Is there really a light people see after death? In this deeply thought-provoking episode of Spirits and Stories, we explore the mysteries surrounding the life and death journey with spiritual teacher Michael Waters. Drawing from extraordinary afterlife experiences, Michael shares his work in psychopomp work — the practice of crossing lost souls into the light — guided by Native American spirit guides.

The conversation dives into landlocked spirits, reincarnation, spirit guides, and the life review many believe occurs after death. We also examine the relationship between consciousness and energy, shamanic journeying, emotional healing, and how unresolved trauma may influence spiritual lessons beyond this life.

From mystical experiences and paranormal encounters to discussions about remote viewing and indigo children, this episode challenges conventional thinking while offering a compassionate perspective on death, healing past traumas, and the nature of the afterlife.

If you’ve ever questioned what happens when we die, how spiritual guidance works, or whether consciousness survives the body, this episode will leave you reflecting long after it ends.

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Welcome to Spirits and Stories, a place where we slow things down and talk about the moments that shaped us.

The stories behind the scars, the victories, the lessons.

Every guest brings a journey, so settle in.

This one's meant to be felt.

Hey, welcome everybody to Spirits and Stories.

Today we have got Mr. Michael Waters.

He is a author, a spiritual teacher focused on the journey between life and death.

Alongside his late wife Kathy, he learned and practiced psychopomp work helping lost souls cross into the light.

Their teachings came through Native American spirit guides on their own land in Washington state.

Michael is the co author of a book documenting these extraordinary experiences.

Welcome to the show.

Michael, how are you doing?

Thank you.

I'm doing great today.

Yeah, man, it's been a busy day for me, but it's been a productive day.

So I like those kind of days.

So why don't we dive into a little bit of back history.

What I know you guys have had some experiences that, that brought you to this path in life.

Talk a little bit about what brought you there.

And as we were looking for somewhere else to live, we wanted to get to a warmer, nicer climate because Washington, Seattle area can be kind of dreary in the wintertime.

And we were looking at Arizona, California, Puerto Rico.

Who else?

Florida.

And as we were doing this, my wife began to have these dreams.

We had been in this house for probably over 20 years by that time.

And there had always been a lore when we bought the house, the lore was that there was an Indian burial ground somewhere on our property.

We had about a half acre of heavily forested treed area and it was all green belt all around us.

We had neighbors on either side of us, but nobody in front of us.

It was just a cedar river was in front of us and behind us it was just a hillside that was.

Didn't have anybody for miles.

So we, or I should say she began to have these dreams that these Native Americans were coming to her in her sleep.

She was having these, I guess you'd call them lucid dreams.

They were very, very real, very.

We're engaging.

And these Native Americans told her that they lived on the property, which didn't surprise us that much because we, we thought there might be something like that.

But the thing that was surprising is they asked, they asked her to stay on the property and they told her not to move or asked her not to move.

And she's like, okay, well, let's see how this plays.

Out.

And, and she said, well, why don't you want me to move?

He said, because we have work for you.

We have work for you.

Do we want to teach you how to do the crossover lost souls into the light?

We're like, wow, okay.

So they began to teach her how to do this, and she actually got pretty good at it.

They would.

First they would bring her spirits, and sometimes they were a little bit hostile.

They, they didn't want to go into the light.

They, they were, they were kind of unrepentant about some of the things that they did because it seems like most of the people that don't go into the light don't go in for a reason.

And the reason is usually because they have some, some loved one to watch after.

They don't feel like because of their religion or just their morals that they don't feel like they deserve to go into the light.

They've, let's say they committed some kind of heinous crime or something or child molester or Hitler or whoever it was.

And so there's a lot of these, these souls that do not, after they die, go into the light like what's normally supposed to happen.

They get reincarnated.

Reincarnated.

They come back, they learn whatever they were supposed to learn in this life.

If not, they got to come back and do it again and basically learn from this life and come back and learn either a new lesson or relearn what they didn't learned the first time.

But when people don't cross into the light, they're.

They just kind of.

We call them landlocked spirits.

And they are, they're basically frustrated old ghosts really is what they are.

And they don't have any power to, to help these loved ones.

They stayed behind to watch after they, they don't have any power whatsoever.

And eventually they, they, they begin to kind of, I guess you could say, muck up the spiritual works.

Because we, we have all of these, these people that are stuck here on earth that have not moved on, and they're, they're kind of sticking up the, the, the flow of how we're supposed to die, go into the light, get reincarnated, learn our lessons, carnate into a new body, and then keep doing that until we raise our level, our energy up to a highest, higher level.

And I guess that's the whole reason that this system is in place.

