Tim Reid, an international coach and speaker, takes on the challenge of creating a successful podcast to build audience and authority and discovers the surprising irony that making podcasting a hobby unlocks the time, money, and energy needed to achieve success.

"If you're into podcasting, make podcasting your hobby. What I mean by that, Johnny, is when something's a hobby, you'll find the time, you'll find the money, you'll find the resources, you'll find the energy, you'll put it in your diary, you'll look forward to the next time it comes around because it's a hobby."

Tim Reid is the host of the Small Business Big Marketing Podcast and the author of 'The Boomerang Effect'. He is a renowned business speaker who has interviewed over 595 successful business owners about their business journey and the role of marketing.

Tim Reid was an aspiring radio personality and when he was given the opportunity to use a fancy studio he seized it, creating the Small Business Big Marketing Podcast and becoming Australia's first business podcast. As the podcast gained traction, Tim realized podcasting was a powerful tool for creating brand awareness and he started to reap the rewards of his hard work. Podcasting has been his hobby and business for the past 13 years and he is passionate about helping other podcasters reach their dreams. By combining entertainment and education, Tim Reid has created a successful podcast and encourages other podcasters to respect the ads that support their shows.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How to make podcasting a business and why it is an amazing format for business owners.

2. How to monetize a podcast by creating your own products or using third-party sponsors.

3. How to create compelling content that educates and entertains listeners.

Resources:

The Small Business Big Marketing podcast

Check out his Website

Give him a call with a question for his show at +61 480 015 150 and let him know what marketing is working for you. He may play it in an upcoming episode.

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Alex Sanfilippo | How to use podcasts to create business success

Mark Asquith | How to have a full time career in podcasting and why you shouldn't learn marketing from a podcaster

Connect with me: 

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/johnaball

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/johnaball

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/podfluence/id1484941406

Join me for the Podfluence Weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, Medium or Beehive to get articles and show updates every week(ish).

You are warmly invited to join other coaching & speaking professionals who are building their authority through podcasting in the Podfluencers Facebook Group and get your free download of How to build authority with podcasts

Did you learn anything new or useful? If you did, then the best way to show your appreciation is by sharing the show with your online network. Tag me and I'll give you a shout-out on an upcoming episode. Leave a review and I'll read it out on the show.

Of course, if you REALLY liked it, you're welcome to support the show financially too using this link Support the show (https://speakinginfluence.supercast.tech/)

This is Podfluence the podcast that helps business coaches and speakers

to grow your business through podcasts.

My name is John Ball and my mission is to help you as a business coach or

speaker to build professional influence and grow your following with podcasts

so you can have a thriving business.

In this episode, we'll be looking at how you can make a podcast

into a successful business.

If you're a business coach or speaker, you should not only be appearing on

podcasts, but at some point you should at least start to think about having a

show of your own to take your opportunity and your following to a new level.

My guest on this episode is Tim Reid, the host of the Small Business Big Marketing

podcast, and Tim started podcasting long before most of us had ever even

heard of podcasts, and certainly before they were ever widely listened to.

Yet he managed to make a business out of his show, which is still

going strong, and he's here to show you how you can do the same.

Tim brings a lot of himself to the show and has that Aussie cheekiness that many

of us love, and he's a real fan of dad jokes and with his previous broadcasting

experience, he gets the key distinctions between radio broadcasting and podcasting.

Find out in this episode what led Tim to start a podcast 13 years ago

when hardly anyone else was doing it, and which three questions you must

be able to answer in order to create a good outcome-based podcast show.

I got introduced to Tim by someone he barely knew, and yet

I was as warmly welcomed by him as I would expect from someone

welcoming an old, long lost friend.

I immediately liked Tim's disarming style and his directness and how he

approaches podcasting and marketing.

He says, make it your hobby, make it something you do for fun rather

than because you feel you have to, and your marketing and your messaging

will never be the same again.

So I invite you now to enjoy this episode of Podfluence

Well, welcome to the show, and I am a lucky man today because in my

work I get to speak to people who do an amazing job of building podcasts

and building businesses, and sharing great information with people.

So I get to learn at the same time as you do too.

And I am in great company today because I'm getting to

listen and speak with somebody.

I don't know how I haven't come into contact with before.

He is the host of small business, big marketing podcast, as well as

being the author of many books, the Great Business Speaker.

I've been listening to the show and I'm kind thinking, you know,

I even know some of his friends.

I know so many Australian marketers.

How did I never come into contact with him before?

Let me welcome to the show, Tim reid.

Good day, Johnny, and good day fellow podcasters and Future podcasters.

May we offer you some value in the coming, however long.

It is great to have be speaking with you and I've really been

enjoying listening to your show and would honestly recommend anybody, a small

business owner or interested in marketing in any way to go and check it out.

I even took a very important message with me today from listening to your show

about, you said about making marketing a hobby to make it fun for yourself,

I think, and that's, that's the kind.

Little bit of gold that you can just keep with.

It's like, yeah, make it fun.

Make it something you want, you want to do rather than something.

Well make, make

podcasting your hobby.

If you, if you're into podcasting, you know, like make, make podcasting hobby.

What I mean by that, Johnny, is when something's a hobby you'll find the

time, you'll find the money, you'll find the resources, you'll find the

energy, you'll put it in your diary.

You'll look forward to the next time it comes around because it's a hobby.

And, you know, on, on the small business big marketing podcast, having interviewed,

as of today, 595 successful business owners about their business journey and

about what role marketing has played.

So many of them talk about marketing as a hobby.

They don't necessarily use that word, but I sort of coined it and I love I love

the fact that we can make parts of our business a hobby if they're enjoyable.

And, podcasting is certainly one of those things that is a lot

of fun and should be enjoyable.

Well,

I definitely think that, and I'm gonna be listening to a

lot more episodes of your show.

I'm very happy that I've been introduced to it.

Good ideas.

I've al already found so much value in there.

And there will be links to the, to your show and to your site and to all the

things that we're gonna talk about today that we might mention in the show notes.

for anyone who wants to go and check that out now or later on, because certainly

you'll want to, after you've heard more of our conversation today, you have

done podcasting for a fair old while.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Well, I started 13 years ago, so, the Small Business Big Marketing podcast

is 13 years old, come June, 2022.

