Have you ever wondered who you are apart from your roles, accomplishments, or the expectations of others?

Whether you're navigating an empty nest, grieving a life transition, or simply feeling exhausted from trying to prove your worth, this conversation is an invitation to pause. Spiritual director and author Marilyn Vancil shares how God meets us in our deepest questions of identity and gently invites us to lay down the false stories we've believed so we can discover the freedom of becoming who He created us to be.

Episode Summary

Who are you when the titles you've carried begin to disappear?

After decades serving in ministry and raising four children, Marilyn Vancil entered a season where she no longer recognized herself outside of the roles she'd faithfully embraced. That painful season became the beginning of a deeper journey with Jesus—one that led her to spiritual direction, the Enneagram, and ultimately a richer understanding of what it means to find your identity in Christ.

In this honest conversation, Marilyn joins Willow to explore why self-awareness is such an essential part of spiritual growth. Together they discuss why our strongest emotional reactions often point toward deeper wounds, how our protective patterns can keep us from experiencing true freedom, and why Jesus' invitation to "lose your life to find it" isn't about becoming less yourself—it's about becoming the truest version of yourself in Him.

If you've ever felt lost after a major life transition, struggled to know who you are apart from what you do, or longed for lasting freedom from old beliefs and unhealthy patterns, this episode offers practical wisdom and deep hope. You'll be reminded that God isn't finished with your story. He's continually inviting you into greater freedom, healing, and transformation.

Meet Marilyn Vancil

Marilyn is a spiritual director, life coach, trained Enneagram teacher, and the author of Beyond the Enneagram and Self to Lose, Self to Find. For more than three decades, she's helped people discover their God-given identity through spiritual formation, biblical teaching, and self-awareness. Rather than using the Enneagram simply as a personality assessment, Marilyn approaches it as a discipleship tool that helps uncover false beliefs, unhealthy patterns, and the places where Jesus invites deeper healing. Her passion is helping people experience lasting transformation by living more fully into the person God created them to be.

Key Takeaways

• How do you find your identity in Christ instead of your roles? Learn why seasons of transition often reveal where we've placed our identity—and how God meets us there.
• Why do emotional triggers matter? Discover how your strongest reactions can reveal deeper wounds that Jesus wants to heal.
• What keeps us stuck in unhealthy patterns? Marilyn explains how our protective "false self" once kept us safe but can eventually keep us from flourishing.
• What does Jesus really mean when He says to lose your life? A fresh biblical perspective on surrender that leads to freedom instead of fear.
• How can self-awareness deepen your relationship with God? Practical ways to pause, listen, and recognize God's invitations toward transformation.

How This Episode Will Encourage You

If you've been feeling lost, overlooked, or unsure who you are anymore, you're not behind and you're not forgotten. God is still writing your story, and He's inviting you into greater freedom than you've ever imagined.

If today's conversation encouraged you, subscribe to the Collide Podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with a friend who may need the reminder that her identity has never been found in what she does—but in whose she is.

Resources + Links

Marilyn Vancil

• Website: marilynvancil.com
• Instagram: @marilynvancil

Book

• Self to Lose, Self to Find
• Beyond the Enneagram

Follow Willow: Website | Instagram | Facebook

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Welcome to the Collide Podcast. We're a growing community of everyday chicks colliding with Jesus in our mess, our pain, our joy, and our stories.

We value showing up as we truly are. So that's what you'll find here.

Walls and masks being torn down so that we can allow Jesus to meet us where we truly are and hear about other women doing the same. We can't wait to collide with you.

Stop for a moment and pause rather than reacting. Listen and wait. And in that space, I believe holy aha moments can occur.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast. I'm Willow Weston, the founder and director of Collide and I'm so excited today to have Marilyn Vancil on the pod.

Marilyn inspires women to a simple and authentic faith in Jesus and she delights in finding down to earth applications for God's word. She's a trained Enneagram teacher and the author of Self Deleuze Self Defined, which is a biblical approach to the nine Enneagram types.

She's also a spiritual director and life coach with a passion for helping others live into their true identity as a unique reflection of God's image. And so today I'm so excited to learn with you guys from Marilyn. So welcome to the podcast, Marilyn.