That's what we were told anyway.

And by the way, I'm not an expert.

I'm an expert on what we experienced, but I'M not an expert on this, but I have had some experience, and I'm happy to share it with anybody who wants to listen.

So do you have any other questions?

So, yeah, I mean, I got lots of questions.

Okay.

Fire away.

So, you know, I. I just recently have gotten involved in the spiritual world, you know, and.

And I think all of us find this path eventually for one reason or another.

And.

And for me, it happened after this last year.

We.

We've experienced so much death.

I mean, my wife had lost her.

Her father late last year.

I lost my mom in April.

She lost her mom just a few months ago.

So 20, 25.

Really pissing the ass.

Yeah.

It kind of brought me to, you know, a point in my life where I'm just like, what is, what is going on?

Why is it that we don't even get time to recover?

It's just bam, bam, bam.

And, yeah, you know, I've learned a lot since then, but it brought me to this path and, and it connected me with other people.

And, And I believe exactly what you just said, that we do come to this earth, teach lessons and learn lessons.

And sometimes the people that we meet are designed by purpose for one reason or another, to help you learn a lesson.

Or maybe you were there to help them learn a lesson, but exactly, not always are you meant to be there from the beginning to the end for your whole life.

Sometimes, once that lesson's learned and it's time to move on, things split up, and it's.

It's just a matter of what lessons you were supposed to learn, what lessons the other person was supposed to learn.

And then again, like you said, you pass on and you get the opportunity, if you'd like, to come back and learn more lessons or try to figure out the lessons you didn't learn the last time.

Eventually you become a spirit guide yourself or you just stop progressing.

That has made a lot more sense to me because a lot of people say, well, there's no science behind that.

Well, I kind of disagree, because, one, our brains are ran off of electrical signals, which is a form of energy.

Consciousness is a fact that it can be moved.

It's not contained just in your.

Your mind.

We prove that through remote viewing and, and a lot of other types of systems that's been discovered.

So my point being is there's a lot more out there that we don't know yet.

Oh, yeah.

And it's just because our conscious says, you don't get to learn this just yet.

It's not time, and it blocks it For a reason, because it would prevent you from learning the lessons that you need to learn.

So.

Yeah.

When you're dealing with these people that refuse to move on for, for whatever reason.

Right.

Is that something that is explained of, hey, you know, on the other side, you're going to meet guides and, and people there that are to help you and, and put you back on that right path.

Just because you move on doesn't mean you, you don't get to check in on your, your loved ones or, or the other spirits that you were meant to help.

Is that something that's explained as well?

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

I'm glad you brought that up actually, because every time that we cross somebody into the light, besides being unbelievably emotional, you know, you just.

Tears just come to your eyes because it's just such a beautiful transition, you know, And I was brought up Catholic and they actually call it a sacrament.

And although I'm not really Catholic now, I'm a fallen away Catholic, it definitely gives credence to the fact that there is something else going on that not only the Catholic Church, but many of the churches do not recognize.

For most religions, except maybe some of the Eastern religions, it's pretty cut and dried.

You live a good life, you go to heaven and end of story.

And I mean, that's not it at all from what I can see.

It's, it's not even the beginning because we have come back into this life many, many, many times.

Some of us, some of us have been here for eons, Some of us have only been here for a short time.

And I'm not exactly sure where those spirits are coming from.

If they're coming from someplace else, obviously they're coming from someplace else.

Where that is, I really don't know.

But there's new spirits and there's old spirits.

And it's very fascinating right now with all the indigo children and these unbelievably gifted, usually autistic kids that are just unbelievably smart and they seem to have all this inherent knowledge from God knows where and there they are and nobody seems to have an explanation for that.

And I think it's fascinating.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that's the one argument that a lot of people try to make is, is science.

They want to bounce back to science and say, well, you know, there's no scientific proof that what we're talking about here truly exists.

Yeah.

And there's also no scientific proof that it doesn't, you know.

Yeah, exactly.

There's no measurement for this, there's no multimeter, no electrical device, there's no, no gauge, no, no method that you can measure this and, and find out whether it's true or not true.

Yeah.

You know, I do believe that we all have these gifts.

It's not that that we don't have the gifts, but you have to be able to put yourself in the ability to, to experience these.

And if you're not ready for it, they're not going to let you see it.

Yeah, yeah.

I used to work with a guy a long, long time ago when I was young and he was an engineer and we used to have lunch every day and we used to have these crazy God talks.

I was pro God and he was a self proclaimed atheist.

And it finally came down to where I told him one day, you know what, you have just as much faith as I do.

And he says, oh no I don't, I don't have any faith.

And I said, sure you do.

