"What's your attachment style?" has become a common first date or dinner party question. And for good reason — we can build better relationships when we understand our own tendencies in relationships.

But did you know that there are a number of attachment theory myths circulating that might be holding you back from finding love and companionship?

Today we explore which attachment styles are healthy, whether it's possible to have more than one style, whether/how you can change your style, and how understanding attachment theory isn't a panacea for all relationship issues.

P.S. Make sure to listen all the way through to hear Josh and Jessica awkwardly singing about attachment.

Key Takeaways

00:00 - Intro

02:54 - Myth #1: Your attachment styles developed as a result of early childhood experiences.

05:14 - Myth #2: Your attachment style is fixed.

09:28 - Myth #3: Insecure attachment is unhealthy or bad.

14:49 - Myth #4: You're just one style.

29:15 - Myth #5: If you’re insecurely attached, you can’t build secure relationships (unless you find securely attached people).

33:44 - Myth #6: In order to build a secure relationship, you have to develop secure attachment first.

36:22 - Myth #7: Attachment theory explains everything.

39:34 - Bonus Myth and final thoughts

Resources and links

For full show notes with links, visit relationshipcenter.com/podcast

Diane Poole Heller’s Attachment Styles Test

Wired for Love: A book by Stan Tatkin that explores how attachment theory can inform and improve romantic relationships.

Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find - and Keep - Love: a book by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller on adult attachment styles and how they impact relationships.

Beyond the Valentine Chocolates and Roses: Creating a Long-Lasting Relationship

The Ten Commandments for a Secure-Functioning Relationship

Like this show? Please leave us a review here - even a short review helps other people find the show!

We want to hear from you! Send us your thoughts, questions, and feedback to podcast@relationshipcenter.com

Looking for some help finding your person? Visit relationshipcenter.com

human beings, like all other land mammals don't, uh, associate

safety with a place, like a place that they can run to, but with a being.

Mm.

Isn't that so beautiful?

That's great.

Love that.

So I think that it's just so important, regardless of your style, that you and

your partner are in agreement that you're going to be one another's safe place.

From the relationship center, I'm psychotherapist, couples counselor

and dating coach Jessica Engle, and this is I Love You too, a show about

how to create and sustain meaningful

relationships.

I'm professional certified coach Josh Van Vliet.

On today's episode, we're gonna talk about seven common myths about attachment

and the surprising truths that will help you use attachment theory to

create secure functioning relationships.

We're so happy you're here, and please remember that this show is not a

substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health profession.

Hello and welcome everybody.

So we're gonna be talking about attachment and some myths about attachment that

we hear a lot in our work with folks.

And we really wanted to talk about this in particular because attachment

theory is a really useful lens for looking at relationships and how to

have successful long-term relationships.

And the more that we understand it the more it can help us improve

our relationships and improve the likelihood of us getting into a

relationship that we really love.

And it's pretty hot right now.

Mm-hmm.

A lot of people are talking about it and we see some some pretty common

misunderstandings about attachment theory that negatively impact some of

our clients and some of our loved ones.

And so we we're excited to get into it today so that you can

learn some of the, the truths about attachment that will help you use it

effectively in your life and your new

relationships.

Yes, absolutely.

And we are just wanting to outline for you what we're not

gonna go over in this episode.

This is not gonna be a basic overview of Attachment Theory.

There's really great information out there already reviewing the basics.

If you aren't familiar with Attachment Theory or your styles, we

will direct you to the show notes.

We're gonna link you to Diane Pool Heller's assessment.

I love that one for really determining what your style is or styles are.

And then the book, wired for Love by Stan Tatkin is a great one.

The original book that hit the pop psychology world, I don't know how long

ago now, it must have been 13 years ago.

It was attached by Levine and Heller, uh, that one a lot of people also swear by.

So those are a few different resources to check out just to get

the basics of attachment theory.

All right, well let's just get right into it.

We've got seven myths about attachment that will be busting on today's episode.

And the first one is this, your attachment style developed as a

result of early childhood experiences.

So why is this one a myth?.

Yeah.

So this one is kind of a myth.

Your attachment style does absolutely develop from early childhood experiences.

Some theorists actually estimate about 90% of your reactions in

current day relationships are based on early attachment experiences.

Uh, the thing is, that's not the only thing that impacts attachment style.

So we are malleable beings.

There is something called neuroplasticity.

And, uh, we do adjust our style based off of all the relationship

experiences we have in our life.

So, uh, an adult relationship can shift you from one style to the other.

Love it.

We're always learning, we're always growing.

