This week on the show, Joe Fier sits down for a second round with renowned sales expert Ari Galper, creator of the trust-based selling methodology. Their conversation dives deep into the challenges facing today’s sales environment—where automation and AI have made persuasion techniques ubiquitous, but trust remains rare and invaluable. Ari Galpershares how his “doctor-patient” approach to sales builds authentic trust without unnecessary persuasion, chasing, or follow-ups. Discover actionable strategies for cutting through the noise, connecting on a human level, and updating your sales mindset for the rapidly evolving AI era.

Topics Discussed

• The rise of AI in sales and its impact on buyer skepticism and trust
• Ari Galper’s pivotal story: realizing the need for a trust-based selling framework
• Why traditional rapport-building and value-add approaches don’t work pre-sale
• The “doctor-patient” model: diagnosing problems before prescribing solutions
• Transforming the sales conversation to prioritize truth, fit, and respect
• Specific trust-building techniques for first sales calls
• Ditching outdated sales scripts, rapport formulas, and the concept of “follow-ups”
• The role of trust in the age of AI: why human connection is becoming more valuable as automation increases
• How Ari Galper is leveraging AI to share his private sales IP with clients through ARIAI (Ari’s digital twin and trust-based AI advisor)
• Practical use cases for personalized AI in sales teams, content creation, and real-time advisory
• Building lasting community and legacy around trust-based selling, including live meetups and app development

Resources Mentioned

• Grab Ari's books "The Rise of AI, The Decline of Trust" and "Trust In A Split Second" for FREE!
• See the latest from Ari on his website AriGalper.com
• Listen to Ari's podcasts "Stump the Guru" and "Trust-Based Living"

If you enjoyed this deep dive into trust-based selling and the future of sales, help us spread the word! Subscribe to Hustle & Flowchart wherever you listen, leave a rating or review, and share your biggest takeaways with us on social media. Don’t miss the next episode—your hustle deserves the flow!

Want to learn how you can build your own Delphi clone or scale your content, coaching, and influence with AI? Head over to https://aibuildteam.ai/ to see how our team helps influencers and experts create, launch, and optimize their digital twins

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If AI can write basically any sales script that you can think of in seconds, how

do you actually earn trust with people?

Because everybody has access to the same tools.

So buyers right now, they're, they're trained to dodge persuasion.

There's just so much noise and so much coming at 'em.

So how do you stand out and how do you do it without chasing people, convincing

them, or even following up with people?

That's a, that's a big one there.

Ari Galper's back on the show today.

He's gonna break it all down and show you why the future is not

a whole bunch of automation that will do the selling for you.

It's actually something he calls trust-based selling.

He's gonna break down how that works and the little small tweaks that you can

make right now today so you can start selling with this whole new method.

So let's dive in

Ari, we're doing this, it is round two, only five years after the first round.

How are you doing?

Yeah, we still look the same, so you know, we haven't changed a bit.

Right.

Yeah.

Are we clones?

I don't know.

Like it will always look like 20 years now.

Uh, but yeah.

How, I mean, um, it, it, you're a San Diego guy originally, and I

thought that was, that's really cool.

You're definitely very far away from San Diego at this point.

Um, when was that move?

I, I actually, I'm just curious, when did you

Yeah.

So met my wife on a dating site 21 years ago.

Uh, she's from Sydney, Australia, where I live now.

She was living in Los Angeles.

We actually met in LA on a dating site, and then we started dating.

Then we came out here and I was like, wow, this is amazing too.

And then we, yeah.

I had a first son, so I've been here ever since.

And um, yeah, I have a virtual team, travel back and

forth, but so far, so good.

Is, uh, it's great.

Yes, and I'm happy.

We, we connected, reconnected, I don't know how long it's been, maybe a year

ago or so, and, um, I forget, he who originally put us in contact, but we

have a lot of mutual friends together.

And, um, you've been really creating some amazing technology around

your trust-based selling concept.

I mean, just what you've been doing for what, 25 plus years?

Yeah, it's hard to believe that, um, been that long.

But, uh, interestingly enough that all my IP was never made public.

Uh, I just never felt comfortable doing that.

Most, as you know, experts kind of moved the free line.

They dumped everything online to add so much value, and then

everything got commoditized.

So the timing was perfect for the tool we worked on.

Is, is that really the first coming out of your ip?

Wow.

Yeah, I only released 10%, um, public consumption content.

'cause I didn't feel right.

Taking 25 years, 17 million words and putting it for free online.

Everyone else did that 'cause I thought that was what you're

supposed to do back then.

But I just kept it and then all of a sudden, you know, AI came around

and I was like, oh, wait a second.

I can now use that for my private repository, only for my inner

circle clients and members.

So it's been, it's been great.

Has it been in your mind for a while?

Just like waiting for the moment to

I didn't know it was impo until AI came around.

I just had it sitting in there uploading files, you know, and

creating videos and storing everything.

But then

yeah.

technology came around.

And, and so yeah, we're hinting at the technology and, and folks

have probably heard, but the, the AI cloning, digital twin tech,

you know, built on the platform.

Delphi is, is what we're talking about here.

Obviously cloning can kind of have different definitions, but

yours Yeah, it's just trained on your, what, 17 million words.

Tons of years of, and what bunch of coaching calls, like there's

all sorts of stuff in there

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It's, uh, the whole body of work more than most people have.

