When it comes to marketing, advisors seem to only know what they can’t do. There are so many missed opportunities and it’s time to debunk the myths and inspire FAs on what they can do. Michael Morrison, Partner and CMO at Chief Outsiders, shares easy to implement tips to building an authentic brand.

Julie, today's podcast episode is all about marketing and branding. And I don't know about you, but seems to be like marketing and branding has changed, especially in our industry, over the course of my career. I mean, it used to be once upon a time, you and I were just joking about this. It was kind of like the lead advisor on the team was like the great and powerful Oz. And nobody gets to speak to the great powerful Oz unless you.

because we were the keepers of all the information and we were the ones that everybody looked up to and so on and so forth. But today's branding and marketing is really not about the story that we think, where we find value in ourselves. It's really about where clients will find value. Do you see that when you're consulting with teams?

It is an absolutely it is changed so rapidly and there are so many options, so many platforms, so many things to know. And frankly, it's become quite complicated quite quickly. And I think that's why for a lot of teams, it's a matter of building a plan and figuring out who does what, what platforms to use, what's within compliance parameters and really thinking about.

how do we proceed in a thoughtful manner with the amount of hours we have in a day? And let's face it, it becomes pretty complicated pretty quickly. So I think when we think about marketing and branding, it's much bigger than just a newsletter or a website. And so stepping back and really thinking about at the core what our clients are and what we want that message to be.

really becomes a very interesting exercise. And that's why I'm excited that we've had Michael Morrison with us to kind of unpack that process with us.

I think in our conversation with Michael, what I was reminded of is that, you know, the journey to find a financial professional, to work through all the various complex issues, it's not a whole lot different than any buying decision that we might make. In fact, Julie, I laughed just a couple of days ago, I called you because my wife and I are planning a vacation, right? Well, one of the first things we did was went online, checked everything out about it. But the second thing we did was,

let's think about anybody that might've ever been on a similar vacation because I'm going to call some, this is ever before we engaged any of the service providers or the spots that we're going to visit when we're there. We had already done our homework. And I think Michael in today's podcast really tells us why doing your homework on your clients is so important. And that's one of the things that really stuck with me. So why don't you share with our audience a little bit about Michael Morrison.

Absolutely. Michael is a senior marketing leader, business strategist, and growth accelerator with over 30 years of experience working with financial advisors in a broker dealer and RIA fiduciary organizations. An expert in brand development and digital marketing, Michael has helped advisory firms define their brands, understand their ideal clients, and operate effective client acquisition strategies.

So why don't you join us now and listen in on the conversation that Julie and I had with Michael Morrison about how to leverage your client relationships to define your brand and your value.

EPISODE

Michael, welcome to the Human Centric Investing Podcast. We are so excited to have you here with us today.

I'm so excited to be here, Julie and JD. Thank you.

You're welcome, Michael. And, and, you know, I was looking forward to this episode because today's topic is going to be in the area of marketing and branding. And I know Michael, that you say a lot of times when advisors or financial professionals think about marketing and branding, we immediately think about all the things that we can't do, right? that wouldn't be compliant. That's, I'd get in trouble for that. But you say that there are.

Mm -hmm.

a range of things that advisors can do, but oftentimes they overlook and so those opportunities are kind of sitting on the sideline. Tell us a little bit about your thoughts around that topic.

Yeah. And that's really key because so often the advisor is inclined to think that my brand is maybe some clever copy, some great photographs, some nice design.

And that I need to be able, I just need to tell people what it is I do. I'm really excited about what I do. I feel really confident about my abilities to serve my clients, to help them achieve their objectives. So if I tell them how great I am and I persuade them how great I am, then I'll succeed. But the truth is, and a colleague of mine who I worked with on a project not long ago, put it so succinctly, she said, the market doesn't care about you.

The market cares about what you can do for them. So that's the way we need to think about brand. Brand is not clever copy. It's not a great logo. It's not all the things you have to say about yourself and what you do. A brand is the place you want to occupy in people's imaginations and in their hearts. And the way you do that is to project yourself in a way that's really relevant for them.

And then of course, there are some intricacies associated with that.

