Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

This episode covers Babylon 5 Season 2 Episode 16, Knives.

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

A Babylon five watch cast by a couple of former strangers.

Now friends who are getting to know each other over one of their

favorite shows from their childhood.

Babylon five.

I am Laura.

And I'm sure fair.

today we're doing

We're doing some different, and we're just going to talk about how

excited we are for star Trek, Las Vegas.

Which is a trip.

We are both making by the time this episode.

Air's we'll be back from it.

Back to real

But recording it before we go.

with the anticipation of the event still high on our minds.

I am really, really, really looking forward to this.

I know we talked about it a little bit.

Last episode too.

so dear listener, if this is too much of us geeking about going to a star

Trek convention, what are you doing?

Listening to a Babylon five podcast.

Yeah.

Maybe, maybe find a different hobby.

to I spent a lot of time thinking about what I'm packing.

And, I'm going to do each day.

Outside of star Trek, things to do to I'm going to be a well-rounded person.

That's my intent.

And I'm going to do some

Okay.

things.

You know, one does.

Yeah.

I have every intention of, putting a nice suit on and going and playing a

single hundred dollar hand of blackjack.

I want to be there.

Can I go, can I go?

That is, that is the extent of the gambling I want to do.

I'm going to go play exactly one hand of a hundred dollars black Jack.

I'm going to have a nice suit on, Beth has bought a cocktail dress.

Explicitly for this.

Um, Yeah.

And we're just going to go and do that at some point.

Um, just live like I'm in a spy movie for about 45 seconds and then call it good.

fun.

I love to watch

I don't, I don't play games myself very well as a very.

You know, going to count.

So I'm a very risk averse person.

Yeah.

I'm not very good at gambling.

It's not something I enjoy.

but I like to watch other people that's fun.

Yeah, I have, I have no interest in gambling.

Just.

At all.

But I am in Las Vegas.

I will do the thing.

for the sake of doing the thing.

Yeah.

Have you ever played

like, you know, of those charity events where you have fake

gambling for charity reasons?

Yes, I have played craps at that exact situation actually.

Yep.

I craps, but I'm terrified of the idea of playing craps with actual money.

I went to a university.

In a town that had a casino.

and I went and walked the floor a number of times I went and gambled.

exactly twice.

my like second week on campus as a freshmen.

I went and played.

$5 worth of slots.

I won $75.

And that was that I immediately stopped.

Yeah.

Yeah, I bought a couple CDs.

Right.

I immediately went to the Meyer down the street, the 24 hour

shop and bought a couple of CDs.

Um, Yeah.

And, uh, that was it until a number of years later.

I was there, for some reason, and I'm like, you know, Roulette

has always intrigued me.

And so I went and I played roulette for maybe like 15 minutes

and I think I lost like $10.

Yeah, I feel I don't have good feelings about roulette.

Like, I don't know anything about probability and odds folks.

So you.

Math was, is out there.

probably run right over me, but I feel like the odds in roulette aren't great.

Like, like it's mathematically stacked against you.

But that's

Well there.

Yeah.

So you don't just like whenever you see roulette in pop culture, it's almost

always putting money on a single number.

a bad

Which is the, that's the worst way to play roulette.

you can also, bet on color or you can bet on thirds of the board

or you can kind of split up.

Alongside a group of numbers and do things.

There's a lot of different ways to bet.

Um,

your odds a little bit, but no, no.

Yeah.

So.

that said it was just like, Eh,

no, it wasn't a.

I don't care.

I didn't consider it a worthwhile experience.

But, you know, The Vegas.

I'll play poker with friends.

You know, and you know, like, Maybe like five, everyone throws in

like five, 10 bucks or something.

for the people who need that to feel alive.

Um,

just pay my $10 and not care.

And have a good night.

Yeah.

I like to not be the first one out, but I also never take it

seriously enough to do well.

And those kinds of things, uh, because taking it seriously is not fun for me.

so.

Yeah.

Well, I can't wait to see what we get up to.

I'm sure it's going to be fun.

Yeah, I'm sure.

There will be tropical drinks.

Uh, by a pool.

The infamous Coco no-nos.

Well, yeah, we'll, uh, we'll figure it out.

