In this episode, Tina Parker, founder of Lead Outside the Lines, shares her journey through burnout and personal challenges, leading to a redefinition of success. Learn her “Scale Up Framework," which is all about aligning your inner structure—your thoughts, feelings, and beliefs—to drive sustainable actions and success. Tina shares how leadership begins from within, the criticality of brain health, and the transformative power of generative questions. Together with Patty, they emphasize the necessity of balancing personal and professional life, adopting an adaptive mindset, and prioritizing self-care. Tina offers insights for high achievers on navigating change, uncovering root issues, and aligning actions with core values. If you’re aiming to make a profound and lasting impact in their personal and professional lives, this episode is for you!

Key Takeaways:

• Lead yourself effectively before leading others, focusing on transformational mindset and brain health.
• Redefine success to align with personal fulfillment, not just external achievements.
• Embrace authentic leadership to foster a thriving, engaged team culture.
• Implement a 5-step framework to align actions with one’s natural internal wiring and values for sustainable success.
• The leadership superpower of asking to shape meaningful outcomes rather than just goals.
• Ask generative questions to open possibilities, new perspectives and pathways.

About our Guest: 

Tina Parker, founder of Lead Outside the Lines, brings a unique heart-centered, science-backed approach to leadership success by design, not by default. With a distinguished career as a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, former C-Level Executive, and Business Owner, she understands the resilience needed to lead with courage and authenticity in a rapidly evolving world. Tina has been a trusted guide for hundreds of visionary change-makers, empowering them to break free from stagnation, unlock possibilities, and execute their vision with clarity, courage, and confidence. She walks the talk as a TEDx Speaker and Great American Speak-Off Semi-Finalist with a Master’s. in Leadership and Management, and certifications in Neuroencoding, Brain Health, Transformational Mindset Facilitation, Human-Centered Design, DISC Behavioral Consulting, and Executive Leadership.

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Marketing Media & Money Podcast. I'm excited today because we're going to talk about leadership. But specifically, we're going to talk about leading Outside the Lines. Ooh, that doesn't that just make you feel all excited because I love that topic. Right? You know, because I don't like doing anything inside. So, outside newlines works for me. So let me tell you a little bit about our guest today. So Tina Parker is the founder of lead Outside the Lines, she brings a unique heart centered science backed approach to leadership success by design, not by default. With a distinguished career as a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, co creator of the Air Force's innovation, catalyst F works recognized by Fast Company as a world best in 2020, a former C level executive and business owner, she understands the resilience needed to land to lead with courage and authenticity in a rapidly evolving world. Tina has been a trusted guide for hundreds of visionary changemakers, empowering them to break free from stagnation, unlock possibilities and execute their vision with clarity, courage and confidence. She walks the talk as a TEDx speaker and the great American speak off semi finalists with a master's in leadership and management certifications in neuro encoding, brain health, transformational mindset, facilitation, human centered design, disc, behavioral consulting, and executive leadership. So she definitely knows how to walk her talk. And she definitely knows how to lead outside the lines. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So Tina, thank you so much for being here with me.

Thank you, Patti, for having me on. I'm really excited for this conversation with you.

I'm really excited to because I really like to, I really want to deep into this. You know, I've known you for a few years now. We met when we were both going to a mastermind. And literally we roomed together actually met before that, but online, but then we actually went to this mastermind and we roomed together and the rest they say is history, right? So now, you know, like, literally, I think you're one of my closest friends you write for my magazine, and pretty much are the go to person for anytime I think that there's anything that has to do with leadership. You're like on the shortlist, always. And I love that you always lean in and say yes, so thank you so much for that. There's so I appreciate not to say yes to you, Patti. I love that. So let's kind of dive right in. So I have to tell you, you shared a story with me once about how like, you just got done sharing, like all these massive, amazing accomplishments, right? But we all know that with accomplishments, you know, there's always a price to pay. Right? You know, there's, especially if, you know, we can get burned out we there's a lot of things that can go on, right? And so can you share with us the story about how you, you know, for you, it was like I checked all the boxes. But then what?

Right, exactly? Well, and I think a lot of us that are we're high achievers, we have big goals, big dreams, we want to make a big impact in the world. We just go Go, go go go, right, we have this, this inner motor that just keeps us going. And for me, that's what it was, I was so focused on creating value, wherever I was doing all the things, checking all the boxes, to work my way up the ladder, right to bring a lot of value and impact wherever I was. But what happened for me is I was doing all the things, right. And I think a lot of your readers can probably attest to that for their own lives, right? We wear so many hats in life like Mom, wife, mother, you know, mom, wife, business owner, executive. And for me, I was doing military at the same time. Right. So I was working for Homeland Security as a director of communication. I was a director of current operations for my Military Reserve Air Force Reserve Component, I was building a business with my now ex husband. So there's part of this and there's part of the story there. Right, and just doing all the things getting my master's degree, like checking all the boxes that were, quote, unquote, supposed to check to be successful. And I thought I was doing all the things I was supposed to do until life kind of has a way of smacking you upside the head when you're out of alignment with where you're supposed to be. And for me, what that looked like was a four year period where the big four DS like the Big Four stressors, we call them the big boardies happened in four years. death, divorce, debt, and disease all in four years. So in the morning, yeah, I mean on the outside Everything's great. But on the inside, clearly my personal life and my health was falling apart. And I remember actually sitting in my car, driving to work one day, after all this had happened. And I just sat there and I couldn't get out. I couldn't get out car. I just I felt stuck right there in my seat. And I said, What is going on here? I'm doing all the things I think I'm supposed to do. What's happening in my life? And what was happening for me what I came to understand, after about a decade of going deep into human transformation, and leadership, and what is it that drives us? I was out of alignment with what was really important for me. And while I thought I was showing up as a good leader, for my people at work, they watch what we do more than they listen to what we say. Right? So I have kids. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's like, it's like this. Yep. We're like, do as I say, not, as I do know, if you could win at 6am. You don't leave till 6pm. But you're trying to tell them to have a good life and outgoing to your life and don't burn yourself out. They're like, what are you doing? Right? And so, for me, that's, that's what it was. And I was like, Okay, I get to define my own definition of success. Not trying to check the boxes of everyone else's definition that I think I'm supposed to be checking, because that is what was causing the burnout for me.

