Episode 5: Seasons of Transitions

Artwork for podcast Encounter Grow Witness

17th June 2021 • Encounter Grow Witness • EGW Detroit

Fr. Steve:

Welcome to another wonderful episode of Encounter Grow Witness, a podcast in the Archdiocese of Detroit for our tremendous and faithful lay ecclesial ministers, working in Mission Direct in parishes and doing all the work to help build up a community of joyful missionary disciples -- and this is so much fun because we are finally in person Beth. It's great to see you.

Beth:

I know, I see all of you -- we are actually in the flesh! It's kind of crazy.

Fr. Steve:

I couldn't wear shorts this time with my clerical shirt right?

Beth:

Okay, that's getting a little personal; Ron doesn't want to hear about that. Our producer's not interested. Neither are our listeners.

Fr. Steve:

Well, this is really great. It's really fun. I feel like we're kind of on the doorstep of summer now and, you know, obviously not totally out of the pandemic, but a good way towards defeating it and just a great joy -- so, I'm excited to be with you and I'm excited for our topic that we're going to talk about today. So Beth, why don't you kind of like lead us into that?

Beth:

Lead us in. Well, we are just realizing that transition is a big thing that all of us are dealing with right now here in the Archdiocese of Detroit and even globally, if we think of transitioning from this pandemic, and we're also just transitioning to summer. So, I want to hear about favorite summer memories. I, for me â€”I, we spent, I think there was several summers in a row where I went to the pool every single day -- every single day by myself. I'd walk myself there, play at the pool, come home. That was like my summer routine.

Fr. Steve:

That's awesome.

Beth:

It was great.

Fr. Steve:

Did you, and you'd go by yourself or with friends or others, or just kind of whoever; this is what I'm doing.

Beth:

I'm going to the pool. Yeah, that's right. It was at a neighborhood pool, just down the block.

Fr. Steve:

Did you have to sneak in like, was it someone's house?

Beth:

No, it was like a condominium pool. Like yeah, someone got a pass.

Fr. Steve:

It's probably bad -- I'm thinking of you like jumping over a fence and sneaking into a neighbor's pool.

Beth:

And now admitting it. That I did it weekly -- daily!

Fr. Steve:

It is your number one summer memory.

Beth:

Yeah, no, no, no. What about you? Any break-ins for you?

Fr. Steve:

Any break-ins? Well, I don't think I'm going to go to that route just yet.

Beth:

Okay, alright, saving it for later? Fine.

Fr. Steve:

The summer memories, I think of, especially, I had this wonderful aunt and uncle who were, who got married a little bit later in life and didn't have children and they had a cottage up in Traverse city, right on one of the bays there. And they would have myself, and some of my siblings and my cousins up for a week in the summer. And it was so much fun!I mean, we would, like you were saying, just swim all day long. We'd watch movies at night and just kind of hang out. And it was like this idyllic Michigan summer of being up north, and just kind of swimming and being exhausted. And we would sleep on the, on the floor in their kind of living room area, just all of us and like, you know, fall asleep, watching movies. It was just so much fun. That was one of my favorite memories for summer. Another one would be, we would participate in a local parks and rec program. So oftentimes we'd go, you know, during the week to this parks and rec program at Bruce D. Collins elementary school, named for the semi-famous astronaut, Bruce T. Collins, not Michael Collins who recently passed away, who was the one manning the spaceship, while Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed on the moon, the dude who didn't get to land on the moon, I thought, and that is heroic sacrifice. Anyway, that's not who our school was named for. It was a different astronaut, Bruce Collins, and we would just kind of play games and play sports and had a great time. Did you have any parks and rec stuff or something like that?

Beth:

I don't think we really did, I don't think so. I think we would sometimes have a babysitter, and then I remember filling Dixie cups with lemonade and putting them in the freezer, and we would put so many in that they would --you'd open the freezer and they would all come out and spill because everything was sticky and tasted like lemons. And my mom was so mad. She was like, this is a horrible tradition. So maybe she should have sent us to like a parks and rec or something -- run us around.

Fr. Steve:

We did not have air conditioning for most of my childhood, so it was almost always outside. And I just loved the summers being outside. I think lots of us feel that way. So yeah. So I mean, these, summer is a fun time, but it's, you know, end of the school year can be a lot of fun and all of the, for students, I don't know, maybe not for parents as much, but leading into that. But you know, the, the new seasons can be fun in different times in our life, but the transition to them can be really challenging, and we were talking about that just before we came on.

Beth:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have these seasons and just this week it was cold to start the week and then it got blazing hot in the middle, and I don't know about everyone else, and I'm going to get personal here -- I woke up and I was like, I don't have anything to wear. Not for a 90-degree day. I have nothing to wear like, well, what did I wear last year? Well, people didn't see me last year, so it didn't matter if I wore ratty things, you know? Yeah. So the transition to summer, I think came fast in the weather. Yeah. But I mean, we've also had seasons of transition in our lives, right? You're coming into a season of transition.

