Shownotes
Zach did everything he was supposed to do went to college, got the tech job, bought the house.
Then one day he looked around and realized he couldn't fix a single thing without calling someone.
That bothered him enough to start learning skills on the side while keeping his white collar career going.
What started as picking up welding and hunting turned into serious research about what happened to trades in this country and why people treat that kind of work like it's beneath them.
When he was eliminated his tech position after 12 years and his savings ran out after 11 months, those side skills kept him afloat.
Trapping and taxidermy paid the bills until he landed another tech role. COVID sped up what he'd already figured out being completely dependent on everything working perfectly all the time is a bad bet.
We talk about how schools systematically got rid of shop classes, why looking down on skilled work makes no sense, and how learning to handle things yourself changes what you think you're capable of.
Highlights
- How realizing you can't handle basic problems in your own life pushes you to learn practical skills even while working a desk job.
- Why education policy changes over decades systematically removed shop classes and created the skilled worker shortage we're dealing with now.
- The confidence that comes from learning hands-on skills carries over into everything else you do, not just the specific task you learned.
- How many people are quietly interested in becoming more self-reliant but won't say it out loud because of what others might think.
- Why the idea that white collar jobs are secure and blue collar work is beneath people turned out to be completely backwards.
Make sure to subscribe to Blue Collar BS where we explore how different generations approach work, leadership, and building careers in the trades.
Do you want to hear more stories like Zach's that challenge what you thought was possible and inspire you to try something different? We've got some amazing guests lined up!
Get in touch with Zach:
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Transcripts
Welcome back to BlueCallerBS, everyone! How you doing today, Brad?
Brad Herda (:I am wonderful Mr. Stephen Doyle and how are you on this great, what is it? fuck it's September. Shit. September already Stephen.
Steve Doyle (:It is. It is in it very much fall and I freaking love it. It's cool and it's the leaves are starting to turn and I am freaking loving it. No, no, no can't come soon enough. Befall all season long. I'll take fall all season all day every day. Listen here cupcake. It's fall time. Let's go.
Brad Herda (:Too soon. Too soon. Too soon. Too soon.
Brad Herda (:Whatever. Whatever. That's you. Shut up, you little millennial fuck, you. Shut up.
Steve Doyle (:Well, I can't help it that you like your PSLs. So, you know, you and your PSLs, you and your PSLs can go over in the corner. Your pumpkin spice latte.
Brad Herda (:What?
Brad Herda (:I don't know what that is. You're going to have to help the old guy out as to what PSL is. I don't know. Oh.
Steve Doyle (:Your pumpkin spice latte. You and all the other suburban moms can go over in the corner.
Brad Herda (:I sure whatever man, whatever you say.
Steve Doyle (:Yep, yep. So who do we got on the show today, Brad?
Brad Herda (:We have a gentleman his name is Zachary Hansen. He is the author of the book the trade gap Which he was so kind to send to me adjunct professor of computer sciences Boise State advent hunter Data guy does all sorts of things the guys off the grid. He is on the grid off the grid does trapping Just a very unique individual and we talked about our trade stuff. I said, hey, let's get them on the show So Zach, welcome to the show from Boise, Idaho. It was a rhyme
Steve Doyle (:Nice.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, which by the way, screw you, Steve. Like it is a hundred degree day here in Boise.
Steve Doyle (:It is a 64 and amazing right now. So I love it.
Zach Hanson (:Like if I lift up my arms, you'll be able to just see the sweat pulling off of me right now, because I'm just so hot. Yeah, we're on a finally, allegedly, the trend down back into the September elk hunting weather you would expect, but it's not there yet. We're still 100 degree days for the next few, and then it has a steep drop off.
Brad Herda (:I had 61 here.
Brad Herda (:Are you serious? It's 100 and Boise today?
Steve Doyle (:Steve Doyle (02:10.875)
No, no hard pass, hard pass, hard pass.
Brad Herda (:and the weather. Holy shit.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, yeah, I shot a deer on opening day for early velvet bucksies and I drew a tag on August 15th and we were at like 8500 feet and even at like 8pm after we shot this deer and we're starting to butcher it was like 84 degrees on the side of a mountain. It was ridiculous.
Steve Doyle (:No, hard pass, hard pass.
Brad Herda (:I'll some ice.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, thankfully we had a cool river to kind of get the meat down and cooled off before we had to hike out.
Steve Doyle (:man, hard pass. before we forget, Zach, which generation do you identify or fit in with?
Brad Herda (:Yeah, because hiking out with a bunch of ice doesn't help.
Zach Hanson (:identification. I am a millennial. you know, I, am a millennial and I also identify as a millennial.
Steve Doyle (:Hahaha
Steve Doyle (:All right. All right. Well, that's good.
Brad Herda (:You'd be surprised how some people will not go in that category. they, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's all good. Cause there are many good things that come from every generation. Lots of opportunity. So, so what inspired you to write the book, the trade gap? I mean, let's just start there. Cause there's some interesting things and facts and data that you did a bunch of research on. So
Steve Doyle (:Yep, absolutely.
Zach Hanson (:Honestly, it was just the absolute crotch kick of getting a severance package from a Fortune 500 company I was working for. So, I mean, to summarize it in the shortest means possible is I had gotten like...
I fell into the college or bus trap of millennials. know, was go to a trade school or you go to the vocational school in your district, you were dumb. That's just what we were being pushed where I was at, where I grew up. So I went down that path, took on loads of debt, followed the prescribed white picket fence, manifest destiny, I guess you could call it. And I felt like a dog who caught up to a parked car finally, like after.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:six years of higher education, debt, scraped into a job in the tech industry, got out of debt, started building a little bit of that life with my ex-wife and it was hollow, it sucked. So long story short, I kind of got into hunting. That was like my little outlet. I was like, I'm gonna become self-reliant because at the time I was on planes every week, I was doing white collar work, I couldn't change the oil on my own car, I just didn't grow up around that stuff. So I went down a self-reliance path first.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:and ended up moving to Idaho after a divorce, became a hunter, a trapper, learned to weld, do little odds and ends, just become more well-rounded as a human. And then the hammer finally dropped with my actual day job, something I never thought would happen because I've been in the artificial intelligence space for 12 years. And what I saw then was A, well, yeah, built my own demise, essentially.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:You were replaced by AI, were you?
Zach Hanson (:So who knew, you know, it's like you build your own gallows and they put you in it. But got to that point and you know, I had the six months, everybody said, have your six months of savings, you'll be good. All of sudden, six months ticked by, eight months ticked by, 11 months ticked by, had kids in a family and I was out of money. And the only thing that I had to fall back on to pay my mortgage were the skills or trades that I had. I was working in a taxidermy shop and I was trapping. I was trapping my ass off.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:I had government contracts. I was doing all sorts of stuff, but it sustained me until I did find another job in the tech industry. And that's what prompted me to write the book was like the feebleness of white collar work right now is just true. Like there is going to be a downturn, a continued downturn. And we have so many skillless people. I was one of those people. I'm still like moderately skilled. you know, I, I, I'm not somebody who's had a full career in anything, but
Brad Herda (:Zach Hanson (06:11.201)
The push for the book is for young kids to rethink education and be more generally educated. And for those that are in my world, to think about in your spare time, picking up some skills because best case scenario, can be a lifeline. I mean, worst case scenario, it can be a lifeline. And best case scenario, you can fix some stuff around your house. You can be a more self-reliant contributing individual to society. So that's the TLDR on the book.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm.
Brad Herda (:What drove the self-reliance piece passion for you? What created that desire to become less reliant on others and more reliant on yourself? What was that trigger?
Zach Hanson (:Man, this is not a continual plug of stuff, but I wrote a book called Turning Feral, which was about my transition from white collar worker into this more self-reliant individual. But the trigger was just seeing stuff around me. I had a nice house. I had cars. But if anything broke, I couldn't fix it. I couldn't even begin to know where to fix it. I was fully bought into the had to call a guy era.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Yep.
Zach Hanson (:Frankly, it was embarrassment. I did all the masculine things. I've done wrestling jiu-jitsu since I was little, I still do. I was running ultra marathons. I was doing all this stuff. But at the end of the day, if the grid went down, and these were just little thoughts I had. I didn't have kids at the time, but I was like, my wife and I would die. I would have to pray that a deer jumped in front of my car.
Steve Doyle (:you
Zach Hanson (:that I could start a fire, which I might not even be able to do, drag that deer on and pick something edible off because I don't even know how to skin it. I don't even know where the rump roast is, like maybe on the ass? I don't know. So that was it. It was like an emasculating feeling that I just went through.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:you
Brad Herda (:You can Google it.
