Learning to Thrive Beyond Pornography use was the greatest challenge of our life and marriage. It had rocked my self confidence, tainted all of the most important experiences of my life and become the most impossible challenge I had.

With this podcast or at https://www.zachspafford.com you'll learn about the struggle, how to overcome pornography use, and where to find additional resources to begin to thrive beyond pornography with your spouse.

At some point I took a step away from all the 12 step meetings and councilors and started to figure out my own brain, to look at my issue as something that I had the answer to and I was going to figure it out. Here I share those lessons and give you the power to start your own journey free. Whether you struggle with unwanted pornography use or are the spouse or partner, whether you feel stuck or just don't know where to start, here I will teach you principles, tools and skills that you can use today to change how you think and, in the end, what you do.

You'll hear interviews with my spouse, with experts on human sexuality and with former and current pornography users on how you can overcome your own struggle with addictive behavior.

The Thrive Beyond Pornography podcast will bring new perspective to your struggle and keep you coming back to improve all aspects of your life. (formerly, The Self Mastery Podcast: Overcome Pornography Forever)

Episode 222

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Darcy Spafford: Hey everyone. Welcome to Thrive Beyond Pornography. I'm Darcy and Zach's also here. So anyways, that's kind of awkward. I podcast, but we're just, we're just going to leave it. And you guys can laugh at me and make fun of me. It's, it's all good today.

Darcy Spafford: We're going to talk about. Labeling things as good and bad and how maybe it's not as helpful as we might think it is. And that's what we're going to do. But before we get into today's podcast, here's a message from your sponsor.

Zach Spafford: I just want to remind you that if you are looking for a holistic way to help your relationship grow, to put porn behind you and to heal any of the hurt that has been created within your relationship because of porn, go to zachspafford.

Zach Spafford: com slash free call and watch the free video there and set up a free conversation. We would love to meet with you. We would love to start this conversation. We would love for you to get the help that you need, the tools that you're looking for, the support that you've not been able to find elsewhere and learn from the experience that nobody else has.

Zach Spafford: So if you have been listening to this podcast and you're ready to get started, you're ready to do something new, go to zachspafford. com slash free call and get started today.

Darcy Spafford: Amen. The reason why this podcast came to my mind today was because a client in our client portal made a comment under one of our videos called What is Pornography? And, uh, she mentioned that it's, uh, to her that it's awful, degrading, Disgusting.

Darcy Spafford: Disgusting. Vile. And Immoral and that got my brain kind of thinking about how it is that we label things in our lives and how those labels may or may not be as helpful as we want them to be. So, that is what we're going to talk about today.

Zach Spafford: In the challenging endeavor of quitting unwanted pornography, a lot of us grapple with the consequences of adopting simplistic labeling systems.

Zach Spafford: What we do is we categorize things as good or bad. And this practice is something that shares a lot of common approaches within dieting where we often label foods as good or bad.

Darcy Spafford: And if anybody's ever been on a diet, once we start to label food in this way, right, we start to label it as good and bad, those bad foods somehow become more attractive, more enticing.

Darcy Spafford: It's basically what we think about constantly, right? Those bad foods that we're not supposed to eat are always on our mind. And when we do decide to engage with those quote unquote bad foods, it is often followed by feelings of, regret, guilt, shame, like beating ourselves up. Sometimes it can even be some level of self hatred, all of those things.

Darcy Spafford: Because we're, we begin to be disappointed in that we didn't live up to what it was that we set up to

Zach Spafford: do. And I think we think of these labels as helpful, right? If we tell our kids, this is bad, that is good. These are good things to do. These are bad things to do. We think that this binary classification can be helpful to give us a guide as to how we engage in the world.

Zach Spafford: But the reality is, is this actually proves pretty counterproductive and detrimental to the overall goal of eliminating or overcoming a habit.

Darcy Spafford: Today, we're going to be exploring the reasons why the practice of labeling things as good or bad or disgusting or beautiful, whether it's in the context of dieting or quitting porn or whatever it is that we're trying to change, can be unhelpful and suggest a more nuanced approach for a more effective and sustainable journey towards change, towards what it is that we're working to achieve in our lives.

