Ngan applied to ten schools and got one interview. That one was enough.

She's an ENT PA now and coaches applicants through interviews, but before all of that she was an epidemiologist. Her story is a good one for anyone who's staring at a pile of rejections and wondering if the whole thing was a mistake. One interview, done well, changes everything.

Her advice on interviewing comes down to being yourself. Programs can tell when you're performing. They've heard the polished non-answer a hundred times that day. What they haven't heard is your actual story, told plainly.

We also get into her time in the first graduating class at Florida International University and her work with AAPA.

What we talk about:

• Going from epidemiology to PA school
• Applying to ten programs and getting one interview
• Why authenticity beats a rehearsed answer
• Being part of an inaugural PA class
• Working in ENT and what the specialty is like
• Getting involved with AAPA and PA advocacy

Resources:

PA School Interview Guide: https://www.thepaplatform.com/physician-assistant-school-interview-guide

Mock interview: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/mock-interview

Interview course: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pa-school-interview-course

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Today in episode 54, we're meeting Nan, an ENTPA who is also involved with the AAPA and is a PA platform coach.

Welcome to the pre PA Club podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

Hey, guys.

Thank you so much for joining me, Savannah here.

And I am excited to bring you another interview.

It is application season.

It is interview season, more importantly.

So I'm really excited about this one.

If we've never met, I'm Savannah.

I am a dermatology PA and I also run a website called the PA Platform, and I host this podcast every single week, and it's been a lot of fun.

I'm a year into it now, which is great.

And, yeah, I just enjoy doing it and getting to talk to a lot of different PAs and meet people.

I met non on Instagram, and she actually reached out to me, gosh, almost a year ago about possibly wanting to get involved with interviews and help out with what we were doing with the PA platform.

So after talking to her, she had just graduated.

I could tell that she really had a passion for helping students, and she joined the team, and the rest is history.

So I'm excited for you guys to get to hear a little bit about her and meet her as well.

And, you know, I've been thinking, why don't we have a podcast discount code for the PA platform?

That seems kind of silly.

So you can also use the same code, prepaclub, for a discount on any service through the PA platform, including mock interviews or pre PA assessments.

So that is new as of this episode.

And if you've been listening along for a while, thank you so much.

If you are new, welcome and make sure that you subscribe on itunes to get the newest episodes uploaded every single week.

They come out on Fridays.

Not exactly at the same time, but I try really hard.

And yeah, if you ever have any suggestions, anyone you want to see on the podcast, any questions you want to have answered, leave, let me know.

I think I'm probably gonna do a Q and A session coming up pretty soon, so send me your questions for that and you can actually leave a voicemail question on the website if you go to thepaplatform.com podcast on your computer or if you look in the descriptions of the episodes.

So I'd love to hear from you and hear some of your questions.

But for now, let's jump into our interview with dawn and okay, I'm gonna Be completely honest.

My baby was fighting nap time during this interview, and so you'll kind of hear her yelling.

My baby loves to yell.

She has found her voice.

She doesn't really cry that much, but she yells.

And so she joins our interview in the middle, and that is such a distraction, but she was really fun.

So anyway, you're gonna hear some baby noises.

I apologize, but let's jump into it, and then I hope you'll get some good info out of this.

Here we go.

Introduce yourself and give us a little background on you and how you became.

A pa. My name is Non.

I am a fairly new PA that's working ent.

I am part of the inaugural PA class from Florida International University in Miami, and I just graduated this past December.

Prior to PA school, I received my master's in public health and worked for the local health department as an epidemiologist investigating infectious diseases.

And I've also worked as a medical assistant at an HIV clinic.

Interesting.

Okay, so a couple things there.

First of all, public health.

Do you feel like having a background in public health helped you with getting into PA school or has helped you as a pa?

So I would say that my master's in public health did not necessarily get me any more interviews, but it definitely was a conversation starter while I was in the interviews.

As a pa, I really do believe that it's changed my thought process and, you know, looking to more like socioeconomic status or factors that affect patients care.

So because of that, I do believe it does make me a better healthcare provider.

Okay, interesting.

Because I know that's something that people start to look at if they're having trouble getting into school or need to work on grades, going back and getting their masters in something.

And a lot of times I recommend public health.