Fr. Steve:

I am. Yeah. So the archbishop, July 1, is the time when new assignments start, and he's asked me to take on a new assignment, which I'm really excited about, but, you know, transition is always a bittersweet time. So I've been asked to come to Sacred Heart Seminary, where we record Encounter Grow Witness.

Beth:

Yes, remember the number one podcast in the whole world?

Fr. Steve:

Yes, I know, I'm looking at the Unleash the Gospel insignia, and I almost said that -- so where we record Encounter Grow Witness and other podcasts here. So, I'll be full-time at Sacred Heart doing a priestly formation, teaching some classes, helping with the liturgy here and I'll be stepping away from my role as Director of Evangelization and Missionary Discipleship. So I'm really excited about what I'm going to, but it is like, it's, it's a lot of good byes; and not to be overly dramatic, cause it's not like I won't see people, you know.

Beth:

But not daily, not regularly.

Fr. Steve:

It'll be a different rhythm of my life, a different kind of, you know, day by day. And for me, one of the things -- and I like this, but it's challenging -- it's like you have to learn a new set of skills, or a new a new way of doing things that again, excited about, but it can also be a little intimidating. And so, I think the change or the, what I'm looking forward to I'm excited about, but there is a little bit of sadness in saying goodbye to what I have been doing, because it's been so much fun; I've gotten to meet you, and work with you and so many wonderful, joyful missionary disciples, like Ron Pangborn, our wonderful producer.

Beth:

He loves it when we mentioned his name; he really wishes we would do it more.

Fr. Steve:

I think it's written into his contract that at least once an episode, we have to give him a shout out. So it's been a great joy, but I'm, you know, the transitions are challenging.

Beth:

They are challenging. Yeah. I kept thinking I was coming into the finish of a transition, but it doesn't seem to be happening. We keep getting a new transition every few months. So we, I, yeah, at Shrine. I was at a parish for 13, 14 years, I think, all in, and then move to Shrine, and we had to move, my whole family moved. So like, new area, new, new landscape, new cultural references, all of that. So we started at Shrine, and then 9 months into my time there, when I was just starting to feel settled, knew the pastor called to be a Bishop. And so then, the whole parish that in transition, and then waiting with that, and then waiting for several months, who will be the new pastor, who will be the new pastor? New pastor, three weeks later, worldwide pandemic. I'm like, okay, pandemic keeps going, pandemic starting to wind down, Families of Parishes. Okay, like, let's just keep going with the transition. But it, it's a lot. And I think for me, I think when, when it was announced that Bishop McClory was going to transition on, of course I was sad. And then I also thought, well, I guess I'm newer here, so maybe it's, maybe it's not as hard for me to see things change, because I haven't been here as long. So maybe like, I almost felt like maybe like there's some way that I can be like an encouragement to people on staff, or like, you know, parish leaders, right? To help them like, just through the transition. And you know, that didn't happen to be the case. It turned out I was vulnerable to the transition, just like everyone else. Cause there's so many feelings, and you know, when things get changed, I mean, it's just, everybody has a reaction to it. You know?

Fr. Steve:

I think the kids say it's all the feels. That's what I've learned. All the feels, which sounds like nonsense. But I think it's legit young-people speak. Yeah. So there's always good parts of transition, things we're happy about, that you know, cause there can be really sad and difficult transitions, but yeah. You know, you talked about Monsignor, McClory becoming Bishop McClory and yeah, that was great. There was a lot of celebrating with that, right? You were not --

Beth:

Fr. Horn's great. So it's all great. I think change gets a bad rap because people think, oh, I hate change. But actually people love change. Like, they keep making new kinds of chips, and new flavors of ice cream, and new this and new that; new fashion. We love new. We love new. What we hate is transition. We hate transition.

Fr. Steve:

Cause that's the work.

Beth:

Yeah. It's the work of moving from one thing to the next, right? There has to be some sort of death. Unfortunately. Now I'm being dramatic -- a death.

Fr. Steve:

Wamp wamp, that's my job Beth, you're supposed to be the level-headed one.

Beth:

Oh level-headed, okay, I'll make a note of it.

Fr. Steve:

But no, you're right. There does have to be a kind of death and a letting go. And I see that in my work as I get closer to transitioning, you know, there's a number of things that I'm letting go of. And one of the really, kind of my own personality about like, no, no, no, I think this is the right way to do it. Just like you have to let go of that, and someone's going to do it differently. And in some ways, that won't be as good, right? But in other ways, of course, but in lots of other ways it'll be better because I have my own blind spots, my own ways of kind of missing things. So yeah.

Beth:

I was feeling bad when I left my previous parish because I felt like there were all these people that I was letting down, or something, to step away from the different things I was leading and I felt really bad about it. And in prayer, I felt the Lord say like a word of encouragement, but also kind of a hard word. Like it was never, this was never yours to begin with it. Like it never belonged to you, these people in this parish and this community it's always been mine. So it was, it was just very, very humbling, like, appreciate your help here Beth, but I think I'll be all right from the almighty One. Like, okay, well that makes sense. Of course. Yeah. You'll be good. I'll just go.

