Shownotes
Episode Summary
Henry Gordon-Smith is the Founder of Agritecture, a global leader in urban agriculture consulting services. Today, Harry welcomes Henry back to the show for Round 2 where Henry talks all about his recent travel and nomadic lifestyle, the importance of pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and the evolution of the overall AgTech industry. Henry expounds on the consolidation and hybridization he’s seen in vertical farming, Agritecture’s growth strategy and why he is so passionate, outspoken and steadfast about his belief in Controlled Environment Agriculture.
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Key Takeaways
07:13 – Harry welcomes Henry Gordon-Smith back to the show to talk about travel, his current status as a nomad, and how he is scaling appropriately with his company, Agritecture
11:05 – Pushing outside of your comfort zone
13:22 – Agritecture’s growth strategy
15:54 – Voltaics, mushrooms and regenerative agriculture
18:57 – How Agritecture’s mix of clients has changed throughout the years
22:29 – What has caused corporate clients and investors to pay more attention to vertical farming
24:06 – Partnering with WayBeyond and ‘Greenwashing’ explained
29:02 – Consolidation and Hybridization in the Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) industry
33:00 – The 1st Annual Generation Fest, AgTech Week & Edible Planet Summit
39:21 – An unapologetic, outspoken advocate for CEA
41:17 – Henry reflects back on what he’s built and speaks to who has inspired him along his journey
45:01 – Opportunities for young folks to learn more about AgTech and vertica farming
47:34 – A tough question Henry has had to ask himself recently
54:13 – Harry thanks Henry for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can connect with him and learn more about Agritecture
Tweetable Quotes
“I like being out of my comfort zone. I think the history of this company is, pun intended, very organic. I started a blog and then people started asking for consulting. I never planned to be a consultant. I thought, ‘I’ll start this blog, and I’ll get some cool interviews from it, and I’ll learn some things.’ And here we are. The blog is the brand. I think I’ve gotten very used to, even before Agritecture, just adapting, and listening, and being agile. It’s a key part of who I am as an individual and sort of what we have at the company. But definitely I think that you should be outside your comfort zone if you want to innovate or grow.” (11:05) (Henry)
“But also, our new software is a key aspect of our growth. We said, ‘Let’s go digital. If we go digital, we can help tens of thousands of new farmers, forget two hundred.’ That’s also part of the growth strategy. Of course, we translate that to the hiring needs we have, the kind of marketing we would need to do to get there, and the financial resources and returns on investment, and financial targets that we have. And that feeds into our growth plan.” (15:25) (Henry)
“ESG investing obviously is also pushing an interest in building portfolios of vertical farming, greenhouses and climate smart tech. But I think it’s also the shocks in the system like the pandemic - which reminded us of the risk to our supply chain and the need to localize - and the war in Ukraine. Vertical farming, despite its challenges, has really benefited from these multiple shocks to the system and this sort of long term trend.” (23:13) (Henry)
“Greenwashing is making a claim of sustainability or environmental impact, that is an exaggeration or inaccurate, and marketing that claim.” (26:55) (Henry)
“Vertical farming is such an exciting technology and it’s a piece of the food system. When we hype it up and we separate it and we say, ‘This is the future of food, not a part of the future of food, or a part of a sustainable food system,’ we actually create a problem where we remove ourselves from opportunities to find synergies. And those synergies are really important to get to our objectives of year-round, high- quality, local, pesticide-free, more sustainable food supply in the face of a changing climate .” (31:10) (Henry)
“In the end, the people I care about are the ones that are craving knowledge and have a passion like I do and are looking for a voice that encourages them.” (39:26) (Henry)
Resources Mentioned
Henry’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/hgordonsmith/
Henry’s Blogs/Websites – https://www.agritecture.com/ & https://www.technologywater.com/
Agritecture Designer – https://www.agritecture.com/designer
Agritecture Event Link – http://www.farming.nyc/
Henry’s Instagram – @theagritect https://www.instagram.com/theagritect/
Henry’s Twitter – @TheAgritect https://twitter.com/TheAgritect
Thought for Food – https://thoughtforfood.org/
Generation Fest – https://thoughtforfood.org/generationfest/
AgTech Week – https://www.agritecture.com/events-listing/2022/9/26/nyc-agtech-week-2022
Edible Planet Summit – https://www.edibleplanetventures.com/summit
AmHydro – https://amhydro.com/seminar/
Sponsor Info
Cultivatd’s Website – https://cultivatd.com/
Cultivatd’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/cultivatdco/
Cultivatd’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/cultivatd
Cultivatd’s Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/cultivatd/
Netled - https://netled.fi/
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Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
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Speaker:help connect you to the right technology and ensure your project is successful.
Speaker:Best of all, their service is free because they work on behalf of their partners.
Speaker:Visit cultivated.com to learn more. And that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com,
Speaker:or click the link in the show notes. I like being out of my comfort
Speaker:zone. You know, I think the history of this company is like, pun intended, very
Speaker:organic, right? Like I started a blog and then people started asking for
Speaker:consulting. I never planned to be a consultant. I mean, I thought I'll start this
Speaker:blog and like I'll get some like cool interviews from it
Speaker:and, you know, I'll learn some things. And, you know, here we are, like, the
Speaker:blog is the brand. So it's not what I expected at all.
Speaker:So I think I've gotten very used to, even before
Speaker:agriculture, just adapting, you know, and listening and being agile.
Speaker:It's a key part of who I am as an individual based on my upbringing
Speaker:and sort of what we have at the company. But definitely, I think you
Speaker:should be out of your comfort zone if you want to innovate or grow.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations with
Speaker:Fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.
Speaker:Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical
Speaker:farming with your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 6. Welcome back. If this is your first time
Speaker:listening, you are definitely in the right place. This is the show where we
Speaker:interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming companies
Speaker:from around the world. I'm your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:That around the world line resonates really strongly
Speaker:with me late this evening or early into the next
Speaker:day. I'm losing track of the days. I am recording this live, not
Speaker:live, but recording this from Dubai. I'm in Dubai for AgraMe,
Speaker:courtesy of the team at Cultivator for making that happen. And
Speaker:it's a very exciting experience. I'm here to connect
Speaker:with folks in the vertical farming space
Speaker:and see some familiar faces. I was pleasantly surprised to see
Speaker:Christine Zimmerman-Lawson of the Association for Vertical Farming.
Speaker:She was past guest 51, and I'll be sure to include that in the show
Speaker:notes as well. Meeting some new faces,
Speaker:including this week's guest, Henry Gordon-Smith. More on him in a
Speaker:second. And it's been a really great experience, really eye-opening for
Speaker:me to see this part of the world and see all the opportunities that are
Speaker:happening here in Dubai. I have a feeling I'll be back
Speaker:because there's just so much going on and so much that I'm looking to be
Speaker:a part of. So stay tuned for more developments. Already planning
Speaker:new travel for events, probably early
Speaker:next year. So as soon as I know more about that, I will let you
Speaker:know. In case you missed last week's episode, we spoke to Keenan Pinto,
Speaker:the CEO of NorDetect. It's a real-time nutrient analysis product
Speaker:with cloud-connected hardware and software that allows farmers to test their own
Speaker:soil samples and see results in real time. We had a great conversation.