And probably the first business podcast in Australia.

And you know, when I first came across them, Johnny, and, and I still hold this

excitement as someone who represents small businesses in Australia and sorts

and like to think that I'm in service to them and a bit of a spokesperson for them.

Podcasting is amazing because not only can you, can us as listeners find

a, a piece of audio somewhere on the internet about a topic that we have

a hundred percent interest in that we can listen for free on demand.

I think that's amazing.

On the other side of that coin, as a business owner, you can now have your

own show, and by that I mean a podcast.

You can also have your own TV show if you're into YouTube, and you can have your

own book if you're into self-publishing.

Podcasting allows us to have our own radio show.

And, and I find that incredible.

You know, that's what's, that's a big, big game changer.

And that occurred to me 13 years ago and it's still, I still

get excited about it today,

but there have been a lot of changes in podcasting

even just in the last couple of years since I started this show.

And so I, I wonder, did, did you really see the potential early on?

Or did you think this is fun and I'm just gonna do this?

Cause it's a nice way to be able to talk about stuff.

A hundred percent.

I thought it was fun.

I, I was given a great opportunity of using a really fancy radio

studio in Melbourne, Australia many years ago, which I just took up.

I, I was like, I created the problem.

I went to a friend who was working in radio and I always secretly wanted to be

on radio and just, I had subsequently, as a result of my podcasting, I have been

on, on radio now, but back then I hadn't.

So I, I created this problem where a mate of mine was in radio.

I said I'd discovered podcasting.

He said, anytime you want to use this particular studio, you can.

And I took that eye up.

Then I'm like, wow, what do I do ? What am I gonna do with it?

And rang a mate and said, Hey, why don't we start a marketing podcast?

And.

and we had a lot of fun with it, and we started to get really good feedback.

Not not straight away.

And that's something you need to understand about any content creation.

You're not gonna get feedback straight away, so, right.

Don't look at the scoreboard, don't look to see who's liking

it, sharing it, commenting on it.

Just do, just create great content.

But over time, I started to realize that, wow, this thing is getting traction.

I'm getting lovely listener reviews on iTunes.

I'm getting lovely emails from listeners, I'm being asked to speak at conferences.

There were, there was a lot of things happening as a direct line between

starting a podcast and, and, and other opportunities coming my way.

I certainly didn't see the purple patch that we are in now, 13 years later

where podcasting has gone bananas.

Every man and his dog thinks they need to get one.

Maybe they do, but you need to have a good reason.

I think you make an important point.

I think a lot of people do this not just with podcasts, but with content

marketing in general of doing something and then, oh, it hasn't gone viral, so

it hasn't worked, or it hasn't got tons of response right away, but not realizing

that you have to stay consistent with these things and keep going, especially

with podcasting because it is, is I think, a very long game kind of.

Yeah, it is and, and, and like if, if you expect in podcasting is

very good at creating brand awareness, whether it be personal brand awareness

or awareness around your business or products or services that you sell.

It's very, it's a very good awareness raising tool.

It's not an awesome direct response tool necessarily because

if you think about where are we consuming podcasts, we are driving.

We are jogging, we're in the gym, we're in bed, we are walking the dog.

And as a result, you don't really have the ability to immediately respond,

whereas video, you are because you are leading into a screen and you can do that.

But if you sort of go in understanding what do you want to get from

creating a podcast and you set those expectations, reasonable expectations,

then you're not gonna be disappointed.

And you may well be quite happy with what comes from a podcast because it can be.

It, it definitely can be.

And, and which, I mean, there was a chain of events that led to you starting

your show and then kind of a fun thing.

But if things hadn't happened that way, do you think you would've

ended up coming to podcasts anyway?

I think I would've.

I, I love the audio format.

I, I love audio.

I just think it's so personal.

And it's not heavy lifting.

You know, I'm not a technical person at.

I look at video and I think there's a lot of heavy lifting in video.

And I don't mean physically, I mean cameras and stuff, but they're not that

heavy anymore cause they're phones.

But the files are big.

You've gotta go through and watch it all and there's lots of editing and

all that kind of stuff to be done.

And because you, you can be seen, then there is a probably a

greater need to edit some things.

Whereas I, I think with podcasting it's, it's just lighter and it's easier

and the audio format is so consumable.

That's just, that's being proven now with, you know, the, the advertising revenues

from podcasts are expected to double off a fairly big base in the next two years.

And it's just gonna keep going that way.

So, yeah it's a wonderful, wonderful format.

Yeah.

If you were able to go back in time and give yourself some advice as a starting

podcaster, what would that advice?

Uh, I would probably say from a monetizing point of view, and everyone's

like, how do you monetize a podcast?

Back then I remember thinking, I remember ringing a very considered

colleague of mine when I started the small business big marketing show, and

I said, Dave, I'm starting a podcast.

I'm gonna get some sponsorship.

I'm gonna make a million dollars and everything's gonna be amazing.

and he said to me, you might wanna build an audience first.

And I thought, oh, that's, that's a good, that's good advice.

So the first step of that was to just sit back.

And this was months into having a podcast.

So I sat back after that and just focused on building an audience and not chasing

sponsors if I were to do it again.

And there are, there are a number of ways of monetizing podcasts through,

you know, third party sponsorship, which I do, which I've been doing for

the last, almost, almost 13 years.

But the what I probably would do is have my own products.

I would create a suite of, whether it be online courses if I'd, you know, if

you had an age, a marketing agency in my case, which I didn't, I would sell my own

stuff because then it's a hundred percent margin, then you are in complete control.

Then you're not answerable to a third party sponsor.

And that would seem to be a very, very good idea.

Having said that, I've had wonderful success with third party sponsors

from American Express Dell yellow Pages some really big brands,

but I've chosen them selectively.

I've chosen them.

Yeah, because the brands are important to my listeners, but also the people

behind those brands are easy to work with.

And as a one-man show, as a one man podcaster, I just wanna work with good.

Yeah, and, and I guess you can have both, right?

You can market your own stuff and have some third party.

Of course, you don't wanna go too heavy on the ads, especially

if you are a new podcast host.

That, that, uh,

you, you could have both you, you could have both.