Steve Doyle (:You could Google it. Nice. Right. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So with with the books and what you've seen and specifically because Brad and I, both were both college educated. We both worked in the white collar space, but had a lot of blue collar crossover. What what have you seen when you're?
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, assuming if that's up, right?
Brad Herda (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:talking with others in that white collar space. Like what kind of trends are you seeing with that?
Zach Hanson (:Self-reliant curious, man. Even with my first book, Turning Feral, there's cool hunting stories. mean, it's mostly my screw-ups learning to hunt as an adult. And it's comedic and it's pretty good. But the majority of reach-outs I had were from people like, I've been feeling the same way. I've been feeling that like scratch and itch that, I don't know what would happen. I can't do things on my own.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:I have to rely on the grocery store to always be open and have their shelf stock. And then the book came out right at COVID. And then you saw fights over toilet paper. You saw the grocery stores go. And I think that was the other trigger for people of like, this is possible. Like it's always been that kind of thing you push off. Like it's never going to happen. We have such great, you know, supply chain here in the U S things were always going to be there. And then some people got their eyes open, myself included. So.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Zach Hanson (:That was it. Right.
Brad Herda (:and we're gonna be there till it works.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Yep. What was the, what was the most rewarding thing that you stumbled on?
Zach Hanson (:man, in life or in life? Because I mean, I've stumbled on a lot of rewarding things. One's family. Like, you know, I got lucky that I didn't have kids with my ex-wife, and I remarried to a wonderful woman and have great kids. That's one. But in the self-reliance space is just confidence, right? Like, you know, there is...
Steve Doyle (:Go for it. Yep.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:There is something that actually makes me a better white collar worker, a better learner for blue collar trades, just in knowing that I am capable. I'm capable to go learn. I might not ever be the best well. I might not ever be the best electrician. I might not be the best database manager. But when you kind of dabble in like self-reliance and learning that you can provide for yourself and your family, it's a big crossover.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:So it crossed over into everything in your life. So I think that's the biggest thing I stumbled on that I wasn't expecting is community and just a bolstering of confidence across everything I do.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm hmm. Mm hmm. From your your audience, from your readers, what's the most astonishing thing that you've gotten from them?
Zach Hanson (:there's just so many more people that are in the exact same boat. You know, I think everybody who writes a book or anybody who kind of puts their story out there, oftentimes it's like, this is a me thing. Like, I don't think other people are feeling this way. Like I must be some unique snowflake, but you're not. Like there's so many people who are going through the exact same thing.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Hahaha!
Brad Herda (:Are you sure? Are you sure we're not? Come on, you've just hurt my feelings, Zach.
Steve Doyle (:You're not a unique snowflake. I like this.
Zach Hanson (:Sorry, Brad, I hate to be the one to bear the bearer of bad news, but no, you in fact are not.
Brad Herda (:And he still identifies as millennial. Weird.
Zach Hanson (:I know, right?
Steve Doyle (:Uh-huh.
Brad Herda (:That was very boomer X-like of you.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, I think I can coin a new term maybe. I'm polygenerational.
Steve Doyle (:wow.
Brad Herda (:What?
Zach Hanson (:You had anybody say that before? There you go. I can morph into anything there, Brad and Steve.
Steve Doyle (:Wow.
Brad Herda (:Wow, that might be the episode title.
Zach Hanson (:Hahaha
Steve Doyle (:You
Brad Herda (:Polygenerational WTF.
Steve Doyle (:The uh-huh, pretty much.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah. Well, I don't know when my kids act up and I kind of go back to like the spanking mode. I'm definitely boomer-esque, so.
Steve Doyle (:wooden spoon survivors. That's what we are.
Zach Hanson (:Mm-hmm. I had the hole in the paddle man. I went to a Christian school in the early 90s, so
Brad Herda (:Yeah, but you are past the rubber tip map pointers, right? So, cause you were pat, you're in digital at that point. The, those map pointers, those things fucking hurt big ass four foot long stick with a big old rubber tip on the end of it. It's not comfortable.
Zach Hanson (:Mmm, fair.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm.
Zach Hanson (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:But look how well behaved you are now.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Exactly. Just like Pavlov's dog. Perfect.
