Hi Friend! Welcome to this week's party! If you'd like to Support the Podcast, you can buy me a glass of wine and get a shoutout on a future episode!

The Scoop:

We are diving into the world of wild Alaskan salmon (See what I did there!) with my guest Sena Wheeler. She and her husband Rich own Sena Sea, a company dedicated to delivering fresh, sustainably caught seafood right to your door.

Listen as we laugh and learn from each other about the craftsmanship and similarities behind both fishing and winemaking.

• Sena shares her fascinating foray into the fishing industry, rooted in five generations of family tradition.
• She shares insights about the health benefits of certain fish including its high omega-3 content and anti-inflammatory properties and why we should all be eating more of it.
• Through their innovative packing and shipping methods, Sena explains how they're able to bring the highest qualityAlaskan fish into homes across the country, providing a taste of freshness that many might not have access to locally
• She passionately defends the rich, red hue of wild salmon, attributing it to the fish's natural diet and habitat. (and we laugh about what color most people THINK salmon should be...)
• We explore the concept of 'merroir', akin to 'terroir' in wine, which adds a unique flavor profile to the fish based on its geographical origin, down to the river!
• This leads us into a first ever dual Sip Spotlight + Fish Spotlight where we pair the gorgeous Copper River salmon with two very different wines a crisp Sauvignon Blanc and a light-bodied Pinot Noir, both chosen for their complementary qualities.

Links and Resources for you:

Check out Sena Sea's website to a la carte order, set up a subscription box, sign up for their email list (great recipes!) and be entered to win a monthly $50 gift card drawing

To learn more about this awesome family and their business, Follow Sena Sea on Instagram and Facebook

Find today's Sip Spotlight Wines:

2024 Graywacke Sauvignon Blanc 

2023 King Estate "Inscription" Pinot Noir

Domaine Roy & Fils Willamette Valley Pinot Noir

Nikki's Links:

Follow me on Instagram to get the scoop on upcoming episodes!

The wine that I make, Sollevato Sangiovese is available to be shipped to most US States. (Use the code PODLISTENER for 10% off.) It's a delicious, medium bodied, aromatic red wine that is perfect with pizza, pasta and your charcuterie spread!

You also NEED some delicious California Olive Oil from our awesome sponsor American Olive Farmer. Use code SipWithNikki for $10 off your order!

Please leave a RATING or a REVIEW (on your podcast listening platform), or thumbs up and subscribe (on YouTube!)

Questions? Comments? Guest requests? nikki@sipwithnikki.com

So salmon, they go out into the ocean, and it's because of the diet they eat, and they come back this beautiful red. We do get these comments online that that's Photoshopped. It's fake, and salmon is not that color.

And it's like, well, you should maybe try some wild Alaskan salmon.

That's what color it's supposed to be. Karen, hello. Welcome back to Sip with Nikki. I'm Nikki Lamberti here in Sonoma County, California.

Thanks so much for joining regular listeners and newbies alike. You are in for such a special treat this week. I was in for a treat just in the time that I spent with Sina Wheeler.

So Sina and her husband Rich are the owners of Senec, which is a Alaskan fish company where he is the fisherman, and they ship Alaskan seafood directly to your door.

She and I recently got connected and we thought it would be fun to try a pairing with some beautiful Copper River Alaskan salmon that she shipped right to my door with two different fun and exciting wines that I shipped to her door. I mean, how is that for reciprocity? That's the makings of a great friendship right there. So you're going to hear how their unique company came to be.

They're based out of Washington state, but again, he is fishing out in the waters of Alaska. And Cena is from five generations of fishing in her family. And then she married a fisherman. No surprise there.

And about 10 years ago, they started what was really groundbreaking back then, a service where they would literally ship it to your door.

Now, we're so used to getting all of our things sent to our door, but have you thought about getting beautiful, fresh, caught, sustainably packaged fish sent to your doorstep? Well, I did, and it was delicious.

So you're gonna hear her talk about really what sets apart their quality of fish and the health benefits that are associated with it.

She and I both prepared an awesome recipe that she sends out with the salmon, and then we tasted very different wines, and there were some surprising observations that I can't wait for you to hear. I think my favorite part about our time together was was discovering how many parallels and similarities there are with fish and wine.

And I know it sounds silly, but we talked about the terms terroir and merror, so you have to hear all about that and just how the importance of place and location and time and temperature are important elements in us enjoying both fish and wine to its fullest. And, of course, we both had in common the fact that we started small businesses with our other halves so here we go with Sina Wheeler from Senec.

Sina, thank you so much for joining me on a Tuesday afternoon. What would you be doing if we were not doing this today?

What a great time to try wines.

4:00Pm like, let's start the happy hour early. Welcome to Sip with Nikki. This is how we roll. You're lucky I waited till 4 o'clock.

Same.

I know you're busy between running the business, running the family. You've got three kiddos there.

So just thank you for making time and I'm so excited to have a new friend and get to know a little bit more about you today.

Thanks for having me on. I listen to some of your shows and they're so informative and super fun. So I'm just excited to be here.

Thanks. So are you a wine drinker? Not just for me today, but like.

Generally I don't want to give away everything, but I'm not quite connoisseur level, but I do like wine.

But you like to drink wine?

Yes. Yes.

Okay, good. Because if you said no, like cut, we're done and seen. No, I'm just totally kidding.

This is over. So is our new friendship.

Exactly. So when we recently got connected and I started learning about you and your family, I just got really excited to spend time with you today.