Wow, that's really interesting, Michael. And I think, you know, oftentimes we have in our industry thought about, you know, telling our story. And I think obviously I would imagine at some point there's a component to that. Can we dig a little bit deeper into this? Because I'm sure there are a lot of financial professionals listening, thinking, okay, you've hooked me. I'm intrigued. I may have been going about this wrong and I want to do all of the things that I can do within my compliance parameters. Tell me more.

So could you dig a little bit deeper and educate us further?

Okay.

Yeah, you bet. So when I talk about how the inclination to want to tell your story seems to drive a lot of, and it's across the board. I mean, this is true of companies, the startup companies, mature companies, big, large, small. So it's not like any of us are, this is foreign to any of us, but what we find is that the opportunity to project your expertise,

will definitely come into the progression of communications with the market as opportunities advance. And I'll explain. We know that any buyer, anybody who's making a, who has a decision to make about their relationship with a financial advisor, they either, maybe they're working with their plan administrator, their employer sponsored plan administrator, and they're getting sort of perfunctory services and.

quarterly reporting and things like that. But they're finding that as their wealth accumulates or as they get nearer to retirement, they're not getting quite enough. So they start looking around, right? Heaven knows there are plenty of advisors out there, all of whom would love to have this business. And each of them clamoring to try to get the attention of this prospective new client, this investor. But that client at this stage of the game,

It's just beginning to think about, okay, I know I want to explore some alternatives, but I'm not sure what. So at that stage, that's early in the buyer's journey. So the buyer's journey advances through a series of sequences from awareness, I know I have a need, I think I'm gonna start thinking about looking to fulfill on that need, to consideration, to...

You know, I really, I'm getting more and more interested. I want to, I want to make a change in my life. And I think this is going to be important for me. And then decision. Okay. I've, I'm definitely going to make this change. These three or four advisors, these three or four companies have impressed me as having the capabilities and the will to provide me with the kinds of services I need. And that you've got to be able to speak to.

that investor in an appropriate way through that entire journey. Now, early on, I'm just looking around, right? And I'm not going to invest a whole bunch of time in reading page after page of copy about how great you are. But if you serve me up a really great little video that arrests my attention and peaks my curiosity, there you go. If you've got an infographic, if you've got, if you're sponsoring something, maybe if you're...

marketing in the local market, maybe you're sponsoring a nonprofit, maybe you're doing some cause -related marketing, right? You're helping promote the interests of the community in a way that also shines favorably on yourself and your practice. So it's a really broad way of thinking about, one, your market, the people you want to serve, and we'll get back to that in a little bit.

But secondly, how can I position myself in a way that makes me look like somebody they wanna know, somebody they wanna associate with, somebody who gets them?

So Michael, as we talk, you mentioned that brand is about who I project or what I want to project. Can you narrow that for me a little bit for financial professionals? As we think about our brand, are there certain questions that you would recommend I answer for myself before I begin to develop a brand around it?

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, the brand is a big part of my practice is conducting client interviews. I do probing interviews with clients, a wide variety of clients to get a really deep understanding about the quality of the relationship from their perspective. What do they value in the relationship? How did they make a decision to do business with this advisor or this firm? And what...

process did they go through to come to that decision? And whether they're a fairly new client or have been with the company for a long, long time, what do they really appreciate? What would they miss if it wasn't there? So once we have that understanding, we can provide intelligence to our client, the advisor or the business about, okay, here's what makes you special in the eyes and in the lives of the people you serve.

And we see that, you know, these particular clients get a lot of value out of this relationship and they can't imagine their life without you. And very often those are the clients that the advisor loves serving most. So that's a really important cue as to who your ideal client profile is. So that's your market, right? That's your sweet spot. And then to your question, JD, you get back to.

Okay, so we know they love this. So what can we do operationally, the way we run our business, the way we interact with our clients and with our prospects to make sure that we're really delivering on those things. So if clients say, I love how accessible you are. I love how approachable you are. Then, then make sure that your phones are answered promptly, that return calls are made quickly.

and you know, maybe that's not an issue, but you know, it's really, it really gets down into making sure that what you do aligns with what you say. So you've got to walk the walk because there's nothing, nothing that's going to damage your brand more than, than not walking your talk.

I guess a follow -up question to that is when you do that kind of discovery for the advisors and professionals you work with, do you often find when you come back to them with what their clients have said that it's a surprise to them, or is it usually pretty well aligned with what they thought they'd hear?