That's a lot, right. You know, I mean, going through, like, for some people just going through one of those things, or two of those things, but all four of those things. Wow, that that was kind of a slap you up beside the faces and something's got to change, right?

It is. And for high achievers, we can sometimes need a little bit more slap and upside the head. Because we're kind of stubborn, right? We're focused, we're driven. But for me, when the first thing was, I lost my son to stillbirth. And the week before that happened, I had been sick, I had a fever, I was feeling well, but oh, gotta be at work, gotta push through. And I don't blame myself, things happen. At the same time, I got to be responsible for, hey, I kind of need to pay attention to my own well being. Right. And then I was pregnant right away with my daughter. So little bit little bit anxiety going on during that that time, six months after I gave birth to her cancer. And I thought why in the world, and the doctors actually shared with me and I hope that your listeners will take this to heart for themselves, is they said, Look, we don't usually find this particular type of tumor in this location. And it usually will kill you within 10 years. So for you had not come in and had the screening done, which almost didn't, right, because there's so much work already. It was like, Oh, I can't can't miss my work. They said if you had not come in, you'd be dead in 10 years. So that was a big wake up call. And after trying to get all that together, the divorce happened. I said, okay, it is time, it is time to do this differently. Because I wanted it all right. And I think all of us do. We want it all professionally, we want it all personally and there is a way I just was going about it all the wrong way. So that is when I just surrendered. I said, Okay, I am going to learn from the experts in the field of transformational mindset, neuro encoding, leadership, brain health, human transformation. How do we do this and still achieve success personally, in leadership and lead ourselves well, in our own lives at the same time?

You know, I think that's really important too, because sometimes it just leads to a meltdown. Right? You know, and I don't know about you, but I have you had times where I would tell my husband, I would say, babe, I am so busy right now that I literally don't have time today to go to the bathroom or eat. Like, like, I'll have to make a choice. My friends. You know what I mean? And I would get on the phone with clients say, Hey, can you hold on one second? Or whatever, right? Because I couldn't schedule my time better. But you know what, as CEOs, we own our time, we own our schedule, we own our calendar, right? Otherwise, we're not a CEO. We're a firefighter, right, and we're just putting out fires. And I feel like when you shared the story with me when we became friends, like I feel like it's so easy to resonate with that story now to different degrees for people right you know, I mean, different degrees but sometimes I think especially women I think we feel sometimes like we should be able to do it all right, you know we should be able to do at all, Mike we're supposed to balance these things. And notice that nowhere in their in your story of those things was their time To be us, right? Nowhere in there was their time to be like us. Right? You know, we're the mom and the wife and, and the friend and the business owner and the whatever, but nowhere in there. Did you say that if you do those things, right, that you also can have time for yourself too. Because really kind of like the mask, right? You know, in the on the plane, you have to take care of yourself first before you can serve others, right. So I feel like really, that is what's so important. And I know that when you and I had that discussion, and we were sharing, I remember, we stayed up so late that night, you were sharing with me what inspired you to develop the scale up framework. And you know, I just love the name. But I feel like before I actually asked you to go there, and I do want to, I feel like when you were telling us, these are the things you did, I think people could choose to just say, You know what, I'm just burnt out, I just want to do something else, maybe I'll go get a job, or whatever the case may be, and then they don't feel fulfilled, because they do want those things. But sometimes the price is high, if you don't have the right balance, and if you don't go about it the right way. Right. So I feel like when you shared with me how this actually inspired you to develop this scale up framework, right? And how did your background influences creation? Now you just shared that whole story. But how did you go from that story? You'd started doing all this? You know, work, right? You know, like getting, you know, certified at all these things and learning that but still, once you did that, while you were doing all that you had to figure out what where's it gonna go? What am I going to create? How do I want that to change? And? And would you say so I guess it's gonna be a two part question. So that's the second part. The first part question, I feel is in the beginning, I feel like when I create too, I first do it for me, like, I'm like, oh, man, something has to change, like, I need to do it. And then all of a sudden, you're like, wow, like, if this works for me, like, what would happen if I like served others and taught it to other people, and, and then kind of like, we get, it's our passion, and then it becomes our mission. And then it becomes, like, we put our values all in there. And then it aligns with what our mission is, and all, all those beautiful things all happen. So I guess that's what I really kind of want to know, like, through all that. You had to make those changes for yourself. And then when you get to the other side, now you're inspired to create this framework. So yeah, kind of tell us like, how did that how did that all happen? And then let's kind of dive into the, into the framework, because I gotta tell you, I love that you have this scale up framework, and it only has five steps, right? Because laughter right? Because it sounds like there should be like 25 things, right? You know, and, and that you got to do all this work. And it's gonna take you years, and you've managed to do all of that work, and then be able to create it in a framework where there's only five steps, which I think is such a beautiful thing. So let's talk about that.