You know, most people just have a couple books and some podcasts and

some videos, social posts, but.

You know, back previous to digital, we had to actually write and create things.

So we had like binders and courses and workshops.

So yeah, it's, it's great.

before we, because we'll definitely deep dive, I want to get your

mindset on how you're using it.

But obviously the big thing that we talk about often is, you know, AI shifting.

I mean, everybody's can, can ignore it now, but it's shifting

the way that we interact as humans, as people, and connection.

So I know you have a lot of thoughts there.

But take me, take me back to a little bit more of your story.

You know, like, uh, what makes Ari Galper and like, what do you, what do you do?

How do you bring yourself to the world and connect and, and support others?

Yeah, so I specialize in trust based selling.

Been in this niche for a long time, and.

Um, I'm also an entrepreneur, uh, so not just a creator.

So I've been evolving, uh, and uh, there's this pivotal story that happened

to me two decades ago that triggered me to kind of be in this business and

this genre, and that was when I used to be a sales manager in a tech company.

We launched the first online website data collection tools, and

now it's called Google Analytics.

Uh, but back then we were a small little business.

I was managing 18 salespeople at the time.

The inbound leads, the whales came to me, the big opportunities, and

this one call came from our website.

I grabbed the phone call and it was from a huge company.

You'd recognize the name, multiple websites, and a super static.

If I closed this one deal, it would double the business in one sale.

That's how big it was.

So my contacts like, really nice guys.

Like, all right, let's set up a, a, a phone call with our, our, our

folks over here and let's see a demo.

I'm like, okay.

You know, like any salesperson would do.

So, uh, comes Friday at four o'clock in the afternoon.

I'm in the conference room with my CEO closed door behind me.

And uh, back then we had the old Polycon speakerphone, like

the Star Trek looking phones.

It was like on the conference table.

I could take my arm, reach over, hit the speakerphone button, you know.

That's good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember him.

And so I dialed the number and my guy picks it up.

He's like, Hey, aria, how's it going?

He is like, good, good, good.

And he says to me, let us share with you who's on the line with us today.

I say, great.

Next thing I hear is.

My name's Mike.

I'm CEO.

I was like, Ooh, this is good.

My name's Chris.

I'm the head of Global it.

Perfect.

My name's Julia, head of Global Marketing.

Amazing.

Everybody on this call was a decision maker.

It's gonna happen today's the day.

So, uh, I introduced what I did what, or myself and what we do, and we had 'em all

log into an old school webinar tool back then where we actually put our code on

our, one of our websites as, as, as a, um.

Prototype to show them live what it looks like to see the

data coming in, in real time.

That was like the latest thing back then.

Yeah, it's a big deal.

Yeah.

So I'm logging in, start to talk, throw, walk the data, showing them how they can

use it, and I start hearing this noise on the phone call like, wow, this is great.

This is amazing.

Wall.

They start asking me all kinds of questions, you know, how does it work?

How do we install it?

Who your clients, how does the tech work?

They had all the right kinds of questions.

I had all the answers.

I mean, just, I knew the stuff.

So there was Thomas chemistry on this phone call, Joe.

It was like a love fest on the phone.

oh yeah, I know the, and that's, you're probably feeling great

too 'cause you're like, yeah,

Yeah.

They got the questions.

I got the answers.

Come to popup high five from the CEO in the back of the room.

He is like, you're doing well.

I said, Hey, just doing my thing.

So it wasn't aggressive, you know, just doing my, just answering

questions and an hour goes by.

My contact is me, Ari, this is amazing.

We love this.

Give us a call a couple weeks, follow up with us and we'll move this thing forward.

I'm like, ah, thank you, God.

It's like the dream sales call.

So I said my goodbyes.

I'm reaching for the phone, hit the off button, and I'm reaching for

the off button by complete accident.

Now it's the divine intervention.

My thumb hit the mute button instead of the off button.

They were right next to each other and a small click happened and

they thought I hung up the phone.

Uhhuh.

Go on.

And that split second, a voice inside of me said, Ari, go to the dark side.

Be a fly on the wall.

Go nowhere one's ever gone before in the world of selling.

So I listened in for a couple seconds.

They thought I had left the call, and what I heard there was shocking

and it changed my life and all my, it's why we're here today.

And here's what they said.

They said.

We're not gonna go with him.

Keep using him for more information and make sure we shop someplace else Cheaper.

Knife and heart twist.

I was in a state of shock.

Oh.

I snapped out of it, hit the off button, looked the wall, and I said

to myself, what did I do wrong?

I was friendly, I was competent, I was professional.

I was relationship oriented.

I provided value.

I did everything by the book that every sales guru ever

taught in the history of selling.

Literally, I had the books at home, went to the courses, did my thing, and then I

realized, said to myself, why were they comfortable with not telling me the truth?

Why this game?

And then I said to myself, this has to change.

So this is like a, a dysfunctional relationship where someone

doesn't tell the truth to someone else and someone walks away.

Having to chase the person and not get to the truth.

And I said, no way.

I'm gonna end this now and build my own methodology, my own platform,

my own contrarian view of the world where the goal of the process

is not to make the sale anymore.

The goal of the process, it's to get to the truth of whether

there's a fit there or not.

And letting go of that objective changed everything where I developed my own.

Framework, methodology, languaging as more of a doctor patient model than

a, let me add value to your world model, because value in itself, here's

the big news, has been commoditized.

that's a big shift.