Relationships in adulthood, uh, trauma, other things can

impact our attachment style.

But why is this especially important for us as adults now?

Right.

Yeah.

I think that this is an important myth to bust because people who grew up in

say a secure family or secure seeming family may actually experience themselves

as insecure in relationship as adults and feel confused or ashamed about that.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think it's really important to recognize like, yeah, you may have come

from a really secure family and maybe that boyfriend you had in high school

who really struggled to treat you, uh, well or consistently also impacted you.

And so it would make perfect sense that you might feel anxious

in your current relationship.

So that's one reason why it's important just to recognize attachment

styles can be rooted in adult experiences just to make sure that

you're looking at all the different pieces to understand your own style.

The second piece is that, because we have that neuroplasticity, that means

if you grew up in a family, uh, that was insecure, that means you have the

capacity to earn secure attachment, which is the sort of scientific term

for just developing secure attachment.

Um, so that's really good news.

You aren't boxed in by your early childhood

experiences.

I feel like that leads us really naturally into our second myth.

Which is that your attachment style is fixed.

Yes.

And I know that this was one of the, one of the misconceptions that

I had that initially turned me off attachment theory at the beginning

because it seemed like this way of like assessing someone's value.

Like I, if you're have a secure attachment style, you're good.

If you have an insecure attachment style, you're bad.

Mm-hmm.

And you're stuck with it, so it sucks to be you.

Right.

And it didn't feel like a very helpful or empowering framework

for understanding things.

Um, and so that's why I was ex especially excited to.

Learn this, that uh, it's not true that your attachment style is fixed.

Just like we started to talk about in the first myth that it can impact change over

time and different experiences that we have throughout our life will impact that.

Mm-hmm.

What else would you like to say about this one?

Yeah, well, I mean, one interesting to statistic Levine and

Heller, the authors have attached the book I mentioned earlier.

They point out in their book that one in four people changes their attachment

style once in a four year period.

Wow.

Yeah.

So

that makes it very clear how very not fixed it is.

That's

right.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

And they estimate that if you have an insecure style and you're with a secure

partner somebody who's able to create a secure functioning relationship with you.

You can actually shift towards secure attachment within a, I think

it is about a three year period, or two to three year period.

So again, there's, it's like, it may take a little bit of time,

but we are absolutely mutable.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like in, in some ways, you know, two or three years can sound like

a long time, but, but also not, right.

It's A couple years, with the right partner and the right relationship

can really make a difference.

Yeah.

That's pretty

hopeful.

It is.

And I especially want our, uh, anxiously attached listener to listen in on

that, to really register that because the anxious attachment experience

is one of, I'm never gonna get what I really need in relationship.

I'm always gonna get like some, but not enough.

Mm-hmm.

And so like, really see if you can let that land There is hope you can develop

the attachment style, the skills needed to really register love and invite

in love in the way that you crave.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, so we can absolutely shift towards secure attachment.

The other piece to know about this is we can shift towards insecure attach.

Right.

That is the, that is the

flip side of this for sure.

That is the flip side.

And the reason I think this is important to acknowledge is not to, uh, put some

anxiety in your space, dear listener, but to just acknowledge that it's,

it's good to be very discerning about who we are in relationship with.

Mm-hmm.

If there's somebody who is really going to give you the experience of inconsistency

or lack of connection in relationship, you know, that's going to have an impact.

Mm-hmm.

So just, you know, be mindful about who you are choosing relationship with,

it really puts in perspective staying with somebody cuz it's

like, oh, it's not terrible.

Right.

Like, well, it actually is having an impact on your

attachment system potentially.

Yes.

And if you're really looking for a long-term partnership, a healthy,

long-term partnership even though it may be uncomfortable in the short-term,

It's probably better for you in the long term to end that relationship so that

you're available and so that you're not building up that insecure attachment

style.

Right.

Yeah.

It makes me think of some of my clients who will develop casual relationships

with people even though they're really looking for something committed.

Mm.

And you know, it's like they're in a tough position cuz they're like, I

have these needs for touch and intimacy that aren't getting met and so I think

I'm gonna try to do it through this.

And it's like, yeah, it would be great if that had no consequences.

And some of the time it sets them up for the experience of just being left again.

Oof.

Right.

Oh, tough.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think it is good to just choose wisely when we already have a

tendency towards insecurity, really choose who we are relating to.

Mm-hmm.

All right, well ready for myth number three.

Ready?

Okay.

Uh, so nu number three is insecure.

Attachment is unhealthy or

bad.

Yes.