It's the former there. It's amazing. We always find nuggets in our conversations with clients. And this is one area where a lot of what we do can be done by anybody themselves. If they really think about themselves and think about the challenge and apply themselves to getting it done. But the client interviews really can't be done by, by yourselves.

because you're not going to get the kind of disclosure. Frankly, someone as practiced as myself or my colleagues, we're really good at probing to find those areas that really are important to people. And that's what we're looking for. And it's hard for that first party to do that because, you know, people filter, they don't want to hurt feelings, et cetera. And we also probe for bad news. We always want to know what could we do better? And sometimes we come back to our clients with some pretty tough

news, but for the most part, they're delighted to learn about the ways they delight their clients that they never even thought.

It's interesting, Michael. So once you've gathered this input and have these nuggets, if you will, and the financial professional is following through on doing what their clients say they want, what do you do with that information? So you have that, how do you begin to take those commonalities or those threads or those nuggets or fibers, if you will?

and start to cultivate that into something that really can kind of help shape the image of the practice and ultimately put that into words or an image or a vision or a picture, what does that process start to look like as you bring it to life, I guess, is maybe what I'm asking.

Yeah, so once you've once you've got a really thorough understanding of yourselves, obviously, you know, what are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? What are the opportunities in the marketplace? And what are the threats that that stand between us and those opportunities? And I'll just stop there for a second. So you've probably heard of that a SWOT analysis.

Strength, weakness, opportunities, threats. So when I think about strengths and weaknesses, that's internal. That's looking inside, like where are we strong? Where are we objectively strong? Where do we stand out? Where can we make a proper claim of differentiation? And weaknesses are, and be honest, be brutally honest with yourself and test this against the feedback you get from your clients. Again, it's introspective. You're looking at yourselves. Opportunities are what's outside of your practice.

outside of your business. So you're looking for opportunities and a lot of that has to do with your target market. So I talked a little bit earlier about how the people who get the most value out of their relationship with you are also probably the people you enjoy serving most, partly because you know they're getting so much out of the relationship. So once you know who that ideal client is, you've got that ideal client profile or persona,

And maybe there are multiple characters within that range. You can be more precise about targeting. And we'll get to that in a second because it's not at all uncommon for advisors or firms to want to be everything to everybody because assets are assets, right? You want to get assets. You want to get people in the door. But in truth, you're going to be much more effective marketing if you're speaking specifically to a segment of the market to whom you know.

you offer extraordinary value. That's where you're gonna get traction. That's where you're gonna drive growth. So once we know that, once we know who we're targeting, once we know more about how they make decisions, how they found us, we can be much more intelligent about the strategies that we deploy to reach those people, to get our name, our brand in front of those people in relevant ways.

So for example, if we serve entrepreneurs, right, these are presidents of companies, founders, and they might be in companies maybe between five and $10 million in revenue. And, you know, probably fairly high income, a lot of upside potential early in their entrepreneurial careers. But, you know, there are certain things we know that we can tell that audience. Certain, certain.

dimensions of value that we can deliver to them. Maybe it's help with organizational planning. Maybe it's, maybe it's they're growing so fast that they needed to add executives. Maybe you can offer some expertise there. Maybe it's some sort of compensation plan for your executive team so that their incentivize to stick around. So there are all these things you can think about and maybe it's a part of your practice now, but again, you can be much more precise, much more relevant as you reach out to the market.

So as we talked earlier, and this is all interconnected, through the buyer's journey, you've got awareness, consideration, and decision. And for awareness, you wanna be able to, I talked a little bit earlier about tactics, like videos. A real quick video, literally 12 second video that says something like, adding to your executive team.

Think about this and, and dot dot dot, right? And, and something as, as quick as that. And you boost it on social media, you get it out there. One, you, one, you've made sure you're active on social media because everybody's on social media today. and depending on what's going to happen with TikTok, even think about TikTok. And there are ways that you can, you can get that implemented. but I don't want to get too hung up on channels quite yet because I'm sure we'll get to that.