Well, Willow, thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here and so honored and I look forward to our conversation.

Yeah, we're super glad to have you on the podcast. How did you. Let's start with this. How did you get into the line of being a spiritual director and coach?

Oh, that's a great question. And it comes out of my own spiritual journey.

My, my basic background was that my husband and I were involved in a parachurch ministry for 30 years, Young Life. And that was so much of my formation as a believer and a follower of Jesus is and I love Young Life.

So whatever I say following our time with Young life doesn't mean anything about my young life experience. But I found myself and I also was a stay at home mom with four children.

So raised, spent my time raising them and following Jesus as best I could as a mom. And so when things changed about 14, 15 years ago and our kids went off to to college, got married, my husband left the Young Life staff.

I found myself without a real sense of my own identity and I got involved in and so I was searching and I got involved in a contemplative group and when I arrived for the first meeting of a year long cohort, I realized there was a part of me that had been asleep for a long time. And that was a quiet, contemplative part of me that hadn't been really nurtured. And I arrived at this meeting and I went. I found home.

I found my people. I found people that were on a similar spiritual journey and seeking to know God at a deeper level.

And it started me on the path of being more intentional about my inner life and learning to listen to God and to be still and to be quiet. And so as part of that, I had a spiritual director. That was one of the requirements. And that was my first introduction to spiritual direction.

And so I realized there was something there that was feeding my soul. And so I continued on with learning and growing and being, participating in these. Actually ended up being two cohorts.

And then I considered becoming a spiritual director and went into the training for that.

Marilyn, you mentioned that you moved into the season of being an empty nester and kind of found yourself without a sense of identity. What does it feel like to feel that way? What are some indicators that someone might not feel like they have a sense of identity?

Yeah, that's such a great question. And it was such a long journey for me. I mean, it really was not just a simple answer. When I.

My kids went off to school and then we left the ministry that we had been so committed to for so long, I just realized that my identity was attached to people, that it was attached to roles. It was attached to an organization. And that down deep, I really didn't know who I was with God.

And that really began a long season of searching and wondering and not even knowing why I was getting out of bed. And so there was one day that I was at home by myself. Jeff was off doing something, and I was crying. I was. Felt desperate.

And I have this big red overstuffed chair in our living room, and I was curled up in it. And I had this feeling that this chair was just floating in the ocean and that nobody even knew I was there or nobody saw me. And I was alone, afloat.

And then that's. I heard in that moment, God say that I see you and I hold you and I'm with you.

And that was really a pivotal moment where I realized that I really had been looking to other people for my identity and other roles for my identity, but that God had something new to say to me. And so it really began a search for that and recognizing that, really, bottom line is God is with me no matter what. And that's an important.

Has been an important anchor point for my identity.

We all need those red chair moments. And I love that God can almost redefine us in different seasons of our lives. And it's so interesting, I mean, because you're ahead of me.

I'm not quite an empty nester, although I have two teenagers and one who's going to leave the nest in a year, and I'm already grieving. But so interesting to hear you talk because the idea that we lose our roles can really shake a woman up.

Yeah, for sure.

And there are those hard seasons because we're, you know, I don't want to generalize women in general, but I do think the heart of women is to be nurturing and to be connected to people and to those we love and care about. And so it's really easy to become attached in that way, in a, you know, in a good way.

But also it can become a way that doesn't last because things, people come and go and it's not a solid place for identity.

Yeah. And now you are helping people find their identity in healthy places. You're helping people explore brains, those red chair moments.

And, and I have read that you say it's sacred to witness these sort of holy aha moments. Can you invite us into what an aha, A holy aha moment looks like?

It's a great question. And I. I call it holy because I believe, you know, that it's a divine encounter. When the lights turn on, you just think, aha moment and what.

How it feels it. Like something opens up, there's new clarity. It might be something you've been wrestling with and not sure about and have questions about.

All of a sudden it's like, oh. And with that comes a sense of relief, a sense of liberty, a sense, you know, I love the word clarity.

Like you just know something that you didn't know before, and things tie together in ways they didn't tie together before.

And I really, you know, I see the Holy Spirit just wanting to bring us to those holy aha moments and those revelations that we couldn't figure out on our own. And sometimes we work so hard to try to figure things out. But when we surrender and rest and listen to God and pause, I just want to. I.