And I mean, that's.

It's great that it happened, but I can imagine, because I was just thinking,

same analogy, heart and chest twist.

When you heard that, that feeling like you nailed it all.

So the difference between, let's let, I want you to break it down.

Now that you've obviously done this for a lot more years since that point.

The difference between the selling approach to the, the more, the connection

and truth approach that you have now.

What are some key things that

Yeah, so most people who sell, like everybody who hasn't experienced our world

yet is under the assumption and impression that their job is to build a connection,

create a relationship, add value, and then follow up with the person for a next step.

That is like the worst formula ever.

Now you're gonna go, what?

The, what?

That's what you're supposed to do in sales with somebody

followed, but no, you're not.

You're supposed to shift your thinking to more of a doctor patient metaphor, where

you are not to breathe the pharmacist and stop prescribing the medicine before the

doctor diagnosis the problem and provides the reality and clarity to that problem

to the patient where they feel like, oh.

I need to work with you to solve this together.

So our whole concept is your job.

And here's the big idea here, is not to build a relationship with

someone pre-sale, only post-sale.

Because what happens is if you start doing it in the beginning, Hey, how's it going?

Nice to meet you.

So where are you from?

You're kidding me.

So am I from the I'm you started doing that.

They know what you're doing.

You're, you're playing with that relationship thing.

They know it's kind of fake because real relationships take a lot of what time.

Mm-hmm.

You're trying to compress it right up front.

They know it's inauthentic.

Not that you're in, uh, inauthentic, but the process is inauthentic and now

you're now to peer-to-peer relationship.

You're like their buddy.

'cause you wanna be liked by them.

You think them liking you somehow will get them to trust you.

And that's what I figured out.

As the irony of all this is relationship building.

It creates trust over time, but does not create trust presale.

You don't have enough time for that unless you wanna wait a couple years

for them to hang out with you and your family, then they trust you maybe.

But in this day and age, the attention span with a new buyer is like, first

call is where it's supposed to happen.

how would you build connection on that first call pre-sale?

If you're not doing all that relationship building,

Great question.

So I'll give you an example.

Okay.

So let's just say you have a lead and a new opportunity, and they're gonna meet

with you on, on, on a Zoom call, okay?

Um, through LinkedIn or however you get your leads.

Okay?

So they just show up on Zoom, like this first thing you say

to them is nice to meet you Joe.

Nice to meet you as well.

Yep.

No more chitchat.

How you hear about us?

Oh, hey, I love your, hey, hey.

No more rapport building for them to connect with you.

This is not a connection call.

This is a trust call.

Trust is where you deep dive into their world at.

Hello.

So the next thing you say is this.

You say, if it's okay with you, ask permission.

If you wouldn't mind, maybe Joe, take a step back for a moment and walk me through

your background, uh, your situation up to your current business model.

And your challenges and we'll go from there.

Would that be okay with you?

Hmm.

Take your fingers like this over your mouth.

Sit back like a doctor, like a therapist.

Go like that.

I love it.

Yes.

Embody it, right?

What does this do?

First of all?

What for yourself?

It's literally shutting my mouth.

I

Don't talk.

It's gonna be so hard.

We want to engage, create chemistry moving forward.

We wanna have a great call.

Yeah.

Awesome call.

No, you do not.

Want a great call because the truth might be they aren't a fit with you.

yeah.

you start at that direction, you're in trouble.

So you sit back this, this tells 'em physically that this

call is not about you today.

It's only about them.

And that resets the conversation when they kind of go, oh, I've

gotta talk now, which they wanna do.

We don't

let them 'cause we're so

Yeah, they're silverfish, right?

They want to,

everybody wants to tell their story.

So then now they start downloading on you.

Write a hello to what I call top of the iceberg.

And you're listening.

You're listening to their problems, and as you're listening as an

expert, your instinct will be in the back of your mind to do what

as you're hearing their problem.

You're, you're trying, you're, you're, well, you're, hopefully you're

listening and actually taking it in.

You're nodding.

Yeah.

And you're trying to solve it in your mind going, yeah, this is, I can work.

Oh, yeah.

We can help these guys.

Definitely.

Oh yeah.

You're already making a sale in your head.

Yes.

You're, you're finding the angles, right?

Like

Correct.

And they can tell that from you.

They can pick it up in a second when you're not present.

So you have to not focus on the next step, but stay present only.

Listen, when they're done talking, you simply crystallize the problem.

Here's how you say it.

So what I'm hearing from you is your biggest challenges are X, Y, and Z,

and that's what you're trying to solve.

Is that right?

And they go.

Exactly

Hmm.

box number one.

He actually listens.

What a concept.

He's not trying to move me forward, trying to take me over

here he is just like the doctor.

He's listening,

Mm-hmm.

diagnosing.

Next question you ask is this, how long has this been a concern for you for.

What have you done so far on your own to try and resolve this?

okay.

Lemme get to what I call COI.

Cost of an action.

What's it costing them right now to have the problem not solve it.

This is the, this is where the real stuff happens, where you might say things.

Have you thought about how much is it costing you and your team every month?

By having that gap in the market or your team not performing by not solving this.

Now of course, they haven't thought about that because most business owners

only focus on the wins, not the losses.

Right,

We're taking them to the losses where the gap, where the actual problem is to

monetize the problem, to justify your fee, which will be a fraction of their problem.

and they're doing the math.