Fr. Steve:

You know, my, my staff seems really excited that I'm leaving -- very enthused and ready for it. So, we've been having a lot of fun with that as we, as we move to July 1 in that transition. So did you have a tie? So this for me is a pretty traumatic transition moment in my life and I'm really kind of, you know, I've got an excited, but I'll be missing some things. And, was coming to shrine one of the biggest kind of transitions in your professional life?

Beth:

In my professional life, yes. I also did work at a cafÃ© as a barista for only three days. So that was a really big transition for me, both when I started, and then when I gave my two weeks notice on day three, and they ended up choosing not to have me continue the whole time, which I was surprised by, you know, but also grateful.

Fr. Steve:

Was this during the pandemic? Or was this --

Beth:

Was it during the pandemic? Yeah, so professionally sure. Yes. I think this was the biggest transition I've had. Yeah, for sure. I mean my whole family moved, so that alone would be pretty significant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, do you have any thoughts for us on -- first, you know, I thought we could just talk about the unhealthy ways to cope with transition. Cause there's so many, and we seem to be really good at finding those ways to cope. So I thought maybe we could give our listeners some, just some fresh ideas if they're looking for unhealthy ways to cope.

Fr. Steve:

It's always good to talk about that, like the mistakes, right? The ways we can do it. And I think we can turn to lots of things and look for comfort in that. I know you talked with a lot of people during the pandemic too, who struggled with that, right? Like, just not knowing what to do and you can turn into kind of levels of comfort, whether it's eating, or drinking.

Beth:

Yeah, eating more, for sure. Yup, yup.

Fr. Steve:

Right. Yeah. And it can also, you know, I know one of the big temptations/challenges can be turning towards just social media, internet, Netflix, and just kind of, just kind of wasting time in that way. Because transitions often make us -- we just don't know what to do as much. And so, you know, you can feel like, eh, I don't want to say powerless, but kind of powerless. Right? Where you're not able to kind of like, okay, I know what I should be doing and know how to do it. And I want to do it. You're kind of in this limbo-area. And I know we'll talk about Families of Parishes in a little bit, but I think that's a real challenge as we think about that specifically for our audience, for both of our listeners that they --

Beth:

Both for our listeners, yeah, you and me.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah, no, no, as we think about that, so I think one of the challenges can be turning towards other kind of comforts in our lives that are not good for us, but it can also be just shutting down in some way when I stopped engaging with, with, you know, things that are helping me grow to be the man or woman mentally.

Beth:

I think part of that shutting down can just mean, like, we stopped doing, like, all the things that normally we would keep doing, right? Like just even the normal parts of our job in ministries. Right? Like, but then people start, like we come to a point where like, well, I don't know if this will happen one day, so maybe I should stop, you know? And there is a part of that, right, but I try and I started joking, like when we were waiting for a new pastor to be named, I started joking. I was like, well, I think even when we have our new pastor we'll still want to purchase Kleenex. So like, there are some things that we can really continue to do, even as we wait, because otherwise it sort of felt like everything got put on hold, and then there was a lot of sitting around and waiting -- perhaps more than there needed to be.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah, and I think in a parish setting, this is where things like Amazing Parish can be so helpful. I mean, a pastor obviously has to be the one that the buck stops with and the one in charge, but the pastor doesn't need to be the one signing off on buying Kleenex.

Beth:

That's what I thought, so we went ahead and bought it. And it turned out to be great. Fr. Horn was glad.

Fr. Steve:

That was a bold move, a bold move!

Beth:

Well, the world needs bold leadership. So, you know, when people can't, yeah. I think another, another way that I see unhealthy coping with transition is both dragging your feet and complaining. I think it's easy to do that. There's always, there's always something to complain about. It really can fill the time of day. Yeah. And I know that's of course, that's in Unleash the Gospel of course, that bad habit, complaining.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah, and I, think you're, you're right to identify that -- I've, that's been something on my mind a lot more -- just because there's something wrong, doesn't give us an excuse to complain about it. Right? Because there's always going to be problems. You know, we live in a very imperfect world. Our leaders are imperfect. They're going to make decisions that we don't agree with 100 percent of the time. And if our mode is just like, let me find fault with this, or let me highlight the things I don't like, that robs us of, of the part we're meant to play. Right? St. Paul talks about this. I wish my command of scripture was better, but I bet you know, this like where he talks about, like, if you judge the law, you're not an observer of the law because you're sitting outside the law and looking in on it. Right? You have to be within the law to, to really faithfully observe it. And I think that happens with, you know, the life of the church. Like, if you want to be a pundent or a critic on the outside, kind of lobbing false or pointing things out, that's one way to do it. But if you're in there getting your hands dirty, really trying to build up the kingdom, then you're, you're not going to have time to find fault with every problem.

