Hey there,

In this interview with Sean Dustin, Annette Taylor is joining us.

Enjoy this conversation where we discuss the origin of abusive behaviour and how to heal and evolve into a person who is aware of his/her behavior

“Penny” (aka Cave Girl Claire) is a mom, wife and fan of Evolutionary Psychology. She has a B.A. in Psychology and a M.A. in Educational Psychology. (She is also is a recovering Supernatural-aholic.)

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Unknown: 00:00:08

Hello, and welcome to the Borealis experience. I'm

Unknown: 00:00:11

your host Aurora, and I'm very excited to be posting that

Unknown: 00:00:14

interview for you. It is among the we are not proud of our

Unknown: 00:00:19

behavior series, episode number three with Sean Dustin. And

Unknown: 00:00:24

oday we have a guest with us nd net. She has a Bachelor's in

Unknown: 00:00:28

sychology, and a master's in ducational psychology and as a

Unknown: 00:00:32

uge fan of evolutionary sychology. So enjoy this

Unknown: 00:00:37

onversation we had with her the ther day.

Unknown: 00:00:42

Hey everybody, this is Sean ustin and Aurora Eggert from

Unknown: 00:00:48

he Borealis experience. And I'm bviously from the nowhere to

Unknown: 00:00:51

o but up podcast. Today we ha e a guest with us. This is ou

Unknown: 00:00:56

third episode that we've be n doing this, if you want to kn

Unknown: 00:00:59

w a little bit more in ormation, and you don't know qu

Unknown: 00:01:02

te what we do here, go into th description and there will be

Unknown: 00:01:06

an explanation as to what th s is and why we're doing it. We

Unknown: 00:01:12

have a net, also known as ca e girl, Claire, or you can fi

Unknown: 00:01:19

d her at cave dweller club. An Zakho eco echo something I do

Unknown: 00:01:34

't know. Anyways, so I'm go ng to go ahead and share th

Unknown: 00:01:38

s. And I'm going to share th s to auroras timeline. While I'

Unknown: 00:01:44

doing that, go ahead and ta e over Aurora, and this is yo

Unknown: 00:01:48

r first time meeting and that so get acquainted.

Unknown: 00:01:54

Yay. Well, thank you so much for making the time and for being

Unknown: 00:01:59

here with us. I read that you got curious about our little

Unknown: 00:02:06

mission here because Shawn is so open minded. And by the way, he

Unknown: 00:02:11

received a huge Award as Best mental health podcast. So

Unknown: 00:02:16

applause to him. And you got curious about me because I'm

Unknown: 00:02:27

ready to take accountability for some behavior that Yeah, we as

Unknown: 00:02:33

women exhibit, and I feel the need to talk about it. And you

Unknown: 00:02:39

obviously liked it. And you have lots of stuff to share with us

Unknown: 00:02:44

here today. So I'm excited to get to know you and learn from

Unknown: 00:02:48

you. And yeah, gone and introduce yourself to our lovely

Unknown: 00:02:54

listeners here.

Unknown: 00:02:56

I'm excited to be here. Yeah, I was very encouraged by your

Unknown: 00:03:03

guys take on human behavior. A d there were just a couple of t

Unknown: 00:03:09

ings that really jumped out at m and made me think that maybe s

Unknown: 00:03:13

me of what I've learned about s ecifically evolutionary p

Unknown: 00:03:17

ychology and human behavior m ght be fun to kind of just k

Unknown: 00:03:22

ck around, you know, not like, a Sean says, This isn't gonna b

Unknown: 00:03:28

like a, you know, a course, a he calls it. But just some i

Unknown: 00:03:35

eas to kind of take the p essure off you guys a little b

Unknown: 00:03:39

t. Not not in a way that would e cuse your behavior, but maybe e

Unknown: 00:03:45

plain it in a way that I don't k ow is a little more forgiving. D

Unknown: 00:03:52

es that make sense?

Unknown: 00:03:53

Yes. Okay, yeah. That's so beautiful. Did we seem like we

Unknown: 00:03:59

were really hard on ourselves?

Unknown: 00:04:01

No, it's just some of the things. It's hard to explain.

Unknown: 00:04:08

Because some of the things, they make perfect sense and you're

Unknown: 00:04:12

being completely open. And it was encouraging to hear but I

Unknown: 00:04:18

think people in general are hard on themselves, because they

Unknown: 00:04:21

don't understand where where our psychology is kind of developed

Unknown: 00:04:26

in a way and that that's kind of what I wanted to try and talk

Unknown: 00:04:29

about. Okay, so cool.

Unknown: 00:04:34

In your in your background, did you as I was doing that, I'm

Unknown: 00:04:38

sorry, I was trying to share this to different groups. Did

Unknown: 00:04:40

you did you explain a little bit about your background already?

Unknown: 00:04:43

No. Um, so I have a master's degree in educational

Unknown: 00:04:50

psychology, which I got about 30 years ago. But about 30 years

Unknown: 00:04:55

ago, there was this other kind of pocket of psychology called

Unknown: 00:05:00

evolutionary psychology and I couldn't really study it because

Unknown: 00:05:05

it wasn't, you know, it didn't have a bunch of research behind

Unknown: 00:05:10

it, it was just kind of a couple of researchers that I've since

Unknown: 00:05:13

met, and kind of kicked around some ideas with. And so, you

Unknown: 00:05:20

know, 30 years later, I had an experience where I couldn't

Unknown: 00:05:23

explain my behavior. And it really kind of bothered me. And

Unknown: 00:05:27

when I went back, my jam is like, research. So when I have

Unknown: 00:05:33

an issue or problem, that's just kind of where I go, I start

Unknown: 00:05:37

looking at research. And that's just, it makes me feel better, I

Unknown: 00:05:40

guess. So I did that. And I kind of rediscovered this little

Unknown: 00:05:45

pocket of psychology and it started not justifying my

Unknown: 00:05:50

behavior, but it was kind of explaining it in a way that was

Unknown: 00:05:55

like, oh, okay, it doesn't mean it doesn't make me sound so

Unknown: 00:06:00

crazy, you know, like, almost like a rationalization, but not

Unknown: 00:06:04

quite. And so when I started kind of looking at the world,

Unknown: 00:06:07

from this perspective, this evolutionary perspective, other

Unknown: 00:06:11

things that didn't make sense to me started making sense. And I

Unknown: 00:06:15

was like, oh, maybe there's something to this, like, cuz I'm

Unknown: 00:06:19

pretty suspicious by nature. That's why, you know, I poke at

Unknown: 00:06:23

things and make sure that, you know, I believe them. So. And

Unknown: 00:06:28

this kind of explained a few things. So. So I have a master's

Unknown: 00:06:33

in psychology, but it's not evolutionary psychology. That's

Unknown: 00:06:36

my long answer.

Unknown: 00:06:40

Well, I'm, I'm fascinated to know, I mean, we had a short

Unknown: 00:06:44

conversation, when I was in the airport, going to, I think it

Unknown: 00:06:48

was on my way to Florida. And we talked a little bit about what

Unknown: 00:06:54

you were talking about. But I'm still, like you said I was,

Unknown: 00:06:57

there's so much going on, it's many distractions. I definitely

Unknown: 00:07:01

would like to hear more about it. And, you know, I'm always

Unknown: 00:07:04

interested in finding out why I do some of the some of the FDIC

Unknown: 00:07:09

things that I do, or have done in my life, and you know, what

Unknown: 00:07:13

it is, what it's attributed to, and, like, I have my own

Unknown: 00:07:16

suspicions and my own ideas. But I mean, I know that there's a

Unknown: 00:07:20

lot that, you know, evolution plays in how we do things, DNA

Unknown: 00:07:25

genetics, you know, even even into the kind of gene, what do

Unknown: 00:07:32

they call that they call that generational? No Gen. Is

Unknown: 00:07:36

epigenetics a generational trauma? Yeah. Okay. So, shoot,

Unknown: 00:07:42

go for it.

Unknown: 00:07:46

I think it's so big. I feel like I don't know where to start. I

Unknown: 00:07:51

guess I'll start with how I feel like, I know a little bit more

Unknown: 00:07:58

about cave dwellers, as I call them, then the average person,

Unknown: 00:08:03

how about that is that seemed like it might move us forward.

Unknown: 00:08:07

But not too fast. Like,

Unknown: 00:08:10

cave dwellers, meaning meaning like us as a species? Yeah,

Unknown: 00:08:17

yeah. So I think we were hunter gatherers at one point, right.

Unknown: 00:08:23

And then something happened. And we were all forced to go into,

Unknown: 00:08:28

into cave dwelling, right? Something like that.

Unknown: 00:08:33

The cave dwelling time happened at the same time as hunter

Unknown: 00:08:36

gatherer time. And the main difference between us as modern

Unknown: 00:08:40

people and people that lived that were hunter gatherers is

Unknown: 00:08:44

they were nomadic. They moved around, that's how they got

Unknown: 00:08:49

their food. They followed herds, they followed seasons, that's

Unknown: 00:08:52

how they stayed alive. They didn't stay in one place for

Unknown: 00:08:56

very long. So the the main, and there are hunter gatherer

Unknown: 00:09:01

societies still on the planet. Not everyone lives, like what I

Unknown: 00:09:05

call a modern person, but there are modern day hunter gatherers.

