Ross Symons is our guest today on the Unlocking Your World of Creativity podcast.

Ross is an origami expert, and he has become an internet sensation by fusing this skill with animation and video production. Origami is the ancient Japanese art of paper-folding that's never really gone out of fashion and is now becoming a modern fad in the era of YouTube instructions and Instagram.

Here is an example of his work: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdNKaSjqi00/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

He has created engaging stop motion animations for some of the world's biggest brands, including Red Bull, Adidas, Disney Plus, Nordstrom, Sony, PlayStation, Converse, McDonald's, Samsung, and Dior, which has helped them stand out in the crowded digital landscape.

Ross successfully completed a 365-day origami Instagram project in 2014 and 2017, folding and posting a different origami figure each day for an entire year onto Instagram, all the while making animations between the single photo posts.

The projects grew his following on the platform from 120 to 100K+ and helped him to capture the attention of the big brands he works with today.

Like many entrepreneurs, Ross worked a 9 to 5 job as a website developer at Ogilvy, one of the top advertising, marketing, and PR firms in the world, before founding his company White on Rice.

Over time, he came to realize that working for someone would never allow him to live the happy, free life he desired, and he took the risk of leaving a secure and well-paying profession in 2014 to pursue his passion for origami, which he had done since 2002 as a hobby.

Ross's gamble paid off as he grew his business into a sought-after creative agency in less than four years. He has been featured on major media outlets, including CNN, Business Insider, and The Times.

On the podcast, Ross talks about:

• How he built a thriving creative business that collaborates with some of the world's biggest brands out of his genuine passion for origami.
• How agencies and creatives can help brands they work with standout using stop motion animations and origami.
• Do you want to quit your 9-to-5 job to become a creative entrepreneur? Ross's reasons you should do it and advice on how to successfully make the switch from employment to entrepreneurship.
• How to connect with other creatives online using social media. 
• The importance of understanding money and entrepreneurship as a creative/artist. 
• Ross's tips for young creators who are just starting out.
• The impact of A.I. on the creative industry.

Ross's Website

@white_onrice on Instagram

Ross on YouTube

Ross's Facebook page

Copyright 2024 Mark Stinson

auto-generated transcript

Well, we're traveling today to Cape Town, South Africa, and we're talking with our friend Ross Symons. Ross, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. And Ross is world. His world is combining the ancient art of paper folding origami with the most up-to-date digital technologies and stop motion animation.

It's really exciting to talk to you.

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: Yeah. Thanks for having me on. It's, it's, yeah, it's always great speaking to people from anywhere in the world, but yeah, it's nice to have, nice to be on the show. Yeah. Well,

Mark Stinson, host: thank you. Well, I think a good place to start is just that combination of origami and stop motion animation and how you began to see that overlap.

You know, just sort of a hobby of one and a vocation of the other. And you said, Hey, why don't I put these two together? How did that start for you?

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: I mean, I could go all the way back to when I was a child in the first animation. I mean, I still remember the first animation I ever saw was who Framed Roger Rabbit?

But Not everybody, you know, carries it in their heart through, throughout their life. And I think that was always with me. I was always watching animations making little animations. I mean, those little flip book animations were sure, I guess that was the extent to which I attempted to create an animation later on in my life.

I, you know, I started messing with photography and I guess the stop frame animation thing just always fascinated me because it was a very, Very tactile, very hands on, sort of what was in the camera was happening in real life, just in a very staged and quirky way. I, I found that you could add a lot of humor to stop frame.

Friends, you know, just something silly that was, that just didn't make any sense. Like, look what I did with my voice. This was back in the day when all you had was the like little waveform thing in I think it was on Windows. Yeah. Make little sounds in music and it j it was just, it was just something that, that just lit me up.

I could make this short, I guess, short form piece of content, you know, if that's, you know, kind of how you look at it now and deliver it quickly and then move on to the next piece and. Going forward. I you know, I've, I've had many fascinations with, with different things I've been into hobby electronics and I'm a web developer by trade, so technically I, I, I think I've got that technical you know, that curiosity of how the machine world works.