It'll be fun.

And hopefully, uh, this five minutes of rambling was enough of a cold open

but if it wasn't, I didn't want to have, before we get into the episode

a quick note about the episode order.

All right.

Give us

So.

HBO, max has knives then in the shadow of a Hadoop.

Correct.

this is actually fixing a mistake from the original air order.

there is a thread placed in this episode.

That's picked up in the next episode.

But because of the CGI effects, they got reversed in air order.

Really.

Yup.

I watched the following episode yet, so I can't

wait to pick up that thread.

well, it will be, when we read the episode description for next episode.

It will it's in there.

So.

have to wait long then.

Nope.

Good deal.

so this episode opens on Sheridan playing baseball.

What is it with these deep space captains in their love of baseball?

I think it's that, that 90 Saifai we really like our boxing

and we really like our baseball.

Yeah.

So this is in the center of the station because we see the big hollow empty.

On the baseball diamond, right.

You might be asking yourself.

Isn't this station spinning to generate its artificial gravity.

isn't it.

Wouldn't this be the place where gravity would be the weakest at the

edge inner edge of the spin, because it has the least amount of motion.

Mm.

UAPs.

Asking yourself.

Is it even possible to play baseball here?

Wouldn't the balls.

Just be flying all over from the spin of the station.

Oh, boy.

Oh, sorry.

This is not spinning the slowest.

It's spinning the fastest.

Does that mean there's more gravity?

Wait

I don't know.

Oh,

you.

Crap I'm going to have to go consult with my experts.

We already know, I don't, I don't understand physics and gravity.

I, I ruined myself in the other episode.

Um,

Uh

The answer to these questions.

Is technically, but not feasibly.

the way the gravity works with the rotations.

hitting a ball straight on.

I would be incredibly difficult.

Um

The pitch would have to compensate for the spin.

Apparently, even though it's spinning as well, but it's still, all that stuff.

It's like throwing a ball out of a moving car.

If you've ever done that.

Yeah.

that.

sounds hard.

And so, JMS actually checked into this and was told us such.

Uh, huh.

and decided that if it could theoretically happen that a

Sheraton could hit a couple home runs.

Even though it was statistically speaking, that was Servingly unlikely.

That he would do it because it was fun.

Fuck it.

Yeah, Sheridan would absolutely do that.

think

that this is a cool effect.

You know, we've got this baseball diamond, I guess, a whole diamond,

or maybe it's just a green.

and you know,

So Sheridan's had a bad day.

He spent eight hours at a meeting.

Garibaldi tries to one up him.

On his bad day.

Because he spent eight hours in the spooky zone.

Gray sector.

The B five triangle.

this is the first we're hearing about mysterious happenings

in gray sector, but it be the last.

No.

Sheridan loves some spooky shit.

He's ready to get off there and, Let's go do something stupid.

By himself,

Yeah.

He says something incredibly insensitive.

And then we cut to Lando and veer singing opera.

so yeah.

The, this opera argument that they're having.

Um, I found this extremely relatable.

I've seen many people do this.

Uh, I just love this.

I love the scene.

Uh, I, is how.

It's people that some people that I know will like argue

about their favorite tenor.

Or, you know, Puccini versus fairity.

and then they sing so nice together.

Yeah.

little duet.

And it's just so believable and they just pull it off perfectly.

A hundred percent.

I mean, I've had this argument, about Carly Rae Jepsen in

comparison to any other pop artist.

We stand our queen.

But also, I guess.

Uh, Peter Jurassic, his dad was in town when they were filming this episode.

And his dad is a big opera buff.

And so he actually helped him and was playing him stuff to

help him get this voice right.

And everything and helped him practice it on.

Oh, that's so cute.

I love to

Right.

Oh

Fun little story from the episode, season guide book I picked up.

They really lean hard into the like, sort of.

Yeah.

of the Centauri and this one, because it's, so sometimes

it's like pseudo French.

it's a little Italian.

it's a

Yeah.

We've leaned hard on the Italian button for, for this one.

For sure.

I mean, the Centauri borrow so much from Rome.

culturally that, uh, it makes sense that they would be into the Italian opera.

it's super cute.

