Top 5 Tips for Custody

Charlotte Family Law Attorney Caroline Wingate Strauss joins Law Talk for a year end (December 2021) review of family law and custody issues in Charlotte Family Court. Surviving the Holidays can be a challenge.

There are a lot of custody exchanges take place during the holiday season that may differ from the ordinary custody and visitation that may in place during the year.

What are the Best Interests of the Child?

In any custody and visitation analysis, the child's well-being is the Polar Star consideration by Courts (judges) in North Carolina. The "guiding light" involves focusing on the Best Interests of the children.

Helpful Tips for Child Custody:

1. Try to Keep it Out of Court
2. Shared Custody is Preferred
3. Keep Kids Out of It - Don't Use Children as Intermediaries, Weapons, or Confidants
4. Engage Professionals if Needed - Attorneys, Mental Health Counselors, Psychologists, Family Therapists, Physicians, Clinicians, Experts
5. Get an Order or Parenting Agreement
6. BONUS: Consult with an Attorney who is an experienced parent

Is a Lawyer Required for Divorce?

Ordinarily, a lawyer is not “required." Judges rarely demand attorneys be retained or get involved.

At the same time, family law issues can get pretty complicated. While not required, a lawyer may be very helpful in explaining the processes and how things work in Family Court.

Is a Lawyer Required to Get Divorced?

Does Collaborative Law make sense?

Collaborative law allows spouses to resolve family law disputes outside of court. Rather than going through trials and sometimes emotional proceedings, the parties work through the collaborative process to solutions to disputes.

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[bill_powers]: You're listening to law. talk with Bill Powers, your resource for answers to

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[bill_powers]: your most pressing questions. Attorney Bill Power sits down with some of Day's

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[bill_powers]: leading legal minds to discuss everything from legal issues and legislation to

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[bill_powers]: practice tips in policy. Now here's your host, Bill Powers, former presidents

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[bill_powers]: of the North Carolina Advocates for Justice, recipients of the North Carolina

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[bill_powers]: State Bar, John B Mcmillan distinguished service award and a founding member of

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[bill_powers]: the Center for Legal Education and advocacy,

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[bill_powers]: Hello and thank you for joining us for another episode of Wal Talkalk. I am

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[bill_powers]: joined to day by attorney,

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[bill_powers]: Um. Caroline Wingot Strause, Good morning afternoon. What is afternoon now?

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[bill_powers]: Good afternoon. It's one of the Um. in the last couple weeks of twenty twenty

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[bill_powers]: one, and we're doing a series of podcasts. Um, Kind of given the status of

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[bill_powers]: different things, and I thought a real interesting one would be to day what

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[bill_powers]: we've entitled The top five tips for custody. These are intended to be somewhat

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[bill_powers]: big picture in nature. Uh, there are the things that we tell clients when we

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[bill_powers]: meet with you initially. It may be things that we tell you progressively as we

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[bill_powers]: go through of representation,

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[bill_powers]: and sometimes it's necessary to remind people kindly. Uh, these are good

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[bill_powers]: general ideas. so Um, here's some. like I said, some general information

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[bill_powers]: regarding Um

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[bill_powers]: over aarchinged principles, and Um. keron. You prepared to assume any little Um

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[bill_powers]: acronyms so well as you jump in and tell me what you got a love. Yeah, I think

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[bill_powers]: Um. Custody comes to the forefront of family law attorney's mind during the

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[bill_powers]: holiday season, because a lot of custody exchanges occur during the holiday

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[bill_powers]: season and it's different from the typical schedule, so I thought it would be

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[bill_powers]: good around this time of year. Um. to talk about the things that uh, I find

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[bill_powers]: important, Uh, and emphasizeed to my clients going through a child cussy

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[bill_powers]: matter, And these, these tips aren't necessarily how to win your trial or

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[bill_powers]: um, how to outsmart the other side. These tips are Um

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[bill_powers]: geared towards making it the best outcome for your family and for your

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[bill_powers]: children, and to establish an effective co parenting relationship Going

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[bill_powers]: forward. So before I delve into my tips,

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[bill_powers]: I wanted to kind of give you an overarching principle that all these tips are

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[bill_powers]: guided by, and in fact that the courts are guided by, and that's the best

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[bill_powers]: interest of the child.

