Streamlining Podcast Production with Expert Joe Casabona

Summary

In this episode of Present Influence, host John Bull interviews Joe Casabona, a well-respected figure in the podcasting world. Joe shares his journey into podcasting, starting from 2009, and the lessons he's learned along the way. The conversation focuses on how to streamline podcast workflows, the importance of systems and processes, and leveraging AI tools effectively. Joe provides actionable advice for podcasters struggling with production, emphasizing the importance of documentation, automation, and delegation. He also touches on the potential for monetizing podcasts, the value of podcast guesting, and best practices for promoting episodes. The episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to make podcasting easier and more efficient.

Joe's Offer

Get Joe's workflows mentioned in the episode at https://podcastworkflows.com/john

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Show

00:41 Meet Joe Casabona: Podcasting Expert

02:41 Joe's Journey into Podcasting

04:27 Making a Living from Podcasting

06:08 Streamlining Podcast Production

18:07 The PER Method for Efficiency

22:22 The Importance of Automation

24:23 AI Tools in Podcasting

25:26 Leveraging AI in Podcasting

25:53 AI for Research and Content Creation

27:51 Post-Production and Promotion with AI

31:19 The Importance of Editing in Podcasting

35:45 Monetizing Your Podcast

41:08 Guesting on Podcasts: Best Practices

48:37 SEO and Promotion Strategies

51:08 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Takeaways

Joe started podcasting after realizing his friends were learning from podcasts.

He emphasizes the importance of iterating and improving over time.

Podcasters can leverage their shows to attract clients and build authority.

Automation and delegation are key to managing podcast production effectively.

The PER method helps streamline podcast processes: Perform, Evaluate, Remove.

AI tools can assist in research and content creation but should not replace personal input.

Guesting on podcasts can be a valuable strategy for exposure and networking.

Polished content is essential for establishing thought leadership in podcasting.

Monetization can come from various sources, including sponsorships and affiliate marketing.

SEO is crucial for making podcasts discoverable online.

Visit https://presentinfluence.com to find out more

Thanks for listening and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Welcome to the show.

2

And today I am going to be speaking with

a guest who have some great insight into

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how to make podcasting easier for you.

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So if you are.

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A podcast that then this is going

to be very interesting for you.

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And if you're thinking about

having a podcast and realistically.

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Lots of coaches and speakers

and business presenters are.

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And if that's you and you're on

the verge of, should I do it?

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Shouldn't I do it.

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This episode might just help you make

your decision when you see how easy

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it is to take some of the pain out

of the workflow in having a show.

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So in this episode, we're

going to be talking about how

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to streamline your workflow.

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If you have a podcast and how to

make life easier for podcasting,

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if you want to start one.

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My guest today is Joe Casabona and

I've been following Joe for some time.

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He gives some really good advice to

podcast is on how to get great results

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and how to produce a quality show as well

as making the whole process smoother.

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Now systems and processes are not

most people's forte, certainly not

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mine, but when you have good ones

in place, they can free up a lot of

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time and take away a lot of stress.

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And by the end of this episode,

you're going to know how to

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have an efficient podcast.

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And Joe's going to share where you can

go to get some additional resources

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to help you systemize your workflow.

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That might be useful for more

things, then just podcasting.

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You'll also find out how we're

utilizing AI in our podcast workflows.

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So welcome to present influence the

show that helps coaches, speakers, and

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business leaders develop the communication

skills to influence and inspire.

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My name is John bull keynote

coach professional speaker.

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And your guide on this journey

to mastery level communication

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and presentation skills.

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My mission is to provide professional

communicators like you with everything you

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need to maximize your impact and present

with influence part of the show on your

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favorite podcast app for weekly episodes

and interviews with influence experts.

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Joe welcome on present influence.

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I've been looking forward

to speaking to you.

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I've been following you for a while.

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I think I make may have mentioned

this to you when we first spoke, but

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you are someone who's pretty well

respected in the podcasting world is

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knowing what you do like a systems guy.

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Everyone says you need

to be following Joe.

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And I did and you do you put out

some really good value stuff.

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So I'm very happy to be

speaking with you today.

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Joe Casabona: Thanks so much for having

me and thanks for the kind words.

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I really appreciate that.

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I basically just try to share

everything I'm doing in hopes

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that I save people time and pain.

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John: you do a very good job with

that and I know your, your journey

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to podcasting wasn't necessarily

the smoothest ride and you've been

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making it a lot smoother for yourself.

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so for our listener, just a little

bit about how you, maybe how you

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got into podcasting and what was

going on there that led you down

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the path that you've now gone on.

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Joe Casabona: Yeah, so I got

into podcasting after I was

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talking to a few friends.

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This was like 2009, 2010.

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We had this thing called a hog fest

where we would roast a whole pig over

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Labor Day weekend here in the States.

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But one night we were just out

and we were talking and I noticed

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that all my friends knew things

outside of their area of expertise

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in a way that I didn't feel I did.

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And I said, how do you

know all this stuff?

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And they're like, we listened to podcasts.

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And I'm like, Oh, cool.

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So started listening to more podcasts

and I did the thing that I think

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everybody does after they listened to

podcasts for a while, which is they say.

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I could have a podcast.

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I started a podcast.

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It went very poorly.

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It closed.

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It was like a panel podcast.

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It was poorly moderated

because I'm a bad moderator.

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But a couple years later, I

actually started a proper one.

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And my dad, you said I

had a rough go at first.

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Yeah, my dad says I'm

a bull in a china shop.

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I just I do things.

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They say measure twice, cut once.

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I.

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Measure once and cut twice, or I

cut and then measure, whatever.

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Ready, fire, aim, is what I generally do.

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I say, basically, I've decided

that anything I do on the

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internet is fixable, largely.

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Posting stuff on the internet will

always be posted on the internet,

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but as far as launching projects.

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I can try and iterate, and so

that's essentially what I did.

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I just launched the podcast,

so I would launch it.

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And then I've spent the, the next 12 years

or so fixing all the things that I happen

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to find that could need improvement.

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And I share what I'm thinking

about as I'm fixing those things.

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John: Am I right that you're pretty much

a full time podcaster these days, yeah?