And you sort of hinted at this earlier, the sense of like, oh, insecure

attachment, bad secure attachment.

Good.

It's

kind of the very simplistic way gets communicated sometimes.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Or we interpret

it at least.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I, I think we should just sort of land in some, reality checking on this.

Yeah.

There are health risks associated with insecure attachment.

That is true.

Okay.

So there's like an increased risk for physical and mental health conditions

when we have an insecure attachment style because there's naturally more

cortisol and a adrenaline in the system, which has a lot of impacts.

Okay.

That said, sometimes when there's this message of insecure attachment

is, Unhealthy or bad, it goes beyond, there's health consequences.

It goes into kind of what you were describing earlier

of like almost like a moral,

Failing or something.

Failing like, you're bad.

Yeah.

Or being anxious or, or being avoidant

or like stay away from the avoidance or stay away from

the, the anxious or definitely stay away from the disorganized, right?

Mm-hmm.

Right.

You kind of get that sense from some of the articles that are out

there, and I think that's actually a pretty understandable thing

to hear in some of the material that's out there because insecure

attachment styles are based in shame.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So if you have an insecure style, there is an inherent sense of not good enough.

And so I think that that sometimes comes out in the material that's written about

those styles, maybe because they're written by people who are struggling

with that shame in those styles.

Right.

Okay.

So there can be this sense, you know, for those who are more anxious, there's

a sense of, I'm bad, I'm not good enough.

For the avoidant it can be kind of an underlying sense of I'm not good enough.

That often gets projected onto other people.

Mm-hmm.

And the disorganized can be one or both of those things in sort of larger amounts.

Larger quantities are more extreme.

Right.

The, the thing that I keep coming back to around this is that these

insecure attachment styles were adaptive.

I think it's, it's worth just pausing on that for a second.

You didn't develop an insecure attachment style for no reason.

Right.

Like what, like we were talking about in the first myth, right?

It's a result of things that happened in childhood as well as adult

relationships, trauma, other things that you've experienced in your life.

And so, you know, even if we think about as a kiddo, uh, if

for example, you didn't get much attunement from your parent, right?

They weren't available to you, they weren't emotionally present when you

needed support, when you needed care, when you needed comfort, uh, they weren't

available for that for whatever reason.

It was adaptive for you to develop an avoidant attachment style.

That's how part of how you survived, part of how you, uh, got through

that period of time in your life.

And so if you're listening to this podcast now, you're probably at

a point in your life that that particular set of responses and

reactions are no longer useful for you.

But it was right.

It was adaptive.

It got you to this point.

And so it's just now it's like, okay.

How do I now work with this so that I can form the kind of

relationship that I really want?

That is a secure functioning relationship, which I know we'll talk

a bit a little bit more about later.

And rather than seeing it as bad or wrong, uh, for you, it's just no longer

useful for you at this stage in life.

Yes.

I think that's put just perfectly the, one of the main tasks of developing more of

that secure attachment or the skills for building secure functioning relationship

is that self-love, self-compassion, seeing oneself as good enough.

And so see if you can get really savvy at noticing when you're

thinking about attachment styles or other people's attachment styles.

Notice if the tone starts to move into good, bad, right, wrong versus wow.

Isn't this resilient human amazing.

They're still here wanting to connect in the way that they can,

that even though they've probably gone through something difficult.

Hmm.

And same goes

for you.

I love the way that , you emphasized look at how they're here wanting to connect.

Mm-hmm.

That when we can shift from, well, I don't like this thing that they're doing

or what, that I'm doing for that matter either way, but I don't like this thing

that they're doing to, oh, they're here and they're looking to connect

even in spite of everything else that they've been through in their life.

That's so, so much sweeter.

Right?

It's like I get a little, like warm in my heart when you say that.

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah.

That's, that's great.

And it gives us this opening for how do we then learn to connect together

given our, our predispositions for particular attachment styles

that's a more collaborative.

Connection oriented approach versus like, I don't like this,

or I don't, you know, want that.

Right.

Well, and that's a secure attachment behavior.

Looking for what is good.

Looking for the connection.

Affirming the connection.

Yeah,

cool, cool, cool, cool.

Cool.

Cool.

Ready for number four?

I'm ready for number

four.

All right, so myth number four, you're just one style.

Yeah, that's

not true.

Yeah, so I always giggle because, you know, people come to me and,

and these days people are pretty, Educated about attachment styles and

often they'll come and say, I'm this style and I need help, you know,

with dating and, and relationships.

And then I have them do an assessment and every single person I give Diane,

Pooler, Heller's, Diane, excuse me, Diane, pool heller's assessment, everyone

comes back, all the styles, everyone.

