We dive into Supernatural Season 2, Episode 13 "Houses of the Holy". We also discuss the pure tomfoolery of the last person convicted of being a witch in Great Britain, Helen Duncan, and it was a lot more recent than you think!

Sources:

• https://www.ststworld.com/helen-duncan/
• https://gorillacool.com/helen-duncan-witchcraft/
• https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/helen-duncan-scotland-witch-ectoplasm-spirits/
• https://helenduncan.org/about-helen-duncan/
• https://witchipedia.com/book-of-shadows/herblore/wormwood/

Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

We're going to talk about magic fingers, the tomfoolery of witchcraft trials, the satisfaction of Mr. Woodcock.

And what do you people keep in your cellars?

All right, let's do.

Sam.

Welcome to season two, episode 13 of Devil's Trap podcast.

I'm Diana.

I'm Liz.

And this week we're talking Houses of the Holy.

Holy holes.

Holy houses.

I don't know.

I'm sure all the blasphemous jokes will come out of today.

How are you doing?

I'm pretty good.

I'm pretty good.

I'm tired, but I'm good.

You know, I actually went to a movie this weekend.

Weird.

We don't go to movies a lot anyways, but especially just, like, since the world's been weird.

But went to the Texas Theater, which is a historic movie house on Jefferson Boulevard in Dallas, Texas, in Oak Cliff, where Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested from.

And we saw the Green Knight, which was good.

Interesting.

Beautifully stunning.

Like visuals, but weird.

I don't even know what that is.

It's a take on one of the Arthurian poems, so.

And the directors from the Dallas area, so.

Kind of interesting.

Yeah, there you go.

Oh, it's Sir Gawain.

Gawain.

Yeah, that one.

Oh, interesting.

It's got Dev Patel in it.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, he's the main character.

It's good.

It was good.

It was interesting.

It's just like.

Like.

It is not an action film, which is fine.

I wasn't necessarily expecting that.

But it's.

It's a lot more of just like a journey film.

But so did you.

I was gonna say, did you, like, have flashbacks in medieval times and just start yelling boo?

No, I did not boo any of the nights in the movie, though.

That is my specialty at Medieval Times.

But, yeah, no, we had a good time doing that.

And then we started drinking seltzers in the pool, and then we drank wine in the house and watched Harry Potter because that was Harry Potter's birthday on July 31, and I got a Harry Potter cake out of the deal, and then I stayed up way too late drinking and watching Harry Potter and made Sunday very painful.

You know, this is how we rage these days.

Why do you have a hangover?

I was really up late watching Harry Potter.

Yes, that's my story.

So, yeah, that's my excitement going on.

And what have you been up to?

I have been cramming for my trip to Las Vegas to go to hacker summer camp.

And I'm being very rude right now because I just realized I did not pay my rent and so I would like a house to come back to.

So this is the glory of modern television.

Modern television, Modern podcasting that at the same time that I'm talking I can send my landlord money.

So I still have a house.

Having a house will be good.

It'd be nice to have somewhere to come home to after your, after your summer camp.

Yeah.

So that's pretty much I'm just trying to get all my work done and then all my non work done and then obsessed over what shoes are not gonna make my feet bleed but still be cute.

Which is the Vegas struggle that always exists.

It's the constant battle, but especially a Vegas battle.

Cause you're gonna be fucking on your feet in Vegas.

Well, you're on your feet and the floors are made so your hurt because they want you to sit down at a table.

So there's like, oh, if we just make all your feet hurt then you're just not going to want to walk around.

But then my friends don't care and because they're deep and they want to walk around and yeah, at least it'll be a dry heat I guess.

I don't know.

It was, it was really gross here all this weekend.

Although then today it was lovely.

Raining.

It was beautiful.

Yeah, it was raining here.

I don't like it.

I know you do.

Oh my God.

It was hot this weekend though.

It was real fucking hot this weekend.

It was kind of humid and it was like over 100.

I'm like still toasty but.

Yeah.

Which I would know if I actually left my house and we left to go to the grocery store and buy crap.

I was like, I was looking at my grocery cart coming out.

I'm like, I'm having issues because there is like milk bar came out with me cookies and I was like, I need all their cookies.

So then I bought all their cookies.

But I also have been thinking about oatmeal cream pies, a little Debbie.

So I bought those and then I bought some ice cream.

Yeah, see I don't have all that but I do have a miniature Happy birthday Harry birthday cake and a like a handful of lightning bolt cookies and a chocolate frog because they have the to die fork is the name of the bakery.

Did a pop up at Bibi Bop, which is a little Korean restaurant, like Korean fusion place by my house.

So it's pretty, pretty tasty.

Very excited about having cake after I record because I didn't eat it over the weekend.

So tonight my beverage of choice is non alcoholic because I have to pick and choose my sugar consumption.

So I'm having a zevia ginger root beer.

This evening I am drinking demonic wine.

I don't know if it is demonic, but it has Asmodeus on the COVID of it.

Or as I think they call in dishon.

I think they end up pronouncing it Asmodeus.

I always say Asmodeus, but that's because of that.

There was like a really weird, like, not.

Was it goth?

What's the word I'm looking for?

Industrial.

There is the industrial band Asmodeus.

Maybe they're Asmodeus.

I don't know.

But anyways, I saw it.

Asmodeus.

I don't know, but it's a cute little dog with like fire behind him and wings on it.

It's called Poggio Anima and it's Nero Diavola Sicilia.

So I'm just expecting this is red wine from Sicily or something.

Sounds right.

Sounds right.

Or at least in the Sicilian style, which sometimes what they do.

Well, I mean, it's made from.

It comes from Sicily.

It was imported into New Jersey.

Okay.

Yeah.

I actually bought some like ginger beer lemonade, which I intended to make with vodka, but then I wanted to start drinking earlier and I couldn't.

I can't have cocktails by myself.

Like, if I was like, no, I was like, I have to write.

I need wine.

I can't write without wine.

It's impossible.

Makes sense.

Very reasonable.

Very reasonable.

I think so.

So, yep, demon wine will be fueling me tonight.

And hopefully I won't be hungover tomorrow so I can get all my shit done.

Yay.

It's very appropriate to be drinking demon wine while we talk about churches.

I thought so.

So I picked that one just for that.

Also just because it had a screw top.

But it was just seemed really easy.

I was like, damn it.

I.

And like putting.