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[bill_powers]: What the best interest of the child means is the court is always going to find

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[bill_powers]: or give a custody arrangement that is in the best interests of the child? Um,

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[bill_powers]: so we're thinking about the child's well being. We're not thinking about

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[bill_powers]: getting back at the other parent for thinking about the ▁ultimate outcome that

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[bill_powers]: creates a well rounded little human being

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[bill_powers]: Right, And actually, I'm glad you brought that up because

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[bill_powers]: have a nice time for the holidays for Christmas. Uh, in court system, in the

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[bill_powers]: case law we see from court appeals, so occa, these get appealed up when you'll

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[bill_powers]: hear in the court. It's called the Polar Star, The Uh Nors star, if you will.

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[bill_powers]: So If you want to think of the Christmas analogy and whole holy night in that

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[bill_powers]: the star,

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[bill_powers]: the best interest of the children is that guiding White to the courts, to the

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[bill_powers]: attorneys into the parents. that is that we need to focus on the best and so to

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[bill_powers]: children.

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[bill_powers]: And uh, how we do that or how we get there? Um, I think are some of your

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[bill_powers]: particular points, So right

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[bill_powers]: and I sometimes have clients to talk about my rights and what I want. And while

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[bill_powers]: those are important, they're not the only

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[bill_powers]: sus. your child's right, Right. And that's what the court's going to look for

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[bill_powers]: if you do end up in court, But that leads us to our first tip. Um, which is I

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[bill_powers]: always try to keep these matters out of court. Um, if you go to court.

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[bill_powers]: Obviously, it's an adversarial process,

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[bill_powers]: so I tell all my clients that the gloves are going to come off the other side

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[bill_powers]: is going to bring all of your skeletons out of the closet. And in my opinion,

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[bill_powers]: that does not provide

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[bill_powers]: a good foundation for co parenting and creating a nourishing environment for

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[bill_powers]: the child going forward.

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[bill_powers]: Um, That doesn't mean that you won't have a court order at the end of this

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[bill_powers]: process. it just means that

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[bill_powers]: we aren't going to go to trial. We're going to try to work it out outside of

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[bill_powers]: the courtroom, Um. And there are ways to go about that. There's the

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[bill_powers]: collaborative law process,

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[bill_powers]: Um,

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[bill_powers]: which both Bill and I are, you and I are Um trained in. There's also what's

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[bill_powers]: called mediation. Um. In in mediation, you meet with a neutral mediator and

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[bill_powers]: each party has their attorney there. They have attorneys, and you try to come

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[bill_powers]: up with a plan with all minds involved. Um. that will best help the child,

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[bill_powers]: Um, and in fact, if you do file a lawsuit, you have to go to mediation anyways.

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[bill_powers]: Um, so the courts even prefer that these things get settled before they hear

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[bill_powers]: them.

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[bill_powers]: A. A. a courtroom divorce lawyer doesn't want to go to court.

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[bill_powers]: Oh, crazy, or does that come from? Maybe, um, have you been there a little bit,

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[bill_powers]: Ande

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[bill_powers]: some things

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[bill_powers]: as my, as my dad would say. uh, I've I've the s. my first rodeo. I've been

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[bill_powers]: there before. Yes, we are. Uh, well, I think I think our reputations for being

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[bill_powers]: courtroom lawyers and we, we litigate things regularly, but it is a good idea.

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[bill_powers]: Based on that experience we think to try to keep it out of court. And and you

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[bill_powers]: brought something up. Two things are real important. The clabita process, I

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[bill_powers]: think is more than any other area of law that I've done. Uh, This area of all

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[bill_powers]: particular children is where I think it's really best suited. Collaborable

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[bill_powers]: means, Um, as I've heard a judges say in court before we have judge in

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[bill_powers]: Charlotte, who regular says that, See, she'll say, come on, yal. maybe F. let's

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[bill_powers]: get. let's get together here. Come on, y, let's let's work through this and the

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[bill_powers]: holidays can be tough because you know, Miss visits or late,

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[bill_powers]: and uh or late, pick up late, drop off and uh, Unfortunately, we occasionally

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[bill_powers]: see emergency orders being filed on the eve of things Christmas Eve, New Year's

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[bill_powers]: Eve, Christmas Eve, Eve, and uh, they're expensive to litigate their heart. Um,

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[bill_powers]: I guess, uh, wrenching, if you will, not just for you, but for the children,

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[bill_powers]: potentially, and I, I agree with you. I don't think the courts particularly

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[bill_powers]: like the

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[bill_powers]: back and forth, the the bantering, the sword play. If you will. I think the

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[bill_powers]: courts very much prefer.

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[bill_powers]: You know the com commanial approach. Now, Um,

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[bill_powers]: if if there is a preference, I mean years ago, people just assumed Mom always

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[bill_powers]: got the children and Dad got every other weekend and two weeks during the

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[bill_powers]: summer. Is that the case anymore, Caroline, or has that? is there a preference

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[bill_powers]: now, or a general kind of? I guess, theology and court with child cussy issues.