And I just, I think that this is one of the biggest myths and one of, in fact the

most damaging ones about attachment style.

What do you see that's damaging about it?

I think that it stops us from seeing aspects of our

patterns ourself in relationship.

It stops insight that could be life changing.

Mm-hmm.

So let me give you an example.

We often work with people who have a tendency to pursue unavailable mates.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

And oftentimes they really desperately long for connection and feel that sense

we were talking about earlier of, I can't ever get what I really want.

Right.

And often part of what's happening is they're anxious, they're in that anxious

part of themselves pursuing someone who's probably in an avoidant state.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

And so they have this repeated experience of, I'm, I'm anxious and I'm, you

know, pursuing these unavailable people and I need to break that pattern.

And when they start to potentially date other types of people.

Where I see this myth coming in is they've identified so much with the

anxious side of things that they don't realize when other styles come up.

And in particular an avoidance side.

Mm-hmm.

And the avoidance side often comes up as nitpicking.

Mm-hmm.

And they experience it as just kind of being vaguely turned off by someone.

Maybe they have the sense of like, I didn't like how his hair was, or kind of

like, almost like mildly like repulsed.

Hmm.

And it, it could be that that person is genuine.

Not attractive to them.

And it could be that there's an avoidant style that they're

not aware of that is coming up.

You know, in avoidant attachment, a very classic, uh, behavior in

avoidant attachment is nitpicking, is criticizing things about the partner.

And the reason that happens is the avoidant has learned to

associate closeness with danger.

And so they have a lot of strategies to deactivate their attachment system that is

to, um, turn off the impulse to get close.

So it, it's a defensive strategy to keep them safe.

And so we've got these wonderful humans who have identified as anxious wanna be

in relationship, try to date different people who may be more available and

the avoidance side comes up, but they just write it off as there's no spark.

Mm.

Right.

Rather than really leaning in and discovering what connection there

may be there underneath whatever attachment pattern is getting

activated for them in that moment.

Right.

That for, for example, someone who is a little bit more available than the people

they, they have tended to go after in the past may bring out a different style

Absolutely.

In them.

Yeah.

And if we think about it, we generally have more than one caregiver.

Mm-hmm.

And there's a whole bunch of different kinds of pairings in the

world in terms of attachment styles.

That said, a lot of secure people find secure people.

Mm-hmm.

And guess what?

That leaves a lot of insecure people, finding insecure people.

Mm-hmm.

Which means that those who are insecure probably had parents

who were both insecure and maybe even had different styles.

Right.

And so it would make sense that you might have developed some different

strategies depending on which caregiver you were interacting with.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that might come out then in different situations with different people.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Uh, just a little anecdote.

When the book attached came out, uh, a while back, uh, it was as I mentioned,

sort of the first book that was in the pop psychology world about attachment styles.

And so a lot of people were reading it and every client I had that

Reddit came in and said, oh, I'm the 1% that's anxious of avoidant.

Mm-hmm.

1% that's not secure, not anxious, not avoidant, but a

mix of anxious and avoidant.

Right.

And I was like, I, I really don't believe that I am only attracting this supposed

1% of the population into my practice.

Right.

And, you know, that was also kind of, Dovetailing my experience with these

clients of like, they had a mixed style.

Right?

Right.

It wasn't that they were necessarily disorganized.

That's what anxious avoidant is.

They, they might have had some of that, but they just experienced both sides.

Both styles.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Fascinating.

So, yeah, I where I wanna go with all of this is just, I think it's

important to keep this in mind and I like to encourage people to, Look at attachment

theory, look at their own styles with a very open mind and with the stance of

everyone is every style, including me.

And just to learn about all the styles from that perspective.

Because chances are, even if you are largely in one style, most of the time,

there may be moments where you're not, and you are in relating to a lot of

people day by day, you are gonna come across all of those styles at some point.

And so get really good at detecting them in yourself and in others.

Mm-hmm.

Now, um, would you advise trying to figure out what other people's

attachment styles are and, interact with them differently or mm-hmm.

Is it more useful to look at your own style and.

Not try to assess other people's attachment style or

how would you approach that?

Yeah, this is a good question.

I think Josh is making a, is it like a nervous, excited face, excited face?

He just raised his eyebrows at me.

Uh, so I think that it is absolutely helpful to know your own style and,

uh, yes, I would say try to see if you can assess another person's style,

because treating someone or relating to somebody who's avoidant looks

different than relating to someone who's more in their anxious side of things.

Mm-hmm.