I mean, I say recent, I started when I was 21. I'm, I'm 40 now, and it was just, again, something I could create quickly with a piece of paper, fold it. And give it to somebody or throw it away or do whatever it was. But it was just this, I guess, this ritual act of taking a piece of paper and folding. I what I all I could fold for the longest time was an origami bird, little crane.

Yes. And I folded that over and over and over. And. It was always just, I was, I was never really the origami guy or whatever, but people would always know that if there was a little crane around and I was around, they knew it was me, that it had folded it and. The more I, I guess entered into that world and started looking at diagrams and, and tutorials online, the more I saw, wow, there's this whole, you know, community and art form centered around this, this ancient art form.

So I just went ahead with that and you know, did that as much as possible. And in 2014, I decided I needed to document myself at least attempting to get better at this whole thing. So I did that on Instagram and I. Decided to do a full 365 day project, which was posting one origami figure every day that I'd found in a book on a tutorial online, and fold it, take a photo of it, post it onto Instagram, and yeah, that's, that's all it really was.

It was, I, it was, I. Nothing more than me wanting to keep a digital record of everything I'd created.

Shapes and sizes of, of all types. It's an amazing body of work.

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: Thank you very much, and I think that's, it's just, I guess, Tenacity, I think is, is the one thing that I, I definitely have and patience. It was just, I, I'd never really set out to become No. Who sets out to become a paper folding artist mm-hmm.

And create a career from it. I mean, it, I still question it. I mean, nine years in and I've got a brand and it's, you know, it's doing well and I'm getting, I'm connecting with people all over the world and brands and I'm like, is this still a thing? You know, I guess the whole imposter syndrome thing, you know, it always creeps up, but I guess where the, where the animation kind of came in was while I was doing this project.

And I just decided to see what all the, I guess, the possibilities were around that. I started designing my own origami designs. And just telling little stories with him. And, and when Bran saw that, they were kind of like, wow, this guy's got, you know, he is done this project, he's doing pretty well on Instagram.

Tried to maintain was that curiosity of what can I do with origami and. All these other be it new or old skills and interests that I've cultivated over the years and how do I blend them together And yeah, it's working for me and, and I now I [00:08:00] get just, I, I get to, you know, connect with, with people that are doing some crazy stuff.

I, I recently connected with a guy who does augmented reality and you know, and virtual reality stuff. So he's into all the sort of headset stuff and, and kind of one of the front runners of that. That whole space also very much into the ai technology as well. And him and I did a, a CoLab CoLab where I created the origami piece.

He kind of did the, the, the back end of, you know, how to create this as a filter. And on Instagram you can now find a little origami rabbit and whatever, which you can create an augment augmented reality filter with. So for me, that's just the, the fact that I've, I've just stuck with that style of origami, just keeping it, you know, that ancient.

I mean, that, that's where creativity comes from. Taking two things in my mind at least, taking two things that have. Seemingly very little to do with each other, bringing them together and see what you can create. And a lot of the, look, a lot of the time I've created some really bad stuff.

Mark Stinson, host: It doesn't work.

That's the experimentation, isn't it? Yeah,

And when you see that, it's kind of like you, you don't think that you're growing and changing and developing, but when you see something like that, you're like, wow, I've actually done something.

Mark Stinson, host: Yes. Well, and Instagram following has changed and morphed over time. Yeah. I think you started with like a hundred followers, you know, now you're over a hundred thousand.

You know, it's, it's not, I'm not saying that's what happened with me, but. It is possible just keeping consistent and, and yeah, it's, it's, it's been a magical ride, honestly. Well, and

Mark Stinson, host: like you said, got some attention of some big brands like Red Bull and Adidas and Disney and Nordstrom. I'm reading this list here.

Sony and PlayStation, Samsung, McDonald's but you've also created your own brand. As you said, your website developer, maybe by, by trade, by training, but you've really been able to shape this craft as your own brand and your own company. Tell us how you did that. I think

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: I remember cuz what at the beginning of that Instagram project I was posting every day and I was posting it as myself, as Ross Simon's, you know, origami guy.

