This Destroys Your Sleep | Feat. Daniel Ebbett

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In this week's Wellness Wednesday episode, Evan has the honor of speaking with Daniel Ebbett, the founder and CEO of Block Blue Light which is a premier supplier of blue light blocking products across the globe. Daniel has over 9 years of work and research into the field of blue light with regards to how it can both benefit and harm our health. In this episode Evan and Daniel discuss:

-What is blue light

-Is blue light harmful

-What is LED flickering

-Why artificial light is causing eye strain and headaches

-How can you protect yourself from harmful blue light

-Why not all blue light blocking glasses are created equally

-Best tips and tricks for better sleep and eye health

This episode is an absolute must listen given the amount of time we all spend on computers and indoors under artificial lighting. Our biology has not had the opportunity to adapt to the rapidly developing technology that has made us more productive. This has serious repercussions for our health and demands our immediate action to live at our highest potentials.

Do everything with good intentions and connect to your elements.

Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only, it is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. Evan Roberts is not a medical professional and this podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. Statements and views expressed on this show are not medical advice, this podcast, including Evan Roberts and any guests on the show, disclaims responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained in this episode. If you think you have a medical problem please consult a medical professional.

everybody?

Welcome back to the Elemental Evans Show.

Today I have a amazing guest with me today.

He's going to cover all things blue light and what it is doing to your health.

We have with us today Daniel Ebot.

He's the founder and CEO of Block Blue Light, which is one of the world's premier

suppliers of blue light blocking products.

Welcome to the show, Daniel.

Awesome to be here.

Evan, looking forward to, um, getting into all things light and

health and sharing, sharing a lot of my knowledge to your listeners.

Yeah, absolutely.

No, thank you for coming on.

I know, uh, obviously being that you're based, uh, and we're gonna cover

this, but being that you're based out in New Zealand, uh, I'm really happy

that we were able to get these times lined up and, and get this show going.

So thank you very much for coming on.

Yeah, awesome.

Yeah.

So, uh, to kind of kick the show off, I'd love to ask a few questions

just to allow the listeners to get a better idea of who you are.

So starting off, uh, I already kind of spoiled this, but, uh, where are you from?

Or sorry, where were you born?

Where was I born?

Yep.

So born in little while with New Zealand here.

Um, been here most of my life.

Actually did a stint over in Canada and also stint in Australia, but ultimately

ended up back home here in, in the small, little, you know, country of New Zealand.

Not a bad place to be though, right?

No, absolutely.

. That's awesome.

Uh, alright.

And then, uh, what's a favorite book of yours?

Ooh, um, I'm gonna go with just on topic is why we Sleep by Matthew Walker.

Mm, that's that's good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a, he's, he's, he's, uh, yeah, he's been a big, um,

Expert in the space for sleep.

And I've learned a lot, obviously I've digested a lot of different

people's protective on sleep and what's impacting it.

And he, he's got, he's just got an amazing knowledge on, on that subject and he has

a, that book just really breaks it down.

Cause um, yeah, when you just think about it, sleep is really an

amazing thing that we don't really completely understand all of, all of

the reasons why we do actually sleep.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I mean, I know we're gonna dive really deep on sleep, but it is one of those

things that I think is so easily overlooked, yet at the same time, it's

like, uh, I, I heard someone say that if it wasn't an absolute necessity

of ours, then we probably would've evolved out of it as a species.

Cuz why else would you be unconscious for like eight hours of the day?

Right.

, that's it.

Exactly.

Yes.

Uh, and then last one is, what's a favorite quote of.

Uh, yep.

This one on topic as well.

Um, so this is by a neurosurgeon in in the US and we'll probably actually talk about

him quite a lot during this interview.

Um, Dr.

Jack Cruz, um, one of the, one of the things he said very earlier

on in my discovery and, and going down this rabbit hole of light was,

health is about light, not food.

That's what he said.

And um, and just to kind of back that up with, the reason why I like that

quote is in particularly even still in today's world, when a lot of people get

so fixated on what we're eating, and this is the gateway to optimal health, but

there are some rather, I'm not saying that, um, what you eat doesn't certainly

impact it, but there's some bigger things at play here that have significant.

Impacts on like our biology and how we interact in our environment.

And light is one of those, which I'm sure we're gonna discuss a lot today.

But, um, for me, in my own health journey, that was a big, a big

aha moment cuz I was so fixated on, I'm not doing the food right.

I'm like, oh, I need to be like paleo or carnival and I, and like in,

there's all these food gurus out there.

And so Jack personally kind of hate his bit of a hate hates on them because

they, they don't, whilst they are so fixated on like different things of

what you eat, they, they just completely disregard other aspects of what.

You need to be healthy.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

No, I, it's super good that you bring that up because even in my own

health journey, it's been a lot of learning and understanding that there

are a lot of elements to health.

It's not just food, it's not just exercise.

Um, it's, you know, as important as sleep is, it's not even just sleep, right?

Like, there's so many parts.

And even, like you were just saying, uh, the health is about light, not food.

Uh, that's really interesting and, and I'm excited to get a little

bit more into that for sure.

But I'm glad to, to see that you have that kind of a perspective because I, I like to

have people who are very well rounded and, and understanding that like health has

so many different, you know, sides to it.

And, uh, it's really good for us to understand all of those different aspects.

So I really appreciate that quote really.

Um, okay.

So let's, uh, jump into what Blue Light is and what it's all about.

So, if you would like to maybe just start off with a pretty general,

uh, explanation of kind of what blue light is, what junk blue light is,

or natural blue light, or however you wanna, uh, kind of define those.

Uh, if, if you would like to take the floor on that, I would love to

hear your, uh, definitions of those.

Yeah, sure.

So if we, if we break it down in the most simplest terms, uh, blue light.

So light is measured in wavelengths, which are, um, the

measurement is called nanometers.

So blue light is, is a wavelength, um, range at ranges from 400 to 500 nanos.

So that's quite a, and so when we look at it, look at a scale of, of of light,

we go from the colors of the rainbow.

So we go blue into green, yellow, orange, and red.

So red's right down the opposite end of the, um, of the spectrum to blue.

And so we find blue light.

In nature and we find it artificially.

So in nature, um, blue light is balanced.

It's from the sun, we get it, but we get it with all the other colors

of, of, of spectrum, including the infrared spectrum and the UV spectrum.

So when you're outside, blue light is ultimately is very good for us.

Um, blue light is responsible for this, um, stimulation of neurotransmitters.

So dopamine and serotonin are activated through the exposure to blue light.

So that's heavily regulating our mood and our energy levels.

The issue is, is we don't get much of that blue light.

We don't get enough of the blue light from outside in full spectrum light.

