If you run a product-based or e-commerce business and want your marketing to work harder for you, this episode is packed with practical advice. I’m joined by Naomi Davies of NMD Marketing, who specialises in paid social and Klaviyo email for fashion, lifestyle and beauty brands. She shares clear, no-nonsense insights that apply to businesses of any size.

We talk about the basics many brands miss — including email automations, customer journeys and simple improvements that make a big difference. Naomi also explains how organic content and paid ads support each other, and why you can’t rely on ads alone to fix weak messaging or creative.

You’ll learn:

• What to check when auditing your marketing channels
• Why testing needs to be ongoing, not a one-off task
• Why ROAS isn’t the best measure of success — and what to track instead
• How to understand your cost per acquisition (and why it matters)
• How to communicate higher pricing with confidence
• What premium brands get wrong online — and how to avoid those mistakes
• Why showing up as the founder can genuinely improve results

If you want practical steps to improve your marketing, strengthen your positioning and make your brand feel more premium without overcomplicating things, this episode will be really useful.

USEFUL RESOURCES

NMD Marketing Website https://www.nmdmarketing.co.uk/

NMD Marketing Instagram https://www.instagram.com/nmd_marketing/

Naomi Davies LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomimdavies/

LET’S CONNECT

Join my free Facebook group for product makers and creators

Follow me on YouTube

Find me on Instagram

Work with me 

Buy My Book: Bring Your Product Idea To Life

If you enjoy this podcast, and you’d like to leave a tip, you can do so here: https://bring-your-product-idea.captivate.fm/support

Mentioned in this episode:

Hosted by Captivate

If you've been inspired to start a podcast in 2024 then I recommend my podcast host, Captivate. They were my top pick when I started 4 years ago because of how easy it was for a complete novice to get started. I’ve stuck with them because it’s still simple, they keep adding great new features (like the ability to share ads like these!) and it’s been so reliable. When you’re ready to start your own podcast, use the link for a free 7 day trial: https://www.captivate.fm/signup?ref=vickiweinberg&tap_a=53455-ceb3a2

Amazon Made Easy is now open

My membership, Amazon Made Easy is now open. It’s a membership for people who are selling on Amazon (or planning to) and want regular access to support, somewhere to ask questions and talk things through, and a bit of structure and accountability as they grow. Inside, there are live Q&A calls, optional co-working sessions and a small, supportive community. Find out more: https://vickiweinberg.com/membership

membership

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:39

Welcome to the bring your product idea to life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:59

Let's get started. Hi.

So today on the podcast I'm speaking with Naomi Davies, the founder of NMD Marketing, a paid social and klaviyo email agency for fashion, fashion, beauty and luxury brands. So I invited Naomi on to talk about digital marketing, but particularly in the premium space.

So we spoke a lot about what high end means and how you can communicate that you're a high end or premium brand online, which, let's face it, is tricky when people can't see, feel, touch, experience your products. Naomi had a lot of other things to share about digital marketing in general and some fantastic advice. Do not miss her top tip at the end.

It was a brilliant one and something that I think anyone selling products should do. So I really hope you enjoy this episode and I would love now to introduce you to Naomi. So hi Naomi, thank you so much for being here.

Naomi Davies: 00:01:49

Hi Vicki, thank you so much for having me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:52

So can we please start by you giving an introduction to yourself, your business and what you do?

Naomi Davies: 00:01:56

Absolutely. Hi, I'm Naomi. I'm the founder of NMD Marketing.

We are a digital marketing agency which means that we do paid social and email marketing on klaviyo for fashion, beauty, home, lifestyle brands.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:11

Amazing. Thank you.

So there's so many questions I want to cover, Naomi, but I'm going to start, I guess right at the beginning, which is if you were to take on a brand new client, where do you start and what are some of the important things to get right early on?

Naomi Davies: 00:02:24

Sure. So the first thing we do is an audit. That's a channel audit.

