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29 - YCM Crash from a Fusion 360 Bug
Episode 29 • 1st November 2022 • Parts Department • Justin Brouillette & Jem Freeman
00:00:00 00:45:07

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Fusion 360 causes a massive YCM crash. New – Support the Show on Patreon to get the Secret Show & more.

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YCM Mill Crash from Fusion 360 Bug (Safe Start misnomer)

  • All Marketers are Liars - the title of which is a lie.
  • Waste Expo
  • Blown Deadlines
  • Packaging/Shipping included in COGS
  • LB's Costing / Pricing with Airpower to Shopify 🤤


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Show Info

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HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcripts

Speaker:

What's that?

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Oh, are you talking to Alexa, right?

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Yep, yep.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Be good morning.

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Oh, Justin, I wish I could play summits.

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God be satisfying.

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That's sexy.

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I don't see

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did you press the.

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Fuck, I didn't now.

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Now it's recording somehow.

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Okay.

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Do it again.

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Whew.

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it is recording.

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It's just the video that doesn't record.

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Breathe it out.

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3, 2, 1.

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Sometimes I just miss my own hands.

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I think like I used to be coordinated and play sports and now like, yeah,

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Those floppy, cat hands.

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it's the CAD hands.

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It's my cat hands CAD cap.

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Do you send your, your significant other friends, like all CAD cap text?

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shouting, CAD speak?

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CAD caps.

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Yep.

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What's.

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Um, I was lucky person to find a bug in the Fanic post that crashed the YC m y.

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Hm.

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Rapid plunge, Rapid plunge, straight Z pull.

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Verizon, A three eight s carbide tool straight into the palette.

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I No, Which not your beautiful, shiny palette, I hope.

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Not the big one, but a new one that I was making for the risers.

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Yeah, I'll bugger.

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digging through so far.

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I.

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Nothing is wrong.

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I have not machined anything.

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The spindle, as far as I can tell, without like more sophisticated

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tools of like a Ballbar test or something, I don't even know.

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I've never had to do this before, but like the run out on the

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tapers fine tools run out fine.

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It seems to be.

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Decently XY oriented to the table and like my pallet didn't

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move as far as I can tell.

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The only thing that seems to have changed, which is real creepy, is all

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of my tool heights are now like six thou what 0.06, longer than they should be.

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So I'm retool hiding all my tools.

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and they're all averaging, I'm keeping a spreadsheet roughly 6,000 longer,

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so that tells me that something moved.

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Not a good feeling.

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so it was a hard vertical crash.

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Yeah, I'm a I, This is why I wanted my audio to play, cuz

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I will you can hear it here.

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Oh, oh,

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What the fuck,

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Oh my God.

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I,

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right?

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It shook.

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It shook the machine like the camera in that room shook

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that, that I got that audio.

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And Ricky came running and yelling, Are you all right?

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He's like, That was afterwards.

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He's like, That was the scariest noise I've ever heard here.

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It's like the first scary thing I heard and I was like, Yeah, it, It was pretty

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terrible, like pretty terrible noise.

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Shh.

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rough, rough afternoon.

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it was a,

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Like shook my entire confidence in all of fusion.

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Like all I knew about machining, cuz I was just like, here, here's the crazy.

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It simulates fine still.

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There's no simulation errors.

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It is literally a bug in safe start all operations, which

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I started using last week.

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So you could restart mid program.

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So it cancels all, all things at the beginning of a, of a program.

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So like each operation.

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So I was doing a flat operation with the three eight cinema, and then it was

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going to a 2D contour with the same.

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The same file and it safe started there at the top of that operation.

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So it canceled all the offsets, brought it up to the top, but instead of setting

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the tool offsets again it first rapid straight down to the wrong height plane

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because there was no tool off height offsets until after, after the rapid move.

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Right.

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And apparently I'm the first one to figure this out in all of

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the fanic post users of Fusion.

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I don't understand how that's possible, but I, I'm the luck,

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I, I hope I get a bonus for that.

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I like a White Hat Hacker award.

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What are you basing that on?

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Well I immediately posted the auto dust slack and was like, Hey, so this real

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bad thing happened and I'm pretty sure I didn't do it, which was weird, first of

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all, to like, have you ever had a crash where you the operator didn't cause it?

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Cause I haven't

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No.

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And so a couple of the developers immediately jumped in and were like,

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Ooh, yeah, that's in every Fanic Post.

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And Matt Sir.

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And a couple others in our prepository.

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So somehow nobody else has done safe.

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Start with like multiple tool, like whatever that clause is,

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wow.

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And they're like on fast fix binge.

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But the other side of that is like, I didn't realize there was a place

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to look for change notes for post.

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Infusion.

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I never even thought about it.

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I never would've thought like my working post was needing updates.

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Cause I don't pull them down.

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I just use the one always.

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you, you just pull it and use it, right?

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Mm.

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So I put a link to link to where you can check for those.

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So if you're if the, I sure they'll fix it after this, today's October 26th.

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But if you use a Fanic or a Matura or a Sill or a couple others, Supposedly most

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of those, if you're using safe start all operations, you can crash your machine

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because it puts the offsets out of order, the the correct code parameters.