We, in our modern lifestyles, we spend a lot of time indoors, so we're

mainly under artificial light sources.

And the issue with artificial light sources is the blue light in that.

Very narrow spectrum of blue light and very void of all the other color colors.

So it's not even a full spectrum of blue light.

It's very much a very short, intense spike of blue light at around the

midway point of 455 nanometers.

And so the issue is, is the lower down the spectrum, the higher the

energy in, in the light waves.

And so when you have blue light and isolation, it's very damaging and causes

a lot of oxidative stress into our cells.

It's not damaging and causing oxidative stress in our cells when we have

an imbalance with the red light.

Cause it's almost like red light is the opposite.

So it's, it's, it's regenerative, it's healing, and it can help restore balance.

So the issue is it's completely out of balance and we're getting.

Blue light from most of, most of the light sources now that we have indoors.

So we've got l e d lighting, we've got screens, um, we've got TVs,

phones, computers, everything now is an l e d light source.

And ultimately most conventional l e d light sources are very, very narrow

bandwidth of that blue light spectrum.

So at a really high level, I guess ultimately, yeah, it's not, not

that all blue light is bad, like you should avoid it at any cost.

It's, it's all about the, the type of blue light you're getting and the,

the amount and the time of the day.

Because that's the other thing that comes into play here is we've evolved to

receive different amounts of light and different spectrums of light at different

times of the day, because ultimately the light comes in and we receive that as a

signal when our brain is then ultimately undergoing different biological processes

based on the light it's receiving.

So I hope that kind of gives us like a real high level kind of view on it all.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Um, so pretty much to just break that down is like anything that is artificial,

like any light that you're receiving that's essentially not from the sun is

more than likely going to be, uh, kind of not so good for you, especially if

it's coming from a mobile device, right?

Or an l e D type light.

And then the blue light that you would receive outside from the sun

is going to be much more beneficial because it is accompanied with

all these other types of lights.

Um, as well as obviously we've evolved with the sun, so, uh, naturally our bodies

are quite in unison with it as well.

Um, I had a question in there.

Uh, when you wake up in the morning and you go outside and get the

sunlight on you, is it the blue light specifically that is helping to set

that circadian rhythm in the morning?

It is.

Well it's not just the blue light though.

It is that that is a key factor cuz the blue light is what will stimulate.

Cortisol in adrenaline, which is our wakefulness hormone.

So you're supposed to get a cortisol response in this in the

morning where that comes up and that will suppress your melatonin.

So ultimately, if you feel, if you wake up and you feel like real

tired and groggy, generally that means you've got a low cortisol.

Um, and you've still got quite high melatonin.

So that blue light stimulation in the morning where we actually clear off

the melatonin and rise your cortisol.

Um, but it's not just the blue light in that because ultimately in the mornings we

see a lot of infrared light coming through in the, in the light wavelengths and

infrared light is also very, very good.

Um, primes your skin and your eyes for the UV light you're

gonna receive later in the day.

Um, and ultimately also infrared light is what helps stimulate, um,

serotonin production via infrared light interacting with the cells.

Serotonin then converts to melatonin in the absence of blue light at night . So

it's quite an important factor to make sure that you're getting not only the

blue light from that morning stimulation to increase your cortisol, but also um,

the infrared light as well was actually gonna help you sleep better at night.

Interesting.

Okay.

Gotcha.

So essentially that blue light in the morning is helping to, uh, like you

said, clear out that melatonin that might be sticking around and helping to

spike your natural levels of cortisol in the morning to kind of help get

you up and going as well as you said that serotonin later in the evening

will be converted into melatonin and help you go to bed essentially.

Yes.

So if you did, if like for example, if you didn't get, if you had suboptimal

levels of serotonin, you'll have a suboptimal levels of melatonin no

matter how well your light hygiene practices are in the evening.

So it's kind of twofold, like light hygiene is also about like,

You've gotta set yourself up.

What you're doing during the daytime is setting yourself up for how you are gonna

actually sleep in the evening as well.

So, you know, people get so fixated on potentially like, Hey, I've got

block blue light at night that's gonna make me increase my melatonin levels.

It's like, yeah, but there's a bit more to the story is like, well if

you haven't done the thing, haven't actually built the raw material that

you need to create melatonin, or you'll still have suboptimal levels.

Um, yeah.

So that, that, that is a very important, um, fact that the other thing just

to, to, to look about in the morning and that that morning light you're

getting in is, it's an anchor, it's a circadian rhythm, it's anchor point.

So, Ultimately we are designed, the human biology system is designed

on a 24 hour cycle, um, which is called our circadian rhythm.

So ultimately we've got a whole bunch of different, um, processes that the

body undergoes over a 24 hour cycle.

And it's using, ultimately using light as it's, um, as the, as a clock is the time.

So light is coming from the sun and different forms of different wavelengths

at different times of the day.

Essentially, we're taking in those light signals and our clock is

being synced up, off, off the sun.

So getting that morning light in and.

Every morning as it continuously anchors and sets that circadian

rhythm so it doesn't get out of whack and get outta sync.

Cuz when it gets outta sync, that's where we start to see either circadian shifts

where like your whole clock is shifted and you can't go to sleep at night or you,

you are waking too early in the morning.

Cuz these are all factors that come into play.

So the morning light, very important to continuously check in, sync it.

So every morning your brain knows, oh yep, it's the morning, it's,

it's, you know, around sunrise.

It's cool and I'm gonna check in the next time, 24 hours later just to

make sure we're back and sync again.

Gotcha.

Okay.

And then also I've heard that.

Being indoors as opposed to outdoors?

Uh, there is a difference in terms of like lumens, right?

Like being indoors, like receiving light through windows is actually

going to make it lower, a lower level of lumens as opposed to going

outside, even on like a cloudy day.

Uh, you will just receive a higher level of light.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

So this is quite an interesting one, the, the, the discussion of lumens and

actually this discussion of windows and what kind of light you receive indoors.

So, um, lumens is a, is a measurement of the brightness

or, or the level of lighting.

So indoors, uh, the typical home indoors will be around 500

to a thousand lumens of light.

Now, to put that in perspective, you go outdoors on a cloudy.

Overcast day, it's around 10,000.

Wow.

Uh, eight to 10,000.

On a sunny day, it can be upwards of 30, 40, 50,000 lumens.

Wow.

So it's, it's not only the, the, the type of light we're receiving indoors

versus outdoors, it's, the intensity is not enough to stimulate into the

eyes, into the body, those processes.

So we're indoors, the whole levels brought right down.

A common, a common side effect of this can be what's called sad

or seasonal effective disorder.

Essentially, that's a depressive, um, symptom, a hundred percent governed by

light . It's the only one out there.

You think about like how, how complex the disease of depression is.

