Penny is so excited to interview her first human guest...except she may not be human. Unless she was joking. You decide! Penny's guest this episode is award winning author and friend to creatures of all sorts, Seanan McGuire!!

Listen as Seanan and Penny talk about how gorgons are portrayed in Seanan's books (wonderfully and respectfully!), the wonders of talking to snakes, and Komodo dragons.

Seanan McGuire sounds exactly like Seanan McGuire, for obvious reasons. You can find her books wherever books are sold, check out her website at seananmcguire.com, and find her on twitter at @seananmcguire!

Penny Cephalonia sounds a lot like Rebecca Hicks, on Twitter at @RHicks.

Sibyl Corvin's voice bears an uncanny resemblance to that of Jaci Szilagyi, who twitters at @jekyllyn.

Music is by TJ, the empathic vampire! Learn more or get your own awesome music at https://linktr.ee/afkai.

Sound editing by Sibyl's doppelganger Jaci.

Check out the art of Penny's vocal doppelganger at lunaseastudios.storenvy.com!

Follow THE GORGON SHOW on Twitter at @GorgonShow, or email us at gorgonshow@faustiannonsense.com. See transcripts at faustiannonsense.com/gorgon-show.

THE GORGON SHOW is a proud member of the Faustian Nonsense network. Check out other projects by FN at faustiannonsense.com.

If you'd like to support the show, and the independent creators of FN, you can become a patron at patreon.com/faustiannonsense and earn our boundless and eternal gratitude! Sign up for the crossroads tier to get early access to episodes of original series like THE GORGON SHOW!

Today's episode is brought to you by THE CALL OF CTHULHU MYSTERY PROGRAM, a dark comedy actual play podcast that uses The Call of Cthulhu to tell you weird and delightful stories. Find out more and listen at cthulhumystery.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sibyl predicts that it'll make your day!

Mentioned in this episode:

Finding Monster Right is a hilarious podcast in which Adam and Allie answer questions you've never asked about monsters from folklore, pop culture, and our own world. Find them wherever you get your podcasts, and on twitter at @MonsterRightPod!

Penny 0:26

Hi, you're listening to the Gorgon Show, a podcast about being a monster in a human world. I'm your host, Penny Cephalonia. And I'm a Gorgon. I'm so excited because I got to interview my first human guest for this episode, or possibly human guest. I'm still not sure if she was joking about that or not. But she's a friend of monsters, whatever she is, a nd that's what's important to me.

Johann 0:53

And a friend to snakes. She likes snakes.

Penny 0:57

Yes, that just made her more delightful to have as a guest didn't it, Johann?

Forbes 1:02

She was alright, for a maybe human. I got to admit.

Penny 1:06

I didn't quite know what to expect. But I was delighted with how much she made me think about what the word monster can mean, depending on who's saying it or hearing it and about what that word means to me personally.

Duncan 1:18

Doughnuts!

Penny 1:20

No Duncan monster does not mean donuts, sorry. For me it's a word I use neutrally to describe myself and those like me. But I know I do that because I've had the privilege of being around mostly kind and accepting humans. I do know humans, they use the word monster as an insult. Or to point out that they think someone is a threat.

Zappa 1:40

That's so not cool. Not every monster is a threat to humans Gods being speciesist is not fashionable people.

Penny 1:50

I agree Zappa. Just like not all snakes are harmful to humans,

Zappa 1:54

Right? And like Hello, Humans can be harmful to humans duh.

Penny 2:00

Exactly. And sometimes the harm any of us may cause is completely accidental. And then you have a new statue in your yard and it's like, hey, free art. Anyway, you might call me a monster and mean it as an insult to me, but I see it as something to be proud of. I'm proud to be a monster. I'm proud to be a monster that is a Gorgon. But I do not speak for all monsters, or for all Gorgons. I'm just speaking for myself. So human friends and listeners, I have some advice for you. If you're not sure what to call someone, ask them, then call them what they'd like to be called.

Forbes 2:40

It's really not that hard. Don't cost Nnthing to be respectful.

Penny 2:45

Absolutely, Forbes. So an extra big thank you to this episode's guest for caring enough about monsters like me to want to speak about us respectfully, and treat us as the individuals we are. I'm so thrilled to share my interview with award winning, maybe-human author and monster friend who might be a monster herself. But who really knows. Seanan McGuire. But first, a word from one of our wonderful sponsors.

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I'm so excited to welcome our first human guest, not only human, a human author, a breed of human that is just on a whole other level of human, please welcome to the Gorgon show Seanan McGuire. Hi, Seanan. How are you today?

Seanan 4:44

Hi, thanks for having me.

Penny 4:46

You are most welcome.

Seanan 4:48

I'm I'm fine. You know, I am the vanguard of an invading species of alien plant people coming to eat this entire puny planet. So I'm a little offended by how many times you said human in the first twenty seconds, but I'll get over it.

Penny 5:02

Oh, this is one of those times where I'm not sure if a human is joking or not. If you are indeed human. I'm just going to do something I learned from a previous guest is is the wink. I'm going to wink at you right now. Wink. That means I get it, even though I'm not sure I do. Oh, humans are so funny. I probably should talk to you more. Well, if you are not human, wink, how would you like me to describe you to the audience?

Seanan 5:34

I don't know, author is fine. Seanan is fine.

Penny 5:38

Okay.

Seanan 5:39

My usual indicated species is annoying. So we just kind of roll with that.

Penny 5:44

Okay. Well, then welcome, annoying Seanan. Okay, we're just going to go with that. So as I said, you are an author, could you please tell our audience a little bit about some of your works, but specifically, the Incryptid series, which I was a little frightened to read, but I found Well, it was a very nice, fictional but still nice and overall positive depiction of monsters and cryptids. And I really, really appreciated it. But for members of our audience, human and Monster, who may not be familiar with it, how would you describe your work? Do you describe your work as annoying as well?

Seanan 6:24

So I primarily write urban fantasy, which is the most recent incarnation of the fairytale or Marchand archetype, where you're taking magical elements and bringing them into an otherwise mundane, modern world. You have variations on urban fantasy that happened in different time periods, it is sort of like horror in that it's as much a flavor as it is a genre in and of itself. The Incryptid books are fairly straightforward urban fantasy in that they happen in the world. Anybody can wander out into, but they include, as you say, cryptids and monsters, although the characters that that series is about the Price family would never use the word monster, they find it extremely offensive, it is not an appropriate way to talk about another intelligent creature.

