Shownotes
“More than half the population of practically every country is female, and therefore, it is a waste of a resource not to have women involved in active ways to make life better in their own countries.” The Honorable Dr. Madeleine Albright, the 64th US Secretary of State.
Key Links
- IFES’s Rural Women in Tunisia (Video)
- "Not Before 18” & The 30% Gender Quota in Libya
- Full interview with the Honorable Dr. Madeleine Albright (Video)
----
On this episode of Democracy! The Podcast, we take an in-depth look at what happens when women win.
First, tag along to Tunisia for the scoop on a group of rural women who had overlooked their right to vote for years. Follow their story as they grow from apathetic to empowered citizens helping to steer the future of their country at the ballot box.
In Peru, we’ll take a sobering look at terrifying violence intended to derail a woman’s shot at running for office.
Then we’ll sit down with the 64th US Secretary of State and Chair of the Albright Stonebridge Group, the Honorable Dr. Madeleine Albright, as she speaks out on some of the most urgent issues facing women around the world today, and shares some of her best behind the scene stories as the US’s first top woman diplomat.
Democracy! The Podcast is brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening (CEPPS) with support from the United States Agency for International Development through the Global Elections and Political Transitions Award.
----
Follow CEPPS on Twitter.
Democracy! The Podcast is hosted by CEPPS and Adrienne Ross.
This podcast has been produced by the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening through the Global Elections and Political Transitions award and is made possible by the generous support of the American people through the United States Agency for International Development.
Opinions expressed here are those of the host and the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the US Government. This show is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Hi, and welcome to Democracy!
Speaker:The Podcast that shines light on some of the darkest challenges facing the
Speaker:fight for democracy around the globe,
Speaker:"Democracy will and must prevail."
Speaker:[President Biden]
Speaker:This podcast is brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and
Speaker:Political Process strengthening direct from Washington, DC, with support
Speaker:from our friends at the United States Agency for International Development
Speaker:through the Global Elections and Political Transitions Award.
Speaker:I'm your host, Adrienne Ross.
Speaker:The first woman to serve as the United States Secretary of State
Speaker:and founder of the influential Albright Stonebridge Group, Dr.
Speaker:Madeline Albright, joins us today to talk about why it matters when
Speaker:women win, what it's been like for her to have a seat at the table.
Speaker:We'll also talk with her about a dire threat facing women in public
Speaker:life - targeted violence, and we'll get an update on it from Peru.
Speaker:But first, before we sit down with the secretary, we've got an in-depth
Speaker:look at Tunisia's long tradition of being a leader in women's
Speaker:participation and representation.
Speaker:Communications Officer Amy Radlinski gets us started.
Speaker:The Republic of Tunisia has long been one of the world's more
Speaker:promising spots for democracy.
Speaker:The northernmost country in Africa is home to the Tunisian National Dialogue Quartet,
Speaker:the 2015 Nobel Peace Prize winner that created a constitutional system when the
Speaker:country was on the brink of a civil war.
Speaker:And women first earned the right to vote here in 1957.
Speaker:But some parts of the democracy have been slower to deliver, and many
Speaker:Tunisians today say they are frustrated by corruption, mismanagement of the
Speaker:COVID-19 response, and a weak economy.
Speaker:Recently, anger boiled over into violent street protests.
Speaker:President Saied dismissed the parliament and the nation's
Speaker:prime minister, and turned COVID response over to the military.
Speaker:But as Tunisia struggles to find its democratic footing today, we applaud
Speaker:the republic for its long history of success pursuing equal representation.
Speaker:In fact, Tunisian women led the way in 2018 by winning 47% of representation
Speaker:in municipal assembly seats.
Speaker:Nicolas Kaczorowski and Rebeb Zaatour join us now to talk more about the
Speaker:role women play in Tunisia's politics.
Speaker:As the International Foundation for Electoral Systems Country Director
Speaker:for Tunisia, Nicolas has supported a lot of elections, including the
Speaker:2018 municipal election, the first since the Arab Spring in 2011.
