There's a pattern worth naming. Coaches who are struggling with their business almost always assume the problem is in the coaching. They need better skills, a different certification, and more training. So they hire another coach.

The business keeps struggling.

In this episode of The Coaching Clinic, John and Angie dig into why the problems most coaches and speakers face are business problems, not delivery problems, and why the people who are hardest to help are often the ones who can't see that from where they're standing.

John shares his own experience hiring consultants and ongoing mentors to address specific business outcomes, and why he sees a clear distinction between coaching, mentoring and consulting as different tools for different purposes.

What you'll take away from this episode:

• Why coaches default to improving their craft when the real problem is in the business structure
• How being "in the game" makes it nearly impossible to see where you're going wrong
• What to look for in a business consultant, and how to de-risk the investment
• Why AI flattery is not a substitute for someone who actually knows what they're talking about
• The difference between coaching, mentoring and consulting, and when each one is the right fit
• Why even experienced practitioners reach a point where external perspective becomes essential
• What track record and outcome-specific guarantees should look like before you hire anyone

Whether you're just starting out, years into your coaching practice, or wondering why growth has plateaued despite strong client work, this episode is worth your time.

Chapters:

0:00 - Introduction to Business Coaching

0:16 - John's Experience with Consultants

0:49 - Angie's Perspective on Coaching

4:00 - Challenges in Transitioning Industries

7:50 - The Importance of Mentors and Guides

11:15 - Evaluating Expertise and Track Records

13:33 - Closing Thoughts

FAQ SECTION

Frequently Asked Questions

When should a coach hire a business consultant rather than another coach?

John Ball and Angie discuss in this episode of The Coaching Clinic that coaches should consider a business consultant when their growth has stalled despite strong delivery and client outcomes. The distinction they make is that coaching addresses mindset, behaviour and personal development, while consulting provides specific direction based on real-world experience with the problem you're facing. Ball argues that most coaching business problems are business problems, not craft problems, and treating them as the latter wastes time. The right moment to bring in a consultant is before the alarms are sounding, not after resources have been exhausted.

Why do coaches and speakers focus on improving their delivery skills instead of fixing their business?

According to John Ball on The Coaching Clinic, coaches and speakers default to improving their craft because that is the area they understand best and have the most control over. The coaching part of a coaching business feels familiar; the business mechanics do not. This creates a bias toward solutions like speaker coaching, charisma training or further certification, even when the actual problem is client acquisition, positioning or conversion. Ball argues that if you cannot clearly identify the problem from inside the business, you need external eyes, not more delivery practice.

What should coaches look for when vetting a business consultant?

John Ball states on The Coaching Clinic that a business consultant should be vetted on two criteria: a demonstrable track record with the specific outcome you need, and some form of guarantee or outcome commitment attached to their work. He distinguishes this from coaching, where the work is exploratory, and the answers are drawn out from the client. A consultant should be able to say what result they can help you achieve. Ball warns against consultants who rely primarily on AI-generated insight without real-world experience to back it up.

How does having an outside perspective help coaches grow their business?

John Ball and Angie use the football pitch analogy in this episode: when you are on the playing field, you cannot see the whole game. An external consultant, mentor or advisor can see patterns, blind spots and opportunities that are invisible to the person running the business day to day. Angie reinforces this by reflecting on a long-term client who spent 40 years successfully running a business and still struggled when entering a new sector, because the business model was different, even when the knowledge base was familiar. External perspective is valuable at every stage, not just during a crisis.

Is hiring a business consultant worthwhile even when a coaching business is going well?

John Ball's position on The Coaching Clinic is that consulting is most valuable before things break down, not after. He argues that the question should not be "am I struggling enough to justify this?" but "what am I not seeing that someone with relevant experience could show me?" Angie echoes this, noting that even coaches with a decade of practice are master coaches, not necessarily master business owners. Both hosts recommend treating external consultation as a proactive investment in clarity rather than a reactive rescue operation.