And then.

you know, they, they wrap up their little duet and Mondo is a costed from behind.

By a hooded figure.

Yeah, we get in a quick assassination attempt to theme.

We love

Yeah, good old murdered a theme.

It's been a while.

Um,

It's an oldie, but a goodie.

you know what.

Uh, it's actually a fake out.

Yeah, surprise.

It's an old friend and Londo just got punked or whatever.

The gen Z version of that is.

I don't know.

Um,

college buddies.

Yeah, we meet of locator.

Ursa.

Jotto.

Whose brother Mishra is just in over his head.

Oh, yeah, no, that's that is a magic.

The gathering joke for like two people.

Don't worry about it.

It was like, I'm trying to get better about like, if I

don't totally pick up your joke.

Get some more info out of you because.

I

Nope.

That's, that's just meant for the people who will enjoy it.

And I've made my one and I won't make another one for the rest of the episode.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

What do you think the title vocation or means.

honestly, the I misheard is vindicator at

first and had to like rewind.

I mean, that's a pretty red title.

Yeah.

But yeah, he's, he's the government something at least, right.

He's got some sort of

does something.

Yeah.

But they're going to have some Do a catch up chat, or is this

got some stuff to do first, but he's going to come by swing by later.

Sheridan goes poking around gray sector and he

finds a gravely injured alien.

And tries to sell security before he gets got.

Yeah.

Franklin confirms it was just a Twitch or some

gasses moving around the body.

The old, the old gas buildup.

Yeah.

As a Garibaldi, gives us another reason to yell at cap.

Oh my gosh, Garibaldi can't pronounce ethnic names.

He, he pulls that and then Franklin instantly like shows him up.

It just.

And then he says, Ginza.

Um, tight, like he sneezed when he pronounced the name rude as fuck.

yes This shirt plays different now than it did then.

Huh?

Yeah.

you can tell.

How the dominant powers are shifting a little bit in our

society in the last 30 years.

Anyway.

wants to go check out the dead guy's stuff.

With

Yeah, he has this weird visual thing for a moment.

His eyes get weird.

And what I can only describe as a windows three 11 screensaver.

that's better.

I was going to call it a migraine aura, but that might be.

A little too real.

yeah, so he's got a screensaver going on.

Uh, and that makes him think twice he's he needs to go get some rest.

He's just had a big spook.

We cut.

Tolando opening up his safe.

To get a bottle of the good stuff out.

tell me you put one of these in your kitchen that you just remodeled.

Uh, safe.

No.

vault.

I have one it's called my basement.

well, but you don't

Um,

that up from the, yeah that's fine.

I

Yeah.

I guess it's bigger that way.

back in Llanos quarters.

He explains, that he and Ursa were childhood friends.

There has been allies since the early days of the Republic.

he also explains that in doing Cub.

You get fighting names.

Kim confirm.

Um, I've had a number.

I've had a number of them over the years.

Um, so most of them have been like my Lark character names.

which count ish.

Uh, but then I also have been a member of like a Hema club.

which is effectively a dueling and training club, very similar

to what this feels like.

It was.

for them.

And I had a fighting name there too.

they affectionately referred to me as Flamingo.

Oh, funny.

Uh, because I have a tendency.

When I am fighting.

And I, instead of doing a like strong forward lunch, I will

do a like semi defensive lunch.

And pivot forward and post up on one leg.

And my other leg will fall back to balance as I swing forward.

and this has been described as looking like a Flamingo.

So that is where the nickname comes from.

think that is a very good nickname.

I like it.

I compared this whole thing to, I went with the college

metaphor to, uh, you know, he's explaining the fraternity rules.

we find out that his nickname was Pasa laity.

because he fought like a madman.

And

think we are, these are animals, right?

And Paso is crazy.

So he was at fault, like a crazy Liani.

And, uh, Ursa was skull to HRA.

Or silent beast.

For his fighting style.

When I was in college, we, uh, we made up a fraternity.

Yeah.

of us that were all honors students on the honors floor of our dorm.

Okay.

ourselves Chi iota, which is X Because we were the 11th floor.

Of the

Okay.

And we actually had shirts made and some of the other

fraternities didn't love that.