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So

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Mm,

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fun, fun, fun afternoon.

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Yeah,

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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making such good progress too, and it just like shattered my world for.

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Yeah, it's so disconcerting.

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I've only ever had very minor post issues,

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Mm-hmm.

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just like really little things like 2d not too deep contours.

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What's the other one?

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The one that fills the space, You know, What's the cult?

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That's 3D printing.

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Jim

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Oh my

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3D parallel maybe, or.

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That's more, It's in the, No, it's just a 2d,

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2D face,

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2D pocket park.

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It, Yeah.

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I had a post issue on our on Cameron.

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Just had some really weird glitches where pockets would, you know, simulated, right?

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But then the cut, depending on the part geometry, it would just

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step down in weird little ways.

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Kind of like ghost in the machine.

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It's just, it wasn't a big deal.

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Didn't, you know, didn't lose anything, didn't break tools,

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but like so disconcerting to have a machine like misbehave

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It is.

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It's

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really really strange, like.

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I'm not trying to over exaggerate this, but I legit felt like I

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saw like a car crash for a bit.

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Like no, obviously nobody died and it just, well, like such adrenaline

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and like it, it shook the floor.

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Like it was just very jarring.

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I don't understand like if it comes out of this unscathed except for

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like a little bit of z change, which, what did bolts move?

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Did I stretch the casting?

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I don't really know, like not good.

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I'll be pretty surprised if nothing's really wrong with it for how hard it is.

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I sent you, not that you have to watch it right now, but some photos

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and a video of of it happening.

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Cool.

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Thanks I dunno if I want to hear that noise again.

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Even like the low-fi version of it coming through, this is frightening.

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So where, where's it at now?

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Are you just still resetting?

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Yeah.

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This morning I was between talking with Autodesk.

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going through, I'd gotten kind of a nice checklist from Al Fusion

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on what I was like, I don't even know where to start here.

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Like, what am I checking?

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Like I, I'm sure you kind of have to, be around a crash to

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know what to check for, I think.

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And I never had anything to this extent.

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just, yeah, dial indicated that like the machine to like the table.

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I never had before in that way, and like then checked the pallet to see

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if it had moved off of, but it's like dead on like indicator like

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doesn't even move when I'm run.

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Sweeping it, I checked, I'm just now currently at the state of going

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through each tool logging what it said in a spreadsheet for Tool

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Heights and then measuring it again.

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And they're averaging almost exactly six thou every one of.

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Like, it'll be like 4,006.

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How?

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Something's moved, huh?

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If this was like a Kern or you know, something pricey, this

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would be many digits to, to fix.

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I.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Anyway, How's your, how's your week,

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Well nothing, nothing of that level of excitement by any means.

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I guess that's good.

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Yeah.

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No, no crashes.

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We did have a machine down over the weekend.

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Had a tiny little.

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Under Trinity.

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Trinity's kind of got more advanced vacuum hold down than Cameron

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Oh,

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and she's got vacuum zones.

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Cameron's just like all in

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Mm.

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hoovering, the full surface.

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Whereas Trinity, we can select I think quadrant, oh,

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sorry, sorry.

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Microphone can select quadrants, which is actually really, really useful cuz

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you can kind of just switch on the bottom left quadrant and get like amazing.

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Full, full power just in one spot.

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But yeah, one of the solenoids that controls one of the zones dropped out

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on the Wednesday or Thursday last week.

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So we had, I think two, two days with that machine down, waiting for a tech

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to come out and replace a $2 part.

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So we now have some spares of that little cheap part that we

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can replace ourselves for next.

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The part itself, you know, it's, I'm exaggerating.

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It's not a $2 part, but yeah.

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You know, it's a small

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just pneumatic oid that failed.

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So we should be able to do that ourselves next time.

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Cause I think that's the second time, second or third

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time, one of those has failed.

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I feel like that I hear those.

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Maybe it's like Saunders talking about it, but that those fail somewhat

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frequently, but maybe that's not true.

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I don.

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I don't.

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They're pretty simple little things

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Yeah.

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anyway so Trinity was down for a few days and Trinity is kind of our main production

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machine these days while Cameron's been locked up machining this acoustic panel

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job, we've had a lot of, lot of work.

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Doing that contract machining of that acoustic wood wall stuff

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this month, heaps more than usual.

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So Cameron's pretty much just been a dedicated set up, making

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a mess, machining that nonsense.

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And so yeah, losing our main production machine was a bit of a hindrance

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this month, but I think Johnny's catching up now getting back on track.

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And yeah, we've been a little bit short staffed with people

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away, but hasn't been too bad.

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John's been keeping a handle on production management with

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Ben overseas at the moment.

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Hmm.

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And yeah, no production's going pretty well.

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That's good.

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of smoothly.

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Smoothly, which is, you know, always feels.

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Still feels weird to me when things are just like going smoothly.

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what's wrong?

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What if, what have we missed?

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enough people to pay attention to all of it.

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Yeah.

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Just, just could do with another couple of people at the moment,

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but they'll be back soon.

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Otherwise, what are we doing?

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We've had a terrible month of sales.

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Sam we're like half of what last was,

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Yeah.

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that was like one of our best ones ever.