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Joe Casabona: Yeah, I think that's right.

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I guess if we count like the consulting

I do, which is mostly for podcasters.

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I would say, yes, I have a few podcasts

and I help people with their podcasts.

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John: Yeah.

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And what, what is it realistically

like being a consultant as well,

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but I mean, is it possible to make

a living from podcasting these days?

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I guess is what I want to ask.

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Joe Casabona: Yeah, that's

a really good question.

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I think there are definitely a few ways

that you can make money podcasting.

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I would say in the sake of full

transparency, I have not been able

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to have my sole income come from

just my podcasts, that makes sense.

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But I do get sponsorship

money from my podcasts.

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I get affiliate.

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Income from my podcasts, the main thing I

have a light membership will say I don't

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treat that as appreciable money, but

it's something I'm trying I think by and

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large, the best way for small independent

podcasters to make money is to use the

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podcast to leverage their expertise.

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And get clients.

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And so that's always been my goal

of at least one of my shows, right?

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Is show people, Hey, I really

know what I'm talking about.

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If you want me to help you join my

mailing list or hire me as your coach.

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And I think if you do that you can

definitely make a living off of

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we'll say leveraging your podcast as

a marketing tool for your services.

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John: Yeah, I definitely want to get into

a bit more about what you do and, and how

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you do things because it's, it's super

interesting to me, but I want to give

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some basis to that for, for some of our

listeners as well, who either maybe have

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a podcast and are struggling with it or

not really seeing, feeling the benefits of

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it or thinking about starting one thing.

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And I don't know if this is

really going to be worth the time.

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What would your general advice be that

you think it's valuable for particularly

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for business owners and professionals

to have some kind of podcast?

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Joe Casabona: I do, because I think

it's valuable for business owners

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and coaches to, to create content.

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And I think having a podcast can be a easy

way to create multiple pieces of content.

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If that makes sense.

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So If your goal is, I want to get millions

of downloads, and I want to be the next

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Joe Rogan, or I want to be the next Conan

O'Brien, or the next Talk to a Girl, maybe

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I'm really time stamping this, I can't

imagine that show's gonna last very long.

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But then it's not worth it probably,

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John: yeah,

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Joe Casabona: Cause that's gonna take

a lot of time and effort, and you're

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gonna have to get famous by going

viral doing something disgusting.

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But if you're looking for it to support

your business, absolutely, because you

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are creating content and you're being

generous with your time and you're

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showing people, you have an expertise in

something and no matter, as long as you

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have a handful of downloads and you're

reaching those people and you're showing

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up, then that could lead to client work.

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And so I think that is

that absolutely worth it.

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If you're using a podcast

to support your business.

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John: Yeah, I would,

I would tend to agree.

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I think it can be great for positioning

and it can also be great for networking

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and connecting with other people.

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One of the things that perhaps doesn't

make it so great or does put a lot of

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people off is the, is the work side of it.

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It's like, yeah, you can get some great

content and you can repurpose it, but

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there can still be a lot of work that

goes into the production or that.

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And this is really one of the things that

you have dug into and I'd say made a, made

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a big splash in how you approach things.

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And, and that is now what you

essentially consult people on and

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making this a more doable thing.

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So why did you, why did you start down

that path yourself and what kind of things

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are you generally doing to help people to

simplify for their own podcast production?

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Big question.

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Sorry.

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That's

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Joe Casabona: Yeah.

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So two things that you should know

about me as we move into this is

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that I over engineer a lot of things

and so I love building systems.

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And the other thing is that whenever I see

a problem I absolutely have to solve it.

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It drives my wife crazy when she like

wants to just talk and like vent.

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And I'm like, what if we did this?

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And she's I don't want the solution.

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I'm like, alright, understood.

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So I'm always looking for

solutions to big problems.

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This solution came when I had

a big problem in November,

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2020, I had a panic attack.

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My wife is a nurse.

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We had two kids at the time.

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We now have three and I was

struggling because they weren't

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in school while my son was just

a few months old at that point.

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And I wasn't working on my business.

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My business was more

than half of our income.

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And I wasn't, I didn't

feel I was doing enough.

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And so I had all of this on my

mind, staying at home with your

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kids, like 24 seven is really hard

no matter how much you love them.

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And I had a panic attack.

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And so as I'm sitting on the floor in

my kitchen, like crying and rocking

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my three year old daughter at the

time, she's my oldest comes over

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and brings me a bottle of water and

a towel and says, it's okay, daddy.

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Everything's going to be okay.

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And I thought this is not okay to me.

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My children shouldn't

have to take care of me.

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And so I, the next day I could

work, I forget what her, my wife's

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schedule worked out to that, but the

next day I could work, I hired a VA.

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And I made a list of everything I did

and I put a check box next to the two or

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three things that absolutely I had to do.

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And then I decided to automate

or delegate everything else.

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And so this took some time.

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My VA came on and onboarded.

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I used tools like Zapier and make.

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com to automate as many

processes as possible.

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Fast forward about a year

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Our youngest daughter, Abigail

was born on Christmas Eve and

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I took an entire month off.

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To spend with my family and I wasn't

stressed and I didn't have a panic

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attack because I knew over that 13

months, I put the systems in place

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that I needed to help my business

run a little bit more on autopilot.

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John: Thank you for sharing.

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I mean, it's quite a vulnerable story,

but a really powerful one that you shared

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there that led to ultimately to a big

breakthrough for you that you and I

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are helping other people to have those

kind of breakthroughs for themselves.

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Joe Casabona: Yeah.

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John: Why do you think people

don't do more of that anyway?

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Joe Casabona: I think if they're

anything like me they may not see the

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problem until it becomes a big problem.

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Or they think they can muscle through it.

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Before that I was like, I'm

a man, I can do it, right?

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Like very I'm John Wayne

or whatever, right?

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Like men don't cry.

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I can do it.

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But ultimately it's probably

that it's a slow pile up that you

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don't realize is happening, right?

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Going from one to two kids, for

example yes, that's hard, but

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quote unquote, how hard is it?

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And okay it's the pandemic and

I'm skipping a couple of weeks for

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my podcast and people understand,

even though everybody during

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the pandemic started a podcast.

