Amanda Stahl, Director of Longevity Planning at Raymond James, returns to the podcast to explain that retirement planning extends beyond finances and highlights the importance of partnering with longevity experts to address aging clients’ needs.

Julie, did you ever come across something where, like you thought to yourself, man, this seems like a big hassle. I’m not sure I want to do it. Yeah. Everybody says it’s such a great thing, but. And then you do it and you’re like, oh my gosh, I wish I had done this ten years ago. That ever happened to you?

Yes, absolutely. I was kicking myself and angry and. But I thought, hindsight’s 2020. You got to look forward.

Well, today’s today’s podcast is about building a longevity panel. And I can tell you the first response I typically get from financial professionals is, oh man, this is way over my head. Like, I don’t even know if I want to get involved with this and pertaining to what we just talked about. My experience is once they dig in, and especially once they hold an event, or they engage their longevity panel in some aspect of helping to solve a client problem, they’re always like, man, why didn’t I do this ten years ago? I don’t know if you’ve had the same experience.

Absolutely. And it’s hard because it’s change, right. And it’s bringing more conversations and more people and a little bit more complexity into the conversation. And I understand right in time is a very limited and scarce resource. And so I think on the surface it feels like, oh, I don’t know, I already have a lot on my plate. Does this make sense to to bring in to my client service model? But I think you’re absolutely right. Every single piece of feedback that I have ever received on this longevity panel topic is exactly what you just said. John, I can’t believe I didn’t start this sooner. I can’t believe I didn’t implement this years ago. It is such an amazing resource to my clients and ultimately to my practice and my team. Really, at the end of the day.

And you know, when we think about it, Julie, uh, Raymond James was one of the first firms, uh, that we work with. It really kind of took the mantle on themselves to begin to think about what these longevity services and panels were. And we began working with Amanda Stall and her team at Raymond James long ago, starting to envision what some of these services and what some of these specialists might actually look like, and how we could bring them together in an orchestrated manner to provide a better client experience for their clients. And so I know we thought that Amanda Stall would be a perfect guest to have on the Human Centric Investing podcast. So, Julie, will you share with our audience a little bit about Amanda?

Absolutely. Amanda is the director of longevity Planning at Raymond James, connecting financial advisors with longevity planning resources to help clients and their families plan for the caregiving and health care needs related to longer lifespans. She is part of the Raymond James Global Wealth Solutions, Diversity and Inclusion Committee. She is a mentor with Raymond James Emerge Mentoring program. She was a member of the 2022 Next Chapter Leadership, an action group by The Execution Project, the Money Management Institute, and Financial Advisor magazine.

So let’s hear what Amanda had to share with us about the effectiveness of longevity panels. Hi, I’m John.

And I’m Julie.

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing podcast.

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let’s go.

Welcome to the Human Centric Investing podcast, Amanda. We are so excited to have you here with us today.

Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

So Amanda, our topic today on the podcast is something that many financial professionals may not be familiar with. It’s a it’s a thing called a longevity panel. And uh, so first of all, we have to make the giant leap into knowing that we’re interested. We want to move in the direction of longevity planning. But can you explain to us that in your mind and in from your perspective, what the longevity panel is, and why is there a need to maybe think about creating one?

Yeah. So for us at Raymond James, we really think about the longevity panel and what we call our suite of resources as building a network around the advisor and therefore around the client to help them navigate aging, longevity, caregiving, whether for themselves or if they’re helping to take care of an aging family member. And we really feel it’s important and a great way for the advisor to really become the center point advisor for that client and for their family as they navigate all of these different aspects of longer lifespans, all of which have a financial implication and can affect the financial plan.

When you think about the network, you know, oftentimes we think about, uh, CPA and an attorney historically. Will you talk to us a little bit about who might be in this network and is it broader than that?

Absolutely. So there are so many resources and professionals out there that advisors and clients might not even know exist. And so for the advisor to be able to educate clients on some of these different professionals can provide so much value. So people like geriatric or senior care managers who come in, coordinate the care, help with finding home health care or finding care residences. People like student senior move managers who will come in and help with downsizing or doing estate sales or helping people after somebody has passed certified aging in Place, specialist contractors that have special designation to come in and make modifications in the home, to be able to make it safe for somebody to live there for as long as possible. So people might not know these exist, and for the advisor to just let them know can really be a great differentiator for the advisor and for their business.

I mean, you’ve mentioned, uh, geriatric care managers. That’s an area where oftentimes, uh, it it’s like night and day financial professionals who have engaged a geriatric care manager or what now are known as aging life care managers, I think, are aging and aging care managers. They’ll often say, oh my gosh, I wish these people I knew these people existed years ago. How do you how do you direct your advisors to finding out more about these folks? Like are there resources they offer? Do you have a list that you provide, like how does that or how would I find out about something like that?

So the route that we’ve taken is we’ve established a relationship with a national company that has local care managers around the country. Um, but there are also lots of great organizations. You mentioned Aging Life Care Associates, that’s an association that, um, senior care managers can affiliate with, and they are doing background checks and, and ongoing education and things like that. And so it really just depends on the firm on the advisors approach. Um, but there are I would say Aging Life Care Associates is the most well known organization out there. If you wanted to find somebody in your local area.

Awesome. Thanks.

It seems to me like these, these resources that you mentioned are so crucial in the moment that you need them. But if you don’t know they’re out there, it’s one of those things where that knowledge of them and the timing and it’s just such a delicate web. How do you help advisors sort of build that, that web, if you will, or that list, and then ultimately talk to clients about the availability. I’ll share with you a couple of years ago. Um, another grab of mine passed away, and we found a company that was able to come in and help our family pack up all of her belongings, sell some things, donate some things. And it was just at a crucial moment when we needed help. We we didn’t have enough people that could. They could do all of it. And it was just that resource. They were like angels to us and we didn’t know they existed. And we luckily sort of found this, this resource. And had we known about it, it would have been so amazing. And I’ve told everyone I can think of, and I was waiting from the rafters sharing this, this resource to, to help people in this situation. But how how can we help financial professionals build the lists and then talk to clients so that they know that these pieces exist, so that in that moment they can say, oh, there’s that resource to help us pack up mom’s house, or, oh, there’s that resource to help us find care, or there’s that resource to help us build the ramp, because mom broke her hip, because it just seems like everything is such a perfect and delicate timing and knowing about the resource. And then to be able to engage it in the right time. That, to me, seems like the magic where the two pieces come together.

Absolutely. So different things like home modifications, where that needs to be done before somebody needs it. Um, so when it comes to building out resources and who you’re going to work with and refer clients to, it’s so dependent on the firm, understand your rules, your compliance, all those different things. And what we done is we actually decided to go out and vet resources so that our advisors had a go to for other firms. Typically, what you’re going to want to do is find a handful in your community. So you have a list for yourself, and then you can share that list of 3 or 4 with the client, and they can kind of make the decision from there. So that’s what typically I find advisors doing if if you know, the firm doesn’t have an established relationship or a vetted resource, um, when it comes to telling clients about it within the context of the financial planning, conversation is huge to think about housing. And if you want to stay in your home, do we need to build in a financial plan to or a goal within the financial plan to make that home accessible? Just having, uh, a flier for the company and bringing it up in the annual review, or that meeting with the client, having a client event and letting clients know, you know, Hartford Funds has so much great content on this. Maybe they do a client event with Hartford Funds, and then they also follow up with, here are the local resources that you have access to, and that we want to make sure that you’re aware of.

So Amanda, sometimes I think, uh, advisors, we kind of think we need to be masters of all right instead of, uh, jack of all trades, masters of none, but especially when it comes to some of these periphery issues. The question I get, and maybe it’s a reiteration of something you just share with Julie and I was you take the advisor that hasn’t even heard of a longevity panel before. Um, often times the question we get is, where do I start? One of the things I often say is begin observing your clients in their natural habitat. Right. Like what are the services that maybe they’ve used or they even talk to you about? How do you counsel advisors about update myself here, how to start building their Rolodex, even though nobody has a Rolodex anymore? Um, how do they start putting these folks together? Is it really to look at it, kind of look at their book and see what kind of things they’re hearing about over and over again?

