Welcome to the Accounting Talent Podcast, dropping every Thursday to accounting professionals, finance specialists, software vendors, tech providers and influencers in the accountancy, CPA and bookkeeping space. To participate in our international virtual speed networking events for the accounting community, go to https://accountinginfluencers.com/events and book your place at the next gathering. Great to build your personal brand and make valuable industry connections.

On this episode of The Accounting Talent Podcast, host Rob Brown is joined by Jeff Phillips, CEO of Padgett Business Services and founder of AccountingFly, to dive into the alarming talent shortage facing the accounting profession. Statistics reveal around 300,000 fewer accountants and auditors in the US over the past two years, a staggering 17% drop. The root cause? A weak value proposition from the profession, offering less attractive compensation, flexibility, and work-life balance compared to industries like tech. This perception is driving college students away from accounting towards seemingly greener pastures in investment banking, consulting, and tech firms.

Accounting firms face intense competition for talent, not just from each other but from aggressive employers in other sectors with enticing perks and career paths. However, there is hope. By rethinking their value propositions, exploring untapped talent pools like offshoring, remote work, freelancers, and developing innovative hiring/training approaches, firms can regain their appeal to the next generation of accountants. The profession's future hinges on its ability to revamp its employer branding and talent strategies.

"The accounting profession is not going to die. It's not going to wither on the vine. There is lots of talent out there and there are options and hope." - Jeff Phillips

Key Takeaways:

1. There is a shortage of accounting talent, with around 300,000 fewer accountants and auditors in the United States over the last two years, representing a 17% loss. [00:11:50]

2. The accounting profession is facing a brand and value proposition problem, as the compensation, flexibility, and work-life balance are perceived as weak compared to other industries like tech. [00:04:30]

3. College students are choosing alternative career paths like investment banking, consulting, and tech companies, which are seen as more attractive than "boring old accounting." [00:14:55]

4. Accounting firms are not just competing with each other for talent but also with more aggressive employers in other industries, offering better perks and career paths. [00:16:50]

5. There are solutions and untapped talent pools that accounting firms can explore, such as offshoring, remote work, freelancers, and non-traditional hiring and training approaches. [00:20:30]

You can watch this episode and more on our YouTube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SRPUQ5V_18

Join the Accounting Influencers community and get invitations to our international speed networking events to build your personal brand and network in the accounting, finance and tech world: https://www.linkedin.com/company/accountinginfluencers

Thanks to our sponsors:

ACCOUNTINGFLY. Accountingfly connects employers with top U.S.-based accounting talent through a variety of services including dedicated searches, Always-On Recruiting, and freelance placements for seasonal or temporary needs. They specialize in remote accounting recruitment, recognizing early on the significant advantages that remote work offers to employers, job-seekers, and their own operations. They pride themselves on their track record of matching the right candidates with the right opportunities and building a robust team of industry experts. Additionally, their partnership with Going Concern—an esteemed source for accounting news and insights—further enhances their ability to stay on the cutting edge of remote recruiting by tapping into a natural pipeline of job seekers.

If you'd like to sponsor the show and elevate your brand with our audience, reach out to show host Rob Brown on LinkedIn and his team will reach out to fix up a chat to explore.

This is the "Accounting Talent Podcast" with Rob Brown.

2

I'm wondering if accounting is

going to die because we haven't

3

got enough talent and that the

profession is withering on the vine.

4

Jeff Phillips, do you have the answers?

5

Jeff Phillips: The accounting

profession is not going to die, Rob.

6

It's not going to wither on the

7

Rob Brown: are

8

Jeff Phillips: and hope.

9

Rob Brown: going to go into that today.

10

It's wonderful to have you on.

11

You're joining me as a co

host for a few episodes.

12

Now, Jeff, do you want to just

introduce yourself for the audience?

13

Because I've got a real live talent expert

on here that does this for a living.

14

So tell us what you do.

15

Rob, I'm the CEO of Paget.

16

We are a US based

17

tax and accounting franchise with

over 300 offices in North America.

18

So on one hand, I run an accounting firm,

19

but prior to that I founded

Accountingfly, which is a boutique.

20

Recruitment company, about 12 years

old now, and we match CPAs with

21

CPA firms and accounting teams

22

with a twist.

23

We only place US based remote

accountants into those employers.

24

I guess I've been involved with over a

thousand hires over the past 12 years.

25

Uh, so,

26

I have learned a lot about

hiring, keeping talent, um,

27

through a lot of trial and

error over, over, over a decade.