I'm sure they're figuring it out when you ask 'em that

Well,

you have, they, if they can't, you have to help them back the napkin, figure it out.

So you might say, so how many leads are you getting right now?

Every month we're getting about 10.

Well, how many do you think you need to hit your goal?

We need about 20.

Well, what's each lead worth to you?

Okay, so you're, you're basically losing X. So you just figure out

quickly what could be psychological impact when you go home at night?

Do you feel bad?

Or a kid, is your team not performing?

Whatever it might be, you have to help them get a sense.

Of the gravity and the seriousness of their pro.

It's like going to a doctor.

You say, Hey, my, my shoulder hurts, I think from a football injury.

He goes, lemme take a look.

Ah, it's a little sore.

Let's get you an MRI and see what's going on.

An x-ray gets the report, puts in the light glass bulb thing

and says, here's a problem.

You've got, you got a, a blood clot in your right calf

that's causing your shoulder

to cause a problem.

You're like, what?

Are you serious?

Absolutely.

That's what the diagnosis says.

You're like.

Oh my.

That Instant Trust is created because the doctor provided clarity on the

seriousness and the depth of the problem.

See, what we do in sales is we qualify, we go, boom, we can help you with that.

Lemme show you a demo.

And then just assume, right.

It's a lot of assumptions it seems like, without the questions and

miss the trust building.

Trust is when you go inside their world.

You stand there as long as you can, and they say to themselves,

man, this guy just gets me.

He's just not trying to make a sale.

He doesn't have an agenda.

He's not trying to move you forward.

He's not Here it comes, he's not selling.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Now, this is a big idea here.

I, I spoke at UCLA recently at their CEO forum for their alumni and told all

the CEOs in the room, first thing you have to do to get back to your office

is tell your sales team to stop selling.

They're

the reaction there?

what?

Who is this guy?

What is he nuts?

Now, I went through the process, explained.

They finally realized that the selling in itself is the problem.

Their approach and how they're approaching their market and their leads and

chasing ghosts and following up with them is where they're losing the money.

Hmm.

Hmm.

So then to replace selling with trust building.

Trust building is a new skill.

Most don't know how to do.

They know how to build relationships, but they know how to build

trust in a short amount of time.

That's the core of all this.

That's a big, it's a big sh it's a huge shift.

Uh, is, I'm, I'm kinda curious if like some specifics, so on a trust building

call, one of these calls, is there a length of time that you're shooting for

30 minutes max.

Max.

Got it.

And then you schedule them to the next step on your calendar.

There's no drop off.

By the way, if they are fit for you, there's no, I want to think about it.

Call me next week.

Some of your proposal.

No, they schedule with you a next step on your calendar

Bingo.

Yeah.

If they say you, they wanna think about it, that's because you did

what I call free consulting, free education dispensing medicine.

Now they gotta go process everything you just gave them.

That shift right there.

We are the doctors period.

That everybody can envision that doctor.

I just saw one yesterday Exactly.

That you, you say something, they're quiet and they're just all ears.

They're listening.

Maybe there's a question or maybe there's an answer or whatever it

might be, or clarification, and then we finally get to that problem or the

You may not like your doctor, but you respect them.

Your prospects don't respect you.

If you're selling, stop selling.

What is that next, uh, call?

I don't know what you would call it after the trust building call, demo call.

What does that look like?

Is that a completely different frame at that point, or is it

Well, there's two steps to that.

This, by the way, this is called what something we created called

the One Call Sales System.

We're in one meeting, 30 minutes.

They agree to schedule with you a next step in your process.

There's no drop off, no follow.

Yeah.

Okay, so the first portion of this is called going down the iceberg,

like I just gave you some samples of right there, but more structured using

what I call trust-based languaging.

It's very relaxed and easygoing.

And then the last question you ask 'em at the bottom of the process is

this one, is this a priority for you

Mm-hmm.

That's a good

to address and resolve once and for all?

If not, I'm okay either way.

Hands in the air.

Nothing to hide.

I'm okay.

See, this is their problem, not yours.

See, we always own it When we hear like, oh yeah, I can help you.

We take it on our shoulders, go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we could.

No, they, you're the adult in the room.

They're the child.

They gotta own their problem to commit to solving it.

This 'cause they called you for a meeting doesn't mean they want to solve.

It just means they're shopping for an answer.

They're different concepts.

You gotta make them own it.

It's their choice.

And that takes the pressure off of you completely.

and they may not wanna fix it.

After all that you let 'em go.

Have a nice day.

Nice to meet you.

I am a doctor.

I only saw problems that are imminent and dangerous.

If you don't have a problem right now, good luck to you.

Have a

Yeah.

You know where to find me if you really, if you're feeling up for

You got a problem you wanna solve.

That's what I can help you with, but right.

Anyway.

But most of them, if you do this right, say, yeah, I like to work on this.

Then what you say is you say, may I walk you through our roadmap process

for how you work from here Now, not your services, not your demo, not your pricing,

not your programs, not your value.

Whatever you do, not your solution solutions have been commoditized.

Do not sell solutions.

Sell your process for how you solve the problem.

And you show them a visual tool, what we call a roadmap, which is a simple

way to show them a framework of how you go about addressing their problems.

You, you visually show it to them, whether it's Zoom or In fact, yeah.

When I used to go to my meetings physically in the offices, these

CEOs, I to walk in with this under my arm, like an architect.

I'd have no, I would go in hands free.