Want to contact the show? You can leave us a voicemail. It's free to do, and we might feature you on our next episode. All you need to do is go to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast and leave us a message. You can also find our clips and full episodes on the exclusive Coaching Clinic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@coachingclinicpodcast

You can send us a video or voice message on LinkedIn:

John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com for coaching enquiries with John

Angie's LinkedIn Profile or visit AngieSpeaks.com

2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: scale your business, acquire high ticket clients & master coaching skills 97

John

Angie.

So I was, you know, you and I have talked so much about so many things regarding business, coaching, having a coaching business. Have you ever considered hiring in a consultant or an expert to guide you?

Not just considered it, I've done it.

⁓ see something new I learned about John today. Well, let's get to it and talk about it in today's episode.

Let's open the clinic.

So, Angie, tell tell me, is this something you've done? Have you hired hired a consultant to help you with your business before?

No, you know what? Not specifically. I mean, I definitely, you know, I've worked with a coach for many years and you know, he kind of worked as a more of a business coach. But you know, interestingly, when I reflect, it wasn't like, hey, let's help you set up your business. It was, you know, what are you avoiding? So it really was an interesting, I guess now that I'm looking back, like a dynamic, but it was not specific to

Hey, how do we get you more clients or set you up for success? Or or or it was really none of that, being being honest. But you now have, you know, finally let the cat out of the bag that you have. So what did that look like? I'm I'm super curious. Yeah.

Yeah.

no not only have I, I I continue to do so. ⁓ there are b particular people I look to to learn the stuff. H here's something important to get up front, because I've I've I've actually been thinking about this recently. So it's interesting that you you suggested this for our our episode today, but I I do have this take of a lot of the problems that we have in business are actually problems with the business and in in coaching and in professional speaking, the areas where where we work and live in.

Yeah.

⁓ a lot of us tend to focus on the bit that we have the most control and knowledge over, which is the coaching part or the speaking part of the stuff, the stuff that you actually do in delivery. This is why, like in speaking, so many people end up in a I just need to tell better stories, I get a speaking coach, or I just need to have more charisma on stage, I get a coach for that. People do it with their coaching as well. I just need a coach. You have to be, you have to be coached to be a coach.

yeah.

You kind of need some specific stuff. The chances are that if you're having some problems with your business, the problem is in the business elements of that business. And if you're not clearly able to identify them, like when you're in it, when you're in it, when you're in the game, it's very hard to see the whole playing field. And this is one of the reasons why we need the coaching, the guide, the external eyes. But when you're kind of in the fog of everything or you're not really seeing where you even need to be, like in a game of football, I mean

Yao.

Soccer, I should say, for our American listeners, but ⁓ if you can't even see where if you can't even see where the goal is, you're not gonna hit it. So so you need to be able to see that and you need to be able to figure out a path to getting to that and you know whoever's gonna be able to help you get closer to it as well. And that's why I think it's always important to look for the right mentors and guides, the people who have done it or show that, hey, look, if this is the result you're looking to get, I can help you get that.

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah.

and if I don't, you know, maybe they have some sort of guarantee to help you get that as well. That's kind of what you really need to look for. You need to de-risk, de-risk that sort of work for yourself and hire someone who actually says they can help you with a specific outcome. And then it's on you to do the work.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that, you know, unfortunately, like all of that is is all true. And I think what happens is we we cherry pick, I need somebody to build a website, for example, or I need somebody to build this or do this. Hopefully you're doing that. Hopefully you're not trying to become like a tech guru and you know, create although now with AI it's much easier than when you and I were fumbling through ancillary administrative work and and that's important, of course. And

You know what we've talked about, like should you have an assistant or some type of person to handle ancillary but necessary components? But here's the thing that made this pop up for me, which is interesting. I have a a high level client yours that is transitioning out of being a, you know, he's a high level person that was in a specific industry. And now, you know, he's transitioning into a different industry.