I think so, and we rely on our advisors to help inform the types of resources that we offer more broadly. So kind of on a macro level, we are certainly doing that because they’re the ones working with clients every day. I’m not in a bubble coming up with this stuff. You know, we’re really collaborating with, uh, a group of advisors that we call our Longevity Advisory Board on a monthly basis. So thinking of their top clients, almost looking at a board of your clients and understanding what’s going to be relevant to them if you are just starting to break into this and talking about health care and caregiving in these different things, Medicare is going to be a great place to get started. It’s certainly our most popular resource, and definitely a place where you can provide a lot of value to clients, particularly those that are enrolling in Medicare for the first time. Somebody turned 64. They are inundated with mail and phone calls. And so for them to be able to know, I trust my financial advisor and by extension, I trust this Medicare resource that they’re telling me about. It can really take a load off for a lot of clients as they’re navigating, uh, what could be a confusing decision when it comes to Medicare?

So I’m thinking of our listeners right now, and they’re probably intrigued and thinking, you know, I haven’t been doing this. I like the idea. I can see introducing these these professionals or these concepts as part of a planning conversation. However, if I’m not an expert in these areas, I’m nervous about talking about them. Right? Yeah. How how do they overcome that, that mental block? How have you seen financial professionals sort of overcome that hurdle? Because I can understand that, right. If you haven’t talked about some of these topics, it’s sort of hard to introduce them. If you aren’t the expert and you don’t feel like you have credibility. We’ve talked to us a little bit about that, please.

Sure. I think being able to make that referral out to a third party can be really valuable. So perhaps in your area, that’s fine. Being a care manager who knows about all of these other different resources that could be valuable and referring business to them and just making it clear to the client, this is an introduction. You’re going to take it from here. You know, the advisor doesn’t need to be involved in all those those conversations. You don’t need to be on the call where they’re signing up for Medicare. The client probably doesn’t want you to know their doctors and medications and things like that. But just making that referral can be so, so valuable. And I would just remind them that all of these things have a financial implication, whether that’s what you’re paying for Medicare on a monthly basis or if somebody falls and they need to find a care residents, how is that going to be funded? All of these different things. A lot of times, the advisors getting the call of how do we pay for this? Why not be a little bit more proactive and let your clients know you can help them with some of these different things? You are, and the advisor is just so well positioned to be able to have these conversations. They just kind of have to get over that initial potential trepidation and and go for it.

So, Amanda, as you know, I have a lot of respect for the Raymond James management team. And a lot of these initiatives, I’m sure are are very good for clients, and they find them very helpful. But I don’t think your management team or any financial advisor would support really extensive effort in this area if it didn’t have an impact on the bottom line. So I guess, Mike, the question I often get is, well, is all this stuff really worth it? And I know that you and your team actually measure impact. What could you share with us about the impact of these longevity panels and your longevity services in general? What impact if they had on your financial advisors?

We know that our more successful advisors have vastly higher average T12 and AUM. The ones that are using our resources have higher T12 and AUM than those that are not. And that’s because they are those more successful advisors. They’re having these deeper conversations with clients, they’re engaged in family decisions, and they’re utilizing longevity resources to really take that to the next level. And I think there is, and it’s something we’re still working on, but a potential for advisors to be able to really charge for a broader planning engagement, where you’re charging that flat fee for the financial plan and having these longevity conversations, connecting them with resources, understanding, you know, our all the estate planning documents in place, having that insurance review where you’re really providing this platinum package for the client. And I think advisors need to feel a little bit more empowered to charge for those sorts of things, because you really are going above and beyond and spending a lot of time to help clients figure out their lives in a broader picture.

Do you think there’s power in sharing stories of other clients? Of course, without names, but other clients that have navigated situations. So. And then, you know, what with clients, I mean, is that a powerful way for a financial professional to sort of paint the picture to clients or prospects, even of how some of these longevity networks or panels can be helpful?

Definitely. So storytelling is so powerful, and I know you all have done a lot of work in that space as well. Everybody either is a caregiver, was a caregiver is going to be a caregiver, or they’re going to need care. Um, it’s such a relatable topic and so emotional for people. You really can get talking. You see a lot of tears in these conversations, but it’s just such a great way to deepen that relationship. And I my job is to convince advisors to use this stuff. I’m using the success stories of other advisors to really try and, um, get them to use these resources too. So to be able to share, I’ve been through this with my family, or I have a client that did or didn’t do X, Y, z, and this was the outcome can be so impactful. You’re not trying to scare people. It’s just showing that planning ahead and thinking through these things can make a stressful time. Whether that serious illness or the loss of a loved one or a care need a little bit less stressful because they have a plan in place and they understand what the actions are that they need to take next.