Zach Spafford: So let's start by understanding that adopting a nonjudgmental perspective involves consciously changing the way you think and speak about yourself and your experiences.

Zach Spafford: Let's start with some practical tips for cultivating a nonjudgmental mindset through the language that we use and self talk that we offer ourselves.

Darcy Spafford: So, One of the things that you can begin to work on is mindfulness, and in our minds, we think mindfulness, and we're like, woo woo, that's weird, we don't want to do it, right? But I can promise you, if you can begin to practice these skills that It will create positive change in your life, and it will help you develop awareness of your thoughts and reactions.

Darcy Spafford: Of what's going on for you without creating that immediate judgment. Mindfulness allows you to observe your thoughts without getting entangled in them, right? So often when, we have thoughts, we oftentimes will grab onto them and hold on for dear life and just believe everything they say and go with the flow.

Darcy Spafford: And, and oftentimes it doesn't lead us to where it is that we want to go.

Zach Spafford: So when you're describing your experiences or your behaviors, choose neutral and descriptive language. Instead of labeling actions as good or bad, what you want to do is describe the actual thing that's happening in as objective a language as possible.

Darcy Spafford: Without attaching a bunch of moral judgment to it, moral values, right? And that's not to say that we don't have morals or anything like that, right? That's not what we're saying. But This is a skill that will help you get to where you want to be, and part of doing that is getting rid of that moral judgment, that self, self judgment, so that you can address things objectively

Zach Spafford: and directly.

Zach Spafford: Choosing neutral and descriptive language instead of labeling actions as good or bad serves several important purposes, one of which is to contribute to a healthier and more constructive mindset. What you want to do is understand that. While we're not setting aside our morals in a, in a permanent way, what we're doing is we're saying the morals are the guide to where I want to go, but how I get there is about dealing with the thing that's in front of me directly.

Darcy Spafford: So using neutral language, uh, will help you to begin to distance yourself from that harsh self judgment. And when actions are labeled as bad, it often leads us to feeling very guilty. It creates a lot of shame and it makes us feel like we're inadequate and those feelings never drive the kind of results that it is that we want in life.

Darcy Spafford: Neutral language allows for a more objective evaluation of the behavior that we're engaging with without immediately assigning moral values.

Zach Spafford: Using neutral language promotes a more reflective and analytical approach to your actions, and it actually allows you to consider the context and the motives and the consequences of your behavior without being overwhelmed by a sense of moral failure.

Zach Spafford: One of the things that I see a lot of times with my clients is they're trying to move away from the moment as quickly as possible. And the reason they're doing that is because If they stay there, they feel like a failure they feel like, in my life, the person that I'm being is not the person I expect myself to be, or the person that I present to others.

Zach Spafford: So if I can move away from this quickly, then, mentally and emotionally, I don't have to deal with that anymore. But what we're trying to do here is stay in the moment, stay close to the, to the issue, and instead of beating ourselves up in that moment, Use the language of description to help us understand why it is that we chose this behavior.

Darcy Spafford: When we can describe our actions objectively, it enables us to focus on learning from our experiences. And instead of dwelling on a perceived moral shortcoming, you can begin to identify the areas of improvement that you need and develop strategies for change that will foster personal growth and, and really help you get to where it is that you want to be.

Darcy Spafford: An example for my life, if I, I have an experience where I get frustrated with my kids. Maybe I raise my voice. If I, after that encounter, if I just think about, Oh, I'm a bad mom. I can't believe I got, I lost my patience with them. I got mad. I yelled or whatever it is that you do.

Darcy Spafford: I can. Instead of creating all that self judgment, I can look at it and go, okay, why was it that that triggered those feelings inside of me? What was it that was going on in that situation where I felt that I needed to respond in that way? And oftentimes if we really dig into it, you can begin to see, oh, like I can see how that was kind of triggering because my kids weren't listening and I felt like nobody values me.