So whether that might be email automations or your paid social ad structure, whatever it might be, we will audit that for you. We will look at the creatives, we will look at the setup and we will check how it's been done and if it's meeting best, best practices or not.

There are usually some quick wins that we can put in place very quickly from that. Nearly always there is something that can be improved.

So that's always a first step and then another conversation that is also really useful to have is to establish and align on some goals and understand what that founder really wants from their brand. So do they want to scale, do they want new customers do they want to retain their existing customers?

What do they want to get out of of this activity? So then we can make sure we're tailoring what we do to help reach that goal.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:03:20

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And I think this is will sound like a really basic question, but sometimes I think it's really good to get down to basics.

When you do your audit, what are the areas you look at? So I'm assuming, you know, website, email marketing, what are some of the other things?

I'm asking this purely because there might be somebody who hears us say something and thinks, oh, I haven't even done that one. So I think it's quite a good place to start.

Naomi Davies: 00:03:41

Yeah, I love really getting under the hood of flows or automated emails because there is nearly always a mistake. There's a lot of different elements going on and there's always nearly always. There's nearly also always not best practices being met.

The challenges is that quite often as founders and marketeers we get whisked away in doing some really complicated stuff and actually it's much better to keep things much more streamlined and focused and keeping it basic and keeping it simple. Example, you don't need to have a really complex setup unless you are an enormous, enormous global brand.

Yet time and time again I go in to do an audit and I see a very complex organization of automated emails or a very complex view on segmentation. And sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it.

So quite often it's like, okay, this is too complicated, we need to pull it back and just make sure that the basics are working. And then we can add all the nice bolt ons. But quite often we find that, that the setup is unnecessarily complex for the actual needed execution.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:52

That makes sense. And see, automated emails wasn't even something that I'd considered.

Do you find the opposite as well that there are brands who don't have any automation set up?

Naomi Davies: 00:05:01

Yes, absolutely, 100%. I've done a few audits over the last few weeks actually and I've been surprised at how few automations were running.

And even then within those very low amount of automation that they had, there was still some quite glaring issues that I was picking up on.

So yes, it is very common, although nowadays most people do have a welcome series and most people do have an abandoned checkout and an abandoned browse, which is great. And it's really like the absolute non negotiable basics that you need. So that's always really Good to see. And I nearly always see that nowadays.

But there are times when, yes, there is just a welcome email and it's. There's a lot of work that needs to be done.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:45

Thank you. And thank you for explaining what some of the key ones are as well, because that was going to be my next question.

Not to dwell on this too much, but I think this. I'm hoping that, you know, for everyone listening, there will be things where they think, oh, actually I could look at that.

So thank you for going through those. So I'd like to talk a little bit more about digital marketing, a bit broader. What's your take on organic marketing versus paid marketing?

So is one more valuable than the other? Would you say?

Naomi Davies: 00:06:10

They really do feed each other and there's no winner? No one is. No one is better than the other.

Paid tends to scale what's already working organically and you can't fix a weak creative or you can't fix a weak sales week with paid. So you need both of them to work hand in hand. Paid can't come in as a saviour and sort out your business. It just won't work like that.

So there is ultimately a halo effect between the two and they work really well hand in hand. But you do need to have good foundational organic socials before you can really start amplifying it with paid.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:55

That makes a lot of sense because I guess if something isn't working organically, just paying to get more eyes on it might not necessarily do anything other than cost you more money.

Naomi Davies: 00:07:05

Yeah, totally. You end up spending money on something that isn't working anyway. So focus on what is working and put money behind that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:13

That makes a lot of sense. So talking about success in digital marketing, how can we measure it beyond just getting clicks and sales?

Is there anything else that I'm thinking for someone who's maybe running some kind of ads and is thinking, okay, are these working for me? Are there any other measures of success that aren't just people clicking and buying?

Naomi Davies: 00:07:33

Yeah, absolutely. So the core KPI that I absolutely love is your is knowing your cost per acquisition.