Finding the like, which corkscrew do I choose?

And then I have to put it in and then I have to turn.

It and whole thing where you can just twist the top off and it's got the screw topping.

That's why it's a demon wine.

It's just like, this is how easy it is for you to drink me.

So easy.

Just twist.

Just twist it.

Oh, my gosh.

Ridiculous.

All right, so tell me.

Tell me about.

Tell me about Houses of the Holy.

So Houses of the Holy, which is a Led Zeppelin album, if you did not know as Diana said, this is season 2, episode 13.

So some of our favorite peeps are here on this episode.

So I have feelings, but not a lot of feelings.

I don't know.

Have a mediocre episode again.

But we're gonna start off in Providence, Rhode Island.

We're going to P Town.

P Town.

Yeah.

So we open up this episode where there's a girl, a woman, that looks kind of like she's been living a little bit of a rough life.

We find out more about what I.

Think in the transcript.

They called her a hooker.

And I'm like, really, guys?

But, yeah, she doesn't look good.

No, she looks a little rough.

Probably about how I look that Saturday night on my sofa, smoking a cigarette, watching tv.

And it's kind of creepy.

Like, this part actually did kind of creep me out.

It was pretty freaky when it opened up.

Like the.

Where she has the televangelist.

Like, she's changing hands and a televangelist is on and she turns the TV off.

Well, she changed channels from the Drew Carey show.

And then like, yeah, like, why would you turn off Drew Carey anyways?

I could hear Mimi in the background, and I forgot how much I loved Mimi.

I'm like, damn it, I have to watch that show again.

Yeah.

But, yeah, so she.

And so tell Vanielsson.

She's like, no dice.

And turns the TV off.

And then the lights start flickering and the TV pops back on.

And as a television list again.

It's almost like he's talking directly to her.

Real freaky.

And it's like zooming in.

And the whole apartment starts shaking.

And I'm like, I don't like this.

This is scary something.

This is not a nice televangelist.

That's all, you know, right then.

But.

And then not.

I don't know if there are nice televangelists, but anyways, I'm just saying.

And then I was like.

I was like, this is a little terrifying.

My little.

My little.

My little Catholic heart doesn't handle that.

The super, like, Protestant televangelist.

Real well.

They're a little.

He.

There was a lot of fire and brimstone coming from him.

It was a lot.

It was weird.

And then you see a bright light in the doorway, and she's, like, staring into it.

And then the scene ends.

So we cut to a hospital room, and it's the same chick, but she's, like, taken a shower and, like, washed her hair since then and is not smoking, but she's reading the Bible.

We find out her name is Gloria.

She's played by Heather Dorksen, who is actually on Sabrina, also the new Sabrina.

She played Gryla.

Oh, yeah.

I thought she looked familiar.

Yeah, I love Gryla.

Kyla was a great character.

So, anyway, so Sam walks into the room.

He dressed as an orderly in, like, white scrubs.

So you're like, oh, obviously the imagery here.

We're in a mental.

Mental institution.

Institution of some kind.

That's the.

Hanging out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, trying to hug at me.

All right, there we go.

All right.

Sorry.

Tlc.

Breakdown.

It happened.

It did.

It did.

We're gonna roll with it.

So she basically, he's asking her about, like, what she saw, and, like.

Like, oh, I'm just checking in on you.

She's like, you're not the same guy.

He's like, oh, yeah.

But he gets her, like, kind of talk about what she saw, and it ends up she's like, no, I'm not.

I'm not crazy, but I did stab a man in the heart because it was God's will.

Yeah.

Not crazy.

Yeah.

Things that don't make you ponder, huh?

I saw a thing and then it told me to stab something.

That's cool.

Yeah.

She helped to smite an evil man because God sent an angel to her in white light, and it was her chance for redemption.

So in past tense, wouldn't she have smoted him?

I wrote down what they said on the show.

But, yes, I know.

I'm listening.

That was my concern, too.

That was my concern, too.

I'm like, do we have some grammar and some tense issues going on here?

You can smite somebody.

But I think if.

I think in the past, I smoked you or smoothed.

I smoothed you.

They're smoothed.

I smoothed you so hard.

I don't know.

Anyway, so.

But.

And she was like, made a big deal about how she saw a sign and the angel said that the man was guilty.

That's it.

That's what matters.

To his deepest foundation.

Guilty to his deepest foundation.

I didn't write that down.

And it matters, but I didn't write that down.

I was like, ah.

Cause I was like.

Well, at the time, I'm like, all right, whatever.

Yeah.

She's just making the point that he's fucking guilty as hell.

And then.

Yeah.

So Dean's turned into a really big fan of the Magic Fingers, which is a vibrating hotel bed.

So gross.

But also, I mean, if I was There.

I would probably be doing that, too.

And also, again, you guys are upping up in your art decorations because weird,.

Like, with her, like, trucker girl silhouettes and then, like, the, like, 70s, like, silhouettes there was, like, all over the place.

Well, they're both mud flap girls.

It is like, we have the black mud flap girls and we have the white ones.

And I appreciate both of you.

Like, this is, like, so great.

The.

All the posters in this room are amazing.

All the paintings.

Like, it's.

Good job, guys.

We never get the name of this motel, though.

I wish we did.

I bet it has a good one.

Yeah, I bet it does.

Yeah.

So you said you would have been down with the Magic Fingers massaging bed, but I don't think you would have been listening to Led Zeppelin like he was.

I'm just gonna go on a limb there.

You never know.

I mean, maybe I decided that Robert Plant wasn't a slimy fuck.

And the.

Sorry, that's the Screeching Weasel lyric.

It's not me you can hate.

There are many reasons.

Reasons I hate on Ben Weasel, but that lyric was genius.

Anyways, okay, so, yeah, he's all sad because he's bored and on lockdown because he.

And he ran out of quarters.

Well, that too.

It's like he's out of quarters for the Magic Fingers.

But he also is, like, having, like, hide out from being seen on the news during the goddamn bank robbery in the last episode.

So Sam's like, I met with Gloria.

She totally believes it.

I can't find any dirt on the man that she killed, though.

So we don't really know, like, why she thought he was guilty of something and if so, what it was.

And basically, we get kind of like a weird, like, faith conversation.

Kind of an interesting one here where Sam's like, yeah, I believe in angels.

And Dean's like, the fuck?

How do you believe in angels?

I have never seen one.