Web apps, that sort of thing. So I had this advertising environment around me all the time, a lot of creativity. And I was always over, you know, looking over at what the designers were doing, what the, what's the project manager doing, what are the managers doing, you know, what's the illustrator doing?

What are the animators doing? And I'm just sitting there, you know, putting up whatever they've told me to do, like, put this website up, needs to be up by that date. And so I always had my eye open to what was going on around me. So I think when I quit my job, which I did during that year that I started the Instagram project, I.

A friend of mine used to see all my little origami figures all over in coffee shops and, you know, whether it was at somebody's house and she would tag me. She would take a photo of it and tag me on. On Twitter at that stage. And she was like, I see your little origami figures all over the place. She like whites on rice, whites on ice.

You know the expression meaning Yes. You, you've got it covered. You're everywhere. The place. Yes, you're everywhere. And I was like, whites on rice, like rice, Japanese, white. You know? It just, it, it worked out so well because yeah, paper is white and it's, it's an ancient Japanese art form. So I was just like, that sounds like the coolest origami brand name ever.

So I just took it and, and I ran with it.

I think I'll try it and see if I can make some money out of it.

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: Yeah. It, it, it's, and it's still like that I, I, I have yet to follow the money. Honestly. There's, I mean, I need to make money. I need to eat, I need to you know, I need to survive. But the, every time I've attempted to go down that route, which is like, okay, let's, let's go make some money.

Now let's create this thing that's gonna make me money. It just didn't feel Genuine. It didn't feel like I was doing it for the reason that I initially started the whole thing, which was to express myself creatively and, and potentially put it onto Instagram or, or what, you know, just share it with as many people that were willing to watch or to see what I was doing.

And I just believed kind of blindly, I was just like, well, I'm just gonna make this work and see what happens. And I started doing, you know, animations and, but I also do installations, so I learned how to design origami figures. And I also sold myself as an origami installation artist. So, That was the, if the animation stuff wasn't working out, I was always available for events.

You know, whether it's me sitting there teaching people how to fold a whole bunch of cranes or whate, whatever the case is. Or me getting together with a team, folding a whole bunch of butterflies and then creating it for an installation for a brand, or whatever the case is. And just over time I just, you know, having a few entrepreneurial or entrepreneurs around me.

I would keep asking them like, am I charging the right rates? How would you charge this or, or charge for this? Or, and, and they would break it down and say, cool, well go about it in this way. This is how like, I would do it if I was charging for my agency or as a freelancer and having those conversations.

And you, you have to develop a relationship with it. Which is, which is exactly what I've done. And I mean, it's a, it might sound silly, but I see money as this entity that it's almost like a, a friend that I get to see every now and then sometimes. They're there to wa to say hello and, you know, they hang around for a while and then they disappear for months at a time.

Yes. And then you just hope, and you hope that they come back

Mark Stinson, host: and, well, you've described this word relationship, which I think, you know, is the mental shift that a lot of us need to make, isn't it? That you know, this self-talk even that says, oh, I'm not that good at money. I don't like to get my hands dirty with the finances, that sort of thing.

But, but you really need to embrace it,

I, I, and I think it, that for me came from a place of fear. I was scared that if I started calling myself like a commercial artist or if I started charging people a specific amount of money, I was gonna ge be looked down upon by whatever. And then I realized like no one actually cares. Really nobody. I mean, and, and the more I started realizing, coming from a marketing background and an advertising background, understanding that you need to market and brand yourself in a, in a way that you can sell the work that you're doing.

For a price that allows you the lifestyle that you are comfortable with living. And once I made that connection, I was just like, well, this is pretty much what I, how I need to approach it. And I need to understand money and I need to, like you said, like, like I said earlier, develop a relationship with it.

And then they tell me how much they're charging. I'm like, oh man, he and I

Mark Stinson, host: need to sit down and have, let's have

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: another chat. Yeah. We need to, and

Mark Stinson, host: well, the conversation someone had with you. Yeah,

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: exactly. Yeah, it's, it was exactly that. It was like, mm-hmm. I would maybe bump the price up. I remember somebody telling me like, whatever you set your price at, just remember.