28

Thank you.

29

Well, it's great to have you with us

because over the next few months, we're

30

going to be going into a lot of the

challenges and threats to accounting

31

and diving into where the shortages

are coming from and what is going on.

32

But we're also going to be bringing some

hope, Jeff, aren't we, that there are

33

solutions to this, working solutions,

practical solutions that firms can

34

implement to bring that talent into the

firm and get the growth that they want.

35

So a little bit of hope's

a good thing, isn't it?

36

there

37

Jeff Phillips: Our value

proposition needs work

38

Rob Brown: And there are

some labor market issues,

39

but firm owners, partners,

CFOs have so many options

40

that they may not be aware of that they

can deploy and we're seeing it play out,

41

Rob, on a daily basis, both at my firm

and And also at my staffing company.

42

Jeff Phillips: company.

43

Rob Brown: So in this episode, we're

gonna outline the problem and, uh, talk

44

about the staffing shortage in accounting.

45

I want, I'm gonna ask you in a moment.

46

Why is there a problem, Jeff?

47

But just for the audience, we're going

to put two articles in the show notes.

48

One is from the Fast Company

and another is from shrm.

49

org.

50

And these point to the talent shortage

with numbers, with statistics.

51

And they are one or two years old, but

it's more prevalent now than it was.

52

So let's dive into that.

53

Why is there a problem with

talent in accounting, Jeff?

54

Proposition

55

Jeff Phillips: Our value proposition needs

56

Rob Brown: Rob.

57

Jeff Phillips: Rob.

58

Um,

59

Rob Brown: by that I mean what

the value proposition, the

60

profession is offering talent.

61

And on a firm by firm basis,

decisions need to be made about, um,

62

how to change that value proposition.

63

So right now I categorize it as weak

64

and it's

65

not supported well by the fact that, um,

we do have fewer people in the profession

66

than we have had in the

67

past.

68

That doesn't mean it's,

69

it's, it doesn't mean that it's,

uh, it's a lost cause at all.

70

It just means you've got

to change your tactics.

71

Well,

72

what is the talent value proposition?

73

If I was being really cynical, it

is, join the accounting profession,

74

work 70 hours, 80 hours a week in

a dark room locked to your desk.

75

You might see a client occasionally,

but you'll be working with lots

76

of numbers and spreadsheets.

77

I know that's not true, but that

is the perception in some quarters.

78

Give us your view of the current

value prop for talent in accounting.

79

I'll

80

start with what the The value

prop is that is, uh, I'll start

81

with what the positive is.

82

Jeff Phillips: is.

83

Rob Brown: Accountants are

84

business consultants.

85

Accountants are trusted advisors.

86

Jeff Phillips: Um,

87

Rob Brown: is a profession that

is only going to grow in demand.

88

Here in the U.

89

S.

90

there are 31 million businesses.

91

They've all got to pay taxes.

92

They all need

93

financial related

94

insight.

95

They all need advice.

96

They

97

need audits.

98

They need

99

what we call advisory services.

100

Jeff Phillips: The,

101

Rob Brown: the the brand of

102

Jeff Phillips: of

103

the

104

Rob Brown: the CPA and the brand

of the ACCA and the enrolled agents

105

are so trusted compared

to other professions.

106

Jeff Phillips: It's a,

107

Rob Brown: a, it's a strong

108

brand and a strong market.

109

And as I feel like almost

everybody knows that would be

110

watching this or listening to it,

111

Jeff Phillips: it,

112

Rob Brown: we hit where we have a weak

value proposition is in compensation.

113

flexibility and work life balance,

being on call versus being off

114

call,

115

issues

116

around remote work that were

brought around from the pandemic

117

Jeff Phillips: Um,

118

Rob Brown: there before.

119

And so the negative value proposition is,

120

Jeff Phillips: around a weaker

brand around compensation.

121

the perception of long hours, the

perception of it, that it's boring, um,

122

Rob Brown: perception that I'm going to be

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Jeff Phillips: be

124

Rob Brown: to a desk

125

Jeff Phillips: desk

126

Rob Brown: and doing tax

returns the rest of my career,

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Jeff Phillips: my career.

128

Rob Brown: And

129

perception

130

that I don't have a long term career, that

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Jeff Phillips: path,

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Rob Brown: it's a great place to start,

133

but I want to get it, but we want to

get out of it as soon as possible.