Not only because Michael, my other half, we love fish and we eat fish and cook fish all the time, but also because you're a fellow entrepreneur and you started a small business. Let's start there. And if you could just catch our listeners up as to who you are, what you're doing and why you're doing it.

We sell fish and we ship it to your door through the mail. And when we started 10 years ago, people were like, what? Fish in the mail? That was a kind of new concept.

But now that so many people are ordering so many things online and ships to your door, it's a lot more normal. So we were a little bit ahead of the curve on the whole fish in the mail, but we come by it pretty naturally. We're fifth generation fishing family.

My husband is a fisherman. He has been for over 20. My dad was a fisherman, my grandfather.

And it goes on my side, I like to say I'm multi generational fisherman's wife because my mom and I were born into a fishing family and married. The fisherman brought him in and showed him how to do it.

Yeah, you did. I love that. And we have that in common, by the way. So my godfather, who's my uncle, and then also my mom's dad.

They were both fishermen as well, in a totally different part of the world. My godfather was in Brooklyn in the Sheepstead Bay. So they were catching fluke out there off New York.

Oh, interesting.

And then my grandfather was scallops and clams in Cape Cod. But I've grown up probably like you just. We ate clams on the half shell when we were four years old. That was a very normal thing.

So we're a little bit kindred spirits in that respect.

Oh, I love that. That's great.

So fifth generation, you're around it and then you marry into it. Now, you guys reside in Washington State, correct?

That's right. Yeah. And we've always fished up in Alaska, So there's a big Seattle fleet that goes and fishes in Alaska. So my husband's up there most of the.

For most of that time, he was just a regular old fisherman. And then it was about 10 years ago when we were on a road trip. We were going to Thanksgiving and we had a long drive.

My husband had just gotten on the board of marketing for Copper river, which is pretty big name if people have heard in terms of fish, that's like the high quality fish. I have a master's degree in food science where I studied fish handling and sensory aspects of fish and things like that.

So I'm telling my husband, you know, you should do this and you should do that. You should market it like this. And he's already doing all the special handling techniques that I'm forcing him to do.

And he finally just looks at me and goes, you should. And I'm like, no, you should. And he says, no, you should sell my fish and tell everybody why it's the best fish.

And I was like, well, actually, that's not a bad idea. By the time we got to Thanksgiving, we announced the family, we're starting a business. It's named Cena C.

And then the weirdest part about it is then within months, we did. We started it because he was going to go off fishing again. So we had to just get it going and the rest is history. That was 10 years ago.

I love how you say that. That's the weirdest part about it. But I totally get what you mean.

Because so many people in long car rides or over the dinner table have these pipe dreams and big ideas, but then actually putting them into play and making it a reality, there's a very small percentage that do that. So congratulations on actually bringing it to reality. That's very cool that you have a master's degree in food Science.

And of course, my ears perked up when you said specifically focusing on the sensory aspects of fish. Because in wine, sensory is such a big thing that we talk about, and we'll talk about that a little bit when we get to sip some wine.

But what led you to study that and go into such a niche? Like not just food science, but fish handling and sensory?

I think it was a combination. My mom owned a health food store and cooked healthy meals for us every day. And my dad was a fisherman, so our meals included fish.

But I think that, you know, I started with nutrition, so I just love healthy eating and healthy cooking and the body and nutrients and all of that. I'm like kind of a nutrition nerd. And when I went to get my master's, I was really just thinking food science. I like the very.

It's a science, but it's very hands on. You get to see how things change. But when I went to find a master's program and the advisor and stuff, there just happened to be a fish one.

And I emailed them and said he was just looking for somebody that would be comfortable going on the boat and picking up the fish and like, doing this handling stuff. I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I fished on my dad's boat in Alaska. Blah, blah, blah.

It's been my blood. I have scales under my nails for my entire life.

Right, right. And it was just one email, and he was like, yep, you're hired. Full scholarship to study that. And it was just so natural.

I'm studying the fish and I have to take these samples out of the certain parts of the fish, quantifying the Omega 3s and things like that. But then these are gorgeous west coast albacore tuna. Now I take the rest of the fish home and my husband Rich is there and he's smoking it.

We're eating, like every little bit of the rest of the fish.

You're eating your homework, you're eating your dissertation. So that's perfect for college students.

We ate really well.

And congrats on the full scholarship. That's amazing.

Thank you.

Where was this, what was the university.

That was at Oregon State, something that you just mentioned.

You were talking about quantifying the Omega 3s. So I think a lot of people, especially a lot of my listeners who are foodies and people know that fish is healthy.

People know that there's certain things that we can get from fish that we don't get from other things. But can you speak to some of the health properties and why fish is so important in Our diets, you have.

All these superfood lists and you can look up different lists and they'll have different foods. But salmon fish, fatty fish in general is going to show up on every single superfood list I have looked at. And so it's the omega 3s.

I mean fish is high in protein, has like 20 grams of protein, no carbs. It's really incredible. But then you add in the unsaturated fat, which is in the form of omega 3s, which we don't get from enough places.

And that's what really puts it over the top in terms of a superfood. And omega 3s have a whole host of things that they do for you. A big one is inflammation.

So anti inflammatory, which can be really helpful, be very mood boosting and it can actually help with your sugars and weight management. And then it's just one of these things that is in a lot of things. So it's great to get it in the form of fish many times a week.