That. If you set it too low, taking it up really quickly is gonna be difficult. So rather set it too high and bring it down. And for me, that made sense as well. So I kind of shot for the stars and yeah. And sometimes you, you send a quote and you think like, whoa, there's no way somebody's gonna pay this.

So you've gotta play that game as well. It is, it's a game. It's a game of money. It's a game of of, of relationship. It's a game of. Bit of negotiation. We, we my, my wife and I just landed at quite a nice job now, but it, there was a negotiation att attached to it, and, and it was fun. And it, it has to be fun.

It can't be, I've seen so many people be so scared of the, the finance and, and the money side of, it's like, and when they get money, it's just like they hold onto it and it's like, mm-hmm. Oh, you know, it's just this. Oh, I'm, so you can see they're grateful for it, but they're so scared of it. They, they're treated like it's this, like almost unwelcome, but.

You very welcome kind of guest in the house. Yes. Yes. And it's just interesting for me wait for me, I'm kind of like, well, if you don't wanna hang out today, we'll see you next week. You know? Yes.

Mark Stinson, host: Such good insight. Well, folks, my guest is Ross Symons and we're talking to him in Cape Town, South Africa.

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: I've always seen. Particularly Cape Town and, and South Africa on a, the work that we do and the, the work we produce here is of an international standard. And I think that I automatically saw that when I started getting, you know, featured in all these places. I was kind of like the work I'm doing, is it, I come from Africa, I consider myself an African, but I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a white guy sitting in the very bottom of Africa.

But slowly the work that we are producing is starting to become, you know, of, of recognized at least on, on an international scale. And the work that is being produced here is Is, yeah, it's, it's of the best anywhere. And I, I think going forward, you're gonna see a lot more south African and African work.

It's amazing to watch and see.

Mark Stinson, host: Well, and thinking of what's ahead for you we've talked about things like technology. We've also talked about, you know, AI and AR and everything else. Where do you see your work heading?

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: I do see myself. I guess, or the skills that I've developed, I, I do see, again, you know, I see them being used on, on an international level, but I think for me, what, what I really want, what I want for myself and for the brand is to be able to create something that has a.

Quite a bit of story attached to it. Be it a series or an animated film of some kind. Using all those elements and if it has an African element to it, that would be amazing. But just something that that speaks to, I guess, the the nature of how we consume and digest content. I mean I sit and watch The Simpsons almost every night, and that show's been going for the, I think it's 34 seasons.

You know that, that you as a medium that can be used to tell stories, a medium that is it's visually very I guess well, it's undeniably, you know, unique and, and different. So yeah, I think going forward for me just blending all the technologies and with, with ai, I mean, who's, who's to say that, you know, maybe I don't work with a team that creates some sort of ai, origami stop motion animation type in, let's watch a movie about, you know, Donald Duck.

I guess that's, That's what I, what I can safely say yes.

Mark Stinson, host: Well, we can't wait to see the results of that because what you've produced so far is amazing. And listeners, if if you think you're gonna take, you know, a couple minutes to look at Ross's Instagram and you find yourself an hour later going, wow, that was a, a wild ride down, then you, you've experienced it the right way, I think cuz it's some great stuff.

Well, thanks for sharing all your insight and your creativity, Ross, really appreciate it. Tell us where we can learn more about you and follow your work.

Ross Symons, Origami + Animation: Yeah, of course. On Instagram you can find me. The brand name is White on Rice. It's white underscore on rice white on rice.com. That's the website.

Or if you want to email me, Ross White hyphen on rice.com.

Digital technology we'll find, and it's been great talking to you, Ross, about, you know, creative inspiration, especially collaboration. I really want to underscore that from our conversation because sometimes we feel alone out there in the creative world and we have this image of the lone creator sitting in the basement, you know, trying to work on their craft.

But without those collaborations and even just coffee conversations about how to improve our skills we don't move ahead as fast as we could. Absolutely. Yeah, so thanks for helping us embrace that even more. Well, listeners, come back again next time. We're gonna continue our around the world journeys.

Your world of creativity. We'll see you soon.