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People will understand, but then

I start to think, Oh I really need

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to get this episode out and, Oh,

I haven't done out like proactive

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outreach for sponsors in a while.

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And 30 to 40 percent of my income

came from sponsors at the time.

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And I really haven't locked

down a client in a while.

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Cause I've been off and now I'm

like, Oh my God, we're about to enter

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Christmas and I'm not making any money.

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How am I supposed to support my

family moving into the next year?

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And that's when it all, and then the

kids are crying and I'm trying to be

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dad, but I'm not fully focused on being.

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And so like things pile up,

and they don't see it coming.

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And so I want to help people never have

to see it coming, I want to alleviate

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that stress before it becomes a problem.

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John: Do you think that maybe sometimes

there's a bit of a control element

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that some people have with their

podcasts or maybe even a financial

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concern about spending out money on

getting other people to help with this?

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Joe Casabona: Oh yeah.

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As far as like why they don't

actually do the thing, even though

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like people like you and I are

probably telling them to do the thing.

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Absolutely.

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Control is one, right?

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Nobody can edit the podcast

like I can, or nobody's going

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to gather the right show notes.

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I hate to break it to you, but

unless you're an audio engineer.

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A lot of people are going to

do it better than you can.

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And as far as like gathering the

show notes, like that's, as long as

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you're clear with your instructions,

anybody can do that, right?

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The only thing that you offer that

other people won't do as well as you

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is your perspective and your voice.

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Which is like a hard truth, right?

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Nobody wants to told

them they're not unique.

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Think of it in like a, as in it's playoff

season here in the United States for if

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you're a baseball fan, I love baseball.

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And there are nine guys in that lineup

and most of them hit pretty well.

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Some hit better than others, but most of,

they can all hit a major league fastball.

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And so the ability to hit is not

the thing that makes them unique.

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Their approach is what makes them unique.

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Aaron Judge hits homeruns really well.

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Jazz Chisholm Jr.

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gets on the bases and then runs real fast.

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Some guys can hit it in the opposite

direction and drive in runs that way.

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That's the unique thing that

they bring to the lineup.

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Not just the ability to

do some basic thing well.

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John: Yeah, I feel more and more the

longer I've been podcasting, the more

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important it is to understand how there

needs to be some level of uniqueness to

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what you bring to the podcasting world.

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I was recently reading a new audio book.

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Listings to actually say a new audio

book from one of my favorite storytelling

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experts that I call Matthew Dicks I don't

know if you've heard of Matthew But he

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has some really really good content on

storytelling And one of the things that

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he is saying in there is that you know

on stage whatever whatever reason you are

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And you could take this as podcasting as

well we should always assume that people

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don't want to hear from you So we have

to give them a reason to want to hear

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from you, to hear what you have to say.

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And I think far too, far too many

people miss that and just think, you

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know, they have a bit more of a sort

of field of dreams sort of thing.

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If we make it, they

will, they will listen.

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Which isn't the case, right?

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I mean, just, just isn't.

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Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely.

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My friend Chris Lemma he actually

Runs the conference that I just got

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home from it's called Cabo press.

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It's amazing but he was Giving me pointer.

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We both spoke at an event and he was

giving me pointers and He said So you

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opened with who you are and what you do.

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No one in that room cares about

you They're there for the topic.

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So plus the person just introduced you.

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They probably already said that stuff

What you want to do is hook them with

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a story This is why I started with

what I, the story I remember most him

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telling is one about Reggie Jackson,

because again, I love baseball.

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And that he was right, that story like

drew me into his talk and he didn't

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tell us who he was until the end

after we cared because, wow, you're

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really smart and you have really good

insight and I think you can help me.

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So spot on that advice.

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Like no one cares about you

until you give them a reason to.

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So give them a reason to.

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John: We wish more people would have

that approach in podcasting, but

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it's like you said, hard lessons.

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These are hard lessons to learn.

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Joe Casabona: Yeah, everyone's the

hero in their own story, right?

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And you need to realize that you might

be the hero in your story, but you're

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not the hero in your listener's story.

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John: Yeah, it's, it's always fascinating

when I work with clients that some of

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the human, and I work with speakers

and some of my clients are experienced

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in speaking, but they're not always

experienced in all the different

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kinds of speaking that there are.

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So when, when they're transitioning,

especially from like a workshop

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scenario into a keynote scenario.

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Or if they're being podcast guests

or something like that, things they

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may not be used to doing There's very

different approaches and things that

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need to come into it and you can't

always see yourself clearly so I think

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sometimes we do need to have an External

perspective and we do need to know

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like some self evaluation is great.

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But it's we need more than that.

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We need some External input as well

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Joe Casabona: Yeah.

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John: I'm very, very aware that a

lot of people who want to do this

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podcasting thing will be thinking,

you know, that would come back to

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like the work that's involved with it.

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You, you said earlier, you created a

whole list of all the things that you

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did and essentially passed as much of

that onto a VA as, as you possibly could

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for anyone who is like thinking, well,

I have a show and struggling with it.

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And sometimes maybe finding it

hard to get the episodes out on

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time or to get everything done.

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Where do you, where would you start

with someone in that sort of position?

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Like what's the first thing

they should really look to do?

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Joe Casabona: Yeah, this

is a great question.

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And it's hard to, like you just said

it's hard to see, you need like this

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external influence sometimes, right?

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It's hard to read the label from

inside the bottle If you're in the

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thick of it and you don't take a step

back to be like, what am I even doing?

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Then you're never gonna

get out of this cycle.

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So the first thing you do is Write

everything that you do down Make make

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sure that you are documenting every

step in your process Because only then

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will you have a full understanding

of exactly what you're doing here.

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By the way, this process is

something I called the PER method.

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So P E R.

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The first letter P stands for perform.

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You actually want to perform

everything that you're doing, right?

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Make a list of everything

you're doing, perform it.

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Write it down, document

what you do, right?

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And then ask what are the

inputs and what are the outputs.

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Because then you really

understand what you're doing.

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Evaluate is the E in per.

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And that's do you need to do it?

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Can only you do it, right?

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Those are two different questions.