Beth:

Right, right, right. Yeah. I think there was a dear parishioner that I chatted with years ago and she was always bringing these really insightful ideas, but they were also complaints, like, why not this and why this, and why is that like that? You know? And she had great ideas, but at some point I, I was inviting her into this committee and I wanted to know if she could make the switch from kind of finding fault, to being part of the solution, so I really had to just point like ask her, you have great vision and great ideas. Like, what would it feel like for you to step in and like begin to be part of the solution and some of these things, you know? And she had to really think about it. But I think she found it really freeing to imagine; cause she hadn't thought that was a possibility, you know? And I think maybe complaining happens when we do feel like we don't have any control. Right? That someone else is in charge and we don't like the way they're doing it. So we just kind of passive-aggressively complain. Right?

Fr. Steve:

Yeah, there's one person at, at one of the masses where, one of the places where I celebrate mass who, who follows along meticulously and then they have their, their, their missal, the missalette, and they follow along meticulously and, and I can see every now and then I noticed them, you know, they're following very closely every time I'd like misstate a word in the gospel and the prayer, I hear about it after mass. Now, father, you made this change in this prayer. Why did you do that? I want to say, I don't know, I got distracted for a minute. Right? I made a mistake. And I was thinking, you know, like, man, what a, like I just don't, you can't enter into prayer. You can't enter into what the mass is meant to be.

Beth:

We need to get someone like that on quality control. Is there like, can she measure the cups and make sure we have enough pens and those sorts of things.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah, that would be a great way to kind of move that into a, how we can solve that.

Beth:

Cause we do need those gifts, but perhaps they're not as well received as a critique after you've celebrated mass.

Fr. Steve:

And I just think like, it's not a way to enter into what God wants to do from us. Right. Like there's a way to say, I want to make sure the liturgy is celebrated reverently and accurately, but I also don't need to be the self- appointed, you know, proof editor, of everything that happened.

Beth:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have one other unhealthy way to cope with transition, and that is becoming a source of division, which is not so unlike complaining, but it is still I think, different. And I was just reading Pope Francis' writing on the joy of the gospel, which I have the unfortunate habit of quoting it in most things that I do, cause I just find it very useful. But there was he said, "How many wars take place within the people of God and in our different communities," then he goes on to say, "How many wars are caused by envy and jealousy, even among Christians? It always pains me greatly to discover how some Christian communities and even consecrated persons can tolerate different forms of enmity, division, calumny, defamation, vendetta, jealousy and the desire to impose certain ideas at all costs, even to persecutions. Whom are we going to evangelize if this is the way we act?" I mean, I was just reading through that and it felt like just you know, comparable to the bad habits and Unleash the Gospel, but I was just reading through that and I thought, oh my goodness. Yeah, right? We become a source of division in this transition. Right? Because we feel all the feels and we don't know what to do with it. So yeah. That's my last really good, bad idea for coping with transition.

Fr. Steve:

Well, I think you're right on there. I think it, you and Pope Francis are on the same page.

Beth:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I helped him, you know? Yeah.

Fr. Steve:

No, I think that's right. That, you know, when we become a source of division that -- and this might come across wrong, so I'll say, cause it's a podcast and you can say lots of things on podcasts -- there, there's a desire we want to have for what's right and what's true, but we don't want the way we go about that to undermine the message we're trying to convey. And Benedict talked about this when he talked about like, what does it mean to really express in the liturgy, the depth of what we're doing? And he said, we have to do this gradually. If we kind of approach things with rupture, like, you know, this is going wrong, let's flip the switch and kind of like get it the right way. You know, we may have a good end in mind, but the means we, we use to go about it or even that change undermines our goal. And I think that's what the holy father, Pope Francis, is saying there, as well as like, okay: even if we have a really good desire to evangelize people or to, you know, to make sure that theology is being expressed well or that people are being kind of cared for, if we do it in a way that causes this division that has this backbiting, or I tear someone down to get to this end, I'm undermining my goal.

Beth:

And it won't bears much fruit.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah. If it bears any. Yeah. So, let's talk about healthy ways to deal transition.

Beth:

Yeah, yeah I suppose we could touch on that before we wrap up

Fr. Steve:

I was going to say yelling and swearing are healthy ways to deal with that, but you had some better healthy ways to deal with it. So --

Beth:

Yeah. I, I think, you know, this isn't again, earth shattering, but I think keeping in mind the universal call to holiness in every season of transition, right? How might God be using this season of transition to invite me to a deeper relationship with him, a deeper surrender. I had this moment in high school, I was on a retreat and I was praying and it must've been some, maybe it was my senior year. I don't remember. But I had this vision when I was praying about, like, that I was standing on this giant ball, right. Probably the earth or something. And it was moving all around and I was upside down and I was turned around and everything was very disorienting, but that my feet were planted. My feet were firm, and it was like, the Lord was saying like, I am your firm foundation. Everything is moving, everything is changing, but I am your firm foundation. So fix your eyes -- fix your eyes on Jesus. Right? Fix your eyes on him. And that was --

Fr. Steve:

That'd be a good name for a podcast -- Eyes on Jesus.

Beth:

Yeah, I wonder if it would be. Yeah, yeah.

Fr. Steve:

No, sorry. I'm joking too much because it's just good to be in person. Yeah. But this universal call to holiness that, you know, God is, needs to be our foundation and that everything can be for the good if we trust him, even if the transition stinks. And I think about that, like even if it's not what we wanted, right. There can be transitions of someone being let go from a job, or having to move away. And certainly we know this in death, right, when we lose a parent or a loved one; like that's a transition that's really sad and that can be, can rock our world. But it is a tremendous gift of faith to say, all things work for the good, for those who love him. And that means that, you know, God is making me, I'll just say me, into the priest. He wants me to be into the disciple. He wants me to be through all of the brokenness I experienced in the world or all of the change, the transitions that are kind of exciting, but difficult. And same with you, Beth. Right? I know I've talked with a number of -- your kids are still young, your oldest confirmed,

Beth:

Fr. Steve:

okay, so well before confirmation, but just talking with parents as like kids grow up and they begin to move out, like the changing dynamic of a family and transition there, and that that can be a really challenging time. But our call to holiness is not meant to be static. It's meant to be dynamic, that we can be faithful to Jesus in all the changing circumstances.

Beth:

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think part of that for me is like moving through the day with expectancy. Yeah. I'm moving through every day with expectancy, expecting to see God expecting, to hear God, expecting moments of grace to happen. We were praying with the kids a couple of days ago and we were someone, you know, when kids have ideas and you're in per time, you generally try to accept whatever the idea is. You don't like, oh, let's do this. You're like, yeah. Okay. As long as it's not a bad thing. So one of the kids was like, well, let's just have time in silence and listen for God's voice. And I was like, yeah, great. Let's do it. Okay. I was like, yeah, sure. Great. And maybe that just means like, maybe you could just stop reading the book, like just fine. Great. So we're sitting in silence and my littlest one says, I see the hand of God, and all the kids open their eyes and they're looking around and I mean, I opened my eyes too. And I look around, I'm like, wait really serious? No, but that's just this expectancy, right? The expectant, expectancy of a child, even then they started saying, I hear God's voice. And I'm like, oh, I hope that's true. Like, yes, I keep listening to it. And you know, but I'm trying not to fill the silence. I am not the the voice of God in their lives, but I just think like, can we, is there a way that we can have that expectancy; especially in these seasons that are more vulnerable, let's be honest. Right? I mean, all the staff and all the parishes that are in wave, one of which I am one, right. There is a vulnerability of what will happen, where will we go? What will happen next? Who will, who will we even go with? You know, there's just, there's so many questions. Right. So, but how do we, how do we look with expectancy for the Lord? How do we yeah, just walk with him. Yeah.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah. I think of that as the virtue of hope in lots of ways, you know, hope's ultimate goal is looking towards heaven. But hope is also, you know, on the way there, that the same God who promised us us heaven while we know, you know, there's, there's the cross and sufferings we have to go through, like is a loving father who wants to like, not give his child a snake when he asks for an egg, or give his child a scorpion when he asks for something else.

Beth:

Bread?

Fr. Steve:

Probably bread, bread. Yeah. Yeah. But like a God who wants to give good things to his children. And I, that's beautiful when you talk about your own children kind of having that expectancy and that can be harder as we get older, it can be harder as we go through transitions and changes that God, just to know that like, yeah. So, I guess a couple of different categories here, all things work for the good, for those who love him. Yeah. But it's not just kind of grit and bear your teeth and get through. Right. Cause there's something good on the other side, like part of, part of the journey is really beautiful and God wants to give you great things. Yeah.

Beth:

I believe that I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Right? Yeah. We can, we can, we can have that expectancy, even though there is the cross. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Fr. Steve:

I have a friend of mine who has gone through a lot of challenges in her life, and she has the, she's one of a, she works in a parish. And she has this wonderful kind of phrase that she's kind of come back to and she's written about that goes, "You can do hard things." And I find that so encouraging. And so, you know, cause I know she's been through difficulties and challenges. But just her, her kind of approach is like, I know this is difficult, but you've got this, right? Like you were made to be tough. You were made to endure. You're not, you're not porcelain. Right. Like you have to be, you have to have bubble wrap around all the time. Like you can, you can do hard things and hard things are going to make you -- yeah. They're going to make you happier. Yeah. Not in a Palladian way that like I have to earn my way there, but that God wants me to cooperate with what he's doing. And and that's part of the call to mission that we have. He wants to use me to bring the Gospel into the world and you know what that's going to mean -- I have to be kind of molded. I have to have my will formed to his, and that's where oftentimes transitions come into play.