But what you want to do is be methodical. So here at Chief Outsiders, we have a methodology we call growth gears. So it begins with insights and the client research that I talked about is an important part of the insight gathering. The introspection, the strength, weakness, opportunity, threat analysis, and that's got to be brutal. That is part of the insights process. Then strategy. Then you think about, okay, how do we leverage our strengths?

to seize opportunities and how do we minimize our weaknesses and build upon our strengths to overcome threats and develop a strategy to reach into that marketplace. Then your tactics are much more focused. So they're much more efficient. So whether you're doing social media, whether you're doing a weekly or a monthly newsletter,

whether you're doing quarterly webinars and inviting subject matter experts to appear with you and inviting your clients to bring a guest to come to these webinars and or even events, you host live events in your local community. All of those things can be built around this brand and this unique, this special relationship that you've built with your existing clients and that you promise to prospective clients who are going to be attracted to it.

because they are going to be attracted to it because you've been that thoughtful about what you're saying and who you're saying it to.

Michael, how important in the analysis is it to take a look at your direct competition? Other teams, other advisors in town, obviously our business has grown a lot in terms of our reach because of now virtual communications and the like. But is it a situation where I really shouldn't care about what other people are doing because I'll know that our brand will be so special to stand out? Or how much work do you put into understanding what

competing firms may be doing.

Your competitors can teach you a lot about what to do and what not to do. Now, fortunately, in the financial services space, most companies aren't good at this at all. So it's very likely as you look at your competitors that they're not doing a very good job. So if you up your game, chances are very, very good that you're going to see some significant share gains. If...

by some chance there are some very capable branders, marketers in the space, then learn from them. If they seem to parallel yours, if they seem to overlap with your brand, then look for ways you can distinguish yourself from them. That's part of that introspection I was talking about a little bit earlier. You need to, part of a brand is what you stand for. So what can we stand for that elevates us over our, even our most capable competition?

So it's important to pay attention to your competition and keep an eye on them. Don't think that because you did it once, you've got it. They're moving too, right? You're being thoughtful about how you evolve your brand. They're doing the same thing. So keep an eye on them. Maybe it's the same three or four brands that you're really attuned into. And don't just think about your direct competitors. Think about adjacent competitors. There are a lot of ways for me to invest now, right?

And so the competition isn't maybe as accessible as you might first think.

It's interesting, Michael, you started to mention some of the actual content and the channels. And I think, you know, this is probably where financial professionals do start to get a little bit hung up, if you will, because there are a lot of different options and paths to go down. Could we maybe spend a little bit of time on what you've seen in terms of successes or successful models, if you will, thinking about videos?

newsletters, client events, virtual client events, all of the different options, timelines, weekly, monthly, quarterly, all of those different types of things, platforms. I mean, when we start to put it all out there, it feels overwhelming. I would imagine it all starts with a plan, right? Look at a calendar, think about a plan, have a strategy.

But could you start to help us understand what some of your best guidance is when it comes to how to put all of the pieces together?

You bet. And it can be daunting. You know, I've talked about a number of different tactics. I've talked about being active in social media, more sophisticated marketing operations among the financial advisories and broker dealers that we've worked with. They've got pretty robust editorial calendars. So they're thinking about their audience and the kind of content they want to publish in multiple channels over the course of a year. And they're plotting it all out.

They're thinking social media, they're thinking email campaigns, they're thinking video production, they're thinking their YouTube channel, the list goes on, right? And it can seem completely overwhelming, but it doesn't need to be. You can start slow, get a feel for it. Maybe it's just a monthly newsletter to your existing clients, but it's reframed. It's more, it's about them, and it's about ways you can make their lives richer.

And by doing that, you're enriching the relationship and you're getting them more excited about telling their friends and family and colleagues about you. So that can help enormously. Just reframing the relationship so it's less boastful and more curious, more humble. And like we have something to learn from you. We wanna help you live a bigger, better life. And this is how we wanna.

participate in that. So I would say that one, turning your existing clients into the most potent evangelists they can be for your practice or business by really thinking about how you message with your clients and experiment with a monthly newsletter. And if you're using, for example, if your firm provides you with a monthly newsletter, do you have an opportunity to add a preface?

or a comment of some kind, personalize it. Just because you've gotten it and compliance has signed off on it, don't just push it out and say, well, that's done for this month. Be thoughtful, right? And then if you find some information, you want to call out certain bits of information in the compliance approved content that you're being served up, then put a perspective in there. You understand your clients much better than your company does and compliance does.