You have a faith that there isn't a God.

I have a faith that there is a God and I'm not really a Bible banger or particularly religious, but I just thought that was, I mean I believed that there was a God and there was a unity or something that was designing the universe that we are in and because it was just seems so absurd to me that everything was random and willy nilly and there was no rhyme or reason to anything.

I mean, I have a hard time wrapping my head around that.

Yeah, yeah, me too.

100 and you know, everybody talks about, you know, is there UFOs, is there not UFOs and, and I do believe that there's other existence on there, what it is, intelligence level, none of that stuff, I have no idea.

But yeah, I do believe that God didn't just create this one little planet and then said, you know what, I got tons of storage space, you know, and not do anything else with it.

Yeah, it just makes no sense to me.

So yeah, I do believe that there is other life.

I have had medians tell me that there is other life and that heaven is a place that all spirits go from wherever you came from.

And it's a dimensional space.

It's not like what people think of Pearly Gates.

And, and yeah, nope, you're not on the list.

Yeah, down you go.

You know, it's, it's a dimension level.

And, and the higher up in that level you go, the, the more you learn, the more you see and, and so forth.

So I do believe, you know, that's what I picture it to be more like.

And just because of the fact that the way our consciousness works, it makes perfect sense that God would be a form of an energy or something like that versus, you know, what.

We've got him pictured in the movies and everything else.

The other part too is all these people that say, well, I don't believe in, and spirits and ghosts and everything else.

And I said, well, then why do you refer to God as the Holy Spirit?

You obviously believe in spirits, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's for sure.

I think we have a hard time putting our, our head around things that, that we can't see, touch, feel.

That's really what it comes down to.

Well, it all comes down to the scientific, what do they call it, model, where you part, part of the way that science decides whether something is real or, or something is actually valid is if they can reproduce that experiment over and over and over and over and over again.

And it always has the same results.

But you know that they're kind of throwing out the baby with the bathwater by saying that because there's, there's so much that, that it, it defies logic.

They did this really famous experiment where they, where they had these, these light protons and they were all kind of random, but they had a pattern.

And they tried all types of different, different ways to make these patterns do the same thing every time.

And, and so the, and I'm probably screwing this up really bad, but this is what I remember.

And so that they had something called the observer effect is when somebody was watching it, these particles behave differently than when someone wasn't watching it.

And so it really, it really begs the question, okay, so are these, are these particles, do they somehow have intelligence?

Do they know they've been watched?

Been watched?

I mean, you know, it asks, it causes me to ask all kinds of questions because I'm very inquisitive person like you.

And so it's quite fascinating.

Yeah, I agree 100%.

You know, at the end of the day, there's just.

There's so many things on Earth that we don't even fully understand.

Right.

We haven't explored all of the oceans yet, you know.

Oh, yeah.

And, and so if we can say that there's, we're still finding new creatures and animals, you know, species throughout, you know, our time, and that's where we're living.

That's here.

Imagine what's out there that we can't see, can't get to, can't drive, you know, So I agree 100% and I kind of feel that's the way.

The reason why remote viewing didn't get the bigger okay from the government.

Right.

Is because it, you know, scientifically requires that it can be repeatable, just like you said.

And I think a lot of times they were more like 70% in that range.

But if you don't fully understand what you're doing, how you're doing it and how to control it, isn't it quite possible that there's variables that we don't see or know yet?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

So I agree that not everything falls in that realm.

That's what I was trying to say.

You know, you can't, you can't put science to things that you, you haven't even began to understand.

But you look at a lot of the dimensional work with.

What is it called?

I lost the name of it.

Anyways, scientifically, they're starting to prove that there is different realms, different dimensions, the way light moves and all of this just with math and.

Yeah, that's what it is.

Quantum physics.

That's quantum physics, right, Exactly.

Yeah.

I just, just saw something in one of the, not newspaper, but the Internet news, and it said that they have actually quantified a, or verified that there is a state between life and death.

There's a third state that they're saying exists now, which is really interesting because it really lends credence to what I was talking about, landlocked spirits, because that's.

They would be.

Yeah, yep, 100%.

Well, let's, let's dive a little bit into what is the process.

So, I mean, do you guys have like an email?

Somebody emails you and says, hey, check it out, I'm locked, help me out.

You know, how does, how does that whole process work as far as being notified or, you know, or, or do they come to you in dreams or is it more like a medium where there's, there's signal signs?

Well, my wife was a medium.

She had medium skills.

I, I never did.

I used to communicate with the other side through shamanic journeying.

Shamanic journey work, which is there's two ways that you can go into a shamanic trance.

One is drumming.