Beth:

Yeah, I think you're right. And, and if, if you can do hard things is overwhelming or discouraging, then may I suggest holding a rosary while you sleep asking Mary to help. That's my softer way of saying I'm so tired, Lord, I don't know! Mary, will you help? Yeah. I think another thing, another way to kind of think about holiness and just transitions is just striving for self-awareness. This feels like a good season, right. Or we can all just focus a little bit more on being aware of ourselves, both like noticing the feelings that we're experiencing, but also like getting to know what are the unique gifts that I have been given. Right. Because -- and maybe I'm always seeing every moment as an opportunity for this -- but isn't every moment an opportunity to consider how has the Lord gifted me for this very moment? Right. And so even in transition, right. And especially as a lot of us, think about our jobs changing potentially, or tweaking slightly, or collaborating more than we have in the past. Right. We have to know our gifts. We have to know our strengths. If we're going to collaborate across parishes, we have to know those more and we should be doing that anyway. And then I think also just within that self-awareness, prayers of renunciation -- recognizing the ways that we're attacked, recognizing the ways that Satan tries to pull us down and renouncing those. Yeah, I think that's another thing I've found to be helpful.

Fr. Steve:

That's a really good point that you make about keeping in mind that it's a spiritual battle we're in, right. We're not just being asked. So I'll take families to parishes. Here is an idea. This isn't just a perfunctory kind of move we're being asked to make. Right? It's the, archbishop is kind of our, our shepherd is telling us, okay, this is what it means for us to be more on mission, to have a structure in place that can prepare us for mission. And you know, this is the grace of the Synod. I'm fully convinced that this Families of Parishes is is a fruit of Synod 16. And if, if we're going to kind of be ready for the challenges of the 21st century, the challenges where we're going to see in the, in the years and decades ahead, I think we have to keep in mind the fact that like, we have the grace of God on our side and we have, we have enemies. And that not everyone who disagrees is a tool of the evil one. But, but there are, there is a spiritual calculus to this, right? Like Jesus' victory comes through the cross. And that's how he fights a spiritual battle. And we have to be willing to take up our cross, the cross of transitions, the cross of challenges and kind of working through what we're being asked to do, in order to accomplish the spiritual victory the Lord wants to win through us and with us in his church here in Detroit. It's not just a strategic decision. It's not just a practical reality. It's going to come down to each of us being faithful in taking up our part of the spiritual --being part of the spiritual army of praying, sacrificing and, and exercising the virtues, I think. And you've kind of pointed to the virtue of hope is, is key here for us to be part of that.

Beth:

Yeah, yeah. I think it is. Yeah. And I think also, and this is maybe odd to put it under holiness, but I think another part of growing in holiness in the season is asking open-ended questions to learn more, you know, I think holiness, as we think just means like meekly accepting whatever is said and not inquiring further, or conversely just complaining being a source of division. But it is possible that there could be something in between right? Of asking open-ended questions, the questions that are really asked in, in order to learn more. Right. and taking those questions to the person who could answer them and not the five people around me who also don't know that I can, you know -- and I realized that's also perhaps an imperfect solution because often the people who we could ask, they don't know right now. Right. So each season of transition like this one, at least in the archdiocese, you know -- but I think there is still a place for holiness with asking those questions, and sharing concerns and being open and honest with the person that you should be open and honest with. Right.

Fr. Steve:

I think that's a great point. You know, we see it in the stories and Scripture, and I don't know if we've talked about it here, I've talked about it with someone else. Just the different ways people ask questions of Jesus, right? Some Pharisees ask him questions to trip him up. And so we hear some people ask them questions to prove their own righteousness. Right. But then there's others who are like, like Nicodemus, Nicodemus coming to the Lord. Like how can I be born again? What does that mean? Right. And Jesus loves those questions. It's like, I'm trying to understand. Right. Right. I'm not doing it in a way to kind of poke you in the eye and say like -- or to trick you, right. Not being a jerk or I'm not, you know, kind of being a little too cutesy and saying, oh, how, how is this going to work, but to ask authentically. And I think that that's a great part of holiness. It's not just complete passivity no, it it's an active participation with God's will. And that means like, Lord, I'm trying to understand this right. I'm obedient. I believe you. But I know you want me to use my intellect in the gifts you've given me.

Beth:

Absolutely, and then I guess that's all, those are all the thoughts I have for holiness. But then my other thoughts for transition would be like, considering that, in the season of transition, we're called to consider the universal call to mission, and recognize that, you know, the transitions that we're experiencing in our world with the pandemic --with, I mean, every business industry seems to be disrupted -- with all of those transitions, just recognizing many of our contemporaries again, are living through these same challenges without the hope we have in Jesus. So you know, is there a way that God is using this season in our own lives to shake us out of our age old habits of hanging out with people who look like us, sound like us, think like us pray like us, right? To spend more time with people who are different from us to listen to people. Is there a way that God is calling us to, to prioritize just relationships? I could go on, but what thoughts do you have Fr. Steve? He has a very thoughtful look on his face.