Darcy Spafford: Nobody cares to You no one respects me, right? And those feelings created the emotion that then came out.

Zach Spafford: And embracing that neutral language really helps you align with the principles of a growth mindset, which emphasize the belief that abilities and the intelligence that we need can be developed over time by avoiding fixed judgments, we as individuals are more likely to see challenges as opportunities for learning.

Zach Spafford: And improvement instead of keeping you stuck. And this is that mental flexibility that we all need to engage in the world and become a better part of it.

Darcy Spafford: Let's dig into enhancing emotional well being. Neutral language contributes to improved emotional well being by reducing the emotional intensity associated with our moral judgments, right? It allows individuals to approach their experiences with a level of detachment, making it easier to manage emotions and respond more rationally.

Zach Spafford: Let me give you a couple of examples of using neutral language around overcoming unwanted porn.

Zach Spafford: Start by just kind of thinking about any of the things that you might say to yourself when you choose porn outside of your value structure.

Zach Spafford: So if you're viewing porn and you're like, Nah, I'm not, that's not part of the life that I want to live. What are the things that you say to yourself? One of the things that might come up is, I'm a bad person for watching porn. You might. Say that, and you might think that, and you might believe that. What you'll want to do is you'll want to just look at the circumstance and describe it objectively.

Zach Spafford: You might say to yourself, I'm a bad person for watching porn. And in that space, that feels bad, you're down on yourself, maybe you feel guilty or a little bit ashamed. Instead, you might start to address that in more neutral language. "I've engaged in the behavior of viewing naked people having sex. I'm working on changing that habit. I'm learning from what happened."

Zach Spafford: instead of thinking," I'm a failure for relapsing," you might say, "I've viewed people on a screen engaging in sexual activity. I'm going to focus on understanding the triggers and developing strategies to, to deal with them directly in the future."

Darcy Spafford: Another one that a lot of our clients, when they come to us, think is, "I'm addicted to porn." Another way that you could rephrase this that would be more neutral is, I've struggled with patterns of frequent porn consumption and I'm seeking support to manage and change this behavior. And

Zach Spafford: you don't have to do that.

Zach Spafford: You don't have to be perfect at this. This is, you know, work, noodle it. Sometimes you'll be more neutral. Sometimes you'll be less neutral. But as you go through that, what you're doing is you're trying to work at becoming more neutral overall, rather than saying you're going to get perfect at this because you don't have to.

Darcy Spafford: A non judgmental perspective fosters resilience by encouraging you to really view your setbacks as a temporary struggle, as a, As something that is not insurmountable, right? It helps you navigate difficulties with a positive and solution oriented mindset instead of spending so much time in that negative frame.

Zach Spafford: And this is partly something that you can carry into discussions with other people, you know, as you're improving the communication that you have around this. And if you're having a conversation with your spouse or with your friends or with people that you trust to discuss this with, as you neutralize your language, you're going to start to have a much more constructive communication

Darcy Spafford: with others.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah, the more neutral we can be in this, when we're having discussions with our partner, the more likely we are to be able to collaborate with our partner. And the more, um, open our partner is going to be to have these conversations instead of. You know, evoking defensiveness and feelings of inadequacy in our partner, right?

Darcy Spafford: Our goal is to be able to have open communication around this and, and the more neutral we can create, um, our language to be, the more likely it is that we will be able to have these conversations.

Zach Spafford: And I think the other thing that happens with that is not only do you improve the communication, but you encourage compassion for yourself and for your spouse, for your partner.

Zach Spafford: You know, neutral language aligns with the principles of self compassion. And they allow you to treat yourself with kindness and understanding as well as your spouse. And this recognizes that everyone faces challenges and makes mistakes. And what we're doing here is we're promoting self love and self acceptance.

Zach Spafford: Not that We want to stay here, but that we accept you as who you are, and that we love you as you grow.

Darcy Spafford: And that we are working towards where it is that we want to go, right? Which is living a life that's more in line with our values. I, I think sometimes when people hear us, it's like, you know, thinking of accepting or self love and self compassion, right?