Uh, Joe, no bag, no laptops, just walk in with this.

Uh, that's awesome.

Like, who, what is this guy?

Is he like an architect?

What's he, what's in that?

So when the time came, I'd say, may I walk you guys through my

roadmap process for how I work in terms of solving your problem?

See, I'm a consultant, not a salesperson.

So I, I, I popped this to the top, like this, very dramatic.

It kind of came out, the top, kind of popped, you know, and then I pull this

out and I laminated extra large, and I laid it in the conference table and said,

this is my roadmap process, phase one.

Phase two, phase three, phase four, phase five.

I showed 'em the roadmap.

Every head went like this.

Oh, what's that?

That's our roadmap process.

They're like, wow.

They're, they're enthralled.

They're like, wow, no one's ever showed us this.

And, and I, and I, and I'd say, here's my, I'd say this.

First of all, I never ask this.

Don't ever, never say this.

Never say, do you have any questions?

That's the worst thing they ever say, pre-sale.

'cause they'll pick your brain for free.

No.

You just, you're the doctor.

You show the process.

Don't let the patient dominate the process.

So you say, you say, um, ma, what are your thoughts on the roadmap process?

Guys

Sit back.

We're taking them to the losses where the gap, where the actual problem is to

monetize the problem, to justify your fee, which will be a fraction of their problem.

Yep.

now they're going, looking at it going, they always go that they go.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

It's common sense dudes.

And then you say, then you say, where, where would you like to go from here?

See, I create space to allow them to step into it.

I don't try to move them forward like salespeople do.

I allow 'em to trust the process.

Trust me, they have to buy the process first before they

can commit to working with me.

See, most of us think they gotta buy us our personalities, our product.

No, they gotta trust your process in itself.

Does not contain any selling in it.

It's so hard to get this if you're sell, because your whole world's

about you stepping forward.

no, I was just thinking of the script, like all the scripts that these sales

folks, like they're studying, they're rehearsing, they're all these, you know,

out the

window.

Burn it, burn all scripts don't need

It's so much easier.

Ari, your approach here.

It's just ki it's just like.

It's just common sense, just people will trust and work with you if you

just stop playing games with them.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

The sales games that we're all still in the back of our heads from all

the old sales managers who grew up in the old models, who still think

it's all about value creation and, uh, uh, chemistry and, and high

fives and next steps and follow up.

In fact, the, I'm gonna ask all your audience right now.

As of today to remove this word from your vocabulary and never use it again.

You ready for this one?

Hit me.

Uh, I'm gonna ask you all to never again use the phrase follow up

ever again, rest of your lives.

Not an email, not a phone call ever.

Again, why?

'cause follow up is a sales word.

Hi.

I'm just giving you a call to follow up writing in a follow up.

That's you moving things forward towards your goal.

That's put pressure on them and know you're in that game.

So what you say instead is you say, I'm just giving you a call to see if you have

any feedback on our previous conversation.

Feedback, not

on our proposal, any feed?

No.

Never ask questions.

Any.

No.

Don't ever do that unless you wanna do free consulting.

That's

fine.

Uh, or, or, you know, feedback on our last meeting, feedback's

going reverse away from the sale.

That elicits the truth.

'cause that's your goal is the truth of where you stand every step of the way.

If you have a pipeline rider, you're chasing these, these ghosts

who aren't calling you back.

That's because you don't have the skills for how to get the truth

of people in the first meeting.

this is, this is huge.

It's, what do you think of next steps?

Like, let's talk, it sounds like another salesy type of term or phrase.

Well, there are no next steps because you schedule them to your, on your

calendar every step of the way.

You become what I call a calendar by appointment business.

You only work off the calendar.

There is no follow up.

Ah, see that's even better.

One less

our, we teach our clients to become what I call a buy appointment only.

Where they only work on their calendar.

They never work off their calendar.

Most sales teams spend 80% of the time off the calendar chasing

leads, doing admin work, which is a massive loss to everybody.

It's the worst thing to be doing.

Just schedule them to a next step on your calendar to move things forward.

They don't wanna schedule with you.

Guess what that's telling you?

Not committed.

They don't really want it.

They don't trust you.

Ah,

They don't trust you.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's the hardest part of this, Joe, is people saying, oh

shit, I'm the problem, not them.

Yep.

Because I'll just be on, you know, I, I feel like I connect really,

I've definitely been guilty of.

Pretty much everything you've said here so far.

So I'm, I'm, I swear it's, it's, uh, so this is square

here in the middle of the eyes.

Uh, but again, it seems like a, a, a simple approach to, to tweak.

'cause I, I can visualize it and it actually feels almost freeing because

it's less work, it's more connection.

I feel like it actually allows people like us who.

You know, maybe a little bit more, um, I don't know, like we just have that

natural knack to connect with people, but we get away from the structure

because that's where I've always, when I, whenever I see the structure of

sales, that's where I'm like, oh, shit.

Now I'm in my head.

Now I'm like, what was that next thing on the bulleted list that I gotta go look at?

You know, it's, no, there's none

Yeah.

You don't have to change your personality or who you are.

What you have to do is be cly aware of what they don't want to hear.

They don't want to hear about you.

They don't wanna hear about you.

Now, that's seductive.

'cause they, you, they, you think they do?

Oh yeah.

I'm looking for some help around x.

What, what off, what?

What solutions do you have?

Oh yeah.

We gotta see, we think.

