We hear how Rodney P's music career started through a lucky break with seminal UK Hip-Hop group London Posse, a foursome assembled specifically to tour support Mick Jones of The Clash, and how that led to Rodney becoming an acclaimed solo artist and dubbed "Godfather of UK Hip-Hop"

We also hear Rodney's frank views on the state of the music industry, public perception of Hip-Hop, UK politics and why being arrogant in business sometimes is necessary. All that plus more on this week's BWB Extra.

BWB is powered by Oury Clark.

Hello and welcome to Bwb Extra where we get to know English mc and media personality.

Rodney P.

A little better.

We hear how Rodney's music career started through a lucky break with seminal UK hip hop group, London Posse, a Fullsome assembled specifically to tour support Mick Jones of the Clash.

And how that led to Rodney becoming an acclaimed solo artist and to being dubbed the Godfather of UK Hip Hop.

We also hear Rodney's Frank views on the state of the music industry, the public perception of Hip Hop UK politics, and why being arrogant in business is sometimes necessary.

Let's wind the clock right back.

Okay.

Two.

Much younger Rodney, much, much younger.

How did you end up doing what you're doing?

You told us earlier when you were at school, you had no idea what you were gonna do completely by accident.

You fell over and became a rapper pretty much.

No.

I mean, hip hop came to the uk, came in various times, but the main, the main time the culture came to the UK was when Malcolm McLaren did Buffalo Girls.

Which is another really successful record, top of the pups again.

And, um, off the back of that, everyone started break dancing, body popping, you know, all the, all the, doing the graffiti, putting the tags up on the walls differently to how it was done before.

Yeah.

And I got involved in that.

I was a break dancer.

I was a body popper.

I had a graffiti tag.

I was terrible with all of it.

Rubbish, completely rubbish.

But then the rapping, it was rapping.

So I got into the, the wrapping part.

I thought like, well, I can do this, this, this, this part I can do.

But it was purely as fun and hanging out with my friends.

Nothing.

Were you, were you a quiet, shy kid at the time, or you were Relatively, relatively, yeah.

Relatively.

You were writing poetry already?

No, I'd already been writing poetry, but when I started rapping it was something else.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So now, now I've got, you know, it's American.

I got my American swagger and my, my hip hop swagger and my AADE trainers and my cango hats.

The, the energy's different from writing poems, you know, and, um, But like I say, the, the idea of having a career doing this was unimaginable.

Like, this is, this is never gonna be my job.

This is just something I do with my friends.

And then one of my friends, a guy named Si, Paul Rest in Peace, he was a really talented, what you call a human beatbox.

He had a connection with, um, he knew Don Letz and he knew Mc Jones because they had seen him on a video performing and had contacted him because they were.

They had a lot of my mindset about music comes from them.

Mm-hmm.

They were very much into collaboration and, and, and helping, you know, the artists coming up behind them get a foot up.

So when the Clash had disbanded, um, Joe Strummer and Mick Jones had fallen out, the Clash had disbanded.

Then Mick Jones, he was the guitarist in the Clash.

Um, what was his song?

Should I stay or should I go?

Yeah, right.

That's Mick Jones song.

They've started a new band called Big Old or Dynamite, so that's Don Letz and Mick Jones.

Don Letz is like a famous, he was a photographer and a club promoter and a dj, and he was like Bob Marley's tour guide when Bob Marley was in England.

He's very well connected guy and so they've started this new band.

They've said, we are going on tour.

And they invited CPO to go on the tour with them.

So he had gone on tour with them in 19, maybe 84, I think.

And so the next year had come around and they, they've invited him again, but they said, now this, you know, put together a show and invite some of your friends.

So CPO has come to us and said, you know, there's this possibility we, there's this opportunity.

So we've all gone to Mick Jones's house and he's got a studio set up in his basement.

So we've just, how old are you at this point?

I'm like, I've just left school, so I'm 17.

Yeah, I'm 17 now and we weren't aware of it, but I guess we were kind of in the midst of an audition.

So we're this day partying, free styling, doing our little raps and you know, and off the back of that we got on, invited to go onto all of down.

Wow.

God.

Lucky.

Sometimes the biggest thing.

Yeah, it's when I say I fell into it, it's a complete accident.

If I wasn't there to see SPO that day.

I wouldn't have been on that tour.