So man, I’ll throw an idea into the ring and see if Raymond James and you and your colleagues can figure this one out. Technology training for us as we age, right? It seems like there should be a geek squad of some kind out there to help people of all different aptitudes. We hear about it all the time. So whenever you get that one figured out, make sure and connect me with that one, because I could probably use it myself.

I think that’s a great point. I know Best Buy has a whole aging, you know, sector now that they that they’re working on. So they we need a geek squad for seniors for sure.

When you think of sort of the next iteration of this, Amanda, in terms of, you know, moving ahead, where where does your mind go? Obviously, you’ve done so much work and you and your team have worked tirelessly to build out the concept of the Longevity Network, and you vetted the resources. And, I mean, it is an amazing package and suite of resources and materials for advisors. What’s next is you think of sort of the phase, you know, two, three, four or whatever phase you’re in. But when you innovate this, where does your mind go?

We would really like it to be a one stop shop, where the client can go and put their information into one online form, and that it’s disseminated with their permission, of course, to any third parties that they want to work with, enabling the advisor to really potentially either just offer it as a value add and you’re getting this package, this suite of resources or charge for it like we talked about. So really, for it to be more of this longevity experience as opposed to what right now is a little bit more piecemeal, where they might use the fraud protection, they might use the caregiving, just really presenting it as a more holistic offering through the advisor.

Interesting.

So, Amanda, speaking of holistic offerings, one of the things that Julie and I like to do is more holistically understand the guests that we have on our podcast, and we do that through something we call the Lightning Round. So if you’re game, what we’ll do is begin firing a series of questions at you. And we just want top of the mind answers. And it just helps. Since we are the human centric investing podcast, it helps our audience get to to know Amanda Stahl a little bit better as a person. So if you’re a game, we can get rolling with some questions.

I’m ready. Let’s do it.

You used a paper To-Do list or a digital To-Do list?

I use digital, but kind of in an analog way. I just use the notes app and list out every day what I have with a little checkbox next to it. So I have it with me and accessible, but I’m not using any fancy tools.

Those checkboxes are awesome.

They it’s very gratifying.

It is. It is indeed. What’s your favorite city in the US?

Favorite city in the US? I love Saint Petersburg, where I live, honestly. I do.

Too. That’s one of my favorites as well.

It’s great to visit. I really like Washington, D.C. I love being able to walk around and take public transit, and all the Smithsonian’s are free and it’s a great city to visit.

Are you a morning person or a night owl?

Night owl for sure. I get a second wind at 10 p.m. every night.

When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?

My honest answer. I grew up Catholic, and I didn’t understand why women couldn’t be priests. And I wanted to be a priest. Um, but then as I got older, I really thought I would always go to law school and be an attorney. And my senior year of undergrad, I had a change of heart. And I must say, I’m quite glad I didn’t go down that path.

As a kid, going back to our days of our youth. What was your favorite board game as a child?

Life, like I always was looking to. Ready to go to high school, ready to go to college, ready to do the next thing. And I really loved the game of life.

That’s awesome.

Guys, would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

I think the past. Yeah. I don’t want to. I don’t want to know what’s coming. I’d rather keep that mystery alive.

My last question for you. Dogs. Cats or neither?

Dogs. I have a dog, Eleanor Roosevelt, and she’s eight. She’s great. And definitely a dog person.

And if you could travel the world for free, where would you go first?

Ooh, I really want to go to Ireland and Scotland. Looks beautiful. And that is definitely at the top of my list.

Love it. Well, Amanda, we can’t thank you enough for joining us again here today on the Human Centric Investing podcast. And for our listeners, if you are interested in any of the resources that Amanda mentioned, please visit Raymond james.com/longevity planning for all of the ideas and platforms and the suite of materials that Amanda discussed, she and her team have put so much time and energy into the longevity planning topic, and we know that clients aren’t necessarily proactively bringing it up. And so her goal, our goal is to empower you to bring this up with your clients and make it the cornerstone of your conversation. So on behalf of all of us, Amanda, thank you so much for being here with us on the Human Centric Investing podcast.

Thank you so much. And also just have to quickly say thank you to you all. All of this started for us at Raymond James, in part with your work with the MIT lab. And Hartford funds. The three questions. So you all were a big inspiration for what we’re doing now, and so excited to see it continue to evolve.

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Hartford funds may or may not be invested in the companies referenced herein. However, no particular endorsement of any product or service is being made. The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.