Yes, I'd love to because you're right, you have we got to do it for ourselves first, right. And that's one of the biggest things about this work is it's not theoretical. These are things that I've applied in my own life and my clients apply in their life, like, there's no theory of like, go try and do this thing. Maybe it'll work. No. Because for me, what I realized in that moment, I said, Okay, there's got to be a better way. What is that thing, like you said, there's so many things that we can do. And I was tired of the band aid approach. I was tired of the Guru's are like, go do this one thing, it's gonna change your life, and you try to do the thing. But it's not aligned with how I function. It's not aligned with what's important for me. And, like, so it's really hard for us to take steps and actions that are not aligned with who we are, how we are, right, how we are in the world, what's important for us how we're wired. And that was the biggest missing piece that I found, because I met with a whole lot of leaders, I've worked with flag officers, four star generals, all the way down to the person just starting out their career, right. So every level of ownership. And what I found for myself and for the people that I've worked with, and and talked with is the higher up you get in your career, the more pressure you feel to perform to show up, right? And when that's the case, I saw so many people struggling with the same things I was struggling with putting aside how they really function, their authentic selves, what was really important for them, so they can show up in this box that they think they're supposed to be showing up as, and that's what's going to get them to success. No, what it actually does is it burns you out completely. And one of the things that I really love and we'll get into the framework about scale up, is because it's different. Because it starts with how you are uniquely wired. Right? A lot of these leadership programs are like, go do these things, change your actions, change your behaviors, you get different results. Yes, that's true. However, that's incomplete. If all you do is focus on changing the actions before you understand how you're wired, what drives you, you are missing the mark, right? It's like all the times, January 1, when we say up, this is the year I'm gonna go run every single morning. But you see yourself as a runner, you're not wired for running, but you think that's what you're supposed to do? How long do you stay? How long does that resolution last? Like two days? Hey, and so they'll feel the whole point of scale up is scaling up every area of your life, from the inside out? We try to look at it from the outside in all these things I think I'm supposed to do should do. Right? We should all over ourselves. And that is not a good look for anybody. So anytime we're like, I shouldn't be doing that. No, we got to stop and go, How am i What's my structure, that's the s in scale up, right, my internal structure, the stories and telling myself the structure of how I'm wired. And then we have to get clear on what's really important for us. And clarity is that second step, clarity of our vision, clarity of our identity. Because a lot of times what happens is if we don't identify as a certain person, a certain way of being, but we're trying to force ourselves into that square, not going to happen, right? And that's where the burnout happens. We think it's because we have so many things on our plate and so much going on. It's not, it's because we are not clear on who we are. And we're not in alignment, which is the A and scale with how we are naturally wired and how we want to show up, and what's important to us, right? And then the last two, and then we can go on is leadership is the L in scale, but it's it's a different, it's inner leadership, a lot of leadership, and rightfully so talks about leading others, but leadership is really influence and we have to start with ourselves. So in scale up, we talk about how can we shift from a reactive state, which is our natural default, right to creative states. And then the E is engagement engagement. Because if our visions big enough, which for a lot of us it is we can't do it by ourselves. So we have to communicate our value and engage people around us to help us elevate to the next level.

I love that. And part of the scale up framework is creating your authentic alignment code. Right. So what is what is that? And how does it affect our ability to move forward? faster

Oh, my gosh. So authentic alignment code is everything. It basically is when we do the s&c we are pulling your psychology, your thoughts, feelings and beliefs, mindset, right, your values, your purpose, your vision, all of these things together to understand how are you uniquely wired. And what's important for you. By pulling all of these things together, we create your alignment code, it becomes your Northstar that every time you're making a decision, right, you know, is that aligned for me? If yes, great. Go in that direction. If no, then you have a decision. Okay? Is it if it's out of alignment, is that something that I really want to do, or not understanding that when something is not in alignment for us, it takes a lot of energy for us to show up and perform. Right. And so that's where a lot of the burnout comes in, is we're trying to show up in a way that is not aligned with who we are and how we are. And it takes a lot of energy and burns us out. The other part about the alignment code is that the more aligned we are with our authentic self, the more creative we are, the more adaptable we are, the more resilient we are. And in this world that is changing faster than most of us can keep up with. That is so important. It's not about what's outside of us. It's about tapping into our personal Northstar and leading and living from that aligned place.

I love that so much because I feel like it's really important and actually you don't know yet because it magazines on out but alignment and authenticity is part of my article this, this this can't wait to read it a vase about that but in a in a little bit different way than your than your teaching like you really talk about like leadership. And mine is really about algorithms versus authenticity and alignment. So anyway, that was a little sneak peek. But what would you say to people who think that the concept of alignment and authenticity or like, you know, I feel like sometimes we were like, Oh, that is so we will not that there's anything wrong with we will I'm not, you know, like, you know, capping on woowoo. But I know that sometimes people say, Oh, that's just woowoo. And that's too soft for business. Right? You know, and I've heard both of those things, right, you know, which kind of

I feel either said something about somebody, or maybe they don't really understand it. Right. You know, because I know that in the beginning, for me, I used to feel like that about woowoo. Like, I used to, like, Oh, that's right, you know, and I kind of really wasn't on the woowoo train. And like, I just was like, No, and I've kind of really wasn't that really there. And it took me a while for me to really, really understand that digging deep and, and stuff, what it meant to me, right, you know, we, again, just like alignment, you get to decide what aligns with you. And even if that's Whoo, you know, and stuff, though, but too soft. I hear that, you know, Oh, that's too soft for business, right? Where would you say? What would you say to people who would say that?

I've heard it quite a few times and coming from a military background, right? 23 years in the Air Force? Yeah. Anytime you bring up these soft skills, you kind of get a little bit of a resistance. What I will say is we've proven time and time again, through even our work with F works, the Air Force innovation catalyst, what set us apart and made us made it so successful, that Fast Company recognized us as a world best, like, we beat Amazon in 2020, when it came to best workplaces for innovators. Wow. And I think it makes sense when you look at like, we're government, right? But what it was, is that we created a space for all of us to bring our authentic gifts to the table, we were charged with doing things differently, thinking outside the box, right, looking beyond the horizon to create solutions for what's needed, not just fix problems of what already happened, right? And so how many companies are out there that need to be looking ahead and seeking the solutions for what's coming? Because of everything that's changing? It was the authenticity of each one of us Creek producing, hey, here's my crazy idea. What do you think about it? Right, but creating a space where that was accepted, right? Where we didn't hold back and go, Oh, someone's gonna think that I'm, that sounds ridiculous. They're gonna judge me, right. And so what I want to share with folks is when we create the space for each one of us to show up authentically, we are actually smarter, we come up with better ideas, we have better perspectives, the collective the collective wisdom of the crowd together, right? It's only through that authenticity, that that can happen. Otherwise, you get people who are trying to keep themselves in this tiny little box because they don't want to be judged. Right? They don't want to sound crazy. They don't want to be separate from everybody else. And you don't get great ideas. Right? It's what happened with Kodak. It's what happened with blockbuster, like, do you want to be Netflix? Or do you want to be blockbuster? You get to choose. And Aqua TriCity and aligning with values to bring in like valued people. All of that is what leads to things like what happened with us at AF works. And if you look at conscious capitalism companies, the companies that outperform s&p 500 companies by 1,000% that is one of the things that's most impactful for them. Is being authentic, courageous or conscious leadership. Right showing up consciously, authentically aligned.