One of my big words is just encouraging. People just pause, stop for a moment and pause rather than reacting, listen and wait. And in that space, I believe holy aha moments can occur.

That's such a challenge in a time where we're just going, going, going, responding, posting, scrolling,.

Accomplishing. Yeah, right. I do think this Covid season, as hard as it is and as challenging as it is.

It does give us some opportunity to pause and to just take a step back and reassess and be.

Have a little more space and to embrace that rather than seeing it as a negative or something that we've lost, but something where in the space we can gain new clarity.

So good. You lead now I get me workshops. Why do you think it's so important that we get ourselves?

Ah, that's such a good question. Well, I think we are all trying to figure out who we are and where we belong and what our purpose is. I mean, it's really the cry of the human heart.

And we can stay, be just kind of disconnected from ourselves.

And like me, I can base my identity on what other people say about me or feel about me, rather than really, really paying attention to what's going on below the surface. And some of that's hard to see and to admit, but it's so important. I can't emphasize it enough.

And I've seen so many people when they finally go, oh, that's. Yeah, that's the belief. That's a false belief I've been hanging on to my whole life.

And that's what motivates me to do this or do that and to be angry or be insecure or be envious or be resentful or be worried. All those things that take a lot of our energy.

When we can pause and recognize and take the time to go, oh, that stems from that, then we can release it, you know.

And one of the ways I put it is, you know, Paul says in the Scriptures to put up the old self and put on the new self, which is a beautiful scripture, but it's so generic. And if you don't know what your version of your old self is, how do you know how to put it off?

How do you know what you need to release and let go of and so that you can put on something new, put on your new identity. And until you know what that have a little more definition or description of that old self, you really can't. You don't know what to let go of.

What does it look like to do that kind of work, Marilyn? I mean, on the daily. What does it look like to recognize what your old self is so that you can put on your new self?

Well, it really, you know, for. And I think you're talking on a personal level, me individually, it really is stopping, especially when something is really activated.

Like, I. I had an experience the other day that just agitated me, really just, oh. And I really am still agitated about It. But. Ye. Yeah, and. But I'm. I'm bringing it instead of making it about the other people I'm bringing it to.

Like someone said last week to me, you have to look under the hood. So I'm looking under my own hood and going, what is it that is really bugging me about this?

Not just that I have a different set of opinions, but why is this catching me so dramatically in this spin of arguing with them in my head and wanting to, you know, react and do something and be angry and agitated, and I just have to go, what is it That's. That's tapping into me? And for me, I identify with type 9 on the enneagram. And often it's a feeling of I'm being. That I felt dis.

That I feel dismissed or I feel unimportant, or I don't feel valued. And so the activation happens.

And so it's really paying attention to those times when we just get caught up in a vortex of our own reactions and get taken under with them and then pausing to say, what's this all about?

You know, we talk a lot around here about practicing, you know, telling yourself other stories than the ones that you spin in your head and you're talking about. Kind of. It sounds like you had an experience where something triggered you.

It's so easy to sort of spin all these stories about the other person rather than actually like you're saying, look under the hood at the story that's really going on within you.

It's so much easier to make up stories about what's going on with other people rather than having to look at the story of what's going on within ourselves. You're a big fan of self awareness, and yes, I'm curious what you think are the common blockers of our own self awareness.

Oh, boy. Well, one of them is we don't take the time and we haven't been taught very well to do it.

And so some of it is not really having us something to go with something that, you know, maybe a structure that helps guide our looking at self awareness. I mean, I created an acronym for a process I call Own up, which is Observe, Welcome, Name, Untangle, and Possess.

And it's in my book, which we can talk about later or on my website. And it's just a way. It's not a five steps to nirvana type of thing, but it's just a way of structuring our.

Our process, you know, and thinking and giving some questions that lead us into a deeper awareness. So I think that does help. Instead of like, oh, just be self aware. Okay, whatever that. And so having some kind of a structure that helps guide it.

I think the other. Another thing is fear.

What if I uncover something about myself that I don't want to see and that might lead to more awareness of what I don't want to see? And will I have to let go of something that has been sort of a protective safeguard. My position, it kind of keeps me in a place.