134

I think a lot of debts before they

are fixable, just business model

135

changes, but the fact remains, and

you'll see in the Fast Company article,

136

and you'll put in the, show notes,

137

Jeff Phillips: in the, in the,

138

Rob Brown: the, Sherm are people to

our competitors, and our competitors

139

Jeff Phillips: people

140

and we're losing people to our

competitors and our competitors are

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Rob Brown: companies that offer

a set of employment options that

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Jeff Phillips: options

143

Rob Brown: the profession does.

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We're losing people to in house

positions, we're losing people to

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outside of accounting altogether.

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Jeff Phillips: accounting altogether.

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Rob Brown: When I think of my career, I

trained as a maths teacher in the end.

148

I taught secondary school mathematics,

but I did start out as an accountant.

149

I took a degree in accounting.

150

I didn't complete it.

151

I do have a diploma in accounting,

but back then when I didn't know quite

152

what I wanted to do, I was comfortable

with numbers and I was attracted by the

153

respect of the accounting profession.

154

There was good coin in it, so you knew

you would get some good compensation.

155

I was attracted by the rigour

of the profession, it was robust

156

and it was hard to get in.

157

So there was kudos there.

158

Also the security, I never

heard of unemployed accountants.

159

So we come into it with

those expectations.

160

Yes, it's hard work.

161

We don't want it to be a breeze and

there needs to be a barrier to entry.

162

But as you start to compare it to say

the legal and the medical profession,

163

who study just as hard for the

qualifications, you might argue,

164

and other professional services.

165

The accounts that seem to be dropping

down in compensation, and you're right,

166

there is a leeching out of the profession

into industry, into finance, into tech,

167

into doing their own thing, are coming

out of the labor market altogether.

168

So, the brand of accounting does seem

to have a problem, and I'm wondering

169

if that's just happened overnight,

or did the pandemic accelerate that?

170

Have we been grinding away

at the brand for years?

171

How have we got here?

172

Jeff Phillips: We've been

grinding away at it for

173

Rob Brown: Right.

174

Jeff Phillips: And I

175

think if you look at the small and

mid market in the United States,

176

partners are making great money.

177

Um, owners of small firms are doing okay.

178

But the, the model has always been,

we can hire at a lower compensation

179

Rob Brown: very long hours, very stressful

career, and it always is that consumer, in

180

this case, which is the employment base,

181

rising up to it, and they're seeing

in high school and in college that,

182

that yes, it's secure, but it's, it's,

Uh, it lacks the thrill it lacks a

183

Jeff Phillips: but it's, Uh, it

lacks the thrill or it lacks a

184

Rob Brown: long term

185

Jeff Phillips: prospect

186

Rob Brown: lacks,

187

Jeff Phillips: it

188

Rob Brown: uh, well, you know, I think

just, I spent, you know, if you're in

189

the United States, you've got to get a

four year degree, and you add a master's,

190

Jeff Phillips: you've got to get a four

year degree, then you add a master's

191

and so it's a five year degree.

192

So we've got 150 hours, then you sit

for the CPA exam make a salary that

193

is pretty equivalent to a lot of

entry level work, Rob, that doesn't

194

require a master's or the credential.

195

Cool.

196

And so I think it starts there.

197

And if you zoom out just for a

second, there's a labor problem

198

too, that we're dealing with.

199

Um, Ferry is a massive recruiting

firm and they came out with a study.

200

in 2017 that tells us that globally

201

Rob Brown: knowledge workers

then there will be jobs

202

that

203

are trying to hire them.

204

We're just

205

growing our knowledge work,

206

Jeff Phillips: Uh,

207

Rob Brown: market, labor We

are growing the knowledge work

208

Jeff Phillips: work economy

209

Rob Brown: than there is a

labor pool to fill those jobs.

210

I used to show that slide at speeches

and presentations and everybody would

211

yawn and say this doesn't affect me.

212

Well, now we're feeling it.

213

And I think the great resignation

that occurred as a result of that

214

Jeff Phillips: as a result of the 2020

pandemic globally accelerated that.

215

So we have a labor market problem.

216

Rob Brown: That's not just

accounting too, is it?

217

To be fair, there are many other sectors

that are suffering with that, but

218

equally, there are some sectors that are

attracting the talent, maybe from the

219

accounting talent pool that are doing

well and offering a good employer value,

220

employee value proposition sectors, but

221

specifically in accounting,

222

it states that, it's probably, Trump

listeners states there's only 660, 000

223

Jeff Phillips: you think I can

only speak to the United States,

224

but it's probably true everywhere

you have listeners, are about 1.