So just look at the numbers.

Wow, numbers don't lie. Numbers don't lines. Numbers don't lie. So many leaders I feel struggle to balance, you know, professional success with personal well being and fulfillment. So what specific strategies does scale up offer to help individuals prioritize self care while they're pursuing their ambitious and alignment goals?

Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. Because there I mean, there's so many things that we can do. But within scale, one of the biggest things that we're trying to help our folks do and I love seeing this pop with our clients when they get it is your personal definition of success. Right? We we are all imprinted and conditioned just from life with a meaning of what it means to be successful. And whenever I'm working with clients, and I ask them, Hey, how do you know when you're successful? They give me the standard. I got the money in the bank that 2.5 Kids the title, the white picket fence, the house like all this stuff, right? External stuff. And then the question of, is that fulfilling for you? Most of the time, it's not there. Like, no, it's Yeah, I got the stuff. But there's something missing. There's something else here for me, right? And they feel a pull to another level of contribution, but they're like, I'm already doing so many things like there's no way I can add more to my plate and look at all these things that I've already accomplished. And it's like, okay, yes, you've accomplished those things. But whose box were you checking? Whose meaning of success? Were you checking? Was it yours, and most of the time, it's not. And so when we pull the framework together, it gives them each their own individual definition of success. Again, it's part of that alignment code, where they can consistently go, Okay, I am moving closer to my definition of success. And that fulfillment is there, that fulfillment generates energy, vitality, right? It keeps the burnout at bay. And it helps you to align again, with your authentic path. Because that fulfillment will energize you, if you're trying to check the box of someone else's success. It's this downward spiral of reactivity and unfulfillment.

I love that. So we were just talking about, like, how people have different definitions of success. And that is so true, right. And I think we evolve all the time. And I know that over time, what I would consider success when I was younger was to do more. Now, as I've gotten older, I find success is really that I'm able to do less. I'm used to my day. So my definition of success is change. But I know that you have kind of a a bit of a different take on leadership than the standard definition. And I know you talked a little bit about how it is inward. But I mean, the lead outside the lines, like I mean, like I love that hole. I mean, like just what it makes you think of when you just hear that. So can you share a little bit about how you see it differently. But why do you see it differently? Because that's the heart of it, right? Yeah, absolutely.

And I see leadership differently than most. Because I look at it from an inside out perspective. We have to lead ourselves well, before we can truly lead others well, right? We're really good. A lot of us are really good at putting the mask on, and acting like Oh, I got it all together. It's all good. And we think that we're leading other people. We're not, we're not we're leading them down a path of burnout, just like we're leading ourselves. Right. And so one of the things that I really love about this journey that I've been on is the brain health and the neuro encoding and transformational mindset. Like the reason I went deep into those is because I wanted to understand, how do we shift from this, like I said, reactive downward spiral that can happen when we are on the hamster wheel and trying to check all the boxes and chasing someone else's definition of success, right, one of my clients calls it chasing the cookie, and I got the cookie, but it's the wrong cookie. The last like I'm totally unfulfilled, I gotta chase the next cookie. Right? But what's happening inside of us when we're doing that is an I can show you we don't have time to show everything but there's actual neuroscience behind this. When we are in a what we call a reactive state, anything that's fear based worried stress, overwhelm, all of those, those types of emotions, parts of our brain actually shuts down. So we are starting I know it's crazy. And I love this because I'm certified with Dr. Daniel Amon, who is the leading neuro psychiatrist in the world, we've got access to hundreds of 1000s of brain SPECT scans to see what's happening in people's brains. And I even brought my daughter and I've had my daughter has had her brain scanned because she was having some impulsivity issues. And after so much of the behavior correction on the outside, it was still hard for her to control her emotions, right emotional regulation. And so we actually took her in to one of Dr. Amiens clinics, which is how to get started on this to see what was happening in her brain. Right and when we could see of this is how her brain is functioning. For her. It was like all doors open all the time. So it was really hard for her to narrow in and focus and close down things that were making her feel overwhelmed. When we understood what was happening. We could help her with some behavior modification that was attuned for her. Right counting, breathing in alignment HeartMath in alignment for her. Exactly, exactly. And so understanding what's happening in our brain When we're in certain states, we learn how to shift into creative states like gratitude, compassion, courage, joy, right? These states actually light up parts of your brain that help you make better decisions that help you have access to information you already know, you have better motor coordination, right? When your brain is shut down, when parts of your brain are shut down in these other reactive states, you go into a state of not being able to remember things, you have memory problems, dark mood, like things happen. It's not just because you feel bad or you feel good. It's because your brain is functioning better when you're in a creative state. Alright, but how many of us spend hours a day in overwhelm? fear, worry, stress, right, we're already starting behind the power curve, we're like a mile behind the finish line trying to catch up before the race starts. But while we learn how to shift, that's where true leadership comes in. Because we get better ideas. We are in a creative upward spiral that's energizing, and it's generative. So it's life giving, we get to show up as better leaders from the inside and it radiates out to everything we do. And everyone we come in contact with.