Penny 6:24

Yeah, that is one of the things that I really appreciated about your book, we are trying to make changes in the language. But at the same time, well, humans are in charge. It's slow going, I'm not quite sure how to talk about myself, to my human friends sometimes. And I use the term monster simply because I don't have a replacement term. If you have any suggestions, I would absolutely love to hear them. But if someone calls me a monster, I don't take it as an insult. Unless they mean it is an insult. Language is funny, but you would know that since you're an author.

Seanan 7:52

That is true, it is very much in where you're standing as to whether or not it is considered to be an insult or something like that. Gorgons are usually are usually considered to be monsters. Sadly, they are mythological creatures in the most formal application of the of the of the term, they are not considered demigods, which is unreasonable, since every frickin thing else wandering around the Greek mythology got to be a demigod at some point or another. I would go with cryptid if you are talking colloquially, mythological figure, you know something to try and step away from that monster because even if you're not offended, that is a word that is inherently depersonalizing for most humans, they're going to hear you describe something as a monster and go, Oh, well, that's not a person. I don't have to be kind to it. I don't have to take care of it. I don't have to be gentle. And that's not reasonable

Penny 8:55

That is fascinating. I actually find it kind of ironic how monstrous humans can be to one another. Oh, this is Oh, this is going in directions I did not expect and I am so happy and also terrified. Amazing. So I have to take a moment to consider well in the world that you've created Gorgons are, well mythological creatures, but of course, here in the real world, we are well as as real as you and I. And yet, I would love to talk about how humans have created mythologies around us. Gorgons. Even humans like yourself who I'm going to make an assumption here. You must be friends with some Gorgons because there are some details. I was reading Half Off Ragnarok and there were moments where I went, Oh, out loud, and I scared my snakes. Because it's like, oh, that's that's just dead on. Correct. Good job.

Seanan 9:53

Yay.

Penny 9:54

But the rest of the fiction that you created around Gorgons I thought was both fascinating. and respectful. So could could you please talk about how you came up with some of the ideas well to mythologize, mythologize,

mythologize.

mythologize. Thank you mythologize us.

So I went to university at the University of California, Berkeley, Go Bears, and was the first student that they had ever had to deal with who decided that the best possible major was a hybridization of folklore and herpetology. So my degree was literally in fairy tales and snakes. That is what I studied for several years at the academic level. And that is part of what I brought to the Incryptid series is a biological approach to these creatures that people generally regard as fantastical, you know, do they exist? Do they not exist? We don't know. But what would they look like if they existed in this real world? What known biological attributes can I use to recreate them and make them a functional part of a setting that depends on real world physics and biology to hang together. So basically, everything you encounter in that series, with the exception of some of the stranger sorcery, and Psyonics, is going to be based on some level on actual biological attributes. in that universe, the Gorgons are a member of an order called Synapsida. And the synapsids, were a real order of creatures that existed during prehistoric times, I can't remember whether they were in the Pleistocene, or the Cretaceous. That's a little outside my, my box of caring about it, I find the pieces I want, and I put them in the box of give a fuck and I leave the rest of it on the shelf for someone else to root through. But synapsids were considered the mammal like reptiles, and a lot of the fantastical creatures that I've translated into my cryptids, because cryptid is the group term for all those things, since they exist. They're not fantasy creatures. They're not mythological creatures. They are cryptids that have had mythology built up around them. So we just use that cryptid as a group term. But in my universe, a lot of cryptids can pass as humans, because they have picked up extended mimicry techniques. And that's the thing that we see all over the animal kingdom. It's a thing that we see fairly frequently in snakes, there are species of snake that can absolutely disappear into a forest floor or the underbrush, because they've learned to flatten their bodies to extend their scales to make their hoods go up all sorts of behaviors that just help them disappear. So the cryptids of the Incryptid universe looks so human because they are trying to be able to just disappear

that that is that is so close to our reality and yet so original My mind is blown and and all the snakes on my head are vibrating with excitement right now but but I am willing them to be chill. There are times when when I wish the snakes on my head could disappear. Oh, goodness. Now then that there hissing quite violently. You know, I'm joking snakes and you know, I will buy you doughnuts after this interview. Yes, yes. Yes. There you go. Good job snakes. So if you're allowed to share, do you have any Gorgon friends? Who is your research strictly academic,

my research is sadly, strictly academic, most Gorgons that I have heard of work very hard not to stand out among the human community because humans, humans kind of suck. Like there is very, they're, they're great. They're fantastic. But humans, there is very little that they have met, that they don't want to either dominate, physically take apart or have sex with possibly in that order. So if you're a Gorgon that is working in herpetological circles. You don't want people to start saying, Oh, she didn't do her own research. She never did her own work. It's just that the snakes on her head, told her how to make friends with the taipans and that's why she was able to survive. She has absolutely no academic standing. And also, I bet she doesn't have any hair. So we should totally fuck her before we hand her over to the scientists that will put her in little jars.

I wish I could disagree with your assessment on some humans, but Oh, no, no, you are you are dead on in that regard. But my my fellow Gorgons, specifically, my friends and family, I don't know of anyone in the sciences, we do tend to like you, like you pointed out in your book. We do tend to prefer jobs where we get to be away from people. My parents, they wanted me to I believe the term is integrate. But at the same time, they wanted me to keep my head down. But yes, I have encountered some of those asshole humans before and the places where they lived. have new sculptures.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, they just popped up, but I have no idea how that happened. But oh, I do. I do think that if you ever had the opportunity to become friends with a Gorgon, if you ever see a Gorgon out and about, please, I believe they would really enjoy talking with you. Oh, no, no, no goodness, I'm no I'm not trying to be your friend. No, that would be that would be okay. I would love to be friends with you. You're the coolest human I've ever met. You're so awesome.

Well, that might be my best route since otherwise, it's a little fetishizey you to go up to someone and go, Hey, just because of your species. I'd like to make friends.