Unknown: 00:09:09

I just want to clarify that. So if we're talking about people

Unknown: 00:09:14

who are no longer nomadic, that's like a big chunk of the

Unknown: 00:09:18

world now. And that that shift has affected our psychologies, a

Unknown: 00:09:26

little more than I think modern people think about and that's

Unknown: 00:09:30

just something that I think

Unknown: 00:09:37

so. As we've as we've kind of evolved, right, and we've we've

Unknown: 00:09:44

gone into being more of a modern society. I think some of the

Unknown: 00:09:49

things that we don't experience anymore, are our dangers, right,

Unknown: 00:09:56

the kind of dangers that we used to experience all the time and

Unknown: 00:10:00

Like, you know, we're not, we don't have to worry about

Unknown: 00:10:02

walking around and getting eaten by a lion, or we don't have to

Unknown: 00:10:05

worry about, you know, going looking for food hunting and

Unknown: 00:10:09

another tribe attacking attacking us, right. And so all

Unknown: 00:10:13

of those things sort of, you know, kind of, were built into

Unknown: 00:10:17

who we were and how we, we perceived the things around us

Unknown: 00:10:22

and lived our lives. Now, we don't have that. I mean, there

Unknown: 00:10:26

there, there are some dangers. I mean, you know, obviously, you

Unknown: 00:10:29

know, don't go to the ghetto in the middle of the night, you

Unknown: 00:10:32

know, or, you know, I won't even say ghetto, let's just say to

Unknown: 00:10:36

the, to the bad parts of, you know, maybe a city or a town or,

Unknown: 00:10:41

you know, whatever it is, you want to call, we don't go there.

Unknown: 00:10:44

And then in the night, because it's dangerous. So unfamiliar.

Unknown: 00:10:49

That's what's scary about it. Yeah. Okay. So now, how does

Unknown: 00:10:53

that play into, like, you know, Aurora and my ourselves, we

Unknown: 00:10:57

were, you know, abusive people, we, you know, treated people in

Unknown: 00:11:02

a way that, you know, is probably not looked at looked at

Unknown: 00:11:07

very kindly, you know, if you were to, if you were to just,

Unknown: 00:11:11

you know, come out and say, Well, this is what I did. And we

Unknown: 00:11:14

actually we've done that we've, we've said that we've talked

Unknown: 00:11:16

about how we were, and that's not the norm. Now, what is he

Unknown: 00:11:24

talking about? It's not the norm, we're talking about, it's

Unknown: 00:11:27

not the norm, but actually acting that way, I don't think

Unknown: 00:11:29

is the norm as well, unless it happens way more than we think.

Unknown: 00:11:35

I think it does, um, what you guys talk about is kind of, I

Unknown: 00:11:41

don't want to say extreme versions of it, but I think at

Unknown: 00:11:44

some level, okay, so let me try it from this angle. Um, when we

Unknown: 00:11:50

were in tribes, we knew every person we lived with very, very

Unknown: 00:11:57

well. They were the only people let's call it 100 people, they

Unknown: 00:12:01

were the only people we ever knew, basically, living day to

Unknown: 00:12:05

day, maybe we would come across another tribe. And when most

Unknown: 00:12:10

people talk about tribal behavior, that first thing that

Unknown: 00:12:14

pops into their head is tribe versus tribe, right? Like a

Unknown: 00:12:17

tribal behavior is fighting for resources or something like

Unknown: 00:12:22

that. But in my head, what's more interesting to me is what

Unknown: 00:12:27

went on between tribe members. So that's kind of how I look at

Unknown: 00:12:33

interpersonal relationships. Now, I imagine what would it

Unknown: 00:12:37

have been like, back then when we only had 100 people to deal

Unknown: 00:12:41

with and to know. And so that's a little bit different than even

Unknown: 00:12:48

the general study of evolutionary psychology, it's

Unknown: 00:12:52

kind of a more of a big picture. And I think it's more

Unknown: 00:12:56

interesting to talk about the psychology part of evolutionary

Unknown: 00:13:01

psychology. Like thinking about how life would have been, I

Unknown: 00:13:06

mean, imagine only knowing 100 people your whole life. That

Unknown: 00:13:12

would be pretty cool if you were a cave dweller, because, like

Unknown: 00:13:17

you said, life, when you're a cave dweller is super scary.

Unknown: 00:13:21

You're part of the food chain, it gets dark, there's very

Unknown: 00:13:26

little time to like, just chill, right? You're just constantly

Unknown: 00:13:30

scared. It's like a state, you're in almost all the time,

Unknown: 00:13:33

except when you're with your tribe. So I think we have

Unknown: 00:13:38

remnants of this. This assumption, or this belief, as

Unknown: 00:13:45

modern people that the people immediately around us should be

Unknown: 00:13:50

on our team on our side, and in some ways, literally thinking

Unknown: 00:13:55

the way that we think. Because when we were trying, when we

Unknown: 00:14:00

were living in a tribe, we had to basically think with one

Unknown: 00:14:02

mind, we the only thing we did all day, every day was look for

Unknown: 00:14:08

food, and share it. That's all we did. It's hard to imagine.

Unknown: 00:14:12

But that's how I imagine our psychology, part of our

Unknown: 00:14:17

psychologies were developed during this time. And so when

Unknown: 00:14:22

you get an interpersonal relationship with someone, and

Unknown: 00:14:26

at some level, we're not aware of this, because it's so old and

Unknown: 00:14:30

ingrained in our minds. We expect the people immediately

Unknown: 00:14:33

around us to be on our page on our exact page and on our

Unknown: 00:14:38

wavelength and when they're not. I think there's this moment of

Unknown: 00:14:44

fear, like, Oh, crap, this person is not in my head. And

Unknown: 00:14:48

it's, it's a scary feeling. Mm hmm.

Unknown: 00:14:53

I have a question for you. Yes. So would you say that abusive

Unknown: 00:14:59

behavior stems from a wound that we have experienced in the past.

Unknown: 00:15:06

And it's our way to protect ourselves now. Like when we

Unknown: 00:15:12

aggress someone else, we protect ourselves, which doesn't really

Unknown: 00:15:16

make sense, because then the whole mess starts. But that's

Unknown: 00:15:20

just how our system was wired to react when something scares us.

Unknown: 00:15:30

Yes, mostly.

Unknown: 00:15:33

Short answer, yes. But what I'd like to talk, it's a fear

Unknown: 00:15:38

response. You're totally right, like, but it's just an instant,

Unknown: 00:15:41

like, Oh, this person doesn't know what I'm thinking, there's

Unknown: 00:15:45

something amiss. Like, can I trust this person? Now, it's

Unknown: 00:15:50

this, every living thing in my head is on a continuum between

Unknown: 00:15:54

trust and fear. So any point of any day, you're going about your

Unknown: 00:15:59

day, you're somewhere on this continuum. And when you get

Unknown: 00:16:03

bumped into fear, without your conscious knowing about it, then

Unknown: 00:16:09

you do things like lash out. It is, it's a fear thing. And as

Unknown: 00:16:17

cave dwellers, if we were scared of something, it was either

Unknown: 00:16:20

fight, flight or freeze. But as modern people, we have this

Unknown: 00:16:25

extra special thing that we can do, which is control. So we try

Unknown: 00:16:32

to control the thing that scares us. Hmm.

Unknown: 00:16:37

I agree with that. And I think the analogy is, and I've done

Unknown: 00:16:42

I've done this before, and I'll explain. So when I've been in,

Unknown: 00:16:48

let's say, let's say I've, I've pushed my significant other to

Unknown: 00:16:52

the point where they now want to leave the fear start setting in

Unknown: 00:16:57

Oh, my God, what am I gonna do? I don't gonna be able to survive

Unknown: 00:17:01

on my own, am I gonna be able to do this? Am I gonna be able to

Unknown: 00:17:04

do that? How am I ever going to find somebody else? Who am I

Unknown: 00:17:08

going to have sex with, you know, all these things start

Unknown: 00:17:12

coming into into play. And instead of doing the thing that

Unknown: 00:17:19

I know, would probably salvage the, the maybe salvage the

Unknown: 00:17:24

relationship, maybe, you know, show some remorse or remorse or

Unknown: 00:17:34

something, you know, other than trying to control the situation,

Unknown: 00:17:38

what ends up what ended up happening is, is that I do I do

Unknown: 00:17:42

the behaviors that will produce the exact thing that I don't

Unknown: 00:17:45

want to have happen even more. And so I'm scared, or it's in an

Unknown: 00:17:54

effort to control it, but the fear is what kicked it off. And

Unknown: 00:17:58

so instead of, you know, okay, well, let me try to bully them

Unknown: 00:18:02

into, you know, doing what I want them to do, or scare them

Unknown: 00:18:05

into staying, or, you know, saying things like, oh, you'll

Unknown: 00:18:10

never find anybody better than me, or you all these things,

Unknown: 00:18:14

these these tactics that come out, you know, to manipulate to,

Unknown: 00:18:19

you know, try to control it's all it's all an effort of trying

Unknown: 00:18:22

to control the situation and control what they do.

Unknown: 00:18:26

And people aren't part of the environment. Like, I think it's

Unknown: 00:18:31

hard for us to differentiate sometimes.

Unknown: 00:18:37

Different differentiate like other What do you mean, the

Unknown: 00:18:39

other people aren't part of the environment. So like, since

Unknown: 00:18:42

we're not in a, in a, in a village setting where everything

Unknown: 00:18:46

is open, and that behavior, like we're behind closed doors more

Unknown: 00:18:50

than we are out in the open? So is that what you mean?