Speaker:We learned a lot about his entrepreneurial journey. and his relocation to
Speaker:Denmark for his headquarters and what it's like to be a first-time
Speaker:CEO and some interesting opportunities for Nordetect. Okay, as I
Speaker:teased earlier, Henry Gordon-Smith is back for round 2
Speaker:on the podcast. Henry was an early supporter of the show,
Speaker:and for that I'm going to be forever grateful. He was on episode
Speaker:number 4 of season 1. There's a special place in my heart for
Speaker:folks that took a chance on an unknown podcaster, a
Speaker:newcomer to the industry, and I really appreciate Henry
Speaker:doing that. And I actually got to meet him face to face at Indoor
Speaker:AgTech NYC, which is always fun for me. We had a nice
Speaker:brief catch-up there and made this appointment for him to come back on the
Speaker:show. And I'm really glad that he did. He came back to share
Speaker:updates at Architecture and some new stories. We talked a little bit about his
Speaker:recent travel, his nomadic lifestyle, and the importance of pushing yourself out of your
Speaker:comfort zone and how the overall agtech industry is
Speaker:evolving. He shares his thoughts on the consolidation and hybridization he's seen
Speaker:in vertical farming, Agritecture's growth strategy, and why he's so
Speaker:passionate, outspoken, and steadfast in his belief in
Speaker:vertical farming. I love it when guests come back. We get to go a little
Speaker:bit deeper and at times a little more personal as we did in this episode.
Speaker:I really appreciate Henry for being so open about his journey, and I know you're
Speaker:going to enjoy this one. Okay. I connected with a couple of fans of the
Speaker:show at the conference. That's always near and dear to my heart.
Speaker:And I was, uh, giving a couple of folks a hard time. I won't mention
Speaker:them by name. that have been regular listeners of the show and have not left
Speaker:me a rating or a review. So if that
Speaker:message resonates with you, or if you've been listening to the episode for a while
Speaker:and you feel like it's time, then go ahead and do that at ratethispodcast.com/vfp.
Speaker:The best part about it, as you know, I'm going to be reading those out
Speaker:on future episodes. Okay, before we jump into this uninterrupted conversation
Speaker:with Henry, here are a few words from the folks that support this show. This
Speaker:episode is brought to you by NetLed. From consultation and technology to services
Speaker:and maintenance, NetLed has the complete package. Whether it's your first vertical farm
Speaker:or you need help scaling an existing operation, NetLed can help. They offer
Speaker:both service and technology business solutions for vegetable and herb producers, from
Speaker:pilot phase projects to industrial scale mass production. And with Vera,
Speaker:you have the only true end-to-end turnkey vertical farming solution on the market.
Speaker:Learn more at netled.fi. Or you can visit their
Speaker:North American showcase facility in Calgary, Canada. Henry Gordon-Smith,
Speaker:CEO of Agritecture, thank you for round 2 on the Vertical Farming Podcast.
Speaker:I am honored to be back. How are you doing, Harry? I'm good. I've just
Speaker:been through some hectic travel. I know you can relate. I think I've been on
Speaker:6 planes in the past 3 weeks. Some of it was
Speaker:some well-needed R&R. Got to go to an
Speaker:all-inclusive resort, which I'd never been to, and just Do nothing.
Speaker:That's not bad. Yeah. What's your travel
Speaker:schedule been like? You know, this summer I've been based in Prague
Speaker:working with our client Microsoft and Asahi and also visiting my parents.
Speaker:Okay. I had a business trip to Singapore for some food systems
Speaker:planning work there and a business trip to Berlin for a conference. But
Speaker:otherwise I've been trying to also reduce my travel as much as
Speaker:possible. But I head to Italy on Friday for the Edible
Speaker:Okay. If you had to summarize the past year in terms of—
Speaker:I know we caught up at Indoor AgTech in NYC. How
Speaker:do you decide where to go with all the things that are
Speaker:happening? The conferences just keep popping up. I mean, there's stuff in
Speaker:China, India, Dubai. It's just like to
Speaker:even keep up, and especially for someone like you who's got your finger on the
Speaker:pulse of what's happening, like how are you starting to make the calls to figure
Speaker:out where is the best use of your time? Well, first of all, I made
Speaker:a big shift since we last spoke. I'm a nomad now, so I have no
Speaker:apartment. So, you know, one of the reasons I did that was because I don't
Speaker:have to go back to anywhere. So I get to sort of go to a
Speaker:location and stay in a region for longer. So a key part of my travel
Speaker:strategy is to sort of do Europe for X amount of
Speaker:months, do the Middle East for the winter, and do sort of the United
Speaker:States in between as a buffer. I don't do much work in Asia
Speaker:yet, and It's a pretty big trip, so you have to really
Speaker:convince me to go on there. It has to be a big enough opportunity. Another
Speaker:consideration is— so I guess the main consideration is, am I in the region already?
Speaker:That's a big consideration for me, and I try to time it around the main
Speaker:events, and it's been working pretty well the last 2 years. Another
Speaker:consideration for me is related to my new team members. I've got a lot of
Speaker:new team members, and so I really want them to have learning
Speaker:opportunities and networking opportunities. And help people see that architecture is so
Speaker:much more than Henry Gordon Smith. We've got an incredible, diverse global
Speaker:team, so I try to send them to a lot more of the events to
Speaker:represent us and work there. How big is the team now?
Speaker:15 full-time employees. What type of challenge has that been for
Speaker:you as a CEO, and not just the
Speaker:leadership, but also like figuring out where to hire the
Speaker:right people so you're scaling appropriately? Well, our services have
Speaker:diversified a lot since when we last spoke. So back in those
Speaker:days, our primary focus was feasibility studies, which was really, you
Speaker:know, the market research and concept development, farm design, and economic
Speaker:modeling of greenhouses and vertical farms. In recent years, a lot of our
Speaker:work has diversified to include local food system planning. So
Speaker:Christian is one of our newest hires, and he's a local food systems expert,
Speaker:and he's got really interesting experience from food hubs and analyzing food systems.
Speaker:So it's a new complement to the work. So part of the hiring
Speaker:strategy is based on demand. It's a little bit like touch and go. Yeah. As
Speaker:demand for certain things increase, we'll hire more staff related to that. Another
Speaker:heavy focus for us is sustainability. You've probably noticed that we're trying to push
Speaker:anti-greenwashing messaging, giving people free resources,
Speaker:providing more sustainability analysis to our clients, to our services as well
Speaker:as our software. So we have sustainability managers that we've hired now
Speaker:onto the team. And another area is new crops like
Speaker:Justin, who's our, one of our newest hires, and his focus is on
Speaker:mushrooms. And Brakely is a little bit more on the sustainability side. I gotta
Speaker:throw her and Sarah a little bit of the attention as well. They're all
Speaker:amazing. So we hire based on that demand and the
Speaker:diversification of those services. Has that pushed you out of your comfort zone?
Speaker:I like being out of my comfort zone. You know, I think the history of
Speaker:this company is like, pun intended, very organic, right? Like, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker:started a blog and then people started asking for consulting. I never
Speaker:planned to be a consultant. I mean, I thought I'll start this blog and like,
Speaker:I'll get some like cool interviews from it and, you know,
Speaker:I'll learn some things. And, you know, here we are, like the blog is
Speaker:the brand. So it's not what I expected at all. So I
Speaker:think I've gotten very used to, even before architecture, just
Speaker:adapting, you know, and listening and being agile. It's a key part
Speaker:of who I am as an individual based on my upbringing and
Speaker:sort of what we have at the company. But definitely, I think you should be
Speaker:out of your comfort zone if you want to innovate or grow, right? Like, yeah,
Speaker:I don't even know how to answer that. Comfort zone, what? Well, the fact that
Speaker:you're nomadic, like, I'm just curious because that's being out
Speaker:of your comfort zone, like not having a place to call home. Does that
Speaker:come natural for you? Like continuously pushing yourself out of your comfort zone to just
Speaker:to kind of see, you know, where your limits are? I mean, nomad is kind
Speaker:of extreme. Like, I'm not a complete fan of it. There's pros and cons
Speaker:to it. You know, like the other day I was with some friends and, you
Speaker:know, they were talking about, oh, I had to clean my apartment. I was like,
Speaker:I haven't cleaned an apartment in 2 and a half years. Like, I haven't vacuumed.