Yes, yes. It would

Have nothing else in common

Yeah, it would be awkward. I have had several encounters where humans want to touch my snakes. And though my snakes are not venomous, yeah, that's just sometimes I wish they were. And I have been told some times that I'm very articulate for a Gorgon. But I also know that humans talk to each other like this. And I don't quite understand why. But I'm also a little shy, so I can understand how difficult it can be to just start interacting with another sentient being. But if the ever opportunity ever presented itself, I cannot speak for all Gorgons. But I do believe they would appreciate that you are a friend, and that you mean to represent them well. And in a very creative, yet still respective way. For example, I'd like to talk a little bit about how in your fictional world, there are different species of gorgons. I found that fascinating. Because, of course, in the real world, we are all well, much like humans, we are of different races. Well human definition we have slightly different skin colors, but we're all quite connected. Most of us, there's always those weird ones. We all have those weird cousins at the family reunions. But I'd like to talk a little bit about the species in your Incryptid series and how you've divided Gorgons into three different species, some less human than others. Could Could you speak to that? Where did you come up with that idea? It's fascinating.

Well, if you go back to Greek mythology to the stories that humans were telling about gorgons centuries ago, when we first started becoming aware that Gorgons existed, and wanted to turn you into fairy tale creatures so we could feel comfortable around you. The idea was the Medusa had two sisters. So you have the three Gorgons I've set up three separate subspecies of Gorgon, that each descended from a different one of those sisters. So you have the greater Gorgons that are descended from Medusa and then you have the Pliny's gorgons and the lesser gorgons that are descended from her two sisters.

Yeah, I absolutely loved that you did that and how you honored Medusa and her sisters that way. I have never actually met Medusa now that she's been brought back to life despite the actions of that fucker Perseus, but I don't know, maybe maybe I'll be less shy about talking to her next time. I do come across her at a Gorgan family reunion, and maybe I could talk to her about your books. I don't know. She might have already read them. She might enjoy them. I have never seen her sisters though. I Oh, goodness. This is this is kind of wrong of me to say, but I don't think they get along. You know how sisters can be. I've heard there's some drama. I don't know any more details than that.

There usually is, between sisters. I mean, I have sisters we don't always get on. And of course, there's the great and sprawling root mass that's on the Armada that's currently on Route toward Earth

That would cause a lot of tension. Wink, hee hee. So I am still curious about humans and and the way you all think despite being around you, as much as I have been. Would you mind if I ask you some questions? I know you're not representing all humans here. But would you mind if I ask some questions? Well, about being human,

Feel free. Part of my job on this planet is to acquire full cultural literacy so that when the Armada shows up, we have given them every opportunity to tell us not to eat them. Therefore, I'm probably pretty well braced to answer you. i

Okay. I still don't know what to do with that. So I'm just going to smile. listeners. I'm smiling nervously right now. Thank you. So what's it like having the thoughts on your head? Stay silent and not hiss at you all the time? Does it ever get lonely? Not having snakes on your head?

I mean, I kind of wonder how you sleep. Given that there is the concern of rolling over onto a snake, I guess you just adapt to it. The assumption that human thoughts are silent. I have always kind of envied people whose thoughts are external because mine are so loud. They're in here yelling all the time. And I sometimes don't know which ones are me and which ones are characters I've created and which ones are transmissions from the Armada?

Oh my goodness. So you, you have snakes in your head?

Yes, that is basically how it works.

metaphorical snakes. Oh, that that is fascinating. Um, as as for sleeping, my snakes are very, very good about they do this. I almost describe it as this Beyonce flounce. They do this amazing flounce, when I put my head down on the pillow, and they just kind of go up and then gently down onto the pillow. And and I've just learned how to sleep without rolling over onto them. All gorgons have learned this, but I learned very early on as soon as my snakes started talking to me, because they would let me know if I happen to roll over in a way that made them uncomfortable. As for sleeping, I believe that gorgons like me we are very rare. Those of us who have snakes that talk out loud. We're a little rare amongst Gorgons. But I know I'm not alone. And I have found that we are some of the best Sleepers of all. I'm lucky enough to have. Yes, yes, Johann, I'm talking about you. I have a musical snake. And he hisses me to sleep every night with his little three chords.

I am always so happy to sing you to sleep. It is the very best!

yes. Yes, Johann. I appreciate it. And I appreciate that you don't sing when I'm on the telephone with a friend

oh you're You're very welcome.

So yeah, I actually sleep very, very well. But maybe I should like record what my snakes do each night when I put my head on the pillow. It's actually it's actually quite lovely. They just go up and then down in this beautiful little wave.

So do your snakes have independent brains? Like has anyone autopsied a Gorgon, who has passed away due to natural, natural causes?

Um, I know just like humans, when one of us dies under mysterious circumstances, that autopsies have been done. But I have not really studied the more scientific aspects of being a Gorgon, I believe that what you've made up about Gorgon, scientifically is probably more than I know, in reality about Gorgons. But I'm going to put that on my list of things to learn about ourselves. But I've my my snakes each have individual voices, therefore, I feel that they must have individual brains. Oh, that's a little terrifying,

that is not outside the realm of human experience. For a lot of people, their pets will have individual voices that they can hear. Sometimes their toys will have individual voices. They will have bunches of individual voices just hanging out in their heads. That is relatively normal. But I think the question of whether they have brains is a good one. If they do have brains, they must be dreaming at night once they go to sleep, or they would inexorable ly go insane due to a lack of mental decluttering

I dream about money

oh my god I dream about, like, what it must feel like to have hair. Oh my god, I have hair would be so cool.

I dream about music, specifically hip hop.

Doughnuts,

okay, your snakes almost certainly have independent brains. And that further means that someone could effectively use as a form of torture, blocking your ears and then blasting sirens so your snakes couldn't sleep for 10 days straight.

i My snakes sometimes annoying me, but I would not want that to happen to them. Oh, who would do that? Seanan is this the aliens.

Humans!

Oh, yes, yes, of course.

Humans love to find out how you can take things apart, you will find scientific studies involving lots of animals that are just as bad if not worse than that, that humans have already conducted. And unfortunately, because of your snakes, if human science were to have confirmation of your existence, you would be classified as an animal rather than a human. They can't accept the idea of that level of variance from what they have decided is the norm.

Oh, that's That's horrible. I'm I sometimes regret having a self defense mechanism that is staring at people and petrifying them. But there are also times where I'm really glad I have that available. Now, I've uh, my human friends, as I said, my Gorgon friends not much into the sciences, my human friends, I know some artists and some engineers, but I think I'm extra glad that I've avoided these these scientist people, they sound awful.