Unknown: 00:18:55

Um, it's more like. It's, as modern people, we feel like we

Unknown: 00:19:04

have control over a lot of things. We can control light, we

Unknown: 00:19:09

can control temperature, I think we have this kind of almost a

Unknown: 00:19:20

belief that we can control everything around us. And when

Unknown: 00:19:23

there's something in the environment, we can't control,

Unknown: 00:19:25

then we kick into fear. And we're like, oh, we can't control

Unknown: 00:19:28

this. And it's like another person is different than a lamp.

Unknown: 00:19:33

But I think sometimes we have as modern people have this aura,

Unknown: 00:19:37

this kind of magical belief that we we could control this other

Unknown: 00:19:42

person and it doesn't fit with our current environment, like

Unknown: 00:19:47

our in our old environment, what we could trust in our

Unknown: 00:19:51

environment as like hunter gatherers was other people. Like

Unknown: 00:19:56

we because we were thinking with one mind, we were all doing the

Unknown: 00:19:58

same thing. All Every day and everything else outside the

Unknown: 00:20:03

tribe was the thing that was scary and other people made us

Unknown: 00:20:07

feel safe. Other people were our protection, our predictability

Unknown: 00:20:10

our. And so now we're in a modern world and at some level,

Unknown: 00:20:16

we're still thinking that these people are especially the people

Unknown: 00:20:21

in our immediate environment are our significant others to be on

Unknown: 00:20:25

our page. And then when they're not. What do you think?

Unknown: 00:20:38

I think I totally understand a net angle. But I know from my

Unknown: 00:20:47

story from myself that it was not that the people were not on

Unknown: 00:20:51

my page, it was that I was scared of an outcome that would

Unknown: 00:20:58

hurt me and I wanted to anticipate, and sometimes in

Unknown: 00:21:02

picking a fight, and you know, the other person a little bit,

Unknown: 00:21:08

you know, how they're gonna react, instead of living in

Unknown: 00:21:12

harmony is strange. For me, it's not familiar, because my life

Unknown: 00:21:20

was not always harmonious. So I am more an expectant of

Unknown: 00:21:26

something that is gonna disturb, so I should disturb. And then

Unknown: 00:21:31

this is familiar, even though it's uncomfortable. But I don't

Unknown: 00:21:36

I have a hard time to understand that not being on the same page,

Unknown: 00:21:40

because I see the enemy and the other. Because I feel they have

Unknown: 00:21:48

control over my well being. Mm hmm.

Unknown: 00:21:53

Yeah. I see what you're saying. And see this. This is. This is

Unknown: 00:22:02

hard for me to talk about. But um, we were always cave

Unknown: 00:22:08

dwellers. There was a time when we were tree dwellers to like.

Unknown: 00:22:14

And so let me say it this way, there was a time when we

Unknown: 00:22:18

couldn't talk to each other. And we were dependent on things like

Unknown: 00:22:23

hierarchies. To get through our day, when we couldn't talk to

Unknown: 00:22:26

each other, and we had to do something together, there was a

Unknown: 00:22:31

boss, you know, the head honcho, and then everyone else falls

Unknown: 00:22:35

into a hierarchy. So everyone has a role, a controlling role

Unknown: 00:22:39

or a following role. And it's all organized, and it worked.

Unknown: 00:22:43

And till we could talk to each other, and then that kind of

Unknown: 00:22:47

mess things up a little bit. So in my head, there was a time

Unknown: 00:22:52

when we couldn't talk to each other. And we were depending on

Unknown: 00:22:54

the hierarchies, and I call this the win lose. Era, where someone

Unknown: 00:23:00

was winning, and someone was losing. There was someone in

Unknown: 00:23:04

control, and there were people that were following. That's kind

Unknown: 00:23:08

of what I'm hearing from you like in your growing up when you

Unknown: 00:23:12

were a kid? There was there was a winner and a loser. Yes,

Unknown: 00:23:16

powerlessness. You felt powerless. And you you were

Unknown: 00:23:20

either going to be powerful, or power lead. Exactly. That is.

Unknown: 00:23:28

It's more cut and dry. And as we evolved and got other tools and

Unknown: 00:23:33

can talk to each other, we moved into a time when we were more

Unknown: 00:23:36

Win, win, not win lose. Like if you're in a group and everyone

Unknown: 00:23:41

benefits if everyone cooperates. That's a different, like tool

Unknown: 00:23:47

that we have in our psyches. So you're talking about the psyche

Unknown: 00:23:51

that we had, even before we have recovered dwellers, it's the

Unknown: 00:23:55

time when we couldn't talk and everything was win lose, as

Unknown: 00:23:59

opposed to win win. So I think that's why like humans are so

Unknown: 00:24:04

confusing and get confused is we have so many sets of tools that

Unknown: 00:24:10

we can use to communicate with each other. And we're not aware

Unknown: 00:24:14

that we have these separate like modes. And when you get kicked

Unknown: 00:24:18

into fear, you're like, win lose. That's your mode. I'm

Unknown: 00:24:22

either winning or losing. Yeah, that make any sense? Oh,

Unknown: 00:24:26

totally.

Unknown: 00:24:28

there's a there's a good question here Roman Jones chimes

Unknown: 00:24:32

in with is that maybe because everyone isn't working towards a

Unknown: 00:24:36

common goal of what's best for the group, but instead everyone

Unknown: 00:24:40

is working towards individual goals. Totally. Great question.

Unknown: 00:24:45

Roman. Thank you. Excellent. Now and also to it wasn't there like

Unknown: 00:24:52

the human brain is only capable of recognizing so many people in

Unknown: 00:24:57

it right? Like You're memorizing, memorizing like,

Unknown: 00:25:02

like you have a catalogue of people that are in your head.

Unknown: 00:25:05

And it only goes up to a certain amount of people. And then after

Unknown: 00:25:08

that you don't, you don't recognize them anymore.

Unknown: 00:25:11

It's harder to we start compartmentalizing. So let's say

Unknown: 00:25:17

you see an African American face, they all look the same,

Unknown: 00:25:21

because maybe you don't have a lot of experience with that kind

Unknown: 00:25:24

of face. So yes, and no, there's this number called Dunbar's

Unknown: 00:25:28

number, which is extraordinary. Yeah, okay, so you knew you

Unknown: 00:25:31

knew? Yeah, it's a it's technically 147.3, which is

Unknown: 00:25:36

stupid. But what's point three of a person, you know, because

Unknown: 00:25:44

they made a chart, you know, the baby, addicted to their chart.

Unknown: 00:25:49

But in real life, whatever. So it Dunbar's number is, he

Unknown: 00:25:55

himself is still alive. He is one of the few ideas in

Unknown: 00:26:01

evolutionary psychology that almost every researcher agrees

Unknown: 00:26:05

on. It's the number which systems start breaking down.

Unknown: 00:26:09

Like if you have more than 150 people, things get confusing.

Unknown: 00:26:14

And most people who study evolutionary psychology agree

Unknown: 00:26:19

that that is because we probably didn't go larger than 150 people

Unknown: 00:26:25

in a tribe. So you're right, there is a limit to what we can

Unknown: 00:26:30

kind of take in.

Unknown: 00:26:33

City feel that that since society has become so large, and

Unknown: 00:26:38

we have so many, so many folks in it, and that we are No, I

Unknown: 00:26:44

mean, we're in a tribal mentality, a lot of times it

Unknown: 00:26:48

things sort of shift there when certain things happen. But I

Unknown: 00:26:53

mean, as far as, I mean, I've lived in plenty of places where

Unknown: 00:26:56

I have no idea what my neighbors who my neighbor was, I lived in

Unknown: 00:27:00

an apartment complex and didn't know who was to the left to

Unknown: 00:27:02

right above or below me. And it seems like a like, it's been

Unknown: 00:27:08

normalized to not, not like know, your neighbors, when those

Unknown: 00:27:15

are the people that like, if, if the proverbial shit was to hit

Unknown: 00:27:20

the fan, the people in your neighborhoods are the ones that

Unknown: 00:27:25

are closest to you, and that you would need to count on to go to

Unknown: 00:27:29

help for if you needed it. Right. Right. And I think it's a

Unknown: 00:27:32

very unnatural way to live.

Unknown: 00:27:38

Yeah, it is. It is stressful. And I don't know we live more

Unknown: 00:27:43

isolated now than we used to, or we are wired to write. Totally,

Unknown: 00:27:52

yeah.

Unknown: 00:27:53

Now as it pertains to like behavioral so evolutionary

Unknown: 00:27:59

psychology is that have anything to do like Graham Hancock, do

Unknown: 00:28:03

you know that name? He was somebody that did talked about

Unknown: 00:28:09

the, the, the dry the the dryer? Yeah, the younger era. And you

Unknown: 00:28:17

know, when we have the great flood, and all the other stuff

Unknown: 00:28:19

that went along with that, I can't remember what it is. I

Unknown: 00:28:23

shouldn't open my mouth unless I knew exactly what I was talking

Unknown: 00:28:26

about. You never know. bits and pieces of Rogan information Joe

Unknown: 00:28:33

Rogan podcast and the people that he has on there, stuck in

Unknown: 00:28:36

my head. Researchers I know on Well, I love researchers,

Unknown: 00:28:42

because I'm not one. And like, I'm ADHD and like to sit there

Unknown: 00:28:48

and do that is like really difficult for me. I mean, even

Unknown: 00:28:52

just to sit here in my in my in my area and try to do things.