225

1 million accountants

in the United States.

226

There's only 660, 000 CPAs.

227

Right.

228

And there's a, in America, we have

about a three and a half percent

229

unemployment rate right now.

230

Usually accounting and auditing

in America is about half that.

231

So something like one and a half

percent, one to eight percent.

232

What that means here is that everybody

that wants a job is employed.

233

So lots of your listeners have posted a

job on ZipRecruiter or Indeed and gotten

234

a lot of applicants, but no accountants.

235

And that's why.

236

So, you know, what I've learned through

this process is There are, the value

237

proposition as an industry is weak.

238

but can be changed.

239

We have full employment.

240

And so what can you change

in order to have a successful

241

and predictable hiring result?

242

That's the question that

ought to be on people's minds.

243

Rob Brown: But let's move to that shortly.

244

I just want to.

245

Move beyond the emotions

that are clearly in this

246

conversation.

247

And you and I speak to a lot of

leaders in accounting and talk

248

about the brand and the challenges.

249

Talk to the FEM owners that

they're wanting to grow, but

250

they can't find the people.

251

But let's put some facts behind this.

252

Just pick out a couple of the stats

from this Sherm article and this

253

Fast Company piece that you actually

commented on at the time, Jeff.

254

What are some of the headline stats

here that we should be mindful

255

of?

256

Jeff Phillips: Yeah.

257

I thought the Sherm

article was interesting.

258

This is the Society of Human Resources

Management and it's pointing out there

259

were something like 300, 000 fewer

account or 300, 000 accountants and

260

auditors that left their positions over

the last two years in the United States.

261

Rob Brown: 300, 000.

262

Wow.

263

Jeff Phillips: so that's about

a 17 percent loss of employed

264

accountants from its peak of 2019.

265

So you can trace our current predicament

to sailing into the pandemic.

266

I think the, the issues, the value

proposition issues, lower wages,

267

longer hours, less flexibility were

there and we were complacent, right?

268

But then as you get

into 19, 20, 21 and on.

269

That accelerated that, that exposed

that weakness that we had in the value

270

proposition.

271

Rob Brown: But a lot of people might

argue, Jeff, that that's the baby

272

boomers that are leaving, that they're

at retirement age, they're selling up,

273

they're moving on, and so naturally

there's going to be that churn.

274

17 percent does sound a lot, but a

younger accountant's leaving too.

275

Jeff Phillips: You're right, Rob.

276

So this, a large part of this

picture was, I'm a baby boomer.

277

I'm ready to retire sooner

than I thought I was going to.

278

But this Sherm article also points out

that accountants, you know, between

279

25 and 50 years of age are leaving

the profession at a faster clip than,

280

um, they had ever before as well.

281

It's smaller, right?

282

So that gives us a little bit of

hope, but it's still significant.

283

And I think that's, that's

where we have to pay attention.

284

Rob Brown: Yeah.

285

Okay.

286

So we, we know we've got people leaving.

287

Uh, there's a start on job growth as well.

288

It's 6 percent a year

for the next eight years.

289

So the accountant numbers are going down

and, and the job vacancies are going up.

290

That's not something that

stacks up mathematically.

291

Jeff Phillips: It's not, this is why

that corn ferry study was so important.

292

It's telling us as knowledge workers,

we're going to have more jobs

293

than we have people to fill them.

294

And that is exactly the

case in the United States.

295

And it's, the industry is only growing.

296

The demand for what we do is

growing and growing and growing.

297

and the labor pool is sort of

staying the same and marginally

298

leaving in the, in the, in the age

groups that we are concerned about.

299

Rob Brown: But Jeff, my thinking here

is, okay, people leave every profession,

300

every industry, every sector, but

there's always people coming through.

301

So are there any barriers to entry

that are stopping people taking

302

accounting degrees or coming into

public accounting or taking chartered

303

accounting qualifications here in the UK?

304

What's stopping that

influx at the bottom end?

305

There's

306

a slight

307

downtick in the number of people

that are taking the CPA exam.

308

There's a slight downtick in the

number of people getting a cab.

309

So our supply is a little bit

smaller in the United States, way

310

more complexity on the tax side.

311

But there, what's happening is

students are just seeing better

312

careers outside aggressive industries.

313

They're seeing that in investment

banking, consulting, paper 2.

314

Jeff Phillips: bit smaller and yet we're

all getting more customers, more demand.

315

Not to mention over here in

the United States way more

316

complexity on the tax side.