That is probably for the best. Many scientists are wonderful people who just want to know things. But you do, unfortunately, get your share of scientists who think that because they are humans, there is a major human religious text that begins with the God of humans who created all the people telling the humans, okay, everything here is yours do with it as you will. And there are many humans who have used that as an excuse to torture animals, take them apart, use them for their own devices, and I don't mean eating them. Humans are omnivores, as I believe gorgons are.

Oh, I like a good cheeseburger.

Exactly. And ethical killing and consumption of animals is against some people's moral codes. But it's not innately going to be the worst thing ever. My cat who is hanging out right next to me, very much enjoys the opportunity to kill and eat things. I can't stop her. I've tried.

Predator and prey! Okay, so So what I'm hearing is is human scientists can be awesome, but maybe I should be a little extra cautious around them because they are curious. Sometimes to a fault.

That is correct.

Is that what you're saying.

Yes.

Okay. Good to know. Okay. No, no snakes. Don't Don't worry. I can I can. I can feel your nervousness. I would never let any harm come to you from anyone other than me. That's right. You're doing a good job. Keep behaving. So yes, yes, my snakes must have individual brains, which I will protect with my life. Only I get to threaten my snakes, human listeners, just to be clear. Speaking of snakes, I know you're a fan, very knowledgeable fan of of venomous creatures. And well, the answer is snakes of course. But what are some of your favorites besides snakes, which is the answer snakes are the best.

One very common misconception among humans, because it's unclear is the difference between venomous and poisonous. If something bites you and you die, it's venomous. If you bite something and you die, it's poisonous. So my favorite venomous creatures do include snakes. I love snakes. Snakes are the best. My favorite venomous snakes include Floyd, who is the king cobra that for a long time lived at the University of California, Berkeley, the specific taipan currently in residence at the Melbourne at the Melbourne Reptile Park, who is basically the Ron Jeremy of Taipans. He is so used to being milked daily that if you pick him up, he just pops fang, he's ready to go. I'm a big fan of King cobras in general, they tend to be very, very sweet, very, very amiable creatures. But outside of the snake category, I love Komodo dragons and I love Gila monsters. And I love how long it took us to figure out that Komodo dragons were venomous because the fact that they are 19 feet long and can eat your ass apparently distracted us from the part where you're not just rotting to death. When they bite you. You're dying of a slow acting topical poison. I'm like I just I respect that A plus Go Team venomous lizards.

I must say I respect that as well. I hope in their time they've eaten some of those asshole scientists who are talking about hehehe

They in fact have. I don't understand from a biological standpoint, how we're not just ass-deep in Komodo dragons at all times. The Komodo dragon doesn't have the X Y chromosome layout the most mammals and reptiles do. Instead they have a z w. Female Komodo dragons are capable of parthenogenic reproduction that includes males that are genetically dissimilar enough from their mother that they can reproduce with their mother to make more Komodo dragons. without encountering genetic bottlenecking. They can be up to 19 feet long, they stand a foot and a half tall at the shoulder, which is entirely the wrong size for a lizard to be and they can swim. They swim the motherfuckers can go from island to island. How are they not here? How are they not just everywhere?

I must be honest with you just Gorgon to human. I don't know how you hairless apes really came to dominate the planet, especially when you describe some of the other non sentient creatures on this planet. Like like like Komodo dragons and others. But I think it has something to do. I mean, my guess as I said, I'm not very well versed in science, but I would guess it would have to do with opposable thumbs, and a hell of a lot of Imagination,

persistence predation, humans basically took over because they breed very quickly. While it is difficult on the human female to give birth and survive the process. If she lives, she can make another one pretty much immediately. We don't have a breeding season. And humans can just follow things forever. Humans will literally stalk their prey until it drops dead. They don't have to depend on a burst of speed on that quick pursuit. They don't need predator reflexes. They just need to be persistent.

You are kind of creepy, I must admit Yes.

Thank you. Don't chase your dreams you were built to be a persistence predator, follow your dreams at a reasonable pace until they get tired and lay down and then you will have them.

That's that's I think, wonderful advice for both humans and and monsters. So So oh, goodness, my snakes are so happy right now I can feel it. Have you ever had a conversation with a snake because the non cryptid snakes of this world of course, don't talk which my snakes were so disappointed the first time we went to the zoo, after they awoke and started speaking, oh, they felt so lonely, I actually did feel very bad for them. But if you could ask a snake a question, or if you could just tell a snake something? What would you ask? What would you tell them?

I've had many conversations with snakes, it's just that they're generally one way conversations because as you say, the snakes can't speak. But some of the larger colubrids and especially the members of the Cobra family are intelligent enough that you can see a certain degree of cognition, and they understand some of what's being said to them.

That's fascinating

So I will, I will generally try to communicate exactly what I am doing and what I am hoping to achieve when I'm working with any of those snakes. And I have found that it's increased my success rate, because snakes are people too. They're not human people, but they're people and they like to know what you're trying to do to them. Now, if I could ask a snake a question and have it give me a an answer in a language I could understand. Is this a single snake offer? Or is this a limited period of time offer? Like what's going on here?

I think if you have a question for snake snakes, are you okay? Oh, all of my snakes are nodding. It's making my head go up and down. That's how powerful this is right now.

Oh that's delightful

Oh, that's kind of disconcerting, snakes. Oh, that's because it's not happening to you. You human. Okay, I say just ask some questions. And let's just see where it goes.

I mean, to be fair, my questions would be for specific snakes. Your snakes seem very delightful. But they can't help me with asking, say the king cobra at my local zoo? Are you getting everything you want? Do you have sufficient enrichment? Is there anything that would make your life better? Are you looking for a mate? Would you prefer to continue denning alone? Should I tell the zookeepers that it's time to start shopping for whatever it is you're into. And since with snakes with non Gorgon attached snakes, it can be difficult to tell the gender without inappropriately touching the snake because you can't get consent. You can't ask? You know, both? Are you an egg laying snake or an inseminating? Snake? And would you be? Would you be willing to allow a physical exam of that fact so that the zookeepers can better match you with someone? Are you happy is the primary question I would have for snakes. And I feel like your snakes are happy because they are well cared for they get doughnuts, you clearly care about their well being, you clearly want them to be happy. There are so many snakes in this world, humans have a nasty tendency to assume that because mammals are not that because reptiles sorry, are not warm and affectionate the way that mammals are, we just don't recognize their affection. It's there, it's a genuine part of what they are. But it's not a mammalian love. And so we can't see it necessarily. And so people abuse snakes, they get snakes because they think they're cool, and they don't feed them the right things. They don't keep them in the right enclosures. I've met Burmese pythons that were 14 feet long and still kept in a two by two box. That's basically being locked in a closet with no room to turn around your entire life. And since they don't have vocalizations, the only way they can complain is to strike at their humans to try and say, Hey, you're treating me badly, but that just gives the human an excuse to treat them worse, or have them euthanized.