Darcy Spafford: Oftentimes, we want to feel like, well, if we don't beat ourselves up about it, if we don't really create a lot of high emotions around it, then we're not going to change this. Um, but if you look at studies around this, the more likely you are to, if we look at studies around this, you are more likely to create change if you can have self compassion, if you can love yourself and accept yourself for where you are.

Darcy Spafford: you go back to that phrase, " hurt people hurt people." And people who feel horrible often choose things to feel better in that moment, and that's not where it is that we want to go long term.

Zach Spafford: The next thing that you're going to do when you foster this, this more neutral language in your conversations is that you're going to replace these fixed judgments about yourself, and you're going to start to see a more nuanced and adaptable perspective for yourself. As well as those around you.

Zach Spafford: Which gives you, again, that mental flexibility to address the issues as they come up.

Zach Spafford: So the next thing we want to talk about is replacing negative labels.

Zach Spafford: And as you think about this, you want to start to identify the negative self labels that you have and replace them with more neutral or even positive ones. Now. I want you to be clear about this. This isn't toxic positivity where all of a sudden you go from I suck to I'm amazing and nothing can get me down.

Zach Spafford: That's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is just being as realistic as possible while still being as neutral as possible. So instead of saying I'm a failure, You might say, today I chose pornography and that was challenging because it isn't in line with who I want to be and I want to learn from that and I'm going to choose to learn from that instead of running from it or instead of beating myself up over it.

Darcy Spafford: When we can reframe negative self labels with a more neutral, um, and positive terms, it's a powerful practice in overcoming unwanted pornography because it, it really does begin to create a situation where You can love yourself and accept yourself for where you are and, and create the positive change that you want.

Darcy Spafford: So

Zach Spafford: another example of this might be, "I'm a pervert or I'm gross." a way you might reframe that statement is, "I'm struggling with the behavior that I'm choosing, but I'm also actively working on understanding it and changing it."

Darcy Spafford: Another one could be, "I'm disgusting for watching that, or even my partner's disgusting for watching that." And a way you could reframe that is, I engaged in a behavior I'm not proud of, and now I'm committed to making healthier choices moving forward. Or my partner engaged in a behavior that I don't like, but I can still choose to love and support them and help them on their journey moving forward.

Zach Spafford: Another negative self label might be, "I'm weak and I can't control myself." And as you reframe that, what you might want to see is, "I'm facing challenges at this moment, but I'm also looking at those challenges directly so I can develop strategies to better manage myself in those difficult moments."

Darcy Spafford: Another one could be, I'm a failure for relapsing, right? I think, All of us have felt that way, whether, whatever our goal is that we're trying to reach, when we don't reach it in the time that we want to, or in the way that we think we should, or that other people think we should, right, we feel like a failure.

Darcy Spafford: And a way you can reframe that is, "I experienced a setback, but setbacks are a natural part of our journey. And I can learn from this and continue moving forward." Another one is, "I'm so messed up. I'll never change, right? I'm broken." A way you can reframe that is, "I recognize I have areas to work on, but I'm capable of change and growth over time."

Darcy Spafford: You know, a

Zach Spafford: lot of this really is about radical self acceptance. Just that sense of, I'm not here to beat myself up. I'm here to accept what's, what's going on in my life so I can actually address it. Because without that, we tend to, we tend to move towards it self flagellation, just punching yourself in the face, trying to be like, if I hit myself hard enough, if I'm mean enough to myself, then I'll stop doing this.

Zach Spafford: And I don't think that's ever really the goal. I think the goal is to replace that harsh self judgment with statements that acknowledge the challenge, emphasize learning and growth, and then foster a positive mindset, creating that mental flexibility. And as I think about this, this reframing really contributed in our relationship to significantly more compassionate conversations, significantly more constructive approach to overcoming unwanted porn.

Zach Spafford: And it put us in a, in a different position to address the whole as a couple, rather than what really I think was happening a lot was like, it was me against you. And when we stopped having that me against you, a lot of that negative framing went away.