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[bill_powers]: Well, let you just described is the ten day years's presumption and that no

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[bill_powers]: longer applies. Um. Legally speaking, Um,

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[bill_powers]: based on our experience in what I'm seeing today. in court, I,

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[bill_powers]: most judges prefer if it's possible,

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[bill_powers]: Um, for the child to spend as much time as possible with both parents. I think

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[bill_powers]: the studies, psychologists, Um, and everybody who's involved in

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[bill_powers]: you know a child's life, all agree that participation by both parents, Um, is

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[bill_powers]: the most beneficial for the child going forward. Now when I talk about shared

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[bill_powers]: custody, there are different iterations of shared custody, Um,

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[bill_powers]: and there's different iterations of custody. The first, there's physical

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[bill_powers]: custody, which is when

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[bill_powers]: Uh, who's who stays with mom and who stays with Dad, and when Leo cuss', who is

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[bill_powers]: who makes decisions on behalf of the minor child,

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[bill_powers]: Um, and then

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[bill_powers]: shared cuss.

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[bill_powers]: Well, we have. Uh, let me jump in here 'cause others important point out right

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[bill_powers]: now. 'cause you what we're talking about, A different types of custody and we

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[bill_powers]: tend two, and we don't want to be inconsiderable people here. if we refer to

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[bill_powers]: mom or dad, and the truth in the matter is it could be Uh, a parents of mom and

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[bill_powers]: mom or dad and dad, Um, or whatever, as you. I like that word generation.

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[bill_powers]: There's a as many different types of relationships we have today in our society

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[bill_powers]: and culture there are. uh. There's an understanding the law that would be, and

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[bill_powers]: I want to back you up a little bit because you, youve said some things here

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[bill_powers]: that I understand what you're talking about. marriage. Maybe it not be, and

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[bill_powers]: that would be you, call it tender years, and Um, the tender years. Um

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[bill_powers]: generally have to do with when there's are particular. I guess for, for like a

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[bill_powers]: term of susceptibility of the child and a need to be with one parent another,

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[bill_powers]: so I, I use a real basic one. Let's say Um, mom is maybe breastfeeding child or

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[bill_powers]: something like that, or maybe the child in a neikee or a Pq unit, And there's

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[bill_powers]: some. uh. There was a traditional idea that there was a a value for having more

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[bill_powers]: important period of time, a bonding periodm. Tell tell you know, people are

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[bill_powers]: listening. What you mean by it when you said to Tender years, or what was the

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[bill_powers]: kind of the old school or maybe common law philosophy On this well, I mean, I

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[bill_powers]: think the old school philosophy that let that

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[bill_powers]: during those younger years when the child is breastfeeding or

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[bill_powers]: needing a lot of motherly attention, Um, that custody would go to mom.

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[bill_powers]: Um.

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[bill_powers]: That has since changed, Um, and

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[bill_powers]: Um. Courts now recognize the fact that dads or other moms are equally as

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[bill_powers]: capable to take care of the child during that period time period, right in

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[bill_powers]: there, ways. I don't want to focus too much on breastfeeding, but there are

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[bill_powers]: other ways to make sure the child's properly nourished, and that that's an

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[bill_powers]: another big picture. Rightem. when we talk about best interests, we talk about

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[bill_powers]: the mental well being of the child, the physical well being a child or

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[bill_powers]: children, So it could be arely getting food. Is the food appropriate? Are they

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[bill_powers]: seeing physicians or doctors, as the case may be? Do they have a roof over

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[bill_powers]: their head? Are they going to school and get an appropriate level of education?

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[bill_powers]: Do they have uh, valuable friend groups and fa familial groups and other

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[bill_powers]: parents involved in their life? It's meant to be holistic. It's meant to be um

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[bill_powers]: approached in a way of looking at all the different assets that are available

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[bill_powers]: to the child and Theys going be financial. So could be a relationships. So you

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[bill_powers]: mention are different types of custody. There could be legal custody. Uh, there

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[bill_powers]: could be shared physical custody. There could be decision making authority for

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[bill_powers]: certain types of issue Like well, a parent a, Uh decides issues regarding

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[bill_powers]: sporting events, Parent B, the sideides, issues of Uh schooling, Uh, parent A

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[bill_powers]: and b, Um share of joint responsibility for Um, religious upbringing and things

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[bill_powers]: like that again, This is. it could be really, really, really complicated. So,

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[bill_powers]: um, I think what you were saying, and and um, I'm sored to interruption this.