Well, s a d is like, there's, there's not so much complexity behind it.

It's like it's purely brought on by lack of light coming

into the eyes, into the body.

So that's why we commonly see s a D in winter.

Um, Because light cycles are shorter, so there's not enough time to get

outside, get enough of that light.

And other places in the world, like the UK and stuff where they're, you know, the

weather isn't ultimately the sun is less and people aren't really going outdoors.

So the lumens factor is, a big, big part of that is you're, you're not

stimulating the, the production of the, the serotonin and the dopamine.

Cuz they're actually, as I I've probably alluded to earlier, is their, um, blue

light is stimulating the serotonin and dopamine production in the brain.

And, um, depression is generally, those neurotransmitters are low and they're

not being stimulated enough so that the, um, your lux and lumens is too low.

Um, but the other factor is, is like you said, like through windows.

Interestingly, all the infrared infrared light doesn't pass through windows.

Um, and I think UVB is actually also block from windows.

So whilst you get natural.

Light in, that's natural full spectrum, but it's not only visible spectrum.

So the invisible spectrums are actually not, um, brought through

into, into an indoor environment.

And, um, having infrared light is very, is also very, very beneficial

and we're very, um, depleted and we don't get enough of that as well

from living the indoor lifestyle.

So it's gone a twofold as you, you, the spectrums are completely outta whack,

but then also the whole intensity of the light we're in is far, far

lower than what we would be if we were living an outdoor lifestyle.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Yeah, no, this is super fascinating for me.

Um, I, I'm, I'm really like almost just taking mental notes here.

Like, I'm gonna go back and, and write some of this down.

This is really, uh, excellent stuff, Daniel.

So, um, kind of moving into the blue, the artificial blue light in

terms of, let's say, uh, some of the.

Health implications that it can create as well as what's this l e d flicker

and kind of what kind of a effect does that have on our health as well?

Yeah, so Flicker is an interesting one, and it's becoming a lot more

of a problem in today's world.

Um, so the easiest way to think about, um, flicker is it's not generally

visible, like there is visible flicker, which you'll literally see something

flicking on and off, like a strobe light.

Um, but most of us, most of the flicker we're exposed to is what

would be called invisible flicker.

And so what that is, is, um, most light sources are turning off and on very,

very quickly, around 120 times a second.

And the reason they're doing that is, um, the way to think of like our modern

lighting source or l e d lighting versus the older type of lighting, which

was the incandescence or the halogen.

So incandescent and halogen lighting was, um, what we call heat source lighting.

So what that means is, um, electricity was coming in and it was heating

a filament and it's essentially, it's, it's producing a lot of heat

and that's producing light off it.

Um, versus, so I kind of like to say that's like an analog

type of lighting source.

And now we've moved to like digital lighting, which is l e d.

So it's a little diode, it receives electricity, it's on, if

it doesn't receive it, it's off.

So it's on or off, on or off.

Um, versus the heat sort, it's heated up.

So if it's got electricity, it's hot, it's on, but if it

does, if it loses electricity, it doesn't instantly turn off.

Right?

Like if it's gonna take a few seconds or, you know, for that filament to cool back

down and, and not no longer produce light.

And so the, the actual electricity sources we have coming into

our home is called AC current.

Which means alternating current.

And the reason it's alternating is because it's gotta come all the way

from the substation into your home.

So what they have to do to, to push it down that distance is pulse it

down the line very quickly so it can reach much further distances.

And so what they, so, um, most common countries will have a 50 or

60 hertz, uh, power grid, which means it's pulsing, it, it double that.

So 120 times a second down the line.

So when it comes into your home, into your l e d light bulb or screen or any

l e d light sources, when it's got, when it's pulsed, it's on, and when

it's not, when it's off, it's off.

So it's going on off very, very quickly now.

So the older type of lighting didn't turn off.

It just, it was able to absorb, you know, the, the pulsing because the

filament never fully turned off.

So there was this very slight fluctuation in it that you still wouldn't see.

So there is technically still flicker in the older lights, I suppose.

It's not a, it's not as pronounced with it being a hundred percent

on and a hundred percent off.

When it's doing that, whilst you don't see it, your brain is

processing it as it's, it's working over time, essentially going, well.

This, this light is just constantly flickering on and off.

And what that, what that does is it will cause neurological stress on the brain.

It will increase, it's essentially making it work overtime.

So that's where we see things like headaches, eye strains,

migraines start to kick in.

Just the feeling of like being like just exhausted.

Like people kind of think when they go to work, right?

And then they're working all day and they, at the end of the day, they feel drain.

Like I used to work in an office and it was a very common thing.

People like, oh, I just feel like, you know, exhausted at the end of the day.

And a lot of that is actually brought on by the constant flicker that

their brain is just dealing with.

For eight hours straight from not only just the screens that they're

looking directly in front of, but all the lighting that's overhead as well.

So yeah, it's a, it is a big problem.

Um, we, we sit there and get very so focused on, oh, blue light's the

problem, it's all the blue light that's causing my eye strain and my

headaches and all these other things.

But it's kind of twofold because you, you throw flicker into the mix

and it's just actually making, it's, it's just as much of a problem as

the spectrum being exposed to as.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

So, yeah, uh, really it's, it's not just that blue light, but also that

flicker that's really doing a double fold kind of impact on the eyes.

And I, and I know what you're talking about because I too, have worked at

a desk job and, uh, I used to get a lot of, um, a lot of eye strain,

especially up in my brow area.

And, uh, it was, yeah, just super annoying and kind of like you needed to like close

your eyes and just go lay down for a bit, is usually what I would experience.

But in terms of this, you know, getting away from the l e d or the flicker,

you know, or negating that effect is the best thing to do is go back

to those old school white bulbs, or would it be to, um, you know, just

not use any l e d at all or do blue light blocking glasses help with that?

What's, what is, uh, some of the tools we could use for that?

Yeah, so this is a tricky one because we've, it's been a big shift from.

The removal of incandescent and halogen light bulbs and, and moving over to l e d.

And so this has been, and it's, it is literally at a point where I think it's

almost like a black market to try and find these older type of lightings, cuz it's

been, it's been banned, like in the US I don't think you're allowed to even import

them or sell them or anything like that.

And so this has all been brought on, on the premise of, um, The energy

efficiency, the sustainability, um, it's better for the planet sort of thing.

Um, they're more, they consume less energy.

They have to be replaced less often.

So the, the the, um, the carbon footprint on l e d lighting is significantly less

than the incandescent lighting and halogen

The issue with that is like, I get it.

I'm like, okay, yep, I get it.

But like, hold on a minute here.

Like, what good is having a a, a planet that you've looked after when the people

living on it are now sick and you are literally going, cool, what we've done

for the planet is awesome, but what we've ultimately done in, and we've

completely disregarded the shift to this different type of light source and what

it's actually impacting on our health.

Yeah, I think, I think it's a bit, there needs to be an approach where we look

at it from twofold and go, well, how do we make sure that we're ensuring our,

you know, the footprint on the planet?

And what we're doing there is we're looking after it, but at the

same time we're also looking after the people that are living on it.

And not only just the people is is the, the animals and everything,

cuz they're all affected by light just as much as we are.

Right.

Um, so it's, it's a very interesting one.

Um, and that's kind of what that's what what I've been like, that's kind of

like the mission we've been on, right?

Is like, how do we, how do we solve this problem because, um, you know, you know,

we need to look at more, uh, energy efficient ways to live and make sure

we're not consuming too much resource.

And ultimately what we've learned is it's, the issue isn't like we.

That we use l e d.

So l e d is just a technology, which is a light emitting diode.

Right?

And they can be created in all different ways.

And it's ultimately the way that they're consumed in conventional

ways in society is, is the problem.

So it's, and it's, it's, we're at a point now where you can't, it's, it's so,

um, embedded into the modern lifestyle.

You can't avoid it.

The only way you would avoid it is literally going out off grid into the

middle of nowhere and not interacting with society , which ultimately it's

like, is that, is that a way of living?

Right?

So it's like, okay, how do we, how do we look at the problem and then

make it so we can interface with the modern world, but it have less impact

on our health in the way we feel And.

And it's possible.

It is possible.

And that's what we're, we're looking at.

So we're like, we're, we're, we're like, you can use the l e d technology,

but let's like look at how we can alter the spectral output of it,

making it more aligned with the natural spectrum we get from the sun.

Um, let's look at the flicker issue and how can we resolve

that that can be resolved.

We, and it's, it's a cost factor.

Um, so when we, when we look at, so we've actually created light source that is

flicker free and it's a, it's a quite a difficult one to do so because what

you're gonna ultimately do is take in that ultimate alternate and current and

convert it into a direct current source.

So the LEDs, the diodes themselves and not receiving a pulsing light.

It just requires a more technology and more, um, cost in the actual bowl,

which will have, like, it's got an advanced alternator in there, which

will convert that and buffer the electricity and give it a direct source.

So, It would be nice to see this more hitting the mainstream, but ultimately

I think we're in, its, IM empathy where we haven't, it takes, you know, the

cycle for technology to catch up to like how it's impacting our health.

Takes quite a number of years.

And I was, I started, I started in this, in this industry in the lightning

health stuff like nine years ago, eight years ago was when we first

started selling outburst product.

And even just watching what's happened in the last eight years, a and the

how, how, how we're seeing the rapid, um, advancement in technology, but

also just the awareness as well.

Like when I started doing the stuff eight years ago, people just thought I was mad.

They were just like, what are you, like, you know, the way, the way I

started there was these big giant like just, um, safety glasses and

wearing them around and stuff, and.

People just, yeah, it certainly wasn't a thing that people were really buying

into, but like, you kind of fast forward today, like at least most people that

are kind of like conscious of health and natural health and how they can perform

and feel better kind of know that it's a problem and they kind of like, okay, I,

I get it somewhat and I'm, I'm open to listening to how we can solve the problem.

I think we need to get, we need to go one step further though, and it needs to

start breaking into a little bit more of the, the mainstream discussion, right?

Because at this, at this point in time, it's not, and there's a bit

of, there's a bit of pushback where it's like, oh no, it's not a thing.

There's no research on it, and it's not, it's not harmful to us.

And it's like, well, I, the research is actually staying, it's taking, it's

taking a while to come out because it's not like these problems, you, you

introduce this light source and then within, it's, it's over the long term

we're starting to see these effects and see the strain on the health system.

We're seeing the, the rise in eye problems and sleep problems and all

that sort of starting to creep in now.

We're kind of like five, six years in for, from really infiltrating

our lifestyles with l e d lighting.

Yeah.

So Yeah, that's, uh, super enlightening.

Like everything I'm, I'm, I'm super, just drawn in on, on what you're

saying here, but, uh, you kind of led into the next topic I wanted to, uh,

get into, which was the effects on sleep and, uh, you know, in terms of,

of just our health with blue light.

So obviously we know that, uh, When you're, when it's time to go to

bed, having these, you know, blue lights and just lights in general

on, uh, is not very conduct or condu.

Yeah.

Conductive to our, our sleep and the quality of our sleep.

And it's not even just, you know, having a light, like some lights on while

we're sleeping, but rather the light that we are consuming prior to sleep.

And I think, you know, one of the, the goals that I try to do, which I

will admit, uh, admit it, admit to, sorry, admit to saying that I do.

Follow these, uh, a hundred percent, but definitely when the sun goes down, which

has been really hard here recently because it's been going down so early, but is

I try to limit the exposure to light, whether that's, um, you know, turning

off the lights or at least dimming them.

And, uh, maybe refraining from getting on my phone as much, uh,

if I am watching TV trying to put on some blue blocking glasses.

But what are the health implications that we're seeing with sleep?

Because I know, uh, with my own clients and with just people that I

see in general, it seems that sleep is one of the biggest issues that

people are having here recently.

Whether it's trouble getting to sleep, trouble staying asleep,

trouble getting good sleep, or you wake up and you feel r well rested

and ready to go take on the day.

Uh, yeah, those are definitely some really big issues.

And then on top of that, I don't have any statistics or anything,

but uh, you know, eye problems are a massive, massive issue, obviously.

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but a lot of people obviously

have contacts or glasses, you know, uh, their eyesight is just not fully there.

Or you take, like my mother for example, example who has macular degeneration.

This is like an all too common thing.

So what is kind of the tie there between our sleep and our eye health and the

over exposure to this junk blue light?

Yeah.

Okay.

Let's get into it.

That's a pretty long question there, but feel free to take

on whatever part you feel.

Yeah.

Okay.

Let's, let's just break it down because there is kind of two,

there's two big issues here.

We've got an issue with, cause we've kind of explained what it

is, what blue light is and, and difference with outdoors, indoors.

There's two big issues.

There's one issue about our consumption of the light during the day and our

consumption of light during the night.

And, and the solutions are different for both of them.

So I'll kind of just touch on the day.

First thing, we'll move through the night.

So during the day, As I've alluded to, indoor lifestyle, really high

amounts of blue, not enough of the other beneficial spectrums.

Now, ultimately what you don't want to do is block all blue light during the day.

You don't wanna go, oh shit, I'm indoors.

I've got screens and everything.

I'm gonna show.

I'm gonna put on a pair of blue light blocking glasses that block

a hundred percent of blue light.

Um, because that's gonna completely eliminate your blue light exposure.