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But they are, the answer to those

two things are going to help you

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simplify, automate, and delegate.

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So do you need to do it?

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Is this a step I really need to take?

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If not, throw it out.

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And if it's a task that needs to be done,

but other people can do it, now it's

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ready for automation and delegation.

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You're also gonna ask

yourself are the inputs clear?

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Are the outputs clear?

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Can another person do it

or can a computer do it?

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This is all in the evaluation phase.

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You're figuring out, Okay I

book, how do I book guests?

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I email the guest I want to have and

I say, Hey, what times work for you?

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And then they're like, I'm open anytime.

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And then you, okay.

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What about like Wednesday at 4 PM?

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Yeah.

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4 PM.

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Are you, where are you?

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Are you on the Eastern

in the Eastern time zone?

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No.

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I'm in Arizona.

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Okay.

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Is it November?

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Who knows what time it is

in Arizona in November?

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Okay.

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I did that.

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I can probably make that

easier by using a scheduler.

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So you're going to do this

for everything that you do.

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This is going to take some time, but at

the end, you're going to have a list of

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things and processes that you perform.

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So that's perform and evaluate.

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The R is remove.

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If you don't need to do the task,

if you personally don't need

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to do the task, determine if a

person or a computer should do it.

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If the inputs are the same every time

and the outputs are the same every

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time, A computer can do it, right?

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So if it's okay a name and email

address and a time for us to meet

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are the inputs and an output as a

calendar invite then, okay, great.

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I can delegate that to cal.

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com or Zapier or whatever.

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I know Zapier.

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If they aren't clear, then like a human

being probably has to do it, right?

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So like when I edit my podcast,

it's not just do these five

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things, exactly what I mean.

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My editor actually has to go

through and edit the podcast.

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Then you can remove it from your list.

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And the last thing I'll say here

before someone says, Hey, but

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what if it's stuff I want to do?

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Yeah there's some

personal preference here.

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I can delegate the sponsorship

outreach or the guest outreach.

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And I don't.

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Because I feel those

relationships are too important.

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I use Podmatch, I think that's

how we got linked up, right?

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I use Podmatch to surface

things more easily, surface

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shows and people more easily.

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But I don't delegate that.

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Because especially if I'm about

to ask a sponsor for five figures.

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I want them to know

that they're getting me.

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And that I'm there to help them.

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I don't want some assi like some

virtual assistant or some automated

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CRM, AI bot thing reaching out to them.

408

There is some nuance there, but what

you don't want to fall into is like

409

the Marie Kondo, everything sparks joy,

so I'm gonna keep everything, right?

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John: Yeah.

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Joe Casabona: there's only probably

three or four things that you personally

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really need to do, or Want to do

because it benefits your business.

413

John: As you speak, one of the things

that was coming up for me, I think,

414

you know, well, if I was, if I was

in that position where I was sort of

415

consulting and stuff like that, we need

to get all of your processes done and

416

it's just like, I know I need to do it.

417

The resistance that comes up straight away

for me is I'm going to have to slow down.

418

This is going to take ages to get all

these systems down, even though I know

419

it's absolutely going to be worth it.

420

But we do really have to slow

down to be able to speed up as

421

paradoxical as that sounds, right?

422

Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely.

423

I think of, I heard this on modern

family but slow is smooth and smooth as

424

fast is something that Phil would say.

425

The patriarch of the,

let's say the main family.

426

And it's absolutely true.

427

And like I, I sent an email out

actually just today for my newsletter

428

called one small step for you.

429

And it's, Yeah, I talk about my ridiculous

like Rube Goldberg machine and my dozens

430

of automations and stuff like that.

431

I have been automating

for eight years now.

432

Explicitly automating for

my business, I should say.

433

I've been automating in some way,

shape or form for 20 years because I

434

was a programmer in a previous life.

435

You don't need to start

with something wild, right?

436

You can start with a two step automation.

437

That updates a status in Notion, right?

438

It doesn't need to be a lot.

439

It is an incremental thing.

440

And over time, yeah, you'll be

saving a ton of time every week.

441

But for now, I would look at

what's low hanging fruit, or

442

what's the biggest impact.

443

If you're not using a scheduling link,

that is going to have just an incredible

444

amount of impact on your process.

445

Cause you don't have to worry about

the time zone dance or communicate.

446

You just say, grab a time here

and everything else is handled.

447

It'll take an hour to set up,

but everything else is handled.

448

John: Yeah, I think my, my annual

investment in Calendly has paid

449

dividends for being able to arrange,

I like to do, I like to do my pre

450

interviews, and usually, usually we can

set up the interview time if we move

451

ahead from, from there, which is, for

me, just a nice, easy way to do it.

452

People can select their own time

for the pre interview, make sure

453

that happens, and then we can flow

into booking the show from there.

454

What are your thoughts on AI

tools that are around right now.

455

And, and again, this could six

months time, a year's time, it

456

could all look very different.

457

Right.

458

But, but currently there's

a lot of AI tools around.

459

I don't know.

460

It's some of it's fairly new.

461

What, what's your take on

what's available right now?

462

Joe Casabona: Yeah, great question.

463

And I've been getting this as you

can imagine a lot more lately, right?

464

I am AI hesitant, right?

465

Because I think when, where.

466

As we record this, we're just

shy of the two year anniversary

467

of chat TPT becoming public.

468

It feels weird.

469

It feels way longer than

two years, but it's, it was

470

November, 2022 that it launched.

471

And basically from that moment, there are

people who were like, I'm an AI expert.

472

And you can write your

book in 48 hours with AI.

473

And I'm like, I hate to break it to you,

but if you want to write, if you want

474

to write literally anything, yeah, sure.

475

If you want to write something worth

reading, that's, it's not gonna.

476

That ain't it.

477

And the same thing goes for podcasting.

478

People are like, oh yeah like with

ai, we can do this or we can have it.

479

Write our scripts for us.

480

No.

481

AI is your intern.

482

AI is not your CMO, right?

483

Or your senior content writer.

484

AI is your intern.

485

And so if you're a podcaster or a

small business owner and you're like,

486

Hey, how can I leverage podcasting or

leverage AI to help with my podcast?

487

There are a few ways.