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[bill_powers]: But I think you said there's kind of a a preference for shared custody. A sense

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[bill_powers]: of that both parents A and B, whomever A and B may represent should be actively

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[bill_powers]: engaged in the child Because that isn't the best interest in a child from a

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[bill_powers]: developmental standpoint. Do I get it right correct? That's not necessarily

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[bill_powers]: saying fifty fifty custody. though I, I see a preference towards that where the

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[bill_powers]: parents

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[bill_powers]: are living in close range with one another? Um, and can get along with one

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[bill_powers]: another. Um. and there's no danger to the child at either house right right,

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[bill_powers]: but um,

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[bill_powers]: yes, the overarching principle I think these days is that the child benefits

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[bill_powers]: the most from spending substantial amounts of time with both parents. Let me

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[bill_powers]: let me have get you have a couple of ex. Possible exceptions to the role like

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[bill_powers]: what if

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[bill_powers]: the parent A is a substance abuse person, meaning they're either drinking too

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[bill_powers]: much or using an excessive amount of legal or illegal, Uh drugs. What if it's a

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[bill_powers]: a physically abusive environment? What if the children are not being properly

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[bill_powers]: supervised for long periods of time? One paent' working and they're leaving a

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[bill_powers]: small child at home? Um,

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[bill_powers]: those are things you think about as well. Oh, most definitely, Um, and that's

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[bill_powers]: often times when we end up outside A. of. well, excuse me, Um. that's when we

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[bill_powers]: end up in court, Um, because we need the judge to step in and protect that

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[bill_powers]: child.

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[bill_powers]: Um,

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[bill_powers]: and

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[bill_powers]: it just recently, I've had two cases where alcohol abese is an issue. Um, and

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[bill_powers]: we've crafted agreements that kind of give

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[bill_powers]: the person with the issue

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[bill_powers]: Um steps to prove him or herself.

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[bill_powers]: Um, in order to gradually gain custody back and prove their sopriety. Said,

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[bill_powers]: there are ways to protect the child within that the custody agreement right. I

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[bill_powers]: think it's fair to say that courts do not want children in dangerous

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[bill_powers]: environments. They don't want them subjected to illegal abusive and or

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[bill_powers]: unhealthy behaviors. Um, I'll tell you one thing we've seen, Uh, not a lot of.

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[bill_powers]: but it's I. I thought we'd see more. but occasionally, uh, you know who gets

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[bill_powers]: the code shot. who doesn't want to do to Kovin Shaw, And who you know? I. I

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[bill_powers]: actually had one last year where one parent was less concerned about that and

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[bill_powers]: travelling and seeing lots of family And not really. The allegation was not

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[bill_powers]: really taking many steps as precaution, social disty and mass. Where be one,

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[bill_powers]: and I'm not trying to weigh into the the, the strength or or, or the value of

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[bill_powers]: those things. But um,

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[bill_powers]: you know, and another parent. In that instance you know, was much more

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[bill_powers]: restrictive and and it applied to sporting events in schooling and and travel

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[bill_powers]: on airplanes, and being in large groups of people. And these are type of things

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[bill_powers]: we deal with. In fact, that when we had last year was about this time we did a.

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[bill_powers]: There was a bunch of, had a bunch of em mercency hearings. And and it really,

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[bill_powers]: um,

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[bill_powers]: uh, it can be problematic. So you know number one, Um, try to stay out of court

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[bill_powers]: if you can

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[bill_powers]: on number two. Uh, know or understand that there is a preference, or at least

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[bill_powers]: an assumption that there would be some level shared custody When whatever that

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[bill_powers]: may mean, you know all kinds of little asterk lawyers call '. caveats. I mean a

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[bill_powers]: million different exceptions to use. And what's number three? caring? number

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[bill_powers]: three, Um, If keep the kids out of it

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[bill_powers]: that means

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[bill_powers]: I always advise my clients if the child is in your care. don't ask about what's

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[bill_powers]: going on at Mam or dad's house.

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[bill_powers]: If the child is in your care.

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[bill_powers]: don't

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[bill_powers]: ask child to give a message to my mom or dad.

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[bill_powers]: Um, don't tell kids about what's going on in court. frankly, um, don't show

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[bill_powers]: kids the allegations into the complaint.

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[bill_powers]: I think as much as you can keep them insulated from this process

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[bill_powers]: because that will ▁ultimately prove

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[bill_powers]: better for their well being in the long long term,

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[bill_powers]: and it may feel better to run someone down in a short term

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[bill_powers]: and the long term. Not only is it not healthy to the child, but you may be

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[bill_powers]: called on the carpet of for disparaging Uh, the other parent.