317

I think that they're, I think what's

happening in, in, in, in stepping

318

away from numbers for a second is

that college students are just seeing

319

a better career path and by better

career path, I mean a better life.

320

a better financial upside, the perks that

come with more progressive industries.

321

seeing that, they're looking at

investment banking, they're looking at

322

consulting, they're looking at going

into work in high tech companies,

323

and they're comparing that to, you

know, boring old accounting, and so

324

Rob Brown: So, they are

325

Jeff Phillips: making that equation for

themselves that I'm better off choosing

326

this more, know, attractive career path.

327

Rob Brown: Yeah, when we use the phrase

the war for talent, traditionally,

328

we might say the war for talent

is between accounting firms.

329

The big four, for instance, always try and

put cream off the top talent coming out of

330

universities to recruit for their firms.

331

But the war for talent now is that

accountants or would be accountants

332

are looking at different career

paths and saying, well, I don't

333

even want to go into accounting.

334

Just like a competitor

for Apple is Amazon.

335

It didn't used to be because they were in

different markets, but these entertainment

336

providers now are all competitors.

337

Even.

338

Take a hotel.

339

The Radisson Hotel or the Hilton Hotel

is a competitor for accounting firms.

340

Insofar as people will walk into

the lobby and have an experience.

341

They'll have a customer experience.

342

Or if you have a website online, you

compete with Amazon because they create

343

an experience for you in buying or seeing

stuff online that really, really works.

344

So, there's so many competitors out

there beyond accounting firms themselves.

345

for this talent.

346

And you mentioned consulting.

347

That is a massive one.

348

And these upwardly mobile tech companies,

that is another massive one where they

349

can almost be Google type employers

and give you a really interesting,

350

meaningful, exciting, varied career path,

that accounting, whilst it might do,

351

doesn't seem to be able to articulate.

352

Jeff Phillips: is competing

against high tech.

353

It's not just firm A is

competing against firm B.

354

I mean, we should dig into how to compete,

but yes, we as a profession competing

355

against much more aggressive employers.

356

I'm reminded of a story, Rob.

357

I at a CPA firm conference

eight or nine years ago.

358

and was in a room full of CPA

partners at wonderful middle market

359

firms here in the United States.

360

And I wanted to talk about their

value proposition to talent.

361

That was what they asked

me to come and speak.

362

What I did was I

363

Rob Brown: And she explains to CPA

364

Jeff Phillips: officer of a Silicon

Valley a company that's a, that's a

365

billion dollar unicorn now, but it,

it plays in the accounting space and

366

she explained to the CPA partners,

367

Rob Brown: partners, their

368

Jeff Phillips: around flexibility,

369

Rob Brown: flexibility, HR

370

Jeff Phillips: leave, just

general HR policies that

371

Rob Brown: that

372

Jeff Phillips: trust

373

Rob Brown: and trustworthiness.

374

Jeff Phillips: general HR policies

that are investing heavily in

375

the career path of their people.

376

And I could feel the tension in the room

because there was such a large resistance.

377

I remember, I remember hearing, I

remember hearing like audible sighs when

378

she would talk about paternity leave.

379

Who, who could imagine

such a radical idea?

380

And I got up on stage after she spoke.

381

I said, this is who

we're competing against.

382

It's not that people don't

383

Rob Brown: It's that we're

selling the wrong product.

384

And our experience of working inside

your firms is the differentiating factor.

385

How do we sell it better, right?

386

How do we, how do we change

the experience for the town?

387

What?

388

Jeff Phillips: I see a lot

of opportunity in that.

389

Rob Brown: In another show, Jeff,

I want to talk about the, the

390

implications for the employers.

391

What does this mean for accounting firms?

392

What does this mean for the

future of the profession?

393

And I also want to dip into some of the

solutions we will over coming weeks.

394

Uh, but just give us a little bit of

hope here as we draw to a close on this

395

episode of, Okay, there are problems,

but some firms are dealing with it.

396

There are mechanisms, there are

systems, processes, means by which to

397

bypass, overcome the talent problem.

398

So give us a little bit of hope here.

399

Jeff Phillips: The CPA brand here

in the United States is the, is the

400

most trusted professional brand.

401

that there is.

402

There are 31 million

businesses and growing.

403

The demand for the accounting

services is growing.

404

We, we work in a phenomenal,

um, profession of business

405

advisors and financial

406

Rob Brown: You're preaching

to the converted though, Jeff.

407

All of our listeners, watchers, they

know that because they are in this game.