They're, like, in Sam's argument, it's pretty fair.

It's like, we.

We deal with a lot of shit that people don't believe in or have seen, like, supernatural shit all the time.

And angels is where you draw the line of things you believe in.

That's kind of weird.

And there's a ton of lore on them.

He's like, yeah, I still haven't seen one.

It's so.

It's kind of weird.

I thought, then they think that unicorns aren't real.

And I got very upset between, their, unicorns are real.

God damn it, guys.

But also, I Mean, I think Dean is having some giant emotional reaction to angels, not just in a. Oh, is this our thing?

Normal thing.

It was.

You could obviously tell there is some sort of subtext.

Absolutely.

And we get to that a little bit later when he talks a little more about it.

But, yeah, for sure.

So he's just really, like, defensive about, like, didn't like angels.

But.

So Dean's just super freaking stir crazy.

He needs to get out.

But they.

They want to go.

He wants to go investigate.

And Sam's already like, look, I've already done this.

I've already looked.

By all I looked at Gloria's house.

There's no sulfur, no EMF readings.

So let's go, you know, check out the victim's house.

And they go, and guess what there is, is a giant plastic angel by the front door, which would have been the.

The symbol that she thought she saw, probably.

Maybe.

And Dean says, always take down your Christmas decorations or you might get filleted by a hooker from God.

That is fair.

That's good advice.

I was like, damn, I was very amused by that line.

So, yeah, so they're looking around, and of course there's a creepy locked cellar at the back of the house.

And so of course they have to break in.

And they both kind of are like, oh, guilty to his deepest foundations.

Could it have been literal?

And apparently it was because they find a fingernail embedded in the wall, which just made my hands hurt really bad.

So gross.

So gross.

Like, I don't know why.

Like, if, like, there could have been like a chopped off arm, and I would have been like, oh, chopped off arm, that's fine.

But the one fingernail, like, no, there's a fingernail.

You could, like, feel it.

Oh, so upsetting.

And as someone, especially someone that wears like, like acrylic nails all the time.

Oh, it hurts so bad just watching that.

I was like, oh, my God.

I thought you powder dipped.

Not anymore.

Now they're back to acrylic.

Because I go to a nail artiste now.

They don't like.

They don't like the dip.

So, yeah, okay.

Also, beyond the fingernail grossness, I was very disappointed.

There was no Satan's pickles in this.

In this.

In the cellar.

I looked.

I looked really hard and I didn't see any.

But there were random, gross jars full of shit.

Well, what else do you put in your cellar?

Right?

Your cellar's gotta have something in it.

And so, I mean, that's where you put your jars of stuff.

What do you keep in a cellar?

People in the north, we do not understand this.

Like, I'm very confused.

Like, are there random jars of liquids in the, in your cellar?

Like, is that just what you do?

I don't know.

We don't know.

In Texas we don't have those things.

Cause they're weird.

Well, no.

Mainly because it's a really big pain in the ass to blast the foundation down.

And so we just have to.

If there's a tornado, then we just have to go.

I'll just hide in this hallway.

It's fine.

It's not a seller.

Yeah, sure.

Anyway, so no.

Satan's pickles, fingernails.

And there's a skeleton.

And they pick the.

They just somehow knew, like, where the skeleton would be.

Yeah, good.

Good on you guys.

Like, this is not a sexy dick in the gravetime.

I mean, cool.

I'm glad you found it.

But I mean, that was a very decomposed skeleton.

Which my true cry was like, no,.

Based on what you said late, that.

Was there for a very long time.

This probably wasn't the dude she stabbed in the heart.

So it's probably somebody else's victim.

So maybe it was just.

I don't know.

Anyways, okay, so victim in the floor and we find a skeleton.

They're like, shit.

Yeah.

So the guy she stabbed may have been a shitbag after all and killed some girl.

That's.

Yeah, that's.

But we don't know when.

But at some point, the guy that she stabbed obviously killed somebody and buried them in his base in his cellar.

So.

Yeah.

So our next scene, we cut to a kind of scruffy looking dude reading a graphic novel and drinking a beer in bed.

Yeah, this guy looks like all the ones@match.com is trying to tell me that I should be.

And I was just like, dude, was this guy like my profile match?

Like, did he send me a message?

And he's like, I live in Wimberley and you know, I'm going to sit here reading beer in my.

Reading beer.

Reading.

Reading terrible comic books and drinking beer, because that's what good.

I'm not going to judge you guys for reading comic books as adults, but that was not a healthy reading of a comic book.

I did call it a graphic novel, to be fair.

Not a comic book.

So I'm really proud of myself as someone that doesn't read them at all.

That wasn't a graphic novel.

That was a comic book.

Difference.

Yes.

Yeah, I just thought like the grown ups read graphic novels.

Grown ups are comics.

Graphic novels are actual novels.

They're Novels, but with pictures.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just thought it was like a.

Like a thicker comic book than most.

I guess that's why I assumed it was a graphic novel.

Why are you looking at the thickness of this guy lying on the bed?

Diana.

Jeez.

Oh, She a married woman.

Dirty.

So dirty.

So the apartment starts shaking, and he's kind of, like, looking around, freaking out, and spills beer.

And then there's a bright light, and we don't see much else from the scene.

It just cuts to him, like, out on a walk.

Like, he found a hoodie, a dirty hoodie, and was out walking around.

And then he sees a light in a front yard that kind of almost has, like, a silhouette of a figure with it.

So he goes up and knocks on the front door.

I'm like, oh, shit.

This guy's seeing a sign.

Here we go.

And introduces himself as Zach to the guy that opens the door and then just stabs him.

Yeah.

Zach also seemed really happy.

About what?

Like, during this entire communications, I think he was just like, I want you to stab.

Oh, we'll stab somebody.

No, no, he's bad.

I don't care.

I'll stab anybody.

You're telling.

You're giving me something to do.

I could just stab someone.

This is awesome.

Yeah.

No, it's for God.

Cool.

All right.

Yeah, that's fine.

Whatever.

Nice.

I just want to stab someone.

Yeah.

So we cut back to the motel, and Dean's listening to the scanner, and he's just, like, really wants quarters for his magic fingers.

He's just very upset that Sam doesn't have quarters for him.

Sam won't enable him.

Damn it.

Figures out that three students had disappeared from the college library.

At the library that the first victim worked at.

So he was a bad guy and apparently was abducting and killing college students.