So beautiful. I mean, like, who doesn't want that? Right? I mean, that is just a beautiful thing. Who would not write that? want that? So how does the framework or scale up framework differ from other personal or professional development programs, and get sustainable results like this? Listen to what you're saying just sounds phenomenal, right? But we do want sustainable results. So what is different about it? Then say other personal or professional development programs?

Yeah, sustainable results is the key, right? Because I said I was tired of the band aid approach, I wanted something that would work no matter what I was doing. And so that's why we start with your internal structure, right? Because here's what actually happens, we think that our actions create results. Right? And I said this before they do. But what happens before that, right? What happens before you take an action, your thoughts, your feelings, and your beliefs, which is your psychology, those drive the actions that we take or don't take? Right? It depends on how what we are, what we believe and what we believe about certain things. That's our mindset. So I'll share with you with one of my clients was, he's a very successful venture capitalist. And he wanted to start a new holding company based on some expertise that he had, that's very different than the normal expertise in the VC world. And so we're talking about this. And he's telling me all the wonderful things that could come about by starting this new company and getting people involved in deep Tech because he really understood it. And I'm like, a great, like, I'm sold, what's the deal? And he goes, Well, I'm just not doing what I know how to do this, but I'm not doing it. I'm feeling stuck. And so I said, Okay, what is it that you not doing? And he goes, I am not talking about this? So when he goes, I don't like talking about myself? How many of us feel that way? Right? We don't like to talk about ourselves. And so I asked him this question. And I hope that your readers will listen on this. So lean in, if you've tuned out for a second lean in, because this question is important. I asked him, What do you believe about people who talk about themselves? He goes up, they're total jerks. Like, didn't skip a beat at all. I'm like, Okay, are you a jerk? He's like, No, and he's not. He's just a super great guy. I was like, so if you believe that people who talk about themselves are jerks. And you think going out and telling people about your expertise? Is you talking about yourself? What does that make you? In your own mind? Right? And he sat there for a second, just like stunned like, what? You're right, I'm not doing this, because I don't want to be seen as a jerk. I'm like this belief that you hold about people that talk about themselves and the meaning that you attribute to if you share your expertise. That's the only reason you're not stepping out into this really big opportunity that, you know, is your line path. So we crafted some messaging for him. So he was just sharing his expertise to help people not feeling like oh, look at me, I'm so special, right? Just sharing his expertise to help people. Within two weeks, two investors who had been standing on the sidelines kind of going we like you. We don't know what to do with you. Immediately. They're like, let's do this. We want to help you what's how that's awesome. Yeah, they did they raise the funding for it. They have this whole new venture going. So it was because of a belief that he held That is the difference with this framework. Yes, we're gonna get to the leadership, yes, we're gonna get to the communication and the engagement, not until you understand how you're wired. Because it's like putting a BandAid on a sucking chest wound. And we won't do

I always really feel like, you know, you really got to get to the root, right, you know, yeah, you really got to get to the root, otherwise, it's just gonna keep on coming back, coming back and coming back.

It's like a weed, right? The Weed keeps growing. And yes, you can spend a lot of time cutting it off. But at managing a lot of this extra energy, let's rip the weed out and let it be gone. So it doesn't get in your way anymore. You can move forward faster without getting stuck in the roadblocks.

I really think that is really can be key attina I know that you work with individual business owners, but you also work with businesses and organizations? And those are two different things. Right? You know, both have to be in alignment, of course, right? But how do you work with them? Both? What are some of the different ways that you work with them? And you work? You tell us? What are some of the different like outcomes and focus areas when you're doing one and doing the other?

Sure yeah, not the framework works for both. Like that's the key is the framework, we utilize it for both. When we're working with an individual, we're really going into their individual core beliefs, right? Their mindset, their psychology, their values, what's really important for them. And then we utilize all of that to create their alignment code and aligned action plan, right to where they want to be. And so when we're looking at an individual, it's really getting down to the core of what is it that you want to create in this world? And why is that so important to you? And then we create the aligned pathway to make that happen. Now, when we're working with organizations, it's similar, but it's from an organizational standpoint, what what is it that the organization is trying to achieve? What's the vision of the organization? How might the people who are making that vision happen, align themselves with this vision, and we can uncover some areas where they may not be fully in alignment, and it's stopping them from showing up powerfully in their day to day work? Right. And so the scale up framework, it goes across the board. One of the things that's really powerful, though, within the framework is in the leadership's portion, we talk about how to craft generative questions. Okay. So when we're asking ourself questions, it's our brains like a Google search engine. So if you think about it from this perspective, it's just like with AI, right, the prompt that you put in there, the question that you ask, will lead to certain answers. And so if

The input equals output, for sure, likely and equals output

Right, and so, sometimes we don't know how to shape those questions in order to get the responses that we need and want, or to shift us into a creative state and out of a downward spiral. Right. So from an individual perspective, we teach them how to ask these questions. When you approach an organization and a team with these questions, and you create the safe space to allow the question to kind of percolate and people to really ruminate around it. It opens up doors. In fact, that is the leadership superpower of the future that Peter Drucker had mentioned back about 25 years ago. Right. So I'm part of a an organization with Marshall Goldsmith, it's for up and coming coaches and called forefront. Marshall Goldsmith was a founding member of Peter Drucker's Foundation, back in the 90s. And he shared with us one day said, I was sitting at the table, when Peter said, the leader of today knows how to tell the leader of the future will know how to ask. And that that's good. Yeah. That is where generative questions come in. Because it opens up possibilities and opportunities that we weren't even considering before. The questions that we ask will dictate the quality of the direction of our lives.