Completely, it's somewhat related to what his knowledge base was right previously, but the businesses are different. And he's fumbling a little bit. He's like, you know what? I'm feeling a little incompetent. I'm feeling a little like I'm procrastinating. I'm feeling lack of productivity. Because he he's kind of like, wait a minute, I don't really know how to set up this business for success. And he's consulting with me. You know, he and his partner are consulting with me. And

And it was just interesting that, you know, when I I sat and I reflected on that conversation, I thought, isn't it funny? This person has been in business. He's, you know, retired out from the original industry, basically. And so 40 years in that industry and now is kind of again segueing into something else because, you know, he doesn't want to not work or or cre he wants to create legacy for the family, et cetera. So and it is close, you know, it's either closely related.

But it was just interesting that somebody who owned a business for 40 years is kind of struggling and saying, Well, what do I do here? So anyway, even though he's not transitioning into a coaching business, what I have I have experienced with clients, and I'm sure you have as well, is sometimes people do leave a an industry or profession and become coaches because they feel they have the expertise. And there's this assumption, I think, that

Well, I owned one business or I've worked for a large corporation. I can do this. I know how. And we don't know what to your point. We really don't know what we don't know. And it can cost us time and energy. Unfortunately, before people consider a consultant, and I mean the overarching, not the webmaster or somebody like that, right? Where it's like, who's gonna do printing for me if I print out a business card? Just saying. But

They wait until it becomes urgent slash emergent, like it's been eight months, I don't have any clients, and the you know, the fu my resources are running low. Now what? And maybe then, you know, is it time, right? You have to decide, is it time to kind of go into that space and say, maybe I should hire a professional to consult, take a look at what I've created and redirect me. I'm a big fan, like yes, but

You've done it, I haven't in that in that capacity. So even if your business is going well, is it still worthwhile? I certainly think it's like coaching. I can only see what I see. So if somebody can come in with a fresh set of eyes that isn't John, right, that I can ask and say, Hey, what do you think? Or what should I do to amplify or elevate? I think it's worth it. I think it it could be at the beginning, right? When you're just starting out, very valuable.

It shouldn't be when you, you know, when the alarms are sounding. And it can be also even when things are going well. What can we do better? How can we expand? What got us here? Won't get us there. You know, I think there's a there's some real, real value, but to your something you said, can somebody help us? Yes. But I would be very curious as to their track record. Because if you look, everyone's an expert, right? Go on any social or

Google and it's like, ⁓ this one's sponsored, sponsored, sponsored. You to go like layers deep before you even find potentially right ⁓ you know, somebody that could actually help.

Yeah, look, I think a lot of a lot of the best people are some of the bet some of the best kept secrets, unfortunately. but then sometimes that's intentional as well. Like sometimes there's other people that well, I just want to work with people and wanna be referred and recommended rather than building anything up. That is how some people choose to work. ⁓ but but there is a difference. I mean, look, and at any point in your progress progression or any

Yeah, we go.

Yeah.

any point where you're actually working and doing stuff, having a coach is going to be helpful. Having someone you can consult with is going to be helpful. Having a mentor is going to be helpful. But sometimes those things are in seasons, like particularly mentors. We don't need necessarily a mentor all of the time. And there may come a time when we're sort of kind of at the top of the tree. Well who's going to mentor you then? You know then we really are looking more for consultants, advisors, ⁓ people who are going to gonna be real with you. ⁓ but

Yeah, yeah.

If you are at the point where it's like there's stuff that you don't know, but you somebody has trodden that path before you and done it successfully. So you do need to know their track record. It's very different to a coaching situation. Coaching is like, well, you did the answers within you, or do the ontological coaching. But some sometimes you actually do need someone to say, you know what, that what your the path you're mine now isn't gonna really work or it's not gonna work fast enough for you. Here's what you need to try, or here's what you should be doing, or here's what's working in the industry right now.

Yeah.

Ha ha ha.

Sure. Yeah.