I think it's interesting.

So, yeah, definitely recommend that if you can or anyone really should take a few courses in public health.

But as far as obtaining a second master's degree, I would say do it only if you are truly interested in working with the underserved population or contributing to greater health and public health kind of thing.

Cool.

Okay, the other thing.

So the school.

We'll get back to your application in a minute.

You went to.

You said Florida International?

Yes.

Okay.

And you're in the inaugural class, so does that mean you applied when it was provisional?

Correct?

I did apply provisionally.

I am the first graduating class.

So now.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's really cool.

Did you have any reservations about going to provisional program or do you see any benefits of being In a provisional.

Program, I think I was a little reserved applying, just not knowing much about it.

But having been through the whole process and actually sitting in and being interviewed by the ahrq, you know, the accrediting committee for PA schools, I am confident.

I feel like, you know, it takes a lot for a PA school to become accredited.

And so to new PA students out there, I definitely encourage you to look into it.

One of the great things I would say about being in a brand new program is you have the opportunity to provide feedback and kind of meld the program and really make an impact for future PA students.

So if that's something that you're interested in to make a really impact, kind of leave a legacy, then I do encourage for students to also look out to provisional accredited programs.

Cool.

Okay, so when it came time to apply to PA school, what did that process look for you, look like for you?

And kind of, how did you come to the decision of wanting to be a pa?

So I will be honest, I did not do my research.

Well, my journey to PA school was challenging, and I would say that's probably one of the hardest part for me with the school application.

At that time, I didn't really know anyone that was going through this process, so I kind of had to do this on my own.

And so for me, what really, you know, got me interested was, you know, I was working still as an epidemiologist, and I was just frustrated.

At that time, I was working on this specific project interviewing young adults that were recently tested positive for hepatitis C. And so during these interviews, I would call the patients and, you know, notify them of their test results.

And here they are crying, you know, thinking this is like a life sentence.

You know, it was awful.

And I was frustrated that these providers were the first ones to get into contact with the patients, to notify them.

And so I felt like I wanted to be the voice for these patients and do more and be there for them.

And so that's really what tricked me or trickled into wanting to become a pa.

Interesting.

Okay, so when it came time to apply, how many schools did you apply to?

And kind of, what did that look like?

So I applied in total 10 schools.

And like I said, I didn't do my research.

I just kind of.

And this is not something I recommended to other students and learn from my mistakes.

I just pretty much applied to whatever schools based on locations that I thought I would want to live in.

Majority of them, I wanted to stay locally.

So I did apply to mostly Florida schools and really, it was just that I kind of compare my GPA to see what the school's requirements were, and if I met, typically that's where I would apply.

But moving forward, I think for students that are out there, it's really important for you to do your research and look also into the program's missions and values.

You know, I feel it's just as important.

You're spending two or more years in these programs.

You're investing yourself into your career as well.

And so I think with that, you have to really do the research, make sure that the school is a good fit for you, and not just go because it's an easy match.

Okay, so when you apply to 10 schools, like, how many did you hear back from?

How many did you interview at?

How'd that go?

So, like I said, because of my lack of preparation and failing to really do the research, I was only offered the one interview at fiu, and fortunately, that was the only one school that I needed.

Yep, you only need one.

So now you are helping with interviews and coaching with us, which is awesome.

What advice?

Obviously, you did well at your interview.

You were accepted.

What advice do you have for somebody going into an interview?

I know you've seen through mock interviews, things that I have where everyone kind of has their own things they need to work on.

But from a general standpoint, what kind of advice would you give to somebody if they have an interview, let's say, next week?

I would say the most important thing, or the easiest thing, really, is just to be yourself.

You know, be genuine.

Don't make up answers that you think the programs want to know.

Come speak from the heart.

And that would translate so much better.

What I do notice with a lot of these applicants, interviews, don't discredit yourself.

You know, every little thing you do, I think brings a lot to the table, and your weaknesses or strengths, play that up.

Like, for me, I'll be honest, I didn't have strong gpa, and that was probably what limited me in most of my interviews.

Yes, like I said, I had my master's, but the schools didn't really care.

They looked at my undergrad gpa, and they're like, yeah, we don't know.

And so for me, I played up my public health screen a lot, and I think that's ultimately, like I said, what got me through the interview.