Speaker:You know, I do the dishes in my Airbnb sometimes, but
Speaker:like, that's it. I mean, it's hotels and Airbnbs. So there's pros
Speaker:and cons. You know, I don't have any stuff, which some people like, they miss
Speaker:the memories or like they miss like the objects that remind them of things.
Speaker:I don't have any of that. I just have one bag that I take with
Speaker:me. And I try to avoid winter. But I think overall, it
Speaker:really, it is taxing. You know, I'm eating meals at random
Speaker:times, you know, that affects your body. I try to stay fit, that it
Speaker:affects my habits related to that. And most importantly, it's very difficult to have a
Speaker:relationship when you're a nomad. You know, you can't really have a family or pets
Speaker:or any of that. But again, there's lots of pros that I think are kind
Speaker:of obvious. Being able to say yes to more opportunities, being able to
Speaker:see so many new things. Yeah, being able to really go for it and
Speaker:not be limited by a single place or a
Speaker:foundation, so to say. But I try to just keep whatever habits I
Speaker:can, like exercise is very important to me, spending time with my family.
Speaker:I also plan trips around visiting my team members in addition to
Speaker:the events and farms and clients. And then, so when you think
Speaker:about the growth of agriculture, do you have a growth plan
Speaker:or you're just seeing how it goes and based where the needs are? Yeah,
Speaker:we have a growth plan, Harry.
Speaker:That's why I'm curious just like how you think
Speaker:about it, because I feel like having these inputs, these
Speaker:experiences in these different countries, in these different regions,
Speaker:I got to think that that colors like your experiences and what you're
Speaker:seeing, what's happening. And then you have all these different viewpoints, which I think
Speaker:is really helpful. Well, I think one aspect of the growth
Speaker:plan is us thinking about How can we as a
Speaker:team engage in the projects we want to and make the impact we
Speaker:want to make? And so the first part of, I think, the formulation of that
Speaker:growth plan was, wow, we crossed 200 consultations in 40
Speaker:countries, like pat on our back. Like, that's pretty amazing for a small
Speaker:team in a new sector. I'm really proud of what our team has done collectively
Speaker:on that. But we also talked together and we said, well, how can we do
Speaker:more than that? What does that really look like? Like, what does growth look like
Speaker:beyond that? Consulting tends to be less scalable. So you're
Speaker:just sort of like constantly chasing and then filling up with more
Speaker:resources and then chasing again. So you can grow, but it's not
Speaker:exponential in the end. You know, you're also competing with a lot of
Speaker:other aspects that are pushing you to grow, whether it's investment or inflation,
Speaker:etc. I want my team to have meaningful
Speaker:projects as well, and I want them to feel like they're innovating. And I think
Speaker:sometimes as people do the same thing for so many years, they start
Speaker:to maybe look elsewhere. So a big part of the growth plan is also how
Speaker:do we do new things? How do we stretch ourselves? How do we make sure
Speaker:we have opportunities to learn? So I think all of that really comes into what
Speaker:I said earlier about new verticals. We constantly are tracking new
Speaker:trends. We have a very active industry trends Slack channel where new
Speaker:trends are suggested by the team and we consider them. For example,
Speaker:agrivoltaics is something we have really a lot of attention on and we're observing and
Speaker:analyzing and thinking about our play in that sector. as a sort of
Speaker:hybrid solution that has some connections to CEA. But
Speaker:also, our new software is a key aspect of our growth, right? We said,
Speaker:well, let's go digital. If we go digital, we can sort of reach so many
Speaker:more. We can help tens of thousands of new farmers, forget 200.
Speaker:So, you know, that's also, I think, part of the growth strategy. Of course, we
Speaker:translate that to the hiring needs we have, the kind of marketing we
Speaker:would need to do to get there, and of course, the financial resources
Speaker:and returns on investment financial targets that we have. And that feeds into
Speaker:our growth plan. What are some of the things, and maybe diving deeper into
Speaker:Voltaics, that you see in that Slack channel that has you excited? Well,
Speaker:I think Voltaics is really cool because it's this example of
Speaker:how you can help a farmer get more with what they already
Speaker:have. And, you know, the land that a lot of the farmers are on is—
Speaker:they're experiencing a lot of challenges, changing climates. And I think that
Speaker:the ability to sort of shade that and additionally provide
Speaker:revenue, so the shading can optimize plant growth,
Speaker:and then you have additional revenue from the energy that's produced and
Speaker:sold. So that seems like a really exciting opportunity for
Speaker:the farmers. Now, the calculations around that are very
Speaker:familiar to agriculture as far as running scenarios for if you make
Speaker:investment in X CapEx, You know, what is the return going to
Speaker:be? And also looking at how the sun interacts with the
Speaker:land. We also look at that with greenhouses and DLI
Speaker:calculations and sun paths in urban areas. So there's some
Speaker:overlap between that. So a sort of opportunity comes in, we say, okay, what percent
Speaker:of this can we do today? And what would we need to do 100% of
Speaker:this later on? So I think that's an exciting one. Mushrooms are
Speaker:definitely on the rise as a crop and something we hear talked about a lot.
Speaker:So We've invested a lot in building a mushroom model, which will be released in
Speaker:the near future on our software. That's additionally a whole new crop
Speaker:and methodology related to that, and our new hire that focuses on
Speaker:that and some consulting work that we've done in that area. So that's something we
Speaker:talk about quite a bit. I would say regenerative agriculture is a
Speaker:really big topic on our Slack channel. A lot of team members
Speaker:care about it. We would love to make a bigger impact in it. I
Speaker:think, however, a lot of Agriculture's thesis relates to,
Speaker:you know, the business case for agriculture, right? Like
Speaker:we help people reduce risk and plan profitable farms. When it comes
Speaker:to regenerative agriculture, there's just huge gaps in the data
Speaker:that's available. And a lot of times when you speak to regenerative
Speaker:agriculture leaders, not all the time, but it's like, oh
Speaker:yeah, you make this investment and then you're going to have a difficult time for
Speaker:5, 6, 7 years. Then in year 7, The earth will sort of give you
Speaker:back this abundance. And I'm like, great, can I see an
Speaker:economic model for that? Can we look at the yield data? And they're like, oh
Speaker:no, I mean, it could be this, it could be that, and it could be—
Speaker:so, you know, when I think about my clients and when I think about the
Speaker:new entrants to the space, you know, they need a business case. And so
Speaker:it's really difficult for us to really formulate
Speaker:the agriculture approach when it comes to regen ag. I'm not saying we won't do
Speaker:it, but right now it's a little bit challenging. But that topic comes up
Speaker:a lot and we're very, very interested in that. And I think we really
Speaker:believe that there's huge potential for regen ag, but we also
Speaker:believe that overall when it comes to agriculture and the adaptation
Speaker:to the climate crisis, we're really looking at farms increasing their
Speaker:CapEx, which is not necessarily the regen story.
Speaker:So, you know, I think that when people increase their CapEx, there's new
Speaker:risk and reward, and that makes a meaningful place for an advisory like
Speaker:Agriculture or our software. Are you seeing a different mix in terms of the
Speaker:clients that are coming to you for support? You know, was it more
Speaker:of the individual farmers early on, or was there an even mix? And how
Speaker:has that changed since we last spoke? I think in the early years, you know,
Speaker:there was a lot of distrust of the suppliers. I wouldn't say it's completely
Speaker:gone, but that distrust fed a lot of leads to us as people said,
Speaker:I really don't know what they're saying. I don't know if I can trust them.
Speaker:And they sort of need someone to coach them through that. I don't think that's
Speaker:gone now, but I think that there are certain suppliers which have
Speaker:made— they've proven their success to some extent. There's more
Speaker:examples they can showcase that success. There's more testimonials.
Speaker:And I think the overall awareness of the basics of, for example,
Speaker:vertical farming that was highly unknown is a little bit more established.
Speaker:And we're also part of democratizing those basics as we try to grow the
Speaker:sector. So that means that the needs for our feasibility studies,
Speaker:which was our bread and butter in the early years, really relates more to the
Speaker:more advanced, larger, high-tech farms as opposed to the smaller
Speaker:startup farms that we really began with. So that's a, that's a
Speaker:shift. But what's been really exciting, as I sort of alluded to earlier, is we're
Speaker:doing a lot more work with policymakers. We won the RFP
Speaker:to design Dallas's urban agriculture plan as part of this climate
Speaker:resilience plan. Wow. So that's very exciting for us and a big dream for me,
Speaker:as people know what I care about when it comes to urban agriculture. And
Speaker:Jeffrey Lando from our team who's leading that project with support for
Speaker:Brakely and other team members is just doing an incredible job
Speaker:balancing, you know, all of the understanding that we have of urban agriculture
Speaker:typologies with things like the social context and
Speaker:flooding and various aspects of climate change that are going to
Speaker:affect Dallas and other cities. So I think that's really, really exciting. So that division
Speaker:is definitely growing and is one we're going to be focusing on. Another
Speaker:big part that I never expected, but I think we're really
Speaker:interested in and, and we do a great job with, is due diligence. So all
Speaker:these investors have come into the sector, and when you think about due
Speaker:diligence, it's kind of like a reverse feasibility study to some extent. So we had
Speaker:a lot of tools and data and methodologies for this. So that's been a
Speaker:rapidly growing sector that's been led by our colleague Javed,
Speaker:who's been able to do that. And so obviously it's very sensitive work,
Speaker:So we have to be very careful with that, but we're able to add a
Speaker:lot of value with our global experience and help investors understand the
Speaker:risks and rewards of all of these exciting farm operations.
Speaker:Another one that's quite new is corporate clients. We had a few of them back
Speaker:in the day, but since we last spoke, we've been working with IKEA. You know,
Speaker:we've worked with large multinationals, utility companies, and guiding
Speaker:them on their strategy in the sector. And it's really exciting working with clients that
Speaker:have enormous amounts of resources to make a difference in the sector and help
Speaker:regionally and internationally. The one I'm most excited about is
Speaker:really the Asahi Microsoft project that we're doing in the Czech Republic.
Speaker:It may not sound like it, but I'm half Czech. So this is, I consider
Speaker:home where I am right now in Prague visiting my parents. But this was our
Speaker:first client in the Czech Republic and we were awarded AI for Earth
Speaker:grant from Microsoft to help hop farmers adapt to drought
Speaker:conditions, which we know are rising around the world and in Europe.
Speaker:To help protect this really vulnerable crop that is in a
Speaker:microclimate that's subject to more risk in the face of climate change. And
Speaker:there's just huge volatility that the farmers are facing. So it's exciting for us
Speaker:to not only work with more outdoor farmers, but to also work with, you know,
Speaker:large multinationals and scales in the thousands of hectares as
Speaker:far as the potential impact. What are you seeing, or what are the folks saying
Speaker:that are coming from the corporate client side? How is
Speaker:vertical farming What is it that's causing them
Speaker:to dip their toe in the water or to have these conversations with you
Speaker:that is more top of mind for them? Well, there's been this
Speaker:growth of the sector over time and these
Speaker:drivers that have pushed it forward. And some of them have been in the early
Speaker:days, like the reduction of cost in LEDs that made it more affordable.
Speaker:That's less of what matters now. What matters now is the sort of
Speaker:longer-term wave of cost savings climate change that we're seeing more and
Speaker:more reminders that is, we're gonna be facing
Speaker:the realities of it. So that's in the forefront of more
Speaker:investors. ESG investing obviously is also pushing an
Speaker:interest in building portfolios of vertical farming,
Speaker:greenhouses, and let's say climate smart tech. But I
Speaker:think it's also the shocks in the system, like the pandemic, which have
Speaker:reminded us the risks to our supply chain, the need to localize. And
Speaker:the war in Ukraine. So, you know, vertical farming, despite its
Speaker:challenges, has really benefited from these
Speaker:multiple shocks in the system and the sort of long-term trend.
Speaker:And that's allowed liquidity in the market and interest
Speaker:from investors and the overall FOMO that creates this
Speaker:rush into the sector to really push, you know, some
Speaker:wind behind the big vertical farming companies to innovate and
Speaker:scale up. And it's been pretty exciting to watch the growth
Speaker:and, you know, constantly new large facilities being built. And I think it's, it's
Speaker:really because of those drivers. You recently partnered with Way
Speaker:Beyond on the 3rd annual CEA Census. What was— that was a
Speaker:really in-depth report, and congrats to the teams for putting that together.
Speaker:Were there any things in there that were surprising for you as you were putting
Speaker:the report together? Yeah, you know, it was great to work with Way Beyond again
Speaker:on that. That was our 3rd year doing it, and it's something we, we do
Speaker:to really share with the industry. And I want to thank all those that submitted
Speaker:information and shared their honest perspective. It's great to have
Speaker:almost 400 farms respond around the world. Our
Speaker:focus for this year was greenwashing. And so this is something I care
Speaker:a lot about. If you see my LinkedIn comments, I will comment
Speaker:if you're greenwashing. And it's something that I'm doing out of love because I
Speaker:think the consequences of us greenwashing are really going to bite us
Speaker:later on from an investment perspective and policy perspective if we don't get ahead of
Speaker:it. And so what I found really interesting in the report was that most of
Speaker:the respondents said, I think it was 70% plus, said that
Speaker:CEA is subject to excessive greenwashing. So, you
Speaker:know, not only is greenwashing happening, but the people who are actually operating these
Speaker:farms feel like this sector, for one reason or the other, is
Speaker:subject to excessive greenwashing, really extreme, you know,
Speaker:overdramatization of the impacts across
Speaker:water, energy, food security, et cetera. So again, we took that and we
Speaker:actually created a free marketing guide that anyone can download. So marketers
Speaker:can now look at water, food security, energy, et cetera,
Speaker:and get the ways that they should talk about it that are honest,
Speaker:that they can still market in a creative way without greenwashing. I think it was
Speaker:also a little bit concerning that a large
Speaker:percentage of the respondents are not measuring their energy and
Speaker:not measuring their water. So a lot of farms claim 95% less
Speaker:water, and it's kind of this like, drinking the Kool-Aid regurgitated term.
Speaker:I'm not saying it's incorrect. It's based on certain academic research.