And then they figure out that this has happened again.

And Zach was known as, like, the local town drunk, basically, which just feels, like, weird.

I'm like, okay, it's like Providence.

It's actually, like, a city kind of.

It's a big town, and there's a lot of drunks there.

Watch P Town.

I'm like, oh, he's like the drunk.

Okay.

Anyways, that's what that town is known for.

Like, if you're known in Providence as a drunk, then good boy.

Effort into it.

So they're like, all right, well, now we go to this victim's house, and so they break into a very old window.

By the way, that window would have been painted shut.

You would not have Been able to do that.

Well, you also did not need to do parkour to get out to this window.

They're just like, pew, pew.

And jump on this.

I'm gonna backflip over this garbage dump.

And then like, I'm in the house and I'm like, I'm pretty sure you just could have walked up to the back door because these cops clearly don't care.

We're in another town where the cops are just like, clear.

If I just put tape around this makes my crime scene secure.

Absolutely, totally secure.

So they're.

I bet you love this scene too.

They're looking around the house.

They're like, I can't find shit.

What's.

What did this guy do?

Was he actually a bad guy or was this random?

And Sam totally unlocks the password.

He's like, this, this file is password protected.

So I'm going to hack it and I'm going to hack it by pressing a bunch of keys at the same time and shaking my keyboard.

And that is how you hack motherfuckers.

And he was hacking a file of saved emails apparently, because it was very like.

That's not really.

Are you hacking into his email?

Are you hacking to a save file?

Like, I don't fucking know.

It was very.

No, there, there is bad computer stuff here.

Bad.

That's not how computers were.

What?

That's, that's not.

Are you kidding?

No, that's crazy talk.

But you know, he does and we find out that he's a pedo.

Our victim was a chomo.

Yeah, yeah.

Gross.

Gross.

So he was sending nasty, like he was trying to meet a 13 year old girl and sending her nasty, like emails and they were going to meet that day.

Well, technically his emails weren't nasty.

At least.

Well, they weren't.

They weren't nasty.

They were nasty.

It's nasty that he was going to meet a third.

It's nasty because he was Talking to a 13 year old and trying to get her to meet up and saying like, I understand your parents don't want you to get to lie to your mom.

Anyways, this just could be a vomit.

Episode that's just me and Diana making vomit noises.

So I am going to like, I'm not going to go deep on this yet because it will come up again in this episode.

But I'm starting to have a little minor ethical dilemma though.

Obviously this guy's a shitbag.

Shouldn't be messaging this young girl, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But does that mean that he got killed before he could actually do something Is this like some like preventing people from doing stuff?

Because I've got some major ethical dilemmas with that.

Because if he didn't actually do something yet, like, I'm not saying it's okay to message little girls.

I'm not a.

Promise.

I promise.

But he didn't physically act on something.

Are we going to punish people for.

Thinking about doing something bad?

Anyways?

There we go.

Yeah, that's where I was going.

Mentally.

It's very freaky to me.

Well, this is the log, probably.

But this guy.

But we'll get.

Yeah.

And likely he wants a once a chomo.

Probably.

This is not the first 13 year old.

I understand.

But at the same.

Well, at the same time there's a lot of ethical problems with this.

You know, you're not.

This is vengeance, not justice.

This is Minority Report shit.

Because I was like, oh, I know, I know you're going to do something.

At the same time, they were to go back to the baby Hitler argument of could you kill baby Hitler?

You know, like, I mean, I don't know, maybe just take baby Hitler for some ice cream and he won't turn out to be a fucking asshole.

Like, buy him some better art lessons.

I'm just kidding.

Yeah, no, some better.

Like just buy his art.

Like if I just bought his painting and then he'd be like, cool.

Like, I don't need to commit genocide.

Somebody likes my terrible artwork.

So.

All right, anyways, so we now Sam's on the.

It's Avenging Angel.

I think that's a TV show.

Sounds like it.

I was trying to think.

I was like, I was thinking descending angels.

Anyway, so now we've got.

And then they figure out that it's.

That both the victims.

Now both these guys that have been killed went to the same church, which is a weird connection to have, but so they decide to go to the church.

So now we're at the.

I guess this is the house of the Holy at this point.

And they're talking to the priest at the church about being potential new parishioners that just moved to town.

The priest basically, you know, he believes in angels, but he doesn't really think that, you know, angels would be more.

He thinks the angels would be more loving than wrathful.

Which is kind of funny when you talk about like that is our perception a lot of times, like, oh, angels, hey, they're protecting us.

But like the war and the Bible about angels, they're not super fucking nice.

They're not like, they're messengers.

Yes.

Okay.

They, they're Also, they're also vengeful and wrathful sometimes.

So there we go.

But, yeah, angels are dicks.

And we'll just lizard's summary and just note that I said that in season two, episode 13 and we'll see when that gets repeated.

No spoilers.

Okay.

Angels are dicks.

But yeah, it's a very interesting theological conversation, you know, with, you know, with a priest who's just like, hey, like, here's Michael.

Wasn't Michael good?

And he was like, well, the angels love us.

Like your dogma.

You know, there's a lot of dogma at the Catholic church.

I'm like, we don't know.

We just.

Okay.

So anyways, they start going about that, and they start like, well, I guess we're gonna go.

But they go outside and they're like, hey, what are all these dollars and candles?

What are these dollar candles?

Because those are clearly the ones that you buy at the gas station.

Unless if they all had Dolly Parton on them would be amazing.

All the prayer candles.

I am wearing a Dolly Parton shirt and I do have a Dolly Parton prayer candle.

I've got.

I've got like four Dolly Parton pair candles and.

Really?

Oh, yeah, and Willie and I don't know who else I've got.

I've got Dolly and Pee Wee Herman.

And I forget who else I have.

I have a couple others.

I definitely have Dolly Parton and Peewee Herman prayer candles.

That's what my altar looks like.

So Father Gregory was shot outside of the church for his car keys, supposedly.

And I'm talking about how the neighborhood's going to crap.

You know, one of those.

That is pretty crappy.

Like.

Like you shoot a priest on the church steps for his car keys.

That's like.

I don't know if you believe in heaven or hell or karma or what.

I think you're pretty if you do that.

Like, whatever it is, you're kind of.

And as an atheist, like, I'm just like, no, I still, no, you don't see a priest.