Speaker:Nicolas, who calls Lyon home, has also worked on democracy issues for the UN
Speaker:in East Timor, and led the Election Department in Europe's Office for
Speaker:Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.
Speaker:His colleague, Rebeb Zaartour, is the Project Officer for IFES.
Speaker:She has grown up in Tunisia, and today works with women who live in rural areas
Speaker:to help them understand their rights and responsibilities towards elections.
Speaker:They join us from Tunis.
Speaker:Nicolas, we would be remiss to talk about women's roles and rights and
Speaker:Tunisia without first talking about the current political turmoil.
Speaker:What have you witnessed on the ground?
Speaker:Thanks, Adrienne.
Speaker:What I would say is that I have witnessed mixed feelings about
Speaker:what happened on 25th of July.
Speaker:On the one hand, a sense of happiness, relief, but also a sense of liberation.
Speaker:You've seen celebrations on the streets on the 25th of July that clearly shows a
Speaker:popular support to the president's move.
Speaker:Tunisia has felt that democracy has not delivered on all of
Speaker:its promises towards citizens.
Speaker:Promises from the 2011 revolution have not been fulfilled.
Speaker:So parliament suffers also from a great distrust from the people.
Speaker:Politicians seem to care, at least that's the perception, that they care
Speaker:more about their own interests and power than about citizens' needs.
Speaker:Finally, I think that citizens felt that someone heard them, heard their suffering,
Speaker:and that was the president by taking the actions he took on the 25th of July.
Speaker:On the other hand, there's a sense of concern, I think, and worry
Speaker:in some part of the population.
Speaker:So the society has called for vigilance about what happened, and,
Speaker:in a way, these events have thrown a certain level of constitutional,
Speaker:legal, and political uncertainty.
Speaker:So currently, parliament is suspended.
Speaker:There's no prime minister.
Speaker:There is no clear plan being announced on how to address the
Speaker:top concerns of the population.
Speaker:One being on top of it, COVID, but also unemployment, youth
Speaker:opportunities, and also academic reform.
Speaker:The election of women to office has really been impressive to watch in Tunisia, over
Speaker:the last couple of years in particular.
Speaker:What do you attribute their success to?
Speaker:I would say in our board, but also far beyond.
Speaker:Tunisia has been seen as a leading country when it comes to women's
Speaker:participation and representation.
Speaker:I see several converging factors that could explain a two thirds
Speaker:impressive record by no means exhaustive, but I'll give you three.
Speaker:First, there is a tradition of women activism since the 19, 20th century
Speaker:in Tunisia, that was coordinated with the adoption of the Code of
Speaker:Personal Staus in 1956, right at the independence of the country.
Speaker:This is a landmark in gender equality.
Speaker:It provides a set of progressive laws that protect women's rights.
Speaker:Certainly a first, and only, in the Arab world.
Speaker:The second is that Tunisia has bred well-known and
Speaker:influential women's organization.
Speaker:They know they've been fighting for decades for women's rights
Speaker:and greater gender parity.
Speaker:And finally, I would say that there is a conducive constitutional and
Speaker:legal architecture that has created the foundation, the legal foundation,
Speaker:for supporting women's rights.
Speaker:And recall that the constitution posits equality between women and men.
Speaker:I like to quote Article 46 of the Constitution that
Speaker:mandates equal representation of women in elected assemblies.
Speaker:While this is aspirational, we haven't reached that goal yet,
Speaker:it's a bold and ambitious objective that I think should be commended.
Speaker:It is very impressive.
Speaker:But I have to ask, for all of the turnout that you've seen women
Speaker:running for office, there still is quite a disparity in voter turnout of
Speaker:women versus men at the ballot box.
Speaker:Is that right, Rebeb?
Speaker:Yes, that's absolutely correct.
Speaker:So the turnout of rural women in elections is low in comparison to men.