So this means that you then know how much you can afford to spend on acquiring a new customer and making sure that that is profitable as much and as profitable as possible for you. A lot of people focus on roas return on ad spend. However, that can be quite a misleading figure. It ignores volume and it also h cost efficiencies.

So for example, you could have a really high roas, but that ad might have only generated two Orders.

Well, that's not a great ad, but an ad that is getting you a lot of new customers in at a profitable level could actually have quite an average looking roas. But knowing that what you can afford to spend to acquire that customer is so, so vital for then scaling and.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:27

Growing your brand, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And how do you work out your cost per acquisition? Is it something that's easy to explain or. Not really.

Naomi Davies: 00:08:35

There are loads of calculators out there. I also have a calculator as well. But you can also go to your accountant and ask them to help you work it out.

But that would take a long time and a lot of effort and a lot of work. So there are calculators out there.

They are usually fairly accurate within a few pounds, which to be honest in most cases is absolutely perfect for what you need. So you can always come to me and ask if you need help with the calculator.

But basically you need a few core stats such as your fulfillment costs, credit card costs, your returns rate, things like your cogs, and then obviously you'll know your margin based off that too. So they're the sort of core stats that you need and then we can put them in to account.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:18

Amazing. Thank you. Because I'm sure everyone's going to have those stats, but whether they've actually worked out the cost per acquisition, I don't know.

That sounds so fundamental if you're looking to do anything paid.

Naomi Davies: 00:09:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:31

And is that something you should really know before you start paying for ads or is that something that you'll learn as you go along?

Naomi Davies: 00:09:41

It's most of the time brands don't know this before they start and it's not a bad thing, like it happens, but knowing it at some point is really valuable. So yes, really do do that calculation and find it out, but you don't.

It's not necessary at the very, very beginning, especially if you're a new brand and you're just starting out, you might, there might be some flexibility within that. So working out at some point in your journey, I would very much recommend that makes it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:10

And I think you're right, as a new brand, it's probably going to be very hard to work it out because perhaps you don't have enough data to give, you know, to give you the answer anyway. But I suppose maybe at least knowing how much you can afford to pay per acquisition might be useful before you start doing anything paid.

Naomi Davies: 00:10:27

Yes, absolutely. Especially if cash flow is tight and you want to make sure that you are getting those customers in profitably, then do have a look.

It's also useful to know because you'll then be able to see how much you're actually spending per customer. And you might see that actually you're way, way over what you need it to be. And then it's a case of working that down and how you can improve it.

So there's a lot that can be done once you know what that allowable is.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:53

Thank you.

So with digital marketing a bit broader, what do you think from what you experience almost at the end of the year, what have you seen that's been really good this year? What do you think that brands that are doing it well are doing?

And second part of the question, I guess, is, do you think that will continue on into next year?

Naomi Davies: 00:11:13

So something that has become wildly apparent this year more than ever is testing as a constant. So the brands that are not afraid to try something new are the ones that are doing really well.

So it does mean having to make some uncomfortable decisions and sometimes moving a bit away from your brand book. But that's when you can really start to learn something new.

So the brands that we've worked with that have done well, have stepped out of that comfort, comfort zone and created ads and emails that are a little bit different to what the norm has been for them historically, but also then testing that constantly.

So trying out something new and testing it versus something else, having that, having that habit of testing is absolutely paramount to doing really well on digital marketing at the moment.

Secondly, the other thing that I'm seeing that works really well is knowing your customer really, really well and then tailoring your information and your product and your communications towards that, also really, really important.

So know your customer and listen to the feedback you're getting from them as well, and then tailor that content that you're creating towards that, and then test on top of that too. And that's a really great sort of process and cycle of way that you can work? And that's what I'm seeing working.

next few months as well. Into: 2026

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:41

That's so interesting.