If we look at it, we feel stuck.

But if, if we're not willing to look at it, you know, part of the reason we're not willing to look at it is because we hold dear to our stuff and some kind of funny way.

Yeah, I saw you. You talk about. I think I found this on your website, a protective Persona. And I don't know if that's what you're referring to, but I'd love to hear.

I think sometimes self protection feels really safe, but how you see it actually harming sometimes more than helping.

Yeah, great, great. Well, I use in my book the term adapted self and authentic self. And we as young human beings, we had to figure out a way to make it in the world.

It's not something bad. It's something necessary for us developing as young children and figuring out how to be loved, how to stay safe, how to be.

Have some sense of control and make it in the world and figure the world out. And even in the best of circumstances, we all had to do that. And there was a sense of protecting our tender heart.

In my book, I use the illustration of a seed coat of a seed. And that a seed has a seed coat around it for a reason. It protects what the potential is inside of the true seed bearing fruit.

And so as children, we created a seed coat around ourselves in a necessary way. But then, like a seed, it will never flourish if the seed coat doesn't fall off.

And there has to come a time when we start to see that the seed coat, our protective Persona, which was necessary at one time, is really holding us back from being fruitful and to being free. And that's a hard thing to see because we've depended on it so much to get us where we are. But then it stops working.

It kind of starts to backfire and doesn't really get us what we want anymore.

I am, I'm just thinking about our listeners and how scary that is. I mean, everything you're saying makes total sense.

And I know in our work with women, you see women who have these, these big dreams and, and things they hope to accomplish with their lives.

And yet they still have that protective coat around them that you're talking about that needs to shed in order for them to step in faith into those things. But so scary to let go of this self protection that you've always known your whole life.

Yeah.

And you know, there is, this takes discernment because there are places and there are situations and where we do need to be continue to be protective of ourselves. So it's not like, oh, just throw yourself out there for anything and everyone to take advantage of you or put you in, you know, unhealthy situation.

So it's not that there is a play, you know, I think there's a healthy place and a need, a needed place for discernment around what is for your best good and your best and your own safety and care. And so it's not sort of a willy nilly, oh, just stop protecting yourself. But it is getting down to the deeper story of what has have you held on to.

To protect yourself that really isn't getting you what you need. And some of that could be just, you know, be.

I've been codependent as a way of protection, but now it's really not protecting me anymore, hurting me or any of those kinds of things. Like sometimes we're. Yeah, if that makes sense.

You're. You're reading my inner life right now, Marilyn, with your words. And I love it.

Hey, when you think about what does a life that doesn't say yes to self awareness end up looking like over time?

Wow. Well, I think, you know, people can get a lot. People can be fine without self awareness.

And you know, some people feel more drawn to that than others. I think it just depends on the level of unhealth.

And if that's a term, I don't know, you know, there's a way of defining that, but you just are on autopilot. You react. I think there's the difference is that you without self awareness, you're just reacting to things.

With self awareness you're receptive to things and you're responsive.

You know, responsive in a more thoughtful way, in a more subtle, grounded way rather than just reacting and respond, you know, reacting with words, reacting with actions, reacting with attitudes. So I think the difference is between being reactionary or receptive.

That's so good. The Enneagram has become a huge tool for you in helping people become more self aware.

And you've actually been passionate about the enneagram for 30 years way. Yeah, I was trending. So that basically means you're a trendsetter.

I didn't know I was gonna be, but I guess I jumped on that. On that surfboard.

Yeah, you really did. What do you love about the Enneagram? And can invite us into what it is for those who don't know what it is?

Sure, sure. Yes.

I was introduced to the Enneagram in my late 30s at a time when I was, you know, lost like a sock in the dryer with my family and with our work and with life and the Enneagram. I was inter. My husband and I were given this dating myself a cassette of cassette tapes. And he.

I wasn't interested at all because it looked very New Agey and. But he listened to him and then said, I think you'd really like this. And so when I did, I was immediately hooked.

And what I loved about it from the start is that it really described my inner story, my inner motivations. This. It put words to what I was feeling, but I didn't know what it was. And so it really was helpful. For my husband, it was a different response.