So I know looking at your website, salmon is a big focus for you guys, but you do other white fish and you also, I think seasonally have oysters and crab and shrimp, which are some of my favorites, especially around the holidays. We will probably shipping from you to New Jersey for our feast of the seven fishes this Christmas, which is what we do.

But does all fish or does all fatty fish have those properties with the Omega 3s and qualifies that superfood?

So it's the amount of fat in the form of omega 3. So a lot like beef is graded, you know, grade A beef is basically just higher in fat so it has the more marbling and that's deemed better.

And fish is really similar where you just luck out because the fat is also what makes it healthy, it makes it delicious and tastes good and have a rich flavor and it also brings the Omega 3. So there's a lot of great properties. There's lower fat fishes. So a lot of the cods are gonna be lower.

Well, sable fish or black cod is a very high fat white fish, but halibut is very low. And some of the cods are low in the Omega 3s, but they're still a really clean protein and still have a lot of nutrients.

That makes total sense. So you sent me some beautiful Copper river salmon is what you sent me, right? These filets.

And you mentioned the Copper river and how that's very special and very specific. So what's so special about Copper river versus any salmon that I can buy anywhere?

It goes back to the fat content like we're talking about, and it's that higher fat content. There's five species of salmon that run in different rivers which people may have heard of. Chinook or King is the top.

And then you have sockeye Coho, and you have chum or keta and pink salmon. So I've said those in the order from most fat to least. So you have all those five types that might be in different rivers all around.

And then each river the salmon actually spawns goes out to the ocean, comes back to the same river. And so within that river, you get a certain amount of merrois. Like wine. Like terroir.

Like terroir. But mer for sea, which is a new kind of buzzword, at least new to me. I love that you just used it. Say it again.

I'm not sure if it's merroir or merwerd. Say terroir.

Americans we say terroir, but it is a French word. So terroir. Terroir is how you would say it. So that's a sexy word. I like it.

Yeah. So it pairs so well with wine when you get into the Marois and the terroir. So every river does produce a different tasting salmon.

So you have the types of salmon and then the river types. And Copper river is special because not only is it a certain Marois, but it has a higher fat content.

And that higher fat, like we mentioned, it's going to have a more moist eating quality and that depth of flavor that just makes it one step better.

Okay, great.

So now that people know the types and the hierarchy as far as fats and why it's so special coming from Alaska, where your family is fishing, why should they buy it from Seneca and not just go to a great fish purveyor that might be in their town? What's the difference of how it's getting to the table?

That does make a difference.

And what I like to say is if you're by the water and you have a great fish purer, that's like right there, getting really fresh shipments in from boats. That's fabulous. Go there, definitely get your fish there. But a lot of people don't have that.

And so when you're relying on a grocery store, what you see in the case is actually refreshed fish. So it's been frozen, and then they're refreshing it, and then it's sitting for days. Our fish is frozen right away.

So it's brought in off the boat and we cut vacuum seal package and Fresh freeze right away. And that stops the clock because you have time temperature. And if you can eat fresh right away, right off the boat, great.

If it's been shipped real long ways and sitting in the grocery store and you've got seven days on it, I would rather have it frozen and have that clock stopped. So it's really about that time temperature. And in a grocery store, not only do you not know, but I feel like I'd rather defrost it on my schedule.

I actually like to defrost my fish right before I cook it. So I don't. Some people defrost overnight, which is acceptable, but I feel like every hour in the refrigerator the quality is actually decreasing.

You're right back in that time temperature with the quality just taking a hit every hour. I like to defrost it right away and then cook it up.

That makes total sense the whole time temperature.

One of the things that I know that you talk about is you use the word sustainable and of course we're gonna talk about that as it pertains to the fish, but also to your wonderful packaging. Cause I know you've worked hard on that. Sustainable is a word that I think people throw around a lot.

So when we're talking about Copper river salmon, what does sustainable really mean?

So we do like to think of it as a multi level approach on sustainability.

And so the number one is just that our entire industry is regulated for sustainability, which means that we're not just going out and catching everything you can. The management is allowing the fish to escape up the river. And there's a certain count, there's escapement goals by date.

We only fish twice a week and that's only if the escapements have reached their goal. And if we don't have enough fish escaping up the river, we don't fish. It's either a 12 hour opener or if there's more, it's going to be 24.

So that management is a big piece and that's managed by the state of Alaska. And everything in Alaska is managed that way.

And there's no fish farming which can affect the stocks and the quality of the stocks in terms of like diseases and life. So you have this very pure wild stock that's being managed appropriately. And then also the fishing methods.

So we have a RFM certification and which is just really dialing into how is that fish being caught? Does that affect other species and things like that?

We're using a gill netting, so it's down to the size of our boat and the size of the Net holes and things like that. And then at the facility. So we're unusual in that we have our own manufacturing facility too, or processing plant.

So we're cutting the fish ourselves to our own specifications. So we do things like scrape the backbone literally with a spoon so that every little piece of meat is being utilized.

Taking the chop or the little bit and we skin it, debone it and put that in a bag, we call it chop. And it's all the fish that would otherwise be wasted. But we're trying to utilize every bit of the fish.

And then when we ship, we're using sustainable foam packaging materials. So it's important to us to have this nose to tail or all the way through. Sustainability.

Yeah. I was so excited to see it arrive, period. But extra excited to see my fish arrive in not a styrofoam cooler with an ice pack.

That used to be really the only option. Right, right. And with your sustainable foam. And it just. That makes my tree hugging heart happy when I know the fish was caught sustainably.