It's rapid drumming.

It's like.

And it put, and it's kind of like binaural beats.

It puts your brain in a, a meditative state and then you are able to go and be and see things that you would normally ordinarily see.

In.

In your conscious state.

The other way to do it is through hallucinogens.

You can do that through hallucinogens.

The Native Americans used out a lot peyote, and there was a lot of other.

Especially South America ayahuasca.

You know, there was all types of different hallucinogens that they used also.

But.

But I chose to use the drumming.

There was a gentleman named Michael Harner, and he did a book.

He was an anthropologist.

He was very famous.

He actually started a foundation, and he taught people how to do this shamanic work and all of the different things that you can do with shamanisma, healing, psychopomp work, which is helping spirits crossing into the light.

Like what we were doing, journey work, you know, just getting tied into your own higher self or your spirit guides, your spirit guides, you can actually communicate with them.

So I use that to communicate with the.

With the spirits that we made contact with.

And it's interesting that you should say that, because we used to call it the tap, like, bonk, bonk, bonk, you know, on your shoulder.

And.

And what it.

What it would feel like.

It was.

It feel like butterflies in your stomach.

And it's like.

It's like, oh, someone needs to cross over, you know?

And so either my wife would get it or I would get it, or sometimes we both get it at the same time, and it's like, oh, okay.

And so what happened originally is my wife, like I said, the Native Americans, through lucid dreams, used to teach her how to do this work and said, okay, this is what you.

And then they'd critique her after work.

They say, okay, this is what you're doing wrong.

This is what you're doing right.

You keep up the good work, you're doing fine, you know?

And so she was very encouraged, and I just pretty much thought that I was going to be backup for her.

Well, we're out at the barbecue one night, and she goes, oh, I got the tap.

I said, oh, my goodness.

Okay, well, you better go take care of it.

And so we were outside, like I said.

We had a big backyard, big barbecue, and we.

So she went to the other side of the yard, and I saw her, and she was having a hell of a time over there.

She was kind of upset, and she kept looking at me and shaking her head and was like, wow, what's going on?

And so I was watching her, and I was thinking to myself, God, I wonder if I can help her, huh?

I'm gonna try.

And so I just pictured in my mind this huge ball of light.

And I, I did my best to try to expand it as much as I could.

And so I did that.

And then all of a sudden, my wife.

And then I kind of came out of it.

I looked over and my wife had just big surprise look on her, right?

Her eyes were huge.

And she.

And she walks over and she goes, whoa, that was so weird.

You said.

I said, what happened?

And she said, well, this.

They brought me this lady.

And she was, she was horrible.

Oh my God.

She was swearing at me and saying, I killed my husband and how dare you drag me into the light.

And I'm not going, and you can go to hell.

And she was just obnoxious.

And she said, I, I killed my husband and now.

And then I killed myself, and nobody can tell me what to do and blah, blah, blah.

And then all of a sudden, when I was concentrating on opening the light, she turns, looks at the light, walks right in.

Boom.

Gone.

And it's like, what the hell just happened?

My wife was just like, whoa.

So she comes over, she tells me this, and I'm like, wow.

And she goes, what do you think happened?

I said, I don't know.

I said, I, I.

It might have something to do with what, what I did.

And she goes, well, what did you do?

And I said, well, I was concentrating on expanding the light and helping because it looked like you were having a really hard time.

She goes, I was, I, I was about ready to tell the lady, I'm sorry, I can't help you.

Go away.

And so we started doing that method where we would both expand the light.

And Joseph, our spirit, one of our spirit guides that was on the property, believe it or not, our own property, told us that we, we were on different energy levels.

We could do the, the same type of work, but we were on different energy levels.

My wife was more psychic than I was, but I had a much easier time doing shamanic journeys.

She had a really hard time do shamanic journeys.

For some reason, I think a psychic would be really good at it, but she had a hard time.

And so we came at that same problem from different angles.

And so it made us be able to open the light wider or better.

I can't remember exactly what Joseph told us, but that was what he said.

He says, because we are in different energy levels, we bring a different type of energy, and so it's stronger than one of us could do by ourselves.

And so that's how we got started doing, doing the work together, which was.

It was amazing.

It was pretty cool.

Yeah.

So When.

When what.

What is it that you think made.

She made it sound like you guys brought her to that light, and.

And she didn't want to leave.

But obviously there's.

There's somebody in the middle that is doing this.

It's not you.

I mean, you guys are not searching for these souls to.

To drag them to the light like Ghostbusters or something.

You know, there's.

There's a spirit on the other side that is connecting you guys.

Am I correct?

Yes.

Yes, there was.

Sometimes it was the.

It was always different.

Sometimes it was people's relatives.

They would.

They would try to bring us these people and.

And say, yeah, this is this person.

We really want them to go into the light.

Can you help them?

And I don't know why they didn't do it themselves, which I still don't know why they didn't do it themselves.

But anyway, we were there to help, and so we tried to help them.

Sometimes it was some types.

Some type of a wise, sage type person, and it was usually of the same nationality.

Like Chinese was helping Chinese.

Germans were Germans.

You know, it was.

It was.

It's just so fascinating to remember all of the bizarre things that have happened.

Yeah, that.

That was really something that makes sense to me because from what.

From the books that I've read and.

And the conversations that I've had, it kind of seems like the.

Your.

Your spiritual family, you know, and it doesn't necessarily mean that's who you're mom or dad was on Earth, but your.

Your spiritual family there when you pass.

And.

And yes, that is their.

Their goal is to one, kind of recalibrate you back into that side of the.

The realm.

Exactly.

It has to be similar to, like, birth, you know.

Yeah.

You're born and you have no recollection of everything that happened before that.

And I can imagine going into the other side is similar.

You know, when you pass and your spirit leaves your body and consciousness starts moving, and it has to be confusing.

Yeah.

And that was.

That was the biggest.

I'm glad you brought this up, because that was the biggest reason that people would go into the light, because a lot of times we would.

And the other cool thing is you got to talk to these people.

I. I don't.

And it.

And it was never with words.

It was always through our head.

You know, it was all.

It was like, psychic.

And so sometimes the people would want to go right in.

Boom, Open the door, blam.

They're gone.

And.

And other times they would have to be coaxed and convinced and the strongest method that we found to convince people, because sometimes these people had committed suicide, you know, they were feeling bad, they continue to feel bad in the afterlife because they're stuck in the in between area, kind of a purgatory, no man's land.

And that's the landlocked spirits realm.

And so they didn't think that anybody really wanted them or anybody expected them to or they didn't expect to have anybody on side waiting.

Well, it doesn't matter if you're how horrible you were in life, there's always, always somebody there that's waiting for you and wants you on the other side.

It could be your grandmother, your former wife, your kids, your, your neighbor.

I don't know who it is.

Sometimes it was, it was a couple of people, sometimes it was like several hundred people.

And so we would always have to tell them, no, no, no, no, there's always somebody there on the other side of that light.

Please just go there and check it out.

And they could see these people and then the heartstrings.

Oh my God.

You know, you, you're just, you just.

It's so emotional.

I mean it seems like the other side, the currency for their side is emotions and love and, and they would just get this huge amount of love and other side that would be coming at them from the light.

And so then they would go, wow, there is somebody there for me.

Wow, I didn't expect that.

It's like we told you.

And so then they would usually go.

I mean out of all of the people that we had crossed over, I can only remember less than three or four that did not decide to go.

Yeah, I think.

Would you also agree that maybe, you know, when you get on the other side, you know, one of the things that you have to do is, is go through the life review, right?

Yeah.

Everybody transforms that on this side of the plane as that's where you're judged.

Right.

We're taught that you're going to be judged and decided whether you go to heaven or hell.

Right.

But, but from what I've read, that is not what it is at all.

This is more like a review after you took a test and your teacher is going over the review of what you did right, what you did wrong, what questions were wrong and why they were wrong, and basically educating you on the mistakes you made.

But it's non judged and filled, full of love.

Would you agree that that also could be something that people are scared of?

I mean, if you were a horrible person on earth?

Yeah, totally.

They, a Lot of.

A lot of two.

I don't think people understand that.

That the you here is not the you there.

Right.

The.

The you there is made up of multiple.

Multiple experiences.

Like you said, you know, you.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

But you've got all those life experiences that are lessons to learn off of.

Yeah.

And it doesn't mean that you're either one of those people over there.

You may not be the king over there.

You may not be the bum over there.

You know, you.

You were just a different person learning lessons in a way that is taught to a spirit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we never really got to see those kind of dynamics.

We just got them into the light and then everything happened for them after that.

I do know that I made.

Like I said, my.

And I did a shamanic journey to her just.

Just to talk to her and find out, in fact, many.

And she said that she had a new job.

And I was like, really?

What are you doing?

And she said, well, I am.

And she was a teacher.

And.

And she said, I. I am in charge of these children, these indigo children, which are the newer souls that want to come to Earth, and they want to check out what it's going to be like and learn what they can do with their life when they.

It incarnates here.

And so she was teaching souls.

She was kind of like doing almost like you were talking about remote viewing.

Almost like remote viewing where she.

She could show them what it looks like.