Fr. Steve:

Oh I do? Oh? Okay. Yeah. I was, yeah, this call to mission that, that we're -- we get to participate in whether ordained or lay brothers and sisters who do this full time. I think how great it is that, you know, we get to spend our gifts and talents to build up the kingdom. And just as people who work in secular industries are trying to figure out how to reach 21st century consumers or how to market through new media platforms or how to anticipate new habits. People will have, like -- we should be no less committed to using our gifts and talents and whatever we can glean from the world to build up the kingdom of Christ. And it can be hard and it's okay for us to try to do difficult things. Right. You can do hard things. And I know we can, you know, we can -- this kind of gets in between the healthy-unhealthy -- I think one of the unhealthy ways can be just to focus on the challenges and the problems, and you talked about this with expectancy, some of the healthy things are like what we're called to in Unleash the Gospel, like, think about what the church will be like if we live this out. Right. So like, think about what successful mission is. Not just for the world to come, but for here and now. And I think that encourages me, and I think can encourage many of us instead of just saying, okay, the transition, the difficulties we have, like here are the list of problems. Instead, to recalibrate to say, here are all the opportunities, and here's what it could be, right? Like people who have never known Jesus and who are struggling with addiction, loneliness, isolation a life without meaning can suddenly have something profoundly deep to ground their life in. And Jesus wants them to have that intimacy with him. That's given to us in the gift of the Holy Spirit when we're baptized and when we live our life on mission, and you and I, Beth, and all of our wonderful listeners here in the Archdiocese of Detroit, get to be part of that.

Fr. Steve:

And so it's hard work. It's difficult work, but it's hard work because we're trying to do something great and God wants to do something great in us and through us. And so it's okay. And we're going to make some missteps, we're going to fail at times, we're going to do something that doesn't work perfectly. And that's okay. That's all part of the journey of getting there. But we can't be we can't be afraid of what the challenges might be. And so I think that call to mission comes with it a little bit of the excitement of what it can be. If we are faithful to the Lord.

Beth:

Isn't it freeing to have the -- instead of just focusing on -- it feels like, it feels like all we do, a lot of what we do, is write down all the problems on this big blackboard. And then we just look at the problems, even in the church, right? Well, you know, vocations and, you know, and, and these are good things. We need to look at them, but then right, the, the difference you're proposing is instead of just looking at those, we dream and imagine like, what could the church be if we accept who we are and who we're called to be? I feel like a lot of it comes down to our identity. I've been doing a small group with a group of women, and I'm focusing on the missionary identity of the church and the missionary -- our missionary identity. And I was reading also about the Titanic and how you know, so there were 18 lifeboats that had 400 --

Fr. Steve:

The movie? Not the movie Titanic, the ride.

Beth:

No, not the movie, the real Titanic that sank.

Fr. Steve:

The ride? Oh, no, the real Titanic. Okay. Got it.

Beth:

hout filling them. There were: 1500

Fr. Steve:

Yeah. And when we get caught up in the unhealthy habits, the unhealthy practices we use up a lot of time and energy and resources with that, right? So complaining is a problem because it drains the life out of you, and it drains the life out of other people. And there can be -- there's times when we do have to look at the problems and evaluate and say, do we need to do this? But if all we're doing is complaining, if all we're doing is nit-picking, if all we're doing is saying like, man, look how much work it's going to be going forward, we are sucking the lives out of life, out of ourselves and other people. And we're kind of using up all that spare capacity in our identity as lifeboats to then go do the work we're meant to do.

Beth:

Very true. All the energy has gone. So tired, no energy left.

Fr. Steve:

There's a podcast. I listened to very sparingly called Hidden Brain on NPR. And they talked about how people make bad decisions in crisis. And they said, because you're not thinking straight. And there's also talked about like, they were talking about cycles of poverty that can happen, but it was also talking about, you know, people in crisis often make bad decisions because you're not able to kind of understand all the aspects that you have to deal with. And I think this happens in our church oftentimes, right? So one of the funny things they pointed to is, people who struggle making friends then try so hard to make friends that they can be off-putting, right? That like that kind of, you can feel desperate, and that can put, that can be off-putting to other people that that can apply itself in lots of different ways. And I think as a church, that can be a challenge sometimes too, right? We look at all the problems we have, and then we just get stressed about all the problems, instead of saying like, no, we need to, like, there are solutions, we need the virtue of hope and we need to start making progress. And times of transition can really be paralyzing for, for some of us. So I think it's really good to talk about these good ways to deal with it. Keep in mind our call to holiness, which is intimacy with God, and which is finding our our identity in him. And then the fact that God -- that intimacy drives us out in mission.

Beth:

Well, since we're talking about transitions today, do you know what I thought I would do? Which makes so much sense? I thought I would ask you about the different names for groupings of animals.

Fr. Steve:

Oh, is this our fun little -- end of the episode game?