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So, but that's like so characteristic of like, I just swear I'm always, two

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years ago maybe, where maybe before pandemic, where it was just like steady.

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We'd get the same amount every month ish, maybe a couple thousand.

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Now it's just woo woo.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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I reckon we're seeing greater variability too,

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Yeah.

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so yeah.

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I dunno what's going on there.

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I don't know if it's market, a market thing.

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It really depends who you talk to.

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Like some people are like, Oh yeah, of course it's cuz of the

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economy, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Spending habits, and then other people are like, Mm, nope.

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people.

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I don't know.

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I don't know what's going on.

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I haven't changed my spending habits, so

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Did we ever talk about this?

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I don't know where.

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I probably think I found it on TikTok maybe, but I found this marketer,

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it's called Stacked Marketer.

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I'll put a link to it if you're interested.

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I don't read at all, but it's like a daily email for marketers, which I

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barely find myself approaching that.

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they'll often have really interesting, like kind of big announcement

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news about like, you know, Instagram's gonna start doing this

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or like just that kind of stuff.

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Or like, you should look at this type of.

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In, you know, real ad or is now doing this creepy thing, or

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Yeah, that's the kind of thing I need to sign up to.

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it's a lot, honestly.

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Like I barely skim.

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Usually I like scan it, but sometimes there's some really good stuff in there.

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But they, I think yesterday it said some, oh no 3:00 AM today.

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The subjects slowing.

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Good morning.

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It's slowing down.

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Big number of tech co share their Q3 earnings this week.

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There's some good and bad news.

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The bad Google's advertising revenue dropped.

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Microsoft dropped, Spotify dropped.

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So

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Hmm.

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like it's not just us.

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They have weird slowness.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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that's not even weird.

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No, just is, huh?

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, slow month there.

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Trying to, We've got a couple of days left, so we've done a little

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campaign, dropped, put free shipping on everything yesterday, so I'll

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try and promote that today to get a few more web sales in, in the door.

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And what else?

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Yeah, just chasing up a few custom leads to try and close those

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out for the end of the month.

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But yeah, I don.

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I feel like I'm just sort of in a world of social media metrics and Premiere.

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I had like crazy fever dreams on the weekend.

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I think I must have been fighting a bug or something.

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I was, my daughter was sick and I must have got a bit of what she had and.

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Saturday and Sunday night.

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I just had these horrible cyclical fever dreams of like script premier,

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why am I, Why am I editing in premier?

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I should be editing in script.

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And it was just like this cycle of like, Descript script, premiere

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script, like all night long.

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It was pretty horrible.

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Anyway, I got in Monday and I was like, Okay, maybe I

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should do something about that.

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And I did.

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I ran some, like, I dropped the same 4K footage into prem and into script and

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was just comparing sort of functionality and playback speed and Descript

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script was struggling, to be honest.

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It takes some time for the clips to kind.

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Yep.

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load or what buff process or whatever they're doing in

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the ma, the Magic des cloud.

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And also then the just editing playback with that 4K footage was a little bit

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slow and clunky, whereas in prem, I'm fighting on this computer in prem.

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It's just like boo perfect playback.

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I couldn't scrub.

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It's quite fast.

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But

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do really like the editing workflow in the script though, so I don't know.

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Like, like this speed of what?

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I mean, it's totally different to edit a podcast than like, One of

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your, our marketing videos where it's more like, you're thinking more and

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like, Oh, I gotta put this clip here.

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It just, you know, speed through it basically.

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But like the speed of which you can cut stuff out and like move through it.

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Like, I love the, the zoom and like using the keyboard commands and

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Yep.

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It works so beautifully with even just little things like track pad

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functionality versus mouse functionality is just like really intuitive in group.

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Whereas in Premier it's you like Zoom is a bit weird and like unresponsive.

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Anyway, anyway,

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It sucks when I'm like, I usually end up editing the podcast in bed

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with inverted color mode cuz I'm like, Oh, I gotta hit this tonight.

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Get

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it just just choose through battery compared to everything

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else, which is surprising.

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Oh dear.

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No, I can't, I can't talk.

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My editing is usually late at night too.

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Yeah.

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Speaking of, we're trying to change that.

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How are we trying to change that

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you just slipped into like a script, Justin's script mode.

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I

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are trying to

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planned.

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I've been reading a script the whole time.

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What do you mean

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Well, yeah.

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Should we shout out to our inaugural?

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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Is that appropriate?

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Yeah.

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He's been a good supporter of everything I've done lately.

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Oh, that's sweet.

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It's a good dude.

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Oh, well, if he's your dude.

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Oh,

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you, Scott.

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Over to you, Justin.

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So we're starting a Patreon.

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We've started a Patreon for parts department, and this isn't like

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some money grab because podcasts don't usually make money, Right?

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Especially these kinds.

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So there's a few costs with the show hosting and editing software and our time

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to do it, which we kind of just wash away.

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But it is a lot of time and we're trying to find enough money here so

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that we can have a podcast editor.

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so that we don't have to do it anymore because we enjoy doing it.

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We enjoy talking, but it is a decent amount of time to

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make a, an output every month.

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So we have a few tiers that for what you're comfortable with,

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and there'll be a link below.