And you just don't know how much I love this. Because I've been talking about how if you want better answers, ask better questions, right for a very, very long time. I also really have dived deep into this concept of instead of brainstorming that it's not the way I bring things up, question storming. And so I had somebody on my podcast, Melina HALMER, and that she actually wrote a book about it. And when she actually broke it, I was like, oh, no, that's why it's so important to me, right and really thinking about what that is, and so I feel like that is is really important because a lot of times we don't ask the right questions, and then we wonder why we don't get the answers. And I think we write in AI now that has helped people to see it a little bit differently when they do prompts. And then they're like, Oh, I do this problem. Why is this not telling me and then somebody else gets a really good? It's also, is it aligned with you? Is it authentic to you? I mean, all of those, everything you're saying actually works with that as well. But here's the thing. So you've just talked to us about how you work with these different sets of people, so to speak, like, you know, teams and organizations versus, you know, solopreneurs entrepreneurs, business owners. Now, what does that look like in the sense of like, so, for entrepreneurs and business owners? I'm sure you work with them? You know, one on one, I absolutely know you have a group program, because I have actually seen your workshop, which is phenomenal. I think I've watched it like three times now. So like, I know, you do that. But how does that kind of translate over? In what ways and model do you use for the two different ones? You don't? I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

So it's interesting, because I mean, organizations are made up of people. Right? So yes, so the framework aligns, and for both, now, if we're working individually, with the entrepreneur or business owner, it's very focused on their specific pathway, right, we're creating we're, we're basically laying out a pathway that is directly aligned for them. We look at where, where they are now. Where they want to be, what's the gap? What's getting in the way? And how might we lay a foundation together of aligned actions for them to take to close the gap? Okay, so we're going to do we do that through one on one coaching, we do that through a mastermind, we do have a mastermind, that it's fascinating. I love it, because it's different entrepreneurs from different industries. So you might think, Oh, well, they don't get me they're doing their if they know, humans are humans, right? We're all working toward a meaningful outcome. And I like to use that instead of goals. Of course, we'll say goals. But it's really a meaningful outcome. What is the outcome that you want? Why does it matter? What is it about this outcome that is so important? And so when we're in the mastermind, everyone's doing their framework? And then we're sharing with each other? Hey, what's working for you? Why is that working for you? What questions? Are you asking yourself? Because we'll leave it

That's a good one right there. That's a that's a really good one, like my brain is automatically going to oh, well, if you like that, the thing would be what what questions are they asking? Because it's not that they're getting to a place that you might not be able to get to? It might not be aligned with you. But it could be that you're not asking yourself the right questions. That's right, because so that I think, is super, super powerful. Right there,

Right? It's about pooling resources. It's about saying, Hey, here's something I offer, anybody need that? I'm looking for this? Who has something that can help me, right, because one of the things that we get into his like, we get stuck in how to do something. And we get to step back and ask those questions of what is it that I'm really wanting to create? And why we get that vision in our mind about what does it look like smell like feel like like when it's working well, and everything's going the way I want it to go? What does that feel like? Your brain actually opens up start recognizing possibilities and opportunities aligned with that vision? Right? This is the way our brains work. And so we do this, even with organizations, when we go in with organizations, we're going to do discovery ahead of time with the organization. Before we do maybe a workshop, right, we'll do a workshop around the scale of framework, we can do one on one coaching within the specific individuals who are driving change, driving the innovation driving the bus forward. But what we want to make sure of is in the discovery, like what is it that the organization wants to create? What's the vision of the organization? What does that look like when it's working? Well, and where are we now compared to that, right? And so then we start applying the framework of scale, to help people show up in their most creative way, so that they can see possibilities and opportunities that maybe they were shut down to before. They can ask questions that open up possibilities that are way beyond what they're currently looking at. And it just helps them to move forward a lot faster.

And that can be super powerful, right? Because it really is about how can you move forward faster. That's what people really want. Cool. How like I've heard it's

Like that's the thing. How do you adapt in this Changing World? How do you recognize something is out of alignment and adapt? And before it smacked upside the head?

Right? It's kind of like how you know, when people go to therapy or they do inner work, right, whatever the case may be, and they kind of learned that they have triggers, and then you see these triggers. And then you know, oh, when that trigger happens, this is how I adapt to that. And I change it. So this isn't exactly that. But I mean, in a way, if you've learned, like, I know that I have learned, what are my triggers, and you know, now when they happen, and in a business aspects, sometimes when I recognize things that I do, I don't recognize it as fast as I would like to when I wish I could say that every time I go down a rabbit hole, Russia, you know what I'm going, Oh, I'm going down a rabbit hole, or whatever the case may be, right. But I think that it is really important to be able to adapt now I'm very adaptable. But I would say that is really very core for me. However, however, I'm very adaptive. But first, you have to recognize it first. You have to adapt until you're recognized. Right? You know, so that's really important. And I have said many times, if people say to me, like if somebody says to me, Oh, well, Patti, do you think maybe it could be this or whatever. Now, I may not always know what it is. And then if somebody says I'd be like, Oh, wow, that's that's kind of interesting. Tell me more about that. So I'm, I'm coachable, and I'm open. But I will tell you, I will know what it's not. Because I do know myself as well. So if somebody says, Oh, I'll be like, Oh, no, it's absolutely not that. I may not always know what it is. But I'm really clear about what it is not. So I do know myself that work. I've done a lot of work. Right, the inner work. So I do so in business. So I think that is really interesting. So is that why scale up is considered next level for visionary leaders and business owners?

