyes and ears of the commanders and their respective areas of operation. Oh. About, I don't know, three quarters of the way through that deployment, one of the infantry companies had... sustained some losses and really needed some leadership. And at that point in the appointment, I don't really know that anybody wanted us shooting anyone anyways. Just from a sort of hot-carts-in-minds

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

perspective, just sort of maintaining peace. Myself and a couple other sniper guys ended up going to Alpha Company and helping them out. And it was when I was with them where I was involved in a convoy where the vehicle in front of me was blown up and we lost some men. So.

Chris Coll:

Do you think that played the largest role in the PTSD that you sustained and just the mental injuries that you sustained throughout your own life?

jim:

I don't know,

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

it's hard to say. You know, that night we had an informant with us and he was supposed to be taking us to a cache site. None of us felt good about it. You know, it was, we were taking routes that were pretty sketchy. It was at night and You know, when it happened, I mean, it was, it happened directly in front of me. Um, you know, I sort of broke protocol. Like, you know, we train, you know, if a vehicle in front of you gets blown up.

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

In most cases, you back up if your vehicle is still working, you back up, get out of the kill zone, if you will, and don't immediately run up there because there could be somebody watching that could initiate a secondary blast, kill you as well. I pretty much did not care about that. I was immediately ran to the blast site and wanted to make sure those guys were okay. you know, coming around the side of the vehicle and seeing, you know, it was awful. You know, just seeing, you know, your friends. in pieces, hanging out of the vehicle. It was very shocking. But I remember setting my rifle down, taking my helmet off, and just taking this real deep breath and exhale as I got rid of feeling anything in that moment. I just stuffed it. So that way I could climb into that vehicle,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

survivors that were in the back of the MRAP. And yeah, the vehicle's on fire, there's battery acid burning and stuff. And, you

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

know, I ended up coughing up blood. I didn't even notice just because of the intensity of it. You know, the driver was crammed underneath the steering wheel, and we felt like there was no way that he was alive, but we tugged on his gear until we were able to get him out of there, and he was alive, you know? So we immediately started working on him. And, you know, it was just... It was pretty awful, but I don't know that I could say that that one experience really did me in. You know, just I think just being in constant danger for that long.

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

You know, when you're just, when you're driving down the road and every, every rock or every piece of trash looks like it's something that's going to kill you. I think the, the accumulation of that over time.

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

Pro, yeah,

Chris Coll:

Quiz-tol.

jim:

absolutely.

Chris Coll:

Were you injured yourself though from that experience? Or have you ever experienced any actual physical injuries during your

jim:

Mm-mm.

Chris Coll:

deployments

jim:

No, I was pretty lucky.

Chris Coll:

too? No?

jim:

Um,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

yeah, our, our, our sniper teams never got, uh, compromised, at least the ones that I was running. You know, I really cared more about getting my men home alive and myself home alive than I did anything else. So I did my best as a 21, 22 year old to make sound combat decisions.

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

Yeah.

Chris Coll:

wild honestly. Yeah that's the wildest

jim:

of getting

Chris Coll:

thing

jim:

us killed,

Chris Coll:

about it.

jim:

you know? uh

Chris Coll:

Would you say that you grew up faster than you think you would have because of the military? I'm sure that's probably a yes, but I'm just curious to see your take on it.

jim:

Oh, that's actually a good question. I'll say yes and no. Yes, in terms of, you know, I was a 21 year old planning sniper missions. You know,

Chris Coll:

Hahaha

jim:

that seems ridiculous. I'm 37 now. It's like, who the fuck lets a 21 year old plan sniper missions?

Chris Coll:

Yeah. Well, I'm sure you went back to like, you went back to school and like, yeah, Bowling Green, you see all these dipshits, like just partying their asses off. And like, you know, when you, when they were, when you were in there, like the footsteps, you know what I mean? Like you were, like you said, you were planning sniper missions while, you know, they're just playing beer pong

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

with their

jim:

I

Chris Coll:

frat

jim:

mean,

Chris Coll:

brothers, you know

jim:

whenever

Chris Coll:

what I mean?

jim:

I would see ROTC cadets at school, I would always be like, hey, man, don't let them take you alive.