You guys are fishing in a sustainable manner, but then you're also shipping it to my door with sustainable packaging. That's awesome. So kudos on that.

Thank you.

You mentioned the chop, so I think you people can buy that. Right? And then do you have recipes to use that as well?

Yeah, we actually have the chop on sale right now. We fish on what's available and so we have different things and we have our weight fish chops. So it's just these chunks, boneless, skinless.

And then I share some recipes that work well with that.

Because if you're putting it in a sauce, say you're doing a creamy pasta sauce, we're just actually saving you a step because it's already skinless, boneless and in pieces. So that's a really fun product to get to know.

That's beautiful. I think I saw from your great emails where you share wonderful recipes and news, I saw something for salmon patties.

Would that use the chop as well or is that you're breaking down your own salmon at your house?

Yeah, we go ahead. And when we're scraping that backbone, sometimes we do sell a £1 package of pure chop salmon chop.

That would be great for you to make your own patties. But when we have a whole bunch of that, then we make it into salmon patties that are already formed and so that becomes just the easiest.

That's what I eat for lunch. Put it in the air fryer and it's half veggies, half salmon, a little bit of Sauce is really good and feels like just like a nice, easy lunch.

Oh, I love that. Now people can sign up for a subscription. Can you tell me more about that?

Yes, we do offer subscriptions. One of our favorite subscriptions is our seasonal variety. We know the seasons and what we're catching and what's abundant and what's in season.

So if you subscribe to that, you choose how many portions in your box if you want it, one, two, or every three months. But then we're going to decide. Oh, it's sockeye season. We know you want sockeye right now. This is what's hot in the springtime.

In the fall time, it's the coho. And that if it's coming off the docks, we'll pack your box with that. In the winter, we're going to pack with a mix of whatever we have available.

So it helps us manage our abundance, but it also just helps our subscribers not have to worry about changing. Oh, what's in season. What's this? They just know they're gonna get what's in season.

You're taking care of it. Yeah. You're taking the guesswork out of it and just making it easy for people, which is what everybody wants. Right?

Right.

Isn't that. Sure. Your tagline on your website is healthy fish delivered easy.

Yes.

Check, check, check. I want all of the above.

It is really important to us that we help people with that confidence level and just make it feel easy and really doable.

Yeah. And I have to say, the communication from when the order was placed, then I knew it was on the way and I knew it was out for delivery.

Especially important when it's something that's frozen.

I knew I was up in my home office here where I record, and I got the notification on my phone that it was on my doorstep and went down and brought it in right away. So it was very seamless getting to the doorstep.

But I laugh because you talked about how 10 years ago you were ahead of your time with this sort of delivery. When I went down to pick my fish up off of the porch, there was my stitch fix with my clothes and my skincare. Everything was on the doorstep.

So this is how we operate nowadays.

Right? Right. It's not so shocking anymore.

It's totally normal. So you send a lot of great emails with recipes.

And of course, there was a recipe card that arrived in my box, which I prepared and we're gonna taste in just a minute. But I also started to see something about a gift card drawing for your mailing list. So can you tell our listeners about that?

Yeah.

We've been doing a drawing every month, so if you jump on our email list, and as long as you open the emails, we do a drawing and send $50 gift cards. So it's a great way if you're on the fence. It helps people feel comfortable, and they can give us a try.

That's great. And I don't know why people wouldn't open your emails, because what I've seen so far is recipes is so fun and fascinating and exciting.

Well, I've made you wait long enough. Should we. A little wine and a little pairing with this beautiful salmon.

I'm looking forward to it. I can. I'm sitting here. I can.

I didn't see you take one sip. Really, really good willpower.

I'm a real rule follower.

I'm the same way too. But then we're never gonna drink, so let's just go for it. So we call this portion of the show the Sip Spotlight. Sip Spotlight.

Although today we're also gonna do a Fish Spotlight. So I may have to record a new jingle for Fish Spotlight. Fish Spotlight. Do a little over the top, because I am.

It's just like everything's production with Nikki. Yes, that's how it is. So you and I have pretty much the same wines in front of us, which is really exciting. Now, I have to preface this.

If this was happening a little bit later now, in hindsight, I probably should have planned this a couple weeks. I would have sent you some. Pride Mountain Vineyards, Viognier. Pride is the winery where I've worked for many years as a wine educator.

And Viognier, which I did an episode about two weeks ago, is a beautiful go to wine with fish, but it's sold out at the moment, and it's not released, and it's not available, and I couldn't ship it to you, so I didn't want to tease you by, like, me sipping on it and you not having it. I went with a white that I just thought would be lovely and refreshing with salmon, and that is, of course, Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand.

So we both have. I thought the name was greywack, but it's actually pronounced gray wacke, which is on their website. G R E, Y, W, A C, K, E. But you pronounce the E.

I do like Sauvignon Blanc. I feel like they're fresh and refreshing.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I picked it especially because we both prepared a poke bowl.

I used my little recipe card, and mine has soy sauce, sesame oil, ginger, garlic, green onion, avocado, chili pepper, and sesame seeds. And I put it over some sticky sushi rice that I made in my insta pot. My mouth has been watering since we started. Cause it's over there.

And so I picked these wines specifically knowing the food that we were going to have so we could talk about it. So let's just have a moment with just the wine. I'm going to give it a good swirl. So what I love about Sauvignon Blanc, it's so aromatic.

Like, for me, a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, typically for me, has this, like, fresh cut grass, like, grassy springtime.