So Zach, what are you seeing in, right, as you have gone into your hunting and into your trapping and into this, I don't want call it survival, but self-reliant world, how are you seeing others in your peer group or above or below you from a generational perspective accepting that or being inquisitive about it? Or are they like, what the hell did you decide to do this for? What's that been like out in the?
world for you.
Zach Hanson (:It's a mixed bag, right? Like, you know, my parents, like, they're fantastic. I have great parents. I grew up in a good household, very like lower middle class. My dad was an engineer, mom stayed home, mom. But again, we didn't grow up in this like farm to table or woods to table mentality. It was, you know, box processed foods, all that. So like when they saw it, granted, I had other life experiences a lot that turned my mom's hair.
Brad Herda (:mean don't get me wrong, elk is really fucking great stuff to eat. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have somebody get it for me than for me to go figure out how to go get it myself, so.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yes, yes.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, yeah, it's a difficult endeavor. But my parents, of course, they were like, what are you doing? You know, they couldn't see the why because they they grew up in that boomer generation where things were great, where things were always going to be great. They didn't see the grocery store until covid like things being stripped or things not being available. So they were a little questioning. Obviously, my peer groups in the technology world were like, OK, this guy lost his mind.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:He's like lost his marble. Yeah, completely cuckoo. know, he's like Skynet's come in, you know, he's seen behind the curtain, he's talked to Oz, and now he's just running to the hills. But again, like it was a mixed bag, but I was consistently surprised how many people, you know, on Zoom calls who would see like my backgrounds. Like I might join a call after I moved out to the middle of nowhere and there'd be some animal and some version of undressed behind me.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:you
Zach Hanson (:And I just kind of accepted it and just put it up there. didn't blur my screens. And I would have people I did not expect people that I would have pegged as like vegetarians or like super metropolitan reach out and be like, talk to me about this. Like I'm thinking about like getting into hunting from like a conservation aspect or food and that again, it just is surprising how many people. Outwardly are afraid to say it, but are genuinely curious to explore.
what do you call it, survivalism, self-reliance, whatever, then you would expect.
Brad Herda (:was just at an event today, getting some photos taken. The gentleman's doing the photos for me. He said, Yeah, I just he's like, Do you hunt because I brought my golf clubs and some of my musky stuff and different things like now I don't hunt I never really got into it because I didn't have any land to do it. He's like, I just started doing hunting as an adult and bow hunting and getting ready for deer next week here in Wisconsin. So it's like, okay, awesome. That's fantastic, right? He's got two young daughters that he's gonna
try to get them involved so that they can go out and go do the thing. you know, he's a older, I mean, if you don't have somebody around to teach you, it's really hard to get into.
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, I mean, well, YouTube and all those things like that was those were my mentors until I like moved to where I went to, which is middle of nowhere, met a few old timers, especially on the trapping front who kind of helped me out. But we are in a fortunate space where you don't have to have drunk Uncle Billy, you know, ready and willing to drag you in the deerwood. Like you can just go and do it.
Brad Herda (:How did you know that? How did you know my uncle's name was Billy?
Zach Hanson (:You know, I just as the ESP man, again, it's that polygenerational feel that I have.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Yeah.
So from all the yeah, no from from everything that you've learned, what would you say is the most that was one the most challenging, but two, what was the most rewarding?
Brad Herda (:that polyness.
Zach Hanson (:Challenging definitely, yeah, for me personally, definitely trapping was definitely the most challenging, both from like a lack of mentorship and just from a practice because it is very hard. Like you think about hunting, even with a bow and arrow, you might get 15 yards. That's kind of like the target up to 80 yards away. Rifle, can extend that out a significantly further distance depending on your proficiency.
Steve Doyle (:for you personally.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:trapping, you're trying to get a very smart nose heavy animal to step on a six by six inch, you know, metal pan in the middle of 3000 acres of national forest land. Difficult endeavor. Very, and very low yield, right?
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Brad Herda (:Peanut butter. Have you tried that?
Zach Hanson (:Yeah, I know, right? I wish that were that easy. I end up getting caught in the trap every time I do that. Very big peanut butter cut here. But, you know, the most satisfying truly was in that timeframe that I was only trapping and doing taxidermy to kind of support my family. I also did at the local community college here in Boise a night welding course to get like a structural welding certification.