Beth:

And it really drives home the transition topic, because I've transitioned from that topic.

Fr. Steve:

And you have transitioned so smoothly! I'm not going to complain about it.

Beth:

Yeah. And that's not what you're doing right now? Alright sir!

Fr. Steve:

The passive-aggressive complaining can be a very helpful way --

Beth:

Yeah. I see what's happening there. Oh, can it? Really helpful? Yeah. All right. Well, he's talking a big talk you guys, he thinks he's going to get all of these, right.

Fr. Steve:

All of them plus one.

Beth:

All of them plus one, yes, that is what you said. So, we're going to go ahead and start. Yes. So what would you call a group of bats?

Fr. Steve:

Group of bats is called a calvern of bats.

Beth:

Calvern? What is that? No, a colony, cloud or a camp. So I can't give you credit half credit. Half credit. Okay. Well, I'll do another easy one for you then. Bees -- what, what would you call a group of bees?

Fr. Steve:

A hive.

Beth:

Hive of bees that seems like it should count, but they're saying a swarm. So okay. What about Buffalo? A group of Buffalo?

Fr. Steve:

It's a herd of Buffalo herd.

Beth:

It says a gang.

Fr. Steve:

What are you on? Like British expressions for animals?

Beth:

Hey you gave me permission to look this up, and I don't have to say what source!

Fr. Steve:

Is this like the Australian version of this?

Beth:

No, it is not Australian. I really don't think, but it could be. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. A gang of Buffalo. I feel like I would just say Buffalo. If there was a group of Buffalo, I would say, look at the Buffalo. I don't think I would use a different word.

Fr. Steve:

I would say a herd of Buffalo, but --

Beth:

And you'd be embarrassed to be wrong, because now you know it's supposed to be a gang.

Fr. Steve:

That's how, that's how I've heard people say it.

Beth:

Wow. That was so bad, gosh, can we edit out that horrible pun? All right. Let's see. How about a group of fish?

Fr. Steve:

A herd, or a school of fish!

Beth:

Right, there you go, he's on the board folks!

Fr. Steve:

That was like the tee-ball version of it.

Beth:

Okay. This one, this one's -- I don't, I don't, I've never heard of this: jellyfish. A group of jellyfish. Oh, that's called. Get out of the water. Yeah.

Fr. Steve:

Yeah. It's called you're toast. Make an act of contrition.

Beth:

Yeah, I think so.

Fr. Steve:

A...give me the first letter

Beth:

S. I'll give you another letter: M.

Fr. Steve:

A smart?

Beth:

No, that's not bad though. A smack. What is that -- a smack?

Fr. Steve:

Do they kind of like smack the water as they go? They do that pulsating move?

Beth:

I have no idea. Okay. So maybe that's it. Yeah. These seem hard. I'm going to give you another one. Turkeys.

Fr. Steve:

We talked about this and I thought it was a gobble of turkeys. And now I'm trying to remember.

Beth:

See? I gave you the answer; you said you were going to get them all right plus one. This is your plus one, bud.

Fr. Steve:

A gobble? It's not a gobble of turkeys? It should be a gobble.

Beth:

But why? Because they say that? Is a group of cows a moo? Is that right? I Don't think so. I don't think so.

Fr. Steve:

Wow, I'm getting a lot of shade here. A...

Beth:

A rafter, which I don't even feel like that's a real thing, but I've looked that one up pretty extensively.

Fr. Steve:

Did you know that Ron?

Beth:

No, nobody knows. It's a rafter. If you use any of these terms, you would be corrected socially. They'd be like, what are you talking about?

Fr. Steve:

Give me a couple more, because I have heard of some of them.

Beth:

All right. Yeah. Fair. These may be all very hard ones. Wolves.

Fr. Steve:

A pack of wolves.

Beth:

There you go. There you go. That seems good. How about a group of tigers?

Fr. Steve:

A pride of tigers.

Beth:

I'll take it. Yeah.

Fr. Steve:

What do you mean you'll take it?

Beth:

I mean I'll take it. Is it right? You think it's right? Yeah. They're calling it a streak.

Fr. Steve:

Like she's giving out of her largess, I shall allow that, I call that the right answer.

Beth:

It says here a streak of tigers. I'm just saying I switched sites. These are all the same version. No, No. Well folks perhaps next time, if you'd like to tune in again, I will be humiliated next month. With our closing quiz!

Fr. Steve:

You did much better on cheeses than I did.

Beth:

I did, but they were a little easier perhaps. But you came in strong. I felt like you had studied this up. You know, I, I don't know. Well folks, thank you for being a part of our podcast. Transitions are hard. But the Lord has good things for us in seasons of transition, right? He speaks, he is near. So let's walk through these seasons of transition with expectancy and look, look to see where he's moving in our lives. Thanks for tuning in for another Encounter Grow Witness podcast. Please be sure to like, and subscribe and share this with a friend. We'd love more people to be in the conversation.

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