Chris Coll:

Ha ha!

jim:

And yeah, so in that respect, sure, I did grow up a lot, you know, hard and fast, learning about leadership. And, you know, really just overcoming mental limitations. You know, sometimes that's a daily interface, you know, when you're on a tough run or

Chris Coll:

Yeah,

jim:

rock

Chris Coll:

thanks.

jim:

or literally anything you're doing in the military, you know, you're pushing yourself past that comfort zone where you hear that bitch sound in your head telling you you can't do anymore but you just keep going anyways. I'm grateful for that. But

Chris Coll:

Yeah,

jim:

on the other

Chris Coll:

let's

jim:

side

Chris Coll:

talk more

jim:

of

Chris Coll:

about

jim:

it,

Chris Coll:

that.

jim:

you know, a lot of people joke around that the military is like your mom and dad. You know, you're sort of shielded from... you know, what everyone else is going through as they leave high school, you know, where you have to, you don't have that mom and dad, you know, military like accountability. And it's up to you to have your own personal accountability and self discipline to achieve all the things that you want to. I don't know that without the military. 18, 19 year old that I would have had the self-discipline that I would have needed to get through college, you know, for example. Yeah,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

I was young and liked to party with my friends. So I think in that respect. You know, there's part of me that maybe didn't grow up in that way. If that makes any sense.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, no, definitely. And we touched on this a little bit earlier, but like, what was your first aha moment like in your life that you can remember where you learned like a valuable lesson about like what it really means to be resilient? Cause obviously this whole podcast, you know, it's about overcoming, you know, traumas and being your best version of yourself really. So like, what was that aha moment that you realize like, like your own definition of, of what resiliency like really is.

jim:

You know, it's hard to say what the first one was. I feel like I've had several, all coming from different aspects. But I think, you know, when I was really struggling in college with depression, PTSD symptoms, I guess I was studying molecular biology and stuff and very fascinated with that. But at the time, I didn't really care that much about human biology. I was more fascinated with mycology and solving problems of invasive species or things of agriculture, I guess. And it wasn't until I started having all this stuff going on with me. where I really wanted to use the skill sets that I was developing to figure out how to fix myself. I got started really getting into nutrition, mostly from like a cognition enhancing sort of perspective, you know, like trying to figure out how I could make my brain work better and faster. And sometime in there, I discovered Mark Hyman's book, Ultramind Solution, which was my first exposure ever to functional medicine. And after reading that book, you know, it made me realize that my health is completely in my control and you know, I don't have to rely on somebody else to do it for actually, I can't rely on somebody else to do it for me. If I do, I'll end up with disease before anybody helps me So that was an important distinction for me and it was very empowering to continue to investigate. How do you fix yourself? How do you discover the root cause of disease? And a lot of that's through food. You really fix your biology, fix your gut, reduce inflammation in your body and subsequently by not eating like a dipshit. And so I think that was really like the first sort of aha for me, it was like, okay, this is something that I have control over and I can do. Did I immediately do it? No. You know, maybe bits and pieces of it. I worked at a nutrition store could tell you something about all 9,000 products that were in that store. But, you know, I was still really struggling with my depression. Wasn't yet ready to take charge of my health in a way that would create the transformation that I really needed.

Chris Coll:

So would you say like, you like kind of like studying these different, you know, fields kind of like helped and like kind of like led to you learning how to heal from war

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

essentially?

jim:

absolutely. Once I discovered functional medicine, I was like, man, this

Chris Coll:

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Functional

jim:

is... Yeah, when I

Chris Coll:

medicine

jim:

discovered

Chris Coll:

is

jim:

that,

Chris Coll:

probably the best

jim:

I was

Chris Coll:

way

jim:

like,

Chris Coll:

to

jim:

man, this

Chris Coll:

describe

jim:

is amazing.

Chris Coll:

it.

jim:

Like I said before, when I was in the military, I became super fascinated with permaculture, regenerative, organic agriculture practices, because I understood... how the agricultural practice would impact your health. And so I was kind of already sort of on the leaning towards the hippie spectrum. I think that kind of happens to a lot of guys where they go from wanting to shoot people in the face to, you know what, maybe I should show out a little bit and eat a little LSD and eat more vegetables. You know, I just, I had developed this skill of being able to... understand fairly complicated science journal articles and it turned into a hobby for me really, just investigating what PTSD really is from a neuroscience perspective, understanding inflammation in the body, how to treat it. I've just kind of been obsessed with it ever since. I've been following Dr. Mark Hyman's work, still do. I was actually listening to his podcast earlier today. Mark is kind of my spirit animal.

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

Love that dude. It's funny too because he's he's also very much into regenerative agriculture, you know He got I think

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

he views regenerative agriculture is sort of The answer to all the downstream effects of chronic inflammatory disease in our country, so Yeah, I mean I just I've been completely fascinated with understanding how to fix PTSD with myself. Very passionate

Chris Coll:

Thanks for watching!

jim:

to share all that information with other people I have.