Steve Doyle (:Hehehehehe
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:I think why that was most satisfying was not because I walked away with like, I can slap two pieces of metal together. which was really cool, but it was just the idea that it's not out of the realm of possibility. And everything that I had been told about the trades was alive. And like, I actually found so much intellectual stimulation at the end of a spark, like sitting there and like trying to get like a good bead.
Steve Doyle (:Mmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:and doing vertical welds, all sorts of stuff. I was locked in. I've always sought out flow states, if you will, in jujitsu and ultra marathons. But all it did, I took, was me striking an arc. And all of a sudden, I was in it. My hand would be shaking, and it would steady. Those little things were really cool and something that I thought A, wasn't for me, and B, was just like,
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:less than and I wouldn't find that intellectual stimulation which you know I did.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm.
Brad Herda (:There's a lot to look right and that's that was always the hard part working in manufacturing on the Office side of the wall was everybody's like all those guys don't know what they're talking about or what they're doing bullshit They are the most creative problem solvers and some of the smartest people on the planet because The engineer gave them some piece of shit that can't be made, but we figured out how to make it anyhow
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Speaking to you, engineer Doyle.
Steve Doyle (:I got you. I actively ignored you.
Zach Hanson (:This is Mr. Blue.
Steve Doyle (:actively, not passively.
Brad Herda (:Right.
So when you were doing the research and things for the book, what was the one thing that was for the trade gap book? What was the one thing that just popped out to you as the most impactful as you were putting that together?
Zach Hanson (:Jeez, man. There's a lot in the book. You know, it's a historical accounting from the early 1900s of
Brad Herda (:Right, because I mean you did a bunch of research to get this thing together. This isn't just a guy throwing his his own pontification into a into a book to say I published a book. It is some. There's some good stuff in there as far as the history and research, and that's why I want to know what was your. What was the aha moments?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:You know, the aha moment was, know, again, I never thought of the trades. Even when I kind of started doing self-reliance stuff, like I was picking up things here and there, but they were self-serving. I never reflected back on why did I not have a shop class in my high school, even though I was in a relatively rural urban area of South Carolina. So the big two takeaways for me or for me, one was just the
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Zach Hanson (:different education acts from the 50s up until the No Child Left Behind Act, how all of those different things really came together to just bend trades over the barrel, frankly, and just remove it from our schools. That was one. But the most interesting statistic was, again, millennial. High school graduating year of 2007, we had 3.3 million graduates nationwide across the US.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:Of those, 67 % went to a higher education, two-year, four-year paying degree program. You throw some scholarships in there, but most people are paying out of pocket. A large part maybe went to the military. could argue you could learn a trade there. Another chunk did nothing, just didn't go beyond high school education. But of those 3.3 million in 2007, only like 250,000 went to a trade school. And that's what started to really blow my mind is
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:I was relying on the call a guy era to continue forever that because I wasn't going to learn a trade. I wasn't going to learn how to fix my toilet. But you just look at the math. You know, I have a graduate degree in statistics from Johns Hopkins. I can do the simple math to see that this doesn't add up. Like this will. Yeah. And like, you you hear Mike Rowe talk about it. You hear other people talk about it. You guys talk about it.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:We have a problem.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Zach Hanson (:But until you just sit down and look at it on paper and you just go, shit. That was the biggest takeaway for me and what also prompted me to actually go through the act of finishing the writing and publishing a book that I, frankly, I'm not a blue collar worker. I shouldn't be the authority here, but it was just so patently obvious. I'm like, well, whether this goes anywhere or not, I'm going to publish this book because it should be heard.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Good night.
Steve Doyle (:Mmm.
Brad Herda (:Right. And I appreciate it. I appreciate sending a copy and I've thumbed through it. have not read to be honest with you, but it's there. I know just catching some of the data, catching some of the research. I'm like, okay, this is good. And we talked about that in our initial conversation. was your passion for the self-reliance is really important. And the message to be, to the youth is to go figure it out, go try something. It doesn't have to be your career, but it can be something.
Steve Doyle (:Cuz you're a jerk.
Brad Herda (:whether it's a side hustle or whether it's just take care of your own stuff, right?