488

One is research, right?

489

Have If you're thinking of a topic, create

an outline, and say to your favorite

490

chapa of the day, Hey I am thinking

about doing a podcast episode on this.

491

Here's the basic outline I came up with.

492

By the way, my show, if you

don't know, is about this.

493

What am I missing, right?

494

I always like to ask, what am I missing?

495

Because this gives me, this is what

the large language model is best at.

496

It's not good at inventing things.

497

It invents things all the time.

498

It's good at getting a

perspective that you don't have.

499

And it could surface ten things

and three of those are completely

500

fabricated, but seven are okay.

501

You're like, oh yeah, I

didn't think about that.

502

Let me noodle on that.

503

I've also used it to come up with

like listener avatars, right?

504

So it's my show is for this.

505

Give me an avatar.

506

And I swear to you, when I rebranded my

podcast, it invented a single mom named

507

Jenny, who was 38, who worked a job.

508

And had a podcast and wanted to spend

time with her seven year old daughter.

509

And I'm like, I know this person, I know

Jenny, like she's in my neighborhood.

510

And so I think it's really good at that.

511

And then on the other side is when you,

if you're into scripting, it's that,

512

if that's your thing for your podcast,

I think that AI is good at punching up

513

your first draft which I wouldn't have

said probably like three months ago, but.

514

Now at least with the latest version of

ChatsGBT I'm using I give it something

515

and I'm like, hey How can I fix this and

it gives it does give me a better version

516

now So maybe it's finally learned how I

write or maybe because it's using what

517

I've written it gets me, it knows where to

fix but I've had good interactions there.

518

So I think like research and like

fixing or adding to what you've

519

written are both really good things.

520

And then finally, on the post production

AI side or on a promotion side.

521

They're like some clip makers

out there, we both use Riverside.

522

John: yeah.

523

Joe Casabona: It's fine.

524

It's I don't think it's going

525

John: that.

526

Joe Casabona: Yeah Descript is

maybe better for that, I think.

527

But oh, but only because it like

basically builds the template.

528

It doesn't get the moment exactly right.

529

So I think if you're going in and

thinking like, oh, I'll just give it my

530

episode and then it'll give me 10 clips.

531

I can share it won't like

it'll give you two clips.

532

You can share and then eight

clips that you need to adjust

533

in some way, shape or form.

534

And at that point, I'm like,

you know what, like the juice

535

isn't worth the squeeze.

536

I'd rather just record my own

short form video talking about

537

the episode and release that.

538

John: Yeah.

539

I tend to find I, I love using, I use,

I actually use a mix usually of Descript

540

and Riverside for my show notes now.

541

And it saves me so much time and you

still have to read the stuff through

542

Because there are certain times where it

just says something something and it's

543

like that is not how a person speaks

And you do have to change that and I

544

have seen people putting out show notes

that very clearly haven't been checked

545

for From the ai that have done it.

546

I think it's a very good idea It doesn't

take long to just give it a bit of a

547

read through But things like no youtube

descriptions for clips and videos

548

that are put out It just saves so much

time that's probably where worries

549

it most I mean, I think these scripts

sort of has the other other ai bits

550

in there that I do like and their clip

creation Yeah, i'd probably agree like

551

usually three out of the five clips.

552

I usually get it to create are

actually usable with a bit of tinkering

553

Joe Casabona: Yeah, that's a really

good point on the Shownote side, I I

554

can probably train it a little bit more

on how I like to write my description,

555

cause I'm very, but like I always find

some weird analogy that AI, an AI would

556

like never surface, I told like one

about the first ever skydiver who skydove

557

from 200 feet from a hot air balloon.

558

And I really forget what, oh it

was like safety nets, I forget like

559

exactly what the episode was but it

was like a good analogy for the time.

560

Something that I've found it great

for is I always like to give three

561

takeaways from the episode in the show

notes that if people don't want to

562

listen they still get hopefully enough

value to maybe join the mailing list.

563

And I say give me six, because I assume

like half of them are going to be bad.

564

And it does a good job at that, right?

565

It'll, oh, it'll, I'll

usually write my own.

566

And I'll be like, oh, that

one, that's a good point.

567

Totally forgot about that, right?

568

Cause I'm like trying to actively listen

while taking notes and that's hard.

569

And yeah, you're right.

570

I think it is really good for that.

571

And I think, the more you train

something what I should probably do is

572

give, make a custom GPT or whatever.

573

I like say GPT so lazily, like I don't

even want to put like effort into it.

574

But I should probably do like a custom

one that I train on like my last,

575

I don't know, 16 to 20 episodes.

576

Be like, read the descriptions,

internalize how I write

577

these descriptions.

578

Now write a description

and see if it's better.

579

Though, I have found the longer I

use an AI tool, the worse it gets.

580

John: I have mixed experiences there

and probably other people do as well.

581

To step back from AI for a moment

to the more hands on approach.

582

There are a lot of people who

maybe skip a number of elements of

583

production in their show and just

kind of record and throw it out.

584

What's what's the good

and bad of doing that?

585

You just think well, what I'm gonna

do is record it and then it just

586

goes online and then it's there.

587

Joe Casabona: Yeah, here's

where that comes from, right?

588

Radio, probably, where you're doing it

live and so you don't have to edit it.

589

The problem with that is that the

people on the radio are professionals

590

and they're good at interviewing.

591

And you're probably, I hate to break it

to you, not as good as they are, right?

592

Not you, John, personally,

you people listening.

593

John: As the radio personality.

594

I don't I don't know if I could do that.

595

Joe Casabona: yeah, I did like Drama Club.

596

And I've been publicly speaking for

a long time and I probably am not as

597

good as the people on the radio either.

598

They probably also get it

from professional interviews.

599

They see that don't seem

like they're edited.

600

Joe Rogan is a good one.

601

Like I just want to have a

raw, unedited conversation.

602

Joe Rogan spends the

entire day with his guest.

603

Who knows how long they record?

604

Surely it's edited, right?

605

I don't listen to Joe Rogan, so I

can't say whether or not it's edited.

606

John: My favorite either but

607

Joe Casabona: Yeah, I listen in the car

and I have children and he curses a lot.