They really want the medicine.

But the truth is, I discovered is they wanna know if they can trust

you first before the medicine.

That's what we all miss.

That's it.

I mean, that's like any doctor too.

If you were just to think, you might respect a whole bunch of 'em, but

you're like, eh, this one, nah.

Not into

think about when you go to a doctor for a second opinion, does

it look at the first opinion?

No, he doesn't care what someone else said.

He has to go through a regimented process.

Otherwise, he goes to jail from malpractice.

that's right.

A lot of reps go to she go to jail from mal practice.

Yeah.

Geez.

You should put that kind of pressure on ourselves, huh?

Like, no, maybe not that

this you just gotta detox.

Detox from the old ways and it's hard to break.

Detox from the Hopium.

I hope you, it truly is.

Well, talk to me now.

YII do wanna, I, I wanna pivot now a little bit to the, the world of ai because

they're, I mean, talk about, uh, outreach and follow up and all these things.

I feel like it's completely being just, I mean, everything's noisy.

Inboxes are cluttered, everything's just.

It's a mess.

So yeah, I mean, being on the calendar I feel like is the most gold place

to be for anybody at this phase.

Right.

So what are your thoughts on AI and how it fits into what we're talking about here?

Like I guess first impressions?

Yeah.

yeah.

You know, obviously I know a lot about it.

Uh, we can talk about that later.

But the essence, and you, you got my book there, I think, you

know

Handy.

Yeah.

The rise of the AI and the Decline of Trust, how Great Business.

So I wrote that book with Micah Manifesto essentially, and the concept is that.

As ai, uh, increases, this creates more of a gap that where we realize

that human beings or people in business realize they don't even know how

to create trust with other people.

Mm-hmm.

It's the gap which puts the burden on us to learn how to get

better at building trust in our sales process with other people.

So that, that, that whole gap is, is helping everyone recognize,

oh, I better get better.

Trust building with humans.

Otherwise, the humans are gonna go trust even more.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, I think of ai, you know, so I've been doing the cloning

thing for almost three years now.

And the thing that brought me to the tech, even before I knew which

platform I was gonna use or anything, it was just I wanted to make a deeper

conversation with people listening to this podcast or watching it.

It all started with this show, and, uh, you know, it was, it was purely

to make a, a, a richer conversation and connection with people.

And yeah, I feel like the cloning technology's gotten better at doing that.

There are ways that, that it can engage in richer ways and,

and you know, time things out.

And automate, but obviously you can go too far on all this stuff.

But, uh, I see the role of people and connection just getting more valuable

by the minute, by the second with more of this AI being, um, developed,

but also people using it because you're seeing people just use it to

completely replace their own thinking, their own connection, outreach.

I dunno if that's a dirty word too.

It kind of feels like it, but

you cannot discount the fact that if you have a business and

you're trying to get a new client.

And if you're not skilled in at black belt at trust building, you're in trouble

because, um, AI is getting better, smarter, more empathetic all the time.

So it's us against them, the machines essentially.

So, um, it's, it's, if you close that gap with yourself and amass

the art of this, you don't have to worry ever again about your business.

what does trust look like in this new world of ai?

you know, you can use your AI systems and tools for certain situations

where people need your expertise.

Absolutely.

But they won't access or use it unless they trust you first.

It's like.

true.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just because you've got this thing doesn't mean I don't wanna even go use it or,

but, so there is a pre-process that has to occur before someone's gonna want to

trust your, whatever your solution AI solution is, and that that's what this is.

This is adding trust to the marketing and sales pre-pro to ensure you

are the doctor in the process and not one of many pharmacists that

who are in the same shopping mall.

Hmm.

That's a good analogy.

we're now a commoditized economy.

Okay?

Everyone's got the latest tools for everything.

So if you think you're gonna win with that alone, you're, you're,

you're for a rude awakening,

if we all have the same, I mean that's why even software development now,

you have so many people, you either owners or engineers, they're seeing

like, how the hell do I build a moat?

Again, back to trust, right?

It's, it goes back to connect on, on that level there with the

right people and then, and then.

What the products can even build trust within, you know, these, these tools

so, the importance of humans, I mean, I, it just seems like everything,

you know, it's almost like a flip thing probably in the minds of most

people is like, oh, I'm gonna use AI to enhance what I'm doing, but

I was at a business group meeting the other day and.

This, this, this guy's like, I got a new idea.

I'm so, I just spent a hundred thousand dollars on a new app.

I'm like, what?

What's the app?

Oh yeah.

When, when, when family passes and dies, we wanna take all their photos

and scan them and, and everybody in the family can have them.

I'm like, well, isn't there like, like Google photos?

Like, isn't there like other tools?

Yeah, but it's just gonna be great 'cause they can share it.

I'm like, but I'm like, what about just get people, uh, to go out to people's

homes and the boxes that are left behind.

Physically go in there and scan everything.

That's where the real business is because they wanna leave stuff in the box.

It's like, you know, he's like, but that's too, uh, you know, that's too offline.

I'm like, but that's the problem you're solving.

They can't get them on.

Anyways.

It just like a while they get that.

But

who wants, wants, more, more fun to spend money on, on app development.

I think that's the, the per perception I see too.

And, and yeah.

At least folks who are early adopters, people who want to be first, they're,

yeah, it's going all digital or all, no human connection, you know, it's,

it's how, how do we eliminate that and automate everything, you know?