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But one of which I think my favorite tier is at $10 or higher, you get a secret

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show episode, which will be, I think we're thinking like every month, and it'll.

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You've, you've had a lot of thoughts about what do you think

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will have in the secret show?

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I would like to just go a bit more in depth with financial stuff cuz

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something that frustrates me in life, but particularly in this sort of content is

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people not going quite deep enough for my

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Mm-hmm.

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or not sharing things.

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And so I'd like to be able to sort of share a bit more about, you

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know, how much should we spend on digital marketing last month.

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did that result in which I don't always feel comfortable going to

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that level of detail in a regular episode, but yeah, perhaps in that

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sort of bonus content episode with a much smaller audience than that

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would be a fun, fun thing to touch on.

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So for me, yeah, it's talking finances in more depth.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Or maybe like sharing the intimate details of how your machine

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crashed, which I already did, but

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Even more

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doesn't happen again.

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Yeah.

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Bring you inside.

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come inside the mill room with

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Justin.

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we've, been kind of teasing the, the details of it for trying to figure

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out, you know, how to make it something that you all would wanna support and.

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You know, we're a fairly small show, but we get a lot of comments

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from people appreciating it.

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So we like to think of it, I think, I like to think of it, I think

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we've talked about this, it's like business therapy for Gemini.

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And I guess my pitch to you is like, this is a very cheap

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business therapy for you as well.

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Hopefully it's way cheaper than hiring a consultant if you

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support a Patreon for a podcast.

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So, make it a donation.

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That's expensible.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So thank you.

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Thank you to Scott Bennett of House Fish Design.

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Thank you Scott.

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First he, we had some stories and he was the first to jump on it without

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any question, which is how he has been supporting our new products too.

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I think he has a shop saver similar to ours, and he's.

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A couple of our newest things within a couple minutes of them

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going live, so I've appreciated

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Oh, awesome.

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Super cool.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Well, the other thing I'd say, we're not intending to change the show.

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Don't freak out.

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This is gonna stay the same.

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We're just gonna probably go a little deeper on a few things.

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The other option, I think the highest tier we have right

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now, $25, there's going to be?

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All right, so at Dawn's, Deb Burgers at $25 a month.

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Have a quarterly hangout as well.

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So does, so does gem's robots at $10 a month.

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So the $25 a month.

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Also get you random surprises, which we can't tell you about obviously,

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because then they wouldn't be random.

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But pick what you feel comfortable.

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And we appreciate it.

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Either way.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

Any support would be amazing To feed the editing.

Speaker:

Beast.

Speaker:

The editing effort.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

The beast.

Speaker:

Don's getting tired.

Speaker:

It's

Speaker:

Poor dawn.

Speaker:

Poor dawn.

Speaker:

It it, it's coffee time.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I made two coffees this morning.

Speaker:

I've got them lined up on my desk for one.

Speaker:

One gets cold, I can work onto the next, No, it's mine.

Speaker:

So I went to a trade show yesterday,

Speaker:

was it local?

Speaker:

No, I was in Melbourne.

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker:

I guess that's local, right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Seems seems local enough.

Speaker:

local enough.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I went to a trade show about waste,

Speaker:

Ah,

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was interesting.

Speaker:

It was kind of you know, it was big boy waste, you know, big recycling.

Speaker:

Plants soil reclamation, shredders for like huge metal, you know,

Speaker:

recycling lines and stuff like that.

Speaker:

So it was kind of cool to see a bunch of, sort of big industry stuff, but

Speaker:

also had some good conversations with people about, you know, met a couple

Speaker:

of companies that potentially take something like our sawdust product.

Speaker:

Whether it's pre-cost or post compost, but like people that could potentially

Speaker:

deal with the volume of sawdust.

Speaker:

With that, we generate,

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

That's cool.

Speaker:

people that sell shredders, some of which were potentially small

Speaker:

enough or suitable for us to be able to like, cuz we, you know, we're

Speaker:

holding all the sawdust that we.

Speaker:

With the aim to compost it, turn it into soil but then we're still putting,

Speaker:

you know, all the smaller, useless little scraps of plywood and stuff in

Speaker:

the bin, which is going to landfill, which we, we ultimately, we want

Speaker:

to get rid of landfill completely.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And one way to do low, vast majority of that would be to shred all those smaller

Speaker:

off cuts down to a size that they could then be fed into the compost stream if we

Speaker:

can get this compost thing up and running.

Speaker:

So, Yeah, getting some prices on shredders.

Speaker:

I think the cheapest one was about $40,000, but you know, it was good to

Speaker:

see one operating and get a sense of scale and investment and stuff like that.

Speaker:

I'm sure there's cheaper options out there, which might

Speaker:

be more suitable for us, but

Speaker:

So this could intake like plywood and like chunk it up into, like, then do

Speaker:

you pe do you, could you like compact it or is that a completely different

Speaker:

type of machine that's also $40,000?

Speaker:

Another , that's another 40 k I think.

Speaker:

No, this, this just shreds it.

Speaker:

So, you know, you know, like when you're packing a bin with random off cuts

Speaker:

off the sea and here it tends to be pretty inefficient in terms of space.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

So first, and you know, first and foremost, it would just reduce our volume.