Speaker:This was due to many factors.
Speaker:I remember that in 2015, and based on the results of the 2014 national
Speaker:elections in Tunisia, a Tunisian CSO conducted a survey with 5,200 rural
Speaker:women from five different governorates.
Speaker:The survey aimed to understand the causes of this low turnout, as well as to know
Speaker:what are the obstacles that prevent rural woman from voting and from registering.
Speaker:So most of the responses were because of the high illiteracy
Speaker:rate in the remote and rural areas.
Speaker:We noticed that many rural women explained that they cannot exercise
Speaker:their rights as voters because they face challenges when they read the
Speaker:candidate's electoral programs.
Speaker:Also, they have a lack of knowledge about elections.
Speaker:In addition, rural women, in general, have a lack of financial
Speaker:means to go to register or to vote.
Speaker:In some rural areas, men represent a hurdle for women to go and vote.
Speaker:They did not allow their wives, their mothers, or any female relatives
Speaker:to cast their ballots in elections since, from their perspective,
Speaker:elections are only for men.
Speaker:Well, and that, as you know, is not something that's unique to Tunisia.
Speaker:We've seen similar trends in other countries.
Speaker:But your team recognized that something really needed to be done
Speaker:to help get these women to the polls.
Speaker:What did your team do?
Speaker:So we started by recruiting 300 women ambassadors, we call them women
Speaker:ambassadors, on elections, and we trained them on the elections, on
Speaker:decentralization, local governance, and communication techniques.
Speaker:Their role was to go to the field and convince rural women who are living in
Speaker:remote areas to go and register, and to vote in both elections, the 2018 elections
Speaker:and the 2019 municipal elections.
Speaker:The objective was to make the voice of women heard by the local authorities
Speaker:and give them the power to discuss the main challenges faced by the rural
Speaker:women towards their municipality, such as the infrastructure, the electricity,
Speaker:the water, the pollution, et cetera.
Speaker:So IFES, during these campaigns, selected twelve governorates, which had the highest
Speaker:percentage of illiteracy, according to the Tunisian Institute of Statistics.
Speaker:The illiteracy rate is currently standing at 19.1% of the overall population.
Speaker:I understand you had quite a bit of work cut out for you in asking
Speaker:these women to come to the ballot and actually come out to vote.
Speaker:Can you tell us some of the stories, and what you had to do to
Speaker:convince these ladies that their vote counted and it mattered?
Speaker:Yeah, of course.
Speaker:I remember one rural woman from Beja, a governorate in Tunisia.
Speaker:She was called Nasia.
Speaker:Nasia said that, "We had the wrong idea about elections because of the
Speaker:political parties who were using our lack of knowledge for their interests.
Speaker:But thanks to the efforts made by the women ambassadors, we increased our
Speaker:knowledge about electoral concepts, and we are convinced about the
Speaker:importance of our participation.
Speaker:And we will not let anyone to manipulate us."
Speaker:There is also another woman from Tataouine called Salma.
Speaker:She said that, "Before the ambassadors showed up at my door, I decided not to
Speaker:vote anymore because we have no jobs, no water, and I thought that every time we
Speaker:voted there weren't any tangible results.
Speaker:It's only after ambassadors visited that I started to reconsider voting.
Speaker:She convinced me that I should make my voice heard, and now I will teach
Speaker:my children how to vote so that they can have a better future."
Speaker:It's really transformative, isn't it?
Speaker:It's quite a cultural shift.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I found it very important that during our campaigns many women
Speaker:ambassadors faced multiple challenges in getting men's permission to
Speaker:talk to their female siblings.
Speaker:In fact, rural women in general need to take the permission from
Speaker:their husbands to go and vote.
Speaker:And this made the conversation between the ambassadors and
Speaker:the rural women very difficult.
Speaker:Some men in some rural areas refuse to allow their wives
Speaker:to participate in elections.