I'm having trouble finding the word, but it's just so fun. Fresh.

Fresh is a great word. Maybe some zesty, citrusy notes on there. Ooh, it smells great. I've never tasted this wine before. This is a new one for me. So yum.

Oh, wow.

Are your salivary glands firing?

Yes, yes, yes.

So the acidity in that, which is a positive thing, that's part of the freshness. It literally is. That's why we're making these noises, because that's what the acidity and the wine does.

And oftentimes that could be nice if you're just like, on the boat, on the beach, sipping, it's very refreshing. But for me, when a wine has that acidity that's literally making my mouth water, it's crying for food. Put something in there to reabsorb the saliva.

I just so happen to have my pokeball now. I'm kind of proud Cena, I have to tell you.

Oh, look at that.

Let me show you mine all the time. I've never made one.

Oh, yeah, we did good. We did good.

Yeah. I order them everywhere. Especially if I'm at a beach or beachside restaurant. Hawaii.

I, like, probably, you know, OD it on poke when I'm there, but I tend to do tuna poke, ahi poke a little bit more. Even though I love salmon, but I've never actually made a poke bowl in my house.

And it's so easy, right? That's super easy. It just happens to be that I did a salmon bowl last night. We actually. I put it in the air fryer, though.

I marinated it and put in the air fryer, and then did A salmon bowl. And that's. I've been doing that a lot as just. It's a nice family. Build your own bowl meal.

I love that. Now, is yours over rice?

Mine's over rice with same. A little bit of rice vinegar, and I've got some sesame seeds on top. Ginger. So it sounds like our flavors are really. We just nailed it.

Our flavors are really similar.

We just nailed it. So I'm gonna take a sip of the wine again, because through my jibber jabber talking, the acidity subsided. I want that, like, fresh.

I'm so excited to taste this. I've been thinking about this all day. Yum. Nice chunks of avocado in there.

Wow. I taste before and after. The food is so different.

Tell me more about that.

I feel like the sip before I had the salmon, I was getting, like, such a strong, like, grapefruit, the astringency. And with this. Yeah, very tart. But with. I feel like mine is. My salmon's a little bit sweet too, so I feel like it cut some.

Of that for me. It softened the wine. And the wine initially with all that fresh acidity, the wine was.

The word I use is, like, sharp or linear, like, lasery with some edges.

And then after the beautiful fattiness of the salmon, fattiness of the avocado, and the saltiness of the soy, when you go back to the wine, it just softens the wine and they bleed into each other in a good way. They, like, marry, and the edges between the two blur. Yeah.

Yeah. I like that. Going back to the fish after the wine, which is so refreshing. I feel like I'm even tasting, like, more of the fish on my next bite.

Like, palate cleansing.

Right.

You're really tasting the fish for the fish.

Right.

Oh, my gosh. This is so good. I'm so excited. I love doing this so much.

I know.

This is really fun being my new friend. Oh, my goodness. Mine has some green onions in it too.

And then I actually put my favorite red chili peppers, like, flakes, instead of chopping an actual red pepper. So they're from Burlap and Barrel, which is the company that we love. And some of the peppers in there in the shaker are a little smoky.

Oh.

So it's really playing well. If I had to guess, Michael, I can hear him down in the kitchen. He found the rest of the poke in the fridge, and I bet he's making his bowl right now.

And if I had to guess, he is probably gonna make a sriracha mayo. Like a spicy.

That's what I put on mine. Yes.

Yeah. Drizzle. And I love that. But I was trying to be a little clean and lighter, especially for this purpose.

But I do love me some spicy mayo, and I bet he's going to town with that down there. So do you like this pairing?

I really like it. When I was looking at the wine, I was thinking that the white would be better with.

I do a lot of grilled salmon with more of a lemon and more refreshing, and I was thinking, oh, I wonder if it would go better with that. But I'm actually loving how it's cutting and melding together.

Yeah. Ooh, I love your words. Cutting and melding. Yeah. I think it's sitting in the pocket beautifully.

I think they are a match as far as weight and body, which is also one of the things we look for in a good pairing where you don't have a heavier wine overpowering something delicate. If this was a poached halibut, very delicate with maybe a little bit of butter, you'd have to be really light on the wine.

But this wine does have a little weight to it, even for a Sauvignon Blanc. But, yeah, I'm loving it, and that's.

What I find with the Copper river salmon. It really. It does stand up. Especially the sockeye, which is what we're eating, is the. Is known as the boldest salmon flavor of all the fish.

So it can stand up to some pairings of fun.

I almost keep forgetting that it's salmon, even though that's what we're talking about when I look at it, because I told you, I tend to do a lot of ahi and tuna, which is more of that pinky color. And this has such beautiful color. And I know that the color is a hot topic.

I've been following your Facebook, and in your email, you're, like, telling people, hey, people are questioning the color. So what's going on with the color, and why is it important?

The color is so amazing. Like all vegetables and even wines, they say, taste the rainbow, and the color is healthy for you. It has the anthocyanins in it.

And so Copper river sockeye.

It's a wine word, too. Anthocyanins.

We're such a match.

We're nerds. We're both nerds.

So salmon, they go out into the ocean, and they. It's because of the diet they eat, and they come back this beautiful red. We do get these comments online that that's Photoshopped.

It's fake, and salmon is not that color, you should maybe try some wild Alaskan salmon.

That's what color it's supposed to be. Karen.

It is not AI, but it's like the Omega 3s. It's fun when that also has an element of health, so it actually makes it taste good and good for you. And it's another one of those win wins.

But when you're looking at wild Alaskan salmon, that sockeye is the brightest red. And you're looking at. Because the farmed fish is going to be a much lighter color, and I.

Think that's what people are used to is like a pale orange. I think of the Crayola crayon box. When you pulled out the crayon that said salmon, it was not this color. It was like dark peach.

Right.

Or like a light orange. And I think that's just what people are used to. So this is so beautiful, rich depth of color.

And then I feel like the flavor matches what I'm expecting when I see that color, which is really fun.

So speaking of fun, when I was figuring out a second wine to send, I chose to send a red because I thought it would be a great conversation, because oftentimes people say, let's fish. You have to have white wine. And that's not always the case. Depends on the fish, depends on the wine, and depends on how it's prepared.

So we both have Pinot Noir in front of us from the Willamette Valley. So your neighboring state there in Oregon, where you went to school.

Right, Right.

Willamette Valley is known for producing beautiful Pinot Noir, and I chose to do Pinot from there versus Pinot from my backyard here in Sonoma county, or obviously Burgundy, because I subscribe to the whole. What grows together goes together. Yes. So I didn't do this with the white, but with the red.

If we are going to enjoy fish from the Pacific Northwest, let's pair it with a Pinot from the Pacific Northwest and see if they are companions. Now, Pinot Noir, obviously on the spectrum, as most people know, is one of the lightest red wines. Light in color, light in body, light in tannin.

Because Pinot Noir is a thin skin grape, and anthocyanins come from the skin, and that's why Pinot you can generally see through in the glass. But rather than me say that, let's test it. So I'm gonna put my Pinot in the glass. That sounds funny. I'm going to pour some Pinot Noir in my glass.

That's funny.

I've had three sips of Wine. And I'm already getting silly. Trey. Let's see the color. Now, we have different producers, but from the same region. Mine is domain Roy and feel.

And yours is inscription from the King estate. Is that right?

At first, it's. I would say the white was more aromatic.

Maybe it's sleeping a little. Yeah, mine is aromatic, but in a completely different way. It's not grass and grapefruit and citrus. Mine is like a candied cherry.

A little caramelly coming from the fact that it was in oak. Right. Whereas the sauvignon blanc was primarily done in stainless steel. So we didn't get those oaky notes. But I'm getting a little bit on that.

And I can see through the pinot in my glass. So I'm tilting my glass, and I'm looking down to my notes below, and I can make out writing. Can you see through yours?

I can see through. Yeah. So it is a light red, which I think does work well with this salmon.

Yeah. But my thought was. And I don't know. I haven't tasted it.

My thought was, because the salmon is fatty in a beautiful, wonderful way, the avocado is fat, and then we've got the soy and the sesame oil and the ginger. Those are all things that are adding richness. And then rice has weight to it too.

So my hope in this pairing is that the wine is not going to take the spotlight and overpower this beautiful dish. But I'm not gonna know until I try it. So let me taste the wine first. Ooh, mine's pretty.

It's really good. Too soft.

Not as much acidity as the Sauvignon Blanc. I'm not getting that same thing happening. Although it's not a fair comparison. Cause now we do have a little bit of fat and residual.

Oh, true.

In the mouth that. That sort of tempers that. But on first sip, there's medium acidity there, but a little softer, sort of hugging the sides of my mouth.

You're getting, like, a dark cherry, but it's definitely. Yeah, it's not that, but I think you're right, because we had nothing in our mouths. So that first sip of the white was, like, dramatic.

Yeah, it was dramatic.

Whoa. Yeah, this is a little less dramatic.

But I also think with wine and food, it's always context of what's come before, but I'm gonna take another sip of this wine. This is also a new wine for. And I generally enjoy Pinot Noir from Willamette.

In case people are wondering, it's not Willamette for listeners, even though it looks like it. Someone from the region once told me this years ago, and it's always stuck with me. It rhymes with dammit. So Willamette. Dammit.

So I always think of that when I look at it, because I want to say Willamette, but it's Willamette.

It's Willamette. Yes. Because I did go to school down there near the Willamette River.

See, I didn't even know that. And it was meant to be that I picked this. All right, so had another sip. The wine's beautiful. Now I'm gonna go back to my poke bowl. Hello, friend.

I missed you.

It's making me want to just dive into this bowl.

Oh, God. Right? I think they're good friends.

I think so.

I'm gonna let you go first and be honest.

I feel like I said this before, but brought out the sweetness of the salmon. So whether I'm noticing it from contrast. Oh, it's that difference. I need another bite.

Oh, you're making excuses. Just have another bite.

You need another bite.

No, I totally get that. Yeah. And you just totally hit the nail on the head. So.

In food and mind pairing, sometimes we look for similarity, where something that's light and bright in the glass and light and bright in your mouth, and they are friends. And then sometimes we look for contrast, where you have sweetness.

Because of your preparation of your salmon, the wine has pretty much zero sweetness. I would say this Pinot Noir, at least mine, and I think yours is dry. There is no residual sweetness in there.

But yet, just because of the magic, when you have a sip of it, you notice the sweetness. And for me, I don't have much sweetness in my bowl, but the soy sauce for me gets louder after I take a sip of wine.

And it's almost playing to that umami richness in the Pinot noir, to the umami of the soy.

That's the intrigue of food and wine pairing is that depending on what's in your mouth, it's gonna raise or lower the volume of certain elements that are in your bowl, in our case, or on your plate.