608

Also like I just, there are very few

three hour long podcasts I can listen to.

609

Or, 60 minutes or a Barbara Walters

interview or an Oprah interview.

610

Like they seem like one shots,

611

John: Yeah.

612

Joe Casabona: but they're probably not.

613

They're edited.

614

To tell a story and so I'm gonna

I'll give big it depends energy here

615

because I've been thinking about

this a lot Do you want like raw?

616

Real quote unquote content or do

you want something that's polished?

617

And I saw at this conference.

618

I was at my friend Luria Petrucci spoke

and She was asked this about video When do

619

I do it from my desk with my professional

setup and when do I do it from my iPhone?

620

And she said, and I thought

this was so perfect.

621

If you're coming from a place of thought

leadership, if you want to be viewed

622

as an authority and an expert, then

it should be from your polished setup.

623

And so if you are putting out a podcast

for a thought leadership where you want

624

people to view you as an expert, as

an authority, it needs to be edited.

625

It can't just be like here's the

stuff I'm thinking about today.

626

And no, that's not thought leadership.

627

That's just you thinking out loud.

628

John: Yeah, you know, I have no issue

with people doing those kinds of podcasts,

629

but You know, I worked with you probably

know Kevin Chemidlin from Grow The

630

Show So I worked with kevin for a while

631

Joe Casabona: Way to pronounce

his name the right way.

632

John: Having worked for the guy

It was a good it was a good idea

633

Joe Casabona: I've seen him so many times

and finally at a podcast moon, I was just

634

like, dude, how do you say your name?

635

John: He's a good guy.

636

One of the things that I really

learned from, from doing that.

637

Cause I, I was like, I was doing sales

with Kevin and so many people out

638

there sort of thinking of professional

podcasting or wanting to make some

639

money from podcasting are just the

want to get together with my mates.

640

We think we're funny.

641

We think we're interesting.

642

We're just gonna chew

the cud and broadcast it.

643

Good luck.

644

But probably, probably, you know, it, it's

probably very rare that, that anything

645

would come of that for, for most people.

646

'cause the vast majority, I think

of stuff like that that goes out,

647

people don't want to listen to.

648

But I'm couldn't say never, but, you

know, good, good luck to them, right?

649

Joe Casabona: Think about when you're in

a bar or a restaurant or in any public

650

place, how funny your conversation

is to you and your friends versus how

651

annoying the table next to you sounds

652

John: right?

653

Joe Casabona: right?

654

And just remember that if you

record a podcast with your friends,

655

just like talk like yucking it up.

656

You are the other table, right?

657

You're not the table.

658

You're sitting at these

people don't know you.

659

They don't care about your inside jokes.

660

78 percent of people listen to a

podcast to learn something new.

661

And if you don't get to it

quick, they're gone because there

662

is so much content out there.

663

John: Yeah.

664

But for the people who are just doing

it for fun, have had it, you know,

665

it's like good, good luck to you.

666

But I think, I think most.

667

Joe Casabona: bat in my backyard.

668

I know I'm never going to play for the

669

John: Right, so most people, I think, do

come into podcasts produce, if they're

670

going to make and produce a show,

they have some thought that they might

671

be able to make some money from it.

672

I mean, do you, do you have any

insight on like stats around how

673

many shows actually do make any

money or is that maybe a bit beyond?

674

Joe Casabona: Yeah, I think this is

to, so I don't have any there's sounds

675

profitable and Edison Research will

have stats on that sort of stuff.

676

Maybe like how many shows are sponsored

and what you'll find is that like

677

millions of dollars is spent every year

on podcast sponsorship, but most of it is

678

going to the top 1 percent of podcasts.

679

John: right.

680

Joe Casabona: But what

is what is immeasurable.

681

There's nothing tracking this.

682

Maybe even the people who have

the podcasts aren't tracking.

683

This is how much money are you

making from people who find you

684

via your podcast and then hire you.

685

Or no one's tracking how much money,

no outside company is tracking like

686

what individual podcasters are making

via affiliate links, cause they can't

687

possibly have that information, but I

put a I put a gift guide episode out

688

every year, and that's just riddled

with affiliate links, and I'm really

689

open about it, but those episodes kill.

690

It's me talking for 30 minutes

about stuff that you should buy, and

691

people love being told what to buy.

692

And so no one's tracking that.

693

Memberships is trackable if the

podcast puts out the numbers, so it's,

694

that's really hard, but it also shows

that there are lots of ways to make

695

money from podcast from your podcast.

696

I would say it depends

on your goals, right?

697

Like the goal is what defines the success.

698

And if you're like I said earlier,

like if your goal is 11 million

699

downloads per episode, like that's

A club of one person, right?

700

But if your goal is to create good

evergreen content that establishes your

701

authority, build your mailing list and

get people into your orbit, I think that

702

is a great goal that, it doesn't really

matter how many downloads you have.

703

I mean it does in a percentage game

kind of way, but you only need a

704

couple hundred downloads to find.

705

That one client who might be

willing to pay you 5, 000 a month

706

or hire you for a 20, 000 project.

707

John: Yeah, which can be a absolutely

probably one of the best ways for most

708

people to think about monetization

when it when it comes to having a show.

709

Do you think podcasting is at a stage that

I maybe think we're YouTube is perhaps a

710

little different, but podcasting, a lot

of podcasting is going on through YouTube

711

now, so the landscape is ever changing.

712

I remember when I first got started, I

used to listen a lot to Tim Ferriss and

713

and I remember him saying, Don't start

a podcast if you're just thinking about

714

making money because you you won't stick

which I think is generally generally has

715

been true But do you think it still will

be do you think people could sort of more?

716

Move into the space of thinking

actually i'm gonna come in here and just

717

gonna Use this channel to make money.

718

I think people perhaps can be More focused

on that with youtube channels But as

719

as the landscape sort of blurs a bit

maybe podcasting could go the same way.

720

Joe Casabona: Yeah, I think people will

always have that approach right like that

721

approach predates Podcasting and YouTube.

722

I'll just do this and I

can make some money, right?