Speaker:We've seen many women run for office, and now we've heard Rebeb's story about
Speaker:trying to be more inclusive in society.
Speaker:What do you think the future holds?
Speaker:I think that the main challenge to address now for Tunisia is not so
Speaker:much participation, although there is progress to be made, but it's
Speaker:more on women's representation.
Speaker:Overall Tunisia fares relatively well when you look at the world.
Speaker:You know, Tunisia ranked about 73rd, U.S.
Speaker:is 67th.
Speaker:So, in terms of the number of women in parliament they're doing quite well.
Speaker:However, the share of women in parliament, you know, from 2014, 2019.
Speaker:So in 2014, there was about 31% of women represented in parliament.
Speaker:It went down to a quarter with only fifty-four women MPs elected in 2019.
Speaker:So the trend is not so positive there.
Speaker:But currently, there are some rumors going around the country that the president
Speaker:may actually appoint the first woman prime minister in the history of Tunisia.
Speaker:And I even heard, those are rumors, we'll see when the announcement
Speaker:is made, that there could be a government made of only women.
Speaker:I mean, that would be certainly a first.
Speaker:That would be an extraordinary announcement to hear.
Speaker:Do you think we'll ever see a woman elected president in Tunisia?
Speaker:You know, this is a really tough question.
Speaker:And, of course, it's up to them to decide.
Speaker:We ran a poll not too long ago, and Tunisians, when they asked, the voters
Speaker:expressed their readiness to vote for women if she's considered equally
Speaker:qualified as the male candidates.
Speaker:So it shows some readiness t o vote for a woman.
Speaker:During the last presidential election, so back in 2019, only two
Speaker:candidates were actually women out of twenty-six presidential candidates.
Speaker:So it shows that political arena remains a men's affair in a way.
Speaker:Yes, of course, we are waiting here for a Tunisian woman president.
Speaker:We'll keep our fingers crossed and we'll certainly keep watching.
Speaker:Tunisia has a leading role in women's rights and I hope that
Speaker:we'll continue to carry this weight and carry this leadership forward.
Speaker:Switching gears now, we're going to talk about a very grave concern
Speaker:facing women in public life.
Speaker:It's often hidden and difficult to prosecute, but make no mistake,
Speaker:violence is happening to women in politics all over the globe.
Speaker:We're joined by Missy Reif from the Latin America team to
Speaker:better describe the problem.
Speaker:Missy, political violence can be experienced by anyone.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:From first-time voters to seasoned heads of state.
Speaker:Do we have any idea how many women a year this kind of violence affects?
Speaker:Honestly, that's a tough question because political violence can
Speaker:take many shapes and forms.
Speaker:Violence around the world, not just in Latin America, can be
Speaker:directed at people of all genders.
Speaker:However, the specific issue of violence against women in politics
Speaker:has three distinct characteristics.
Speaker:First, it targets women because of their gender.
Speaker:Second, the form of violence itself can be gendered, as exemplified by
Speaker:sexist threats or sexual violence.
Speaker:And third, its impact is specifically to discourage women from being
Speaker:or becoming politically active.
Speaker:It encompasses all different forms like aggression, harassment, coercion, and
Speaker:intimidation against women as political actors, simply because they are women.
Speaker:It's really frightening, and we also know it's really effective in some countries.
Speaker:Can you share some examples of attacks you witnessed in Peru?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So with USAID funding, CEPPS partners supported the Jurado Nacional de
Speaker:Elecciones, or the National Elections Jury, to develop some tools to
Speaker:track instances of violence against women in politics, and analyze
Speaker:this information to see what can be improved in future electoral processes.
Speaker:In Peru, the Equality Office of the Jurado noted that 52% of women
Speaker:candidates in the most recent congressional election reported
Speaker:experiencing some type of violence.
Speaker:Specifically, one report included someone sharing a candidate's phone
Speaker:number and address in order to threaten her, and encouraging others to dox her.
Speaker:Other examples included sexist comments, defamation of character.