So what about this information is particularly especially valuable to the people you care about. So never push anything out whether it's say it's a social media post again from corporate compliance approved. Don't just share it. Comment on it. You know call people's attention to it. Call them out. Be thoughtful about your outreach to the marketplace so you're bringing perspective. You're bringing value in every possible interaction.

Michael, how important is it to be realistic in terms of timeframes? I mean, what we're doing right now producing a podcast, podcasts seem to be things that are very interesting. People are like, this is great. We can do like one a week of this and we'll post multiple social media. And soon you find out, wow, there is that problem of the calendar. They didn't create more hours in the day. And I can't just throw anything out there. I want the content to be engaging. So how do you counsel clients that think about,

Do you pick just a couple of arrows in this quiver and say, let's try this and this on a monthly basis, and then if it's a hit, kind of try to publish more frequently? Or I imagine that you could get a lot of excitement about all these channels and almost have it implode, because it's almost too much to undertake at once.

Yeah, you definitely don't want to bite off more than you can chew. I'd say, you know, definitely the crawl, walk, run theory applies here. Just do that. Do what you can do with your existing resources. You've got to, if you've got administrative staff who can pitch in, you know, get them involved. it actually can be a lot of fun because it's the telling a story that people want to hear. And that's, that's fun for all of us. Right. So, so.

But do it in a way you can handle. And if you find that it works, that it's fun, that it actually makes your career more successful and more enjoyable, then already, I don't know how much assets you've gathered or how your income may have changed, but you already have won, right? So then once you start seeing a return on that investment, you can make more.

intelligent decisions about how to expand, how to move into new activities. And again, though, thinking about, okay, I want to make sure I'm getting a return on this and taking those small steps incrementally along the way until one day you might have a very, very robust and outreach strategy.

Michael, it's interesting. Oftentimes the lead financial professional on the team isn't the person that maybe is as savvy with technology or is as interested in social media as maybe another member of the team that maybe is less seasoned in life. And so oftentimes when I'm coaching teams, I say, you know,

think about whose role and responsibility this can be. Is there someone that has a passion for this? And maybe that can be part of their formal roles and responsibilities. You know, it might be draining to the lead advisor to think about this and to go through this, but to that other person on the team, this might actually be a really invigorating, exciting activity and they might be really fueled by it. And it might be something that actually elevates them in their role.

Mm.

you know, is really wind in their sails. And so just, I think, thinking about what human power you have on your team and maybe aligning these activities with the right person, the right skillset, and not necessarily feeling like you as the lead advisor have to take the reins. Is that something that you see on the teams that you work with as well, where finding the right person to engage is really kind of part of the key to success?

Yeah. man. Yeah, that is absolutely right. Yes. In fact, I'm thinking of a, of a particular person. this practice has, has a role, where, and it's a firm, it's a, an RIA firm in the Midwest and they actually have a role client success specialist. And this person is really good at it and she's really fired up about it. And, and.

the principle in the business is crazy busy and you know got a million things to do but great insights, great perspective. So she knows how to leverage the value he brings to really amplify and magnify it and it works beautifully. Yeah, that's great advice too.

Michael, it seems like we're in a world of practice acquisition right now and practice change as like many industries, we're hitting certain demographic changes in our industry. But also this topic of consolidation. I know sometimes when Julie and I are asked to come out and participate with teams, it's because there's been a merger, because there's been... How important do you think it is to review brand? Now, some...

All right. All right.

teams may choose to change the name of the practice. But would you recommend taking a look at a brand at any time that happens?

Mm -hmm.

Absolutely, absolutely, because brand is a manifestation of culture. And so when you're merging two organizations, and I've seen this so many times, through the due diligence process, there's been too little emphasis on the cultures, the disparate cultures. Sometimes, or they give lip service to it. Sometimes they feel like, yeah, we're kind of the same.