What I will say, and this actually connects to, I had a couple bonus myths.

Ooh.

One of which is so the, the myth I wanna bust is if you want to know

someone's attachment style, ask them.

I feel like this is a very common first date conversation actually for a lot of

people who really like attachment styles.

And here's the thing, some people don't know themselves very well and they've kind

of read a couple pop psychology articles and they kind of misclassify themselves,

or they have fallen prey to this very common myth of we're only one style, and

they pigeonhole themselves as one style.

That actually doesn't show up in your relationship.

Their entire, you know, entirely different style could show up because

of that thing we're talking about.

Attachment is inherently datic, meaning two people are present.

And so it's gonna shift depending on who those two people are.

So some people don't really understand their own style.

One other reason that we can't necessarily rely on what people say

about their attachment style is that in avoidant attachment, one of the sort

of defensive structures of that style is dissociation, which comes with poor

memory and sort of dismissing how early attachment impacted us as an adult.

And so somebody who's avoidant, there's a good chance they'll

say, I had a great childhood.

If they were working with a therapist and the therapist kind of dug into

that and asked them for memories of that great childhood, they probably

wouldn't be able to report much.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so the avoidant style in particular, they're, they're maybe

gonna present or as secure or say they're secure when they're not.

They're just dissociated from the difficulties right from

the early attachment history.

I think that's so fascinating.

And I think that piece around the lack of memory of detailed memories

from your childhood, I think that's a great potential little check for

yourself of like, oh, how am I, you know, I think maybe I'm secure, maybe.

And, and yet do I have a lot of detailed memories mm-hmm.

Interacting with my caregivers of, you know, happy moments,

emotional moments from my childhood.

And if not, that may be a good signal for you to examine, explore further,

uh, and see, oh, am I demonstrating some of these other avoidant attachment

style signs that I might wanna be aware of see how to work with.

So that I can be more successful in my relationships.

Yes, absolutely.

And what I love about what you just said is to if you notice the lack

of memory to check it with other avoidant attachment traits because

there is just the fact that some human beings have worse memory, right.

Me being one of them.

So,

um, so yes, I think triangulating with all of the other signs Yeah.

Is really important.

Yeah.

The other thought I had about, about this and I'm curious your take on this.

Mm-hmm.

I think my caution around inviting people to diagnose other people's

attachment style is that folks don't use it as like what we were talking

about earlier as like an assessment or a, or a judgment of people.

Yes.

Like, oh, you're avoidant, don't wanna deal with you.

Right.

To get, you know, and I say this, I think there's some nuance here.

Number one, one possible way to use it, as you're saying, is to understand and, and.

Learn how to interact with people better, to produce better

outcomes and more connection.

It's like, oh, okay.

If I know that you have an anxious tendency in our relationship, at least

I, there are certain things that I can do that will support you more

effectively than if I didn't know that.

Mm-hmm.

There's a real benefit there of using this for connection.

Yes.

And I, I do imagine that there are probably some times, and I'm curious your

take on this, that understanding some of the signs of different attachment styles

that a, a person you're dating might be exhibiting might be helpful to know.

Actually no, this isn't a relationship that is good for me to pursue right now.

Yes.

That knowing this, okay, they may be displaying some avoidant attachment

signs, for instance, and, uh, there's not enough, I don't know, awareness of that

on their end or like interest in working through that to meet me in connection.

That may be a signal, okay, we're actually not a good fit here and

this is something that I should pay

attention to.

Right.

Yeah.

This is a really great point.

So what I'm hearing you say is that we need to be careful not to use these

categories to preemptively cut people out.

Right.

And that in and of itself can be an insecure attachment behavior.

Right, right.

Oh, I've got a label for what they are.

Well, I don't have to take a risk on this one.

Done.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Next.

Yeah.

So again, I think it comes back to like, what's the tone of that?

Right?

What, you know internally, how am I holding it?

Does it feel like a, a way to push away or is it feel like

something that allows me to explore?

Mm-hmm.

More.

The other piece that you said is really important too, because I think that for a

lot of people who are chronically single, Who find themselves in repeating patterns

in dating that really aren't serving them.

Part of the work is to identify what's going on here.

Like who am I choosing, who's choosing me, and how does that not work?

A really classic one we've been talking a lot about today is the anxious

avoidant pairing, and that we, part of why we would talk about that is

it's really the most difficult one.

Mm-hmm.

Typically, and so for some people, when they're coming to a place of really

dating mindfully in an detachment informed way, the work is, oh, maybe they, let's

say they're on the avoidance side.