Speaker:

It's not like we're throwing out any less, but it would reduce the

Speaker:

volume in the bin, which is a small.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

but then the, the main thing for us would, it would achieve is just being able to

Speaker:

switch where that waste output's actually going and put it into our compost stream.

Speaker:

So yeah, I'm just kind of cool.

Speaker:

Looked at, they had like a clean energy expo next door, so had a quick look at

Speaker:

some like three phase battery systems?

Speaker:

That could potentially be tacked onto our solar system here.

Speaker:

Cause at the moment we feed excess solar back to the grid, but we get a

Speaker:

very small return for that feed in.

Speaker:

So if we could store that energy and use it ourselves, it'd be much more valuable.

Speaker:

So, down the track, I'd love to get a battery pack, but it's,

Speaker:

again, it's a big investment.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

Did they put this, this, this expo on for you specifically?

Speaker:

Cuz

Speaker:

seems like, it seems like

Speaker:

I was the only one there.

Speaker:

to your interests.

Speaker:

No, there were heap of people there.

Speaker:

Like

Speaker:

it was, It was interesting walking in and trying not to be like, I'm not a

Speaker:

cynical person, but like in this sort of area, a little part of me goes, Or

Speaker:

there's so much money in the, you could just smell the money, like the sort

Speaker:

of people trying to capitalize on the sort of clean energy movement, but also

Speaker:

just like how to, how to put more shit in the ground for a, for less money.

Speaker:

Differently.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How to, How to bury shit differently.

Speaker:

But yeah, that's good.

Speaker:

Good.

Speaker:

It was just nice to get away.

Speaker:

the workshop too

Speaker:

and just take a joint by myself in the car.

Speaker:

Had no other appointments.

Speaker:

I dropped in, had a cup of tea with Sarah in the Melbourne office.

Speaker:

Had a nice chat.

Speaker:

It was good to see her in a native habitat, and

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

it was a good day.

Speaker:

Sounds nice.

Speaker:

It's nice that you can

Speaker:

Retu.

Speaker:

do that and not feel that you know, you've got the situation, which we've

Speaker:

talked about at length, how you.

Speaker:

Integral.

Speaker:

You're not running the machines every day.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Like you can leave and stuff's stuff's fine and people are

Speaker:

getting stuff done and it's nice.

Speaker:

I'm pretty useless.

Speaker:

It's great.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

. Yeah.

Speaker:

That's why you got the cubby.

Speaker:

The carby.

Speaker:

I'm designing some new cubbies actually.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Having been enjoying my cubby so much, I want everyone else to have a cubby

Speaker:

Please tell me you're building like small, portable offices.

Speaker:

almost, almost.

Speaker:

with a piano that plays sound clips.

Speaker:

No, no.

Speaker:

Main client I've talked about a little bit.

Speaker:

We have, weekly design sessions.

Speaker:

Which often end in whiskey and

Speaker:

why you like them now.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

We just hang out in his child's cubby and drink whiskey at the end of the day.

Speaker:

Umm, what?

Speaker:

It's a good thing.

Speaker:

No, we've been working on.

Speaker:

We share a lot of ip, so like his product design feeds into

Speaker:

ours and our feeds into his.

Speaker:

It's kind of one of the few client relationships where

Speaker:

I'm quite happy sharing.

Speaker:

threading and clip crate technology to sort of assist

Speaker:

cuz it's a very bidirectional, Anyway what was I gonna say?

Speaker:

We're working on a little, I'm doing some work on the office here to try and make

Speaker:

it a bit more useful for the guys now that we have quite a, you know, heavy

Speaker:

admin component to our business like Jay.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Aaron spends a lot of time in the office doing sales.

Speaker:

Jay's full time in the office.

Speaker:

Like I'd like to make the office a little bit nicer cuz it's always just been

Speaker:

really ad hoc and I'd like to give people a little bit more sort of sound privacy

Speaker:

and just like the ability to get put blinkers on and focus when they need to.

Speaker:

So I've been working on some little like office pod things using

Speaker:

thread of Dell and what woven felt.

Speaker:

So it's been fun little project and I'll.

Speaker:

Prototype one of those in the coming week, I think.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Be good.

Speaker:

Very fun.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Should be

Speaker:

what's, what are you guys banking at the moment?

Speaker:

What's Ricky

Speaker:

are making more dust boots.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

We just had a rash of sales in the last couple days, which is nice.

Speaker:

And we were just about out and They're, they just go on spurts.

Speaker:

It's like, I swear, it's like everybody, they, they get seen at the same

Speaker:

time or I don't know what happens.

Speaker:

But making those,

Speaker:

you keeping?

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

Are you keeping the printers busy?

Speaker:

they, we've where we're ahead for a bit there, so they've been sitting,

Speaker:

they'll probably start up again.

Speaker:

We only have basically one working one.

Speaker:

I'm still working with Perus on trying to get the other one.

Speaker:

To work again.

Speaker:

So it's been good to have two.

Speaker:

And actually the second one is now having y crashes as well.

Speaker:

Oh no.

Speaker:

I don't understand like what causes this because it's not the same files and just

Speaker:

like suddenly it had like 50 y crashes.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

And they, they like Bruce's support's there and helpful.

Speaker:

They're always willing to help, but you can sit for an hour and go through

Speaker:

all the same diagnostic checks and like tests and then like, I have to leave,

Speaker:

or Ricky's gotta go work another job.

Speaker:

Or like, we get to this place where like, well check on this and come back to us.

Speaker:

And then we have to like kind of start over the next time with a new person.

Speaker:

It's like never consistent, like which is, I get it, but it's also

Speaker:

like, man, there's gotta be some better way that we've been working on.

Speaker:

Seemly like six weeks.

Speaker:

Cause it's like whenever we have enough time, somebody will

Speaker:

jump into fixing that again.

Speaker:

And my fix of the week is now the middle.

Speaker:

So hopefully it's fine and we'll move forward.

Speaker:

I guess, oh, here's a question just to come back to that.

Speaker:

This is the thing I keep thinking about.

Speaker:

I mean, we're pretty not to.

Speaker:

Not to steal from the secret show, but we're pretty, you know, cash tight

Speaker:

right now with like waiting for a new product and spending a lot of r and d

Speaker:

money on the new product stuff, thinking it was gonna be out, which it's not

Speaker:

as I thought in October would you, if you were me, have a tech come in

Speaker:

to look at this thing at this point?

Speaker:

gut feeling, quick response.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

And I think, Cause yeah, if you're cash tight, I don't know.

Speaker:

It's not crucial.

Speaker:

Like, it's not like you've.

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A product.

Speaker:

I know it's crucial to this new product line, but it's not like you've got

Speaker:

a product line that's was already in

Speaker:

Being make, Yeah.

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Yeah.

Speaker:

That'd be different for.

Speaker:

Then you'd be like, Right, how do I get this back online as quickly as possible?

Speaker:

But because you're still in that kind of pre-launch r and d mode to

Speaker:

some extent, I guess that gives you a lit little bit more time whether

Speaker:

you wanna spend that time or not.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

As far as I can tell, what we would suffer from is accuracy or like, I don't think

Speaker:

there's anything that could be further broken cuz the spindle sounds great.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

So I think it could be just more like tweaking diagnostic stuff

Speaker:

that I don't fully understand.

Speaker:

And it seems, I'm hoping by the end of the day I'll know whether

Speaker:

or not cutting more stuff came out.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

But I also don't like have a CMM to check all of it anyway, so I never

Speaker:

But that's the

Speaker:

kind of thing.

Speaker:

like, if it sounds all right and sort of checking out mechanically, then like why

Speaker:

not just get it back online and run parts

Speaker:

I, that's what I'm thinking too.

Speaker:

as quickly as possible, like get it cutting chips again as quickly

Speaker:

as possible so you can verify.

Speaker:

And then if you find anything really weird, then.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

. Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Which,

Speaker:

then you call the text

Speaker:

yeah, if I can

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

still, my probably at least capable machinist skills or metrology.

Speaker:

I just don't have a lot of metrology tools.

Speaker:

And also it just wasn't really a thing with the router.

Speaker:

So I spent most of my years.

Speaker:

Not being concerned with any other than like a cheap Cper , you know,

Speaker:

like nobody, nobody cared.

Speaker:

So I think my concern at this point is I was in the middle of making a fixture

Speaker:

that I have to, like, I'm bringing the height down on all of it and leaving

Speaker:

one of those areas that the, the bits I'll probably share some photos.

Speaker:

The bit is injected into, and I'm just, luckily that was just an extra alignment

Speaker:

pin area for this bar that goes on it.

Speaker:

But my concern is like if this machine isn't square and like tight

Speaker:

now and I'm making a fixture, then everything after that is shit.

Speaker:

Potentially, I don't

Speaker:

know, but just kind of gotta roll with it, I guess.

Speaker:

Tell a

Speaker:

It's got a probe in it.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

You've got a reassure or something.

Speaker:

Can you put one of your pallets that you've already

Speaker:

made back in it and probe it

Speaker:

Probably.

Speaker:

to try and work out if there's anything?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like, cuz that's kind of the pallet you've just made is kind of a known dimension.

Speaker:

Should be known location on the bed.

Speaker:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

If you could then probe

Speaker:

can tell.

Speaker:

Seemed to have

Speaker:

stretched though.

Speaker:

stretch other than that Z stretch.

Speaker:

Maybe you could verify like x, Y and variance in Z by probing the pallet

Speaker:

so that you've just made, I don.

Speaker:

yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Maybe somebody has some ideas.

Speaker:

I'll, I'm gonna keep, Autodesk has been pretty helpful and I'll keep

Speaker:

reaching out to other people I think that have experience smashing

Speaker:

machines and what to do with them.

Speaker:

So other than that, I.

Speaker:

Crushing it.

Speaker:

I felt like I had, I just felt like I made a ton of base parts, like nine different

Speaker:

parts in one day, like on Friday.

Speaker:

It was just like I made all of the sizes and all of the new parts we needed in like

Speaker:

two thirds of a day, which was crazy fast for how fast I was moving with all the

Speaker:

rest of it, but just like I don't know, it just suddenly clicked and that that

Speaker:

last pallet of fixtures just went super.