And I can definitely see how knowing your customer probably gives you a bit more confidence to test as well, because you kind of get maybe more of an idea of what might work and what might not. Other than that, what I'm just really curious in your take on why you think this is working so well, because I know what you mean.

I've definitely seen. I can't think of a good Example off top of my head.

But I've definitely seen things from brands this year where I've gone, oh, that was a bit different. There was something on Instagram, I forget the really caught my attention a few months ago. I think it was a new product launch.

And just the way they did it really stuck with me. Not stuck with me enough. I can remember who it was, but that's me. That's a reflection of me. Knows nothing on them. Yeah.

Why do you think it is that these are. This is working so well at the moment?

Naomi Davies: 00:13:24

It's just because there's so much content out there nowadays and so much of it is fairly brand driven in that the brand is telling you what it wants you to feel. See, want.

However, if you flip that around, thinking, okay, we know our customer wants this and this is the problem that they have, and so we're going to speak to them in that way and that we are solving that issue or we are giving them value in an area that we know that they are struggling with, then it immediately repositions that communication and the way in which that's portrayed, because there is just a lot of very average content out there and we're all guilty of it.

And so if you can then really get that special piece of content that really speaks to your customer on a really personal level, then that's where you can really start to make that difference. It's very, very hard. Very, very, very hard. But if you can try, then you can develop and test and learn on top of that to then make the difference.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:20

Yeah, I can see that's very hard.

I'm very brave as well, I'd say, particularly if you're stepping up a little bit outside of your brand guidelines or your tone of voice or whatever it is. I think that's a big decision to make, actually.

Naomi Davies: 00:14:31

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I can. I would highly recommend giving it a go.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:38

Thank you. I'd like to talk a little bit about pricing, if that's okay. And not so much as how you price.

Price your products, but in terms of how you position your products. I know this is something that founders often struggle with, particularly if their pricing is more at the higher end.

And I guess a sort of a general question is, do you think your brand positioning online, on your socials and your emails and your marketing affects what customers perceive the value of your product to be and therefore what they're willing to pay?

Naomi Davies: 00:15:07

Yes, absolutely.

And it is trickier online to portray that brand value because you're stuck within a Shopify template or A woocommerce template or whatever website you're on. And then you've got imagery that is static. And quite a lot of these sort of higher price point items need to be touched and seen in real life.

So portraying that is. And positioning that is really challenging in a digital environment.

What I would recommend as a way of helping get that value across is really leaning into craftsmanship stories, any kind of storytelling that you can give, anything about values that you can provide as well. So maybe you offer styling advice or maybe you offer interior design services, services on top of the product that you're selling.

So really try and make sure that you are giving as much value but also being as clear as possible about where your product is from the traceability, the fabrics used or the components, wherever they're coming from. So make sure you're telling that story really clearly. Portraying that storytelling behind your product and your brand, that really helps.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:17

That makes a lot of sense. And I guess the visuals are also important in terms of, you know, portraying what you.

I'm trying to think of the right words, but I think what I'm trying to say is because I guess the visual side is also as important as the word is what I'm trying to say because you can, you know, you can have the nice, beautifully crafted text all about the craftsmanship and all the care that goes into your product, but if the imagery doesn't match that, then there's still a bit of a disconnect.

Naomi Davies: 00:16:42

Yeah, absolutely. Imagery is, is really important and somewhere that I do see a lot of brands fall down on, it's a really challenging one.

So if it's not doesn't come natural to you, then make sure you work with someone who is able to help you get that elevated look and feel that you need.

And making things as consistent as possible and using the same background colors, the same resizing imagery to all be the sort of right sizes, the right compositions, colors, lighting, all that type of stuff all really helps too. What I find with the creative part, though, it really is a journey and what looks good now won't look good this time next year.

You'll probably look back and think, oh, that's not where we are anymore. And obviously you're. You're only getting. Each shoot you do is only going to be better and better. So you're probably not.