I feel like. I have a new mission now, but I'm so sorry. Please continue. I'm just I'm all very worked up about this now. Please continue and then I'll talk about my new mission.

That's good. My big question for captive snakes would be are you happy? What can I do to make your happiness better? And my big question for wild snakes if this is like you get an hour where you can just talk to snakes will be Hey, have you considered perhaps not sunbathing in the middle of freeway. Have you considered perhaps not slithering near the elementary school where someone is going to see you and kill you? Have you considered perhaps that as a rattlesnake, you would be better off moving into that mountain where there are no humans than you are hanging out here on this soccer field.

So it sounds like just like with humans and with Gorgons there are some snakes that are well just dumb fucks

Yep.

Well, that's, that's something we all have in common then. But I have a new mission if my snakes are amenable and that is to next time we do go to our wonderful local zoo. I mean, my snakes can't communicate with snakes at the zoo like like they can communicate with me but perhaps they'd be able to key in on the body language of the snakes there and perhaps read them a little better snakes would you be willing to do that?

Oh my God, I want to help like like the non head snakes so much right now. I'm just like crying It's just so much

I know Zappa, it is a little bit overwhelming.

I don't know is there like, you know, money in I dunno taking care of like the snakes.

Not everything is about money. forbes not everything is about money. But I I feel so motivated now. To not just get to know humans better and to get to know my fellow monsters better. But also, I'm feeling so very protective of snakes right now. That is something I've never been. Thank you. Thank you so much. Annoying Seanan, thank you so much.

You're very welcome.

So I generally ask these questions of monsters on the podcast, but if you'd be, I like this word amenable. If you'd be amenable, I'd like you to ask just some questions about you, as an individual, not a representative of the entire, possibly human species. Wink.

Okay.

What's, what's a normal day, if you have a normal day, what's a normal, normal, let's say average day in your life look like.

I am a full time author. So the majority of my days begin with me getting out of bed relocating from my bedroom to wherever I have currently got the computer setup. Right now it's at my dining room table, which is 90% Magic the Gathering cards by weight and really needs to be cleaned off before tomorrow because we're playing Dungeons and Dragons at this table tomorrow night. And then I sit at my computer at whatever location I've gone to. And I work and I work until I am done working at some point in the middle of the day, I will take a walk if at all possible. I don't take a walk on Thursdays because on Wednesdays, I take a five mile walk and that is about as much as my foot can tolerate. Once I am done working, I will stop working. I mean, obviously, and then I will watch television or a movie or something else to try and give the voices in my head time to talk themselves out without involving the rest of me. And then I will go to bed. It's not the most exciting life, but I enjoy it and it's mine.

Oh, as long as you're happy. That's what's important. I too have played Dungeons and Dragons. It's a little different when you play as a monster but but please tell me what's your favorite class to play?

I prima-- Well, I only play arcanists so I will only play Sorcerers, wizards and warlocks.

Oh, fantastic.

There are a lot of reasons for that none of which I need to go into right now out of the three of those my favorite currently is the sorcerer, I finally figured out how sorcery points work. And once that actually starts making sense to you, the class just opens up so I'm having fun being a nightmare.

Oh, I may investigate that. I generally play a bard because my snakes and I we make a little bit of a musical chorus we can actually sing when we are role playing, which is fun to do when you're in a safe space with your friends. But of course as a monster when we play we still play Dungeons and Dragons but instead of humans going in and--or humans and elves and others other made up species--instead of of them going into a dungeon to defeat monsters. We play a group of monsters who go into churches and and and slay asshole destructive humans. I think you might enjoy playing the game that way. If you ever want to please let me know. I'd love to invite you into a session as a human. What's your favorite human invention of say the last 200 years? One of my favorite inventions, of course is mirrored sunglasses. I like a good pair of aviators. I look just like Tom Cruise in Top Gun if Tom Cruise was well, feminine presenting, but what's your favorite human invention of the last 200 years or so?

You know honestly I think my favorite human invention of the last 200 years or so if we are not going for specific things because for specific things. I just have to say my little pony and we move on but apart From that, is honestly the portable music player. I think that one of the greater errors we have made in the last 20 or so years, is pivoting away from portable music players as their own thing and into this idea that it's an add on for your phone, that you need to not keep those battery sources separate and distinct. Being able to walk around with hundreds of hours of music, of audiobooks, of all of this information just at your fingertips. People don't realize what an incredible advantage that is, over humans and individuals of earlier eras.

Oh, wow, I never thought about that. I still have my my iPod. And I still have an original Sony Walkman from the 80s. Because I don't know if you know this, but Gorgons we're not immortal. But we live about on average about 200 years or so. So I was a young adult in the era where these portable music devices first came out, and I've never been able to get rid of them or donate them. I love them. So I'm with you there. Oh, goodness, I see

They were your friends.

Yeah. And it was a great way for me to Well, when I just really wasn't feeling up to dealing with humans, I would just put on my headphones and listen to some Christopher cross. Oh, goodness, I am old. To the young listeners even know who that is. Google it. Young humans. If you as a human could be a monster or cryptid for a day or even forever. Or a supernatural creature of any kind. Would you be one and what would you be?

I mean, who wouldn't be one honestly, depending on what kind of supernatural powers you're getting. If it's one from my own work, I just go full cuckoo, like give me psychic powers and the ability to blend into anything I will be the world's best ambush predator. Apart from that I would love to be a dragon it might make typing a little bit harder. But I have dealt with typing problems before and there is voice to tech software, make me the size of a bus and give me the ability to fly. And then let's see who makes cracks about my weight at the next Hugo party.

Oh my goodness, humans can be so cruel to each other. I must say one of the things I love about being a Gorgon is fatphobia there's just none of that bullshit in our community. I wish humans could be that way too. Because what the fuck humans really, Really?

What the fuck humans really is possibly the truest thing you've said today.