There's another guy, he was a, another UK hiphop artist, MC Mellow, who was supposed to come and couldn't come because he had to go to work and, and Oh no, I didn't meet Jimmy Page cuz I had to go to work night about, yeah.

Like he had a, he had a successful career, but it was never he, he was never what we were because we had that first step, you know, so.

That's kind of how I fell into it.

It was, I fell into it.

Wow.

The very first show I ever did was on stage at that tour.

You bastard, you just skipped all the shit, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were just like left at the traffic lights.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

We just, and, and that was it.

And I mean, we did that and we never had a record deal then, so we're doing all of this.

We haven't got a record deal, we've never had a record out and we don't know what we're doing on stage cause we've never put together a show before, but we just.

Went and and winged it.

And then it was the passion and the love that we had for it.

And also, remember, we're doing hip hop and we're doing hip hop to a 95% UK white audience.

This is the UK tour, of course, this is the UK tour.

And then the first tour was the UK tour who like, they're like, they lean to punk rock and rock and, but we as London Paste had already decided that we don't wanna rap in fake American accents, we wanna do it in our UK accents.

So they really related to that.

So we got a really good response from them when, at the time the UK hip hop scene didn't really like us because we no longer sounded American.

We went into sound like we were from England.

He's, he's so, I mean, I know it's so hard for everyone to understand, but I, I'm old enough to be listening to hip hop to remember that sort of transition and how difficult it was to.

Listen to someone rapini.

It's so weird to brainwashing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was, it was, we, we were very much a, not the norm torn, so it was, it was white rock and punk audiences had a much clearer understanding of what we were trying to do than the UK hiphop audience, which was 95% black and the, and the punk and rock audience was 95% white.

So we, we were.

Kind of in this quandary, but we made it work Now, I mean, now as, as Andy said earlier, I'm considered the godfather of UK hip hop.

I don't accept that title because I know how much work was put in before me.

But you know, now it's the norm.

If you come out as an English artist with a fake American accent, people will laugh at you.

But it took years to get there.

Years.

But I think A Godfather is an appropriate title given bridge builders given where, because it means more than, You, it, it's like, yeah, I think you translate it as, I'm not the original og, you know, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, you know, but to be fair, um, you know,

got, there's a, there's and a paternal, it's actually quite a horrible word, but there's a nice aspect to sort of, you know, may maybe, you know, maternal's a nicer word, but, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a care, there's a godfather, you know, godfather is an all negative.

It's quite, quite nice.

No, I, I don't think, I don't think it's negative at all.

And it depends whether you'll thinking of godfathers as somebody's godfather or you're thinking who's his head's in bed?

It's like, you know, that's, wait, he does.

Yeah.

There is, you know, don't throw politics on the chat.

We gonna have some fucking horse edge going up.

No, I think, I think it more comes down to the fact that for me, I've just been here through the generation.

Yeah.

I, so, yeah, so I was part of the first generation that was putting out music, and I'm still here in 2023.

That's, that's, there's not many people that can say that they've been here for that stretch of time and won as many different heads within the sea.

I mean, lyrically I wanted to take it away from being a London thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, because like, like hiphop was very London centric.

Mm-hmm.

If you came, us being artists and having London accents was hard enough.

If you come from Bristol or Manchester or Liverpool or with these, it was like almost impossible.

So, um, Yeah, the, the dedication scene, I, I, I felt like it was important that we, we represent the fact that there is a UK scene.

It's not a London scene, it's not just a local Covent garden scene, but there was a, a UK scene and that's that, that's why that opening line was what it was.

You never knew about us English kids.

It's not us London kids.

It's, you know.

Ah, so it's very, so it's, you came actually, and actually that's true cuz I, I come from just Western London.

You're right.

It opens it up as a, as a, as a thing.

Yeah.

I don't think winds is really a big sl is is my hometown.

You know, ever since they changed our area code to slum, my mum always died.

We were just outside slouch anyway.

You know, poor slough.

Do you have a long-term goal?

I just wanna be happy, man.

That's it.

I mean, again, I'm of a age where I have no desire to be front and center.

I do like festival season still.

You still enjoy it?

I love festival season.

I'll be, I'll be on the road for the festival season.

Ah.

But, um, it's funny because just, just two days ago, a friend of mine, I, I spent all of January and, and the beginning of February in Jamaica.

My mom passed last year and I've been trying to find her birth certificate.

So I can apply for a Jamaican passport and that dual citizenship and that's very much part of my retirement plan.