Often with people they choose, they say, oh, I keep choosing

people who are anxious and we just keep going on this rollercoaster.

Mm-hmm.

And so for my own good, I need to look for those who have a different style.

Mm-hmm.

That's very different from, oh, you're anxious,

ugh, you're right.

Clingy, ugh.

Got a very different vibe to it.

Very different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's more care and respect and not like putting people down for

a particular attachment style, but just seeing, oh, this is what I

need.

Right.

This comes back to that myth of insecure attachment is bad.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It, we need to hold onto, these are just adaptations and some

adaptations work better together.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

Ready for myth number five.

I, I am ready.

Oh, wait, wait, actually, yeah, we didn't really clarify.

Okay.

Oh yeah.

If people aren't good at telling you what their style is, what do you do?

Right.

You, you look for their, you look at their behaviors.

Yeah.

Okay.

You look for in attach, they refer to 'em as smoking guns.

Okay.

So if somebody, for example, describes a pattern of short relationships

that only get to a certain point, and then they maybe even say something

like, I don't know, I just hit a wall with it and, you know, had to go,

that might be a better indicator.

Or perhaps they say one thing and do another.

That's a sign of avoidant attachment

I love what you're saying about look at the behaviors

rather than what they're saying.

Right.

And that's gonna be a better indicator for you of what their attachment style is.

Yes, absolutely.

Brilliant.

Okay.

Myth number five.

Okay.

If you're insecurely attached, you can't build secure relationships or you can,

but only with a super secure person.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I think this was one of the things people did not like about the book attached.

Mm-hmm.

It kind of suggested if you're insecure, find someone secure.

Right.

And good luck if you don't.

And I know that's been frustrating for a lot of people, cuz a lot

of the people I work with are like, where are the secure people?

They're all in relationships.

Thank you.

This gives me no hope.

And I already had so little.

Um, yeah.

Yeah.

So I, you know, I suspect you Josh, actually have, uh, some thoughts on this.

I do.

I mean, fundamentally just the truth is, people with insecure

attachment styles build healthy, secure functioning relationships all the time.

Hmm.

And, uh, I think the key here is secure functioning relationship.

Mm-hmm.

This is a term that I absolutely love.

And I'm just gonna quote Stan here.

Mm-hmm.

Because Stan Hacken is the term that he, he coined, um, a secure

functioning relationship is an interpersonal system based on principles

of true mutuality, collaboration, justice, fairness, and sensitivity.

True mutuality.

I love that.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, to continue to quote him, you and your partner are

taking on the world together.

We protect each other, from the threats of the external, the outside world,

and from the internal each other.

Secure functioning relationship acknowledges and celebrates that you

and your partner each have a different mind history, drive and interests.

It's a relationship built on interdependence where you both accept the

burden and care of each other equally.

And the reason I love this is because it points to, uh, not what

attachment style we are, but how are we willing to relate to each other no

matter what attachment style we are.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

So it could be person who tends anxious and a person who tends avoidant or

whatever, two anxious folks, right?

But it's like, okay, can we align on what we wanna develop is a

secure functioning relationship.

And that's a series of patterns, behaviors orientations, principles,

agreements that we make with each other about how we're going to relate

you know, it's about both of us.

It's about mutuality, as Stan talks about, about collaboration, that

we're gonna protect each other.

From the outside world and from ourselves, right?

Mm-hmm.

From the crappy little things that we can do sometimes.

And so this, I feel like this is the holy gray out right here.

Mm.

This is like, if you get nothing out else out of this podcast, it's

a secure functioning relationship.

Is it?

It's it, and it's possible.

And it's possible.

And you have to be on the same page about it.

Yeah.

Mutuality, right?

Collaboration.

I was listening to a book on attachment and psychotherapy earlier today,

and they were talking about how human beings, like all other land

mammals don't, uh, associate safety with a place, like a place that

they can run to, but with a being.

Mm.

Right.

Isn't that so beautiful?

That's great.

Love that.

So I think that it's just so important, regardless of your style, that you and

your partner are in agreement that you're going to be one another's safe place.

Mm-hmm.

That's so beautiful.

And with that as the foundation, you can handle just about anything that comes up.

Right.

It gives you a, a place for the two of you to aim for, to handle whatever

arguments, disagreements, ruptures painful things that come up in the relationship.

It's like, okay, if what we're aiming for is this, that we're each other's

safe place, that we've got each other's back, no matter what, what do

we then need to do to make that true?

Mm-hmm.

What are the, the skills we might need to develop together?