He felt the, ugh, the conviction, like, oh, that is me, and that's where I'm stuck. And so it can have different people respond in different ways, kind of depending on what's important for them at that moment.

The thing I like about it is it does talk about nine different ways of being in the world, nine different filters. It goes below that, but it goes below the surface.

It's not about strengths and weaknesses or behaviors or favorite songs or the gift you want for Christmas, which it's kind of been trivialized into in a lot of ways through social media right now. But it should. That. It should take you below the surface, down to.

To understanding your motivations and what your inner story is and what influences the way you feel and the way you act and the way you think. And I like that about it. And I also like that there's a dynamism to the. Where you're not locked in, but there's levels or there's.

There's this growth piece to it. So it's not like you're stuck. Okay, well, I'm just a type 9. It's too bad for me the rest of my life. But what does a healthy 9 look like?

And what does an unhealthy 9 look like? So there it opens up a chance to be self aware and to notice, like, oh, boy, I am really stuck in that mindset of a. Of an unhealthy nine.

Or when I consider a healthy nine and read About a healthy nine. Ah, that's me at my best. I really like myself when I'm operating in that realm.

So there's a dynamism to it, and it's a growth model rather than just a definition model.

Super cool. I know that you describe being in the presence of watching God draw people to freedom.

Using this and other tools that you teach in your coaching work that you do with people. Can you share some stories of how you've seen God take people to places of freedom and what that looks like?

Yeah, I've had so many, and it's so exciting and it's so. I just can't even describe the. The privilege I feel of watching God, witnessing God work in people's lives.

I'm trying to think of some examples without. I don't want to put people on the spot. You know, obviously I'm not going to tell you who these people are, but from the gamut, you know, I.

People do come to me because they know I know the enneagram. So a lot of.

Not a lot of our conversations around their enneagram type, but I can certainly see that, that, that does flavor our conversation sometimes. And so I've just seen people become so aware of what hangs them up and where did those stories come from?

I like to help people get back to when did that begin that you felt like you had to, if you're a type nine, Type one, that you got messages that you needed to be perfect.

And we'll explore a story of being, you know, always the perfect student in school and got all the awards and how great it felt, but also the belief that came in that I always have to be perfect or I'm not going to be worthy of people's love and attention. And so getting down to the root of that frees them up to, oh, I don't have to be perfect. What a concept.

And letting it go and just seeing people just lighten up on themselves. And I like to think of it as setting them free from something and setting them free to something, if that makes sense.

So from the false beliefs, the avoidances, the attachments, setting being set free from those, whatever they are as. As we begin to identify them, and then freedom to become free, you know, or be all that God has designed them to be in a free.

In a free form, not a restricted form. Yeah, I don't. I, you know, I don't know if you'd like more specific stories.

No, that's great. That's great. That's awesome. I mean, even your example of Someone having to go backwards.

We just came out with a Bible study around here, and one of the chapters is on sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward. That question of when did you form this story or how did this story come to be that you felt like you had to be perfect?

I mean, we all have different stories we picked up along the way. And to have to go back and revisit those so we can be freed up to move away from those into something else.

I can see that the work you do in people's lives is so amazing. And so I want to have some time to talk to you about this book that you've come out with. Can you tell us all about it?

Sure, I'd be happy to. Well, I never planned on writing a book in my whole life. That was not something on my bucket list. In fact, when I.

And when I was early on, I really teaching the Enneagram because I really wanted to bring Jesus into the Enneagram. I knew it. And then my own personal journey was, well, how does this fit with my life with Jesus? And so that was a long search as well.

And then during this period of time that I'm talking about where I was at sea in my red chair and just at sea in my own spiritual life, I was doing some teaching on the Enneagram. And people said, oh, you should write a book. You should write a book. Why would I write a book? There's plenty of Enneagram books out there.

Don't need to write a book.

And then I was processing the scripture of Jesus, saying, and this was that holy aha moment that came to me is when Jesus said, because you save your life, you'll lose it. If you lose your life for my sake, you'll find it. And it just hit me one day, he's inviting us to find something.

And so much of my upbringing, or my perception of the gospel, if you will, gospel of Jesus was that you're supposed to deny yourself and get rid of yourself because all of you is just bad. And I was resisting that at the time and feeling like, well, am I really all. But I'm still here.