Speaker:But in reality, when you account for cleaning, when you account for
Speaker:R&D, when you account for whatever you're doing in your farm,
Speaker:your water use, it may not be at that number, especially
Speaker:not in the earlier years. So maybe when you're optimized,
Speaker:you get there. But yet companies feel totally comfortable to market that out
Speaker:there to populations, investors that don't really know about
Speaker:that. And I guess I don't really understand that because I think if you're saving
Speaker:70% water or if you're measuring your water, which is
Speaker:much better than a lot of farms in general, you are already moving
Speaker:towards a more sustainability impact, right? Sustainability is a
Speaker:process of constant improvement. So measurement is where it begins. So
Speaker:I was just very concerned to see that there was such a gap in measurement
Speaker:across some of the key environmental drivers For the
Speaker:benefit of the listener, how would you
Speaker:define or how is greenwashing commonly defined? Yeah, so
Speaker:greenwashing is making a claim of sustainability or environmental
Speaker:impact that is an exaggeration or inaccurate and
Speaker:marketing that claim. So, you know, it can happen a
Speaker:number of ways. It can happen with something that you're doing, but you're exaggerating
Speaker:it, or it can happen with something you say you're doing that you actually have
Speaker:no data to back it up. which is the most common one I would say
Speaker:in this sector. So some exaggerations include, you know, vertical
Speaker:farming is, you know, going to feed the world. I mean,
Speaker:that's not true, right? Yeah. Or it's directly driving food
Speaker:security. I think it's indirectly driving food security. It's a part of food
Speaker:security, right? Or the water savings one, you know, or
Speaker:I saw one the other day, you know, and I commented on LinkedIn and it
Speaker:said we are producing food that's lower carbon than
Speaker:outdoor field production. I said, okay, well, you can make that claim, but you better
Speaker:back it up with some data. But it also happens when large multinationals— this is
Speaker:the most common way greenwashing happens— is when large multinationals
Speaker:do something that's perceived as green to
Speaker:distract audiences from what they're doing that's not green. So for
Speaker:example, I won't name who, but a large multinational oil
Speaker:company had sort of like a booth at Expo 2020
Speaker:where it was like a game and it taught you how to like
Speaker:identify and find electric plugs in your city for your
Speaker:car, just totally trying to distract you from the real
Speaker:impact of that brand and that company. And when you win the game, by the
Speaker:way, you win a plastic-wrapped keychain, right? So that is an example
Speaker:of, you know, not, you know, not being green. And it's a real
Speaker:problem and it's going to be an increasing problem in the future. We see a
Speaker:lot of celebrities getting into the sector, starting new
Speaker:sustainable fashion lines or whatever. And I think, you
Speaker:know, the combination of our consumption
Speaker:culture, you know, with the trend of sustainability is something that
Speaker:people care about is very problematic. And I think it's just gonna get worse
Speaker:in the future, which is why in, in our little sector, in my little
Speaker:sphere of influence and my team, we're trying to help us
Speaker:be a bit better and get ahead of the negative consequences that are inevitable from
Speaker:that. What are you seeing with the other players coming into the space? Do you
Speaker:see a lot more consolidation? Do you see more acquisitions?
Speaker:You know, what type of activity are you seeing there? Well, you know, my
Speaker:AgFunder article from last year made some pretty bold claims
Speaker:about where the CA sector is going and had a bit of a
Speaker:focus on vertical farming as sort of the most
Speaker:hyped-up, you know, let's say, aspect of CEA.
Speaker:And it is, it's got the most dramatic valuation and raised the most money and
Speaker:has the highest risk-reward potentially. So just the
Speaker:Cliff Notes of that is I applied the Gartner hype cycle to vertical farming.
Speaker:I make the claim that, you know, the failure of the AeroFarms SPAC
Speaker:and also the drop of the AppHarvest stock are signals
Speaker:that we're, you know, about to— we've passed the sort of peak of
Speaker:inflated expectations and are entering the trough of disillusionment as per
Speaker:the hype cycle. And again, this is not my hype cycle. This is something that's
Speaker:been applied to many, many technologies. Happened in solar, happens in many, many
Speaker:technologies. So, you know, I think that's still true. I
Speaker:think that in the trough of disillusionment, what's exciting about that stage
Speaker:is that we move from sort of hyped up, you know, beefed
Speaker:up valuations into more of a reality check.
Speaker:Investors become more conservative. Farmers and operators and
Speaker:technology companies have pressure to be more honest. There's overall general
Speaker:awareness of what works, what doesn't. And as a result of that, there's gonna
Speaker:be consolidation. So there will be mergers and acquisitions in that
Speaker:stage as valuations drop and as investors
Speaker:see the ability to combine things. I also think, and this is another recent
Speaker:article, that as a result of that, the next stage involves a little bit of
Speaker:hybridization. And we're already starting to see that, which is really exciting. So we're starting
Speaker:to see greenhouse companies invest with vertical farming
Speaker:companies in projects. We're starting to see growers invest
Speaker:in greenhouses, in CEA. We're
Speaker:starting to see vertical farms not being just about
Speaker:growing leafy greens, but about producing products for pharma or
Speaker:for forestry or seed potatoes for outdoor farmers.
Speaker:That is the way we need to think about this, right? This vertical farming is
Speaker:such an exciting technology and it's a piece of the food system.
Speaker:When we hype it up and we separate it and we say, this is the
Speaker:future of food, not a part of the future of food or a
Speaker:part of a sustainable food system, we actually create a problem
Speaker:where we remove ourselves from opportunities to find synergies.
Speaker:And those synergies are really important to get to our objectives
Speaker:of, you know, year-round, high-quality, local,
Speaker:pesticide-free, more sustainable food supply in the face
Speaker:of a changing climate. So, you know, it might sound scary to some
Speaker:people, but I think it's actually a very exciting stage. Now, there are definitely mergers
Speaker:and acquisitions coming. I can't comment on too much of that, but I think that
Speaker:stage is still just beginning. It's been delayed a little
Speaker:bit. So, you know, I think that the war in Ukraine and, you know, some
Speaker:of these drivers I mentioned have sort of extended the runway that
Speaker:these farms have to deliver. But let's see. Now we've got the energy
Speaker:crisis. It's gonna be really interesting to see how vertical farms survive the energy crisis.
Speaker:Well, I think with all the
Speaker:conversations about the consumption of energy in the vertical farming space, the ones
Speaker:that do make it through or come up with a solution to work through the
Speaker:challenges that are gonna be happening in the next couple of months are probably gonna
Speaker:be the best ones poised for success in the future. Did you get to connect
Speaker:with the team at VoltServer? I do know the team at VoltServer. I've met them
Speaker:a couple times. I think that's an example of, you know,
Speaker:a totally different way of thinking about energy for these
Speaker:farms and starting with energy savings from the beginning,
Speaker:distributed sort of energy savings. So yeah, I think that's interesting. I think we're
Speaker:gonna see more examples of that. And I think again, we're gonna see big
Speaker:companies that have raised money buying smaller companies
Speaker:that have found key innovations across light and energy and climate control and
Speaker:automation. Yeah, definitely. I saw that you have the, there's a
Speaker:first annual Generation Fest coming up in at the end of the month in Brooklyn
Speaker:as well. Yes, Generation Fest. So Generation Fest
Speaker:is the next edition of Thought for Food's annual
Speaker:event. And for those who don't know Thought for Food, it is the most incredible
Speaker:organization run by Christine Gould. It's a global
Speaker:accelerator for youth agriculture solutions. And
Speaker:so it's really focused on an extremely global outlook.
Speaker:So hundreds, thousands of applicants apply to
Speaker:be part of the challenge. And then 10 are selected as
Speaker:finalists, and they're solving different things like food waste, you
Speaker:know, technologies for aquaculture, farmer apps,
Speaker:vertical farms, green everything. It could be anything in the
Speaker:food system and agriculture itself. They're brought together
Speaker:through a sort of training program to accelerate them, to refine
Speaker:their business plans. I mean, you can imagine if you're in Indonesia, your ability
Speaker:to get Silicon Valley-style pitches is so limited.