723

That's where snake oil salesman come

from I'll just bottle up some oil and

724

say it's a miracle elixir the rub though

Is that yeah, you like you could start

725

a YouTube channel or a podcast and maybe

make money if people want to listen to

726

it that's the really important part.

727

That's true of youtube videos

too or youtube channels, right?

728

Like people see mr.

729

Beast and mkbhd and a handful of

other people and they're like man,

730

they're killing it on youtube.

731

Like how can I do that?

732

Because they started just by

making good content, right?

733

And putting a lot of time into

effort into creating something

734

that lots of people want.

735

And by that measure, if you think you're

just gonna come and talk for 30 minutes

736

about something or yuck it up with

your friend and just put it out there.

737

No, that mentality will not work.

738

But if you come in and say Hey, I

want to make a really good show.

739

Then yeah, I think you have an

honest shot at making money some way.

740

John: Yeah.

741

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

742

I do think probably just being realistic,

most people are not prepared to put in

743

the amount of energy that would need to

go into making something of good quality.

744

For me, my own journey has

been one of like yourself.

745

Iteration after iteration and figuring

things out definitely much more sort of

746

figure out as I go along looking back.

747

I don't know if it was the best way

to go about doing it and i've often

748

said I would probably If I could go

back and do it again, I would probably

749

start as a guest rather than a host

Podcast guesting is clearly very useful.

750

I mean you're being a guest.

751

You're my guest here today.

752

What what's what sort of thoughts or input

do you have on on the value of podcast

753

guesting and and Like your own experience

with that and what you maybe would

754

recommend for other people there as well.

755

Joe Casabona: Ooh, great question, right?

756

Cause I suspect a lot of people

listening are speakers, probably authors.

757

They want to do guesting more

than have their own show.

758

I think, so first you need to think

about again, like whatever you do,

759

you want it to be worth listening to.

760

And when you pitch a podcast, don't

just be like, Hey, John, I'm so great.

761

I have four patents and

I have a book coming out.

762

Do you want to interview me?

763

No, my pitch to you I suspect was

around like how I can help you

764

teach your audience how to save

time or be a better podcaster.

765

Like I, I always, I look at

the description of the show and

766

who the audience is, and then I

craft a pitch around that, right?

767

This is when I was talking earlier

about something that I could outsource

768

but choose not to, this is it.

769

Because my VA would just send the

same email to every podcaster.

770

And I don't want to do that.

771

I want to be like, Hey, I didn't

just randomly find your podcast

772

and send you a generic pitch.

773

I actually looked into your podcast to

see if it's worth my time and yours.

774

And so that's the first thing,

know a little bit about the podcast

775

and put what you can do for their

audience above everything else.

776

You can tell them about

yourself in the third paragraph.

777

In the first paragraph, tell

them about what you're going

778

to do for their audience.

779

And then as far as making the most out of

it pitch a topic that you are an expert

780

in and prepared to talk about, right?

781

Like I've had someone like, hey,

do you want to come on my podcast

782

and talk about building community?

783

And I could have just been like,

yeah, but I was like, I don't know how

784

to build I'm not good at that part.

785

I'm not an expert in that part, certainly.

786

And they're like you built a podcast.

787

Isn't that like a community?

788

I'm like, no, that's really more like.

789

Like the microphone in the school office

over the speaker right where I can't

790

hear what the students are saying.

791

But and that would have been a waste

of my time and a waste of the podcast

792

host's time and the audience time.

793

Because it's not something that

I could speak intelligently to.

794

And so make sure you pitch a topic,

you know what you're talking about,

795

and then have a clear call to action.

796

What I like to do, I don't want to spoil

this, but what I like to do is have a URL.

797

Usually with the host's name.

798

I've been on enough shows that I find

it statistically impossible that I

799

haven't had the same name of a podcast

host, but that remains the truth.

800

So people will be able to go to,

whatever URL I say at the end, I

801

don't want to make it about this

slash John to get something right.

802

Probably join my mailing list,

but also learn more about me

803

and where they can find me.

804

If you have a podcast,

mention the podcast.

805

I think like those three things,

like how to pitch well, make it

806

about the audience, pitch a topic

that you know really well, and be

807

picky about the shows that you go on.

808

Don't just go on every show.

809

Go on the shows that'll be the place

where you can make the highest impact.

810

And three, have a clear call to action

so that when you deliver on that

811

performance, when you make that impact,

listeners know where to find you.

812

John: Other than making sure that you

have your stuff ready to go, are there

813

any things that you have learned to make

sure that you do when you're guesting,

814

that maybe you picked up as just sort

of, all right, it's good to do this, so

815

it's good to, these are the kind of best

practices that you've been able to create

816

there, you know, your systems guy, so

what are your systems when, other than the

817

pitching stuff, when it comes to guesting?

818

Joe Casabona: Yeah, great question.

819

So I want to make sure that I have listen

to at least part of an episode, right?

820

You and I had a pre show call.

821

So our pre interview, I felt pretty

confident about who your audience

822

is and what we're talking about,

but I always want to feel that way.

823

I don't want to just come in blind.

824

Be like, like a substitute teacher

that just puts a movie on because

825

they don't know where the teacher

is, like the main teacher is, right?

826

I want to add to the conversation.

827

And so I do have a notion database

of all the episodes where I podcast

828

guests and I try to keep track of that.

829

So here's who I pitched.

830

Here's who I'm going on.

831

I've created that special

link for them, right?

832

Cause I want to make sure I do

that before the show goes live.

833

Cause I don't want to immediately not

deliver on some promise I've made.

834

I also have the free resource

because I have a couple of free

835

resources and mentioned one

based on what we've talked about.

836

And then I have when the episode

goes live and if I have promoted

837

it, because I know as a podcaster,

like we really love when our guests

838

promote our episodes to their audience.

839

As a podcast host, I try to get

the guest to talk about something

840

they don't normally talk about

so that it's easier, right?

841

Cause if it's just Oh yeah, here's

like the fifth podcast where I

842

talked about chapter five of my book.

843

My, it's not like my audience isn't

gonna care so I'm not gonna promote that.

844

But I do like to at least

Repost or retweet or whatever.

845

It's called these days, right?

846

I like to share the hosts post at least

with my audience And then I'll usually

847

do a roundup like once a month of hey,

I went on a bunch of shows this month.