Yeah.

we had shirts made.

And my, name on the back of mine was Amazon.

I'm kind of tall.

Yeah.

So I was like, yeah.

So universal.

College experience.

If you haven't had it yourself, you relate to others who have so.

Cool.

fun.

they drink out of some ridiculous goblets.

It looks hard when they're drinking out of these

There are two headed goblets.

And they look like they are.

Trying not to spill.

And it's

Yeah.

very funny.

It's good at cuts when it does.

I want to make.

like this.

Just absolutely ridiculous.

I'll put it on my to-do list.

Yeah, but it's no.

Sheridan is dozing on his couch in his

I tried to sleep off his bad trip.

He's on, He wakes up to the sound of some growling and

Yeah.

good CGI monster.

Yeah.

It's like a little dinosaur thing.

flying dinosaur drag, anything.

It is a gray war.

We find out.

From Jan oh seven.

Which if you recall.

Is the planet that Dr.

Franklin's dad is the scourge of.

When they list off all of his titles, he's the scourge of

Seven.

I didn't catch that.

That's a nice tie in no.

I was all like, did I hear that right?

And round it.

And then I check the Babylon five Wiki and it's actually not

listed in the Babylon five Wiki.

somebody should

So.

I will not be that person.

Well now

I just sat there.

I sat there for five minutes and I learned something about myself.

I am not a person who's going to add it, edit and add things

to the Babylon five Wiki.

Well now we know something about Dr.

Franklin stad that, He must be pretty bad-ass if he's the scourge of the

planet where these things come from.

Right.

I want to hear that story now.

I mean, probably not.

It's probably terrible involves the deaths of many non military personnel or just

the deaths of many things in general.

And I really am not interested in that, but hypothetically.

I'm interested in this story.

Uh, Sheridan's really freaked out.

He fires off his PPG at this monster.

just happens to be in the neighborhood.

shows up really quick.

The careful he makes kind of an insensitive joke about how.

He used to see things too, when he was drunk.

Sheridan doesn't buy it.

I think that's also fallout.

From the ISN episode.

To be perfectly honest.

Garibaldi makes a couple of reference.

There's a couple of references.

Extra Franklin makes one too here.

To share it in losing his mind.

And everyone kind of like pokes a little bit of fun at him about it.

And I think it's because on.

Um, on their CNN or whatever.

He was just like, well, you don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps.

And then literally two weeks later, he's going insane.

I think, I think everyone is aware of the comments and bleeding in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Apparently the Marc Hab, who we found dead bashed his own head in which Does seem

Yikes.

could be in some danger.

Y'all.

Yeah.

He's a little shaken, but he goes to work anyway.

Yeah.

his bio scan was clean, just like Sheridan's we find.

over Londo.

Or is it gets heated about a conspiracy.

Involving starting a war with the Killing the prime minister

and making Cortazar Hemper.

And Linda's like, what?

Who, if you knew you tell me right.

And you knew if you knew what was going on with this conspiracy, you'd

say something, but you don't know, you don't know otherwise you wouldn't

be here, but I mean, if you did know, you'd say something, right, like.

You know,

So you'd say it.

Yes

is all.

I'm bringing it up because my family is about to be named traders.

This whole thing is very awkward and sad.

They're going to be declared traders.

just.

Seems to genuinely want to help, even though he very quiet lipped about

knowledge he has about the aforementioned, you know, Assassinations and stuff.

But, or is it just says, I want you to stand beside me.

You know, I'm

Yeah.

to save my family Londo without really thinking any of this through.

Yeah, he'll do it.

He'll, uh, stand by his house and dismiss these accusations before they happen.

Yeah.

throw a big party to celebrate their Alliance.

Over in CNC Ivanova feels it's too quiet as a shuttle arrives.

and Sheridan's vision gets all fucky again, as he sees Anna ship explode

in front of him off of the station.

Which just worries everyone.

Frankly.

It's a little concerning.

Uh, he starts demanding people to scan that area of space, but

nobody saw the solution nation.

so we, he leaves rather awkwardly.

he does at least go straight to med lab.