Speaker:So again, I think it's important to remember that while bodily harm
Speaker:or sexual violence may be the most obvious instances of violence against
Speaker:women in politics, it can really take any form beyond just physical harm.
Speaker:Well, Missy, thank you so much for all your work on this.
Speaker:We'll continue to keep track of your findings and keep an eye on the region.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:For a close-up look at this global issue, we are joined now by a woman who has
Speaker:not only cracked the glass ceiling, but skyrocketed well into our stratosphere.
Speaker:A professor, author, diplomat, and businesswoman, Madeleine Albright
Speaker:became the first woman to serve as the 64th Secretary of State under
Speaker:President Bill Clinton in 1997.
Speaker:That appointment made her the highest-ranking woman
Speaker:in the history of the U.S.
Speaker:Government at that time.
Speaker:Today, she is the founder of the influential Albright Stonebridge
Speaker:Group, a distinguished professor at Georgetown University, a seven-time
Speaker:New York Times Bestselling Author, and she chairs the board of the National
Speaker:Democratic Institute, one of the consortium's three principle partners.
Speaker:Among her extraordinary accomplishments, Secretary Albright
Speaker:has never stopped championing the endless challenges women face.
Speaker:She is here now to tell us why it matters when women win.
Speaker:Madam Secretary, Dr.
Speaker:Albright, thank you so much for making time for us today.
Speaker:I'd like to start today by talking about a terrible subject, but we
Speaker:see truly horrifying stories of women suffering violent retaliation
Speaker:for participating in public life.
Speaker:For the past several years now, you've been deeply committed in
Speaker:calling attention to this issue.
Speaker:Why is this focus so important for you?
Speaker:Well, this is a focus that I've had for quite a long time.
Speaker:When I was in office, I was concerned about trafficking in women and
Speaker:various issues that were coming up.
Speaker:And then, when I was also in office, I went to a refugee camp near the
Speaker:Khyber Pass, and it was filled with women who had escaped Afghanistan,
Speaker:and they were telling stories about what had happened to their families,
Speaker:the violence against the families.
Speaker:And they were telling stories about how their sisters or mothers had
Speaker:been beaten up, or stories about how one of their relatives jumped out a
Speaker:window in order to avoid being raped.
Speaker:So I was with them and they were very much on my mind throughout the time that
Speaker:I was in office and certainly since.
Speaker:And I knelt down to be very close to them, and reached out to shake hands, and
Speaker:then I said, "I will never let you down."
Speaker:So it has really been on my mind constantly.
Speaker:And especially given the kinds of things that we have seen recently going on.
Speaker:I do think that women have suffered a great deal.
Speaker:They suffered various times that the Taliban were in power.
Speaker:And they are now again, potentially the victims of major violence, which
Speaker:is why I think it's very important for those of us that have a voice to speak
Speaker:out against what's going on and making sure that this is not what happens.
Speaker:And then trying to help those women that had pasts where they have really
Speaker:been very vocal and are probably now under greater threat to make
Speaker:sure that we can help get them out.
Speaker:And I am really, very encouraged by the fact that the women members of Congress
Speaker:are very dedicated to having this be a key issue for things that they talk about.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:That leads us to our next question that I wanted to ask you about the
Speaker:importance of women in democracy.
Speaker:You have often been quoted as saying, "Success without democracy is improbable.
Speaker:Democracy without women is impossible."
Speaker:How does that quote apply to Afghanistan, and the United
Speaker:States, and everywhere abroad?
Speaker:I think that the thing that is important first, even if I weren't a feminist, more
Speaker:than half the population of practically every country is female, and, therefore,
Speaker:it is a waste of a resource not to have women involved in active ways to
Speaker:make life better in their own country.
Speaker:I do think that what we are seeing across the world is that women really do and
Speaker:can and must play a very important role.
Speaker:Democracy is for all the people.
Speaker:And I do think that it is essential to have women run for office.