Yeah, that's really interesting. That umami, I think for sure from that soy, the depth. Now I have to go back to the wine.

I know. I'm like, let me do it one more time. And then I have some Listener questions for you? Yeah, for me, I do a lot of Pinot Noir with sushi.

If it's not Pride Viognier. But for me, always the worry is gonna be when you move to a red with fish, is the fish being allowed to still shine or is the wine overpowering it?

For me, this beautiful Pinot Noir is not overpowering this bowl because of the fat, because of the soy, because of the sesame oil. They are also a match. But we said that about the Sauvignon Blanc. And then you're like, could this dish.

Like, have two soulmates really torn? Cause I really like that white with it. I feel a little bit like the white had more contrast and the red is meshing a little bit more.

Nailed it. Nailed it in your description. So I think the answer. Is there a right or a wrong? No. I think it's whatever is interesting to you.

And I think it's so fun, whether it's in a restaurant or at home, to have multiple wines with the same dish and be able to do those different pairings and see what the difference is. And I don't think a lot of people do that. They pick a bottle and they're like, we have to commit to this bottle.

And I get that you don't want to just be like, willy nilly opening bottles, but in today's day and age, there's all types of preservation systems and vacuums. The coravin, which I've always talked about, I'm a big fan of, use those tools that are available where you can open multiple bottles.

I'm not saying drink multiple bottles. I'm saying you could have a glass of the white, glass of the red, and really see for yourself what's going on here. It's really interesting.

Yeah, Exciting. That's fun. Because I don't have a lot of opportunity where I am drinking two different wines with one dish and really comparing.

And it is fascinating.

Totally agree. The other really fun thing about our wines today, the gray Wacky Sauvignon Blanc is 18. $18. My Pinot Noir was a little bit more, is about 35.

But your Pinot is, like, in the 25 range. So none of the wines that you and I have in front of us are over $35. And that Sauvignon Blanc is 18, which is pretty fantastic.

Did you notice it had a screw cap?

I did.

Were you like, man, Nikki's at cheapo. Like, what kind of crap wine is she sending me with screw cap?

Actually, it was right before the podcast, and I was going, oh, thank Goodness, I don't have time to dig through a drawer.

And that's nice, too. But, yeah, I've done previous episodes about Coric or screw cap. And the bottom line is, screw cap described does not mean lower quality.

Oh, that's interesting because you do have that connotation of quality. But it's more about enjoy now, don't store it.

That's it. That's right. Like our fish wines. For the traditional. Wait, say it again. Say it again. For the back row. Say it again.

Like our fish. Enjoy now, don't store it.

So again, we have found another parallel in our worlds about time and temperature, which is both important with wine and then terroir and Merois. The taste of the place, the taste of the sea, the taste of the river. Going back to Merois for a minute, right? I'm being a nerd about this.

The terroir, this is Willamette, Willamette Valley of Oregon.

And it's the same grape, and it's going to be different than it is from California, than it is from France, because of the wind and the soil and all that.

When we talk about Marois with fish, do you think that salmon from the Copper river has a different character or flavor than salmon from a neighboring river?

Oh, for sure. And where my people fish, people can tell the difference. So it's a lot like wine.

Whereas if you're not drinking a lot, you might not be able to tell the difference. But if you're eating a lot of fish, you can tell the difference. Since a Copper river salmon vs.

Bristol Bay salmon or Prince William Sound, they have a certain flavor, texture, color difference.

And I think that is something people who like oysters, which I love, can really understand.

That is so true in oysters, whether it's from the blue points from the Long Island Sound, which is close to where I'm from, versus the Shikoku, versus the Prince Edward Island. But I think it's really an obvious concept in oysters because they're literally like little filters, right?

And they're filtering the ocean environment that's around that. So that's probably going to express in the flesh of that oyster in some way.

And that's why when we go to our favorite Willie's Seafood Bar here in Sonoma county and they have the wall. We have six different kinds. Today we're like, give us three of each. We want to taste them. All right.

We want to look at the difference in the size and taste, the difference of the ocean. So that's probably a great application of Merrois.

Yes, exactly.

Oh, this was so fun. Okay, so for our final segment, we're going to go into some listener questions.

Oh boy.

Listener questions. So don't worry, they're not scary. And actually I'm going to be totally transparent. This is one listener who had a lot of questions.

So these are from Katie and Katie had like two or three questions. So the first one was.

After five generations of fishing in your family, has technology helped or hurt in any way when it comes to modern commercial fishing?

It's very similar. My dad broke into a boat that my grandfather ran and he was from Norway and it was considered an old Norwegian boat.

Those boats are now 100 year old wooden schooners and they're still in use. So it hasn't changed that much.

There's a little bit of technology in the baiting instead of hand baiting and that kind of thing for long lining and then for salmon it's done the same. There's a lot of regulations around our boat size. Like I mentioned, the net size, how it's done. It's a bow picker.

So there's no change on the way we fish. I think the changes are in the processing facility. A big change is fishermen don't stay out as long.

They're going to come back and bring that fish in a lot sooner compared to like when my grandfather fish, it would stay out. Now the market demands fresh fish so they're going to come in faster. But also the processing facility is going to be ready to go.

It's all about that time temperature and getting that fish cut and frozen right away. So it's the quality aspects of the vacuum sealing and the freezing. We freeze to sushi quality so you can eat it raw, things like that.

The fishing itself, very unchanged.

Wow, that makes total sense. This question might be related to the last one, but let's see, it might take us in a different direction.