Speaker:Thought for Food connects you with that whole ecosystem and
Speaker:helps you sort of compete at that level to get meaningful
Speaker:investment and to grow and to learn so much. And these are young teams. I
Speaker:mean, these are 20-year-olds in many cases. So it's really inspiring,
Speaker:super energetic. Anyway, the event every year is
Speaker:like essentially the finalists like pitching, but it's way more than that. It's
Speaker:like a party. There's morning raves. There's food
Speaker:tastings, there's live chef demos, there's going to be choreographers this
Speaker:year, there's going to be musicians. And Generation Fest is sort of
Speaker:like an adaptation of that for the Brooklyn edition, which I'm
Speaker:so excited because I lived in Brooklyn for so many years and I had the
Speaker:pleasure of co-hosting the last 2 years and I'll be co-hosting again
Speaker:in Brooklyn and Team Architecture will be there and it's
Speaker:happening September 30th and it's just amazing. I mean, I can't
Speaker:talk about it enough. It's my favorite event every year. You can imagine how many
Speaker:events I go to. It's my favorite event every year. I should probably speak a
Speaker:little bit less fast, but that's the energy of Generation Fest. It's just, it's just
Speaker:out of this world. Would any of that be available remotely for folks that can't
Speaker:make it in person? It's really an in-person experience this year. There'll be definitely
Speaker:clips. If you want to experience it remotely, I recommend, you know,
Speaker:you watch Generation Food, which is the documentary that we filmed and
Speaker:produced in the year where COVID prevented us from actually having
Speaker:the teams come together. So what we did is we gave— they gave the
Speaker:teams cameras and they produced their own pitches. And then we go
Speaker:through the pitches and we have the judges live and it's a really amazing
Speaker:documentary. And you can watch that on Vimeo, just search, you know, Generation
Speaker:Food and you'll find it. And you can, you know, get a similar experience if
Speaker:you can't make it in person. Well, if the level of your enthusiasm is any
Speaker:indication of what people can expect, then they should probably make it a
Speaker:point to try to get there in person if they can. So it looks like
Speaker:it's in line with AgTech Week as well. Yeah, so AgTech Week, you
Speaker:know, which is an annual event and is sort of getting back on
Speaker:its feet post-COVID, is going to be part of— like,
Speaker:GenFest is sort of the final event at AgTech Week. And so that's happening, I
Speaker:think, I guess, 5 days before GenFest that week it's going
Speaker:on. It's a great chance to network and meet people. There's online aspects
Speaker:of AgTech Week this year and some in-person aspects. And I've
Speaker:just been keeping tabs of the events that you guys are promoting.
Speaker:Edible Planet Summit too, coming up. So
Speaker:yeah, on Friday I go to Edible Planet Summit. That's like the unconference
Speaker:organized by Sharon Chitone, who's also like, I think, part of this
Speaker:overall community. And, you know, what she's doing is she's really trying to help
Speaker:Umbria, which is I think a little bit of an underestimated province in
Speaker:Italy, showcase its food and regenerative agriculture
Speaker:aspects, but also not exclude the tech players like
Speaker:CEA. So we've got people like Naomi coming, we've got
Speaker:large corporates, we've got regen farmers coming. We're going to be doing local
Speaker:experiences, eating food, and I hope visiting
Speaker:vineyards. And, you know, we're doing all of that. And, you know, it's a
Speaker:really incredible gathering of minds, a select group. You had to apply.
Speaker:And I'm running the controlled environment agriculture and urban agriculture
Speaker:workshop. at that event in collaboration with Jan Vestra from Priva.
Speaker:But overall, it's going to be a really amazing time, and
Speaker:I'm really looking forward to that. I leave on Friday for beautiful Italia.
Speaker:Is that an opportunity for farmers or
Speaker:industries that may not have understood the potential for vertical farming
Speaker:to become more aware of what's possible? It's all about cross-pollination.
Speaker:So it's like, and I think that's also similar to Generation Fest, right? It's not
Speaker:limited to, it's not a vertical farming event. And so I think going back to
Speaker:the hybridization and synergies and collaboration, I think that there's
Speaker:way too much polarization in general in society, but we're seeing it in
Speaker:agriculture manifest. You know, there was a regen farmer
Speaker:that I really respect. He's done incredible work, and he
Speaker:posted the Edible Planet Summit event, and he said, oh, look at this, a
Speaker:bunch of corporates getting together to talk about the future of tech and
Speaker:food. And I was like, Dude, like, you don't know that
Speaker:there's no regen farmers going. Everyone is invited. You just have to apply.
Speaker:Why don't you apply and like, see if you— why don't you come? Yeah. Why
Speaker:don't you join the dialogue? Yeah. I get why there's a
Speaker:divide. I just don't get why increasing the
Speaker:divide is the strategy that makes sense. Like, it just
Speaker:doesn't. If your mission is a stronger food system, you have
Speaker:to be at the table with the players, with the resources. And you
Speaker:have to accept that in this changing climate,
Speaker:there is going to be some kind of technology that's gonna play a role. You
Speaker:can't just be totally anti-technology, and if you are, prove it.
Speaker:Like, be part of the debate, you know? So, you know, I, I, we, we
Speaker:sort of had an online discussion on LinkedIn, you know, we ended up coming to
Speaker:an agreement, so that was fine. But, you know, it's intended to be
Speaker:diverse. Do you find yourself in the role of a
Speaker:spokesperson more often than not in these
Speaker:conversations, or just because of like, you know, your experience with all
Speaker:the different facets that you've, you know, had a role in
Speaker:conversations with agriculture and just personally as you educate
Speaker:yourself more in this space, just, do you just see that as a natural byproduct
Speaker:that you've become more of a spokesperson for the industry
Speaker:in a good way? I think I've always been quite outspoken and I
Speaker:think some people like that and some people don't, but in the end, the
Speaker:people I care about are the ones that are craving knowledge
Speaker:and have a passion like I do and are looking for
Speaker:a voice that encourages them. People are afraid to say
Speaker:that's greenwashing. People are afraid to say, actually, I don't think that's going to be
Speaker:profitable. People are afraid to say that's hype.
Speaker:But people are also afraid to sometimes say that's awesome
Speaker:because of this specifically, and we need more of this. And I think
Speaker:that shyness that exists maybe it's a bit of
Speaker:imposter syndrome that some people feel, but in some ways
Speaker:I feel like I respect people. And there were mentors early
Speaker:on that were outspoken and they said their point of view. And I think
Speaker:that I've embraced that. And I think my mom is really a
Speaker:key aspect of that. She
Speaker:says, if you're not branding yourself, someone else is branding you. So
Speaker:using your voice, is a way of taking ownership over your
Speaker:identity. And I've met so many people
Speaker:in the years, and I'm sure you have with your podcast too. And they're like,
Speaker:wow, you know, I met my co-founder because I saw their
Speaker:company on your blog that you featured. I mean, we feature all kinds of companies
Speaker:for free, right? We featured them and, you know, we met and we
Speaker:joined their company. I mean, that has happened to me, I mean, 50 times. I
Speaker:mean, I've been doing this for 10 years, 12 years now. So, you know, it's
Speaker:added up. So that's huge. Like, that's a huge recharge to it.
Speaker:So whatever the naysayers may feel, I'm far beyond
Speaker:that now because I've had so many more examples of the positive
Speaker:impact of sharing your voice. And so I don't consider
Speaker:myself the spokesperson. I don't like, like, a label,
Speaker:you know, like that. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, if it helps people
Speaker:listen, if they get value of what I'm saying, sure. Call me what you want.
Speaker:Do you spend a lot of time thinking, like stepping back and seeing what you've
Speaker:built and thinking about like if this is where you thought you'd be
Speaker:in 10 years? Or, you know, when you think about things like mission
Speaker:and purpose, you know, sometimes it's hard when you're in it to
Speaker:look back, but like, do you ever find the time to do that?
Speaker:I am, you know, COVID was really hard for our company and hard
Speaker:for me. Me personally. And I,
Speaker:in response to it, I just threw more energy into my work
Speaker:and I really lost myself in, I think, an unhealthy
Speaker:way. And I think I'm not the only person in COVID that did that. And
Speaker:so I think I've been really like lost in that. I think it's a
Speaker:survivor thing in me when I feel like my
Speaker:livelihood and my community, in this case, my employees are at
Speaker:threat. I just get into survivor mode and you get lost in that. You know,
Speaker:it's sort of like when you're hungry and you can't think about anything else but
Speaker:food. So you lose a lot of yourself and you lose a lot of
Speaker:the priorities that matter. 5 weeks ago, I was in a
Speaker:car accident that was quite traumatic and
Speaker:changed my perspective on things. So I think sometimes things happen and
Speaker:now I wake up every morning and I take more time to—
Speaker:I'm not a person who meditates, but I take more time to just be
Speaker:thoughtful and I just try to think Wow, I'm alive. Wow, I can
Speaker:see, you know, my body moves, you know, I can do what I want today.