Oh thank you. I didn't know I was lying this whole time. Anyway, um, I do I do know a dragon I wouldn't call her a friend but but she's an acquaintance. And she can type because she has a custom made keyboard. It's gigantic. It's bigger than my entire apartment. It's quite remarkable. But But then again, she comes from a lot of old money and lives in a very large cave. But oh, if you've ever ever ever had the opportunity to see a dragon keyboard, and don't even get me started on the monitor. It's huge. So amazing. She blogs she likes to blog.

Very cool.

So I before we move on to the horoscope with my roommate, I'd like to go a little deep. What is it that scares you the most? What is your worst fear?

Pudding.

Oh pudding? Oh pudding? Oh goodness. Oh, I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about oh, now I'm thinking about geese. And geese are horrifying. Oh goodness. Pudding any specific kinds of pudding they're all kind of scary

Pudding. Just pudding.

How about gelatin or just pudding specifically

Just pudding specifically it is the texture of pudding it is viscerally upsetting in a way that makes no sense. But that is the whole point of a fear.

Yeah, that's one of those human foods that I'm like, if I ever came across it at a potluck or something would be a hell no from me. Oh goodness. I thought I was alone in that. I feel less alone in the universe now. Thank you.

Oh good.

So umm in this difficult time in the world and both the human world and the monster and cryptid world. What's what's been getting you through it?

I decided a long time ago since the impending end of this planet is coming the Armada will arrive soon. That while it is still here and we still have the option to do things with it. We should take as much joy out of the world as we possibly can. Do not kill the part of you that is cringe kill the part of you that cringes you know just embrace your street pennies and embrace your joy. So mostly what's been getting me through it is stuff. My Little Ponies and dice. I actually managed to buy I A Dance Dance Revolution machine which is something I've wanted for about 20 years. I have a DDR extreme mix 2 machine in my garage. Her name is baby I am her second owner and I love her very much. And that's a lot of how I'm getting through is focusing on the frivolous I am keeping myself safe as best I can. I am trying to keep the people that I care about safe. I am making sure that my cats are well fed and happy. And I am focusing on frivolous shiny bullshit. And some of my frivolous shiny bullshit is just absolutely bizarre. Your listeners can't see because we are not video recording for which I am very grateful because I have not brushed my hair today. But I am holding up a generation one My Little Pony specifically as the yellow generation one my little pony with pink hair and fast food painted all over it. So anyone who knows G one would recognize this as a twice as fancy munchy except for the fact that it's in the wrong pose! ha ha ha Gotcha. There's a customizer in Switzerland who is specializing right now in recreating generation one my little ponies using different generation one My Little Pony bodies as bases. So this is a counterfeit munchie she is absolutely perfect as a munchie but she doesn't technically exist and I love her passionately.

That that is you are so weird.

Yes!

That's wonderful. Oh, so embrace your weird and focus on being happy.

Yep.

Oh, I think that's fantastic. Okay, please don't tell my cousin. But do you have any Pegasus? My Little Ponies?

I have so many Pegasus ponies.

Okay, we were I hope Pegasus isn't listening because you know, Pegasus gets no royalties from that at all. That is so wrong.

I mean,

I want you to continue enjoying them but I also just want you to be aware of that maybe you can become an advocate for pegasi. Pegasus getting some some of that fat fat My Little Pony money that

Pegasus unfortunately did not go through the legal process of trademarking his own his own likeness, and penances my little ponies are not representations of Pegasus as an individual. They are not sculpted to match him. You know, I don't get royalties from every monster High, Venus McFlytrap doll that's sold, just because they are a human shaped plant. Little Shop of Horrors. I was not taken on as a consultant. I did volunteer, they didn't want me. Yeah. So it's a whole thing that you have to protect your likeness if you don't want people doing that.

You know what

There have been Gorgon fashion dolls.

Oh, I am aware. Some of them are. Okay. But no as a community Gorgons we get we get nothing for those representations. Just so you know, Pegasus goes by they pronouns. And and also, Pegasus is really well, Pegasus and I despite being family, we disagree on on humans. And Pegasus tends to want to stay away from humans. But perhaps I should tell Pegasus that, hey, you might want to get to know some human lawyers. So so thank you for that that might be helpful for their bottom line.

They might want to do that. It is unfortunate that Pegasus was seized on as the generic for a horse with wings. But Hippalectryon was harder to say. And so people just didn't go in that direction.

I know I struggle with language myself. For example, I don't know Greek, and I'm trying to learn. But when your mouth has been well, speaking one language for a long time, it's a little hard to get it to speak another language. So yes, I can understand why humans much like us. Gorgons go for the easy pronunciation of a thing. Peg is a lot easier to pronounce then. Well, whatever word you just said.

Hippalectryon

Hippalectryon Oh, yeah, I know that that hipp-- that as that's horse. Yeah. And in Greek, right. That's why hip, hippopotamus,

That's the more generic winged horse that showed up throughout Greek mythology.

Yes, yes, though. There is only one Pegasus.

Yep.

According to Pegasus, of course. So perhaps I should take that with a grain of salt. They were a little into themselves. Yeah. Oh, but anyway, I shouldn't speak of family like that. So what advice would you give to humans and, well. What you would call cryptids in the world, what advice would you give all of us for just getting through? In addition to shiny pony things

Collect shiny things. It can feel really nice in the moment to be an asshole It can feel amazing to know that you said the smart thing and made someone else Shut up that you said the cutting thing and everyone knew you were smart, whatever it can feel amazing in the moment you will feel terrible after it is the eating cotton candy of being a person. Choose kindness when you can. I'm not asking you to be fake. I'm not asking you to go around being artificially sticky sweet at people all the time. But choose kindness, say yes to things. Try to be generous. Try not to be an asshole. And if you have an option to make a choice that makes other people around you safer and more comfortable. You should take it unless it does material harm to you.

Oh, that's lovely. I, oh, once again, I feel less alone in the world. One of the reasons why I wear my glasses when I'm out amongst humans is simply because I'm wearing them to protect them. That is my way of showing kindness to them. Of course, I would be more comfortable not wearing mirrored sunglasses. I'd love to show my eyes. They're actually I'm being a little egotistical here, but they're actually quite pretty, but I can't show them to my human friends.