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

So that's pretty much been my main focus. I'm actually planning on finally going back to school, finishing that degree in biology and applying to med school. Hopefully, hopefully that all works out and pick up, you know, on that journey of my education. to help more people.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, no, 100%. I was gonna ask you too, like, I mean, obviously you've come a long way since when you first got out and you were really struggling and you've obviously learned to manage it, but do you still struggle with anything today, like to this day right now?

jim:

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

Because I mean, I never became obese or anything. But

Chris Coll:

You just

jim:

yeah,

Chris Coll:

became comfortable,

jim:

you

Chris Coll:

that's probably

jim:

know,

Chris Coll:

what

jim:

and

Chris Coll:

happened, you know?

jim:

with my lifestyle, you know, not being what it should be, all the inflammation came back in. And with all the extra stress of being a business owner, found myself back to where I was before, you know, fighting off those feelings of depression

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

and anxiety. Intrusive suicidal thoughts sometimes, you know, so Fortunately I'm back to You know taking very good care of myself and

Chris Coll:

Yeah, now we get to actually help other

jim:

Yes,

Chris Coll:

people

jim:

absolutely.

Chris Coll:

take care of themselves too. I think that's the biggest thing

jim:

It's,

Chris Coll:

out of this.

jim:

but you know, I think it's, it was a good lesson for me to learn to see that. You know, that's a requirement. You know, that's part of being resilient is you

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

have to take care of yourself. And it's really the easiest part of it because you have control over it. You know, there's not this like weird

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

thing that's happening that you don't have control over, you do. And once you do take control, make the decision, the choice to take care of yourself like you know that you should, everything else becomes a little bit easier. Now granted, if I'm driving down the interstate and there's an extremely loud noise that happens, I'm probably gonna freak out a little bit.

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

I haven't necessarily figured out how to fix all that yet, but I don't wake up feeling like off myself anymore. I love getting out of bed. And I have a lot more energy to do the things that I want to, you know. And that's

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

what's really most important, is just to be happy. So I'm grateful for all

Chris Coll:

No,

jim:

of those experiences.

Chris Coll:

100%. You can't perform

jim:

What's

Chris Coll:

at those

jim:

up?

Chris Coll:

levels. I'm saying you can't perform at those high levels if you're not happy. It's

jim:

Absolutely.

Chris Coll:

like impossible. It really is. But honestly, I'm sure people have asked this before, but looking back, what is your opinion on the Iraq war now that it's been so long?

jim:

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

And sheesh, you know,

Chris Coll:

Jeez,

jim:

people dying

Chris Coll:

yeah.

jim:

constantly, understaffed, overworked for extremely long period of time. You know, that can be incredibly stressful and traumatic, you know, so it doesn't matter necessarily what the source of trauma, everybody will experience trauma in their life. You know, that's just, it's part

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

of it. But, you know, I think very few people... have somebody necessarily connect all these dots to, you know, so that way it becomes common knowledge to where everybody understands like, okay, if I experienced something traumatic or stressful, here's what I need to do to overcome that adversity, you know, so that way it doesn't result in long form. disorder like PTSD, you know.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, and from your whole experience in the military, not just the Iraq War and your two tours there, but your whole experience in the military, what would you say is the most important thing that you learned from that experience?

jim:

Um... overcoming mental limitations, honestly. Just, you know, like I said earlier, just putting in those reps, day in and day out, like

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

ignoring that quit sound in your head and... You know, that's it's it's translatable into literally every aspect of your life. You know, I remember being in college like I was never some smart kid in high school. I didn't give a fuck. Like I took a freshman science class my senior year. Yeah. Um, I had three study halls. Like I did not care. And pretty much my entire life leading up to that point, it felt like I was an student, you know, our average person in terms of intelligence goes. And, you know, and then so when I started college, I approached it with the same mindset that I had developed in the military, which is, you know, extreme personal accountability and, you know, not letting anything, no matter how difficult it seems, being able to pursue it, you know, being non deterministic, if you will, about my ability to literally do anything. And so as I did that in college, you know, very quickly. you know, people were recognizing me as being really smart. And I'm like, it's pretty relative, you know? I just fucking try harder than you guys do. You know? Oh.

Chris Coll:

there.

jim:

But, you know, I mean, it's true, you know, literally anything, if you just keep going and don't quit, you can do whatever you want.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, I say it all the time, you can't quit unless you fail.

jim:

Right.

Chris Coll:

You can't fail unless you quit on the opposite way around. But regardless, it's true. I mean, it's literally impossible to fail unless you throw the towel in. Because you just keep going. It's the same thing with the business. You know what I mean? Like, you just keep building and measuring and learning what you're doing and you just keep going. You keep moving forward in the straight line and you're going to eventually

jim:

Yeah, I like

Chris Coll:

become successful.

jim:

Miyamoto's quote.

Chris Coll:

What would you say your like?

jim:

I say it to our five-year-old all the time. It may seem difficult at first, but everything seems difficult at first. Yeah.

Chris Coll:

I like that. What are the two most important things that you've learned about being resilient, not just in military, but in your life as well?

jim:

Um, I think giving yourself the resources that are required to function optimally, you know, um, if, you know,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

start there, uh, you know, a lot of, a lot of guys, uh, and, and no discredit to them, but, you know, they start struggling with mental health problems or health problems. I mean, if your health is fucked up, you know, that's, that's your number one problem in life. If you wake up every day and you hurt,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

you know, whether that be mental or physical, like, that's your number one problem, let alone, you know, trying to tackle something like starting a business or, you know, achieving some kind of lofty goal in your career, having a successful happy relationship, you know. yourself the resources that you need or optimizing those biological resources so that way, you know, when you do encounter something stressful that everything is fully online to be able to address that.

Chris Coll:

this.

jim:

Number two would be Yeah, mindset probably, you know, like we discussed.

Chris Coll:

You literally read my mind.

jim:

Yeah,

Chris Coll:

I was gonna say mindset.

jim:

I mean, you can look at, you know, any situation, you know, from different perspectives. You know, I know when I was in the throes of, you know, awful depression. You know, there could be, you know. something happened and say, you know, I get some large unexpected bill and I don't have any money to pay for it, right? In the

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

inflamed, depressed state. That's a crisis, you know, it's awful, completely, you know, crush you. But when you're crushing the gym, and your nutrition, and those types of situations occur, and you have a growth mindset, then you know, when that that kind of stuff problem to solve. You know, you become more solutions oriented versus victimized by those types of situations.

Chris Coll:

you Yeah, it's just an obstacle to overcome. That's literally what it is, I feel like. This is the last question. So is there anything else that you'd like to share with listeners about your experience that may be helpful for anyone that's still struggling to gain a foothold in their life, whether it's from the military or whatever traumas that they've experienced that are causing them to feel the way they do?

jim:

Yeah, I mean, I gave you two things I feel like were really important. I think the, I would say a third would be. you know, having a good support network, you know, or at least taking advantage of it.

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

You know, if you're struggling, regardless of what it is, you know, realize that you're not alone in feeling that way. You know, so many people,

Chris Coll:

Yeah.

jim:

and probably almost everyone at one point in their life, are feeling the exact same

Chris Coll:

you

jim:

way that you do, you know, to it. For some reason we all develop this perception that we're a bother. You know, we feel very isolated or lonely when we're depressed. And you know, we don't want to be perceived as weak, but I'll tell you firsthand from my experience and from a lot of other men that have been through similar, if not worse, experiences as I have that just talking about what you're going through to someone, you know, being vulnerable and sharing that is probably one of the most powerful things that you can do to get through.

Chris Coll:

Yeah, it's a strength.

jim:

Yeah.

Chris Coll:

It's a strength. That's literally what it is. It's a superpower because it helps you overcome that feeling that you actually are weak. And I feel like people that are able to share that vulnerability, they're the ones that are strong, not the opposite around, which is what kind of society and a lot of men perceive it as. But as your example in the green zone from that first video on the YouTube channel, you know that the mental health professional talked to you guys about was literally talking about what you're going through and I feel like that's the biggest thing with the support system because you know, that's what it's there for It's you your your support system is there so you can talk to them and be able to let them know like, you know whatever you're going through and they're there to help you out in the long run and Without that system, it's gonna be hard to you know, maintain those resources and that that strong mindset but You don't need it. You can still have that strong mindset with the resources around you that you have at your fingertips, but the support system is definitely there to help. That's my take on it.

jim:

Absolutely.

Chris Coll:

This is, uh, anything else you want to say, Jim?

jim:

I was just thinking of something I can't remember.

Chris Coll:

No worries, I'm sure we gotta have a lot more episodes so you can talk about whatever you want on there.

jim:

Yeah, I mean, I could talk

Chris Coll:

So,

jim:

about this

Chris Coll:

um...

jim:

stuff

Chris Coll:

But yeah, this is the

jim:

for

Chris Coll:

culmination

jim:

days

Chris Coll:

of the

jim:

and

Chris Coll:

first...

jim:

days. But we'll save any other thoughts and ideas for another show.

Chris Coll:

You wanna do the outro or you want me to do it?

jim:

Go ahead

Chris Coll:

All right. All right. Well, this is the first episode of the Art of Resilience by Extreme Resilience. Thanks for joining and listening to the story. We have a lot more stories like this coming in the future. We want people to come and listen to high performers and how they got to where they're at right now, the struggles that they're going through, and the resources that they use to be able to battle their struggles and also maintain that high performance in their own lives. listening in and as we go through these new episodes and time goes on, we're going to be finding our voices a lot more. I'm sure there's a lot of mistakes that are probably in this, but it's just part of the game and it's part of really finding our voices for this podcast really. But Jim's story was amazing and you're going to hear more and more about his experiences through his life. and you know our takes and our advice but we're really doing this to be able to give everyone the right resources so they can have you know that extreme resilient mindset in their lives as well but thanks for listening in again and we'll catch you on the next one