So he

Yep.

to Franklin about his problems.

this is probably a conversation they should have had after he

fired a gun in his quarters.

Yeah.

You know,

Yeah.

but Franklin Z still, he can't find anything wrong.

This is where he makes

Yeah.

crack about, you know, you gotta be a little crazy to be in charge, right?

that as possible Sheridan got like a virus that they can't detect

Yeah.

he's having some stress.

that's

Yeah.

He's like, yeah, it could be some virus, some new, some new fangled by

a risk as those come around every.

every.

once in a while.

Some new virus comes out.

We don't know what's going on in the medical community.

Doesn't really know how to react at first.

But it's probably just stress you big, old, stressed out dummy.

Medical leave.

We definitely don't need to keep you here under quarantine.

No.

Nope.

Nope.

I want you to go out and relax and see as much of the station as possible.

I didn't even catch that until you started saying it.

And I was like, oh wait, that's really stupid.

Oh, yeah.

We all know better now.

Don't wait.

Anyways, Linda reaches out to Lord REFA who's all like you're

hanging out with that trader.

Does anyone know you're hanging out with that trader.

And the one was all like, fuck you, dude.

I don't need you.

You need me and your going to fix this.

I mean, he is really fucking right.

He is.

the only reason the Centauri had their victories.

In the first place was Londo his connection with the shadows.

I don't understand where reefa thinks he gets off here.

Uh with threats, like, why would you cling to the coat of a trader?

He might take you down.

It's like now, what do you have without Wanda?

REFA really, what do you have?

Right.

very bad play.

Alondo asked for a drink and more information

about what's going on back home.

And then share it in spec at the diamond and only hitting foul balls this time.

bad.

This time we had some homers in the first one, we had lots of fair balls.

Now we're just fouls everywhere.

Yeah, clearly distracted.

Bruce box Lindner is a method actor.

and went for the heaviest batt possible.

Uh, per the season guide, just like when he was swinging the giant pipe around,

did that sword fight against the NARKN?

He purposefully exerted himself for the scene.

He did it again here.

Yeah, he's real sweaty.

Yup.

He's also wearing some Chicago Cubs gear.

Oh

His hat is a hat.

Uh, from the Agamemnon, like how most, like, you'd see a Navy hat

from someone who served on a ship.

Um, these days it's exactly like that, but for the Agamemnon, uh, but

his shirt is a Chicago Cubs shirt.

Which is his hometown and his favorite team, the actor.

Oh, that's very nice.

Garrett Garibaldi comes back to interrupt, batting practice

Yeah.

It tells him that the mark had came in through sector 14, which we

Ooh.

it the home of Babylon squared.

Sheridan's never heard of it, which I thought was interesting.

I know Garibaldi gives us this.

Um, well, all the records were confiscated.

Yeah.

people that came back and went back to their lives.

How did we

Yeah.

that?

Well, I mean, it wasn't a fully staffed station.

They managed to evacuate it in what is it like?

It's like a hundred people or something.

Yeah,

It's like 10 or 12 shuttle runs.

I think.

From the episode without checking.

It's it's it's, it's a non it's definitely like more than 50 people, but under like

250 people, like it's enough people where.

You could witness protect these people.

I don't know.

I'm not sure I buy it.

Also sure.

He's been out on the rim, you know, Like he was out doing stuff.

So he might not be the most up-to-date.

sure, sure.

But Garibaldi has made a copy of everything for him, so he

can go watch Babylon squared and figure out what's going on.

Yeah, he's going to watch the episode.

Uh, after this to notes up.

Um,

there too.

Yeah.

We go to some Centauri like dance club.

Is where Ursula's banquet is at.

these preps, love this.

A decadent.

that they've got, they're just ready for Centauri needs at any time.

Yeah.

Lando sits down and he's all like, look, I got this.

I called my boy REFA and hers is all like REFA what madness are you involved in?

Got to get one in every time.

Uh,

Linda's like he's a bro and hers is like, fuck that guy.

He's the one who talks shit in the first place your in on it.

Hm Ursa tells Londo that you cannot build an empire on slaughter and deceit.

But what my theory presupposes is maybe they all are.

Every last one, perhaps.

Yeah.