So who is the here that's here, if you know what I'm saying? And then when I realized Jesus is inviting people, oh, just get rid of that old stuff so that you can find something.

And I woke up with more one morning with this. There's a self to lose and a self defined. And I knew that was the book that I was supposed to write. And so I.

And I realized in that moment also that I was called to bring the Enneagram into that as a tool, just as a tool to help us live that out. As a follower of Jesus, how do we lose ourselves? How do we know what to lose? And what are we invited to find? And I just kind of saw it all there.

I self published it and in a month it is being republished by Random House, which is amazing because they call me.

Wow. How exciting. Marilyn, this is so exciting.

Yeah. And I'm writing another book too.

Oh, no big deal. Just the girl who said she would never write a book. Are you saying what your next book is about?

Well, it's still in formation, but it will be a writing around. It won't be on the Enneagram. The Enneagram will be included. I think there's enough resources on the Enneagram.

But what is transformation like and inner healing? Similar. Something to, you know, similar to.

The conversation we're having right now is what is it to live and be transformed from glory to glory, to more and more of who God calls us to be, and it's created us to be. And part of that is going, is recognizing the patterns and the habitual ways that we react in the world and how do we become healed from those?

So something like that.

I love that your book is based on Jesus's words about being willing to lose our life to find it.

And I. I'm just curious, what do you see as the things we hold on to so tightly in life that they actually can begin to steal the life we're holding on to right out from underneath us?

Well, our old self is a pretty tough cookie in terms of. It's pretty strong and our ego is strong. And so we want to hold on to those protective barriers that we talked about earlier.

We want to hold on to our resentments, we want to hold onto our wounds. We want to hold on to our. The, you know, things that have been done against us. We aren't.

It's hard to forgive because it feels like letting go of something. I mean, these are all things that Jesus invites us to and talks about.

I mean, if you go through the Sermon on the Mount, which are just such profound words, you see all kinds of things that he's saying to let go of, of worry, boasting, you know, how do you look in public Judgment, letting go of judgment. There's all kinds of things he's saying you got to let go of. And he says if you Practice these things. You'll be like a house built on a rock.

And you won't be just, you know, responding to the shifting sand and having your house fall down when crisis hits.

And I think it's, you know, if we look at it that way, we can see the things that Jesus is inviting us to live into, but they're not easy, they're supernatural. To be able to forgive and not judge and not worry and be. Speak quiet and in our closet rather than out there parading our successes. I mean, so many.

I, I actually just went through the, the Sermon on the Mountain.

I saw that, you know, obviously Jesus wasn't talking about the Enneagram, but I saw nine different habits of the nine enneagram types represented in the Sermon on the Mount and the challenges that Jesus presents to live differently.

You know, it's so interesting to hear you talk because I feel like your message is almost an epiphany, a new way of understanding Jesus's words, because I think I like you. And probably many people listening have always heard the words where Jesus talks about being willing to lose our life, to find it as self denial.

And surely Jesus invites us to some, some practices that require self denial.

But at the same time, the idea of losing your resentment, losing your anger, losing your pride, losing the lies you that have stuck to you since you were little, those are kind of new ideas of things to learn. As far as those words of Jesus go, they almost make the invitation so appealing.

Yes. And that's what. And you'll, you know, if you read my book, I'll send you my new copy.

Yeah,.

Yeah.

I break down the words of Jesus to, you know, that's often is translated deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow me. And the word deny there is actually. The Greek word is more disown than deny. And I call those that.

Those are three invitations of Jesus to disown yourself, take up your cross daily and follow me. They're invitations, they're not commandments, they're not heavy burdens. He's saying, oh, just come on, do this.

I'm inviting you to something so great and you'll, you'll live into your very real self. And it's always sounded so ominous to do it, you know, to deny yourself and oh, carry this heavy cross.

And oh, following you means I have to be obedient. And it can feel like a drudgery, which is no, you know, who wants to do that? It's not very appealing.

But I think Jesus, if we really look at his life, he he's just saying, come on, let go of all that stuff because I've got something so much better for you, and you'll be free. Indeed.