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[bill_powers]: the courts uh regularly will would prevent abrders or protective orders saying

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[bill_powers]: you're not going to do this or you don't want to see allegations that you're

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[bill_powers]: trying to turn one child away from a parent, and Um, so I, I use the commanal

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[bill_powers]: amaalgy, um, from beginn. I' use another one that I've heard on more than one

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[bill_powers]: occasion. Is if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all,

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[bill_powers]: meaning you may have uh conversations with your co parent. Whats an ex husband

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[bill_powers]: or ex wife or an ex, uh, partner, Uh, under law or not or law, you that you

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[bill_powers]: don't have to be married to have these um, legally married to have these issues

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[bill_powers]: come up with children. Uh, but it's really a a bad idea both for the child and

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[bill_powers]: your own case to be running down this person. It also an ▁urban. Study after

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[bill_powers]: study on this in a new this, where parent A will say,

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[bill_powers]: tell your mamma I, I pick up Christmas this year and I'm not going be sending

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[bill_powers]: her to Alamoi, kind of deal, or Oh, And you do not want to use the child in a

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[bill_powers]: child's intermew, or you also don't want to be using a child as a tool or a

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[bill_powers]: weapon against the other, And this is. It is so frustrating legal counsel to

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[bill_powers]: deal with this because you can see your client just walking towards the abyss

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[bill_powers]: and like, Don't do that. don't do that. Don't do that. You're going to harm

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[bill_powers]: yourself and go harm your job. So right, number three is

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[bill_powers]: keep kids out of it. Okay so number four is Um. this is not self serving. Um,

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[bill_powers]: uh, we say engage professionals. If needed, professionals may mean legal

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[bill_powers]: professionals, roies. it may mean child custody counsellors or experts,

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[bill_powers]: psychologist, psychiatrists, um physicians, I mean

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[bill_powers]: if if if there are things that are needed for the best interests in the child,

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[bill_powers]: you may have to employ different levels of professional. So what do you mean by

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[bill_powers]: engaging professionals? Right? And I was kind of thinking this of this and that

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[bill_powers]: twofold um

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[bill_powers]: idea, Um, number one professionals for the children, number two professionals

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[bill_powers]: for the parents right. So let's say your child is showing some

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[bill_powers]: behaviors that lead you to believe that here or she is having issues with this

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[bill_powers]: separation or with this two parent household or two household parenting

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[bill_powers]: arrangement. Then I think it's a good idea to get the child psychologist on

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[bill_powers]: board to give your child a separate outlet. Um, to talk about his or her

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[bill_powers]: feelings, Um, and process what is going on in his or her life,

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[bill_powers]: Um, on the parent side of that, I'm talking about.

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[bill_powers]: Um.

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[bill_powers]: Courts can appoint people like a parenting coordinator. Right, if you and your

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[bill_powers]: co parent cannot get along, this person can step in between and help Yeal and

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[bill_powers]: the co parent make decisions Um, on behalf of your minor child and try to come

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[bill_powers]: to an agreement

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[bill_powers]: And it's interesting you say, because I actually one of my favorite things I

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[bill_powers]: think I've ever done professionally is serving as a best interest, uh, turning

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[bill_powers]: toth rate, which is the kind of the pre versus post ajudication or judgment

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[bill_powers]: type of parent and coordinator, role pairing coordinators for you, all in a

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[bill_powers]: way, work like a an A budds. Person, meaning that they, they serve with a

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[bill_powers]: certain level, discretion by court order, and rather than go into court and

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[bill_powers]: argue about late visitation or support issues, or or, and most of that's

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[bill_powers]: sports, probably not a good idea, but the raising of a child or how the people

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[bill_powers]: are interacting, the parent coordinator can direct or order certain things, Um

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[bill_powers]: to follow through, So there could be family counseling. It could be

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[bill_powers]: individually counselling for the child. there could be group counseling. there

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[bill_powers]: could be an individual counselling for more than the parents. Uh, there are a

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[bill_powers]: lot of different Um ways of going about that. A best interest Um attorney is.