You know, I, I need to have a space in Jamaica that I can just go to and lay my head and you know, rest up.

So that is definitely the end game for me and plus a lot of what I do now.

I don't need to be in England to do it.

These Italian firm we've worked with for years, ah, Marco, big up Marco and the team.

Anyway, there's such a funny lot turned up here and it's really nice to see him.

And then he was like, You know, he's fucking asking me passports at the airport and he says that London's colder people aren't as nice in London.

And I was, I, I was like, look man, I'm really sorry about Brexit.

And we were terribly embarrassed about, and I'm sorry about the passport thing, but we ain't fucking colder.

That's bullshit.

No, you are, you are.

And do you think, do you think, I've heard this from other people, all the atmospheres change?

Do I think London is what, since Brexit or generally in Europe in, since Brexit has become a colder place in know place, I, I do think so.

Yeah, I do.

You do think, I think Brexit.

In and of itself was very divisive.

Mm-hmm.

It was.

And I think it's just the culture war is being stoked.

Yeah.

Didn't, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I don't think, I don't think it's an accident.

I think there's a lot of it is, is on purpose.

I saw, I saw a report today before I left out of my house.

No, I, in fact, it was a post, but it was a clip.

From question time.

I'm a question time.

I don't really watch the news, but I do like question time.

That sounds great.

Cause his opinions from people around the country.

I enjoyed what he was talking about was that as it stands at the moment, I guess it would be for a while.

The conservative party for the next election can't really stand on their record.

They can't win.

Surely they're not gonna win.

Well, I mean, and, and part of what we're seeing now is the divisive tone of they've gotta find something to stand on that isn't, we've fucked it up for 30 years.

Vote for us.

Yeah, exactly.

So how do you do that?

Vote for fear.

Vote, vote for fear.

Vote for us against them instead of voting for Look at what we've done.

Because you can't vote on that because like everything's tanked.

So it's more a case of.

Let's, let's stand against the invaders.

Yeah.

You know, it's very much that attitude and the line of, yes, we've fucked it up for 13 years, but if labor get in, they'll fuck it up even more worse.

Yeah.

If you look up any conservative mps on Twitter, they don't have the word conservative anywhere in their bios.

It's like, it's almost like it's become, it's like freaking toxic, but they just describe themselves as mps and there's no.

Reference to the fact that they're Tories.

I only share a shred of lighting that I end on.

Is, I think it's good that a non-white person may prime minister.

I mean, you know, no other European C'S done that I don't think, I'm not really aware of it, you know, and I, and the first minister of Scotland, I mean, India went bananas.

I work with loads of Indians and they just fucking, and, and I like saying, cuz they, you know, I'm like, I know, you know, I really feel now isn't that mad?

Like full circle.

We did all these shitty things and everything, but now you run our country.

You know, it's kinda like, yeah.

I mean, I, I see, I see what you're saying in terms of, The window dressing of it.

I think the same with Barack Obama.

I think politics is generally fucked and whoever stands at the head of the tree or who is the face you see as the leader of any particular political party generally.

Is already been bought and is in a position to sell somebody else's narrative.

So I was over the moon when Barack Obama got voted President of America, but not because I thought he was gonna do anything that was gonna affect my life in a better way, just because I thought.

Lots of little black girls and black boys will think I could be president.

And it's the same with Richard NeuN.

Yeah, I think he's a complete cunt.

But I understand the narrative and what the picture looks like and you gotta give thanks for that.

Business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark.

Straight talking financial and legal advice since 1935.

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What's the most misunderstood thing about being rep?

Uh, I think, I think most people think that.

No, not most people, people outside of the culture think that rap is all about sex and drugs and guns and women and gold chains and you know, name brand covid.

And I think that's such a small part of what the culture's actually about.

And actually it wasn't the culture that promoted that to the front.

It was.

The, the business and the industry that pushes that to the front.

Mm.

The culture has always been about so much more than that.

The culture of hiphop, which is what I'm part of.

I'm not, I'm not a rap music fan.

I'm part of the hiphop culture, and that teaches you about, you know, self-worth art, dance, creativity, and, you know, it's about so much more than just, Taking pictures in a, in pretty clothes and gold chains.

There's so much more than that.

That's such a tiny piece of what the hip hop culture is about, that rap music as it's being promoted today is pretty much about that, which is a shame because it has a lot more to offer and there's so many artists who are making incredible music that if you are not part of the culture, you'll never hear, you'll never hear that narrative.