But when you actually try to assimilate the acquired into the existing organization, there's all kinds of friction. And that needs to be avoided or overcome, right? And maybe that's a pain you're willing to endure because the payoff is gonna be so significant. But if that's, regardless, you need to set, hopefully your brand is solid enough and it contains a vision.

for yourselves as a company, for the lives your clients are entitled to live and the role you're gonna play in helping them achieve that. So that you've got a North Star you can give the acquired company so that the pain associated with merging is less distracting. If everybody's focused on that North Star, that can help smooth that process. But brand is really important. And be thinking about how,

Brand has something called equity. So what that means is pretty self -explanatory. What kind of weight, how meaningful is this brand to the people who are aware of it, right? And when we think of brands, we think of Disney, we think of Apple, we think of McDonald's and what they mean to us. But every financial service practice has a brand. The question is,

Is it one that they've developed? Is it one that they're crafting? Is it one that they're burnishing? Or is it just accidental? You want to be intentional about your brand. So when you integrate another company or when you're integrating even just individual advisor practices, give them a brand asset that they can be proud of. So we all know that the relationship between the investor and the

advisement firm is where the brand lives, right? But I think, and I'd love to hear from advisors if they disagree, but that they have a lot to gain from being associated with a larger brand that stands for something, that represents something bigger, something more attractive than just somebody I know who...

I call for when I need to change my allocations. So yeah, I think that Mergers and Acquisitions brand is a key consideration.

Michael, I'm curious, how damaging is it in your opinion to have, say, a website that is very stale or out of date? You know, I know oftentimes before I go to have a coaching call or a meeting with a team, I'll check out their website. And oftentimes I'll find that maybe there's a picture of a team that has team members in it that are no longer with the team or...

Mm -hmm.

you know, somebody that's long retired is still in the photo or still listed on the site or new team members aren't listed. I mean, it just feels like the site hasn't been touched in ages. What does that do to a brand in your opinion when the site really isn't reflective of what the team in its current state is like?

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, that is such a good question, Julie. Think, you know, think about your own lives. What purchase decision? And I don't mean just big purchase decisions. So you're going to buy a new blow dryer. I don't need one. You do. The, yeah, yeah. So you're going to look online, right?

Yes, I do.

Absolutely.

You can look online, you're gonna see who's got the best reviews, then you're gonna look online, you're gonna see which retailers are nearby so you don't have to wait for it and go pick it up. You're gonna see who has the best price for it. So you're gonna go online, right? Yeah, yes, exactly. So y 'all, if your website isn't a reflection of your practice today, and I mean today, then it's hurting your practice. It's hurting your business.

I'm gonna find a coupon.

So you wanna make sure that your website is current, that it reflects all of your best thinking, that it reflects your brand's character as fully and as truthfully as it possibly can. That's key, it's your most important, most valuable marketing asset.

What are your thoughts on keeping the website dynamic, maybe changing the photos? I know some teams will even rotate their team photo. They will have taken a whole bunch of photos in different settings, right? It's the same team, but they'll have one in front of a brick building and one in front of some trees and one in front of a river. And they'll rotate that. And then they'll rotate articles. So they want when, even if it's their existing clients,

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

coming to the website, say to access the online account access, they just always want their website to feel fresh, feel different. Maybe it's some new articles of the day. What are your thoughts on just keeping the site fresh, even if nothing has changed with the team structure?

Yeah, that's a best practice. Now I don't think you necessarily need to have a huge bank of photographs to replace existing photographs with, but publish regularly. You know, and if again, if you're not comfortable writing blogs, and I want to touch on compliance here in a second, if you're not comfortable writing blogs, but if you're being provided with content, or maybe you subscribe to FMG Suite or something like that and you're getting content, again,

Okay.

personalize it, add a preface, add something to bring added dimension of value, something that you know is relevant to your market. Add value, always be thinking about ways you can add value. And then promote it. So if you communicate with your existing clients and you communicate perhaps with prospective clients through emails, let them know that you've just published a new blog and why they should read it or maybe even think about sharing it.

and maybe you've got a little video associated with that. So yeah, I think content, and that does another thing too, Julie, is that helps bolster your search performance. So the more content you add, particularly for thinking about, okay, what are people thinking about? What are they searching for? That will improve the searchability of your site.

Michael, if Julie and I were designing a website about Michael Morrison, there's a bunch of questions that we would have for you to answer. So maybe now, instead of you doing the interviewing of clients, Julie and I can interview you for a few seconds on questions that help our audience know Michael a little bit deeper in terms of who you are and kind of what you think. So if you're OK, we'll rapid fire some questions at you. And we're looking for initial first top of mind responses.

Okay, sounds good.

Julie, you want to start?