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[bill_powers]: also, it tends to be by statute, actually, by inter. they called high conflict

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[bill_powers]: matters. Since where the parties are not getting along, Uh, there's some level

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[bill_powers]: of imediacy, ordinarily, that can't get to an adjudication. Mean the court has

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[bill_powers]: not had been discovery yet, or there have been inrogatories or depositions, But

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[bill_powers]: there needs to be some level of involvement from a neutral third party. The

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[bill_powers]: best interest Council, who,

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[bill_powers]: Um, you know, coordinates in a way. there is a technical legal difference. Uh,

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[bill_powers]: there are confidentiality issues. It's it's really interesting, but um, that's

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[bill_powers]: what we mean by getting professionals in needed. And if you think hey, listen,

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[bill_powers]: I, I have tried getting along with this person

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[bill_powers]: and we probably need some third party. You know, as an attorney, we advocate

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[bill_powers]: for a particular cliim. Your other spouse or uh partner may have attorney that

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[bill_powers]: advocates for them them, and then there may be a third person That kind of

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[bill_powers]: works as a refere. Mean that's the way to think about parenting. Coordinor or

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[bill_powers]: best interest is a referee. You can call some Fs and throw some flags. Yeah, I

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[bill_powers]: often imagine them in the referee outfit.

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[bill_powers]: You know the hard part, I'll assume. Uh, you don't have instant replayable you,

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[bill_powers]: Ocs.

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[bill_powers]: I seen as well these type

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[bill_powers]: are so number five, Um, and I, she did a bonus here, which Mhm, so close. but

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[bill_powers]: number five is,

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[bill_powers]: no matter how well you and your co parent get along, it's always our suggestion

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[bill_powers]: suggestion to get an order in an agreement in place.

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[bill_powers]: Um.

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[bill_powers]: for example,

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[bill_powers]: Um,

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[bill_powers]: we recently had a case where it was an eight year old child.

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[bill_powers]: Yeah, um, where we' produc

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[bill_powers]: youngel. Yeah, we had a younger child under the age of twelve that the parents

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[bill_powers]: had gone quite a substantial amount of time without an order in place. Um. they

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[bill_powers]: were able to pretty effectively co paarent and pretty effectively come up with

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[bill_powers]: a schedule for the child. However,

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[bill_powers]: something happened and

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[bill_powers]: that co parenting relationship kind of broke down, And what resulted in that

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[bill_powers]: was a lot of money

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[bill_powers]: spent on lawyers, Um, and a lot of stress

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[bill_powers]: for not only the parents but the child who was unable to see one of his parents

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[bill_powers]: for six weeks,

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[bill_powers]: Um.

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[bill_powers]: That could have been prevented if there had already been an order in place,

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[bill_powers]: outlining

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[bill_powers]: where the child was staying, and when the child

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[bill_powers]: you know was going to either parents' house. Um.

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[bill_powers]: Well, and this is I feeling my rule in this used to be the Bu down guy, so I

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[bill_powers]: understand it. Um.

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[bill_powers]: but

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[bill_powers]: um, this is the. everything's good until it isn't rule meaning.

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[bill_powers]: And and there's a reason why we mentioned ages, because as children get older,

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[bill_powers]: the courts give them more. Um, I call it agency, the more of a voice in the

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[bill_powers]: process,

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[bill_powers]: and the courts are more interested in. not that they're not always interested

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[bill_powers]: in what, uh, the best interests in children. But as children get older, they

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[bill_powers]: may have a more a greater ability to express their opinion about. I want to

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[bill_powers]: spend more time with mom or dad's said, you know, and uh, better this or parent

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[bill_powers]: A or be. However, we want to break it down, but Um,

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[bill_powers]: well, we've seen agreements. Um. where parents are never married. They don't

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[bill_powers]: really see each other other than during a drop off and pick up. everything's

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[bill_powers]: fine. Everything's uh, hunky dory children, child is doing well in school

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[bill_powers]: and then something comes up. Um, my child wants to go out for cheerleading. or

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[bill_powers]: you know, beauty pageants and parent Be says I hate those beauty pageants.

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[bill_powers]: They're They're terrible for the child. You are traveling all over the place.

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[bill_powers]: Uh, when they're gone or not getting the kind of schooling and then there's

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[bill_powers]: this dispute or you know there's this really great opportunity to go to school

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[bill_powers]: B,

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[bill_powers]: and

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[bill_powers]: uh, I, while they're doing fine at

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[bill_powers]: Um, you know Meckenberg County B school. I want to send them to another program

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[bill_powers]: and the parent says I don't wa to do that. I like them, being you know, all

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[bill_powers]: their friends are mecab. They' teachers are that group be Um, so

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[bill_powers]: I think, and I agree with you, Carolin, the value of having these agreements

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[bill_powers]: and they can get very complicated in them themselves.

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[bill_powers]: Um, or they could be big picture as well. But to have a a. what? what? What do

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[bill_powers]: you call these By way from a legal standpoint, I mean, what are lawyers refer?

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[bill_powers]: to? These type of agreements involve parents and children'. It a custody order.

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[bill_powers]: I just said children.