Your brain's gonna start thinking it's nighttime.

You're gonna get sleeper, you're gonna be tired, unmotivated, not wanting to work.

And ultimately over time, that's gonna cause s a d, like you're

gonna start feeling depressed, like your eyes will be protected.

That's you, you've solve one problem, created another.

So during the day, it's about looking at your exposure and trying to bring it down

to levels where it's not so intense and it's not having so much damage on the.

So what you've gotta look for here is the most common, um, way to do this

because the, the issue is most of us during the day work in the offices

or work or our own environments where we can't control the lighting.

It's very, very difficult when you work in corporate or even a mall or

a shop or anywhere where you can have any say or control over the lighting.

So the easiest way to try and mitigate this is with a proper set

of blue light glasses that have been designed specifically for

the daytime and specifically to reduce the correct spectrums down.

Now that, that's easier said than done because there's a lot and

a lot of stuff on the market.

Now.

You can jump on Amazon, you can buy a set of blue light gases for $10.

You can, you can find them in a fashion store, a clothing store, and there's a

little bit of a craze that's happened.

Right.

You can drop ship ripping them from China.

They're everywhere.

Yeah.

The issue, the issue with them is that they're technically not lying.

That, that they are blue light glasses.

Like they, you can see the reflection of the blue light off them and, and,

but the issue is, is of, like I've said earlier, blue light ranges from, there's

a range of blue light and the, the consumption of blue light we're getting

indoors is a very narrow spectrum of blue light at a very specific range.

In order to be able to filter that down, you need very specific

glasses that can do that.

So most of the glasses you'll find, they'll have a coating on the outside

that can reflect blue light off it.

Most of that light being reflected off it is violet light to start with,

which is actually before blue light.

And then it can kind of get maybe up to about 400 to four, just about to

420 nanometers of that blue light.

It can filter it down anywhere from five to 20% in order to be able to actually

filter down the 455 nanometers, which is the, the exposure we're getting

from all the lighting and the screens that, that technology doesn't work.

Like the, the, the reflection on the outside, it looks great cuz you

can see it and it looks visually like it's reflecting the blue light.

You need to have special pigments inside the lens that when the light

passes through, it actually absorbs that light at that frequency and then

what's coming through the other side.

It's filtered down.

So when you're looking for a pair of glasses, the first thing is like,

does the company have, uh, have those specification listers on their website?

Do they have the exact nanometers that are been filtered and by what percentage?

So that's kind of like checkpoint one.

Yes, they do.

Cool.

They do well.

Can you contact them?

Ask them for evidence of a, like a light spectrum report where they've

got a, a testing report of their lens showing all the, it's quite a technical

report, but they should have it if they're able to sell those glasses.

Well, how are they validating it?

So that's kind of checkpoint too.

If they don't have either of those, I would probably not invest or waste your

money because the, ultimately they'll probably be that first set of technology.

I said just with the reflection coating on there, ultimately

reflecting 0% at 455 nano.

So that's the first thing.

Look for them.

You're wanting to see about a 50% reduction in blue light.

That's a really good spot to be in.

That's reducing that 4 55 down by 50%, allowing enough blue light through

to stimulate the cortisol, allow you to be awake, alert and work during

the day, but not so much that you're experiencing the ice strain, headaches.

And ultimately, what's leading to macular degeneration in the long term.

The headaches, the migraines, the eye strains, the symptoms you're

experiencing are like warning signs.

It's your body saying, Hey, this is not cool, man.

Like you are, you are destroying my eyes.

But it's something that's not gonna happen overnight.

And we're only starting to see research come out now from like 10 years of screen

use and, and the effect on these eye, these eye diseases and eye problems.

So if anything, it should be like not a, a reactive measure to do this.

It should be a preventative measure.

We should be looking at it and going, how can we actually continue to have

healthy eyes whilst do we consume the.

Screens and live under artificial light sources.

So that's the first thing.

Daytime, you wanna filter it down 50%.

If you are ultimately a very light sensitive person, which some people are,

they react quite severely and have like quite, um, severe migraines and headaches.

You need to go one step further.

It's a light yellow limbs.

What that does is actually drops that 450 nano, 455 nanometers by a hundred percent.

So we can block that whole, whole spectrum out.

But then from 4 55 onwards, it's letting it all through

because that's not the problem.

There's no, so four 70 nanometers, four 80, none of

that's coming from our screens.

It's all coming from natural environment around us.

So you don't wanna block that.

You want that to come in.

That's helping the mood, the energy, the serotonin, and the dopamine.

The 4 55 is ultimately for light sensitive people.

If they eliminate that completely from their artificial source, it

rule really provides them relief.

So we've kind of got two options there to look at during the daytime.

That's really, really good way to mitigate that.

Um, if we move on to nighttime, this is a bit of a different problem.

So nighttime, um, if we think about nature, um, and being outdoors, we're

expos to blue light during the day the sun starts to set, um, blue light starts

to be stripped outta the environment.

If we look at ancestrally, how we've evolved over thousands of years,

uh, caveman days, uh, what do we use for a light source at night?

We use a fire.

What color spectrum is there?

A fire, red, orange, yellow, no green, no blue.

Um, there's a piece of research that was done in 2001, and what that

looked at was it looked at all the different wavelengths of light and

the level of melatonin suppression.

Melatonin is our sleep hormone.

It's our master sleep hormone.

It's actually much more than a sleep hormone.

It's probably a bit more in depth for another discussion about

what melatonin is beyond sleep.

But, um, so this, this study looked at.

All the different wavelengths beyond blue to see what effect

it had on our melatonin levels.

And what was quite interesting, cuz this, this is not that old to study, is it

actually found that it was not just blue light that would suppress your melatonin.

It was blue and it, it was a big bell curve.

So at 470 nanometers, I think it was, was the peak disruption in

melatonin, which was over 80%.

It was around 87% reduction in melatonin, which is huge, right?

Like you think about how just a simple thing of just being exposed to a light

source in the evening is reducing a, a master hormone that's helping you get deep

and restful sleep is reduced by over 80%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, What it showed is it extended beyond the blue light spectrum.

So it went on to um, so blue light finishes at 500 nanometers,

but it actually extended right through to 550 nanometers.

So that's about three quarters of the green light spectrum.

Now it's a lot less of a degree cause I said it was a bell

curve, so it peaked at four 70.

It's just heading all the way down.

But there's still a large big slice from 500 to five 50 nanometers that

is ultimately lowering our melatonin.

Probably not by the 80% that we're getting from that peak, but it's still

bringing it down to suboptimal levels.

So what that shows, ultimately, the outcome of that study is that you want to

remove 100%, not 80, not 90, not 95, 100% of blue and green light up to 550 nano.

So you can't use those same set of glasses you have for the daytime at nighttime.