And if you are hiring somebody who doesn't actually have that insight or is one of the sort of well I'll just get AI to help me and people will think that I know everything, it won't. It will it will become apparent, you'll become unstuck. A AI is not that person that thing, AI is not your mentor, ⁓ it doesn't have real real world experience either. You need somebody who's in the game who can actually give give give you some next steps.

Correct.

Absolutely. I think finding somebody

absolutely I think and you know me. I mean, if anybody knows me, I don't love being told what to do. but in that case, I would be very I'm being very transparent. If somebody, if I believed and I vetted somebody and I believed that they had the expertise that I do not, I'd you know, they could pie piper me over a cliff probably, but I would be very interested in

i illuminating what I've been missing over a period of time. You know, I have no interest in slowing down. And most people that come into a coaching, the coaching space, I don't know. I think, you know, some people might want a really big, successful, what does that look like? And some people are like, hey, it's just me and I want to keep it manageable. Either way, I think that there are professionals out there. I, you know, and hey, if any of you are listening, we'd love to have you on the show because we'd love to, you know,

Maybe you could share some highlights of of specific, hey, you know, these are some really, you know, top five tangibles that I think people should do coming out of the gate. ⁓ not to give away their trade secrets. I'm just saying, but you know, have that opportunity to kind of diagnostically look at our business structure and see where it's really working and where it could improve, honestly, and where it's not. I mean, you know, if you're not where you want to be, something is not.

Yeah, for sure.

working well and when we're in it, it's like you said, we're on the playing field. It's very different than you know, watching from the stands and saying, ⁓ I saw the whole field. It's very difficult to do that, but certainly worthwhile. I think I convinced myself today.

Look, I got when I when I got my when I got my ⁓

NLP master practitioner certification, one of the many certificates they gave me was business consultant. I don't think that was actually a sufficient qualification to go out into the world and be a business consultant. So I wouldn't accept that from somebody else. But it's not even necessarily about having them having somebody else tell you what to do. It's having the person who can give you the right kind of pushback, who can challenge you in the positive ways and say, you know what?

Sure.

Absolutely.

I'm not 100% convinced by this path you're on. Let's look at some other options or here's what's before. It's not telling you what to do. We're just saying, you know what? This maybe isn't as good as as ChatGPT told you it was. That you know, Chat GPT's been kissing your ass and is telling you that you're amazing, but actually this isn't going to work. It is having that person who can, you know, actually have some kind of relationship with them and they actually know what they're talking about. It is a different kind of relationship to be able to tell you that's gonna work or that's probably not gonna work.

Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

go ahead and try it if you want to. But if you want something that has a bit more reliability, this is what I would recommend. You still have your choices. You still have your own path to take, but you have guidance from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about. I think that's worth a fortune and it could shortcut your journey to bigger results immensely, immensely. So yeah, huge value for me. If you if you can do it, do it.

Absolutely. Yes.

Yeah, I I think it it does. Yeah,

no, I agree. I think it is something that I'm gonna look into next because not that we're fumbling our way through you or I just as examples, folks, and we're not saying that, you know, John and I are like, ⁓ we're the gurus of all things. That's not it. But I would I think it would be very worth me kind of just going through that process, investing or reinvesting in my business and saying, Hey, you're an expert, show me.

If only.

expose what I cannot see from that perspective and build some trust because who knows what I'm missing. I know there's there are things out there that I'm missing and I'm, you know, a tenure you just like you, right? I hours wise, I'm considered a master coach. So but that doesn't mean I'm a master business owner. So, you know, we've talked about that, we've delineated it there, but I definitely think it's super worthwhile, you know, ⁓

Exactly right.

No matter how long you've been a coach. Especially I think if Yeah, do it. Certainly. Yeah. Yeah.

I I would encourage I would encourage any of our listeners to to go and check that stuff out. Angie, we need

to shut the doors on the coaching clinic for this episode, but I I think that's a really important thing we brought up and who knows what we'll be talking about next time.

Curious. I hope that people reach out and say, Hey, I'm a I'm a consultant. I'd love to be on the show. Come on in, ring our bell.

Drop us a line. Yeah, drop us a line