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[bill_powers]: Yeah, Um, and sometimes I for parent agreements or or things like that, but

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[bill_powers]: it's not just the sign off between the parties You can do that. But why do you

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[bill_powers]: like an order? I like an order because it has a little bit of extra teeth

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[bill_powers]: right, So if one party's not behaving or acting badly, you can file emotion for

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[bill_powers]: contempt. Basically asking the court

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[bill_powers]: to

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[bill_powers]: admonish or punish the other side for not following the court order, Um, and

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[bill_powers]: going back on what you said,

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[bill_powers]: you know, as far as these issues coming up, if you don't have an order. If you

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[bill_powers]: do have an order, you have a framework in place for making these decisions. Um,

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[bill_powers]: And so I think that's a beneficial part of all of it, and you don't have to

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[bill_powers]: follow the order to the T. A, in all of my orders, I put a term that says the

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[bill_powers]: parties agree that from time to time they may alter this order for the best

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[bill_powers]: interest of the child, And so um,

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[bill_powers]: it's just nice to have that framework in place if there are issues right. So I

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[bill_powers]: think this is a little bit of legal, Los, but'rescribing it as a difference

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[bill_powers]: between just an agreement between the parties and an agreement between the

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[bill_powers]: parties that's signed off by a judge who says if you violate this you, you

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[bill_powers]: could be subject to

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[bill_powers]: civil and or criminal contempt. And we're not going to talk about civil and or

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[bill_powers]: criminal content today. It's a whole. Another podcast. If you look on academic

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[bill_powers]: involvement really long? We actually have uh, an episode on that. I was um,

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[bill_powers]: joined by another excellent uh, Faal, attorney in Charlotte. Um, who, uh, we

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[bill_powers]: went over that in a Pri. new dinner back on, and and update that because

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[bill_powers]: has changed a lot. Um with the case was when a lot of cases have coming. Ye

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[bill_powers]: know more than I can recall in the past, but okay, so let's go into the plus

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[bill_powers]: the bonus round. Um, go ahead on. right. so Um,

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[bill_powers]: my bonus round is to find an attorney who is an experienced parent, and I, I

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[bill_powers]: say that's kind of based on my personal experience practicing as an attorney. I

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[bill_powers]: practiced for five and a half years, basically where I wasn't a parent, and now

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[bill_powers]: I've come back after being a parent for four years, and I feel like I'm more

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[bill_powers]: able to

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[bill_powers]: understand the practicality of these orders. Um, and kind of understand

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[bill_powers]: where the children are at in their life. Um, and I think if you find an

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[bill_powers]: attorney that has experienced these things as a parent, they're better better

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[bill_powers]: able to negotiate an agreement or argue for an outcome that is practical for

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[bill_powers]: you, but most importantly for your child in the future, Yeah, and I think

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[bill_powers]: there's in my mind, Um, and pract law is really. It's complicated and there's

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[bill_powers]: book learning and is practical experience. Uh, this morning I, I answered.

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[bill_powers]: That's a great point anymore. I thought about just this morning I was talking

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[bill_powers]: with a buddy of min, who, attorney Righ, and

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[bill_powers]: uh, I remember. it was been two or three years ago where I had a case and I

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[bill_powers]: remember saying to the other side, All this be tough year. The child was junior

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[bill_powers]: in high school

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[bill_powers]: and junior in high school. I mean, I don't know if you know this, but junior in

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[bill_powers]: high school's a big year and it's a year where

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[bill_powers]: Uh, if you play athletics, there may be some decisions made lifelong dreams

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[bill_powers]: that may or may not come to fruition. Uh, junior year when you take the essay

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[bill_powers]: to your a C, T.

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[bill_powers]: and while it's not always required in all schools now anymore, it's a standard

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[bill_powers]: practice. Take it. I took it once, maybe twice. Now think

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[bill_powers]: I took it when we used to click rocks together and had an advocac out for a

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[bill_powers]: math. But Um,

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[bill_powers]: and and it, I had just been through that at the time within a couple of three

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[bill_powers]: years, and my daughter, Um, I call her Mokey, Sarah. my daughter plays college

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[bill_powers]: athletics. Um, And and I remember the process of the interviewing with the

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[bill_powers]: teams. And do we want to go division one or division two or division three, Or

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[bill_powers]: is that even realistic? That's another thing. And then, Oh, you did well on the

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[bill_powers]: A, C, T, or to s. a T. Which school do you want to apply for and what major and

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[bill_powers]: junior year is a tough year. Not because you. only. you're just taking these

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[bill_powers]: courses they're making to say it right. and sometimes

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[bill_powers]: Um expectations have to be modulated. I have a friend who. That's what he does.