Speaker:Violence against women should not be the cost of that because a lot of women then
Speaker:that do have positions in government are then, in fact, picked out by people
Speaker:who oppose it, and they are threatened.
Speaker:They personally are threatened and their families are threatened.
Speaker:So it is a matter of not only making sure that they run for office, but
Speaker:that they also are respected and don't have to worry about what happens to
Speaker:their families if they speak out.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:We've seen that as a great deterrent, unfortunately, in many locations.
Speaker:Sometimes women's roles are trivialized, though.
Speaker:For instance, I'm rereading your Madam Secretary book, and you talk
Speaker:about your early volunteer work.
Speaker:But sometimes don't we find that, men in particular will say, "Oh,
Speaker:that's so nice, a woman's in charge."
Speaker:Why is it really important that women have an integral role in
Speaker:places like the Situation Room or lead on diplomatic negotiations?
Speaker:I really do think it's very important to have a woman's voice in the room, and,
Speaker:actually, more than one woman's voice.
Speaker:Because part of the problem if you are the only woman in the room, and I must
Speaker:say that I fell subject to this myself, is I would want to say something, and then
Speaker:I'd think, "Well, that'll sound stupid."
Speaker:And then some man says it and everybody thinks it's brilliant.
Speaker:And you're mad at yourself for not saying something.
Speaker:And the men would support each other.
Speaker:You know, John would be speaking and he'd say, "Well, as Joe thought..."
Speaker:Or, "You know, Bob thought..."
Speaker:So I think it's important to have more than one woman in the
Speaker:room so we can really speak to each other, for each other, with
Speaker:each other, and really be there.
Speaker:But I do think that having women's views and women's voices in a room is absolutely
Speaker:essential for good decision-making.
Speaker:Do you think that having women in the room changed the outcome in some way?
Speaker:Well, I do think, these are generalizations, but I do think that men
Speaker:and women think somewhat differently.
Speaker:I do think because women have to multitask just to exist that women
Speaker:have more peripheral vision in terms of seeing the consequences of issues
Speaker:and understanding peripherally.
Speaker:Men, I do believe, and again, this is a generalization, may think longer about
Speaker:one subject, and, therefore, having the combination I think is very important.
Speaker:I do think women are better at putting themselves into the other person's
Speaker:shoes, which is something that is absolutely essential for diplomacy.
Speaker:Understanding what the other people are thinking, and then caring.
Speaker:I do think that is something that has made a big difference.
Speaker:Initially, I have to tell you, as the virus was spreading, the countries
Speaker:that were doing the best were those run by women - Taiwan, New Zealand,
Speaker:Norway, Sweden, a number of countries that really did have active women.
Speaker:Do you think that we have enough women on the international scene right now?
Speaker:Well, no, I don't think we have enough women.
Speaker:But I think the women that we have seen and had - I'm very sorry that Angela
Speaker:Merkel's time is over in Germany.
Speaker:She has played a very large role, and this sounds very
Speaker:patronizing, but has grown into it.
Speaker:I remember, I first met her when she took over the party, but then she became
Speaker:chancellor, and that made a big difference because she played a very important role.
Speaker:I was watching the United Nations meeting, yesterday actually, to talk
Speaker:about what had happened in Afghanistan.
Speaker:And, obviously, the United States is represented again by a woman,
Speaker:by Linda Thomas-Greenfield.
Speaker:But so is the United Kingdom.
Speaker:And the Deputy for Ireland is a woman.
Speaker:I was the only woman on the Security Council at the time
Speaker:that I was in New York, and I do think it makes a difference.
Speaker:And by the way, the thing that happened when I was Ambassador to the UN,
Speaker:and it was one of the first times I didn't have to cook lunch for myself.
Speaker:So I asked my assistant to get the other women ambassadors so
Speaker:that I could meet with them.
Speaker:And at that time there were 183 countries in the United Nations.