There's so many people within hiphop culture who have nothing good to say about the way rap music is promoted and the, and the messages that rap music gives to our young people in terms of the negativity, the, the, the, the gun crime and the violence and the, the willingness to do anything for money.

That's not what really hiphop culture represents.

That's what commercial rap music represents.

And they're two completely different things.

Yeah.

I mean, and, and if you listen to the poetry, there's so much advice in there, you know, it is like, what's the, why do I like, you know, I love rap music.

I love soul music and you know, but what's, what, what do I get a hip hop?

I don't get out there.

Someone's got a fucking enough time to put in enough words.

They can tell me.

It's all sorts of shit.

You know?

It's like audio books on steroids.

What do you think the biggest problem facing in the music industry is?

The biggest problem for the artist or for the industry?

I think the industry has a problem with not being able to control the artist anymore.

Mm-hmm.

Like the, the industry used to have it all boxed off.

They were ab, they're absolute gatekeepers.

You are not getting in unless we say you can in terms of getting your record out, getting radio, getting your video played, any of that stuff.

All of that has been a race.

So the industry's struggling with finding new ways to attach themselves to what's going on, peak control, and they started with the free 60 record deals where we get peace of all of your earnings.

Mm-hmm.

Not just your record sales, you know, so that's the, the industry's problem for the artists.

Their problem now is, Being able to find and keep an audience, because as you said earlier, it's oversaturated.

It's so easy for someone to find a, get a piece of comp equipment.

You probably got a computer already.

I can make a record on, on my laptop.

Mm.

You know, it's, you know, a kid to make a record in their bedroom, have it online in the next hour, but there's 22 million people just did that in the same hour.

And so how do you find your audience and maintain your audience and, and, and especially enough to say, this is my career now.

And there's lots of people who have been able to do it.

A lot of it is, is luck going viral, is oftentimes luck.

Or, and I don't even know if I should say this, but a, a lot of the most successful underground music artists, I've come to the table who, who work with major labels and stuff, but they've come to the table with illicit earnings.

So they've made money in lots of other ways.

Yeah.

It's always been part of part of music.

Yeah.

And then they've put it into their career.

So I've been selling drugs for the last five years.

I now have 750,000 pound.

I'm gonna spend 250,000 mate just on the PR for me as an artist.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'll be able to navigate this new technology that we have.

And find this audience and keep them, you know?

And then when I have to talk to these major record labels, they're gonna have to talk to me proper.

Cause I'm already streaming a million streams a week.

My, my bank account is already doing well.

If you wanna talk to me, you're gonna have to talk to me.

Sounds remarkably like money laundering at this point.

Oh no, it's illegal.

It's, it's been the reality for as long as we can remember.

Like, but now, but now even more so because the record labels have lost controller of the industry and the way we said, These artists who do have this, this, this disposable money can now really use that for their own game.

Yes, man.

And, and they are a lot of the times to my mind, I'm definitely not condoning criminal behavior, but for a lot of these kids, It's a way out of that criminal behavior.

Yeah.

You know, and, and I, and I'm not one of these people who say, well, yeah, you know, Jewel's great.

Although they're talking about killing each other, it's a way for them to get out.

No, I don't believe that.

If you wanna get a way out, you, you get out.

If you know better, you do better.

So if you are struggling to get out, why are you then influencing the people behind you to get into what you are trying to get out of?

Yeah, I come from the era of La Kim Chaba and Public Enemy and k r s one when we used to wear African pendants and we felt really proud and we were, you know, up full and thinking about the future and what it could, could be.

First strong message that came outta hiphop first strong message.

And these were strong male messages for, so for someone like me who had no male parent in the house, these were really like important moments for me.

So I know how.

Influential, the messages in the music can be just in terms of affecting your mindset.

Like it was the music that sent me to the library to look up certain books and to study certain things.

So I also know that the power of the negativity in the music is just as strong.

And if you are feeding the kids negative messages and negative images and and diminishing their self worth every day, it has exactly the same effect.

And I think a lot of this music that's being released now does that.

He does that.

What's been your biggest fuck up?

Just a, as a, as a broad answer, I would say my biggest fuck up was expecting people to be like me and to think the way I f and to react the way I would react in certain situations.

So like, like I said earlier, I think one of my superpowers is being quite a straight talking person.

I don't really have an issue with making you feel uncomfortable if I feel like I'm telling the truth.