So she kind of turned into a spirit guide for these kids.

Yeah, or these.

I don't know if you'd call them kids with these souls that wanted to come in and incarnate into Earth, which I thought was amazing.

Yeah, me too.

I think that's pretty cool as well.

But.

But again, it aligns exactly with what we were just saying.

Exactly.

That it's hard telling how many trips to Earth she's made and how many lessons and.

And she's finally probably leveled up and.

And now is on another path of preparing, you know, and being that guide.

Maybe she's not going to be with them while they're honor, but she's their guide over there preparing them for that, you know.

Exactly.

And there's.

There's one thing that's really interesting that I should bring up and that is the fact that from what we could tell, because we always.

We would always ask lots of questions.

I mean, it's like having the keys to the kingdom at your feet.

And so of course you're going to ask questions.

So we would ask questions all the time.

And one of the questions I asked one time was where, let's see, how did I ask that?

Where do you go?

I mean, what, when, when you cross over, obviously you get, you go through your, your evaluation of life and then you get a new job or a newer incarnation or go to a different planet or wherever you go, whatever it is.

But who, who decides that?

And, and how does this happen?

And they said, well, we decide that ourself.

What we, how we, if we want to reincarnate or if we want to hang out and be a spirit guide for somebody or, or do something else.

But one thing that was really surprising is how much movement there is.

I mean, you think of dead as being dead.

You know, like you're in a coffin somewhere and you're not moving and, and you're just have eaten spiritual bon bons.

And I don't know what you're doing, but you know, you're just.

But the afterlife is super busy.

I mean, I was shocked.

I mean, these people are.

And nothing seems to be static at all.

Everybody's moving, everybody's.

Has different jobs at different times.

Everybody's advancing or maybe declining.

I don't know.

And so there's, there's, there's all this movement in the afterlife, which is kind of shocking.

I didn't expect that either.

And to me that makes sense as well.

Right.

I, you know, since I've been on this journey as far as learning, I have rethought of cemeteries as more like junkyards.

Right.

It's just a place where our vehicles go to die.

Yeah.

Something new.

And that's really what our bodies are, is, is our spirits, cars and transportation.

And once, once the batteries go dead and the wheels fall off, it moves on.

Yeah.

And I think over there we, we have a hard time picturing like what you said because we think of all the things that we have to do during the day.

Right.

There's, there's, there's, and there's requirements.

We have to sleep, we have to eat, have to drink water, you know, or our wheels and batteries are going to go dead much faster.

Right.

Yeah.

And over there you don't have those things.

At least I would assume that you don't have to sleep and eat and go to the bathroom.

So your focus is different because here all those things are based off of time.

I know breakfast is at one time.

I Know, dinner, you know, bathroom times.

You usually kind of set to a routine.

All these things are done based off of a clock.

That doesn't exist over there.

No, it doesn't exist.

There is no time over there.

I mean, when we crossed over, people, sometimes they were from ancient Egypt, sometimes they were from the World War II, sometimes they were from yesterday, you know, and it was just.

It was all the same to them.

And because.

Because you don't use your voice to talk, you use your mind to talk.

It is like a universal translator.

I mean, these people could be ancient, whatever, Abyssinians, you know, that I don't even speak Abyssinian.

But it doesn't matter because it.

It's all.

It's all like a universal translator that comes right from your mind into their mind and you talk.

And so it's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

Now, is a lot of this done through your.

Your chakras?

Is that where a lot of that stuff is that?

Okay, that's what I kind of figured.

Yep.

Yeah, it's.

It's through your chakras.

It's through your third eye.

I remember my.

My son was kind of got into the whole shamanism thing before we did.

And he was like.

He told us one time, he goes, man, you guys, third eye is open all the time.

I was like, oh, okay.

Is that good?

He says, yeah, okay, good.

Yeah.

So with these experiences, right?

I. I mean, I already know the answer to this question because I would have done the same thing.

What, what brough decide to write a book?

Well, that's an interesting story too, because neither my wife or I had any experience writing a book that was.

This is our first and only book.

And.

But the Native American spirits asked us to write it.

They said it is important for you to share your experiences because nobody has been writing books like this that people need to know this stuff.

And we're like, okay.

And they actually sent us some help.

Believe it or not, they bel.

They.

They sent us this spirit that we worked with, and his name was Prometheus.

And he was.

He was what they call an elemental spirit, which is some kind of an earth spirit.

And he told us that he was a human at one time, and then he morphed into this earth spirit.

And.

And he was kind of a character.

He was kind of snarky, but I really liked him.

And smart, very smart.

And he said, I don't like humans.

And it's like, oh, you don't like me?