Speaker:So I get to the place I lived, and there are six other women there, out
Speaker:of all of that - Canada, Philippines, Kazakhstan, Trinidad and Tobago,
Speaker:Jamaica, and Lichtenstein, and me.
Speaker:So being the American, I decided that we had to form a caucus,
Speaker:and we called ourselves the G7.
Speaker:We agreed always to take each other's telephone calls.
Speaker:We exchanged what our backgrounds were, what we were doing.
Speaker:But we did lobby together for something which was - there was a new
Speaker:war crimes tribunal in terms of what had been happening in the Balkans,
Speaker:and most of the crimes were being committed against women - rapes.
Speaker:And we were able to lobby to get two women judges on the first former Yugoslav court.
Speaker:And that made a difference.
Speaker:We also were able to get rape declared a weapon of war.
Speaker:So I do think it makes a difference.
Speaker:When there were men who said to me, "Why would you take a call
Speaker:from Lichtenstein instead of me?"
Speaker:And I actually had the gall to say to this person, "Well, get yourself
Speaker:replaced by a woman and I'll always take your telephone call."
Speaker:You have great stories.
Speaker:Do you have any others you can share with us?
Speaker:I have to tell you that one of the hard parts is what it
Speaker:was like to go into a meeting.
Speaker:You wouldn't believe it.
Speaker:You travel abroad, and it's a very important meeting, and the
Speaker:truth is that everything really does begin with small talk.
Speaker:So men talk about, believe it or not, about their ties or something.
Speaker:So, you know, they weren't used to dealing with a woman.
Speaker:We would begin, and I would do some pleasantries, "I'm glad to
Speaker:be in your country," and all that, and we wouldn't get anywhere.
Speaker:So I finally would say, "Excuse me, but I have come a long way, so I must be frank."
Speaker:And then I really made some very frank points.
Speaker:But you have to be able to read the room a little bit and not automatically
Speaker:be angry, but try to figure out what you need to say and say it, and
Speaker:really be very proud to represent your country, which I clearly was.
Speaker:Well, I'm going to have to use that frank line myself sometime.
Speaker:It was a good one.
Speaker:You referenced in your book, I can't remember who asked you, but
Speaker:somebody asked you if you had trouble getting the men to listen to you,
Speaker:and you said, "Absolutely not.
Speaker:I flew in on Air Force One with the United States seal emblazoned on the side."
Speaker:That's a powerful moment that you recall in that book.
Speaker:Well, let me tell you how it all came up.
Speaker:What happened was when my name came up to be Secretary of State, because
Speaker:it was clear that Warren Christopher wasn't going to stay for a second term.
Speaker:So there was a period of what I call The Great Mentioning, and my
Speaker:name was out there, and somebody said, "Well, a woman couldn't be
Speaker:Secretary of State because Arab countries would not deal with a woman.
Speaker:So what happened, actually, was the Arab ambassadors at the UN with whom I had
Speaker:dealt put out a statement saying, "We had no problems dealing with Ambassador
Speaker:Albright, we wouldn't have any problem dealing with Secretary Albright."
Speaker:Then somebody at the White House, and I never want to know who,
Speaker:said, "Yeah, Madeleine's on the list, but she's second tier."
Speaker:So I was sure that I would never get it.
Speaker:Anyway, I was named Secretary of State, and I did arrive to deal with the Gulf
Speaker:Cooperation Council in Kuwait, and I did arrive in a very large plane
Speaker:that said United States of America.
Speaker:Then we had our meeting, and I actually said, "You've been very kind.
Speaker:Perhaps you've noticed that I'm not dressed the way my predecessors were.
Speaker:And next time we'll talk about women's rights."
Speaker:And we did.
Speaker:But I really do now have to tell the story of how come I did get to
Speaker:be Secretary of State because what happened was that often, once I was,
Speaker:I traveled with First Lady Hillary Clinton and President Clinton.
Speaker:And we had this kind of thing that we did, where I would introduce her, she
Speaker:would introduce him, and we were somewhere abroad at an embassy, and President
Speaker:Clinton told the following story.