Speaker:Really, like sometimes you feel like you can't do what you want, but really you
Speaker:have the choice and the power. And so gratitude is something that
Speaker:I'm just trying to practice a lot more. And that gives me
Speaker:time to have a step back and have perspective. I think from a
Speaker:strategic perspective, you know, we do take the opportunity to take
Speaker:a step back. Our mission has updated from you know, trying to
Speaker:empower others to develop feasible urban agriculture projects
Speaker:to really empower and accelerate the transition to climate-smart agriculture.
Speaker:So we're broadening out our mission far beyond urban
Speaker:agriculture, far beyond CEA, to help make a wider impact.
Speaker:And that's why we're looking at things like agrivoltaics and regenerative agriculture. Yeah. So I
Speaker:think, you know, there's two sides to it. There's just making sure you create
Speaker:space to have gratitude and have perspective on how
Speaker:lucky you are, how lucky I am. That's one piece of it that
Speaker:just lets you open your mind. And the other piece is, you know, obviously scheduling
Speaker:specific strategy sessions with your team to challenge assumptions.
Speaker:Who are you looking to or who are you motivated by when it comes to
Speaker:leaders who are in your position or maybe where you think you want to
Speaker:take architecture? Wow, that's a good question. I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker:people I like, like I mentioned, like Christine Gould is a big inspiration to me.
Speaker:But I think like me, you know, she gets so lost in the mission and
Speaker:the passion and she cares so much about it. That is a tough one. I
Speaker:really, I don't, if I have like a really, that's so disappointing. I don't know
Speaker:if I have a really strong answer for that. I mean, you know, there's one
Speaker:of our investors, Esther Dyson, is someone I've always like aspired to be
Speaker:like because she travels the world, which is something I've
Speaker:always liked. She invests in amazing companies.
Speaker:She swims a kilometer every day. You know, she likes to live
Speaker:life well, and she just inspires me. You know, she's sort of
Speaker:like this real trailblazer, and I met her when I was
Speaker:very young. I actually proposed to her, I think, when I was like ten years
Speaker:old. I was like, "I think you're amazing. Will you marry me?" And you know,
Speaker:she's just grown so much as like a mega, like investor,
Speaker:and her her comments are so smart, and she's so wise. So I mean, I
Speaker:think if there's anybody who's been a role model that I looked up to for
Speaker:a long time, I would say it'd be Esther Dyson. Yeah. You know, one of
Speaker:her best pieces of advice is always make new mistakes. I like that.
Speaker:Encouraging risk, encouraging failure, but don't repeat them. Yeah.
Speaker:So inversing the, the mentorship model, are
Speaker:there opportunities, or are you seeing people that are providing spaces
Speaker:or opportunities for young folks coming into the space who want to
Speaker:learn more, who are excited, who are seeing this as a, as a new
Speaker:career, whereas, you know, a couple years ago this wasn't even on their radar? It's
Speaker:not something they were thinking about to become farmers or even consultants in this
Speaker:space? It seems like there's a lot of opportunities, and I don't know that there's
Speaker:a lot of guidance for people, new young folks in the
Speaker:space who want to learn more. It's really tough. You know, even for me, it's
Speaker:tough. I used to really spend a lot of time talking to people on
Speaker:Instagram and on LinkedIn, young people, because I was one of those
Speaker:people. So like, I've had to
Speaker:stop that more, right? Like, I can't do that. And I wish there were more
Speaker:resources for them. What I will say is, Part of when I stopped doing that
Speaker:so often, because I have a team to provide for and
Speaker:investors to deliver on and a mission to execute. But I wrote an article
Speaker:called I Want to Be an Agritech, and I go through my story and I
Speaker:give 3 specific steps that anyone breaking into the sector needs to deliver
Speaker:on. I think I spoke about them on your last podcast, to be honest, but
Speaker:that article is there. People can read it and they can get those steps. In
Speaker:addition to that, you know, our software now has online classes. So if you
Speaker:invest $99, you can get, you know, honestly, an
Speaker:amazing jumpstart to your knowledge, and you'll be so much
Speaker:smarter when you're in the room and at events and in interviews for
Speaker:this sector. I just really think it's a good investment because you learn
Speaker:economics, crops, technologies, you know, business models,
Speaker:all of that. You get to see how my team speaks, how people that had
Speaker:no experience in it and are now considered experts in it you know,
Speaker:got there and through that, how they talk about it. There's amazing activities. So I
Speaker:think that's another resource. And then of course, I think there are workshops, you
Speaker:know, even like AmHydro has some workshops to learn about it. You need to get
Speaker:hands-on experience wherever you are. There's probably some kind of
Speaker:hydroponics, aquaponics workshop now. And that's one of my key tips is
Speaker:just getting the hands-on experience. There could always be more, but, you know, the
Speaker:business case for that needs to be clear. And I think some of that responsibility
Speaker:is on policy and academia. Yeah, and I think the resources that you
Speaker:provide on the site are incredibly helpful. We'll be sure to make— to have all
Speaker:those links in the show notes. It'll probably be helpful for me to do a
Speaker:refresher on them as well. You've always got webinars coming up. You've got
Speaker:something coming up on October 4th for Europe's vertical farming market,
Speaker:the opportunities that are gonna be happening there. So I think I
Speaker:encourage everyone to just— I mean, as long as they're subscribed to your
Speaker:newsletter, they're gonna stay on top of everything that's happening in the space. I know
Speaker:we're getting close to wrapping up, but what's a tough question you've had to ask
Speaker:yourself recently? You know, I had an investor the other day.
Speaker:This is being very open, but I have a new investor and the investor
Speaker:said, how many months until you're going to be a unicorn? And I was like,
Speaker:wow, you know, like, because my journey has been very bootstrapped,
Speaker:right? Like, I went from blogger to consultant, you know, to raising
Speaker:money. And now we have our software and we're trying to scale up our impact.
Speaker:But again, it's like this journey was not the journey I imagined. I mean, even
Speaker:in the sector was not where I imagined. So like, I see those
Speaker:10 years, understand it's like 10 years, and I'm like, I've been
Speaker:so focused on revenue and being a profitable
Speaker:company and being an honest company. You know, I don't think
Speaker:about, like, it's not the thing I wake up every morning like, I wanna be
Speaker:a unicorn. I don't wanna be, you know, the next head of WeWork or
Speaker:those things. I mean, that's not what investors really wanna hear, right? And I
Speaker:think that the thing that I've had to ask myself is, you know,
Speaker:where is the balance between thinking
Speaker:big from an investor perspective and actually making
Speaker:a really big impact? Like, am I limiting myself by
Speaker:focusing on being too real? You know,
Speaker:because I'm very conscious of trying to encourage and trying to
Speaker:be somewhat visionary, but I wouldn't say I like try to say things that are
Speaker:even my article, right? It's like, I'm looking a step ahead, but I'm not looking
Speaker:5 or 10 steps ahead in what I'm writing. I'm not talking about
Speaker:the Mars or the moon or what it's
Speaker:going to be in a post-apocalyptic world. I'm not thinking about those things. I'm thinking
Speaker:about things that are relatively near in the future because I feel like I can
Speaker:have control over those things. I feel like I can make an impact. And that's
Speaker:my experience. So the challenge has been— and my investor said—
Speaker:I sort of said, well, you tell me. You've funded unicorns before, so you tell
Speaker:me. And he says, Henry, you're a unicorn the minute you
Speaker:believe you're a unicorn. Ooh. You know? And so I was like, okay, ooh,
Speaker:like this is like one of those, like, you know, like things I've
Speaker:remembered forever. So I put on Slack, I'm like, I am a unicorn. I wrote
Speaker:down like, I am a unicorn. And I'm just like trying to have a unicorn
Speaker:mindset, you know, so that I think bigger from the impact
Speaker:perspective. So that's been the recent thing that's sort of been
Speaker:challenging me and itching at me. You know what's so funny about those
Speaker:conversations when people who are like moving into like a wealth mindset,
Speaker:they feel like they don't belong in the space. And one of the things they
Speaker:tell you is like, if you go into a store that's like for the uber
Speaker:wealthy and you feel uncomfortable there, like, oh, I don't belong here, or this is—
Speaker:I can't afford this, or you start to tell these stories, you're
Speaker:basically conditioning your mind to say like, I'm not deserving to be in this space.