Perfect, I would love to. Okay, Michael, on a scale of one to 10, how good of a driver are you?

8.

Very good. How about, I know you've got a lot of things going on. Do you prefer a paper to -do list or to use a digital to -do list?

I confess paper.

It's alright, nothing wrong with that, Julie's a big fan.

I am. I love crossing everything off. It feels so good. Love it. What's your favorite holiday?

I got my notepad right here.

There you go.

Christmas.

What's your favorite city in the United States?

New Orleans

What's the best age?

My age.

That's a good one. We've had people say now, but nobody's ever answered my age. I don't think that. I like that.

Yep.

Yep. They haven't. I love that.

Michael, what was your favorite board game to play as a kid?

I hate board games. Man, it's like, don't you have anything better to do?

Me too! How about any game to play as you were a kid?

I guess I liked Trivial Pursuit.

Okay.

which is a bit of a board game.

Yeah, I count.

What's the ideal outside temperature?

It seems to be changing. It used to be upper 60s, now it's probably upper 70s.

How about, let's see, are you a morning person or a night owl?

Definitely a morning prison.

Do you prefer to online shop or go into a good old fashioned store?

You know, practicality has sort of forced me online for a lot of my purchases, but I still love to go into a store. And in fact, I try to force myself to do that more often because I want them to be there. I like the experience.

Pepsi or Coke? Amen, right there with you.

Coke.

Let's see, if you could travel the world for free, where would you go first?

Back to Italy.

Any particular part of Italy you prefer?

Tuscany, Siena in particular. What a beautiful town.

Nice. Just taking tips here. How about, let's see, do you know what's for dinner tonight?

Okay.

Yes.

What will it be? Nice. Awesome.

Chicken stew with sourdough bread, yep.

Nice. Would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

future.

My last question, Michael, would you rather read a book or listen to Audible?

Read a book.

And my last question is, what's the first concert that you ever went to?

this is gonna date me. Emerson, Lake and Palmer.

Yeah, little ELP. Nice.

Yeah.

Well, Michael, we can't thank you enough for joining us here today on the Human Centric Investing podcast. And Michael is a proud member of Chief Outsiders, America's oldest, largest, and most experienced roster of chief marketing and chief sales officers. With more than 120 seasoned professionals from every vertical, Chief Outsiders has helped companies from 5 million to more than 1 billion design, build, and operate marketing plans that perform.

To book an individualized consultation with Michael, contact him directly at mmorrison at chiefoutsiders .com. Michael, thank you again for helping educate us today on all things marketing and branding.

It's been absolutely my pleasure. Best of luck to you and to your audience. Go get them.

Great work, guys. I am going to keep this recording for just a second. John, would you be able to ask Michael the first question that we started off with? There was a computer ding that went off during the recording. I had a clean version of that. All right, no worries. I'm going to mute myself. And then whenever you guys are ready, just get away. And then we can merge those answers together if we need to. But just so that way, there's a clean version. Thanks, guys.

Michael, I've been looking forward to this episode. Today's episode is all about marketing and branding. And sometimes when it comes to marketing and branding, I know you've told me that oftentimes advisors or professionals start with all of the things that they can't do, that they don't think they're permitted to do. You say that there are a range of things that they can do, maybe should be doing, and that they're leaving opportunities on the table. Can you share a little bit?

with us about what you mean by that.

Yeah, yeah. And thank you. That's a great question. The inclination is to want to tell your story. You want to explain how great my practice is or how great my firm is and all the things we can do and why that should be important to you, although it should be obvious. So, and then you're going to come rushing to do business with me. And then you wonder why the phone doesn't ring or people don't walk through the door.

The truth is that, and a big part of that mentality is centered around investment performance. And of course we know compliance is never gonna let you talk about investment performance. You can't be promissory in any way. Past performance does not indicate future results, right? So don't stay away from that stuff. We know research proves that when people leave their advisors, it's not because of investment performance.

It's because the quality of the relationship just hasn't been there. There's something in that relationship that's not measuring up to expectations. So when you divorce yourself from that, when you really devote yourself to understanding who your market is, where people get value, and when you connect with them on their terms in ways that they care about, then you get through to them, right?

So it's less me focused and more you focused. It's less, here's how great we are and more, here's the lives, here's the role we wanna play in making your best life.

That makes sense.