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[bill_powers]: He. He is a guidance counselor. Privately, That helps people. Um, Uh, explain

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[bill_powers]: the college application process, which it has become an incredibly complex

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[bill_powers]: labyrinth of different procedures and protocols, and by away, If you want to

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[bill_powers]: add in the Uh n C, double A or collegiate level sports, it gets even more

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[bill_powers]: complicated. I can imagine. because

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[bill_powers]: Um, you know, Does g P. A matter? Does it not matter? Um? Where? what? what

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[bill_powers]: position are you playing? Are you scholarship athlete or a non scholarship

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[bill_powers]: athlete? It is really, really, really, really complicated Point is, I think it

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[bill_powers]: helped me in working with Um. Some people that I'd been through that Mhm. um,

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[bill_powers]: uh, I wish I had had someone pull me aside and say it, Um,

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[bill_powers]: and and, and the longer we practice law, at least I practice a lot. the more I

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[bill_powers]: feel my individual life experiences have helped me to give some conteacts I say

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[bill_powers]: to clients all the time. I'm trying. I'm not trying to judge or seem like a Mr.

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[bill_powers]: Know at all. It just I think it helps to know why I say what I say and I've

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[bill_powers]: been there, and um, and uh, that's not to say that aren't very very good

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[bill_powers]: lawyers out there that have um. A, don't have children. that can't be quite

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[bill_powers]: good. I just think in in in in your selection of attorney. I don't think it

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[bill_powers]: hurts to ask around a little bit and say, probably was your legal experience

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[bill_powers]: and what your life experience, and right. What' your philosophy That that

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[bill_powers]: applies to it? Whether you want an attorney who tries to be more collaborative

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[bill_powers]: in nature, which we are admittedly very collaboratively oriented. Um, if you

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[bill_powers]: come to us, and and we perceive that you want to inflict pain through the

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[bill_powers]: courts, we'll probably recommend that you taught to some small attorneys and

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[bill_powers]: maybe look around, because I,

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[bill_powers]: Caroline, What's your philosophy Abus in accords to inflict pain? It never ends

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[bill_powers]: well, even if you win any money, and there are costs. I always reminded people,

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[bill_powers]: and this is in criminal cases and family. In all cases there are costs of

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[bill_powers]: associated with litigation. It just comes from somebody who' spent a lot of

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[bill_powers]: years duing it on in court. Um. their emotional cost. There are the cost of the

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[bill_powers]: attornity or cost of getting a result that you don't necessarily like or want.

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[bill_powers]: So, uh, maybe you do is wrap up and our, Uh, and our time here on law talk is

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[bill_powers]: go. maybe maybe hit us with these these five points. I sure will.

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[bill_powers]: Our first point is's try to keep it out of court. Our second point is to know

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[bill_powers]: that the preference generally these days is for shared custody. Our third point

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[bill_powers]: and maybe our most important point is to keep the kids out of it,

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[bill_powers]: and no, a number four that you can always engage professionals if you need it.

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[bill_powers]: And remember that

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[bill_powers]: even if you and the cohrent are getting along great, it's always a good idea to

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[bill_powers]: get an O. a parenting order or agreement in place, and then our bonus,

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[bill_powers]: rorowund.

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[bill_powers]: Um,

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[bill_powers]: it's to find an attorney whos a ex an experienced parent. Um, and I think that

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[bill_powers]: wraps it up for us, and I think it gives you a good overview of

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[bill_powers]: what our firm finds important.

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[bill_powers]: Um. in this process. Well, thank you so much, Caroline for joining us. If you

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[bill_powers]: have questions or topics for law talk and law talk. Um is intended as an

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[bill_powers]: educational resource. If you have an individual legal question or want to seek

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[bill_powers]: some sort of a formal opinion or advice, recommend to speak with an attorney.

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[bill_powers]: If you have topics of conversation, Rodards policy, Wa, how things work in

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[bill_powers]: court, Um the legal profession, E. If your law student want to know information

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[bill_powers]: about you, will you go to law school? That's what all talker for. Give us a

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[bill_powers]: ring at se o, four, three, four, two help, a seven, o, four, three, four, two,

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[bill_powers]: four, three, five seven.

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[bill_powers]: You've been listening to Lawock with Bill Powers, your resource for legal

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[bill_powers]: issues and legislation, practice tips, professionalism and policy discussions,

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[bill_powers]: Bill Powers is an educational resource. Only the information presented does not

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[bill_powers]: constitute legal advice and is not a substitute for consulting with an

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[bill_powers]: attorney. Every situation is unique. Therefore you should always consult with a

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[bill_powers]: licensed attorney before making any legal decision.