Speaker:And I think part of that exercise of having you say that I am the
Speaker:It just in your energy already just shifts because then you start to think, well,
Speaker:if I was, there's nothing to say that unicorns are unethical
Speaker:or unicorns are just trying to get money. And then you think about the
Speaker:power and it seems like that's your thought process. Like, what could I
Speaker:do better? Or who could I serve? Who can I serve who's not being served
Speaker:by being at that level? That's absolutely right. And it's that mindset shift. It's
Speaker:similar to the gratitude mindset and the power of that because
Speaker:fear is your enemy. Yes. You know, and I experienced
Speaker:so much fear and despair and survival that,
Speaker:you know, I got lost in, in something, you know,
Speaker:post-COVID and the consequences of that. And I'm getting out of that. And
Speaker:as a team, we're getting out of that. And that mindset of gratitude and
Speaker:unicorn mindset is really helpful for just exactly the reasons you said. It's really
Speaker:good advice to young people listening. You have to balance it though, right? Like, you
Speaker:can see those people who are like, way too out there, right? And that's like,
Speaker:you know, their first pitch is like, we are a billion-dollar company, you know.
Speaker:So it's really good discussion. It's a really good thing to think about. And I
Speaker:think I would guess based on the conversation we've had
Speaker:and the fact that you're there with your parents and you talk about the influence
Speaker:of your mom, you know, I get the sense that you come from a really
Speaker:well-grounded background, a really solid upbringing, so
Speaker:that that gives you that stability so you don't go
Speaker:head in the clouds and you don't become like the WeWork founder
Speaker:who people, people don't want to talk about or have as an inspiring model.
Speaker:And so I think the fact that you approach this with humility, you know, little
Speaker:things like, you know, thankfully making it through that accident, you know,
Speaker:relatively unscathed, but just giving you a new appreciation for life, having that
Speaker:gratitude, you know, we never know where the lessons in life are going to come
Speaker:come from and where the inspirations are going to come from for the
Speaker:basis for the decisions we make in the future. But I think they just come
Speaker:incrementally over time, and then I think that's what's been, you know, present for me
Speaker:during this conversation, just watching, you know, the work you do, you know, from
Speaker:afar and just seeing how— what an inspiring spokesperson
Speaker:you are for this industry. So I appreciate you sharing that story and being vulnerable
Speaker:with my listeners as well. Well, I want to share it because I
Speaker:think it's You know, we're human beings and I'm a human being and, and like,
Speaker:it's just so, I am humbled by what my parents have given. I'm
Speaker:privileged in that sense. But I think it's also important to know that
Speaker:I grew up in a, a state of constant change, you know,
Speaker:growing up Hong Kong, Tokyo, Germany, Czech Republic, Russia. Wow.
Speaker:Utah for a little bit, Moscow, Russia, where I graduated high school, US,
Speaker:Canada. You know, I never had a home. Mm-hmm. I really never had a home.
Speaker:And so for me, home is family. Like wherever family is,
Speaker:that is home. And so I feel such a
Speaker:recharge when I'm around people that understand my unique
Speaker:experience as a sort of global citizen, so to say. And
Speaker:my parents really know that because basically designed it. You know, they built that
Speaker:life. So that's a big part of it. And I just feel like I owe
Speaker:so much to them that I want to spend as much time with them. And
Speaker:this accident— life is just so short, you know.
Speaker:I've written back to people that I hurt in the past where I didn't behave
Speaker:well, and I'm just trying to let go of any of those negative feelings and
Speaker:trying to have space for that. So, yeah, I mean, thanks for
Speaker:creating the space on the podcast to talk about this, 'cause, you know, it's not
Speaker:just about LED lights and lettuce, it's about life, you
Speaker:know, it's about the journey, and, you know, it's a hard journey.
Speaker:So, if we're not humble and if we're not open, I don't know what the
Speaker:point is. Even though it does look like you're in a vertical farm right now
Speaker:with that light. It's really funny. Yeah, it's because
Speaker:of the sunset and the LED lights. Yeah,
Speaker:this, this hotel has some mood lighting for sure. Or, you know, or
Speaker:you're— yeah, or you're in the Virgin Airways, uh, waiting area or something like that.
Speaker:I'm actually on an airplane right now, you know. I'm trying
Speaker:to think about the unicorn. Yes,
Speaker:yes, yes, in an airplane, private jet.
Speaker:Yeah, well, you know, it's a sustainable fuel.
Speaker:Well, Henry, thanks again for coming on. I'm glad we got to meet in person
Speaker:in New York City. I'm looking Looking forward to the next time we get to
Speaker:chat and have a drink together. Truly inspiring what you do. I appreciate again you
Speaker:coming back on. So agritecture.com for folks to learn more.
Speaker:And then anything else that's coming up event-wise that I haven't mentioned that you want
Speaker:to point people to? No, check out the website. If you want to check out
Speaker:the software, you know, that's design.agritecture.com, but you can also find that
Speaker:there. And just, uh, keep an eye out for some big news coming soon from
Speaker:Agritecture. Yeah, thanks so much, Harry. Your podcast is awesome. Awesome.
Speaker:Best beautiful farming podcast out there. Thank you so much.
Speaker:So much. Thank you to the sponsors, of course, as well. Yes, it's so
Speaker:exciting to share all this news, and I know I've received many
Speaker:messages from the previous one, so I'm also grateful to you for
Speaker:amplifying certain voices in the sector. So keep it up. And we'll be sure to
Speaker:share this episode with your parents as well. Thanks
Speaker:for your time. Take care. Have a great day. Bye. Thanks again to Henry for
Speaker:coming on the show and sharing his really touching and emotional story.
Speaker:As always, full show notes are available at
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. It's not something I take lightly,
Speaker:and I again appreciate Henry for, for putting his trust in
Speaker:me and in this show, and for being an early supporter of the show and
Speaker:continuing to come back on and share the updates that are happening with
Speaker:agriculture. As always, full show notes available at
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. Special thanks to our season title sponsor,
Speaker:Cultivated. If you're looking for a vertical farm and don't know where to start or
Speaker:which technology would suit your needs, reach out to them today. And best of all,
Speaker:their service is free because they work on behalf of their partners. And that's something
Speaker:I got to see live and in person these 2 days at AGRAME.
Speaker:You can learn more at cultivated.com, and that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com.
Speaker:Just leave out that last E. Podcast production and marketing provided by Fullcast. Learn
Speaker:more at fullcast.com. And as a reminder, if you are enjoying this
Speaker:show, please leave us a rating and a review at
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp. We'll be sure to read those out
Speaker:on future episodes. Tune in next week for my conversation with
Speaker:another return guest, Alison Coff of IUNO. Until we meet
Speaker:again, here's to your health. Thanks for listening. To read the full show
Speaker:notes for this episode, which includes any links mentioned in the
Speaker:episode as well as a full show transcription, visit
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. There, you can sign
Speaker:up for our email list to be notified when new episodes are published.
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