And he says, no, you're okay.

But yeah, it was a.

It was a Trip.

Yeah.

But he.

He gave us some really good pointers on when you're writing the book, because like I said, you know, we weren't.

We weren't authors, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

And probably your next question that.

That I'm gonna try to answer for you, that you're probably thinking of is how did you even begin to write something like this?

And what we did was we took our journals.

We did extensive journals.

Why?

I don't know, but I'm glad that we did.

Then we were able to use it to write the book.

But we took our.

These are just our own experiences that came right out of our journals, and that's what we built the book around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, that's the same on the veteran side, and I wish I would had done it.

You know, I have noticed veterans that did journaling through their military career put out a better product and a better story.

Yeah.

When they decide to write their book, their memoirs.

Yeah.

And I did not do that.

And it made it harder because I spent so much time in different locations.

I spent 68 months between Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

And a lot of times I would tell my stories.

I would get into that point and then halfway through it and go, oh, wait a minute.

No, that wasn't Afghanistan.

That was Iraq.

Yeah.

Places.

Because I didn't write any of this stuff down.

Oh, yeah.

I think, you know, kudos to you guys because I think that you're right.

That helps tremendously.

Let me.

Let me ask you this.

When.

When you wrote the book and, And.

And your wife had passed, are.

Are you still doing the Helping souls pass over and.

And is your wife helping any still?

She was in the beginning.

She's not.

She told me that when she got this new job, she was helping these children find their.

Or preview their.

Their incarnation and what it'd be like and, you know, whether they wanted to do it or not do it or go to someplace else or somebody else.

And she said.

Could you ask me that again?

Yeah, I was just asking, after your wife had passed, does she still help with.

As far as.

Oh, right, right.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Basically, she.

When she got busy with her work, she.

She didn't do it as much.

And so I just did it myself.

And I actually TR.

About three people to do it with me sometimes.

And then they.

They started doing it on themselves.

Two ladies that I.

That I had, I got into hypnotherapy because I thought it was really fascinating.

So two of them learned it, and then the other lady, I'm trying To remember where she.

Where she, who.

Where she was from?

Oh, she was one of the people that I went to Egypt with.

I ended up going on an Egypt trip to a spiritual Egypt trip, which was really fascinating.

And that was the other person that I entrained.

And it's a very trainable skill.

I mean, shamans used to train other shamans and other people in their tribes or.

Yeah, you know, how to.

How to do this type of work because it was necessary.

So, yeah, it's very trainable.

When, when you've started doing it now by yourself, have you ran into that same situation where your wife was struggling before, now that you are alone, have you ran into a situation that.

That you've had a hard time with?

Not really, no.

It seems like the more of it you do, the easier it gets.

That would make sense.

And, and what's really interesting is I have a construction company, and several of my.

My clients have passed away, and they asked me to help them cross, you know, at least check on them to see if.

Make sure that they crossed over.

So that was pretty fascinating to actually cross over people that I actually knew.

Yeah, so that.

That was.

That was fascinating.

And then I had a friend of mine who I was doing some retreats with, and she asked me to try and find a girl who was murdered.

And that was really fascinating.

I wasn't able to find her, but I was able to give the police some.

Some pointers that they didn't have.

And that.

That was really interesting.

And then they finally solved the case.

I think that would be.

I mean, I.

Again, I'm just learning.

I just now, within the last six months have started learning.

So I think that would be really cool if.

If I ever was able to develop skills, I would like to be able to do that.

Help find missing people or.

Yeah.

Solve crimes and bring, you know, bring some relief to the.

The victims as well, the families.

Yeah, you know, I think that would be really cool.

So my hats off to you for.

For, you know, even helping, you know, whether.

Whether it turned out good or not.

You know, at least.

At least you took that time to help.

That's awesome.

And I didn't even know that I was capable of doing that, to tell you the truth.

I was like, well, okay, I'll give it a try.

But yeah, yeah, you know, with.

I always go back to remote viewing, and maybe that was like my gateway drug to this was, you know, just being retired military.

When I learned about that program that the.

The government tried and how it helped with discovering what the Russians were doing and so forth.

I just.

I felt how fascinating it was, and I think that's just the beginning.

You know, that is.

That is like touching the kiddie pool with your toes and waiting to get in, because, yeah, it just proves how much your consciousness can move.

And the main guy, his name was Joe.

I forget his last name, but I remember him telling a story about how he was asleep at a hotel and the local authorities called him, and he was grouchy, and they said that they were looking for a lost child.

He told them where to go.

They told one of the.

The police men that were looking to go here and walk X number of steps in this direction and then call out their name.