Unknown: 00:28:56

It's hard, because it's like, if I got a bunch of windows open,

Unknown: 00:28:59

it's like, oh, I gotta go over here. All the way to me, I'm

Unknown: 00:29:02

damn, what were you doing? Go back to what you were doing.

Unknown: 00:29:08

Yeah, I get sidetracked really easy. But I mean, as this

Unknown: 00:29:12

pertains to, you know, our abusive behaviors and the things

Unknown: 00:29:17

that were learned, because I think a lot of what I did, was

Unknown: 00:29:22

learned over a long period of time, you know, like, we're

Unknown: 00:29:26

talking 40 years of bad behavior that kind of has been ingrained

Unknown: 00:29:31

through you know, I would I think a lot of this is his

Unknown: 00:29:35

successes, you know, the win lose thing, right? You know, if

Unknown: 00:29:39

I kept doing a lot of these things, because I kept winning,

Unknown: 00:29:42

it kept working. And so if it was working, like manipulating

Unknown: 00:29:46

women and using women to, you know, as a, as a means to still

Unknown: 00:29:53

finding support, like financial support, you know, when I didn't

Unknown: 00:29:58

have a job Oh, let's go hook up. What's his shack up with a

Unknown: 00:30:01

chick? We usually the opposite is, you know, women find it a

Unknown: 00:30:04

lot easier to play that card, you know, for safety, you know,

Unknown: 00:30:12

in finding safety and a man. Right.

Unknown: 00:30:15

But you just said the same thing about a woman. I mean, I think

Unknown: 00:30:18

we all just go through life, sir to survive. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:30:24

Yeah, that's I mean, we mean what I just explained, but I did

Unknown: 00:30:27

it. And I, you know, women do that as well, I guess. I guess

Unknown: 00:30:30

we all do it to a certain extent,

Unknown: 00:30:32

people. I get annoying because I don't like categorizing things.

Unknown: 00:30:39

No, no, no, that's okay. I mean, it's just this is a conversation

Unknown: 00:30:43

in a in a collaboration of ideas. And, you know, all ideas

Unknown: 00:30:47

are good until they're not right.

Unknown: 00:30:50

Well, that's what I really am impressed with you guys. Because

Unknown: 00:30:55

I have this like theory that people walk around with a set of

Unknown: 00:30:57

beliefs, just to get them through life, because there is

Unknown: 00:31:01

too much information coming at us, our psychologies kind of

Unknown: 00:31:04

have to cook part mentalize, or rationalize to have things kind

Unknown: 00:31:08

of make sense to us. And some people are in a soap bubble. So

Unknown: 00:31:14

their beliefs are kind of kind of fragile. And if you get near

Unknown: 00:31:19

them, they get nervous. But you guys have had enough experiences

Unknown: 00:31:24

to where we you your belief system in my head is more like a

Unknown: 00:31:29

balloon. So if you have a balloon, and it's not totally

Unknown: 00:31:32

full, you can add air, you can squish it a little bit. And you

Unknown: 00:31:37

can decide if you want to have that in your balloon, or if you

Unknown: 00:31:40

don't want to have that in your balloon. So that's what another

Unknown: 00:31:43

reason I reached out I was like, they can handle like, a kind of

Unknown: 00:31:48

strange idea and decide if they like it or not, they're gonna

Unknown: 00:31:52

not gonna freak out just because I have a different perspective,

Unknown: 00:31:56

you know?

Unknown: 00:31:58

No, that's true. When it comes to that phase in your life,

Unknown: 00:32:06

where you realize that you have been the abusive person, when

Unknown: 00:32:10

you kind of come out of the victim mentality that are

Unknown: 00:32:16

everybody leaves me, nobody loves me. When you realize oh,

Unknown: 00:32:20

shit, like, actually, I did stuff to repel people to scare

Unknown: 00:32:25

people of what would you say? neck? How can the journey be

Unknown: 00:32:33

sustainable? How can we learn to not fall back into these

Unknown: 00:32:38

patterns? Because it is so incredibly easy, right? We don't

Unknown: 00:32:42

know if I can speak for Shawn too. But we both learned that it

Unknown: 00:32:46

works. We just realized, okay, it's maybe not awesome. But how

Unknown: 00:32:51

can we like neuroplasticity? Let's talk about

Unknown: 00:32:55

neuroplasticity? How can we really learn new pathways? Is it

Unknown: 00:32:59

in being in a relationship? Or can we also do it outside of a

Unknown: 00:33:06

relationship? Do you know what I mean? Like some, I tell you,

Unknown: 00:33:09

some of the things we can only learn as a team, or when we're

Unknown: 00:33:13

exposed to situations. And some things we can learn by

Unknown: 00:33:18

ourselves.

Unknown: 00:33:22

I totally get what you're saying. And it totally fits with

Unknown: 00:33:27

the continuum of trust and fear. If you can kind of learn to

Unknown: 00:33:31

identify when you're behaving in a fearful way. It's it becomes

Unknown: 00:33:37

easier to kind of Whoa, not stop yourself. But as you're doing it

Unknown: 00:33:43

or maybe after you do it. If you take responsibility for your for

Unknown: 00:33:47

being afraid. I was afraid just then. Let me try that again. And

Unknown: 00:33:54

if you can just kind of make it a habit of knowing where you are

Unknown: 00:34:02

on the continuum. Like, you feel yourself going win lose, be

Unknown: 00:34:06

like, okay, you want to move yourself toward trust. And I

Unknown: 00:34:11

think that takes being with other people like your question

Unknown: 00:34:14

about because you have to practice it. You can't just like

Unknown: 00:34:18

it's easy by when you're by yourself to be in trust, because

Unknown: 00:34:23

you have no one to worry about. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You got

Unknown: 00:34:28

nobody called? Yeah, you can't overreact. And that's, that's

Unknown: 00:34:35

the tricky part. Because if you're I think we're all kind of

Unknown: 00:34:38

primed as modern people to have a fear response because we're

Unknown: 00:34:43

not living the way our brains kind of are used to. And it

Unknown: 00:34:49

seems odd to think of the brain as still thinking that the way

Unknown: 00:34:54

it did 10,000 years ago before we started farming, but but when

Unknown: 00:34:59

I Look process human behavior with that assumption. So many

Unknown: 00:35:03

things make so much more sense.

Unknown: 00:35:06

I don't know, it's just, it's fascinating me

Unknown: 00:35:12

I have this strange this strange idea of like, because we have,

Unknown: 00:35:22

we essentially have two different brains in our body, we

Unknown: 00:35:26

have this one right here. And then we have the gut biome,

Unknown: 00:35:30

which is full of bacterias, and other things that make different

Unknown: 00:35:36

chemicals and, and, you know, cause different reactions and

Unknown: 00:35:40

our emotions and our things. I you know, I honestly think that

Unknown: 00:35:44

the, you know, when we talk about aliens, right, I think the

Unknown: 00:35:48

bacteria that are in our body are aliens, to be honest with

Unknown: 00:35:52

you, and they have they have control of like, We're an

Unknown: 00:35:56

avatar, right? Yeah, we're an avatar. And whatever's in our

Unknown: 00:36:04

biome, you know, and making these these different chemicals,

Unknown: 00:36:09

and, you know, the epinephrine, norepinephrine, all these

Unknown: 00:36:12

different things, that kind of control, you know, whether we're

Unknown: 00:36:15

hungry, whether we're angry, whether we're tired, whether

Unknown: 00:36:17

we're all these things, it feels like, sometimes, you know, we're

Unknown: 00:36:22

not even in control. We're just, you know, just meaning in an

Unknown: 00:36:28

inner, let's call this, you know, just being played by

Unknown: 00:36:31

something. And, I don't know, maybe I'm somewhat on, but I

Unknown: 00:36:38

just, that's just kind of how it feels to me.

Unknown: 00:36:41

Yeah, and I, I agree with you. I don't agree about the alien

Unknown: 00:36:46

stuff. But I think that comes from our very distant past,

Unknown: 00:36:50

like, our ancestral experiences. And, and, and I, and I don't

Unknown: 00:36:56

think that we're not in control at all. It's just, um, we're not

Unknown: 00:37:05

really in tune. Okay, so here's the thing. Just last week, I

Unknown: 00:37:09

read about this researcher who she described how the brain

Unknown: 00:37:16

can't see. But it's in charge of us. So imagine getting

Unknown: 00:37:21

information from your biome, or your chemicals are, sound. But

Unknown: 00:37:30

you can't see the actual environment, if you're trying to

Unknown: 00:37:34

control this body. And all you're getting is images or

Unknown: 00:37:39

information from inside the body. Like, it's this strange

Unknown: 00:37:45

picture that popped in my head, it's like, our brains are blind.