And you do wanna make sure that you get the weight weighting, right.

As a podcast consumer and I consume a lot of podcasts as well as create a podcast.

I get that ads are annoying and I myself find myself doing the little

10, 15 seconds skip forward, you know, getting away from the ads too.

But, but we, we've, we have to, and I don't, I mean, this is a bit of a soapbox

rant that I'm about to get on, but the reality is as podcasters particularly a

podcaster for me, podcasting is an end.

It isn't a means to an end.

Podcasting is my business.

Sure.

It creates other revenue stream.

But I don't have a marketing agency that I'm trying to drive business to.

I'm not a marketing coach that I'm trying to drive business to.

I wanna make a living from podcasting.

And so I'd love people to respect the ads more on podcasts, particularly

bespoke podcasts, not the podcasts that are repurposed radio shows.

They've got their own budgets and all that.

That, but US Independent podcast is we do heavily rely on the kindness and

the support of big brands and little brands, anyone who wants to sponsor us.

So yeah, gotta kind of be respectful of that.

And I try not to skip forward.

. John Ball: Yeah, me too.

I mean, I think I do find some of the shows that I listen to.

I like yourself, I listen to a lot of shows.

They tend to, if they are selective with the ads that they choose,

it tends to be stuff you think

oh, well that's interesting to hear about at.

Oh, sometimes one of the things I think is very clever, they'll have ads for their

own show, for upcoming episodes or for older episodes or collections of episodes

that you can go and check out and things.

So I think, I just think it makes sense if you are a business owner who

is doing a podcast as part of your professional ecosystem, not just as

your business, but as part of that.

Of course it makes sense to promote your own stuff and your own products

and services because you are creating and developing that relationship

with every show that's you make.

That's right.

Yeah.

And, and I think too, if you are, if you are gonna start a podcast and you

are gonna do ads, whether it be for your own stuff or for a third party

brand certainly in my experience, the most effective ads are live

reads where the host reads the ads.

never take pre-recorded ads like radio stations do, and just

drop them into your podcast.

It sounds too much like radio and people don't want podcasts to sound like radio.

And if you are gonna do live reads as a podcaster, try and put some, just

again, put your own personality into it.

You know, don't try and put on your marketing voice and this, this

program is brought to you by Dell.

You know, and it's like, don't, don't do that.

Just, just.

Have some fun.

Find an emotional entry point into the brand that's sponsoring your

podcast and talk about it in a human.

Yeah,

I, I was listening not that long ago to I dunno if you've

heard of Tracy Hazard, but she has the binge-worthy podcast and so she's

looking at what makes shows binge worthy.

And one of the things that she was talking, I think this might have been

in her marketing podcast though was that they actually done some research into

podcast ads and what was most effective.

and they said nearly, it is always host red ads.

It's always the host read ads and the natural voice ads that are the most

effective because that is the voice that that audience is already trusting.

Yeah.

And so of course it makes a, it makes huge difference.

Makes that in Johnny about

it.

You know, get a brief from your sponsors, understand the brands or whatever they

wanted, they want you to say, and then find stories from your own experience.

Bring to life those brands.

So for example, and he's not doing it well, although he's the

biggest podcaster in the world.

Joe Rogan reads ads, right?

He does live reads and, and I've been listening a lot to Joe lately,

and he's been mentioning Active Greens or some health powder, right?

He's reading a script.

Yes.

And it's very, it's very obvious now, Joe's a health fanatic.

Joe takes athletic greens.

Surely he could find a, Of he's own volition.

That includes athletic greens, and just tell that as opposed to reading some

script written by the advertising agency.

It, it would make sense.

And I know he is like one of the top shows in the world and I have listened

to him before, but it's definitely not one of my favorite podcasters,

, although he is always interesting.

He's always interesting to hear.

What he definitely is is polarizing.

And I guess it's more the guest choices that he has that I

don't always enjoy tuning into.

So, you know, I used to listen to it and now it's not really my

scene, but I particularly like people like Jordan Harbinger and hi.

I still listen to some Tim Ferriss stuff as well, you know, so I do listen to

some of the big ones, but I often find it more interesting listening to some

of the lesser known podcasters who don't have the big reps to live up to and

are doing maybe more interesting things and trying some different stuff out.

Cause.

There is opportunity for innovation in podcasting and and I think it's

necessary because I dunno about you, but, and when, if you listen to a

lot of shows, you probably do come across this of, a lot of people do the

same standard formula for every show.

Yes.

And and if, you know, you do guesting as well as I do, I'm sure.

And as you are now, Very often you'll start a show with the whole sort of

potted life history and you may even find yourself, it's like I'm a bit bored

of telling this story now, because it's like every other show I go on is asking

me for this little mini history of my life and my career and stuff like that.

It's like, well, you can check that stuff out outside of the Yeah, people

want to get to the, to the juicy stuff.

The meat of it.

I, I'm amazed and, and you know, the little podcasters, the smaller

podcasters listening to this, don't beat yourself up if you're doing it.

You make a good point.

Another podcast that I listen to a lot is Sam Harris.

He's a philosopher.

I think his podcast is called Waking Up.

Now Sam Yeah.

Is an experienced media person.

Sam is an experienced podcaster.

Sam is a philosopher.

He's incredibly considered and well thought out.

However, he spends an incredible amount of time right at the top

of his, each episode, giving a bit of a bio of the guest.

Then he introduces the.

and his first question to the guest is, tell us a little bit about yourself.

It's like, Sam, Sam, the lesson there for us all, and Sam's a philosopher.

He's not a marketer, he's not a consumer behaviorist.

You know, I, I, I'll forgive him, although he should know better.

What he should do is get straight into the meat and potatoes of,

you know, why is this guest here?

You know?

And the, the lesson is, respect the audience.

That's what we've got as podcasters, anyone creating content.

It ain't about you and I, Johnny in this show right now.

It's about whoever's listening.

And my mindset is, and I'm sure yours is, how do we extract, how do you extract

maximum value from me as the guest?

And how do I, as the guest, make sure that I give maximum value to the.

Because they have, they have for whatever reason, madness a, a slight

lapse in, you know, brain fog.

They've decided to listen to you and I . Yeah,

exactly.

And I'm, and I'm always very grateful for that.

You know, I, I just uh, just last week hit 10,000 downloads, which

good on, I think I'm, I think I might be a little bit behind the industry

curve, but I'm still happy that I hit the , hit that figure cuz it's a.

It is an absolute milestone.

Again, I mean, be absolutely be proud of it.

Pop the cork on it, but don't attach yourself to it and don't

spend too much time thinking about it because it's a number.

If you say to me, is that a good number?

I don't know.

It's 10,000.

It's, it's less than 11,000 and more than nine.

Seth Goden, who's one of the world's you.

Leading marketing experts and who I interviewed on the small business,

big marketing show a few years ago, made the point that every business

needs a thousand raving fans.

Doesn't matter what the business is, you need a thousand raving fans,

not 10,000, not a million, not two.

But if you can have a thousand and it's, and for, you know, for the local locksmith

listening or the local chiropractor or accountant, they might go, they might go,

that's a lot, but not, it's not really not if you create content that is, is worth.

That is, that is whether it be life changing or business changing or

compelling, having a thousand people who listen and may talk about you to

others, it's not that big a number.

So I think my point there is again, don't focus on the numbers, you

know, because I'm not sure they're that compelling, whether they're

five, you know, it was . No, I, I agree.

And it's whilst the sta you should certainly pay attention to your stats

that they're not the be all and end all, because they don't tell you

everything that's going on and as much as you can have, you know, I've been in

groups online where there, especially like, I think a one marketing group

that I've been in where there was over 17,000 people in this group, but a very

small fraction of that were active.

And so it's like, well, would you rather have a small active audience

or a large inactive audience?

I would rather have a smaller engaged and active audience myself.

A hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

You know, like give me a hundred, a hundred customers who actively

wanna buy from me on a regular basis, versus a thousand who

window shop and mail may not buy.

You know, that's, yeah.

That's where I'd like to,

Now you would've seen a lot of changes in the time.

I mean, our podcasting has changed quite a lot in the last five years,

certainly in the last 10 years.

And, and you've been podcasting through that time and, and I wonder what are

some of the most significant things that you've noticed in the development

of podcasting as an industry in that.

I get asked this about Marketing J because the small business, big

marketing podcast is about marketing.

I get asked that question about marketing and then specifically when we're

talking podcasting about podcasting.

And my answer is always the same.

There will always be a bright, shiny object, Johnny, there is

always gonna be a new microphone.

There is always gonna be a new social media platform, like,

you know, say a clubhouse.

There's always going to be a new recording software.

We are on Riverside fm.

There's Zencaster, there's blue jeans, there's, there's

always going to be something.

But guess what?

The fundamentals remain unchanged.

Create, create compelling content.

Know your audience, know what problems they have that you can solve.

Create compelling content around it, doing it in an engaging way that has people

leading in and listening, and you are on, on the road to creating something special.

If you constantly, you know, like when, when other podcasters find out, or even

not podcasts, maybe would be podcasters.

Find out that I'm a podcaster more often than not, and I'll

say out eight out of 10 times.

The very first question is, what microphone do you use?

It's irrelevant.

, it's such an irrelevant question.

It doesn't matter.

The microphones on our smartphones these days are broadcast quality, so find

a microphone that you know you like.

You like the look of, I mean, absolutely.

Audio is good quality audio is fundamental to creating great podcasts,

but gee, unless you've won the microphone at the local fair, then

the one you buy at the local discount store probably ain't gonna be too bad.

So, I care little for developments.

We've had, you know, Spotify's come on board and they've got podcasts now.

You know, I know Facebook and Google it.

They're all working hard.

They've got Stitch.

Everyone's working hard to capture the podcast market.

But again, I stay pretty focused and my focus is on my listener,

on their needs, on the problems they have that I can solve, and

creating content that solves it in.

And for me, and people say to me, Johnny, you know, why is

the small business big marketing podcast so popular and successful?

And I say, I, well, I can tell you it's not the best

marketing podcast in Australia.

I know that it's just not, there are better marketing podcasts.

However, what I have found, and my mine's a very good marketing podcast,

but there are marketing podcasts that possibly have better information more

detailed information, but I have found the intersection between educating

my listeners around the topic of marketing and entertaining my listeners

so that whatever I am educating them on lands and I don't believe, yeah,

certainly I can't educate a hundred percent of the time, nor do I want to

because I'm not a university professor.

I can't entertain a hundred percent of the time because I'm not a standup

comedian, but if I find that sweet spot between the two and I can put a

smile on my dial, on my dial, if I can put a smile on the dial of my audience

while I'm imparting information.

Then I've won.

So that is my long-winded answer to saying I'm not that interested in developments.

I'm interested in the fundamentals.

. John Ball: Yeah.

And that's great.

I mean, much as in, in marketing.

I know I recently was reading like the, the 2022, I can't remember, the 22

Fundamental Immutable Laws of Marketing.

Immutable Laws of Marketing.

That's it.

And it, it's not a new book.

It's been around a while.

Reis & Trout, it's from 1964 or something,

but the principles are pretty solid.

So even though a lot of the a hundred things that are list mentioned in there

are maybe a bit out to date now and certainly not up to date with the latest

uh, technology and everything else, the principles still work and, and we forget

sometimes how important principles are.

We

do.

Johnny, my 23 year old son, William started as a marketing

coordinator at Junior Marketing Executive in a company just last.

He's been brought on to be a bit of a content creator, a

bit of a social media legend.

Cause he's a he, he's a digital native.

He's 23 years old.

And guess what book I gave him?

The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing from 1960 Bloody Four.

You know, because the fundamentals are the same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean it's much like I, I, one of the books I got a lot of value from

a few years ago when it came out was Ray Dalio's book Principles as well.

Just getting, getting those principles is so much more empowering because

that's guiding your decision.

So rather than being told what to do, you are being given the baseline

information that guides the decision making processes for, for better options.

Much like, I think like most people would benefit from listening and

tuning into and having their own philosophy, and a lot of people don't.

When you have principles that guide you in life, it just makes things, I

think, a lot easier, a lot clearer as well, rather than this opinion, that

opinion, as you said, shiny object here,

shiny object there.