Yeah, it really is. Because the inner work the inner work into it, right? It's not surface level, right? When you'd lead, just like you said, when we've done the inner work, and we can recognize our triggers we can recognize and just get curious, right? A big piece of scale is as we go through, there are questions that are embedded throughout the entire framework that helped to shift you into a curious state, a creative state, because we're really quick to go to judgment. And it's just our natural wiring, right? We like to say success by design, not by default. Because yeah, we are naturally going to default, the way our brains are wired to look for threats, look for what's wrong, because our brain is just trying to keep us safe. It's its job, our brains job is not to make us happy and successful is to keep us alive. And so your brain is constantly looking for something that can get in the way of keeping you alive, that can make you uncomfortable, stressed, right, take a lot of energy to do. It's like no, no, no, no, I'm going to stick with what I know. And as long as I know it, and I haven't died yet. I'm fine. Right? That's not the best way to use your brain. But that's just the default. Right? And so we are going to default to judge things. What happens though, when we are in a state of judgment, is it is the graveyard for innovation, curiosity, and possibility. So part of scale up is helping us to do the inner work so that we can shift out of judgment and into curiosity. That is what allows us to step in next level, and up level, no matter what it is we're doing, right? Notice, we haven't said, if you're building a business, if you're losing weight, if you want to be a better parent, if you want to scale your current business up, because it doesn't matter what it is, you are the person showing up to do all of these things. That is what we get to scale up. And everything else is just an upward spiral from there.

I love that upward spiral I Love You know, so many people are worried that they're gonna go on a downward spiral upward spiral is, is just a beautiful thing. So Tina, if somebody is feeling like they're out of alignment, right, you're thinking, you know, what, you know, now that I've heard you say, this team, that kind of feeling, you know, whatever. Like, I don't want my audience to feel like, Oh, you're totally screwed. Unless you're part of scale up, right? You know, you're totally screwed. Like, you know, give it up right now. But I feel like, you know, what are some of the things I want to make sure that they walk away with some questions that they could be asking themselves, like, what is some self reflecting that people could do? What are some questions that if they're thinking, you know, what, I'm off, you know, I'm not feeling for sure. And you know, it's not like we ask ourselves, like, Oh, I'm not feeling fulfilled, right, unless somebody really asks us that questions and positions it that way. We probably don't ask ourselves that. And you know, we don't wake up and say, Oh, I'm not feeling very fulfilled, right? What we're feeling is oh my gosh, I'm overwhelmed. And I'm so tired. And I'm not sleeping well, like, we're because what we're thinking about are the symptoms, right? These are the symptoms, right? So what wouldn't be like, you know, one, two, or three, whatever you feel comfortable with? What are some questions? So these are the writer downer. So um, everybody, so get ready. What are some questions for them to ask themselves, that maybe will help them to understand that maybe they're ready for a shift, right? Maybe they're, that they're not in alignment, maybe that the reason why they're not so happy, and they come home at night, and they're thinking, Oh, I'm so tired. I want to go to bed like right after dinner, and I'm waking up in the morning, and I'm already tired. And oh, just the thoughts. So before they get in the car, and can't get out and ask themselves and say I can't do this anymore. What are just a few questions that they could ask themselves that maybe they should be thinking, you know, what, it's time for a change. And this isn't authentic. To me, this is not in alignment for me. Where would they start? Like, what were some questions that they should ask themselves? And then the second part of that question would be, if you have a company and you or maybe you just have a team? Are there things that we could be looking for that we're seeing in our team? That maybe we could recognize that maybe we're not as healthy as we could be as a tea? Yeah, right. Yeah. So individual first and then team? Sure.

Yeah, on the individual level, you're right, we don't wake up and go and just don't feel fulfilled today, you started to notice that you're maxed out, you're burnt out, you're tired, right? You're feeling stuck, you're feeling a lot of times, or we recognize people feel this like hole to something more. But it's a little fuzzy, right? They're not really sure exactly what it is. They just know, there's something more it can't be this, like, there's got to be more than this. Right? When you ask, ask yourself that question. And so what I like to help people connect to first is your vision of what you truly want in your life. Imagine, everything is going as you would want it to be. What does that look like? Right? Just like yourself, just give a little bit more of that kid like, right enthusiasm and curiosity of hmm, if my whole life and my business was going exactly as I would want it to be? What's happening, you just connect to this vision? Because that's going to shine a light on Oh, I would want it to be this. But this is actually happening.

Okay, there's a gap. Right? Maybe we can't identify what the gap is. But you see, there's a gap. That's the first start, right? And then we ask instead of going well, I don't know how to fix that. Because here's what happens if we don't know how, a lot of times we just don't do anything. Because we don't, we're going to take the first step and don't know where to Step. Ask yourself, how might I? How might this fix itself? Or who do I know who could help me right? Instead of going I don't know how to do that. You just ask yourself as generative questions? How might this work? What might be possible? Your brain will surprise you? You think it's a Chrome for sure. Yeah. But your brain will start to go, oh, well, you could do this. And you could do that. Right. But here's what we normally do. Why is that broken? Why is that not working? Well, again, your brain is gonna give you an answer. Well, because you didn't do this. You didn't do that. You knew you were supposed to do that. That leaves you stuck. Right? That doesn't help you move forward. But in shifting that question, how might we? How am I right, that opens up new possibilities. And then you ask yourself, what becomes possible, when all of this is working, the way I want it to? Those questions will elicit new ideas from you. But you've got to pause, notice and choose. So what else I've definitely walk away with that you can't do this when you're running on the hamster wheel and you're out of breath and you're sweating. And you're like your your body is in fight flight in that moment, right? Things shut down. That's when you shut down. Just take a breath and pause even if it's five minutes. And just ask yourself these questions. Right? And it's the same thing with organizations. You're going to notice if you're leading a team, pay attention to what your folks are showing you. Are they looking like they're burnt out? Are they missing deadlines? Are they showing up like all in anxiety, but you're not seeing the return? Like what is happening here? Look at your people, right? Yes. Get your numbers, they'll tell you where you are, where you're not. But you got to look at your people. And it's the same questions,

Happy people over profits first, big

And here's the key, right? We talked about Conscious Capitalism companies, the four tenets of conscious capitalism are conscious culture, higher purpose, conscious leadership and stakeholder integration, nowhere towards it talk about profits. Because when you are embodying those four tenets, and all of your folks are, the profits naturally show up? Of course, right? And so yes, focus on what you want to create, the environment you want to create. And the profits will come.