And the guy got to that point and said, hey, you know, I've done a lot of education on missing children, and the direction they're telling me to go is up a hill, and a child would never go that direction.

And so they called Joe back, and he was.

Now he's really mad.

They woke him up again, and he said, did you do what I told you to do?

And they said, no, and this is why.

And he said, well, do what I told you to do and leave me alone.

And so the guy did it, and it turned out that the kid walked that direction because he found a light on a porch.

He remembered his dad said, if you ever get lost, walk towards a light.

Walk towards it.

Yeah, that's why.

And the kid was asleep on the porch perfectly fine.

Again, that was.

Was another method that.

How do you explain that?

He wasn't even in a town.

He was there for a conference, so he wasn't even in a town that he was familiar with, didn't know the local police department, didn't know the child that was lost, didn't know the families of the child, and was able to direct them to help.

So maybe we can't measure it, improve it, and repeat it 100%.

And, man, what is the odds of that.

Yeah, yeah.

You were talking about remote viewing, you know, and.

And they've made a kind of a big deal of it.

Oh, yeah, we don't do that anymore.

But I have a feeling that the Russians, the Chinese, the Americans, they're all doing it.

It's just more quiet now.

Oh, 100%.

You know, the.

The thing that.

That he really got known for with that program.

Right.

It wasn't actually the fact that it had been taken off and gotten big, but when he got the.

The information about the submarine that was building, and he told them there was, like, information going back and forth between them and, and he would give them what he seen and they would respond back with smart ass comments like that won't even float.

You know, it's physically impossible.

Physics says that that won't work.

Right.

You know, and, and it come to find out he was almost spot on, like 98%.

And, and what kept throwing him off was where they were going to launch it.

They had to move the submarine to that area to put it in the water.

It wasn't being built next to the water, so that was one of the things that was throwing it all off.

But you can't tell me when they realized that he was correct in what he did, they were going to down the road say, oh, we're not going to do this no more.

We don't want this kind of intel anymore.

Yeah, it's just too valuable to him.

That would happen.

You know, I mean, he was, he was like three days and 70 miles off from like a meteor hitting the ocean or something like that.

There was a spot that it, it hit the water and they didn't know exactly when or where it was going to hit.

It was within 70 miles in just a couple days.

That's, that's pretty close.

Yeah.

What is?

I mean, you're talking about how the two thirds of the earth is covered in water and you, you were within 70 miles of, of it.

Yeah, that's pretty accurate.

Pretty damn good, that's for sure.

Yeah, I, I don't think this is something that, that science, you know, is, is something that, that you have to have faith and without it and, and the ability to believe in things that you just can't physically see, then I think, I think you're going to have a hard time adjusting and.

Yeah.

Causes you to have problems when you pass, you know, who knows?

Yeah.

And I think that science needs to redefine how they validate things.

I mean, because they're not taking into account that the human condition, the human spirit, our senses, you know, that that's all stuff that they don't even count, you know, it's like, oh no, it's too unreliable.

Well, it's not unreliable.

It's just a different way of gathering information that they're not taking advantage of.

Yeah.

Yep.

You are, you are 100.

Correct.

Well, Michael, I'm gonna give you the opportunity, man, to, to tell everybody where they can find your book and, and follow you and learn more about what you're doing and, and all that good stuff.

Yeah, well, actually, I'm not really selling the book.

I'm just giving it away because it was.

It was never something that we wanted to do to make money.

It was just something that we were asked to do to spread.

Spread the word and let people know that this.

This type of stuff is out there.

And so, yeah, anybody that.

That wants a free copy of the book, I'll see if I can send you a link and they can download it for free.

Sounds great.

I will make sure that we post the link and let everybody know that it is free and they're welcome to download it and view it as well.

That'd be great, Mike.

I had a great time.

I could go on for hours on this topic just because I am so fascinated with it and I do believe in the things that you're saying, and there's too many other people that are saying the same things for it to not be true.

So.

Yeah, yeah, a lot.

A lot of this has been coming out the last 20 years.

Yeah, it's amazing.

It really is.

And.

And it's.

That's a positive sign for humanity because it means that there's more people with an open mind than what there used to be.

And that's.

Oh, absolutely.

So, yeah.

Well, I hope everybody that listen to the show got a little bit out of it.

I know I did.

And if you.

If you have questions, you know, you can reach out to Michael, you can download the.

The book that he had wrote and.

And learn more.

Make sure you keep an open mind.

Make sure you keep studying and learning, because there's so much more out there that we don't know yet.

So y' all take care.

Be safe.

Don't forget.

Don't let the day kick your ass.

Kick the day's ass.

Amen.