Yep.

Everyone's got an opinion.

I, I do wonder though, I mean, you talk about make, having a

career in podcasting, do you, do you at least think it's easier now to make a

career out of podcasting than it may have been even, even just a few years ago?

That's an interesting question I have I've had success both back in

the day when podcasting wasn't a thing, and I have had success today with

podcasting being well and truly a thing.

I had success early on because it wasn't a very crowded marketplace.

And as long as I was creating great content and I could find a sponsor,

a, in my case, a chief marketing officer or a marketing director from

a company who had heard of podcasts.

Because even back then it was like, have you heard of a podcast?

Have you ever listened to one?

So my job back then was to monetize my podcast, was to find marketing people.

Knew of podcasts and hopefully listened to mine.

And that was an easy sell and there weren't many podcasts to choose from.

So, I wasn't competing in a busy marketplace.

Nowadays, I am competing at a busy marketplace, but there's more

money being thrown at podcasting than there was back then.

So, I, I don't really know the answer to that except to say, Have a go because

I know when I speak at conferences and if I talk about podcasting from

stage or blogging or eBooks or you know, YouTube videos that we should be

creating as business owners, there'll be someone in the audience that says,

ah, there's so much of that out there.

I saw a stat the other day where there's 72 hours.

Footage uploaded to YouTube every minute, and it's like, okay, that

might be a fact, and it might be a fact that six new podcasts come

online every hour of every day.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, it just creates a creative

challenge to make really good content.

You know, that's, that's the challenge.

You know, even I'll, I'll say the same in five years time, when there is 10 times

as many podcasts as there are today, it doesn't mean you shouldn't podcast.

You just gotta make really good content.

And I think that's where people fail.

You know, if, if marketing is made up of medium and message, one of the

marketing fundamentals is identify the medium where the fi, where fish, where

the fish are, and then create messages that attract the fish, create the bait.

And the easy part of that equation is medium.

So in our case, we choose podcasting as the me, our

medium of choice, our challenge.

That's an easy decision.

Our challenge is, what are you gonna say on the podcast

that's gonna be so compelling?

And that's always going to be the challenge.

So, and I don't think enough business owners, whether it'll be talking

podcasting or any marketing, spend enough time on idea generation on sitting back

and, and rubbing their chin and going, what can I create that's gonna be really

compelling and better than everyone else?

And I agree.

There's there's a lot of people seem to be creating content and chucking

it out for the sake of doing it, or even, I guess, paying other people

to create their content and it's not really having that connection because

it's not coming genuinely from them.

And so, you know, there, there are definitely some issues that what in

your mind or in your experience, I said, because you've been creating content

effectively for a long time, what.

Good contents, especially with podcasts.

Content

that the listener wants, number one, they might not know they might

want and needs something different, but first of all, give them what they want.

Yeah.

Now that could be going out and identifying what

questions have your listeners.

That you could solve or provide answers to in a podcast.

One of the things that I encourage everyone to do who is starting a podcast,

and even if you have already got a podcast, I would go back and do this,

and it's called Your Editorial Mission.

Now, the editorial mission was something developed by magazine

publishers many, many, many years ago, and it was simply a way of defining

what's the magazine going to be about?

Well, in the case of the editorial mission for us, it's what's

the podcast going to be about?

And there's three questions to answer.

What have you got to offer to who and what outcome can they expect?

So the editorial mission for the Small Business Big Marketing

podcast, what I have to offer is marketing tips and tricks for who?

Small service-based business owners who are frustrated by.

What outcome can they expect to generate more warm inquiry?

So marketing tips and tricks for small service-based business owners

frustrated about marketing to help them generate more warm inquiry.

Now that I know that it's very easy for me to determine what to talk about on

my podcast from stage in a book that I write, in a blog post, that I write in a

social media post that I put out there.

and it almost Johnny creates a fence.

And inside that fence is all the content that is relevant to your listeners.

And outside of that fence is the stuff that you'll never hear me talk about.

You'll never hear me talk about taxation.

You'll never hear me talk about real estate.

You'll never hear me talk about HR because they're outside of my editorial mission.

And anyone in podcast, anyone who's creating content should I

would say, Complete and get crystal clear on their editorial mission.

And if, if I may take that one step further.

Once you know what your editorial mission is, be very clear on the

personality of your brand and the way you share your knowledge.

So, because that's gonna be your point of difference.

You know, there's a lot of marketing podcasts out there, but again, if

you listen to the Small Business Big Marketing podcast, you'll.

You'll be freaked out occasionally, you'll have a laugh.

You'll be you know, I might upset you from something I say, but, hey, it's me.

And that's my personality.

Like it or lump it because that again, is my point of difference.

And for any other podcaster, it's gonna be their point of difference as well.

You, you may hear a few dad jokes.

I know that for sure after, after having listened to.

I know.

And I,

I, I, I dunno what to do about that.

I get accused of it all the time if someone meets me.

So they always bring up the dad jokes thing.

The reality is I'm a father of three, so I am a, I am a dad.

I do love a joke and you know, I'm from a different century, Johnny, so, you know,

I just have to, you know, like it, or

lump

it.

I think it's part of who you are.

It's part, part of the charm of the show.

I wouldn't do anything about it.

Don't change a thing.

Thank you very much.

But I do wonder, , I do wonder, in, in, in your podcast career, whether you have

ever faced things like the sort of content burnout that people often talk about

as in, geez, what am I gonna, what am I gonna create next?

Is that what you.

Yeah.

That's feeling like like the muse has left the building and and you don't

really know what to do next, or you've feel like you've done everything at Okay.

That post-modern sort of malaise mm-hmm.

there is in terms of content burnout if I ever have a thought that,

geez, who am I going to interview next?

What topic am I going to cover?

It very quickly disappears because even though I have almost 600 episodes under

my belt, it's not really a big number.

When you look at, you know, a, the amount of potential people that I

could interview, B, the amount of opinions that I could share, C,

the amount of exper of amount of experiences that I have day-to-day as a

consumer out in the street and online.

They're always, so the, and these are all content opportunities, right?

So as podcasters in particular, we need to have our content radars on all the time.

A mate of mine was on he had the most popular radio program

in Australia at one point.

And you know, like those radio programs alike, they're all shouting

and they're doing silly things and playing games and competitions.

You know, primetime breakfast or drive radio.

And my friend Jules had the beat, the number one show in Australia.

I said to him once, I said, how do you keep up?

Because, hey, I'm just creating an episode of a week on my podcast.

Whereas he's every night from three till six having to create content,

and he actually simply carries his iPhone around as we all do.

He has voice memos open all the time and every time.

Something happens to him out in the street.

He might what, whatever it may be.

He used the example when he was talking about this, it was actually a

part of an interview I did with him.

He used the example of paying for a ticket at a car park and something weird

happened and he had to push the button to speak to the person on the other end

of the intercom and, He just records that into his voice memo as a reminder

of there is some potential content.

So for him it was like, when was the last time you had to push a

button and speak to a stranger?

You know, call in now.

So my point there is, as content creators as podcasters, we always

need to be on the lookout for content and not freak out when we think,

my goodness, we're gonna run out.

Because what I found too, as you create more content and as you become

more prolific as a podcast, People are gonna be reaching out to you.

PR agencies are gonna send pictures to say, Hey, interview my client.

Listeners are gonna say, Hey, could you cover an episode?

Could you cover this topic on a future episode?

And there's always opportunities for content coming left, right, and center.

Yeah.

I look forward to receiving those kinds of requests from my

own listener, , at some point.

Come on, listeners.

Always,

Johnny's struggling next to know who to interview next.

Oh, no, I'm, I'm all good with that, but I certainly would

like to have some some feedback and some suggestions from people as well.

It's like the audience engaged a bit.

It takes a while.

It does take a while to develop that and to build that up, especially in podcasts.

Well, Johnny, I'll give you a tip, mate.

What I've done on the Small Business Big Marketing podcast

is I have a phone number.

I give out a number and I'm gonna give it out right now and I'll give

out the international version of it because I would love anyone who's heard

me on Johnny's podcast to call me.

The number is plus 6 1 4 0 8 0 0 1 5 1 5 0.

You can call that number now and you can leave up to five minute,

up to a five minute message.

And if I like it, if, well, if I like it and I think it adds value

to my listening audience, then I will play it on an upcoming episode.

Every single episode of my podcast has a voicemail from a lister.

It could be a marketing idea that's working for them.

It could be a commentary on a, an episode that they listened to and

liked and what they liked about it.

It could.

That they don't like my style and I could improve it, whatever it is, ring

me, leave a message and I'll play it.

Because as a podcaster, I wish we could do talkback and in fact, I think

talkback is starting to become possible.

I think even on Riverside fm there is the opportunity for people to call in.

I haven't worked out that technology yet but having that dialogue back and

forth between listeners is wonderful.

Yeah, it is.

The technology is absolutely there for it.

I mean, even with a show like this, we have the capability to have live audience

Now they can't interact verbally, but we can, they can be invited, they can

be given a link to come and to join the studio, but they can, because you can

send the link out, can't you?

On your socials via Riverside where they can log in and they could

be watching us and they could be putting questions through chat.

That's awesome.

Yeah I had a try at doing live stuff with the show for a while

and the only thing I'm reluctant with it is the, and you may notice

this as we're recording, like people who've seen video of this after the

recording will see it's all pretty high quality stuff, but whilst it's

actually live, It's not always so great.

You might see a bit of deterioration in the video and I don't really love putting

out content, but that doesn't look that good as well as video content, and that's

probably my my only real concern with it.

But I do like the idea of having more live interaction, and I hope

that becomes a bigger thing with more podcasts, and I think with services

like Discord, which I'm still trying to figure out and learn, those

capabilities are, are definitely there.

But I love the idea of having a, a phone line that is dedicated for

people being able to come and leave messages about the show and actually

have that verbal interaction.

I think I mean, We could even use, I guess you could even use voice messages

on LinkedIn or something like that.

Just just as well the tech technology is definitely up there and available.

Right.

I I really like that.

I wonder for you, what has been the, whether you feel the podcasting has

played a significant role in your own personal and professional development

over the time that you've been?

Oh, there's no doubt.

I, how can I be specific about that?

I'm very proud of what I've created with the Small Business Big Marketing podcast.

It has taken me well and truly outside my comfort zone, albeit I am, I'm sort

of an introverted extrovert in the sense that I do like my own space and time,

but I like the fact that podcasting Puts me out there, puts my head above

the trench, has created an entire public speaking career that has really,

you know, given me a good lifestyle.

I'm, I'm really, I, I feel very grateful for that.

And again, direct line from being a podcaster to being a popular public speak,

you know, at it, at its peak pre-covid, I was doing about 60 conferences its peak

pre-covid, I was in different countries.

Again, direct line from being a podcaster to doing that, and as a

result of having to step up and become a public speaker, I've then had to

go out and seek a speaking coach.

I've had to go out and study other speakers as I do, I

study other interviewers, so.

Being in that space.

Yeah.

I, I, I feel like it's, it's been awesome for me.

It's been absolutely awesome for me and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I you know, careful what you wish for.

You know, I wanted to be on radio.

Well, I wasn't, I have been subsequently, but I got my own

radio show in the form of a podcast.

Yeah.

What perhaps have been the biggest challenges for you

then in your podcasting?

there are times when you go, is it worth it?

Not because, you know, for no other reason that I've, you know, for me,

I've been doing it for 13 years and it's like, well, and, and it is an,

it's an interesting question that I continue to sort of ask myself.

It's like, well, well when do I stop?

Like, when do I stop?

I joined Australia's biggest podcasting network just just over two years ago.

Which didn't work out for me.

It was the wrong decision.

So there was a sort of bump in the road then, and a moment of contemplation, well,

okay, once my contract's up, do I stop?

But then I went back to my listeners only in, I went back

and thought about my listeners.

I didn't go back to my listeners and asked them, but.

No I can't let them down.

I'm not ready to stop yet.

I haven't covered enough en enough topics.

You know, I feel like there's, I, there's still things that I need to

do in regards to podcasting and so, you know, the journey continues.

I'd like to do some live events.

I'd like to be recording some episodes live.

I'd like to be maybe bringing in some guest co-hosts.

I had a co-host for the first 80 episodes of the Small Business Big Marketing Show.

And Luke, who is still one of my best.

, but after 80 episodes he didn't see the value in it.

You know, so bringing people in and having that, cuz I dunno

about you, you're a single host.

I'm a single host and yeah it's fun.

It's also fun having a co-host to bounce things off and do all that kind of stuff.

But there's plenty of left, there's plenty of left things left to do, Johnny.

Yeah, yeah.

The, the co-host stuff has been on my mind a bit recently too.

And I did do my very first show and one of my earlier shows with

a friend, a very good friend of mine, who was my co-host for that.

And it was, it was fun.

I know she's not able to commit to coming back to being a co-host, but yeah, the,

just being able to have that, I think it increases the chemistry of the show.

And you've got someone who you have such a deep level rapport with, and

then you invite maybe another guest on to come and connect with that rapport.

Yes.

That's already going on is is, is quite powerful I think.

No, I, I like it on other podcasts as well.

If, if there are podcasters listening to this or people who

wanna start a podcast and they're considering the co-host format.

All I would say to that is make sure that your co-host is very different

to you because it's very uninteresting listening to two people who agree with,

who agree with each other all the time.

If it's a yes fest.

I, I think that's just really boring listening.

So for me, Luke, who is my co-host for the first 80 episodes, He's, he

was and continues to be everything.

I'm not, he's very considered, he's, he likes to get under the bonnet of

the various aspects of marketing.

You know, how do face, how does Google ads work?

How do Facebook ads work?

How's SEO work?

And, and I sort of, I absolutely want to explore that, but I'm much more

interested in the birds' eye macro view when I'm talking to a business owner.

It.

Where'd the idea come from?

How did you get it to market?

Was there a moment in time when you found yourself in the fetal position

rocking back and forth because you thought you'd made a mistake?

So between the two of us, Luke is asking the detailed stuff.

I'm asking the sort of bird's eye macro stuff that's interesting.

And if you're both going down the same path, it's less interesting.

Yeah.

I, I wonder for you, I know personally I have found some unexpected benefits

in the podcast world both from being a guest on other people's

shows and from having my own show.

And I wonder if you found the same,

Unexpected better?

Totally.

I mean, I wrote, I've written a whole book on it.

You can see it behind me.

The Boomerang Effect.

The Boomerang Effect is an effect that I sort of came up with, which

basically says, The more effort you put into your, the marketing of your

personal brand or your business, the more it will return multiples.

Boomerang is being sticks that our indigenous people threw that

came back, return themselves to the person who threw it.

And you know, so I've absolutely found that.

So for me, my boomerang effect with starting a podcast was, yeah, I

built an audience, I built a strong personal brand within the small

business community in Australia.

I've developed a speaking.

I've had a lot of media opportunities, whether they be interviews on

radio or TV or other people's podcasts or articles in magazines.

I've had the opportunity to write a book.

I've had so many incredible things happen as a direct result, and my boomerang

effect will be different to your boomerang effect will be different to.

The next person's.

But you need to put faith in that because as business owners listening to this,

thinking of starting a podcast, if you do it right, you'll get more sales.

That's sort of like, that's a ticket to the game.

That's That's base one.

Yeah.

But if you get it really right, other things will happen.

You'll be positioned as a thought leader in your industry.

You'll be asked to appear on panels at conferences, you'll.

, you know, you'll be someone that people d defer to for

opinions and whatever it may be.

So I find that really exciting.

Do, do you think then that there's a lot of value in, especially if

it's gonna be a business related podcast, or especially if you're gonna make it your

business in starting a, not necessarily starting perfect, but at least starting as

well as you can, being well prepared for.

Yeah.

Look, I, yes.

I mean, if I look back at episode one, other small business, big marketing

podcast, it's slightly embarrassing, but hey, I didn't know any better.

I was just having a crack and, you know, there's been a, a steady, I

would say not, it's not a straight line improvement because every now

and then I've fallen back to bad old ways and there'll be times when,

geez, I've just gotta get a show out.

But, you know, Didn't have the equipment.

I might have been traveling, but Johnny, I've done, I've done episodes.

In a wardrobe under my duna in the business class cabin of an Etihad

plane departing from the Middle East.

I've done it on the shores of a Fijian island with a security guard standing

behind me wondering what I was doing.

You know, you just have to roll with the punches and you know, you just,

you, you create and get through these challenges, however best you can, but,

I think you do just need to start to your, to your question you know, you've

gotta have reasonably good audio.

I don't like to put pressure on people who are thinking of starting

a podcast, but, you know, a ticket to the game would be good audio,

because again, you've gotta remember people are listening to a podcast,

they're on the road, so they're dealing with road noise.

They could be on a train or a tram or a bus dealing with that noise.

They could be in the gym dealing with that noise.

So our audio that we deliver really has to be able to cut through all that.

So, you know, getting that right.

But it's like anything, if you wait for perfection, you will never start.

So you may as well just get productive and start.

Yeah, I, I definitely don't believe in starting perfect, but I, you

know, you certainly don't need all the best equipment, but it's worth having some

basic equipment and most people have got.

At least some basic microphone.

And I do generally recommend not to use like internal

computer microphones and stuff.

They're not great.

No.

And even phone microphones, they can be okay, but you, you have to test it and

see ultimately, but you need to make sure that you are at least listenable

for, for the duration of doing that.

But having a bit of a plan of action and remembering that just as much as with

any social media content that you put out is representing you and your brand.

So make sure you're happy with what you're putting out.

There's representing Sure, yeah, that's right for it.

And I think if does, doesn't matter if it's not perfect, just, just

make sure that it's like, it's not pulling you down when you put it out.

It's like, have a few practice trials, but first by all means, but

don't don't put out bad content.

It's not, that's the worst thing.

Worst thing you can do.

. I want to if you okay for a few more minutes.

I would just like to ask you, I know you've written a book yourself,

but I wonder if there are any other books or resources that you would

recommend people to check out.

Maybe they relate to marketing, personal development, or principles that we talked

about earlier, but what would be your book recommendations other than your own book?

The Boomerang Effect.

I am gonna turn around and look at my business bookshelf right now.