Did someone tell you that it's not okay to be proud of the fact that your eyes are pretty, that's not egotistical, if you're just stating a fact. You know, I have fantastic skin. I've never had bad breakouts, I don't have any major skin discolorations nothing like that. I can get by without foundation makeup. That is a nice thing about myself. It is not egotistical to say you have lovely eyes that you can't show me because if you did, I would turn to stone and that would be very awkward for my editors. But it's not egotistical to say I have lovely eyes. I wish I could show them to you. I wish I could do some of those makeup looks that I see the humans doing on YouTube that would be really pleasing to do. I could paint my eyes to match my snakes, that would be gorgeous. But if I did that I would kill everyone I care about you know that that's not inappropriate. You should be proud of yourself and of the things that are about you that are cool. Always.

Oh, you're so inspirational. Um, sometimes if I know I'm not going out. And even sometimes when I know I am, I will I will give myself what's called a cat eye. I've actually gotten quite good with liquid eyeliner. It's kind of fun to just well put on makeup just because you want to. And yes, sometimes I wish I could share it with my human friends. But oh, thank you so much. My, my family is well they're very big on on not being too showy and egotistical and everything. So I am a little over sensitive about that. I should be proud of the fact that my snakes despite not being human hair can style themselves. That is something cool about me that you Seanan.

That's an advantage over humans quite frankly. You know, I mentioned I'm glad that your listeners can't see me because I haven't brushed my hair today. It tangles if you look at me funny

Oh, I wouldn't know my quote unquote hair speaks to me but never tangles which I guess is very nice.

Probably good for its bones too

Seanan. This has been just so enlightening and wonderful. Thank you so much. Um, do you have a moment to stick around for a glimpse into the future?

Certainly.

Okay, because my, my roommate, who luckily is what humans would describe as blind is an Oracle

Only physically!

only physically Yes, yes. You and your third eye which luckily I cannot petrify you know what Sibyl. Seanan's put me in a very positive frame of mind. And so I want to say that I do appreciate you sometimes.

Aww thank you Penny. I appreciate you too. You're a great roommate.

Yeah. Okay, so sometimes, so. Yeah, Seanan, what Sibyl does is Sybil will foretell your future with a horoscope?

Yes, I do the horoscope segment, which is, of course, everyone's favorite segment of this podcast. And

of course

the way that I do it is I open the way for the gods to send me visions by ingesting some sort of substance and I like to change things up and experiment with what substances give me different kinds of visions. So today, I have already snorted crushed dreams. And in order to do that, I found a floppy disk that someone had put a dream journal on and I crushed it and now I've snorted it. So it should be kicking in at any second now.

Good. Remember our discussion of poisonous versus venomous I think Sibyl might be about to experience that distinction.

Oh, I don't see any problems in my future.

Ok Sibyl. Do I need to call? Um, well, I don't know what kind of doctor an Oracle would call but you are human looking.

That would be poison control. I I appreciate you channeling your gifts through whatever mechanism you have. Please don't ingest crushed parts of computers. They are mostly made of heavy metals and toxic things and there is a good chance you've done yourself permanent organ damage

too late, too late. She's snorted worse. Okay, too.

I have Yeah. All right. So you know to continue my explanation. thank you Penny, I open the way by ingesting some sort of substance and then the gods give me visions that I kind of categorize via the horoscope so I don't actually believe in well, it's not so much that I don't believe in it, but my gift does not use the stars or astrology. It just takes the vision straight from the gods but I use the horoscope to categorize the people that I am giving these visions to. So basically when I give the horoscope for Aquarius, all of the Aquarius listeners get a vision and they all get melded into one amalgamation of all of their futures. And then I give them that. So whatever vision I get is going to be true for every Aquarius, but often in different ways. So sometimes it's kind of more metaphorical. And sometimes it's very literal.

It's always bullshit though, Seanan just so you know, okay, sorry, Sibyl. Go ahead.

I mean, have you ever read any horoscopes? They're, they're usually pretty vague. So I don't know that mine is any weirder than anyone else's, but

Oh, no, it's definitely weirder

Seanan, what sign are you?

Capricorn

All right, lovely. I will start with Capricorn then. Ah, okay. Getting a vision now. Capricorn. I am seeing a swamp and floating in the air above the water. It kind of looks like a rat. Oh, have you ever seen the Princess Bride? It's got very ROUS vibes. But it's sort of floating in mid air. And there's a lot of smoke around it kind of purple smoke. So I don't know what that means. It might be that you're going to meet some interesting rodents in the future. For some Capricorn that's probably the case. Or it might be something more metaphorical. So let's move on to--

The rat wasn't on fire. This is good. This is good.

No, no, just purple smoke.

Okay, just purple smoke. Good. Okay, that's a start.

All right. Aquarius Aquarius. For your future, I am seeing a beautiful rose colored light falling on a path through a forest. And the trees are made of stained glass. This is lovely, but it looks kind of sharp. So there might be some meaning behind that where there's something beautiful but potentially dangerous in your future. And because there's a path it might mean that you're going to have to find your way through this.

Okay, maybe Aquarians should stay away from churches maybe with stained glass windows. Okay. Be careful out there. Aquarius,

alright, Pisces Pisces this one. It looks like a city. And there's a building kind of far away in the vision. So I don't know if it's something that's going to immediately affect you Pisces or something that you're just going to be made aware of. But it looks like this is a large building that's in the process of I don't know collapsing, dissolving but pretty thoroughly dissolving into like dust. I don't know, I guess. Just kind of stay close to home. Maybe Pisces?

What if the home is the building that's dissolving?

Well, it is off in the distance so probably at least for most Pisces. Probably not. But for some Pisces. It's entirely possible.

Is it in the distance though? Sybil is it really?

Yes,

Is it?

Yes.

Okay. Okay, good. Good. He. Oh, this is fun to fuck with you. Oh, what's next?

Alright, Aries Aries I am seeing. It looks kind of like a race car. But it's like all these interesting colors like this bright pink and kind of a soft blue. But it does look kind of like it might be melting. I don't know. Be careful with how fast you go.

Okay, and avoid dissolving buildings and rats and swamps. Okay, okay, good. This is

Oh, I don't know if you need to avoid the swamp rats that might

Yeah, the swamp rat seems like a friend.

Yeah, that might be okay.

Okay, you had true it wasn't on fire. Okay, we'll take what we can get. What's next?

Alright, Taurus. Taurus. I am seeing well, this one It's just a little bit out of focus for me. So I can't tell if this person is wearing a spacesuit or a hazmat suit, or like an mecha kind of a robot body, but they are holding some kind of really big mechanism. It looks kind of like if the engine of a car was crossed with a spider. So I don't know where to begin with this one. I don't know how to interpret this, but Taurus, you know, keep an eye out for all of those things, I guess.