And, and I don't, I won't say it to you to make you feel uncomfortable, but if it's a byproduct, if it right, like if it needs saying it needs say, and you discovered that not everybody's light, a lot of people will, uh, will happily speak everything that needs to be said about you behind your back.

Mm-hmm.

That will never say it to your face.

And having the expectations that, well, I'm like this, so everybody must be like, this is a huge fuck up.

Don't put the way you think and feel on everybody else because everyone.

Thinks and moves and That's good point and reacts differently.

Yeah, it's a good, it takes a long time to really, because you can only imagine the world from your perspective.

Yeah, exactly.

Like trying to imagine this is, it sounds so egotistical, but trying to imagine the world when you are not there.

Yeah.

Your brain does that kind of like, yeah.

But oh, you know, there's, you are right.

I mean, I, cuz I will happily tell anybody, everybody anything about my life, I don't really care.

But it took me a long time to work out that some other people don't want people knowing their business.

Yeah, absolutely.

And get really upset if you'd like, tell people things about them.

What's the worst advice you've ever been given?

This is quite a personal one.

Go on.

I suffer from epilepsy.

Do you really?

Yeah.

The one of the worst bits of advice I was ever given was by a friend, and I was, I was in the midst of a really serious period in my life and my medication was off, and I was aware of the fact.

So it means that sometimes my sp, my speech is a bit slurred and this person said to me, It's time for you to quit.

You should just quit without knowing the backstory.

Without even asking the backstory.

And I was so offended.

Yeah, but I didn't bother to defend.

I'd didn't bother to say this.

I will actually.

It's just cause of this, that, or the other.

But that was the worst piece of advice I ever got.

And I would say that to anybody.

Don't let no one tell you to quit nothing.

Never.

Just quit them.

Yeah.

There's, there's, if you feel that you've come to the end of a particular journey and it's time for you to do something else, feel free to do that.

But don't let no one else decide for you that it's time for you to stop.

Yeah.

Never, never.

So that's very, very motivational again, isn't it again, a criticism thing in your life.

Absolutely.

Fuck you.

Aha.

You absolutely, absolutely.

It was, absolutely, it was.

And, and again, it was a, yeah, it was a real pivotal moment in my life.

Generally at that time, but that statement stuck with me forever.

Uh, what do you think's the, uh, best advice you've ever given?

Don't quit, done.

Slam dunk.

Don't quit.

What advice would you have given your younger selves?

Try not to be so reactionary sometimes.

Take a moment, breathe and have a little bit more.

Faith in the choices you make sometimes.

Sometimes back yourself more.

That's pretty much what I'm, I think about 90% of people we ask that question to say, yeah, I, and that's not surprising.

Cause in hindsight, a bit more faith in yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hindsight teaches you a lot then it's all, yeah.

Just back yourself a bit.

Yeah.

It's almost like, it feels like arrogance sometimes.

There's a funny line between arrogance and confidence.

And confidence is, you know, we've almost gotta pretend to have confidence initially.

Yeah.

It's a very strange game with yourself.

Yeah.

But yeah, you know, well, I think, I think in some, in some situations you have to be arrogant because people will try and, and, and pull you apart.

So there's confidence.

Okay.

There's confidence.

I'm not trying to be rude.

I'm not trying, I'm just firming who I am.

Sometimes you go into a room and people will try and remove that confidence from you.

And it's like, for me, I'll be like, fuck you Lord.

Now I'm gonna be arrogant.

None of you can tell me nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fuck the lot of you.

I'm the guy.

And that's, I'll be completely arrogant about it.

I'm the guy, so stop talking cause only my opinion caps America, that's it.

But Americas are quite good at doing that.

You know, tell you, we, you know, we, we definitely, you've just done it then.

And, and it is so, actually, it's a good way of saying it.

Yeah.

You, you've gotta be arrogant.

Be arrogant.

Sometimes you have to be like, I'm, I'm generally confident in who I am and what I have to offer.

And, and, and, and most times, not in 90% at the time, I'll stop there, but sometimes you have to push through that and say, just fuck the look.

I'm, I'm the fucking dude, Rodney, fucking Pete.

Get to not when you spill it, spill it.

Right.

Sometimes that has to be, that sounds, sounds petty when you say it.

I guess so.

No, I am, I am.

Oh, I'm deri.

I very important SL counsel.

I'm fucking Andy Juro in SL I am.

Very important tax advisor.

So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra and we'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday.