We are in person at the 2024 Animal Forensic Conference in Gainesville, Florida! Dr. G will be interviewing several of the speakers to give our audience a bit of the knowledge gained through the presentations. We will be releasing each interview individually to allow our listeners to find topics of interest.

Adam Leath shares his knowledge on cockfighting, and we contrast it to dogfighting to learn the similarities and differences of both forms of criminal activity.

We would also like to invite our listeners involved in animal cruelty investigations to visit and join the International Society for Animal Forensic Sciences https://isafs.org/

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Our next guest is Adam Leath.

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Welcome to The Junction.

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Adam Leath: Thank you

so much for having me.

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DrG: So can we start by telling us

what's your background and how it relates

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to the field of veterinary forensics?

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Adam Leath: Yes, so I began my

career in veterinary medicine.

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I actually wanted to be a veterinarian.

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I, uh, was a technician growing up,

working through veterinary school or

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as you say, working for the veterinary

school during undergrad and as a tech at

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one of the local veterinary clinics, uh,

was really interested in understanding

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more about what was happening, but

quickly recognized that the confines

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of a room, uh, without being able to

see the sun and feel the breeze was

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probably not the best fit for me.

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Um, and vet school was very expensive.

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So when I finished my undergrad,

which was in animal science from

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the University of Tennessee, I took

my first job as an animal control

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officer in Southwest Florida.

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Uh, for Lee County Animal Services.

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I worked my way up, uh, through the

ranks there, uh, and spent about five

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years, uh, with the organization and,

uh, was recruited by the ASPCA, where

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I ran their southeastern United States,

uh, from West Virginia, south and west

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of Texas, uh, where I consulted on,

uh, criminal cases involving animals.

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So I was very involved during, um,

my time during my tenure there and

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learned a lot, uh, responded to, uh, the

second largest dogfighting case in U.

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S.

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history.

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I was able to, uh, respond to one

of the the largest cockfighting

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cases I've ever been involved in.

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I had lots of just amazing experiences and

have a lot, um, that I owe to the ASPCA.

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Uh, during my time, they also supported

me in furthering my education.

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I have a master's degree in

veterinary forensic science here

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from the University of Florida.

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Uh, so that's kind of in a nutshell,

kind of what started me, uh, into all

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of this and I've never looked back.

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DrG: Awesome.

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So I am from Puerto Rico and as you very

well know in Puerto Rico, cockfighting

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is just, it's common practice, right?

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Like growing up, I had family members

that were involved in it and I, I just

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knew that something was wrong about

it, but I felt that it was more like a

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personal thing, however, since even though

I am from Puerto Rico and I know about

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the idea of cockfighting, I've never

been involved in a cockfighting case.

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So I want to discuss with you,

I suppose, how it's similar

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and different to dogfighting.

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So first of all, I mean, what,

what does cockfighting entail?

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Adam Leath: So, cockfighting in its

most simple form is the,h, forced

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fighting between two roosters.

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Uh, they do not use the hens.

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They only use the rooster.

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And it is essentially exploiting what

would otherwise be a natural behavior.

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And that is, you know, somewhat of

a territorial aggression, um, maybe

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a sexual aggression between species,

or excuse me, between individuals of

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the same sex, of the same species.

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Uh, they are taking what would normally

be a normal activity or normal behavior

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and exploiting that by putting it in an

unnatural setting, um, where the birds

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cannot escape and will continue to fight.

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Um, it is, it is different.

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It has some similarities to

dogfighting, um, but there, there

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are some pretty distinct differences.

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DrG: So is there any use for the females?

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Adam Leath: Yes.

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In fact, without the female, uh, they

couldn't continue the circle of the crime.

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So, the rooster obviously is the one

that's fought, but once they have

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finished and, and were successful,

they'll breed those roosters back to

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the hens, and that progeny is the next

generation of, of fighting rooster.

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DrG: In the cases of dogfighting

that I have been involved, there's

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always the concern for other

crimes, other criminal activity.

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Is that the same in cockfighting?

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Adam Leath: It is very similar.

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Um, to normalize violent behavior, uh,

between animals, it is not natural.

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And individuals who are involved in this

type of activity are commonly associated

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with other types of illegal activity.

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Uh, I've never been involved in a

cockfight that didn't involve narcotics.

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Um, I have been involved in cockfights

that had human trafficking, uh,

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child prostitution, um, lots of

other types of violent crime.

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The individuals who were involved in

this, oftentimes felons, who have,

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uh, access to firearms, which in and

of itself in most states is a crime.

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And believe it or not, there have

actually been people killed at cockfights.

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Uh, there have even been people

killing one another, trying to settle

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disputes over the result of cockfights.

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DrG: So, when we're going into

these, into these locations, we see

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things like paraphernalia and such.

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So, is it similar or is

there paraphernalia that is

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indicative of cockfighting?

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Adam Leath: There's paraphernalia that

is specifically, uh, attributed to

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cockfighting and that is the, the knives,

the gaffes, uh, some of the paraphernalia,

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the weaponry that is specifically

attached to the birds themselves, uh,

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that, that has no other legal justifiable

agricultural purpose, uh, it is only for

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the activity of illegal cockfighting.

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So that's why it's so important that

law enforcement and response agencies

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and animal control departments and

animal services agencies be able to

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recognize these telltale, uh, items of

paraphernalia so that they know that

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there needs to be further investigation.

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There needs to be involvement of many

different agencies, oftentimes at the

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state level, even at the federal level.

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Um, animal fighting is a federal

crime as well as a state crime.

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Um, and cockfighting is

illegal in all 50 States.

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It's not a felony in all 50

States, unfortunately, um, but

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it is a crime in all 50 States.

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DrG: So So, in dogfighting they

will use enhancers, so is that

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the same also in cockfighting?

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Adam Leath: So, there can be enhancers,

um, some of the examples of that,

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uh, bringing a minor to a cockfight.

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Um, we have had cases where minors

are brought to these locations.

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Um, depending upon, you know,

the individual circumstances,

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there are lots of other types of

crime that might also enhance it.

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And depending upon the state, there are

Uh, scoring system, so how many points the

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individual may have, uh, where they score,

uh, might depend on what their previous

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criminal history looked like, um, and

might also get them an enhanced sentence.

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So it, it really has some variability,

but there are abilities, uh, for the

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judge to enhance some of those penalties

depending upon those circumstances.

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DrG: Because it is, uh, the cockfighting

in itself is a crime, can you charge

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cockfighting and animal cruelty?

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Adam Leath: It's a really great question.

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And yes, very progressive

agencies are doing just that,

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uh, in cockfighting cases.

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The activity of fighting birds is

inherently cruel in that it produces very

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serious injuries, which often results

in serious pain and suffering for the

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animals that is oftentimes repeated and

prolonged, which are pretty specific

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elements in most states statutes for

it to rise to the level of a felony.

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Um, so it's important to know that yes,

animal fighting is a crime, but also

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animal cruelty should be considered

because the individual impact to

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the bird itself, um, may actually

rise to the level of animal cruelty.

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And so in many cases that we can

articulate after our veterinarians have

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examined the animals and can attribute

their specific injuries, um, to the

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activity, we would then be looking

for those particular, uh, cases for

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us to charge also with animal cruelty.

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DrG: One of the things that I saw

from your lecture that I thought

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was interesting was the housing.

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How we, we know that there's a dogfighting

area because of the housing, the

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blue barrels and that kind of stuff.

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And it seems that that is somewhat

similar in cockfighting as well.

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Adam Leath: It is a big telltale

sign, something that we look

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for, because it is very distinct.

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Most people in backyard, poultry

operations or, or egg production, or

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if you're raising, you know, birds

for, for meat or other purposes, uh,

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you're not going to typically find

that you need a lot of roosters , and

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if you're breeding chickens, you

don't need multiple roosters.

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If you have one rooster, they can

typically mate with multiple hens.

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So there really isn't a justifiable

reason to have a large number of roosters.

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In fact, if you'd asked many people

who have one, they probably wish they

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didn't have the one that they do.

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Um, so they typically have a

bit of a Napoleon syndrome.

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Uh, they, they like to, to be the boss and

tell people what to do and where to go.

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Um, so yes, it is important.

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Um, and certainly the housing.

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is important because it's used as

a mechanism to condition the birds.

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So the way in which they are housed

actually helps contribute toward

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their strength and endurance.

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What do I mean by that?

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So the construction of let's say a

teepee style house or one of those

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blue barrels, if they're staking

those birds to the ground, that's

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that long cord that they're attached

to isn't as long as you might think.

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And in fact, it's barely long enough

for them to fly multiple times and

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to land just right to hit that perch.

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So perching is a natural

behavior for chickens.

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Bad things happen to chickens when

they're walking around on the ground,

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so they don't want to be on the ground.

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So exploiting what is a natural behavior

of them wanting to perch and to fly, uh,

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ultimately conditions their ability to

either achieve or, or close to achieve

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vertical flight, uh, but their ability to

jump and fly in the actual match itself,

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might give them a competitive advantage.

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DrG: I think it's really funny that

you mention about how people don't want

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to have more than one, if any at all.

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I remember growing up in Puerto Rico,

I had a family member that I, that I

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stayed at for like, weekends at the

beach and they had one and it was so

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horrible waking up, you know, Like you're

up late because you're at the beach and

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everything and then it's waking you up

and screaming And then if you go outside

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and get too close it's chasing you.

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But is there a difference

between those birds and the birds

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that are used for cockfighting?

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Like are there breeds

like there are in dogs?

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Adam Leath: There are, and in fact,

um, they're selected because of their

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aggression towards other roosters.

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And in fact, often, they're, they're

varieties of exotic junglefowl or

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gamefowl as they're often times referred

to, and there are a long list of them.

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Uh, but, to differentiate one from

another, I will tell you, uh, I oftentimes

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have to ask the individual because they,

they may call it one particular bloodline,

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um, but it is, is quite varied depending

upon, um, who you're working with.

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And I want to kind of circle back

to something else that you said.

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It's important.

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You know, you said that the

rooster is always crowing and

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waking you up every morning.

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It's funny that what annoyed you

is actually how we get alerted.

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some of these cases.

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Oftentimes, neighbors get frustrated

by being woken up every morning

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and then end up calling in on their

neighbor who's got a bunch of roosters.

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And before you know it, you

know, we're in the middle of

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investigating a cockfighting case.

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DrG: In dogfighting, we see a lot

of these places pretending to be

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like championships from a dog show.

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And there are associations that are

supposed to be like pitbull show

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associations, but realistically,

they're dog fighting things.

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Is that the same thing with cock fighting?

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Adam Leath: So one example of

that, in my opinion, is the

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Gamefowl Breeders Association.

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Uh, this is an association that has

show standards that are eerily similar

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to what is exactly required to shape

and condition a bird for fighting.

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Um, but will, um, what in my opinion

is an attempt to legitimize or make

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to look like a legal activity, which

is otherwise, um, any legal activity.

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DrG: So when you're going out to

one of these cases to investigate,

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what are the potential challenges

or dangers, both injury or diseases

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that you can find at these places?

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Adam Leath: So these cases present

a serious threat to public safety,

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uh, as well as to the officer safety.

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So from a public safety standpoint

and public health standpoint, these

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yards where these birds are housed

oftentimes are riddled with disease.

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These birds are not housed in

very sanitary environments.

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And so it's very common for things

like avian influenza, Merck's, um,

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Pox, there's lots of things that can

even be zoonotic, um, things like

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Campylobacter and others that can produce

some pretty nasty things to people.

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Um, so just in general, they're

very unsanitary and present a

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health concern from that aspect.

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The safety aspect includes the,

both the two-legged, the people, um,

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they oftentimes have very extensive

backgrounds and are individuals that

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need to be approached with caution.

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In fact, I wouldn't encourage any

agency who is not a law enforcement

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agency, um, to be doing this alone.

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Making sure that there's an effective,

you know, safety response plan.

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How are you going to respond?

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What do you need to respond?

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And oftentimes many people think that,

you know, the investigation of these

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crimes are going to net you to show up

in some back alley or some, you know,

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uh, abandoned house where you're going

to catch the fight happening in progress.

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And that's rare.

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You typically don't.

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In fact, you don't even need to

catch them in the act to be able

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to prove some of those elements.

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Florida is just one example, but

even breeding and conditioning or

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having the paraphernalia is the same

charge as the people who are in the

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middle of the pit fighting them.

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Um, so I can actually charge someone

with having the birds if I can show that

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they're using them for this purpose.

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I can even charge someone who is being

paid to feed and water the birds.

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And it's just the yard person is out

there just trying to take care of them.

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If they knew that the owner was

fighting these birds, that's the

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same charge as if they were attending

or staging or promoting the fight.

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DrG: We know that it's really common in

Puerto Rico, as I mentioned, but is it

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common in any other territories or states?

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Adam Leath: So yes, um, and it

actually is legal in some of the Virgin

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Islands, and in some other territories.

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Depending upon your location, it

may actually not even be a felony.

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It may be a misdemeanor.

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Um, so depending upon your location,

it's really important for you to

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do the research, understanding what

your state statute requires, but

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even more importantly than that, what

are the elements of your statute?

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Because there are some states that, that

have some statutes that are written in

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such a way that it's really kind of hard

to prove what they're asking you to prove.

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I don't know whether that's

an intentionally vague or not.

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But some of those states have statutes

that, that make the elements really

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not helpful, uh, for the investigator.

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So depending upon the wording and

depending upon the elements, and when

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I say the elements, those are the, the

words between and and or and the statute,

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so any of those that are mentioned.

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That's what the investigating

agency is going to have to prove.

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DrG: When you go in to one of

these cases and you remove the

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birds, what happens to these birds?

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Adam Leath: It's a really great question.

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It's one that I didn't get

to cover much in the topic.

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Uh, I had some questions after

the presentation about it.

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Uh, there's really not a lot of

positive outcomes that can happen

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in these cases in terms of the

birds actually remaining alive.

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And the reason for that being, one,

is, trying to effectively rehabilitate

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a rooster while there have been some

studies and some people who have,

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uh, and some agencies who've been

experimenting with this and have been, uh,

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successful, it is very limited in scope.

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In the last cockfighting case I

did, it was more than 300 birds.

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And so, I don't have 300 people

with backyard flocks that are

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willing to accept 300, birds.

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So, oftentimes, if they were

even willing to accept them, um,

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the other challenge can actually

be what diseases they may have.

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The other concern being, um, if they

have a disease that's reportable,

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or a disease that's communicable,

um, they may even be close to a

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hatchery or a commercial operation.

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And certainly your state department

of agriculture would need to be aware.

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Uh, and there are even times where

states departments of agriculture

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will actually mandate the destruction

of the birds at the property.

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Um, so those kinds of things

make it especially challenging.

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But even when trying to rehabilitate them,

even trying to identify what diseases

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they have, um, there's a myriad of them.

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And in every case that I've been involved

in, we've always had communicable disease

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to other birds, and found it almost

impossible for either the Department

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of Ag to be okay with us spreading, you

know, what could potentially be, you know,

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something throughout the community , but

then on top of that, the more that we

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test, the more that we typically find.

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Um, and we're talking about

something like serious as avian

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influenza or things like that.

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It is almost always euthanasia.

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DrG: Excellent.

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Well, thank you so very much for

sharing your knowledge with us.

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And thank you for being here and for

everything that you do for the animals.

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Adam Leath: It was my pleasure.

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Thank you so much.

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I wish all your listeners the best

of luck and stay safe out there.

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Keep doing the best of work and keeping

our two and four legged members safe.

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DrG: Thank you.