It's like, whoa, hold on.

No, no.

We don't just go to the automation phase from second one.

You know, we.

It's, and that's when I was doing some training.

I don't really do the AI consulting anymore.

That's what it all, very first thing.

Everybody wanted to automate first, like

completely backwards.

That's the last step.

Yeah.

Well, tell me how you're using ai, because I'm, I'm curious, you know, you have RE

ai, I would love for you to break that down, but also just other aspects of how

AI is being used within your own business.

so what I've done is I took all 25 years of my work, all my body

of work, which Amber made public, and I put it into the Delphi sort

of system with my own repository.

And it's my voice.

Uh, and it's not publicly available.

I know a lot of your, the users do that.

They put it for free.

Mine is not.

It's a paid membership access to get access to my work, which

is never made available online.

And it's part of our, our membership program called the Trust Movement.

But essentially how, how people are using it now.

It's fascinating.

I'm, I'm watching this live, but, um, they're having meetings with their teams.

And they bring RA AI in as a third party to listen and provide

advice to them as a group.

Um, I've got folks who are writing their social media content through it because

it brings it back a trust perspective.

Um, if you go to the general tools like Open that just scans the internet and

finds the average and kind of tries to make it work, but when you go to the, the

pure system, it's, it's beautiful thing.

Um, but you, you imagine that, I just, I told you earlier about the lady on the

phone yesterday who was with a client.

And she was typing in the right corner asking me, quote me questions on the ai.

I was giving the answers back and she made the sale in a way

she never thought was possible.

'cause use the right languaging at the right moment.

But those are all the kind of ways people are using, uh, my, my access to

that because it gives them a trust based view of the world that differentiates

some every from everybody else.

Uh, so it's almost like a companion for, for these folks

It's a, it's a 24 7 in-house sales advisor, trust based sales advisor that

become the third brain of the business.

third brain.

What's the second brain?

I'm just kinda

Hopefully that, I don't know.

I dunno.

It's like, let's, I got that from Starbucks.

Starbucks like the third place, you know, I got home, you got

work, then you got Starbucks.

That's like, okay, it's the third place, you know?

I dunno what the second one is.

It's a good point.

That's funny.

Yeah.

No, actually I saw that written in your book.

I'm like, I gotta ask him what the second place,

I know.

second brain,

a partner Maybe?

maybe.

Yeah.

That's, that's smart.

Yeah.

No, that's a, that's, it's such a powerful use case.

Yeah.

The old companion.

And I love the fact that someone's using it during a call and

you know, we talked about how.

This tech keeps evolving.

So who knows how that can be integrated even further into what people are doing,

Yeah.

And I can see people using in, in, in Portuguese, in, in Italian, 'cause

they choose different languages.

That's

Yeah.

to watch that.

Yeah.

That's cool.

yeah.

I see that in my own too.

I'm like, I don't even know what language I'm looking at, but I'm

speaking it.

This is crazy.

What other, yeah.

So it sounds like the way that RRAI is being used, it's um,

so it's only to your Yeah.

Your private members, your, your clients

there.

Yeah.

members only.

It'll never maybe

Yeah,

public.

Ever.

Yeah,

that's, it's awesome.

I love the branding you've put around it too, like you've made, it's, it's

definitely in your, like you've kind of wrapped it into everything you're doing.

It's a big staple it seems like.

Yeah.

Now it's gonna go inside of our, our new app we're launching, and the app's

gonna be called Selling With Trust.

That's the name of the app.

And then once you're a free member, you can access it, uh, on a trial basis

and you can access my courses for free.

Um, and inside our membership group would be called, um, the trust movement.

Trust me,

We're gonna create different meeting meetups around the

world, different cities.

We will get together physically in a room and talk about their

businesses based upon trust.

So we're gonna really go big with this.

Keep me looped in on that.

I definitely, you know, selfishly want to help you out and see where

this goes too, because I know you're, you've, um, in terms of usage just

said this right before we recorded.

I was like, I think you are in the top 1% or even higher of the amount of

usage that you personally have done.

I mean, it was early on and I saw it.

well over a thousand messages.

I'm like, woo.

All right.

Active use.

So you know it inside and out.

Better probably than most people, honestly, you know, using it.

And I think that's the key thing.

Right.

Do you, do you train people like how use cases or ways to use it

or do you just kinda let 'em,

it's amazing that you can take a thought and then just say it to

RAI and it gives you back what you.

Would have liked to have said, like, for instance, I, I, I, I wrote, I

wanted to write a rap song about my son Toby, who has Down Syndrome.

He likes rap.

He is, he's 21 years old.

So I, I just, I I should play it for you.

It's really outta fun.

But, um, I'll use an AI tool for the music side, but I, I simply,

I simply, I simply said, and I, I want you to write me a lyrical rap

about my son Toby's Down syndrome.

He's very outgoing.

He is loving, he loves basketball lives.

Wwe e he's got lots of friends.

I just said that.

And it came back with the most beautiful poetic rap ever.

And I used this suno.com to make the song and um, oh my God, everyone's loving it.

It's just such a great song.

Again, so many use cases and, um, one of the cool things, and maybe you've

done this, is to literally ask it, like, Hey, give me like a laundry

list, 50 ways I can use you or engage with, you know, RE ai, for instance.

So.

Yeah.

And, and go crazy.

Get creative.

Who knows?

You know?