Speaker:That during the period of the time that there was a discussion about
Speaker:who would be the next Secretary, that Hillary would come to him and say,
Speaker:"Why wouldn't you name Madeleine?
Speaker:She's most in tune with your views, and expresses them better than anybody else.
Speaker:And besides, it would make your mother happy."
Speaker:So that is how it happened.
Speaker:Let me just ask you one question about democracy right now in general.
Speaker:Democracy is experiencing a significant fight for its existence in so
Speaker:many countries all over the world.
Speaker:How do you make sense of what we're witnessing?
Speaker:Well, I think that there are questions generally about governance.
Speaker:And I have to say that what has happened is that in many places, kind of the
Speaker:social contract has been broken.
Speaker:Where people gave up their individual rights in order to have the government
Speaker:take on certain duties, and the part of the other side of the contract is that
Speaker:then the citizens have a responsibility to know what is going on and participate.
Speaker:And to some extent, a lot of those things in some ways have broken down.
Speaker:So that is the time that some strong leader steps in and
Speaker:says, "I can do that better."
d write a book called Fascism:A Warning that really shows that when
d write a book called Fascism:there are major disagreements, and there is some kind of a leader who says
d write a book called Fascism:that - and they're he's - can solve the problem, there is a way that they get
d write a book called Fascism:ahead and democracy really does suffer.
d write a book called Fascism:I truly do believe that we are all the same, that people want to be able to
d write a book called Fascism:make decisions about their own lives.
d write a book called Fascism:And it may begin with where they live or send their children to school, but it
d write a book called Fascism:then really grows into wanting to have a voice in how their country is run.
d write a book called Fascism:And I think I see there is happening in some places.
d write a book called Fascism:And I think that we can't just decide or give up and think that
d write a book called Fascism:authoritarianism does things better.
d write a book called Fascism:It does not.
d write a book called Fascism:And you witnessed so many falls of democracy, and sort of that
d write a book called Fascism:cyclical cycle in Eastern Europe while you were growing up.
d write a book called Fascism:I was born in Czechoslovakia, which became a victim of fascism.
d write a book called Fascism:So I spent the war in England with my family, and my father, who was a diplomat,
d write a book called Fascism:working for the government in exile.
d write a book called Fascism:Then later, Czechoslovakia was taken over by communists.
d write a book called Fascism:So I have seen the country I was born in being taken over by
d write a book called Fascism:authoritarian governments twice.
d write a book called Fascism:But I also have seen a moment of great hope and exhilaration with the fall
d write a book called Fascism:of The Wall and the end of the Soviet Union, where countries really began,
d write a book called Fascism:the ones in Central and Eastern Europe, to see that they could have a life that
d write a book called Fascism:did not divide them from democracy.
d write a book called Fascism:Well, no wiser words.
d write a book called Fascism:Thank you so much for joining me today.
d write a book called Fascism:I really appreciate your time.
d write a book called Fascism:Thank you so much for asking those really important questions because they
d write a book called Fascism:are the basis of where we have to go.
d write a book called Fascism:And this is a new era, I believe it very strongly.
d write a book called Fascism:Thank you, Madam Secretary.
d write a book called Fascism:Very good to be with you, Adrienne.
d write a book called Fascism:Thanks a lot.
d write a book called Fascism:This podcast has been produced by the Consortium for Elections and Political
d write a book called Fascism:Process Strengthening through the Global Elections and Political Transitions
d write a book called Fascism:Award, and is made possible by the generous support of the American
d write a book called Fascism:people through the United States Agency for International Development.
d write a book called Fascism:Opinions expressed here are those of the hosts and the guests,
d write a book called Fascism:and do not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the U.S.
d write a book called Fascism:Government, and is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media.
d write a book called Fascism:For more information on Democracy!
d write a book called Fascism:The Podcast, and to access the complete archives, please