I think maybe what he means is like you can't build a lasting empire.

slaughter and deceit, but I'm pretty sure there

Yeah.

empires that have been built on slaughter and deceit, my friend.

Ursa gives Londo a sword, which Alonda refuses.

And then he uses that sword to challenge Alondo to a fight to the death.

Londo takes the gift and the challenge he says in the spirit they

are presented or something like that.

I'm thinking to myself, surely at this point, Londo understands the plan,

Like

but he will.

Yeah

Sheridan's having a really bad tonight's day.

And he sees his parents randomly.

he leaves without his mobile, as Franklin calls instead of

texting like a normal person.

And then he decides to take a star fury out for a spin.

Yeah he's just going to go out for he using his command override.

For no reason.

Londo shows up and reminds, uh, Ursula to never bet against a

Sicilian when death is on the line.

Yeah, He does.

Remark that, his life is on the line and he doesn't want to kill her.

. And, you know, I know that.

He asks or is a later.

he Made him do this, but I was like, oh, at this point he

knows, he knows what he's doing.

Really.

Yeah

asking why out of like desperation.

He wants confirmation, I guess, he knows what needs to happen.

I think.

So after this, they change into their fencing gear.

Yeah Tell us about their fencing here.

Yeah, I've got a bunch of notes about their fencing gear.

Let's nerd out.

You'll start out.

So I, I established my credentials.

Uh, I feel like I've talked about it a bunch at this point.

And also I have like made close to fight in.

And also I've got various like different periods and

cultures, clothing to fight in.

Sure

so I know a bit about this.

I wouldn't, I'm not by no means like an expert.

Uh, I don't have like a master's degree in medieval construction.

Like some of my friends.

Uh, but.

I have some things to say here.

So I want to say ERs, this fencing close are actually incredibly practical.

Okay.

Yeah.

If you're not going to wear protective gear, which you should always,

but it's a fight to the death.

So maybe that's the point.

right Yeah.

but even then, there are things you would want to do, and they

do take a little bit of precaution.

They were like, it looks like oven myths.

gauntlets, they've like very heavily padded gloves that bulk

out their hands and forearms a lot.

that would make sense from a fight to the death perspective.

because a blow to the hands will end a fight, but it will not

end a fight with someone dead.

Yeah, right.

so that's, uh, that's a solid play there.

but they're wearing very baggy clothing.

Yes, they are.

Which is perfect.

You don't want anything.

That's going to restrict your movement.

the only time you should ever consider wearing anything that will restrict

your movement is when it's literally going to save your life to wear it.

Got it.

especially when you're fighting, they're fighting with smaller swords.

With very exaggerated blades

They're massively thick blades.

In all dimensions.

Swords are a lot lighter than most people realize.

a like four foot, five foot sword.

If you actually go to a museum in lake way, a historically appropriate sword.

I only going to wait like two and a half, three pounds.

Most of the time.

Okay.

Blades are very thin and they're balanced.

Well, these are so large and ridiculous.

There's no way you could balance them.

and based off their design, I would guess they're mostly meant

for stabbing instead of slashing.

Right.

usually when you've got a giant exaggerated point like

that, that's what it's for.

Sure I could see that.

they spend most of their time slapping their swords.

I'll get into that later.

but yeah, the super baggy clothing.

besides not restricting your movement.

also kind of adds a layer of very light protection.

Okay

a blade could get caught in the loose fabric and actually

get pulled away from you.

So, it could tangle a blade and actually save your arm.

Even though it's not a like piece of armor.

Yeah.

Better than nothing.

Not, not what I would recommend.

And if you asked me to dress for a sword fight, not what I would wear.

But better than nothing.

like the little bow they do to each other at the beginning of this.

Yeah, I've got a bit about this too, actually.

Uh, ceremonial, salute.

Uh, almost every club.

or dueling society has their own.

some of them, there's a lot of very simple, especially

in the European cultures.

It's very common to raise a sword, cross guards to your lips.

Um, mimicking kissing a crucifix.

Yeah.

We've seen that before in movies and TV and stuff.

Sure.

Yeah, that's, that's probably the most common.

just basic salute, but there are.

Infinitely more complex salutes, from individual clubs, doing their

own things to more formalized.