They're just gonna be ineffective.

They're letting far too much of that, those spectrums through.

And that's where, again, a lot of confusion in the marketplace because

you've got clear's glasses out there that have been promoted to help you with sleep.

Ultimately, I can tell you a set of those glasses will have

zero impact on your sleep.

They, you if, if you feel like you get better sleep cuz you wear them, it's a

hundred percent placebo effect . Yeah.

It's gotta be, cuz like from a, from a scientific point of view, there's

no, there's no founded science to show that it would, um, with that

small reduction in blue, blue light.

So what we're looking to do in the evening is once the sun is set, we want

to try and we want to try and replicate.

What our ancestor had in caveman days, which is a fire, right?

I'm not saying light a fire in your house and use that, but I'm saying

there's, there's, um, tools and techniques we can use to replicate that.

So the glasses is an easy one.

You can put them on.

Um, you wanna see the glasses that will block a hundred percent of blue

light from 400 to 550 nanometers.

What that looks like is a dark orange, close to a reddish type of lens.

Um, having them on will make everything look red and make

everything look warm and like a fire.

It may be a bit strange at first, but you'll get used to it like within a week.

It's almost.

It becomes very un-normal or unnatural not to have them on.

And it's like, I never knew, like light was so bright.

But another, another big or easier way to look at this is, and, and

this is a big, um, thing we've done through the, how we've e evolved

our own business is going well.

The glasses are very much like a, a bandaid or the bandaid a problem.

You know, we're filtering out.

I'm like, well, why don't we just not have the harmful light and

not need to filter it, right?

Like, like stop it at the source.

And I, I get, it's quite hard to do with that, with like the, the screens and

the tech we use, but the actual biggest exposure we have in our own homes in

the evening is all the overhead lights.

You think about how many lights are in our home, it's like they're everywhere.

And when it gets dark, we turn them all on, like heaps of them, like 40,

50 plus of them, the bright white LEDs.

So if we can, if we can alter those lights to not to be more, um, Aligned with

like how they should be in the evening.

Well then it's you, you still do probably want to have the glasses for

circumstances when you are on the screens.

But everyone in that household benefits instantly.

Like it's not like you have to then get everyone in your home.

Especially kids are quite difficult to, to get to wear a set of glasses.

I know that cause we sell kids glasses and they're probably the ones we

sell the least of because it's very, very difficult to get them to comply.

But by default, everyone benefits when you have changed over the lighting in

your home or worked out or used particular areas where you are using a light source

that is flicker free and is, has all the blue lights stripped out of it.

Um, and so what you're wanting to do really is after sunset when those

lights come on, well they're lights that don't have that blue light spectrum

in it because all that's doing to, to everyone in that environment is it's

telling your brain it's still like midday, like it's like while there's

heaps of blue light in the environment.

That means the sun's out.

Like it doesn't understand that evolution takes thousands of years.

Right.

It hasn't evolved to understand the artificial light spectrum versus the

natural light spectrum of blue light.

It just assumes, which is a fair assumption, right?

Like, hey, like I guess it's the sun's out.

So I'm gonna continue to keep my cortisol and adrenaline elevated because

I don't want the human system to be shutting down in the middle of the day.

Yeah.

So it's doing exactly what it's designed to do so that artificial blue light is

suppressing our melatonin and increasing our cortisol even in the evening time.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, you can't have, yeah.

So, um, melatonin and cortisol are opposing hormones.

So you, you, you, if you have high cortisol, you have low melatonin

and opposite, they, they, when you, when you graph them out and

their cycles and levels, they're always an opposite of each other.

So when you get up in the morning and your cortisol spikes up, your

melatonin instantly drops down.

In the evening, what's supposed to happen is naturally our melatonin

is supposed to rise and our cortisol is supposed to come down.

But what happens is our, our cortisol is, say, stays, um, chronically elevated,

so then our melatonin just never has a chance to actually kick in and rise up.

And then when you look at actually cortisol, it's actually an interesting

one cuz cortisol over the long term, having elevated cortisol is actually

starting to cause a lot of health impacts.

Cortisol is quite an interesting link here, which is, um, cortisol.

Elevate your, your blood sugars, um, levels.

So what ultimately is continuously stimulating your cortisol beyond

where it should be over the long term means your blood sugars

are higher over the long term.

High blood sugar causes insulin resistance.

Mm-hmm.

insulin resistance causes weight gain.

So when we start to continuously over the long term, just continue continuing to.

Too much blue light throughout into the night and our blood sugars stay high.

Well then we just lead to insulin resistance, diabetes, and weight gain.

Um, it's an interesting link is like, how does blue light make me fat?

Well, , there's the, there's the very clear link between it.

Yes.

And there's, there is research out there showing it as well.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I, I think that's an excellent example of how just

literally everything is connected and, you know, it's like, it's

the same thing within the body.

One thing that happens in the mouth or the brain or wherever is going

to affect other parts of the body.

And uh, that's a great example of that as well.

Um, a really quick question, and this is something I've heard and I wanted to

just run this by you see if it was true.

Uh, is it also true that it's better to have lights that are lower to the ground

in the evening time as opposed to overhead because they simulate more of a fire?

Yeah.

Um, That's, that's, and that's, I've heard that.

And that's what we generally, we, we, when we come down to like

how we recommend things, we say, well, we want to kind of yeah.

Simulate how we would be exposed to it in nature.

And I haven't seen any particular piece of hard evidence research, but I, I

feel like it does make sense at a bright light, regardless of the spectrum.

So there is research just so the intensity of the light plays, plays a role.

So regardless if you just had a, um, you know, an amber light with no light,

but you sh shine it directly into your face, it's gonna wake you, it's gonna

have a wakefulness effect to a degree.

And so I think having bright white or bright, any light coming from overhead

down is almost like a, it's a, it's, it's ingrained in programming to us that is

the light source from overhead is the sun.

So ultimately, how I like to structure my own lighting and how we

recommended it is in the early evening.

You have your main lighting on, which, um, will be an amber type of light with

all the blue light removed and you're using that early evening, it's really

good to use in the early evening.

I'm not too worried about the removal, that green light spectrum, which I

talked about in the early evening, cuz it's when you start to strip out the

green light, it's, it's a red light and I don't know, but like, it's a

little bit difficult to, to operate your daily life in red lighting.

like trying to cook dinner and, and do stuff in the early evening.

So just a warm amber with all the blue is perfect.

So using that overhead lights are on, it's bright.

You can cook dinner, you can do all the stuff you need to do.

Then once you're really just ready to, to relax, wind down for the

evening, now you wanna watch TV or read a book, all the overhead lighting

should be turned off and just a couple lamps with some red light bulbs in

it that triple the green light out.