Communication skills, whatever it might be, what are the habits, the ways

of being with each other's, support that we might get, you know, from

friends, family, apple's therapist, individual, you know, whatever it

might be, so that we can do that.

if I were advising people looking for a relationship, what should

you look for in a partner?

Someone who is willing to build, secure, functioning relationship with you?

Yes.

That should be like top of your list.

Yes.

Cuz with that you can do so much.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Beautifully put,

I think this one segues pretty naturally into our, our sixth myth which is, in

order to build a secure relationship, you have to develop secure attachment first.

Yeah.

Which I don't know about you, but Sounds like a lot of work to me.

Give us some hope, Jessica.

Yeah.

I mean, I think this one, like most things in life is both and right.

We, to get to that place of yummy, satisfying relationship, we need

to build our own internal resources and also heal in relationship.

All that said, we come into this world dependent on other human beings.

First and foremost.

We do not develop the capacity to self-soothe unless we've

been in relationship with a parent or a caregiver who can.

Soothes us first.

Mm-hmm.

So I like to think of it as like, yeah, it'd be nice if we could

develop secure attachment on our own before entering relationship.

And like biologically, that's actually not the order it goes in.

Mm-hmm.

So can you say yes to relationship even if it's not jumping into a partnership?

So can you be in relationship with friends, a therapist, loving others

as a way of developing secure attachment in addition to developing

your capacity to self-soothe?

All of that is going to set you up even if you don't have a partner

to do the attachment healing with.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

The other resource I wanted to, to drop in here, uh, is Stan Takin's 10 Commandments

for a secure functioning relationship.

Yes.

I think this is, this is delightful and it gives you a, a blueprint for what

does it look like to function in a.

Functioning relationship together.

Mm-hmm.

What are the things that will have to be true Yes.

For that to really work.

And you may find in your own relationship, you express them a little

bit differently or put different words to them that work for the two of you.

But I think this is a wonderful place to start, uh, as what does it look like?

What are some agreements that we make together about how we are with each other.

Yes.

We'll link to those in the

show notes.

You and I took that document Stans 10 Commandments and made our own at the

beginning of our relationship and provided such a beautiful mantra to come back to,

to check and make sure, are we doing what we said we wanted to do, to create this

sense of we are each other's safe place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's been so sweet.

I've, uh, I've treasured that document.

Yeah.

Good.

Well, time for number seven.

Time for number seven.

All right.

Attachment theory explains everything.

Everything, everything, everything is attachment.

Oh.

Which I'm gonna guess, Jessica, you might have some nuance to

contribute for us around this.

I mean, as somebody who's very attachment oriented, it's, it's

easy for me to slip into feeling like attachment explains everything.

And that was definitely my experience when I first came

upon it 10 years ago or whatever.

It definitely felt like this explains,

oh my God, Uhhuh,

uh, you know, I just put words to like the weird things

people do in relationships.

Mm-hmm.

Myself included.

Mm-hmm.

And like, oh, it's, it's all actually kind of predictable.

Right.

Yeah.

That's part of the thing about these styles is these are.

Predictable biological reactions.

Mm-hmm.

To certain inputs.

Right.

That's why they're styles, that's why people fall into categories because our

systems protect in very predictable ways.

Mm-hmm.

So all of that is to say I think it's easy to, uh, you know, if you're a

hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If, if attachment theory really captures you, that's pretty easy to fall into.

And there are so many other things at play outside of attachment, right?

There is culture and gender and mental health issues and pheromones and trauma,

you know, you know, incompatibility between partners, sexual orientation,

I mean, we could go on and on.

Right?

Processing styles.

Processing styles.

Thinking styles.

That's right.

Right.

Yeah.

So I think that this is important.

This, you know, busting this myth is important because if we just

think everything's attachment, we.

We miss out on, uh, putting our finger on other things that

might be really illuminating.

Um, let me give you an example.

So let's imagine that you and your partner are struggling to stay

connected and you find that your partner's communication is inconsistent.

And this brings up a lot of your anxious attachment.

And so you do some attachment oriented therapy and you kinda

look at like, oh, they must have maybe a more avoidance style, maybe

really work really hard on that.

And then somewhere down the line, turns out they get diagnosed with adhd.

Hmm.

Something that has gone under the radar for many years cuz they're, they've got

a lot of smarts and kind of have learned how to mask their lack of attention.

And suddenly what looked like avoidant attachment is actually adhd.

And, and the treatment is so different, right?

So different.

Right.

And maybe they simply need some support through medicine and psychotherapy.

Um, and that allows them to show up more consistently.