Solutes like Sinclair salute with five guards.

Which is a historical Scottish Claymore salute.

. Uh, where it's effectively a small demonstration that you've been trained

in sword fighting there's practice cuts.

There's a, like the name goes, you go through five different guards.

So by.

Demonstrating this you're showing that you are at the very

least a trained sword fighter.

It's not something that just someone could do or know how to hold a sword

necessarily because it's not just a lake sword in front of you guard.

You've got hanging guards, you've got overhead guards.

stuff like that.

So they fight and it's terrible.

Um,

it's overly telegraphed the.

Ursa kicks Londo sword at one point.

It's it's bad.

The one thing they do to correct.

which is rotate around each other.

Kind of back and forth.

They don't just go in one direction.

That's 100% something that happens in most duels.

That don't have a strict rule set that prevents it.

Or you're very specifically fighting on a ship where you can't.

Which is a whole other set of sword fighting training.

You might learn how to do.

Yeah.

of sword slapping.

They just kind of slap at each other, which is very strange.

When I started learning.

Actual sword fighting.

Like not, not the larb.

Not, not the, for funsies, but like,

Actual sword fighting.

My instructor.

One of the first things out of his mouth before we even got started was

if you want to watch a sword fight in popular culture and media and

TV movies, and be able to enjoy it.

This is your last chance.

Leave now.

We've now.

or forever hold your peace.

And, This goes for a bit.

we get a punch in the head, but things that would actually happen.

During a bind.

but they're not fight ending.

Uh, binders when the two swords clash.

this is, uh, this is called the bind.

It's when the swords bite together.

So when a sharp blade hits a sharp blade, they actually get stuck together.

Oh

Now you can remove them.

Right.

You know, like you can pull out and do more stuff.

But especially when you've got swords that look like they're

this over exaggeratedly heavy.

That's going to be a heavy bite.

and that bind is going to be a whole thing.

If a sword fight doesn't end at first bind.

Especially given the skill level, both of these sword fighters

purport themselves to be at.

huh.

Everyone is fucked up.

Both people in this sword fight have, have fucked up if a fight

does that end on the first bind.

You hit a bind, you kill the other dude.

It happens then.

Every time, the first time it happens.

It's that's, that's what a fight ends.

95% of the time.

Now you might be able to save yourself in retreat.

If you're very skilled in the other person, isn't.

but if sword fighters of equal skill will almost always either kill

each other or one of them will die.

When you hit that first bind.

I take this as a, one of a few signs in the site that, uh,

fighters are.

Older.

Yes.

have not practiced in a while.

They have not.

And they're like, they're both like, oh, you haven't lost a step.

Oh, neither of you.

And it's just all like, oh no, you're both just fuck ups.

And

This whole thing is intercut with like Sheridan also

getting into sector 14 and, and

Yes.

And ejecting the alien from his body in a frozen,

like horror mask of a face.

Um,

Yeah.

Uh, yeah, I showed it gets fucked up by some tacky ons for a minute.

A tale as old as 80 Saifai.

Yeah.

When we cut back from Sheridan back to the fight.

I don't know how long it's supposed to have been, these men

are very sweaty and very tired.

Yeah.

Yep.

They have been at it.

Sword fights do not last this long.

Yeah, it looks

Let me tell you.

It's supposed to have been a half hour or something.

It's very, um, Uncomfortable.

I would say.

If I had to guess the average.

Length of a.

One hit.

Sword fight.

Uh, we're looking at fight ending targets.

Over the course of all of my, Hema career.

I would probably put it at 35 to 40 seconds.

Average.

So some much shorter, some much longer for whatever reason.

but.

Like actual, like we have started sword fighting, not just the dancing around

each other a bit, but you have actually, your swords have touched once that

that is the start of the sword fight.

Not long.

No.

These guys have been back and forth for awhile.

Yeah.

so.

As they're getting tired.

Londo gets knocked to the ground.

And You know, Stands over him, ready to deliver a killing blow.

that he's not going to.

And, uh, Londo stabs him.

Yep.

Yep.

We'll endo get some.

Mondo

he's Practically crying.

Right.