When you think about Jesus inviting us into that life, the life that we have the opportunity to find, what are some words on the other side of our. Yes. That you think we'll experience? I mean, you said freedom. What are some other words to describe that life that's waiting for us?

Well, I think, you know, Paul listed the fruits of the Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit.

I think we have more joy. I think we can love fully with, you know, think about First Corinthians 13, and we can be patient, more patient. We're courageous.

We live with contentment, generosity, trust, faith, focused action. So many really, you know, of course, back to the fruits of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self control, gentleness, faithfulness.

All those qualities that we really admire and value and appreciate, seen in other people, well, those were for us to have and to live into. So really letting go of resentment, like, just let go of it and guess what? You'll enjoy peace, joy, love. But it feels like it's a lot to let go of.

But when you let go of it, you realize it was just a vapor, really wasn't anything of substance.

You know, you clearly believe that change is possible in people's lives.

And I'm curious, when you think about those listening who are yearning for real change, change in their lives, what's your greatest hope that you want to leave with them today.

That change is possible? I think the hope I want to leave with them is in that verse in 2nd Corinthians 5:17. I hope that's it. 3:17.

I always forget, I always lose track of the Scriptures. But where it says that where the Spirit of the Lord is, there's freedom.

And that we all with unveiled faces, which means we have open faces, we're honest and open, unveiled faces are being transformed from glory to glory into the image of God. And I'm not quoting that very clearly, but that's the gist of it.

But the transform from glory to glory, that that's your destiny, that's the purpose, that's what you're being given to do. And if I can break those words down a little bit, glory in the Hebrew Scriptures means weight or substance, heaviness.

And so if you're being transformed from glory to glory, you're being transformed from more and more substance or weight, you know, internal weight, presence. And then the New Testament word for that, for Glo is being recognized for who you really are.

So when Jesus brings glory to God, Jesus is showing us what God is really like. And so if we're being transformed from glory to glory, we're being transformed into who we truly are.

We were created to be as reflections of God's image and that that's our destiny to move from that. We are being transformed from glory to glory. And there's a need for surrender to that and longing for that. So.

And sometimes we have to get to the point where we're desperate. You know, Jesus, the people Jesus healed were desperate.

They came to him because they were done with their pain, they were done with their suffering, and they wanted relief. And like I did. I had to come to a place where I was just desperate. And then that's when God says, okay, here we are.

Let me, me, let me lead you on a, on a different path.

I love that you're a living example of your message because to go full circle as we come to a close here.

Pretty soon, you began our conversation talking about getting to this place where you didn't know who you were anymore because your roles were, were kind of taken from you. You fell into this, this season where you didn't know who you were anymore. And I think in a lot of ways, especially for women, we can fall.

Trapped to believe that, you know, we are what we do or we are what we look like or, oh, like my time is done. I, you know, my work is over. And the idea that God is transforming us from glory to glory means that transformation journey never ends.

God's never done with us. He's. He's always inviting us into, more, into something new, into becoming more of who we're destined to be.

And sometimes we so easily just write the story off as though it's over when we're in chapter seven still.

Yes, yes, Amen to that.

I just love that you. You said yes to that invitation and now you're inviting all of us, us into that.

Marilyn and I know that so many people listening to this podcast are going to want to grab a copy of your book. So how can they do that?

Well, right now it's the old version. The original version is not available on Amazon. It will, but you can pre order it.

If you go to my [email protected] then you'll see all the information there on how to pre order the book, the new book, which is going to be fantastic.

That's awesome. When's your. When's Random House releasing The new version?

September 1st.

Very cool, very cool. Everyone copy. Yeah.

Marilyn, thank you for hanging out and inviting us into our own inner lives today, into a deeper conversation about who we have been and who God is becoming of us. And I just appreciate who you are and what you're doing in the world. And I'm excited to read your book and so glad you hung out with us.

Well, it was my honor and my privilege.

And thank you for all you're doing to encourage women to step into their truest self and to seek God and find the deeper meaning and the deeper purpose for their lives.

Those of you listening keep colliding. Heed the radical call of Jesus to lose parts of yourself to find the life you're made to live. And we'll catch you next week on the podcast.

Thanks for tuning in to keep up with us.

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