848

Here's Where to check them out.

849

And so I will have a column

for if I've shared it already.

850

John: That's cool.

851

I I generally have found that I I

just I don't have the expectation

852

That necessarily people will show

the show I really just try and tag

853

people so let's make sure we connected

I may mostly push the show out on

854

Linkedin and Youtube So usually

it's going to be linked in if we're

855

connected there, which I think we are.

856

Then I can just tag and it's like

okay It's nice and easy then it's so

857

people can come and comment on the

post which they're in they can repost

858

them I think I've found that that's one

of the things that makes it easiest.

859

Are there any other ways that you

were that you maybe personally use

860

for That if you have guests yourself

in your show or for the promotion

861

For the way you promote things.

862

Joe Casabona: I will just add that like

that is even better for you, right?

863

Because then when people interact with

it, it shows the post to more people.

864

John: Yeah

865

Joe Casabona: So no, I'm really,

I don't have the expectation that

866

my guests are gonna share either.

867

I know some hosts are like, you

will share this show, and I'm

868

like, I'll do whatever I want.

869

I'm like a free person.

870

I never ever dictate

what my guest has to do.

871

They've given me their time.

872

John: Right,

873

Joe Casabona: And that's

all I can ask for.

874

I email them and I say, it's an

automated email, a little WordPress

875

plug and I wrote so like when the

episode goes live, it's like, Hey, name,

876

thanks so much for coming on the show.

877

You can find it here.

878

I would love and appreciate

if you shared it.

879

That's it.

880

That's it.

881

But I'm like, even bad at

posting it on social media too.

882

Like I'm real, like my, yeah.

883

My ground game for promoting my show is

really let it go live, put post it in

884

places, mention it on my newsletter or

885

John: yeah i'm trying to get more

consistent without myself it's it's not

886

easy need to follow some of your systems

887

Joe Casabona: shout out

to a few of my guests.

888

So they've asked for the raw video and

then they've created clips from it and

889

have shared it and tagged me and I'm

like, yeah, you're better at sharing my

890

podcast than I am at sharing my podcast.

891

John: Yeah, i've had that as well

I've been put to shame by some of my

892

guests in the past But it's always

good to see how it should be done

893

or how it could be done And we we

can we can learn and grow from that

894

Joe Casabona: My, I should

say, I'm like coming off like

895

I don't promote my podcast.

896

I spend a lot of time

on the SEO aspect of it.

897

I put a lot of effort into my podcast

website and it's one of the reasons that

898

my show got big the way it did early on.

899

And so I put a lot of

thought into the titles.

900

And the descriptions, so that they show

up in Google, and if you Google certain

901

people, I'm, this is like a moving target,

but if you Google certain people, my show

902

is the first thing to show up for them.

903

For a while my friend Kat

Mulvihill was one of those people.

904

She when I googled her, my podcast

interview with her was one of the

905

first She's gotten bigger since

the since that episode came out.

906

But for a while first page of Google,

if you googled her name, was my show.

907

I do spend a lot of time There because

I want my show to be found via Google,

908

because there is no there's no, there's

really no YouTube for podcasting, as

909

far as like an app that recommends

new episodes and so optimizing it

910

for search is the way to do it.

911

To get your show found organically.

912

John: is that something that you

help your clients with as well

913

Joe Casabona: Yeah, we do talk

about we do talk through that.

914

I do mostly focus on the Like system

side of things, but if I'm helping

915

podcasters, inevitably, they'll be like,

I want to grow and I want to make money.

916

And so one of the things that we work

through is sometimes I'll do a growth

917

audit for people where I look at

like these 10 aspects of your show.

918

What's this, what's the name of your show?

919

What's the description of your show?

920

What's the name of your episode?

921

No one cares if the episode is

episode 135 with Emily Aborn,

922

no, that tells me nothing.

923

Emily is the guest of my

show that came out this week.

924

You want to give people a reason to

click and so like the that episode

925

which is actually for something Is

four ways to market without social

926

media with Emily Aborn, right?

927

Oh four ways to market

without social media.

928

Like I definitely want I hate social

media I thought I needed it to market but

929

this is telling me I don't Tell me more.

930

John: Yeah, my my co host on my other show

is gonna want to check that out she hates

931

social media for sure Yeah, that's how we

932

Joe Casabona: I had her on the show.

933

John: And this is your, this is

the Streamlined Entrepreneur Show.

934

Yeah, the Streamlined

935

Joe Casabona: yeah,

that's over at Streamline.

936

fm or Streamline Solopreneur

wherever you get your podcasts.

937

John: Solopreneur.

938

Go and check it out.

939

This has been so much high value

for people and I know that any of my

940

listeners who are in podcasting in

some way, shape or form or thinking

941

about it are going to love this.

942

So, so thank you so much,

Joey, for sharing this.

943

You did mention that You have you've

made it nice and easy and streamlined

944

for people to be able to find out

more about you as well and get some

945

value, some additional value from,

from having listened to this today.

946

What's the link for people

to go and find that out?

947

Joe Casabona: Yeah, so if you

go over to podcastworkflows.

948

com slash John, you will get

access to my automations database.

949

It's got 40 over 40 automations in it.

950

And what I would encourage you

to do is look at that for ideas.

951

Don't necessarily feel like you need

to implement all of those things.

952

It's really a good, you can, if you want

to, because the templates are there,

953

but it'll really give you a good idea

of what's possible in your business.

954

And.

955

There will also be links to social

media and my podcast there as well.

956

But yeah, my, my free

automations databases, the real

957

value of going to that page.

958

John: I'm gonna go and

check that out myself.

959

I think I need to take a good look.

960

Joe, it's been a real a

real treat speaking to you.

961

You share so much value.

962

You're doing wonderful work helping

make people's lives easier and

963

making the podcast production

process Easier for people as well.

964

So thank you for sharing your wisdom

and insights with us today And I'll look

965

forward to staying connected with you and

continuing to learn from you in the future

966

from your from your show and and your

mailing list as well, but Joe Casabona,

967

thank you for coming on Present Influence

968

Joe Casabona: My pleasure.

969

Thanks so much for having me.