So, you know, enjoy the attachment theory and how it explains so

many things and don't let it stop you from looking at other pieces.

That's brilliant.

I have nothing else to add.

Well, I have a bonus myth.

We already went over one of them.

Bonus myth.

Bonus myth.

So singing today.

I love it.

Oh, thank you for your patience.

Dear listener.

So bonus myth, men are avoidantly attached.

Women are anxiously attached.

Ooh.

Oh yeah.

I was thinking about this one earlier.

I was like, we should talk about that.

And then I forgot about it, so I'm glad you brought it

up.

Yeah, yeah.

Yep.

I think that's super stereotypical.

I think it's in a lot of romcoms.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and

it falls into this misogynistic stereotypes Yes.

As well.

Like absolutely.

Women are clingy.

Mm-hmm.

And men are the strong silent ones.

Mm-hmm.

Yada, yada, yada.

Women are hysterical.

Hyster

Hall.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes.

So it's not true.

Y'all, uh, myth busted.

Myth busted.

As many men and women are anxiously attached as are avoidantly attached.

It's, it's evenly split, basically.

So,

That's that.

It just, yeah.

Nothing more to say.

I do think that's a really important one because I've worked with

a lot of men who have an anxious style.

Mm-hmm.

And they feel ashamed of that.

Right.

Because it doesn't match the, like James Bond, kind of a indifferent

ladies man sort of thing.

Mm-hmm.

And similarly, women who have a more avoidance style, they, you know,

may not even really, oftentimes they don't really even know their style.

They haven't really looked too deep into it.

I, I think in part because of the avoidance and in part because

this, it didn't resonate based on their stereotypical assumptions.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Do you think avoidant people tend to look less at attachment style stuff?

I have noticed that people who lean avoidant.

Do feel more criticized by it, I think.

Yeah.

Which, you know, it's interesting, right?

I think that there may be a couple pieces there.

Those who are avoidant, the, the, one of the underlying core beliefs is, I'm

not enough or I'm a disappointment.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think it might activate some of that when they see literature about

avoidance and, um, how it impacts others.

So it may activate the underlying shame.

And then why would they wanna look at that?

It's kind of like, you know, when, when we're more avoidant, one of the

ways that gets developed is we have a parent who's overly critical, right?

Yeah.

Right.

It's not that there's no contact in that case, it's that the contact is

very unsatisfying because the parent just keeps coming in with criticism.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think for that reason, Yeah.

Those of us who have more of an avoidance style can sometimes

experience attachment literature as critical as the critical parent.

Right,

right.

And activates that attachment system.

Yes.

Yeah.

And

very understandably.

Yeah.

And I think that, again, I wanna come back to like who's writing

all this material about attachment?

Probably people with a mixed attachment

style, right?

It's like those of us who need to understand this are the ones who

have the insecure attachment styles to work with the folks who secure

function, secure attachment style oriented, like yeah, I'm good.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think it's always possible that some of these

articles do carry a little bit of that kind of like good guy, bad

guy feeling, because that's part of the insecure attachment experience.

There are good guys and there are bad guys.

Right.

Yeah, that's a great point.

You're a great point.

Oh, well thanks.

Uh,

well, Any other, uh, random questions about attachment, Josh?

Yeah.

Let's

see.

What's your number one, uh, tip for people who want to develop secure attachment

who aren't yet in a relationship?

My number one tip for people who want to, you said,

develop secure attachment but are not yet in a relationship mm-hmm.

Is to build relationships with, uh, emotionally available.

Others outside of romantic relationships re get really good at

identifying people who are kind, warm, consistent, expressive, and playful.

Boom,

boom, kind, warm, consistent, expressive and playful.

You got it.

I love that.

Well, I think we dropped some attachment knowledge.

Should we pick it up?

I don't wanna leave the studio dirty, like how

you call it?

Our studio.

It's our kitchen table.

Yep.

We dropped some attachment knowledge and we're gonna leave it there.

We're gonna leave it there.

Uh, like wildflower seeds that we've sprinkled on the ground that

will bloom into wonderful flowers.

Yes.

We should stop to get any still here.

All right.

Well, we appreciate you all for listening.

Thank you for being with us, and as always, you can find the show notes

for this episode with links to all the resources that we mentioned.

At relationship center.com/podcast.

And if you like this show, uh, you can leave us a rating

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We so appreciate it.

And if you have a question that you'd like us to answer on a

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And until next time, we love

you too.

Bye.

This is

a secure attachment song.

It is just like, And it's a attachment song for relationship bliss.

That was amazing.

We're not including that.

Yes, I