Yeah.

he holds her so well, he dies and he promises to protect her.

Is this family.

like his own and just patriarchy strikes again, my man, Patriarchy ruins lives.

Sheridan.

talks about his experience with the gas cloud.

And Franklin thinks it's just cool.

This is a very honest reaction from Franklin here.

He wants to go back and put Sheridan's life back in danger

so he can meet the cool alien.

Not worried about health and safety at the station at all.

Nope.

Now or share it it's health and safety for that matter.

quarters.

pours himself.

Another brief.

Sorry.

And I thought this inner exchange with fear was very, very interesting because.

If you're tells Londo that he had no choice, which is an

interesting take for veer, I think.

Because fear a few episodes back told Londo there's always a choice.

And now he's trying to make Londo feel better.

By saying that the choice was taken from him.

And Londo does explain that, or is this death was a necessary sacrifice.

It was the only way to save his family at this point.

because part of their dueling society is that, you know, if one person is killed

in the stool to the death, the Victor has responsibility over their family.

Now.

Yeah.

And Mondo starts to realize that, huh?

Maybe I did have some choices in that other episode where

I said I had no choices.

And maybe they were bad choices.

And veer is.

Exotic for this realization.

He says, you

Yeah.

maybe this is good.

we can make some new choices now.

But then again, Londo doubles down.

And he just says, no I have no choice now.

I'm on this path that I can't do anything about it.

Yep until the end.

Of the episode.

Just Fucking

Huh.

Yep.

It is.

Jeff air.

How do you feel about this episode?

Oh, To, I guess,

Yeah

It had its problems.

And to be honest, this episode felt like a slog.

When I watched it for my notes.

It took me like three hours to get through this episode.

Because I would just pause and go do something like every five minutes.

Cause it just was not keeping me.

It was just like, I did not.

I did not have a good time watching this episode.

Uh, Sheridan's plot was not well executed.

Um, JMS even went on record as saying that it's one of his big regrets from the show.

Uh, it was how the specifically, the B plot in this episode turned out.

He wanted a reason to bring up Ana though.

he wanted to remind the audience of Anna, which is the whole,

why this whole thing happens.

Uh, he was like, I thought I might bring these aliens back later.

now that we've kind of had first contact with them, but that never panned out.

Yeah.

The Marc app will be around.

Yeah.

Man.

agree with you.

Like I had some of the same trouble getting the notes made.

And part of that was just my own life.

Being a little chaotic.

But.

The Sheraton plot.

just not.

Like fun for me.

I didn't remember it.

As I said in the last episode.

Totally.

my mind.

The Wando plot.

I think it's important.

Too.

Show that Londo is facing some consequences.

From some of those actions he's already taken and make him suffer a bit.

the horrible things he's done.

But.

Yeah.

there were just parts of the execution that.

Where it as fun and it just wasn't as.

to get through as, now for word and they're all on our lives.

Like it, it just wasn't.

Yeah.

of episode for me.

So I think I put this one.

I think I'll put it down at a two as well.

Okay.

Um, it, it does feel a little below average, right?

That's what I'm.

Number three is average.

That's my benchmark.

And this one feels a little.

Under that for me.

Yeah.

episode.

Yeah, next up, we've got season two episode 17 in the shadow of Zaha doom.

Sheridan discovers the amazing truth about his wife, Steph and

Kosh reveals an ancient secret that threatens the universe.

This feels like a big plot time.

Doesn't it?

It does.

And if memory serves it is, but I'm not going to watch it

till we're back from Vegas.

Probably.

Yeah.

Yeah, I might watch it in Vegas, but.

We'll

I I'm excited about this one in particular.

Anytime you bring up Zoho doom, you know, things are happening.

Yep.

See what you were talking about about, there was a thread

that needed to come back in the next

Yeah.

So I'm glad HBO, max put it in the right order.

All right.

Well, thank you to Jeremy Siegel for our lovely theme music, you can find

more of his music at Jeremy Siegel.

40 two.bandcamp.com.

thank you to angry deck time machine for our podcast artwork.

And you can join our discord server and the community there.

So she does an email over it.

Who are you?

gmail.com.

We'll read it in the next meal.

Segment.