Like, well, some priests maybe, but, you know, like, you don't carjack a priest.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

That's fucked up.

This is what.

When you carjack a priest, this is what happens.

And no, Jerry is going to feel bad for you.

Yeah, no, you're.

You're not getting out.

Yeah.

All bad.

So this Sam is kind of like, you know that Dean thinks that the dead priest is a spirit that's causing all this to happen.

Sam's like, no, I still think it could be a, you know, an answered prayer, because this.

The.

The priest that's running the church has been praying for more help for the community and blah, blah.

Dean mocks him, but Sam confesses that he actually prays every day, which I thought was kind of a thing.

I think it really caught Dean off guard when they were having that conversation.

I mean, it shocked him.

And that was my.

It was like he was very, very surprised.

Yeah, well, and I guess also, if you think about, you know, how they were raised, I mean, it sounds like Mary probably talked about religion with them, but I don't think John did, beyond the fact that demons are bad.

Let's shoot them.

You know, that was probably.

Although they did have that.

The original Pastor Jim.

Yeah, they did.

And they were close with him.

So they decided to go down to where the priest is interred in the basement of the church, and there's a bunch of angel statues.

And while they're walking down, Dean goes into the crypt space where the priests interred.

And one of the angels starts shaking and Sam sees the bright light.

So.

Yeah, also so down there.

So they built the crypt.

So this was a set piece, right?

So.

But they made it look really real.

Like they did a good job of it.

They also put a really sassy little cherub in there.

I don't know if you saw.

I was.

Little finger pointing, and I was just like, that's a fat little cherub.

Like, what are you pointing at?

What are you pointing at, you sassy little cherub?

And then.

And so Dean comes out to find Sam.

Like, where the hell did you go?

We just walked in this room.

And he finds Sam unconscious on the floor.

He said he saw an angel.

And so Dean tries to hand him his flask as his response was pretty funny.

But Sam's trying to explain that he really appeared before him.

He had a feeling of peace.

Dean's still like, nah, brah, this was totally just a spirit.

And Sam explains that he was told that he needed to kill somebody.

So now we have that.

And he seems okay with it because it's before they do something bad.

And.

And you can tell he's not, like, on board with it, so.

But he's also like, maybe this is God's will.

And this is where Dean reveals that he really doesn't have this kind of faith.

Because mom had faith.

Mary had faith.

And it didn't help.

Like, she prayed every night for angels to look over them and look what happened to her and to their family and to everything else.

And so if this is actually Real.

He needs hard proof of it.

Otherwise he just doesn't believe in any kind of angelic force.

Fair.

And so there's.

And then he points out that there is a plant, kind of vine that's on the priest's grave, and I missed the name, and I'm sorry.

Oh, I've got you, girl.

Of course I've got you.

I know you.

It was wormwood.

So the reason why you know, wormwood is because this is how we get absinthe.

Absinthe.

Yep.

So what Dean says is that, you know, wormwood is associated with the dead.

And I just went to Wichipe, which, also, I love the fact there's a witchipedia.

And so I didn't do a ton of research into this because I was busy researching other shit.

So some of the things, though, that I think is interesting on it.

So the name absinthum may come from a word meaning unenjoyable, referring to the bitter taste.

And I was like, yes, yes, it is.

So I don't know if you've had absinthe, but.

So absinthe tastes like licorice.

That's one of the qualities of wormwood.

It basically tastes like black licorice, so Siamese.

Whatever.

Disgusting.

So I am glad that absinthia means unenjoyable.

Hilarious.

But also, the term wormwood comes from the fact that people used to eat this to cure their parasitic worms that was in their body.

So you would eat this and then you would vomit them up.

So it is said that the wormwood first grew from the path of the serpent as it exited the Garden of Eden.

So as the.

Nope.

Rope is going by.

Oh, my God.

Did you see the penis snakes?

What?

Diana's like, where did you go?

Sorry, no probe.

So there's these new penis snakes that have invaded Florida, and they're really disgusting and they look like penises.

Anyways, look it up.

All right, so back to wormwood.

Wormwood.

I was like, what?

What just happened?

Did I, like, black out for a second?

That was so, like, random.

I was like, technically, it wasn't random.

So I was talking about it.

Wasn't it tied in?

I was just like, wait, what?

Where did this come from?

All of you now to go and Google penis things?

I want the entire world to go, ew.

Because they nasty.

They're nasty.

I don't want to see them.

Yeah, but I don't.

I'm throwing that.

I don't hate absinthe.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I've drank my share of absinthe.

This tastes disgusting, though.

So if you macerate wormwood and soak it in wine for several days and then strain it, you can use this wine to induce visions and astral projection and divination.

Yes.

So when are we doing that?

Never.

Because it's unenjoyable.

No, you don't have any star anise in that one.

It'll be fine.

We just need to find some wormwood.

It's just that wormwood just tastes like star anise.

That is just that note, but it can also be used in spells to send harmful magic back on its center.

You can use it in spells for vengeance, and if you combine it with mug work and burn it, then you can use it to call spirits.

But you should make sure the area is well ventilated, as the smoke can be very irritating to the eyes and throat, and it's toxic if inhaled.

It's also said to be useful in banishing spirits.

Well, I mean, if you're dead, you're not going to see any more spirits, so they'll be gone.

Yeah.

So don't smoke the wormwood, guys.

That's just what I'm saying.

Psa.

Psa.

It's actually not that hard to find.

I've.

I've bought it back in my witch days, but, yeah, it's pretty easy.

It's pretty easy to find.

So.

So Dean's convinced that his father, Gregory, in order to do this, he wants to have a seance.

So they're gonna have a seance in the basement of a church.

I'm just like, my mind's blown.

Sounds exciting.

I would hope.

That's why I want to.

In a crypt.

Yeah.

So we're going to talk about se.

Anyways, because I need to talk about something on this.

So I don't know if your timer's at, but.

So we're going to talk about a famous seance person.

So Lore time.

Lore.

So we are going to talk about Hellish Nell.

Have you ever heard of her?

Helen Duncan.

All right, so Helen Duncan is famous because she is the last person to be convicted of witchcraft.

So very interesting woman with very many takes on this.

So she was born Victoria Helen McFarlane.

So we're gonna get my.

One thing that I can say with a Scottish accent.

She was a whore.

She was not a whore.

You just wanted to say that really.

Bad because that's the only thing I can say in that accent that doesn't sound like a Jamaican person.