So if there is any particular, you know, thing that you have that you think is unique, play that to your advantage, and I think that will take you far.

Yes.

And that's what I Feel like everyone has trouble.

I have trouble.

Like, bragging on yourself.

And so I think one thing that we try to do in our mock interviews is help people to tease this out, because we look at your application and we go, oh, my gosh, this is so cool.

This experience you have, or it's great that you did this volunteer thing, or this part of your personal statement was really good.

Like, you need to be able to kind of pick those things out and incorporate them in your interview.

And again, like, it's so easy to tell if someone's just trying to say what you think, what they think you want to hear, and it.

Yeah, it comes off so generic.

So from the heart, Smile.

Yeah.

Smile.

Yeah.

Be confident.

Anyway, okay, so you started PA school.

What was most difficult for you during PA school?

Early on, I would say I struggled a lot with mental, like, personal blocks.

And what I mean is, you know, early on, you're comparing yourself to others, and I think that's something.

It's easier said than done, but you really just have to work on it.

You know, you're there, and the only competition is yourself to be a better version of yourself, you know, from the person you were yesterday.

And so that was challenging.

Of course, I think the wealth or the, you know, the volume overload of the information that's provided.

You know, you hear often that the PA school analogy, like drinking water from a fire hydrant or a water hydrant, and it's just challenging, you know?

And so I think just trust yourself and trust the process because, you know, whatever it is, at the end of the day, everyone's going through the same boat that you're going through.

So just your own cheerleader and motivate yourself to continue to study and not be so hard on yourself.

Easier said than done.

So after PA school, now you work in ent.

Is that a field that you felt like you wanted to do during school, or how did you end up in that specific specialty?

So during PA school, when we had our ENT blog, we had a great professor named Jose Mercado, and he was just really amazing.

He was someone that was just so passionate about emt, and I think I just kind of fed off of that.

He introduced us to the EMT conferences that I attended as a student, and so that's ultimately how I got my interview and landed my job where I'm at now.

And, you know, I just recall going as a student, and one of the doctors, you know, jokingly told me, you know, if you're someone who likes to play with toys, ENT is the field to go.

And so that was another reason that really led me to pursue emt.

Cool.

Okay.

Did you have trouble finding a job or was that pretty easy?

So I applied for jobs about three months prior to the underpa school.

And I would say it was challenging at the time because a lot of places they wanted to see that you were certified.

I think it all depends on when you apply.

But I still would encourage the students out there that are almost near the end of school to consider looking early.

And so I ended up with two interviews prior to graduation.

And both of these opportunities actually came from networking, whether it's with a conference or just being involved with the state academy.

Okay, cool.

And you've been working for how long now?

Been about five months.

Okay.

How has that adjustment been as a new grad?

I mean, did you feel prepared coming out of school at this point?

Do you feel like you have a handle on things?

Like, how'd that go?

Not at all.

I feel like there are days and bad days, but it is rough.

The feeling, you know, walking across the stage knowing that you are now a PA graduate is amazing.

But unfortunately, that does not translate well until you're in the job.

It's going to be very similar to, you know, starting a new clinical rotation you're following.

You don't know.

You're going to feel lost.

It's definitely been a challenge.

I think I've gone through one hurdle, but there's still so much to learn.

And kind of what I said earlier about not comparing yourself to others, I have to remind myself frequently.

It's not fair for me to compare my knowledge to my attendings, someone who's had, you know, seven years of residency training on top of med school and plus years of experience.

So I, again, I think that's just something that I will have to continue to remind myself and just continue to learn and push myself to grow more each day.

But I'm hanging in there.

Yeah, I always.

I like to look at your Instagram and see you're good about sharing, like, what's happening in clinic and what your days look like.

But what is a typical.

Like, what is a typical day at your job?

Like, your schedule and then as far as, like, your level of autonomy and all of that.

So my current position is interesting.

We are affiliated with an academic center, so I work closely with our residents and our attendings.

Also, I would say my ENT practice is a lot different from others in the fact that we're very sub specialized.

We have specialists that work special and ontology.

So only dealing with the ears, rhinology.

So just dealing with the news theatric clinic, and also a plastic reconstruction provider.

And so I feel like we're so spread out.