Speaker:

And so I was moving on to the next one and had this weird issue.

Speaker:

So

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Hmm

Speaker:

You want to support the boys of the Parts Department podcast, right?

Speaker:

Starting right now you can go show your support on Paytreeon.

Speaker:

Jem and Justin consider this their weekly therapy, you should too!

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Even Tony Soprano went to therapy!

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collet deep in some aluminum?

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What,

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mm

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board?

Speaker:

Are you,

Speaker:

Not

Speaker:

the.

Speaker:

Not much at all.

Speaker:

I haven't, Yeah, I've been really failing to make time for r and d.

Speaker:

I've been quite focused on making videos for like web and marketing

Speaker:

purposes, which feels crazy.

Speaker:

What am I doing?

Speaker:

I mean it,

Speaker:

I can see both sides though.

Speaker:

It's like both are what?

Speaker:

Supposed to be doing, and like I'd, I suppose if I would use your medicine

Speaker:

against you that you've, you've injected into me is do a little of both each day,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Huh?

Speaker:

which has been helpful and I've kind of ignored, I've basically been completely

Speaker:

locked into like, finish pedestals.

Speaker:

But like, you know, when I do do the, a little bit every day, I do

Speaker:

feel like that's the best outcome.

Speaker:

How I can work and how I feel.

Speaker:

I feel like I've done all the right things every day versus when I'm

Speaker:

just like sucked into one process.

Speaker:

I'm like, Oh, what did I do?

Speaker:

I'm like, You feel like you're like unconscious a little bit.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

No, I mean that space at the moment, just a little bit too

Speaker:

obsessive about it, and then.

Speaker:

at the same time, trying to keep myself consistent.

Speaker:

So I'm when I have those doubts about like, what am I doing, Just

Speaker:

making Instagram videos for a job.

Speaker:

This is crazy.

Speaker:

It's like no jam.

Speaker:

It's only been a couple of weeks.

Speaker:

Just hang tight.

Speaker:

head down, keep going.

Speaker:

Are they working though, is the

Speaker:

but I need to, I need to reset my default diary.

Speaker:

Well, I mean, nothing really is working in sales at the moment, so who knows?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But yeah, no, I got heaps of things on my to-do list and some

Speaker:

fun ones on there too, so, yeah.

Speaker:

I had a weird thought the other day as we were packaging up all the duck

Speaker:

towers that we shipped, which was sweet.

Speaker:

All the first round went out yesterday and The UPS driver pulled up to pick

Speaker:

up, and I had accidentally mistaken which day I was shipping some of 'em.

Speaker:

So he thought he was picking up three and he was like, Oh, well

Speaker:

no, I need to go get the truck

Speaker:

And I was like, Yeah.

Speaker:

But I was thinking about this is kind of a, a next level, probably, maybe

Speaker:

something that you could get into.

Speaker:

We were talking about job costing and I kind of relate that to how I

Speaker:

price products and the profitability of them, especially related to like

Speaker:

this stack of unprofitable products.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

in particular, when you have a more complicated to package prep for shipping

Speaker:

product like that almost has to be accounted for in the cost of the product.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

Absolutely.

Speaker:

and it's like something that you were saying, you don't account for

Speaker:

your packaging costs, but it's.

Speaker:

I, I will do like a vague number of packaging costs, but I've

Speaker:

never consciously thought like, Oh, it's taking Ricky two-thirds

Speaker:

a day to pack all these boxes.

Speaker:

That's not accounted for in any way.

Speaker:

You know, like cost-wise, it's just kind of always been like,

Speaker:

Oh, I'll do it, you know?

Speaker:

Yeah, you gotta get that time in there.

Speaker:

I mean, I can't talk.

Speaker:

Yeah, as you say, we've excluded c and t time for carton cutting, which is silly,

Speaker:

but certainly at that time that it takes to package a product bundle, put it in a

Speaker:

cotton, even just like booking the cour.

Speaker:

Getting the customer details right, booking the career, like

Speaker:

all of that just eats time.

Speaker:

Oh

Speaker:

We've gotten better at it over the years and we have more templates

Speaker:

in our, like where we log in and book the jobs and stuff like that.

Speaker:

But still, yeah,

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

it eats hours and has to be part of the product price, I reckon.

Speaker:

Because it's, it is an interesting, we made some pretty

Speaker:

cool packaging for those parts.

Speaker:

, I accidentally ordered catering boxes for the duck towers to ship in.

Speaker:

So it looks like we shipped lasagnas to people with like our packaging tape on it.

Speaker:

It ended up working great because if you just would've put some

Speaker:

paper in there, they would.

Speaker:

Smashed around and hit each other.

Speaker:

And like I was saying last week, so it came out perfect on my

Speaker:

Chester, caught us some cardboard for it, and Ricky designed it.

Speaker:

It's folded up and it went out super well.

Speaker:

I guess I don't, I have, I've only heard one person that has received it locally so

Speaker:

far, so I'm hoping it gets to everybody.

Speaker:

I just struck me.

Speaker:

I was like, Man, so if you had a really complicated to pack product, . It

Speaker:

absolutely is costing more than, Anyway, I'm rehashing, but it hit me

Speaker:

for the first

Speaker:

I get you.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How do you do your product pricing?