Wow. When Sibyls confused that's that's, I of course, don't mind snakes. But spiders are, are not my favorite creature. Great. Okay, I'm going to try to shake that image from my mind. What's what's next in this horrible, horrible horoscope?

Next step is Gemini which happens to be my sign. But of course, my visions for just me are usually a little more clear and specific, because they're not melded with other people's. But for Gemini in general, I am seeing it looks like a slot machine. It's it's very pretty actually. It's kind of got some really cool colors in it. More pinks and blues. I don't know those. Those crushed dreams seem to be color themed for some reason. So yeah, a slot machine, but it does look like it's outside somewhere in the desert. So you may have some luck coming. I can't tell if it's good or bad. But some luck coming in an unexpected place would be how I would interpret that one.

Oh, someone's taking a trip to Las Vegas. What's next

I don't know if that would be unexpected, but you never know. Cancer is

So a surprise trip to Vegas. Okay.

Yeah. Cancer. I am seeing Oh, this one doesn't look that interesting. I'm just seeing a traffic jam. There's a gas station over there. But mostly it's just a lot of cars just kind of waiting. So I don't know. Give yourself extra time to get to wherever you're going cancer

and surprise trip to Los Angeles. Perhaps coming back from Las Vegas. Okay, good. So far. We are fire free with these horoscopes. This is wonderful. Sybil. Keep going. I appreciate you.

Alright, Leo, Leo, I see a lovely picnic spread laid out for you. It looks like there are sandwiches and there are burgers and some nice beverages. There's some kind of creature that's approaching the picnic. That looks kind of like it's hard to describe. It's like if a human had the jaws of like an alligator, so their mouth is really stretched. And toothy.

Okay, that's very Egyptian god, at least according to human mythologies. Okay, then, moving on.

Virgo, Virgo, I see, Oh, this one's kind of cool. I'm seeing a vision in black and white. This doesn't happen very often. So yeah, there's a house. And it looks kind of in disrepair. And it's got a nice little porch out front. And there's something moving in the window. So I think this house might be haunted. At least for some Virgos you might be having a haunted house in your future. And for others of you, it might just mean that you've got a house that you're going to have to fix up or something like that. Oh,

I've secretly always wanted to flip a haunted house. But I probably wind up just living in it myself. I mean, the ghosts could talk to my snakes and give me a little bit of a break.

That's true.

Who's next Sibyl

Libra Libra. This was pretty straightforward. Visually speaking. I am just seeing a pile of treasure. It's like gold coins. Mostly some silver in there. I don't know. Libra. You might have some windfalls coming. I can't think of I mean, I'm sure there is a negative interpretation of this to be wary of, but for the most part, this one seems good.

I know what's wrong with keeping it positive once in a while.

Absolutely. Alright, Scorpio, Scorpio, okay, this vision is taking me to outer space. I always enjoy when that happens. I am seeing there are stars and there's some rocks that might be I don't know, asteroids, perhaps. And there is someone which I'm guessing is representing you Scorpio who is walking just in the vacuum and seems to be walking toward the stars in the distance. So I don't know maybe this is just telling you to reach for the stars Scorpio.

Oh, or maybe it's a reference to Seanan who is also from space. Wink. Oh,

that's a good point. I mean, maybe

The Armada is on Route. Maybe we'll just eat the Scorpios first.

Yeah, maybe. All right. We've only got one left. So we've got Sagittarius. Sagittarius. I am seeing a barn and it looks like If the severed head of a goat is on a stick, kind of just in the middle of this barn

Everything was fine. And then then and now we've got goats on sticks. What the fuck Sibyl?

Yeah. I mean, the more violent or gory visions aren't always doom. I mean, probably for a lot of Sagittarius. This isn't a great sign.

It was doom for the goat.

Well, I don't know if there's a literal goat involved. Maybe goats don't get harmed in this in the making of this vision. I don't know. It's just a vision from the gods. So I can't really tell that part.

Oh, the gods do often have it in for goats. Yes. No goats were harmed in the making of this podcast. I just want to be clear.

That is very true. So yeah, that's a pretty quick horoscope. I want to get through those in a reasonable amount of time this week. I haven't had a chance to eat dinner yet. And I don't know my my nose doesn't feel great after snorting the floppy disk shards.

So yeah, maybe we should grab some.

Please don't eat floppy disks!

Yeah, let's let's um, let's grab some food on the way to a human urgent care clinic and maybe have that that nose of yours. checked out? Yeah, cuz I've heard when, when humans have like dead roommates. There's a lot of what they call paperwork involved. And I don't have time for that.

And who would pay the other half of the rent.

Yes, that's, that's, that's terrifying. Thank you for bringing that up. Unfortunately, my snakes can't get jobs. Anyway, I know rent is tough for humans as well. So yes, let's not die. Sibyl okay, maybe maybe consult me before you snort anything. Just just maybe, maybe talk to me about it

I can see the future, Penny. It's gonna be okay.

Oh, okay.

Right. Maybe it's gonna be okay. Because she takes you to urgent care?

Well, either way.

Yes, I found that with humans to be true as well. A lot of the things that they ascribe to supernatural beings are simply humans helping each other out. They will thank the gods when it was just a doctor that saved their lives. So maybe maybe that's something where we can not be like humans in that regard. And let's get your dumb ass to urgent care center. Okay, let's go. But first, let's say goodbye to our amazing guest. I'm still so honored to have had a human on the show. Thank you, Seanan Maguire for taking the time to well just talk about us, all of us.

Thank you for having me. I do genuinely appreciate it.

I am I going to go look up purchasing some My Little Pony dolls. Please don't tell my cousin Pegasus. Okay. I will thank you all for listening. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sybil. Thank you, Seanan, and all of you. Monster and human. Be kind to each other. Thank you for listening to the Gorgon show.

The Gorgon show with me. Penny cephalonia is a proud member of the Faustian nonsense network. You can find us on Twitter at @Gorgon show, or email us with questions and comments at Gorgon show at Faustian. nonsense.com all music in the Gorgon show is by TJ The Empathic vampire. You can find more of his work linked in the show notes. Thank you for listening to the Gorgon show

Transcribed by https://otter.ai