Okay.

She's one of, like, eight kids because they were Scottish and they were fucking a lot, and they were poor, so they just made more babies.

And everyone says, you know, like, the sight ran in her family.

And even as a child, you know, she was already seeing the spirits.

And this comes from helenduncan.org so take these stories, some of these many sources.

Obviously, this first two stories come directly off of helenduncan.org so according to there, once, you know, her teacher wrote some questions on the blackboard and told the students to write their answers down on their slates.

Because, you know, this was when they just had their little chalkboards and they would write down your answers.

And so Helen wrote the number of the questions down, but she didn't know the answers.

So she prayed, and wouldn't you know it, the answers disappeared on her slate.

The teacher saw the answers weren't in her handwriting and accused her of cheating.

Helen said, oh, no, I didn't copy any other children child's answers.

But I don't know how they got here.

They just got here.

You know, it's cool.

And then he was like, I don't know if I buy that, but okay.

Be amazed.

So Helen became an embarrassment to her family because her mom was like, something's wrong with this child.

We're gonna take it to the doctor.

So she takes it to the doctor, and then basically, Helen's like, doctor's gonna die.

And then he died.

Yeah, he got into a car accident and skidded on a road.

And so she was then condemned by the local Presbyterian minister, who accused her of consorting with the devil.

Witchcraft.

She's a witch.

So she left the village at age of tender age of 16, and she went to Dundee.

And so Dundee, I guess, is Scotland, although it sounds Australian, so me.

But so she goes to Dundee.

And it was at the outbreak of World War I, so she started working in factories to make ammunitions and things like that.

Later she became a nurse.

And while she was nursing, her best friend, Jean Duncan introduced Helen to her family, including her brother Henry.

And apparently, Henry's first words when he met Helen were, so we meet at last.

Because they had both had visions about each other.

So, yeah, they Dreamed about each other.

What would you say if a guy said that to you?

Would you let him buy you a drink?

Well, I mean, a girl's got a drink.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm not saying I talk to him, but I take the drink.

I mean, let's turn down.

So we meet at last.

All right.

So they get married, and they also have eight children, but two of them died in emphases.

So they have Bella, Nan, Lillian, Henry, PETA, and Gina.

Peter, not PETA.

Sorry.

Peter.

I know you got excited.

Hunger Games.

Yep.

So Helen, like Helen, is trying to supplement their household income by basically doing laundry, working in a bleach mill.

And then one day, Helen had a vision about Henry.

She rushed to his workshop, and he had suffered a heart attack.

He wasn't dead, but he couldn't work anymore.

So basically, Helen's like, well, fuck, I got six kids, a husband that can't work.

I am not making a lot of money doing laundry.

But you know what I'm really good at?

Pretending to pretend to be a psychic.

Yeah.

Talking to dead things.

So Helen, encouraged by Henry, starts holding evening seances.

And she was aided by her spirit guide, Albert Stewart, a sardonic Scottish immigrate to Australia who appeared regularly in seances throughout her career.

He was often accompanied by another one of her spirit guides, a little girl named Peggy, who allegedly danced and sang and swung from curtain rails.

But, you know, this is actually a really good time to be a medium.

So we're coming off of the end of the spiritualist movement.

So a number of people are still in the spiritualist religion, but also World War I just happened.

So all these people have dead relatives.

So it's a really good time to be like, hey, you want to talk to your dead person who died in this thing?

I'm here.

So while Ms. Duncan was in trances, she would produce a slimy supernatural substance called ectoplasm through her mouth and nose, which would then transform into the physical beings of spirits who could then communicate with her loved ones.

And I'll send you some pictures because it's so good.

An example of one of her satisfied clients was Vincent Woodcock.

His satisfaction.

Yeah, I said Woodcock.

He said the satisfaction of Woodcock.

Like I could handle the satisfaction or Woodcock, but when you put them together.

Yeah, you can't.

Yeah.

And I will say, also, the satisfactions just came out during testimony later, so.

Well, maybe think how satisfied he was, but.

So he claimed his dead wife had appeared in 19 seances he had attended over three years.

And lucky for him, on one occasion, he was sitting with his sister in law and Helen went into her trance and ectoplasm started coming from her mouth.

Then it became the form of his recently deceased wife.

And this is a quote from the transcripts.

My wife came through and invited her sister in law to come up to her in front of the cabinet.

And my wife came up to me and took this ring off my finger, which I have here.

She pulled it round thus and she put it on my sister in law's hand.

She clasped her hands together and kissed them and said, it is my wish that this takes place for the sake of our little girl.

12 Months after that, his sister in law got married.

So.

And she basically.

Yeah, so he married his sister in law because his dead wife came in a seance and said to.

Because he had a child.

And so really I'm like, oh, so you wanted to bang your sister in law?

And you use this as an excuse to like, it'll be okay.

My dead wife likes it.

Because she was probably like, oh, no, heavens to Betsy, I cannot.

And sorry, I told you, heavens to Betsy.

Heavens to Betsy.

I just love that you went to that.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

You know, in Scotland, clearly that is what they say and like, oh, we must be married because my dead sister.

Okay, so weird.

So weird.

So that was a.

That's a good instance.

Now we're gonna start going into some of the debunking, which is just also fucking brilliant.

He took flash photographs of her and her materialization.

Remember, like shit coming out of her mouth, turning into things.

So they're like, yeah, some of these spirits.

Yeah, they may not be real.

One of them was like, that's a dol made out of paper mache draped into an old sheet.

And when you see these pictures, you'll be like, oh, okay, I get.

But yeah, they're.

They are hilarious, but also very frightening.

So she was into crafting is what you're telling me.

Yeah, I actually, I really like Helen, by the way.

I think.

I think Helen was like, I'm fucking poor and I need to feed my family.

So we're going to do some shit.

So make some fucking crafts.

We're going to craft and we're going.

To fucking make this shit happen.

Yep.

I was like, we're getting fed, bitches.

Bacon's gonna be on the table tonight.

He was the Director of the National Laboratory of Psychical Research.

And he was invited under the London Spiritualist alliance, the lsa, to examine Helen and see whether or not she was fake.

So Harry Price is really famous in the debunking of the spiritualist people.

Like, for a while he was really good friends with them because they're like, of course, come, come tape it.

So we have so much.

This is all real.

It's all happening.

And then when he kept, like, exposing people, they started to like him as much.

So while he does his examination, he determines that her ectoplasm was cheesecloth paper mixed with the white of an egg and lavatory paper.

So tp.

So basically she was eating eggs wrapped in toilet paper and then vomiting them up to make her ectoplasm.

So that's dedication.

I'm like, yeah, bitch.

Like you were just.

I'm gonna make this happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah, I mean, couldn't you have just.

Like figured out that she had like a really bad, like, hay fever allergy and then just like coughed some shit up?

So she's like, literally was like eating this and then puking it out of her mouth and nose like, Ah, yeah.

And then dried into paper dolls.

So then, like, the dolls would then rise up.

Yeah, it's.

It's bizarre.

Okay.

But also, like, I still appreciate the ingenuity.

Or ingenuity, not ingenuity, whatever.

Ingenuity.

She's like an entrepreneur, but she's an old woman.

I don't.

Whatever.

Harry Price was also just.

He was a dick.

And like, when he was discrediting people, he said some shitty things.

And the things he said about Helen, he was like, could anything be more infantile than a group of grown up men wasting time, money and energy on the antics of a fat female crook?

Damn.

Yeah, fuck you, Harry.

Like, Helen, I'd be like, look at all my money, bitch.

And then he'd be like, you're a fat crook.

And she'd be like, but my kids ain't hungry, motherfucker.

Yeah, they got some food here, bitch.

And I didn't steal from anybody.

They willingly paid for this dumb ass shit that I'm doing.

Yeah.

So there was another instance because sometimes Helen was kind of going along with these, these, you know, things that were trying to disprove her.

But there was one time where Price was like, I'm going to X ray, you know, and this is a quote.

So she jumped up and dealt him a smashing blow in the face, which sent him reeling.

She then made a lunge at Dr. William Brown, who fortunately avoided the blow.

Suddenly, without the slightest warning, she jumped up, pushed Mrs. Goldney aside, unfastened the door and dashed into the street, where she had another attack of alleged hysterics and commenced tearing her seance garment to pieces.

Her husband dashed after her, followed by the other sitters.

She was found clutching the railing, screaming, and Mr. Duncan was passed trying to pacify her, like, oh, you're going to take an X ray of me.

I'm going to punch you in the.

Face and have a meltdown.

Have a meltdown.

I'm going to go.

She.

She went all in, man.

Because you know, you know she was faking that shit.

Like, she's like, fuck it, I'm going for it.

I'm going to punch this.

I know I have.

I'm going to freak the fuck out.

Watch this.

Watch, watch this, motherfuckers.

Watch this.

Look over there.

It's like, oh, you're gonna X ray me?

No, I'm gonna punch you in the face.

I love her.

And one of the sitters, I guess as they're calling people who watch them, named Essen Mall.

What a terrible name.

Her first name is Essen, E, S S O N. And her last, I think this is a woman, and the last name is M A U L E. I know, terrible.

So basically, she grabbed Peggy and the lights went on, and Peggy was revealed to be made from a stocking net under vest.

So I had to look up what a stockinette was fucking stocking it.

And so it was an elastic knitted fabric used especially making undergarments, bandages and baby clothes.

You still buy it on Amazon, by the way.

I'm sure this is not me popping in my Amazon feed along with my holy water and Devil Dollar.

Take that algorithm.

So anyways, basically it was a.

She faked.

The faked pecking.

Duh.

So the police were called and she was prosecuted and fined 10 pounds.

The undervest was used as evidence, but led to her first convict, or at least this conviction of fraudulent mediumship at the Edinburgh.

Fraudulent mediumship?

Yep.

So she goes along, let me see.

I was bringing up your dad.

No, no, no.

So England's going like, bunch of shit's happening in England.

They're getting bombed all the time and things are just bad.

And so in November, 861 men died on the HMS Barham.

So this tanker though, this British tanker that was bombed, nobody was told about it, that was being kept as top secret.

But then there's a seance and Duncan's like a spirit from the ship named Sid has come and he's come to visit me and told me that the ship has sunk.

And so now I'm gonna talk to all these widows.

And the War Department was like, whoa, whoa, pause.

Yeah, how do you know?

We didn't say tell this to anybody.

What the fuck is this medium Dewey talking about it?

So now like the, like she's starting to get the attention of the actual military because they're like, what the fuck is happening?

So basically they did determine there was a leak of the Secretary of the Secretary of the First Lord.

Fucking British people.

The Secretary of the First Lord had been indiscreet to Professor Michael Postum of the Ministry of Economics Warfare.

Not to realizing it was a secret.

So they think that it leaked out.

Then she got to this.

But I think she also, like, one of her daughter's husbands was on there or something.

I was reading a book that was very confusing and it was like set, like it seemed like a lot of fiction and like the woman, like, she had a lot of great sources, but the way it was reading, I was like, I can't quote from this book because I don't believe you.

So anyway, so she started like the military is like her tracking track.

Like they're watching her.

Good eyes on you, helen.

Jesus, two lieutenants were among her audience at a seance.

And one of them, Lieutenant Worth, he was not as impressed as a white cloth figure had disappeared behind the curtains claiming to be his aunt, but he didn't have a dead aunt.

And she also claimed to be speaking with his dead sister, but his sister was very much alive.

And he's like, no, I don't believe this.

So I'm going to go to the cops.

That sounds really sloppy for her.

That doesn't seem like.

Yeah, it seems like it's bad.

Cold reading bad on you, Helen.

So he went to the cops and five days later an undercover policeman showed up at another seance and another white shrouded paper mache ghost appears.

And this one actually turned out to be Duncan.

Like, it was actually Helen, like in a sheet.

And so she attempted to conceal that when discovered, but she was arrested and it's like, like, love her show.

Like the picture of her, like showing the.

She like, not me.

No, that's not me.

That's a ghost.

Ghost.

But so she becomes arrested here.

We're going to charge her with witchcraft.

What?

So this trial, just obviously, everyone's like, whoa, this is fun.

And they're like, oh, scab delus.

Or whatever.

I don't know what they would say in Scotland.

I would say, blind native.

That's so English.

I don't fucking Scots.

Okay?

So then it turns into this whole media circus obvious because everyone's like, oh, fucking witchcraft child.

Yes.

Is she a duck?

Let's see if she floats.

So they.

Can we.

Can we.