So you're kind of like, you're shifting it down like sunset.

You're, you're moving down one step next level to, to preparing yourself for sleep.

So a good one to two hours before bed, depending on your lifestyle, but.

You've really, you've only got a few lamps on, on the home with, with red

lighting in it and the abus shut off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, ah, Daniel, I feel like , I could actually have a very,

very long conversation with you.

So, uh, in terms of the, uh, time limit for this podcast, I'm going to kind

of start to bring us more to a close.

Although, uh, I feel like, I don't know, maybe I need to have you back on cause

this is, this is really good information.

But, um, before I, before I let you go, one thing I did want to ask was what

would be your top tips for people who, um, you know, are dealing with sleep issues

are dealing with, uh, you know, macular degeneration or any kind of eye issues

Like if you know of any supplements that might be great for that or practices such

as, like you explained with the amber lighting in the evening time, uh, putting

on blue light blocking glasses in the evening as well, or even the partial blue

light blocking glasses during the daytime.

Uh, but any tips or tricks that you might have on that would be much appreciated.

And I know that the listeners would be very happy to hear that.

Yeah, well my number one tip is free as well.

It doesn't cost anything, is to get outside . Yes.

That's, that's the biggest one.

So that morning one is important and it's, it's important that, I know people are

really rushed in the morning, but even if it's only five minutes, like just,

just get outside barefoot, grounded.

Like that's really good for us as well.

But just even if, like, if you can't see the sun looking in direction of the sun

overcast day, we talked about the luxe levels, that doesn't matter as much.

You're still bringing in that light.

So that's number one tip is just get outside first thing in the morning.

Next thing is on, still on the same discussion would be like during the

day, like if you can just take time to go for a walk outside again, doesn't

need to be like, you're not needing to spend hours outside, because I know

it's not possible or realistic for most people, but even just getting outside

for a five, 10 minute break, you know, people go outside for smoke breaks.

You go outside for a light break if you know, it's like, it's, um, you

can find a reason to get out there.

Um, And then, yeah, then, then beyond that it's, it's starting to, to look

at using those tools to look at our daytime exposure, look at our nighttime

and eliminating in, in the evening.

Um, and then beyond that it's like, yeah, the sleep ones are, yeah.

Is such a complex one beyond light as well.

It's the mind as well.

We're making sure you're doing practices in the evening that are not stimulating

to the mind, cuz it's not only light that can stimulate you, it's literally if you,

if your, if your brain is consuming too much information or trying to process

too much, it's not gonna wind down.

So I, I like to look at, at as a whole practice in the evening where

light is part of that puzzle where, hey, cool, all the lights are coming

off, you know, I'm winding down.

I'm not, you know, the screens, the, the phones, all that's been shut down and

you're, you're putting yourself in a, in a place where you can actually start

to relax and put yourself to sleep.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, that's excellent advice.

I mean, uh, yeah, I think the sleep one is super difficult because

there are a lot of different factors that can play a role in there.

Um, I, I did have, uh, two specific questions with the eyes.

Have you heard of, uh, gazing into far distances as being

beneficial for eyesight?

And then, um, also have you heard anything in terms of asta, anin and

uh, its benefits for eye health?

Um, gazing into distance?

Yeah, there's a common practice called like the 20 20 20 rule, so

I think it's like every 20 minutes.

Um, Take a, like gaze into distance for, for 20 seconds because there is an

issue with the eyes beyond blue light and it's the focusing on the screens

and the constant, like short term focus.

So again, I don't claim to be a, like an eye specialist or anything.

I'm more of a from the light angle, but I certainly, it has crossed

paths that I think it is important.

Like regardless if you've got all the glasses on, you can't just sit there

hyper focused on a small area for so long.

You're, you're, you're decent de training the eyes in a way to have that distance.

So I try and practice it myself.

There are tools you can actually put on your computer where it literally will

shut down all your work and be like, you know, your 22nd break is, is due

now, sort of thing, four 20 seconds.

So, um, that's, that's a good tactic to look at.

And I think, yeah, I think there is a lot of research around that

and more from the optometry field.

They are talking about that in sight.

Um, AAMP and I health, I have heard a bit of about that.

And ultimately helping with this, with like sunburn in the skin.

There is an interesting supplement, um, for eye health.

It's called lutin.

Um, and it's ability to, there's a few supplements that are

literally being promoted as like blue light filter supplement.

Oh, wow.

Um, yeah, I know.

And like we've, like, we've been approached before to look

at it and partner and I've looked into it a little bit.

And what I would say to that is, yeah, there, like, it looks, it looks

promising that it can pr, um, create protective, uh, can be, have like

predictive properties to the eyes.

But I wouldn't use it as an excuse to be like, well, I'm taking the

supplement that protects my eyes.

And it's, it's like on filtering blue light kind of thing.

That's like, I don't, that's why I don't like the term terminology, like blue

light filter through a supplement, right?

Like, yeah, you can use your screens light.

It's now.

Cause it's like, yeah, it doesn't, it's, it's, you're still being exposed to

it and there is more beyond, um, just that the blue light coming into the

eyes that is affecting us beyond that.

Right?

Like blue light on the skin is actually a problem as well.

And we haven't really even touched on that, but at a really high, le

high level, like, Yeah, the eyes is probably the most important because

of the signaling that happens from the eyes and the optic nerve to the brain.

So we've got receptors in our eyes called melanopsin receptors that aren't

responsible for, um, site at all.

Um, they're purely in there to take in signals of light and

send that signal into the brain.

But what they found in like 2005 was meno receptors that are in

our eyes, exist in our skin.

They're like, whoa.

Like they've just, like in recent times been like those same receptors

are being activated in our skin.

And so essentially we've got a circadian clock, a 24 hour cycle clock in our skin.

Now, how much of an impact is that having in terms of like, uh, the ability for

it to impact our biological processes?

I would say not as much cuz it is new research and you think about it.

The master clock that lives in the brain, it's called our se, and

it's a small portion in the brain.

It's a direct connection from the back of our eye.

The optic nerve goes straight into there, so the signaling coming in

our eyes is having a direct signal to the master clock in the brain.

But you think about then the skin has got also the signaling pathways.

They will be reporting in, in some way, shape or form into that, that master

clock and reporting essentially what's going on in the environment as well.

Now, the.

Is an interesting one because it also has a 24 hour cycle.

It expects to be void of blue light in particular times like it, it upregulates

its, um, regeneration overnight.

When there's no blue light, it's collagen production increases.

Um, and it goes through its own respiration cycles and stuff like that.

And we are now disrupting our skin clock and our skin's ability to

go through its own 24 hour cycle.

So what that looks like over the long term is we get skin damage

and breaking down of the skin that doesn't regenerate over time.