408

We need that message to

get to the people that are

409

not

410

in accounting that could be or

considering leaving perhaps.

411

Jeff Phillips: Well, I think the

hope is what we tell and how we

412

communicate our value proposition

413

Rob Brown: Yeah.

414

Jeff Phillips: to be

415

improved, number one.

416

Number two, there are There are

pockets of talent that CPA firms are

417

Rob Brown: an exciting time.

418

Jeff Phillips: accounting firm owners

that don't think deeply about onboarding

419

and how to create a amazing um, employee

experience inside their firm so that they.

420

stay.

421

to call it the new talent stack.

422

There is just a new way of thinking about

who we hire what we tell them to, to, uh,

423

them excited about this career journey.

424

Rob Brown: Quickly, if employers

don't get talent right, there's

425

a lot of complacency out there.

426

We've got a great firm.

427

We've got a great brand.

428

People will want to work for us.

429

We've been going millions of years

and there is that almost ignorance of

430

the talent problem because they think

they're always going to fill vacancies.

431

But that's starting to happen

now where it isn't being filled.

432

So the implications for employers

are severe now and will get ever more

433

severe, but all for maybe a few brands.

434

Jeff Phillips: Ultimately owners of

firms care about their enterprise value.

435

What's, what's my succession plan?

436

What will I exit for?

437

Rob Brown: Yeah.

438

Jeff Phillips: The

439

ability to predictably and reliably

hire talent into a firm is one

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of the value drivers of the, of

the exit price of a business.

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And.

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where we've got to work and there are

systems and processes there where you

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can win and it directly affects Whether

or not you sell your firm whether or

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not you sell your book of business your

practice your partnership So it's critical

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Rob Brown: Jeff, we'll sign off there,

but give us a flavor of what kind of

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things we're going to be talking about

on the Accounting Talent Podcast over

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the next few weeks, because you've got

a whole list of topics, juicy topics

448

that you want to get into, and real life

examples that are really, really working.

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So what's on the agenda

for our listeners and

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watchers?

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Jeff Phillips: the agenda is do we win?

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I have the privilege of watching

employers win on a daily basis.

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I'm inspired by their stories and

I appreciate you asking me back

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to tell some of those stories,

but we're going to, we're going

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to talk about who are we hiring?

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Where are they living currently?

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How are we going to find them

and bring them into our firm and

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create an awesome culture for them?

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How are we going to address remote work?

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What are we going to do about offshoring?

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How are we going to properly

integrate new hires into our teams?

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In this new hybrid environment,

how are we going to make sure those

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employees that we don't see are

productive and we feel confident

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that they're getting the job done?

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Uh, how are we going to

trust those employees?

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So I, I think what you'll see is we're

going to lay out a sequence of topics

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that are useful to every employer in

the accounting profession that I hope

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they feel inspired and confident.

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And what they do is they take

practical checklists from this that

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will, that will move the needle

forward for them a daily basis.

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Rob Brown: And you said every employer in

accounting, I'm thinking of the succession

472

plan and the way people grow into careers,

we're all probably going to be employers

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at some point, we're building teams,

we're building departments and functions

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and service lines, and we're moving up

the career ladder, which means we're more

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managers, bosses, leaders, then at the

bottom rung of the ladder, so I guess the

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target for this show as we build it up,

Jeff, is anyone in leadership or would

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be leadership positions in accounting?

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Jeff Phillips: Anyone that is

a leader in this profession

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going to have to be involved in

hiring, outsourcing, delegating.

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You can't grow a business

without other people, especially

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in the business we're in.

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We're not selling widgets at scale.

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We're selling the time and expertise

of professionals, those professionals

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are essential to growing our

business, accomplishing our goals.

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Rob Brown: Well, Jeff Phillips,

we are excited about you

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joining us for this journey.

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We've got so many things to discuss.

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I'm thrilled that you'll be our co host.

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I'm Rob Brown.

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This is the Accounting Talent Podcast.

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Weekly episodes coming out

every Thursday, tune in and tell

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your friends about the show.

493

Also check out our associate sister

show, the Accounting Influencers Podcast.

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Jeff appears on that as well.

495

We're currently doing a series

on the future of accounting.

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These are four personal panels with some

of the top experts and leaders, thinkers

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in the world that have something to

say about where accounting is going.

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And we will touch on a little bit of

talent thing, but this is your show

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to focus on accounting and on talent,

the challenges and the solutions.

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Thank you for listening.

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We'll see you next time.