So she'd also like to know, are there any traditions that your family still has in how they fish?

There's some old superstitions.

Oh yeah, let's get into that. Tell me more.

There's. My husband actually is going out long lining tonight.

So when he's pulling away from the dock, even though I'm not there and he's going to be out on the boat for his first trip out. He's going to call me and I have to tell him, manga pinga, manga fiska. That's what my mom and my grandma always said as they headed out.

And so that's much fish, much money.

Is that Norwegian?

Yes.

Okay, say it again.

It's mangapenga, manga fiska.

Mangapenga, manga fiska. All right, Rich. Manga panga. Manga fiska.

Manga panga, manga fiska. He's heading out tonight. When we would be in person when the boat pulls away, it sounds horrible, but they spit on the boat and I don't know why.

It's like my people. Yeah, it's a blessing, right? And it keeps away the evil spirits like the Greeks.

Send some of me with you. And you never bring a suitcase on board. That would be bad luck. So you can bring a duffel bag, but not a hard shell suitcase.

I think that one's born in necessity because boats are very small. There's no room and they're like, come.

On, you need to wedge it up under the bench or whatever. There's not an overhead compartment for your rollerboard.

No roller bags. That would be unlucky. And then my husband, when he broke in, he loves to whistle and he whistles along with music and just whistles all the time.

And the old guys, they would tell him, he's. Oh, they would just get so upset that he has to stop. You have to stop. Because they'd say, you're gonna whistle in a storm.

He must have a very powerful whistle. We got some really cool tidbits about your family. Okay, and then Katie's final question.

She was very question greedy, but she said she eats salmon like, like twice a week. So you may have your new star customer signing up immediately in Katy in St. Helena, California, but she likes to do a lot of grilling of salmon.

And her question was around the whole wood plank, particular wood or particular technique or any guidance that you can give to doing it on like an open flame grill.

Oh, for sure. I love that technique. And we being in the Pacific Northwest, we always do it on a cedar plank.

And it's cedar plank is gonna give a certain kind of smoky quality to the fish. So what you do is you soak it first. So that's a big part of it.

You soak it underwater as long as you can, 20 minutes or more, and then you put the fish on it. And so being wet keeps it from burning up, but it sends this little slightly smoky steam through the Fish, so it's keeping it moist too.

What I like is you can put the fish on the board and then you can drizzle your sauce over it. You're not flipping it and so everything stays on it. So it can be a really beautiful presentation, a really great way to layer flavors well.

Now I want to do that. So I have two more filets in my freezer. So Michael and I are going to do some cedar plank salmon, I think next for sure.

Thank you for answering all of Katie's numerous questions.

Katie, sign up for our email list.

Katie, sign up for the email. Maybe you'll win $50 in the gift card drawing.

I've just really enjoyed this time to dive into. You know, I love that we use two different wines and to tell the difference.

That was really fun and they both worked. I think the conclusion of our hypothesis here was either one of these could work. And I will put the link in the show notes for all of your things.

Of course. Sina, see your website, all three wines that we talked about today, your social media so our people can find you and follow that.

I have to say I knew I was gonna enjoy our conversation and I was so excited because again, I love fish and I love learning about other women entrepreneurs and business owners.

But my surprising takeaway from our conversation that I'm just like so filled with joy was the parallels that we found not only between you and I, but between wine and fishing, between being small and family owned and how important the customer is. With Michael and I, we make a tiny bit of wine and have a very small business that we do direct to consumer.

You have a small business going direct to consumer. And we need customers and we need people to understand the importance of sustainability in grapes and fish.

Sustainability and packaging, which we're both focusing on.

Absolutely. Thank you. And I hope we get to try this again sometimes that's just.

I don't know if you saw that in the 19 page contract I sent you to be a guest. There is no contract, people.

But you have to come back and we have to do more of this and maybe we'll do some oysters and crab next time and then I'll make sure I send you some viognier for that.

Oh, and I need you to try some sable fish. It's the high fat white fish with just so rich. That would be really fun.

Bring it on, sister. I really am sitting here just kind of stunned at how delicious that was.

How easy it was to make the Poke bowl, because like you heard me say, I eat them all the time, but I've never made one. And how interesting and fun it was to pair two very different wines and see the outcome. And also to hear Sina's reactions.

I'm sorry you were along for the ride while we were just nerding out like, deep, I mean, terroir and Marois. Come on. This is why I do this.

I hope that you're getting as much joy out of it as I am, because I just think that was really interesting and cool and different and exciting and I can't wait for you to taste this fish. Get the Copper River Sockeye Salmon. Make the Poke bowl that I did. It's fantastic.

Whether you get Pride Viognier or the beautiful Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Noir, which I'll put those Sip Spotlight wines links in the show notes so you know how to get them.

And I think you should absolutely sign up for Sina's email list@sinac.com and check out all the beautiful and different fish that they have on their website. It's not just salmon. There's a lot of other really interesting and delicious options there too. And you can even sign up for a subscription.

Healthy fish delivered easy. Love that. Check out her super fun and interesting recipes.

And like she said, by being on the email list, you will be entered into a 50 gift card drawing every month that you can put towards beautiful fish coming right to your doorstep. If you'd like to be an angel and support the podcast, you can do so with the link in the show notes. Buy me a glass of wine.

Heck, buy me a salmon filet. I'll be forever grateful. Whatever it goes towards, I hope you learned and laughed. And as always, between now and next time, I hope that you sip well.