Whereas if you talk to most EMT providers, they are like, oh, I'm only an otologist, you know, and I only deal with ear issues.

So each day is different.

I work Monday through Friday from 8 to 5, depending on my assignment.

I may work with our ear doctor in the morning and then switch to a different clinic in the afternoon.

And so as far as autonomy, I'm still in the process of learning, you know, how to be better with my scoping with the nasal endoscopies.

But at this time, as part of our training, the goal, or what's expected, is for me to see every new or extended return patient, kind of see them get a full history, perform the physical exam, maybe perform area if necessary, kind of come out there and discuss with my attending, you know, just hear the findings and kind of come up with a plan.

And then together we'll go back to the patient's room and kind of discuss that.

And so the goal.

And once the training phase is over, I'm expected to have full autonomy, be able to see the patients on my own, and then discharge them out and ultimately have my own set of patients.

Cool.

That's really exciting.

Okay, so transitioning from your job.

I definitely want to talk about AAPA stuff.

So how did you.

How did you first get involved with aapa?

And why.

Why?

Like, why was that something you wanted to do or.

So I was pretty involved as a student leader at fiu.

I was.

What was my role?

I was diversity chair for our class.

That kind of also led me to work with our state academy.

Really just trying to get involved more leader.

But really, I got my start in lobbying or interest there years ago in college when I lobbied with Planned Parenthood for women's reproductive rights.

And so after getting my master's in public health, I kind of made it a goal to use my PA title as a platform to kind of advocate for patients health.

And so, sure enough, I was browsing around on Facebook one day, and I saw that the AAPA was looking for students to apply to become a delegate for the student academy, which, by the way, if anyone's interested, the HOD application is available now until September 30th.

Okay, good to know.

And so, yeah, so that's really how I got involved.

Interesting.

Sorry, we had a baby bust into our session.

Okay, so are you still.

Wait, so what are you now, right.

Now, I am just a member.

Okay, so you finished kind of your delegate.

Correct.

So typically, you have selected.

You will serve pretty much for a whole year.

So that typically begins in August, September, and that those duties will end May at the conference.

Okay, cool.

So if you're a delegate, what does that mean?

What do you do?

So as part of a delegate, you have the authority on behalf of the AAPA to enact policies and principles for the PA profession.

So to give you some background, there are 57 chapters, and these delegates.

Sam, you are not helping us.

She is so cute.

She is cute.

I don't remember our question.

All right, we'll just begin by what does it mean to be a delegate?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

What do you do?

What do you actually do as a delegate?

So the House of Delegates have the authority on behalf of the AAPA to enact policies and principles of the PA profession.

In total, there are 57 chapters representing 50 states, 26 recognized specialty organizations, such as dermatology and otolaryngology, and eight organizations that share a common goal or interest to healthcare delivery.

And so for us, as a student academy, we have the largest voting body and have 16 seats.

In other words, 16 voting privileges.

And so every year, we meet at the AAPA conference for about three days.

The first two days, you know, we're just discussing the different policies are presented and kind of, you know, ways that these policies may affect healthcare delivery, whether it's Medicare coverage, VA privileges, health promoting, and disease prevention.

And then the final day is when we vote up on these issues.

So this past conference, what legislation?

What were, like, the hot topics?

Okay, so I would say one of probably the hottest topic right now is changing the professional title of physician assistant.

What are your thoughts on that?

I will agree where most people feel that the name change isn't necessary and that it's kind of silly that the AAPA is spending so much money investigating this issue because, you know.

But I, in a way, do feel like the title or the word assistant does hinder our practice and confuses the general population.

So pretty much what this policy says is that it's not necessary to vote whether or not we'll go with the name change, but just further investigate and kind of see what the general consensus feel whether a title change would be.

Appropriate and that y' all voted to do that, Correct?

Correct.

So not necessarily that we change the name at this time just to kind of see what everyone thinks of the name change and offer suggestions as to, you know, would physician associate be appropriate or Whatever it is.

So they're just investigating that at the moment.

But I feel like at the end of the day, you just have to educate not just your patients, but just everyone you know, even if someone that you meet on the street, on the elevator, just educate on who and what a FDA is.

So.

Yeah.

So whether a name change will truly change that, I don't know.

But we just have to do more work, I think, to get the general public to know who and what we are.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I mean, I'm not a big proponent of the name change, honestly, but I mean, if they want to do it, it's fine.

I just, I try to make sure my patients kind of know what PAs are.

Was there anything else that was like.

Yeah, so there was another hot debate in the House this year, and that's the standards requiring in person instruction.

And so the original policy pretty much stated, you know, stating AAPA support standards to require that PA training programs provide at least 80% didactic instruction, as in person or live lectures.

And so I think it was just a great topic starter.

And I think right now really was in a way targeting Yale.

The online program.

The online program.

They're the only online program currently.

You know, I think perhaps if the policy was stated differently, you know, I mean, I think at the end of the day what really boils down to is whether or not there'll be a flood market like available and there's just online programs popping everywhere.

So I think, you know, maybe the title or the way this policy was written, it just didn't clearly state that, but that's really what the underlying issue is.

And unfortunately, that policy did get rejected in the House.

And so I think, you know, down the line, this is something we're gonna have to talk about.

Yes, I do believe that with technology advances that online components can be great for students, but I think we have to kind of light fire for the credit bodies, the piea, those that are in charge of PI education, to really make sure that there is a policy in place and that not every Jones University can create their own online PA program.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about the online programs yet, honestly.

And I think it's going to be kind of seeing how Yale does and what happens with that to see there needs more research.

And I think that's kind of what started as to.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

And you did a really great blog post about the different stuff on there on your website.

So I'll link to that.

Any other.

I mean, was there Anything else that was like, see, I feel like I am not up on the legislation even as much as I should be, because it's almost hard to follow.

And I feel like, find out the information.

So if you're not really involved.

Yeah, it is hard.

And that's kind of my goal moving forward in the future is just to try to make it easy to digest where anyone practicing can have a better understanding of what's going on.

But as far as other major recommendations, you know, I think there are two that will affect students in a way.

One of them got passed this year, and this was an initiative started by the student academy is increasing PA diversity.

That did get passed.

And what that policy states is that there needs to be an initiative or increased funding for development and operation of PA programs at historically black colleges and universities, predominantly black institutions, Hispanic serving institutions.

Institutions enroll serving institutions.

And then this last one here is support for PA school and federal loan limits.

And so I see now that with the increasing challenges or competitiveness to get into PA school, I do there will be more students that will come in with a master's beforehand.

And so sometimes these loan limitations can affect those.

And so that is definitely something that I think will benefit future PA students.

Cool.

Yeah, no, that's good to know.

Interesting.

So the diversity one, is that to get.

I don't know if I understand, is it to get more programs or just more funding for the programs that.

Okay, gotcha.

Just kind of encouraged or again, just had more diversity.

Awesome.

That's really cool.

Okay, well, where can everyone find you?

I know you have your website and Instagram and you're on the PA platform.

You're everywhere.

So, yes, you can find me on Instagram.

My Instagram handle name is ampersandpa and my blog is ampersandpa.com and I'll guess I'll take this moment to, you know, people ask, like, why Ampersand?

And really it's, you know, it's supposed to be like.

And pa and so really hoping to, you know, as I move on to, I guess, also include more public health awareness and so really bring that to light.

Because, you know, I do feel like, yes, there are a number of us that do have our MPH background, mpa, but no one really talks about the public health things.

And really, that could be anything and everywhere.

Like, people don't realize, you know, when you think about wearing seatbelts, you know, that's a public health initiative.

So all these little things I want to be.

That was why I changed my.

Yeah, you did change it one day I was like wait, where did that come from?

It caught me off guard.

Well I'll link to all of that in the description so everyone can go and find you and then.

Yeah, well thanks for sharing all of your advice and knowledge and it was good.

I think this will be really helpful.

Thank you so much for having me.

Alright guys, that was our interview with Nan.

I hope you enjoyed it.

I'll link to her blog and the blog post we talked about in the description and make sure you follow her on Instagram ampersamperiodpa and I'll put that in the description too.

And if you want to book a mock interview with Non, go for it.

I'll put that link there too.

She's an awesome interview coach and just doing a really great job getting a lot of acceptances this cycle and if you have any questions for her feel free to reach out.

Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you again next week.

Bye.

Sam.