Speaker:

You in just a spreadsheet or

Speaker:

make a spreadsheet.

Speaker:

I kind of usually copy like the most recent or one that makes sense and then

Speaker:

I'll, Most of those things tend to work and then I update the things that don't.

Speaker:

don't update it frequently, but although, you know, the cost of things has changed

Speaker:

so much, you know, all over the place that it feels like you need to kind of keep

Speaker:

updating it more often now than I used to.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

like resold one of those CNC carts that we've had on our, on our

Speaker:

shop, somebody bought like two of

Speaker:

'em, which was random cause we never sell them.

Speaker:

And it had Baltic or like Russian birch pricing.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

bridge pricing from like pre pandemic

Speaker:

That's all

Speaker:

that cost of, So I literally had to just, it was like one of the first times, I

Speaker:

just can't, I just emailed the customer.

Speaker:

I was like, I can't take this order.

Speaker:

Sorry.

Speaker:

Like we would be paying

Speaker:

you.

Speaker:

to take this and I update the price and they, it seemed

Speaker:

kind of like a scam almost.

Speaker:

Cause like the person never responded at all anyway.

Speaker:

Maybe they just didn't see it, but you would've thought if they can't, they

Speaker:

bought something and then it didn't ship.

Speaker:

They would be concerned too.

Speaker:

But anyway, it almost doubled in cost after, because of that.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Gone are the days of Baltic Birch.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

We've, we've got all of our product pricing.

Speaker:

In air table, which at times feels like a real chore, but it's from, in

Speaker:

that respect of being able to keep it updated with changing material prices,

Speaker:

cuz it's all linked to our inventory.

Speaker:

It's been really good just being able to crosscheck and look at the variance

Speaker:

of like, cool hoop pine just went up 5%.

Speaker:

What does that do to this product?

Speaker:

Okay, it's still within the right margin.

Speaker:

Let.

Speaker:

Fiddle with that price for now, but review it again in six months and see.

Speaker:

Does it go as does it go as far as each product pulls in its own cost

Speaker:

and that gets fed into Shopify?

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

Oh my God, that's amazing.

Speaker:

it's manually pushed to Shopify, like we have to, It doesn't, you know,

Speaker:

if a material price gets updated in inventory, it's not like Shopify.

Speaker:

It suddenly gets new prices.

Speaker:

consciously go, right, we're gonna update the five upright set of

Speaker:

shelves, push, you know, push this one cuz that one's now we're losing

Speaker:

money on that, or whatever it is.

Speaker:

But yeah, it is all linked, which is nice.

Speaker:

Just a little overwhelming at time

Speaker:

that's where I always find myself, like we tried to do that with Na qut.

Speaker:

frankly, like Andy built it and it was a good it.

Speaker:

He did nothing wrong, but it was so complicated to mess with

Speaker:

that I just never touched it.

Speaker:

I think I've talked about this before.

Speaker:

So now everything, the way I'd always done it, which I, I would like this air table

Speaker:

system, but frankly, if it's gonna stifle me from working on a new product now I'm

Speaker:

just like, Nah, I'll make a spreadsheet, a Google sheet I can update at any.

Speaker:

And it's not linked in any fancy ways, it's super easy to, to modify

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and edit and create and it's all a little bit more manual, but

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we don't have a million things.

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I'm sure at some point that'll become a problem, but just hasn't been worth it to

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try.

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Yeah, it's unfortunate.

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Yep.

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to be a little better than that.

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Yeah.

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Ricky's hair.

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Ah, it's really

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Sorry.

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It's

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my applause button?

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The peg holes didn't go through.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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We'll do that later.

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Sorry.

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Here.

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uh, I don't really have anything else, I guess.

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Um,

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Here.

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pretty good.

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Sounds good.

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Nice.

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Hmm.

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This is where I could wish I could just play us out with a little

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Oh my God, that'd be amazing.

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You could just have a song that looks like piano playing and

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you're just like, miming it.

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Play like Elton Jem.

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Ah, yeah.

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I'm sure there's a function for that.

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Cool.

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Alright, well, are you back to the mill?

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Yeah.

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I

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gotta finish measuring tools and then make sure that my.

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REM machining works cause I don't want to cut carbide with carbide.

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I don't think that works very well, but it, it puled it so far in there

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and it broke that I actually can machine on top of it and not hit it.

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I'm pretty sure.

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Wow.

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And somehow it didn't, like the first thing Ricky said when he came in is

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like, Did it hit the Pearson base?

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And I was like, picked it up and I was like, Oh my God.

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It didn't go through.

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Like, it just, it's, it's gonna be entombed in that.

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Yep.

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always staring at you.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, if you have advice on recovering your mill from

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a crash, I'd love to hear it

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Hmm

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and look for your fanic, Fanic and matura.

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Si Syntec ethereal halo.

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I don't know what some of these are, but those are all ones

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that potentially have this flaw.

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So look in the notes if you have one of these machines, cuz you

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could also crash your machine.

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Unfortu.

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Good.

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Well, I hope you get that Autodesk Trophy and

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would like a trophy.

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we'll see you next week.

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Yeah.

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See ya.

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It just, just keeps going.

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