So lots of witnesses were called to the Sound to talk about her seances and everything, including a journalist who said that he had seen Arthur Conan Doyle materialize those seance.

So Sherlock Holmes, its author, like, shows up, I'm sure, like, high on fucking heroin, cocaine.

It was just, like, the worst ghost ever.

Just like, can I get another fix?

Like, he's just all cracked out.

There's, like, socks.

There's no drugs on the other side.

So they also start producing photographs, including the one where Peggy appeared to slither out of Duncan's nose.

And his face is obviously that of a child's doll.

It's so obviously a dance doll.

And I'm just like, how dark were these rooms?

Like, you see the pictures, you're like, how did you.

Did you.

Oh, okay.

So they found her guilty, and she was sentenced.

Then after this, Winston Churchill got a word of this, and he was like, what the fuck?

What are y' all doing?

And he complained.

He wrote this very terse memo.

This is really great.

And it's complaining about the misuse of court resources and the absolute tomfoolery of the charge.

And it's really great.

I show the quote.

I'm sure he was, like, writing so fast.

So fast.

What was the cost of this trial to the state observing that witnesses were brought from Portsmouth and Mained here in this crowded London for a fortnight.

And the Recorder kept busy with all of this obsolete tomfoolery to the Detriment of necessary work of the courts.

He was like, yeah, you're right, Churchill.

What the fuck?

Like, how much money?

Like, we're in a war right now.

People are.

People are gone, and you're gonna like,.

Ship in fucking, like, witnesses for a month for this fucking, like, media circus on, like, a law from 200 years ago.

So she Indeed.

It is indeed Tom foolery.

But, yeah, that's Helen.

It was probably something else.

Probably fraudulent mediumship or vagrancy or something.

Fraudulent mediumship?

Is that.

Is that books?

I don't know.

I mean, technically, it's fraud.

I mean, if you're taking people's money for a service that isn't real, that's fraud.

So, I mean, I don't know if they believe it's real.

If they believe it's real, but then you have a fucking.

Yeah, but if you have a Paper Michelle doll and you're, like, vomiting up eggs, like, that's not real.

So that's fraud.

Yeah, that's fraud.

But it's.

I don't know.

I think it's wild, that fraudulent mediumship.

We'll have to look to see if this was actually in the books.

But part of that, too, is, as you know, again, like I said, we're coming off a spiritual.

I'm just making updates now, but it's been going for, like, a hundred years, and there's a lot of people that are invested in it.

So I wouldn't be surprised that they actually passed laws to be like.

Yeah.

So.

Yep.

They finally took off that.

You can't convict somebody for being a witch.

That's nice of them.

Yeah.

So that's what Helen brought us.

So good on you, Helen Duncan.

That's insane.

I can't wait to see these pictures.

Okay, so, yeah.

So seances.

Well, I mean, I guess the supplies that our Winchester brothers buy are about on par with fucking, you know, egg whites and toilet paper because they go get a bag of stuff from the corner store and they have a spongebob squarepants placemat instead of an altar cloth.

I mean, it works.

I mean, you need an Ultracloth.

I mean just, just because it comes from the bottom of the sea doesn't mean you're not going to be able to like get a spirit to come through.

You may get some like really great crabs.

So yeah.

So.

And as they're leaving the store, all of a sudden there's a guy walking across the the street and he has a bright light behind him.

So it's the sign.

And Sam wants to go stop him.

He does not want to go kill this guy.

He wants to stop him from whatever he's going to do terrible.

Because he knows he's going to do something terrible.

And Dean is like, nope, this is stupid.

It's a terrible idea.

And I'm.

And I'm bored.

I want to go do something.

So he locks Sam out of baby and goes to follow that guy and tell Sam to go do the seance at the church.

And the guy that he's following goes and picks up a chicken and gives her flowers.

And you're like, oh, you kind of like, I, I know where this is going.

I know where this is going.

So Sam, we come back to Sam, he's doing the seance and seems to be going pretty well to get started.

And then the priest catches him and is pissed because he's doing a fucking seance in the basement of a fucking church.

Yeah, yeah.

Usually frowned upon.

But all of a sudden as the priest trying to like, like pull him out of the whole Krypton all there's a super bright light and they both see it.

And so.

And it's Father Gregory.

So it is Father Gregory, the dead priest's spirit that they're seeing.

And basically his argument, he believes that he's an angel.

He's convinced himself in the afterlife that he's an angel and that he's been answering the other priests prayers by doing this to help resolve people that have been committing crimes.

It's kind of crazy.

So Sam tries to tell him to move on, but he just insists that he's there to help and that there's not really to move on because he's an angel.

And this is what he does now.

And Father Gregory does like throw some pretty good dogma into his face.

And he's like, man, men can't be angels.

Yeah.

And if you, if you're a Catholic, like Father Gregory was like, oh no, they are a different race.

Like they're, they are different type of being you can't set.

Which I guess is just depending on which Christian mythology you follow.

Because I know in some like you Know, you die and then you.

An angel gets its wings.

Like, you know, like.

But if you're going based off of just the actual dogma.

Right, yeah.

Angels are one race.

Human beings are a separate race.

And there's actually, like, depending on which.

I mean, I.

A lot of the fictional lore around.

Like, what do you.

I don't know, like, there's a word for it and I lost it.

But anyways, like the Catholic mythology or like, stuff like that that I get into.

Like, I enjoy, Like, I really like to show Lucifer and like, things like that where you got angels.

And like, I really liked some of, like, the, I don't know, stigmata movies and stuff like that.

Like, I just really.

I love that shit.

Anyway, anyways, Catholic mysticism is the word I'm looking for.

But anyways, I love that.

But it's the, the.

The concept is that there is actually some tension between humans and angels, even though angels.

Anyways, so that's.

That's kind of like the.

And I know that there's gonna be stuff in the series later on about it, blah, blah.

Maybe there could be an angel that's really heavily involved in this.

Weird.

I mean, I don't look at our Instagram ever or anything.

And we don't follow any supernatural theme.

Like, so I don't know anything about that.

I am not spoiling anything.

But.

But that is like, that is a very common thread here.

So it's kind of interesting because you're right, they're like, no, you were.

You were a person.

You were human.

You can't be an angel.

So anyways, so they're the, The Father Gregory, the dead priest spirit is trying to justify having people kill to prevent things from happening or punishing bad people because it's, you know, it's helping them be having that.

Giving them, like, salvation.