I just really love that. And I love that you talk about the questions too. You know, it kind of reminds me, like I'm celebrating my 26 year wedding anniversary this week. So I'm kind of excited. But back in the day, many years ago, when I had gotten divorced from my starter husband, as I like to call from my start husband, when I got divorced, because I'm the type of person who, oh, if something's broken, what can I do to fix it? Like, that's just my natural thing? Like, oh, I want to make sure, you know, oh, I don't want to make sure I don't have a pattern. So like I said, Oh, I'm gonna go and see somebody, I'm gonna hire somebody and ask that question. And they gave me an exercise that has that changed my life. It sounds similar, but that my version of it for me, and I actually raised my children doing it too. And I see my children doing it with their children now, and I just love it. And the thing for me is it kind of centers around, what are our options? So whenever something happens to be doesn't go well, or it's like, oh, that's what I wanted to do. But I can't or I'm feeling something, am I Oh, I'm just, you know, kind of bummed or I'm overwhelmed. Whatever that case may be. The question I asked myself all the time is, well, what are my options? What are my options? So for me, it's like, well, my options are, and I remember when I was raising my kids, right, and I, I remember specifically, for the sake of a story, you know, I told my daughters, she had done something. And I had, I had put her on restriction, right for the weekend. And she was whining. And I said, Well, let's talk about it. Like, what are your options? And she said, Well, what do you mean? I said, Well, option number one is you could keep on whining like you are, and you're going to be grounded for two weekends. Right? You know, second option is you're going to have a better attitude about it. And you've been saying, there were some things you wanted to do. And now you could do those. Third option is you could spend some time with the family, like I listed her options. But what was funny is even when they were little, I was like, What do you want for lunch? You want a peanut butter sandwich? You want a bologna sandwich, right? And like, I feel like it taught my children, how to ask themselves better questions, how to make better decisions, and to be able to get pulled themselves out of it. I have to tell you, every time I catch myself still saying it. I actually sometimes say it out loud to myself to not be like, Oh, panic. So what are your options? But it's how I work through the problems. And I hear my children do it too. And when they call me up, mom, blah, blah, blah, like, I don't know, what are your options? She's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Like, then they default to that. They're like, Oh, well, what are my options? And it makes you think of possibilities, right? You know, here's all your possibilities, choose which one is going to work for you. And if that doesn't work, guess what? Pick a different one. Like you're not locked into that. So it's not the same. I kind of love your version of asking those questions even better. But I think that the idea of you don't have to stay stuck. Yeah, there is another option. Right? You know, you don't have to stay stuck. So I love this scale up framework. Because a because it's five things, right, you know, five things. So you know, I think a lot of times people are Oh, yes, I want to make a change. And they're like, oh, yeah, you need to do this. And then here's this big ol long checklist of all these things that are like, Yeah, I do. But like, I don't have time for that, you know, whatever. But five things, right, you know, five things. I mean, you're not saying five things in five minutes, you're just saying five things, right? You know, so I really feel like that is kind of powerful. Now, what I love about now that you've actually shared all this with us, you also have a gift for them. That kind of works around this. So tell us a little bit about the gift. And for those of you who are interested in all you have to do is look below because there's a button right there for you to grab it. So, yes.

So we've recorded I've recorded a masterclass, it's 20 ish minutes. It's not that long, right. But it basically goes through the five step framework of scale up to help you get from stuck to unstoppable and that's what I love about it, because it's the five steps to break free from the barriers that are keeping you stuck, to unlock possibilities for you to connect to and then to execute your greatest vision with clarity, courage and competence. So it's 20 minutes, you can't you can't go wrong listening to it. And some of the questions are in there to help you really connect and unlock the next level for you.

I love it. I think earlier in our conversation, I'd said, I've watched it three times, like I absolutely love it, it was very, very clear, you're very concise in doing it. And it's very easy to like, pay attention and to get it and to really see it in yourself. So I have to tell you, I think he's giving it to you for free. You guys should all go and grab that, for sure. So this is the portion of the show that I love to call hashtag open mic, where I like to ask our guests that, yes, you're given so much information. But this is the marketing media and money podcast, right? So if you had to narrow down to one marketing, medium money strategy, what would that strategy?

It's gotta be ask yourself generative questions. Right? If you're asking yourself a question of why is this not working? That's a stuck question. That's not opening up possibilities for you. So focus on instead of how, who can help me instead of why is this not working? How might I create it? The generative questions will take you to the next level all the time.

Ah, love that so much. Thank you so much for sharing that that is one cool, how can people connect with you what is the best way for them to connect with you because I know they're going to want to

Yes, I would love to connect with anyone who's interested. I'm on LinkedIn, TP sunshine, or Tina Parker, my website is lead outside the lines.com, you can go there and connect. And I look forward to having a conversation with folks, your leaders or your readers, your listeners to help them get to the next level.

I love that. Thank you so much. And for those of you she is our leadership expert, and the marketing media and Money Magazine, and every single issue of the magazine, she shares other resources that she also gives you at no cost. So you're gonna want to tap in to that she shares so generously from her heart. So thank you so much for saying yes. When I asked you to write for my magazine, as well.

And thank you for asking, you're such a blessing. Patty, you give so much from your heart, it is easy for any of us to come into your community and just share because you are such a heartfelt leader. So thank you so much for what you're doing.

Thank you so much. And thank you to our audience like thank you so much for week after week showing up. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. Right, I appreciate it. I appreciate you. So if you enjoyed this episode, and I am sure that you did please like review and subscribe to the podcast. We are now on YouTube. So subscribe to our YouTube channel and marketing. Medium money is our YouTube channel. And if you haven't already read our magazine, it is free and we will give you a lifetime subscription actually. So just go to M3magazine.com M3magazine.com Until next week. I hope you have a phenomenal week. Thank you so much for being here.