Darcy Spafford: Yeah.

Darcy Spafford: Another way that you can think about this is treat yourself with the same kindness and understanding you would offer to a friend facing a similar situation, right? Acknowledge that everyone makes mistakes and experiences setbacks, no matter who you are, no matter how amazing the person is.

Darcy Spafford: Everybody sucks sometimes. That's just the reality of life. And as much as we wish it wasn't that way, that's it. Because we are human and part of the human experience is making mixed mistakes and moving forward from them. Yeah.

Zach Spafford: So one example might be after a period of time where you didn't choose porn, if it was a week, if it was a day, if it was a month, if it was a year, if it was two years, whatever it was.

Zach Spafford: One of the things that often comes to mind for people is, I can't believe I messed up. I'm so weak. I'm undisciplined. I'll never be able to overcome. And that, that mind frame, that meaning frame that we put together, that's really not very kind to ourselves. And what you might try is the understanding, I had a setback, and that's disheartening.

Zach Spafford: Setbacks are part of the journey. I'm a human. Everyone faces challenges. I'm gonna learn from this. And I'm going to use this experience to strengthen the way that I approach this problem going forward.

Darcy Spafford: Another situation could be when you're feeling overwhelmed by temptation. Your thought might be in that moment, "Why can't I control myself? This is pathetic. I should be able to resist these urges. I should be so much further along than this. I shouldn't have these kind of temptations, right? In a kind way". And a more understanding way that you, could, view this situation is "I'm facing a difficult moment and it's okay to find it difficult.

Darcy Spafford: We all have difficult moments. Temptation is a natural part of this process and it doesn't define my worth.

Darcy Spafford: I can take a deep breath and I can remind myself of my commitment and explore strategies to navigate through this moment. In both of these examples, the emphasis is really just on acknowledging the challenge, right? Acknowledging that life is hard, that situations can be challenging without harshly judging ourselves.

Darcy Spafford: It involves recognizing the commonalities and setbacks and difficulties, and it encourages you to treat yourself with empathy and approach the situation with a mindset of learning and growth, rather than of negative self talk. The kinder and more understanding our self talk can be, the more likely we are to foster resilience and contribute lasting change and growth and positive dialogue, both inside our minds and, and with our partner and how we communicate.

Zach Spafford: Yeah. And as you think about today's episode, I want you to understand that your job here is to cultivate a nonjudgmental perspective. That's not going to happen overnight.

Zach Spafford: And in this journey to overcome pornography, it's crucial to reflect on the transformative power of language and self talk. The practice of choosing neutral and descriptive language, free from harsh judgments, is not merely linguistic, but it's a profound mindset change. By reframing negative self labels, adopting self compassion, and treating ourselves with the kindness that we would extend to a friend, we get to pave the way for resilience and growth and lasting change.

Darcy Spafford: Remember, this is a gradual process, right? It requires consistent effort and self reflection. This isn't an overnight like, okay, I listened to this podcast and now I'm just going to be able to do this perfectly. It requires consistent practice.

Darcy Spafford: As you navigate your path towards understanding and self acceptance, you will begin to make small incremental changes that will get you to where it is that you want to be in the long run. And just remember, it's not a sprint.

Darcy Spafford: Your relationship is not just an aspiration. It's a journey and every step forward, no matter how small, is a testament to your resilience and your commitment. And, and so often we think that it's got to be big leaps, but those small incremental steps create lasting huge change over a period of time.

Zach Spafford: Yeah, it's that 1 percent shift.

Zach Spafford: And this is just a tiny thing. And the more you're willing to put the time in to do this, making a new habit, a new way of doing the things that you're doing, it's going to start to create a snowball effect. We don't have to be perfect, but if we keep doing one thing 1 percent better Every day, we're going to start to see enormous shifts over time.

Zach Spafford: And if you're ready to get started on that, if you're ready to get a little bit of a push to do that, go to zachspafford.com/freecall. Watch the video there, set up a free conversation with Darcy and I. We'd love to meet with you. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.