I certainly would recommend the Boomerang Effect, which you can get

at small business big marketing.com.

But what business book do I go back to?

A lot, I'm just looking at them now.

Not a big reader of business books.

Cause I sort of, when I do find time to read, it's generally fictional.

That's a really interesting question because there are so many, you know,

the one I'm gonna Okay, got it.

I.

The War of Art, Stephen Press, I think Stephen Pressfield is the author of that.

It is an awesome book.

The War of Art is for any content creator.

Any artist who wants to create something special but is full of procrastination,

is full of block artists, block painters, block, whatever you want to call it.

And it's just a beautifully, it's a beautifully written book.

, it's sort of fictional in nature.

It's not a, it's not like a classic business book.

You'll read it in a day and you'll probably reread it four or five

times and just have it handy for when you're procrastinating the war of art.

It's a fantastic, fantastic book.

Yeah, great.

A great recommendation.

I just, one final question then.

What, what's the, what's the wisest advice you've ever received?

Don't look into the sun during a total ec.

That was pretty good advice.

A little

Yes, it is.

It is good advice.

That again, you know, something that comes to mind immediately.

I did an episode about six years ago on the Small Business Big marketing podcast,

and it was with, and it was at a time when I was really wanting to take my

interviewing skills to the next level.

You know, I realized that, hey, I've been interviewing for a

while now and I really enjoy.

I really enjoy extracting stories from people.

I really enjoy making people feel comfortable so that they can

share what they want to share.

And I knew I wasn't the best at it and I wanted to get a lot better at it.

So I thought, who's the best interviewer in Australia than

I could get connect with?

And there was a fellow by the name of Richard Stubbs, and he had a, an

afternoon show on ABC Radio in Australia, and he was a great storyteller.

He was able to put a smile on your face.

He was fantastic with his guests.

And I approached him.

I reached out to him and I said, Richard, I'd love you to come

in and be a guest on my podcast.

It's a marketing podcast and Richard by Trade is actually a standup comedian.

So it was a bit weird to have a standup comedian and a radio host on

a small business marketing podcast.

But I said, the reason I want to have you on is I want you to come.

Into the studio, and from the minute you open the door, I'll have record on and

I want to interview you about your life and how you've gone about interviewing.

But I want you to constructively feed back to me in real time.

Every time I do something good, but particularly every time I do

something bad or I could do it better.

So there is an episode of my podcast in which Richard does that, and for me it was

incredibly It was probably a very selfish interview cause it was all about me, but

I hoped it helped other people who were wanting to hone their interview skills.

And the one thing he said, Johnny, that really caught my

attention amongst many things.

Actually, the two things I'm gonna give you two, number one is listen.

As podcasters, we think we are there to talk.

We're actually there to listen.

And the less talk you do.

Yeah.

Better.

And you only need to watch Michael Parkinson from the bbc from Yeah.

He was on the BBC with, you know, part that famous, famous

Talkback TV show of years gone by.

He was incredibly economical with his words.

He really didn't talk much at all and let his guests do all the talking.

So that's really important.

And the otherwise bit of advice that Richard gave me was to

always lead with your best stuff.

So when you are creating content and you know that a guest has done

something amazing, don't wait.

The second half of the interview to get to that lead with it, cuz that's

gonna hold people and people are gonna be go leaning in and they're

gonna be going, wow, that's amazing.

That's amazing.

And they're gonna hang around for more.

Whereas if, you know, as the interviewer that there's something good coming up, but

no one else does, then you're gonna lose your audience unless you can do hooks.

You know, don't forget coming up.

Richard's gonna talk to us about such and such.

But yeah, that there were two good bits of advice that.

Oh yeah, that's definitely something I need to get better at.

Well, I re I really want to go and listen to that episode now.

You've you've hooked my interest to go good listening to more of your show.

And I definitely would recommend anyone who's listening to this

go and check out the show.

So much.

Good advice.

And as you do with podcasts, you know, people that think, oh, you go and listen

to the latest show, not necessarily find the shows that you like, find

the topics that you're interested in.

That's what exactly what I do with any podcast that I go and listen to.

And that's one of.

One quick lesson we leave for everyone to make sure you have good episode titles.

If you can have a podcast that actually let people know what they're about.

It took me a while to figure that one out.

But tim, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today.

I've learned a lot.

I know anyone listening to this show has also learned from you too, and

hope they were gonna check out your show and your book and and I hope we

get to connect again in the future.

It's been an absolute pleasure.

Tim Reid, thank you for being guest.

Johnny.

Good on you, Johnny.

I appreciate your words.

My, my podcast, but also well done to you for creating a podcast

about podcasting to help others embrace what is an awesome medium.

It's a medium that's growing.

It's a medium that can be incredible for your personal brand, for your

business brands, and it's a lot of fun.

So, make it a hobby.

Thanks so much, Johnny.

Absolutely.

Thank

you.

If you will allow me to be your podcast sommelier for a moment.

This episode, pairs very nicely with a glass of Spanish rioja, and also with

episode 132 of Podfluence with Alex San Felipo from Pod Match on how to create

business success through podcasts.

Now after having listened to the episode, are you able to answer the

three key editorial questions that Tim posed in this episode for your

show or even for your business?

If there's only one thing that you do and take away from this episode, make

sure it's that you can answer them and that you are happy with the answers.

I definitely encourage you to check out the Small Business Big Marketing podcast.

It's a lot of fun.

And if you get in contact with Tim, let him know you

heard him first on Podfluence.

If you want to become a top 1% podcast guest and have your pod

fluence, download my free ebook now so you can start building authority,

following and profits from podcast guesting in less than an hour.

All you have to do is click the link in the show notes.

A special shout out this week to Kevin Chemidlin from Grow The

Show for all the help he continues to provide podcasters like me in

improving and monetizing their shows.

Any improvements regular listeners may have noticed in recent

episodes are thanks to Kevin and his podcast accelerator program.

I can't recommend following him highly enough.

Do go and check out Kevin.

If you are serious, if you are looking to turn your podcast into a business,

then you wanna take a look at Kevin's Grow the show podcast accelerator.

That's it for this week.

Wherever you're going, wherever you're doing, have an amazing rest of your day.