So the skin is an interesting one and that actually when we just

look at wearing glasses, what's happening with the rest of our body.

. Yeah.

Um, so it is an important one as well to look at beyond just going,

oh yeah, I've got the glasses on, I'm taking the, the eye supplement.

I'm good.

Like, it's a bigger, there's, it's a bigger piece.

And you think about just being outdoors and the impact that natural

light does have on our skin, right?

Like we think about.

Um, UV light and UV light will synthesize vitamin D in the body.

Um, and when we get the right amounts of it, and it'd be stupid

to think the other wavelengths don't have some biological impact.

Like they're all, there's all different wavelengths and they all

are absorbed at different frequencies into the body having impact.

So we probably only know such a small portion of what

the light actually is doing.

And there is no supplement or there is no, like for, for sunshine, like in

getting that natural light, we can look at it all and go, well, hold on a minute.

We can, you know, mitigate this here and here and do all these like the,

the tools and the biohacks and all that to try and be like, oh yeah.

But ultimately what I like to say is we are being biohacked out of nature.

Like we, we are, we are, we are all biohacked and we need to like look at how

we can like move back to like not being biohacked and be back in like a more

of a natural, um, Natural environment.

And that's, I think that's where you see a lot of like health practices

going now, we've like done a full circle to like, you know, it's like

getting back to the basics, right?

It's like, yeah.

Eat, move and get outside, like ? Yeah, no, a hundred percent.

And then, uh, I really like that you mentioned the skin being a receptor

for light because, uh, you know, even if you think of people or mainly kids,

but um, you know, like a, a nightlight being on in the room and people might

think, well, my eyes are closed.

I'm not receiving any blue light through the eyes.

But your skin is literally, you know, receptive to that light as well.

And I believe I had even seen a study that said something about cells or

neurons or something, use a form of light to communicate as well.

Uh, just so interesting, which comes back to the health is about

light, not food, kind of quote.

Um, but that's super interesting to hear about the health of, or the, the skin and

the, the interaction with light and Yeah.

And like you said also with, uh, all these different kinds of lights and.

Kind of, uh, not effects on the body, but you know, like you said, with the creation

of vitamin D through the light, right?

And it's like all these other spectrums of light are also probably doing

something else in the body as well.

So wild.

Um, Daniel, honestly, like, I'm, I'm not kidding.

I really could talk to you for a really long time, so I might have you come

back on the show if you're open to it, because I don't even think we got

into the red light therapy, uh, very much, or a few of the other topics.

So, um, if you're open to it, I will be happy to have you back on the show.

Um, but before we do end off here, I would love for you to share, uh, where

people can connect with you, where they can reach out to you, where they

can find your products, where they can find these, uh, very obviously specific

blue light blocking glasses, which obviously if you're talking about all

of the information, uh, here on this show, you can trust that your products

are going to be of that quality.

And so, uh, a very trusted source.

But, uh, yeah, please feel free to share any, any, uh, you know, any

places they can reach out to you.

And obviously I will link all of that in the show notes.

Yeah, yeah.

So you can find us, um, on our website.

It's the easiest place to, to jump on and have a look at.

Everything we talk about.

So block blue light or one word, block blue light.com.

Um, there you'll find, so we're really big on education as well.

Cause like the, the issue isn't just like, here's a bunch of products and like, you

don't know what to do and how to use them.

So we've got a whole heap of blog posts.

We we're really big on that and trying to break it down so people can understand

like the issue and maybe what they need and how to incorporate in their life.

So that's a really big section to just look at as the, like the learn

section and the blogs that we've got.

Um, beyond that whole big range of day glasses, night glasses, we try

and break down and list a bunch of the stuff that I talked about

on here about the specifications.

We have spectrum reports that we can show and if people wanna see that,

then there's a whole big part of lighting and we've got, what we've

tried to do with all our lighting is create all different types of light.

That would use in our home in different situations.

So it's not just a light bulb because we have all different requirements

of like, you need to get up on the night and go to the toilet,

but don't wanna turn a light on.

Like motion lights are really good for that.

We've got book lights, we're reading, we've got lamps, we've got stuff we're

traveling, we've got, we've tried to think about all these different, what

if, I'm gonna be a completely honest, I'm a bit selfish here, but I literally

created all these for my own personal use.

I'm like, damnit.

Like when I'm like in this situation, I'm like, I need something for that.

All right, we're just gonna like create and start selling it.

And it works really well cuz like I'm not the only one, right?

Like we all kind of do similar things in the evening and during the day and stuff.

So we've really now got the ability for you to look at every single

light source you use in your home and have a way of mitigating it or

altering it to be more beneficial.

That's a big one.

And.

But if you are still lost and you're on the website and don't understand

anything, um, you can reach out to us on any of our socials.

So we've got like a chat there for Facebook chat or

just jump on Instagram block.

We light official, you'll find us there.

Um, or email us.

Um, we love to hear from people and un understand what they're looking for.

So if you've got specific, you're not sure like how this will work for your situation

or you've got to, you know, you do night shift work or you do this and you do that

and you want some advice like reach out, like either, like our support team are

really, really good, but if it's like a complex one, it will literally come to

me and I will sit there and I'll like assist the person and help them and answer

them and try and give them the solution to help them, you know, incorporate

a better light into their life.

I love that.

I love that, Daniel.

Yeah, and I mean, I think that's really, uh, what sets you apart is, you know, like

you said, the whole education portion of your website, the fact that people can

reach out to you with these questions.

Um, you know, that, that it's really, to me that's more of a, of like, uh,

you know, an act of, of something from your heart, you know, like you're really

just caring and wanting to give back to people, which, which I really appreciate.

And yeah, honestly, uh, no shame at all in creating something for

yourself because where there's a need, um, that is a great place to create

a product, you know what I mean?

So, um, thank you for doing all of that and using yourself as the Guinea

pig and, and figuring all of this out.

So, uh, I really appreciate that Daniel.

And um, also, For all the listeners, Daniel's been kind enough to

provide a 15% discount code.

It is elemental.

I'll have that all linked in the show notes as well.

But Daniel, thank you so much for coming on the show.

I'm seriously not kidding.

If you want to come back on, we'll get you rescheduled because I feel

that we have tons more to cover here.

Um, awesome being here.

Love to come back on.

I think we've only just scratched the surface on like a real, we Yeah, we

can certainly go into some other areas and discuss, discuss it in more debt.

So I'd love, love to come back.

Excellent.

Excellent, Daniel.

Yeah, we'll definitely have you back on the show, uh, right when we end here.

We'll go ahead and figure that out.

And then, uh, for all of you listeners, thank you guys so much for tuning in.

Uh, you already know the motto of this show.

It's do everything with good intentions and connect to your elements and peace.