And I mean, maybe even sending songs to some of your clients could be good.

You know, it's another

little,

good idea.

Oh, that's a good idea.

Yeah,

there you go.

Try it out.

Try it out.

There you go.

Well, Ari, what, um, just to wrap it up here, uh, tell me, I

guess there's two fronts there.

Uh, definitely.

Tell me about a little bit more about the book or how people can go get

this and follow what you got going on.

Sure.

Well, I would just go to, uh, www the trust book.com.

Pretty common sense, the trust book.com.

In there you'll get my latest book, which is the one that Joe has in his

hand, which is the Rise of ai, the Decline of Trust, and you can get

my, uh, trust in a split second book.

My new one also, which is all about, we talked about earlier.

So we'll get that to you for free in the mail.

We will, that's actually hard copy.

Non-digital.

We put stamps.

Those are square things that are like sticky.

Put those on the envelope.

We'll mail you the, the book in the mail for free.

And if you want, on the way out, you have a chance to have a chat with us as well.

Click the, uh, the calendar option and then we can have a chat about

your business and figure out where the holes are and then give

you some thoughts around that.

So yeah, look, you can stay as you are.

And play the numbers game or make a shift because the world's

shifting faster than you are.

And that's what we do.

We just spend time working with people on, on that transformation.

Well, you, you definitely, I'm not lying.

You, you hit me.

Right, right, right between the eyes here, Ari.

So I'll be listening back studying this one.

Um, what's the, I was kind of, I'm always curious where you're thinking

things are gonna go for yourself.

What are you excited about in the next, you know, it's hard to predict, but

like a couple years from now, is there

I, I'm really excited about our community.

We're building,

you know, communities last hundreds of years.

Religions last hundreds of years.

You know, tech, tech changes all the time.

I want to build something that lasts forever, even beyond as a legacy for

me, beyond my, when I, when I passed one day, I want this business to go ever,

because trust is, is ev, is is evergreen.

So what we do, it is not related to technology per se, but.

I wanna build a community that's global.

Uh, and every city have these meetups, these meetings, um, where I can tour

around and have a centralized app where people can get all my latest shows.

As you know, I have the Stump the Guru show myself, where people jump

on and try and stump me with their toughest questions that are podcast.

You can get that on Spotify.

Stump the guru.com with Ari Galperin.

Oh, a new one coming out now, a new show off the

back of this called How to, uh, live a Trust-Based Life.

And we're expanding this around the idea of how to live a life with

trust with your family and friends.

Um, and a lot of it's from the Toby's work, but uh, we just

launched this book in our new show.

It's on Spotify called this title of the book as well.

It's me reading articles I've written from the book.

Um, but yeah, I'm trying to expand what we're doing to not just selling

per se, but also 'cause what we do is really trust-based communication.

It's teaching life skills for people to build trust, and it could be applied to

anything, relationships, kids marriage.

Um, I, I once saved a marriage and someone said, Ari, you saved my marriage.

Like, what do you mean we're about to get divorced?

And I finally realized I gotta stop being the pharmacist and be the

doctor and I gotta listen better.

And I said to her, would you be open to us talking this through?

Like, it sounds so simple, but he was saying the wrong words to her,

like, we should work this out.

Like, but that languaging opened up the dialogue and they got back together again.

I was like, oh my God.

Like the applications of this, of this body of work is profound.

Yeah.

And, and I feel like more and more in the future as it goes, I, uh, my hope

is that I can, that community keeps building stronger and you're saving

more relationships, bonding people more,

And guess who's helped me write these books?

I have an idea.

Uh, would it be REAI.

Ari.

Hey.

I gotta lie.

I had a feeling

It's me, it's me writing the book to me.

So I like I the other weekend, I'm like, I've got that book idea.

I want you to write this cover.

I want you to write.

It just starts writing and I'm sitting exercising.

Uh, it says to me, should I go to chapter two now?

I said, yeah, keep writing.

Should I go chapter?

I keep writing and it's got exactly what it's, it is giving back to me.

What is my stuff?

But now scans all my work so.

It's, it's opened up the creator side of me into like a, a, a faucet

of, of, of water flowing out.

We're running a book now every couple weeks

no kidding.

and printing it.

So on a we, we, on a weekend, we create it and we print it on Monday

and it goes in the mail on Friday.

and what I realized.

If you're in the business of authority and positioning, here's my last key idea.

I figured out over all these years, the one with the most books wins

oh, really?

Oh, interesting.

because you're unquestionable, unassailable, unchallengeable.

You are the authority and you own your world.

I, I'm writing my, that book, I literally read your book on the plane yesterday.

I, I'm not lying.

And I mapped out a book that I've had in my head for a while, and

I ain't gonna lie, I thought, I thought you were using di um, REAI to

Well, it's, it's, I told it what I want for me, that I could not say myself.

It's just, it's like an, it's amazing how it articulates what you're thinking.

'cause the human can't see it all the way through like it

Mm,

that AI can

absolutely.

No, you're right.

It's, it's so true.

Um,

because everyone's got a book in their heads, but they can't get it out.

well, you know what, I'm, I'm gonna make a promise in, uh, next week

I'm gonna have that book written.

I, I'm telling you right now, and I will let you know, my

friend.

right.

Sounds good.

All right.

All right.

This has been fun.

Um, let's do it again and I'm rooting for you.

Let me know anytime I can support you.

All right.

Sounds good.

Alright, take care.