Unknown: 00:37:49

And depending on how much experience we have in life, like

Unknown: 00:37:53

if you go through your life, and you have a very peaceful

Unknown: 00:37:55

childhood, and then something bad happens, it's like, Whoa,

Unknown: 00:38:00

that came out of nowhere. And then if you have like, a

Unknown: 00:38:02

childhood, that's kind of Rocky, that's what you are used to your

Unknown: 00:38:07

brain is like, Okay, this is life. This is I in and you can

Unknown: 00:38:11

get through life with a little more up and down. Does that make

Unknown: 00:38:15

sense? Yeah. certain extent. But sure, but, like, what Aurora was

Unknown: 00:38:25

saying earlier, the familiarity of something, right. So the

Unknown: 00:38:29

person that's had the Rocky is my I had a rocky, you know,

Unknown: 00:38:33

upbringing, and, and a lot of chaos, a lot of, you know, stuff

Unknown: 00:38:39

going on yelling and you know, to where I'm like really sensing

Unknown: 00:38:42

like, if somebody starts yelling at me now, it's like,

Unknown: 00:38:44

immediately, that's what flips me out. And also, too, if things

Unknown: 00:38:50

are going too well, because I'm not used to smooth rides, right?

Unknown: 00:38:56

I will do something to purposely knock the knock the train off

Unknown: 00:39:02

the track and caused chaos, because that's where I'm

Unknown: 00:39:05

familiar. I'm like, back home. I mean, I understand I understand

Unknown: 00:39:12

this. Yeah. It's, and that's why people create patterns

Unknown: 00:39:17

sometimes, like, you know, if your parents smokes, you'll

Unknown: 00:39:21

smoke, most most likely, because that's what's familiar. And

Unknown: 00:39:25

that's what's predictable. And we kind of recreate when I say

Unknown: 00:39:29

things, things should be predictable. I just mean

Unknown: 00:39:32

familiar. I don't mean like, everything's in place, and

Unknown: 00:39:34

everything's perfect. But I don't know, like Aurora was

Unknown: 00:39:38

saying, like, she doesn't want to be the loser. She wants to be

Unknown: 00:39:42

the winner. But if she could become aware of when she's in

Unknown: 00:39:48

fear, and when she's in trust, maybe there's the wind when

Unknown: 00:39:53

there's the middle ground where you can like, okay, I was

Unknown: 00:39:57

scared. I'm going to try and calm down. And look at this from

Unknown: 00:40:01

another person's perspective. And don't kind of close up and

Unknown: 00:40:06

think I'm all alone, I have to do something and panic. If you

Unknown: 00:40:11

trust the other person, even just a little bit, you can like

Unknown: 00:40:15

work your way toward. Okay, that worked. All right. Now let's try

Unknown: 00:40:19

it with another person, you know, and you kind of like, make

Unknown: 00:40:22

your in-group bigger and bigger. Yeah, sounds cheesy, but I don't

Unknown: 00:40:28

know. That's just, that's what like, I wanted to tell you guys

Unknown: 00:40:32

while I was listening to you talk to each other. Mm hmm. No,

Unknown: 00:40:36

that's beautiful. It makes total sense.

Unknown: 00:40:40

So Amanda Brooks chimes in with technology has evolved faster

Unknown: 00:40:46

than our brains can assimilate it fully. That's That's true.

Unknown: 00:40:51

totally true. And we're so reliant on technology now that

Unknown: 00:40:57

it's all coming too fast. In my opinion, our brains are like,

Unknown: 00:41:00

short circuiting a little bit.

Unknown: 00:41:03

Oh, yeah. And then when it comes to online dating, I feel there's

Unknown: 00:41:08

so many frustrated people out there. And I just think, man,

Unknown: 00:41:11

we're not meant to meet like that, like, the nonverbal cues,

Unknown: 00:41:16

you know, the scent. Like the subtle things that you see right

Unknown: 00:41:22

away, when you see a person life, you don't on a profile

Unknown: 00:41:26

picture, and people are not aware enough to put that into

Unknown: 00:41:30

their little bio. So it's, it's very tough, and we have to be

Unknown: 00:41:37

careful to learn how to use technology and to not forget

Unknown: 00:41:42

that we're still animals. We still like we want to be primal,

Unknown: 00:41:47

we want to be wild. And we're not robots yet.

Unknown: 00:41:52

Not yet, but we better watch out. transhumanism is coming. I

Unknown: 00:41:59

don't want it to. So on what you were saying that, you know, the

Unknown: 00:42:05

scent. I think that's a huge one. Because what what were

Unknown: 00:42:08

pheromones about? Right? Why do people have pheromones? And when

Unknown: 00:42:12

when you wear cologne or perfume, you mask that and you

Unknown: 00:42:18

can't smell that anymore. And so it's almost like when when the

Unknown: 00:42:22

craziest thing I ever saw was was when my daughter and my ex

Unknown: 00:42:28

when she was breastfeeding, when she would put her skin to skin

Unknown: 00:42:33

and that chemical reaction that happened that caused her to

Unknown: 00:42:36

start lactating? So I mean, if that if that's possible, right,

Unknown: 00:42:43

that our chemicals are so are the cause reactions in our body,

Unknown: 00:42:50

then there has to be something to the pheromone thing, because

Unknown: 00:42:53

then you like when you know, it's almost like that, like an

Unknown: 00:42:57

intuitive thing, right? And that's gone, that's gone.

Unknown: 00:43:05

You don't have that. But then again, if you add Cologne, that

Unknown: 00:43:08

masks Exactly. Right. So there's different ways to manip we don't

Unknown: 00:43:13

even know or manipulating each other. It's just it's so

Unknown: 00:43:18

interesting. But when you talk about online dating, I just want

Unknown: 00:43:20

to say quickly, you're also dealing with an individual

Unknown: 00:43:24

person, you don't know how many friends that person has. You

Unknown: 00:43:28

don't know how they treat other people, and then you like,

Unknown: 00:43:30

awkwardly go meet this person, and they could they could behave

Unknown: 00:43:33

any way they want. And there's no friend there to call them on

Unknown: 00:43:37

their shit, right? No, I think it's, I think for another

Unknown: 00:43:41

reason, besides not being able to really get a sense of a

Unknown: 00:43:45

person. I think it's more natural to like meet a friend of

Unknown: 00:43:49

a friend because there's some accountability there. And, um,

Unknown: 00:43:54

that's another thing we had when we were in tribes is

Unknown: 00:43:56

accountability. Because you knew 100 people and that's all you

Unknown: 00:43:59

knew there was no one that could pretend to be something they

Unknown: 00:44:02

weren't. And that's pretty cool. Like, but our brains kind of

Unknown: 00:44:08

like they're kind of stuck in that if this person's close to

Unknown: 00:44:12

me, I should be able to trust them. And that's not always

Unknown: 00:44:15

true.

Unknown: 00:44:16

And there's history there too, though. Right? There's there's

Unknown: 00:44:21

history of that person. So I mean, you can online dating was

Unknown: 00:44:27

was great for me, because I could do you just go and you

Unknown: 00:44:33

know, you pick out what you want your window shop and and you

Unknown: 00:44:36

know you can the what when I first started online dating, I

Unknown: 00:44:41

wasn't very honest about my intentions. And all I was

Unknown: 00:44:45

looking forward to get laid. And you know, I would not

Unknown: 00:44:49

necessarily represent myself like that. Like that's all I

Unknown: 00:44:54

wanted. And, you know, I think that there's a lot of guys out

Unknown: 00:44:59

there that Because guess what, there's that fear. If I tell you

Unknown: 00:45:03

what I want, then you may not, then you may, that may not be

Unknown: 00:45:07

what you want, and then you'll just leave. Right? And in that

Unknown: 00:45:12

thing, which is also part of a tribe, so and so I'll lie to you

Unknown: 00:45:17

and tell you what I think you want to get me what I want, and

Unknown: 00:45:20

then just bounce later on. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:45:26

Yeah, but technology is a tool. And tools are shortcuts. So that

Unknown: 00:45:31

was a very efficient use of a tool for you.

Unknown: 00:45:36

So Roman Jones chimed in again, she said is that maybe because

Unknown: 00:45:42

we spend most of our time in our subconscious mind? I don't know

Unknown: 00:45:48

what that is in that sentence. I think we've, yeah, we I think we

Unknown: 00:45:52

went we've moved past that. And I missed Mr. Q to shoot it up

Unknown: 00:45:57

there at the right time. Sometimes that happens, guys. So

Unknown: 00:46:01

I apologize if I didn't I don't get to your question as as

Unknown: 00:46:07

quickly as like, right when you're saying so if you want to

Unknown: 00:46:10

chime back in and let me know, what is that referring to? And

Unknown: 00:46:14

then we can answer that question, Jackie, with a bunch

Unknown: 00:46:19

of numbers, almost like my driver's license number. Says,

Unknown: 00:46:26

is the young teen generation in trouble because of lack of human

Unknown: 00:46:29

contact? Hmm. I think a little bit.

Unknown: 00:46:36

I mean, I know that the they call it Gen Z. They have already

Unknown: 00:46:41

been labeled, stressed and depressed. I don't know if you

Unknown: 00:46:44

guys have heard that. Okay, that's about it. Sorry. That's a

Unknown: 00:46:52

harsh label to live, like, harsh. And that's my kids. So I

Unknown: 00:46:59

have I have a soft spot for first labels. I don't really, I

Unknown: 00:47:04

don't really like labels. But anyway. I think Yes, that's

Unknown: 00:47:08

true. Because they don't like I'm an XOR. So I grew. I had

Unknown: 00:47:12

like a childhood that was not, not online. And then there's

Unknown: 00:47:19

this. There's this sub generation called the X

Unknown: 00:47:23

xennials, which are between x and millennial. And they had

Unknown: 00:47:29

analog childhoods, but online, young adulthood. And then the

Unknown: 00:47:36

millennials, were pretty much online the whole time, right?

Unknown: 00:47:41

And if anything, that is the label I will accept, because

Unknown: 00:47:44

that's like, that's an experience you're having as a

Unknown: 00:47:47

group of people. It's almost like,

Unknown: 00:47:53

what's the word I want?

Unknown: 00:47:55

I can't come up with it. Anyway, I don't like labeling people.

Unknown: 00:47:59

But I don't mind labeling people as far as their generation,

Unknown: 00:48:04

because that is what affects how you process. Does that make

Unknown: 00:48:09

sense? Yeah, but I do have hope for the younger generation,

Unknown: 00:48:16

because they seem to be less inclined to be like they're more

Unknown: 00:48:26

inclusive. You know, they don't they don't see they don't see

Unknown: 00:48:29

color. They don't see race, they don't see any of the type of

Unknown: 00:48:33

things that our generation grew up with the boomers and their

Unknown: 00:48:38

views towards, you know, let's say blacks or, you know, other

Unknown: 00:48:42

races and stuff like that, or just being segregated or, or us

Unknown: 00:48:47

versus them. They're way more inclusive. Work hard when when

Unknown: 00:48:53

they are. Yeah. No, go ahead, and I cut you off. So

Unknown: 00:49:06

it's awesome. But it's also difficult because they grew up

Unknown: 00:49:09

in an environment where they feel a certain way, but the

Unknown: 00:49:13

society is not reflecting what, like how they feel. The society

Unknown: 00:49:18

reflecting exactly the opposite. Yeah. So it's hard, I imagine to

Unknown: 00:49:24

express yourself and to feel okay with with what you feel is

Unknown: 00:49:29

right and wrong. Probably totally stressed out and

Unknown: 00:49:34

depressed. I can see that.

Unknown: 00:49:36

Yeah, I think they're, they're not liking that hierarchy, that

Unknown: 00:49:40

still part of society. And we do that out of desperation. Because

Unknown: 00:49:45

there's so many of us, how else are we going to, you know,

Unknown: 00:49:49

categorize ourselves are coordinated with each other,

Unknown: 00:49:52

unless we do have these pockets of hierarchy. We have a

Unknown: 00:49:55

president of a company we have available, but it's really just

Unknown: 00:49:58

hearkened back to our time. When we couldn't talk to each other,

Unknown: 00:50:02

it's just out of desperation that we are dependent on these

Unknown: 00:50:06

hierarchies and categorization. And I think the younger

Unknown: 00:50:09

generations are kind of like, Okay, this is a bunch of crap.

Unknown: 00:50:13

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's definitely a revelation. But

Unknown: 00:50:21

it's tough, too

Unknown: 00:50:22

tough to get out of that hierarchy. Because it's all that

Unknown: 00:50:26

we're like, What? How else? Would we do it just be a big

Unknown: 00:50:29

blob? I mean, it's too scary to trust everyone you need, right?

Unknown: 00:50:34

You need to like decide.

Unknown: 00:50:37

Oh, complicated? Yeah.

Unknown: 00:50:41

This is where my conspiracy mind starts kicking in. Right? And so

Unknown: 00:50:46

you have you have this generation that's not not really

Unknown: 00:50:54

susceptible to the, to the divide and conquer sort of

Unknown: 00:50:58

mentality that we see coming from mainstream media we see

Unknown: 00:51:03

coming from the government we see coming from, and these are

Unknown: 00:51:06

all tools of control. Right? If we could divide you and have you

Unknown: 00:51:10

fighting amongst each other, then you're not paying attention

Unknown: 00:51:13

to in talking about, you know, what we're doing to you,

Unknown: 00:51:17

basically, right, is the big picture. Yeah. And so now, you

Unknown: 00:51:21

know, the one thing is that, you know, with schools and all the

Unknown: 00:51:26

different things that they've tried, they've done, like, I

Unknown: 00:51:29

can't remember what the name of the, the type of school that

Unknown: 00:51:33

they're in right now, or the curriculum that they're

Unknown: 00:51:35

studying. But there's no, there's no critical thinking

Unknown: 00:51:39

that's being taught in the younger generation. And then as

Unknown: 00:51:43

they separate, they started taking everybody and putting

Unknown: 00:51:46

them away, at home and doing the online education and causing

Unknown: 00:51:51

more of that stress. And what did you call them stress and

Unknown: 00:51:54

depression, within within those generations. So now, where they

Unknown: 00:52:02

could have been, okay. They're, they're, they're, they're in

Unknown: 00:52:07

line to take over in a way that wouldn't keep these particular

Unknown: 00:52:16

folks in power anymore, if they were allowed to flourish, like,

Unknown: 00:52:21

like they were going to be doing. So now something has been

Unknown: 00:52:25

implemented to, you know, a, let's take away their critical

Unknown: 00:52:29

thinking and be let's stress them and depress them, and keep

Unknown: 00:52:33

them from from, you know, expressing themselves in a way

Unknown: 00:52:37

that that could possibly, you know, take over in a positive

Unknown: 00:52:42

way for humanity.

Unknown: 00:52:44

Right, if the divide and conquer is pretty scary stuff. But I

Unknown: 00:52:51

will say that my kids are learning critical thinking, I

Unknown: 00:52:54

think there are pockets of critical thinking still out

Unknown: 00:52:58

there. And I Roman says exactly. So I still have hope, though.

Unknown: 00:53:09

Because in my head, there are groups of people that want to

Unknown: 00:53:16

manipulate us, but in my head, they're my parent, my conspiracy

Unknown: 00:53:21

mind is mostly focused on businesses, because they want to

Unknown: 00:53:25

make money in my government. Their purpose isn't to make

Unknown: 00:53:31

money. It's to, like you said control people, but I just don't

Unknown: 00:53:37

have that kind of ominous feeling. For government, I think

Unknown: 00:53:41

they mean, well, but it's hard to control. Such a large group

Unknown: 00:53:47

of people and the tools that we use to do it, they don't really

Unknown: 00:53:51

work. I mean, because there's too many people like our brains

Unknown: 00:53:55

are used to under 150 people. And so they do their best and

Unknown: 00:54:00

they kind of suck sometimes. But um, the automaton idea of like,

Unknown: 00:54:07

kids isolated there, they're not going to school and groups is

Unknown: 00:54:13

often that's kind of scary to me, because we need to, like

Unknown: 00:54:17

have checks and balances and kind of if you're isolated, and

Unknown: 00:54:21

you only learn what your family knows, then how are you going to

Unknown: 00:54:25

get along with other people? And that kind of worries me a little

Unknown: 00:54:28

bit. Mm

Unknown: 00:54:29

hmm. Yeah, there's no socialization skills. Like you

Unknown: 00:54:34

even have to socialize your animals. Like you have a dog.

Unknown: 00:54:37

You take them to the dog park, so you socialize them and get

Unknown: 00:54:39

them used to

Unknown: 00:54:41

their animals, but maybe not their children just because it's

Unknown: 00:54:45

not. I don't think they're being mean. I think it's that win lose

Unknown: 00:54:49

thing. It's like why take the risk, and we have to take risks

Unknown: 00:54:52

if we're going to get along, huh?

Unknown: 00:54:56

Yeah, I think it's watching kids too. velop like I have an almost

Unknown: 00:55:01

four year old and like, just seeing how her how she interacts

Unknown: 00:55:08

with the world as she's learning different things and learning

Unknown: 00:55:11

how to try to manipulate us. Right? in doing that whole?

Unknown: 00:55:15

Well, let me see how far I can go with this. And, you know,

Unknown: 00:55:20

it's like, that's ingrained. It's like, it's, it's like the

Unknown: 00:55:24

same thing that like how ducks node to fly south for the

Unknown: 00:55:29

winter, right? Like, how do you know that? It's just that that

Unknown: 00:55:34

DNA thing, that genetic thing that that's in your DNA, that's

Unknown: 00:55:37

a part of a part of the fabric of your life? Now, you just know

Unknown: 00:55:41

it. skill. Yeah, it's awesome. You don't have kids yet, do you?

Unknown: 00:55:49

know, I don't have kids. But I was a kid once. And it's, it's

Unknown: 00:55:57

fascinating how, yeah, when you imagine the the fetus, the baby

Unknown: 00:56:01

in the belly has nothing to worry about, they have the food,

Unknown: 00:56:04

they have the shelter, you know, they just swim around, and then

Unknown: 00:56:08

all of a sudden, you're being thrown into this world. And

Unknown: 00:56:12

you're totally dependent. And you can't speak and you have to

Unknown: 00:56:18

like, with your body, like, get the attention. And then of

Unknown: 00:56:24

course, your brain learns that and know that, oh, when I do a

Unknown: 00:56:27

certain thing, I get the attention. And then when you

Unknown: 00:56:31

learn to speak, you will use your words to get what you need.

Unknown: 00:56:36

And yeah, it's, it's, I can't imagine to having a small one

Unknown: 00:56:42

and to, to see how they manipulate you and to see how

Unknown: 00:56:46

you, you want to give them what they need. But at the same time

Unknown: 00:56:51

you you're like, Oh, they get so much control over my, my sleep

Unknown: 00:56:55

and my well being. It's, it's incredible. And that what you

Unknown: 00:57:02

say about the new generation, I wanted to add that we see

Unknown: 00:57:09

depression and aggression always as a very negative thing. And it

Unknown: 00:57:15

is feelings and phases in our lives that are very difficult to

Unknown: 00:57:20

go through. But it's also the phase where we learn most about

Unknown: 00:57:27

ourselves and the people around us. And like I just saw, if that

Unknown: 00:57:33

generation radio is going through anxiety and depression,

Unknown: 00:57:37

they will be able to one day, maybe not right now, but to wake

Unknown: 00:57:44

us up and show us okay, this is really sick, we have to do

Unknown: 00:57:50

things differently. And you know, I'm trying to see the good

Unknown: 00:57:54

thing and the bad there. I agree with you totally. Because

Unknown: 00:58:00

depression gives you Sorry, I just want to finish no, yes,

Unknown: 00:58:03

depression can give you so much depth and inside that you would

Unknown: 00:58:09

otherwise if you just float around, like averagely happily

Unknown: 00:58:14

never achieved. So I want to Yeah, I just wanted to say,

Unknown: 00:58:20

well, that's exactly what I was gonna say. And so you said it

Unknown: 00:58:23

way better than me. But you learn things when you're

Unknown: 00:58:26

depressed. Yeah. And and I think that when people are worried

Unknown: 00:58:32

that they feel depressed, sometimes you're supposed to be

Unknown: 00:58:37

because you're figuring something out. Exactly. And if

Unknown: 00:58:40

this generation is there slammed with all the information, you

Unknown: 00:58:44

know, if you were an offline kid, you got the information

Unknown: 00:58:48

that was spoon fed to you, as a kid online, you get slammed with

Unknown: 00:58:51

everything. And maybe they're just processing it all. And

Unknown: 00:58:54

they're gonna, like, come out as adults and have a lot more

Unknown: 00:58:58

figured out than we do. Oh, yeah, I want to say at the same

Unknown: 00:59:02

time, that doesn't mean we need to give up. No, no. But tired of

Unknown: 00:59:08

people saying, oh, the next generation will fix it. It's

Unknown: 00:59:10

like, we can do something to

Unknown: 00:59:13

Yeah, no, they just show us how numbed up we are and how we have

Unknown: 00:59:20

to be sensitive again and come back to the heart. Come back to

Unknown: 00:59:24

community. They will teach us and we have to be actively

Unknown: 00:59:30

listening. We can't make and quit. No. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:59:35

And when we look back at the older generations, like like,

Unknown: 00:59:40

your mom, your parents, your grandparents mind because we're

Unknown: 00:59:43

kind of in the same, you know, Gen Gen X. I think I fall into

Unknown: 00:59:47

the one where I know what it was like before the internet and you

Unknown: 00:59:51

know, on it afterwards. And you know, I know what a rotary phone

Unknown: 00:59:56

is and you know all those things and Our parents, they lived in a

Unknown: 01:00:04

generation where expressing your feelings wasn't okay. Were you

Unknown: 01:00:09

know, talking about, you know, your your losses wasn't allowed,

Unknown: 01:00:15

you know, and it's a weakness, it's all yours Don't be

Unknown: 01:00:18

vulnerable don't do any of the things that we need. Because

Unknown: 01:00:25

Because all of the all of the magic is in the struggle, right?

Unknown: 01:00:29

Everything that we need to, you know, fail forward is is in that

Unknown: 01:00:34

struggle. And, you know, I think that people resonate more with

Unknown: 01:00:40

your losses than they do with your wins, you know, in each

Unknown: 01:00:45

other. Right. And that's, yeah, and I think that's what you

Unknown: 01:00:51

know, like applications like clubhouse are so in popular

Unknown: 01:00:56

right now is because people are getting have a way to connect

Unknown: 01:01:00

with each other that isn't Instagram, that isn't all about

Unknown: 01:01:03

the wins, that isn't all about, you know, hey, look at my

Unknown: 01:01:07

highlights. A beautiful life, you know, reality probably not

Unknown: 01:01:13

know, it's Yeah, you have a beautiful, you have a beautiful

Unknown: 01:01:16

couple hours out of a week. But the rest of that week is full

Unknown: 01:01:20

of, of, you know, self doubt. imposter syndrome. You know,

Unknown: 01:01:26

somebody is cheating on me, or, or I have an opportunity to

Unknown: 01:01:30

cheat on them or, you know, just all kinds of different things

Unknown: 01:01:33

that, that come through in a regular week, right? the gamut

Unknown: 01:01:37

of of, you know, difficulties and struggles and, you know,

Unknown: 01:01:41

hey, am I gonna be able to pay the bills this week? Or, you

Unknown: 01:01:44

know, I got anything, you know, it could be it's not just the

Unknown: 01:01:48

winds are way less than than the losses? Yeah, fantasy sometimes.

Unknown: 01:01:58

Roman growth happens during times of tribulation. When

Unknown: 01:02:02

you're happy you're not really growing. Without one the other

Unknown: 01:02:07

doesn't have any weight. It's about balance. Now that's that's

Unknown: 01:02:11

true to what you come from Roman. Speaking all these

Unknown: 01:02:16

truths? Are we friends, if not requests me?

Unknown: 01:02:26

Because Yeah.

Unknown: 01:02:30

So is there anything else that we want to touch on anybody else

Unknown: 01:02:34

out there that's watching. We got about seven viewers right

Unknown: 01:02:37

now, which is pretty good, man. Thank you for participating,

Unknown: 01:02:40

everybody out there. If you have any more questions or anything

Unknown: 01:02:44

you want to say, feel free to drop them in the chat. Oh, she

Unknown: 01:02:49

said, just randomly stumbled across the live show. Well,

Unknown: 01:02:54

thank you. I'm glad you you stumbled across. Yeah, sometimes

Unknown: 01:02:59

things happen for a reason. That's so awesome. Very, very

Unknown: 01:03:05

cool. Yeah. The universe always manages to put the right people

Unknown: 01:03:09

together, right.

Unknown: 01:03:10

Yeah, you just got to be Stay calm. Yes, that's the hard part.

Unknown: 01:03:17

The really hard part, because we think we can control everything.

Unknown: 01:03:21

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 01:03:24

Yeah, the most the craziest concept for me to get ever when

Unknown: 01:03:28

I was trying to get through my addiction and all the other

Unknown: 01:03:32

stuff that I was going through was surrender to win. And as a

Unknown: 01:03:38

team, sports person, that was such a weird concept, when we're

Unknown: 01:03:42

always your I was ingrained, like to win to win to win, you

Unknown: 01:03:46

don't give up, you know, the like, especially, you know, when

Unknown: 01:03:50

I when I would think about, you know, times when I would be so,

Unknown: 01:03:55

like, I didn't know what to do, and I would start thinking

Unknown: 01:03:58

about, oh, well, you know, maybe exiting would be the right move,

Unknown: 01:04:03

because then I wouldn't have to deal with all of this stuff that

Unknown: 01:04:07

I created for myself. But then, you know, I was like, Oh, no, if

Unknown: 01:04:11

you do that, you're going to lose, you know, you can't let

Unknown: 01:04:15

things beat you. You can't let think you got to win at all

Unknown: 01:04:17

costs. But when I got the concept of surrender to win,

Unknown: 01:04:23

which was mean not giving up, but it meant, stop fighting

Unknown: 01:04:27

everything. Stop trying to control everything. Just let

Unknown: 01:04:32

things happen as they will and do the right thing, do the next

Unknown: 01:04:35

right thing, keep doing the next right thing, and stop kind of

Unknown: 01:04:39

control everything in your life. And things started to become a

Unknown: 01:04:44

lot easier. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the self

Unknown: 01:04:50

awareness.

Unknown: 01:04:51

That's like the ebb and flow like if you're stuck in win

Unknown: 01:04:54

lose, that can get really tiring and if you go to win win, like

Unknown: 01:04:58

what say Again. But say that what oh surrender to win lender

Unknown: 01:05:05

to win. That's very Win win. That's like, reach out, find out

Unknown: 01:05:12

who you can relate to, and work with them. But that's risky if

Unknown: 01:05:17

if you have the option of controlling. Mm hmm. Yeah, I do

Unknown: 01:05:23

that in my relationship now. Great. Is there like,

Unknown: 01:05:31

on a hormonal level, when it comes to like cortisol or

Unknown: 01:05:37

dopamine? Like, is there a level that we might have gotten used

Unknown: 01:05:42

to during our childhood, like a stress level, but then it's also

Unknown: 01:05:47

our chemistry who adapted to that, that we are trying to

Unknown: 01:05:52

recreate? I think familiar. Yeah. Again, the familiar. And

Unknown: 01:05:59

but that can be changed, right? When you like with meditation,

Unknown: 01:06:04

with with new approaches with new connections? That can that's

Unknown: 01:06:10

not set in stone? That's my question.

Unknown: 01:06:12

I don't think so. I mean, I'm, I'm not a medical person. But as

Unknown: 01:06:19

long as the first step is becoming aware of when the fear

Unknown: 01:06:24

kicks in, because that cortisol, the adrenaline, all that is

Unknown: 01:06:27

automatic, it's possible that some people are a little more

Unknown: 01:06:31

jumpy, if that's a word. But just just kind of knowing that

Unknown: 01:06:37

you're that it's happening. Yeah, because when, you know,

Unknown: 01:06:40

back in the day, that was a survival skill. That was really

Unknown: 01:06:43

handy. And I think we we go there more often than we

Unknown: 01:06:47

realize. It's just kind of a you can't control your reactions,

Unknown: 01:06:53

but you can kind of own up. Yeah. Yeah, like, Okay, I'm

Unknown: 01:06:58

gonna calm down. Just give me a minute. And then try again, like

Unknown: 01:07:01

you said, the next best, the next best action that was said

Unknown: 01:07:07

something like that. Yeah, very good. Something I heard

Unknown: 01:07:11

somewhere. regurgitating, we just imitate, we're not that

Unknown: 01:07:17

different from any other living thing.

Unknown: 01:07:20

Yeah, and I'm not that smart either. So I mean, I take a lot

Unknown: 01:07:23

of stuff that I hear in different places it sound

Unknown: 01:07:26

really, really smart. And regurgitate them out. And you

Unknown: 01:07:30

know, I try them too. And a lot of the times the things that

Unknown: 01:07:34

work. I'll, I'll you know, I'll talk about right.

Unknown: 01:07:39

Yeah, well, you're building a philosophy that's, then you're

Unknown: 01:07:42

building your balloon. Yeah, we all need that. Right. Um,

Unknown: 01:07:46

philosophical. I never thought about that. You got to put that

Unknown: 01:07:52

on that somewhere. On your nowhere but up page. It's been

Unknown: 01:07:59

classified on Spotify as philosophical. Oh,

Unknown: 01:08:03

no, I didn't I didn't know. Oh, philosophy. That's right.

Unknown: 01:08:07

That's, that's the that's a category. I mean, on my host.

Unknown: 01:08:15

Yeah. On my hosting platform. Yes, Mark. I just wanted to hear

Unknown: 01:08:22

you say that, that's all.

Unknown: 01:08:27

You can hear that? I think you're smart. What do you need

Unknown: 01:08:32

Aurora? What do you need? No. What do I need?

Unknown: 01:08:36

I need I'm gonna read here, Robert page. nothing new under

Unknown: 01:08:40

the sun. We take what we come across and as a life we're born.

Unknown: 01:08:44

We're born philosophers. Yeah, we just gotta allow it. We just

Unknown: 01:08:48

gotta let it all out. Right? And not be scared. Yep.

Unknown: 01:08:54

Live in love and be scared. Live in trust. Trust. You can't tell

Unknown: 01:09:02

you can't love unless you trust. Yeah, trust is first. I know.

Unknown: 01:09:09

But try try trust. Yeah. That's that's a good. that's a that's a

Unknown: 01:09:18

good thing. So next time. We'll see when we come back around for

Unknown: 01:09:21

number four. Well, we'll see implementing trust in our life

Unknown: 01:09:27

and and see if we can't, what we come up with for the next one.

Unknown: 01:09:33

Yes. Oh, I have so much to two. Yeah, I think we can talk about

Unknown: 01:09:38

what we discussed here. And then what happened in the last couple

Unknown: 01:09:41

of weeks between episode two and three and yeah.

Unknown: 01:09:48

Oh, yeah. Lots. Lots happened between two and three. Yes. Yes,

Unknown: 01:09:57

I can't wait. And if and if any of you guys out there that are

Unknown: 01:10:02

viewing right now, or watching this and you like a net, you

Unknown: 01:10:07

know, you want to come on and you know, maybe you've

Unknown: 01:10:09

experienced some sort of abusive behavior in your life, maybe you

Unknown: 01:10:14

are an abuser or have been abused or you know, you're on

Unknown: 01:10:19

that spectrum of just being touched by it. feel more than

Unknown: 01:10:23

welcome to reach out to us like a net did, through the email,

Unknown: 01:10:29

know where to go but up now@gmail.com or any of the

Unknown: 01:10:34

other places like you can reach out to Aurora on her page, and

Unknown: 01:10:38

I'll let her say where she's Sorry, I didn't get a chance to

Unknown: 01:10:43

load up all of these things like I normally do on my show.

Unknown: 01:10:48

Getting a little bit sick. So I've I was kind of a, I was

Unknown: 01:10:54

laying down until about like, 20 minutes before this thing

Unknown: 01:10:58

started. I got up and you know, try to get ready real quick.

Unknown: 01:11:01

Full disclosure. So Alright, we got a couple more comments here.

Unknown: 01:11:12

Um, cave dweller. Cave dweller club calm is where you can find

Unknown: 01:11:16

a net. That's her website.

Unknown: 01:11:18

Can I interject one quick thing. Um, so my website has a bunch of

Unknown: 01:11:25

stories about cave girl, Claire. And that's the way I kind of

Unknown: 01:11:30

introduce, you know, hunter gatherer ideas and how you can

Unknown: 01:11:34

apply them to modern day. So it's kind of a tidal wave of

Unknown: 01:11:38

information. So just as an example, I'm going to recommend

Unknown: 01:11:43

that, Shawn, if you end up going to my website, look at my blog

Unknown: 01:11:48

and read just two of the 28 blog posts, I'm going to recommend

Unknown: 01:11:54

meet Claire. And two fan is human. And for Aurora, I'm going

Unknown: 01:12:02

to recommend meet Claire and the world according to Claire. I

Unknown: 01:12:08

will check it out. So he just kind of like a little

Unknown: 01:12:12

introductory thing. So I'm writing it down. So me, Claire,

Unknown: 01:12:16

and what was the second one neat, Claire. And the second one

Unknown: 01:12:18

for you is to fan is human

Unknown: 01:12:23

to fan? To follow to fan? Awesome. I'll take a look at it.

Unknown: 01:12:31

Ruby. was so fun. You're welcome. Thank you for making.

Unknown: 01:12:39

Let's we got one more question. And we'll cut out of here.

Unknown: 01:12:42

Jackie, Jackie says does anxiety have a more negative spin on

Unknown: 01:12:47

today's society versus it being a good trait when we were

Unknown: 01:12:52

running from Tigers?

Unknown: 01:12:54

Yes. But we can't just shut it off. But we if we're aware of it

Unknown: 01:13:00

helps.

Unknown: 01:13:03

All right. Well, there you go there, Jackie, hope that helped

Unknown: 01:13:06

you. And I really appreciate everybody commenting in in

Unknown: 01:13:10

participating that really makes these things a lot funner when

Unknown: 01:13:14

you have audience participation, and it really just adds to the

Unknown: 01:13:17

whole pizzazz and what we got going on here, right.

Unknown: 01:13:21

Yeah.

Unknown: 01:13:24

So Roy wants to go ahead and take us out. I think I've I

Unknown: 01:13:28

think I've hugged up most of the time here on on this livestream.

Unknown: 01:13:36

Thank you so much, john. Yeah, I think it was very insightful,

Unknown: 01:13:41

like very good to hear a professional, someone who's

Unknown: 01:13:48

like, very in depth, or very insightful about the human

Unknown: 01:13:55

psyche, to talk about abuse and to have like, a different angle

Unknown: 01:14:00

that abuse is very negative and very destructive. But it comes

Unknown: 01:14:07

from a place of fear and distrust. And when we, Shawn and

Unknown: 01:14:14

I, I'm going to put us together in a box here that will make us

Unknown: 01:14:18

aware that we can learn to be more like trustworthy, but also

Unknown: 01:14:25

to trust other people again, and we know maybe that we have a

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second chance that we're not like stuck in the abusive box,

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but can get out of there if we want to. And you make it very

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clear that we have a choice. That in the past, we maybe felt

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like we didn't have a choice. We were too scared and not

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reflected enough. But now you gave us a bunch of tools that we

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can work with and feel more empowered and more secure and

Unknown: 01:15:00

Less abusive, or on the same boat? Yeah, yeah. No, that was

Unknown: 01:15:07

wonderful. And if people want to reach out to us, you have

Unknown: 01:15:11

Shawn's email. I'm on Facebook, Aurora Eggert, or the Borealis

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experience, podcast. And yeah, I'm very excited about our next

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episode.

Unknown: 01:15:24

Yeah, I got to make sure not to take take so long in between.

Unknown: 01:15:27

I've been super busy this last this last month. So yeah, we'll

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we'll try and get more on a schedule. And we'll, we'll

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revisit and talk when we get off of this thing. And we'll figure

Unknown: 01:15:39

out a more of a schedule to be on for it. Like we were talking

Unknown: 01:15:43

we were we were wanting to do every two weeks. Okay, so yeah,

Unknown: 01:15:50

oh, well, well, we'll make that happen. We'll do this a little

Unknown: 01:15:54

bit more often. And Robert says yes to all who made the stream

Unknown: 01:15:59

happen. Well, you're welcome, Robert. Oh, thank you, Robert.

Unknown: 01:16:03

Thank you for being here. All right. Well, I think that's it.

Unknown: 01:16:09

Thanks, guys. You're welcome. Thank you. That's so nice.

Unknown: 01:16:15

I will everybody have a great weekend a pleasant day and be

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nice to each other.

Unknown: 01:16:21

Thank you so much for this entire conversation here. If you

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have any questions if you want to do on our show. please reach

Unknown: 01:16:29

out to Shawn. word to me. On Facebook, Shawn, Dustin. And we

Unknown: 01:16:37

be so happy to welcome you on to the show.