Zach Hanson (:Well, I I think about my undergraduate career. I worked some odd jobs. I worked in a cigar shop, but like it would have been no hair off my back to go and do that same night welding school and pick up some welding jobs that would have paid significantly more than any of the hourly wage work that I was picking up because I thought it was less than I just didn't know it was an option.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Brad Herda (:Correct. The key right there. You thought it was less than and your peer group probably would laughed at you. What are you doing to go work in that factory for? Well, you probably would have met some great mentors and had some, you know, George who'd been there 30 years willing to teach you something that could have changed things sooner for you possibly.
Steve Doyle (:.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Zach Hanson (:And again, or worst case, I just know how to Cool.
Brad Herda (:Correct. Right. Make sparks.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:All right, so here's a new feature we got on the show. It's called rapid fire. So, so we're going to ask you a bunch of questions. They should be relatively simple. Shouldn't take a lot of time to think about them.
Zach Hanson (:Okay, I'm ready.
Steve Doyle (:You
Zach Hanson (:I don't know, I'm an over thinker. So we'll see how I might be able to challenge you on that one.
Zach Hanson (:Unless you have a shock block.
Brad Herda (:Dumbest thing you ever heard in a meeting.
Zach Hanson (:dumbest thing I've ever heard in a meeting from a boomer, how do I turn the camera on?
Steve Doyle (:You
Zach Hanson (:Most of my meetings are digital if you can't tell.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. I guess they're looking at you.
Brad Herda (:Favorite blue collar skill you wish. Favorite blue collar skill you wish more people had.
Zach Hanson (:Ooh.
Zach Hanson (:Just from where I live, I'm gonna say welding because we have our local firehouse. Like I end up kind of playing around with some of that. Like everything breaks, everything rusts, everything needs fixing. Like that's what got me into is I broke a trailer and I was like, well, this is gonna be an expensive thing to replace. Oh, or you can just fix it. So welding, definitely recency bias on that one, but it's my answer.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Okay, coffee or energy drink?
Zach Hanson (:Haha, coffee.
Brad Herda (:Favorite curse word.
Zach Hanson (:Mmm. Fuck.
Steve Doyle (:It's universal.
Brad Herda (:Favorite candy, favorite candy.
Zach Hanson (:Favorite ham, ooh. This is a new one that's kind of propped up. I'm not a big sweets guy, but nerd gummies on hunts are pretty good.
Steve Doyle (:No. Pass.
Brad Herda (:Nerd gummies are good. Nerd gummies are good. Text or call.
Zach Hanson (:millennial text.
Brad Herda (:best pizza topping.
Zach Hanson (:Move,
Barone.
Brad Herda (:Favorite music.
Zach Hanson (:Classic Rock.
Brad Herda (:Favorite sport.
Zach Hanson (:you get to.
Brad Herda (:Ginger, Mary Ann.
Zach Hanson (:Ginger.
Brad Herda (:Alright. Wasn't that hard, was it?
Zach Hanson (:Meh!
Steve Doyle (:I'm more impressed that he knew.
Zach Hanson (:Hey, I said polygenerational.
Steve Doyle (:Hahaha!
Brad Herda (:I knew he'd figure that one out. So Zach, people want to get your book, people want to get in contact with you, whether it's for hunting skills, taxidermy, all the things that are out there, because you are a well-versed guy. How do people find you? Where do they find you? How do they get in contact with you?
Zach Hanson (:boy, I mean, kind of all over the place. You know, we connected through LinkedIn. am on there. Instagram is at let me die learning. You can pick up any of my books, turning feral, the trade gap on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, walmart.com, really any of the online retailers carry it. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Awesome. Well, I know you have a very busy hunting season coming up here, right? Because you're going to be gone probably starting next week through December.
Zach Hanson (:Well, yeah, so this actually September is light for me. I'm not doing archery elk this year, but then we'll start doing some deer and elk with buddies. Trapping season then starts. Then I'm a licensed guide in Montana, so I'll be doing some mule deer guiding in October, November, and then back to do late season archery elk in Idaho in mid November. So yeah, really running through the whole year.
Steve Doyle (:Nice.
Brad Herda (:Nice. That is awesome. Well, best of luck to you. Stay safe and enjoy the fruits of the land.
Steve Doyle (:That's fantastic.
Zach Hanson (:We'll do. Thank you, gentlemen.
Brad Herda (:Amen, thanks.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, thanks, Zach.