Don't feel the pressure to go in like a 10 out of 10, like, you know you've got. You will build and evolve your creative visuals as you go as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:39

That makes sense. So do you Think your marketing can create the perceived value or does it just communicate it? If you see the difference.

Naomi Davies: 00:17:48

It can create value when it's done really well. And that's down to how you can do that storytelling, the visuals, the craftsmanship really going into that.

A lot of brands that I know really shy away from those kind of messages, yet that's where you can really start creating value for your brand if when you tell those stories really well. But ultimately digital marketing can only really enhance what's already there. So you do need a strong brand in existence already.

Like you can't just start making up stuff or you just can't just. It can fall very flat very quickly if you don't have enough brand purpose behind you or brand value and information.

So when you have lots of services and value to give, it makes the digital marketing easier and more effective. So you do need to have a strong brand behind it. It can't just as again, as I mentioned with paid social, it can't just cover the cracks for you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:40

That makes sense.

I guess for anyone who's thinking about the digital marketing having making sure you've got your brand foundations in place is the first step before you even think about doing anything.

Naomi Davies: 00:18:51

100%. Yeah, absolutely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:54

Thank you. Now I sometimes I'm going to stick on this project such surprise if that's the case.

I mean, I speak to lots of brands and I know something that people often are concerned about is they need to charge a bit more because cost of materials are going up and things are getting more expensive. But they're worried about losing customers should they put their pricing up. Do you have any advice for that?

Have you had brands you've worked with that have been in a similar scenario and how do we handle that?

Naomi Davies: 00:19:20

Yeah, we've had a few clients over the last year that have had to implement price increases and we have had to think about how we communicate that really carefully. They're all for valid reasons and the brands have had really good reasoning behind it. And we've just had to be open and honest with the customers.

So for example is as simple as sending an email out to all customers saying due to XYZ we will be increasing our prices by whatever percent on this date. And then usually it's an invitation to shop before the prices change.

So we would then say like, look, you know, if you want to make the most of it, shop now, this weekend for example, to avoid paying the higher prices. We find that when it's not communicated, especially your loyal and existing customers can get a bit frustrated. So do communicate it.

And we often find that people appreciate the transparency and the honesty of the founder coming from, coming from the founder as well. It can, it's also a really nice touch. If it just comes from the brand. It can feel a little bit, a bit robotic.

So try, you know, do make it from the founder or the owner so that then it's as sort of heartfelt as possible.

But then once you have increased your prices, it's then explaining the why behind the price so you know the process, the materials, the people making it. That transparency again builds up trust. And on top of that you can also share your value in other ways.

So it might be, you might offer, you might have amazing packaging that is just absolutely gorgeous, or you might have styling advice or really great content that actually provides value to your customers. So it's the whole package basically that can then allow you to increase that price more confidently.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:10

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you and I'm with you. A brand that I follow, I got an email, I think it was last week from the founder.

It's a jewelry brand they were talking about the price of gold was increasing, so therefore the gold products were going to increase in price. And it was exactly as you said. It was shot by this time to lock in current prices. If you shop after then the prices will go up.

And as a customer I didn't think anything, I didn't think, oh my gosh, I can't believe they're putting their prices up. I just thought, oh good, good to know, good to know now. Good to have a chance to buy things at the current price. It just feels quite reasonable.

And that actually thinking about that experience, the brand that I'm thinking of, all of the marketing I get from them and I'm on their mailing list, it's always from the founder. So it always feels really personal. What are your.

Is that something you would recommend to have, sort of founder messaging versus brand messaging, or should it be a mix of both?

Naomi Davies: 00:22:02

Ideally a mix of the two because I appreciate that a lot of founders don't want to be too open or front and center all the time, but the occasional message from a founder can be very, very valuable. And we do encourage our clients to do a founder led piece of content on a fairly regular basis. So. Absolutely.

Examples of things that work nicely are say a monthly roundup of what happened that month for the business or looking ahead at what's coming up, but also maybe around if it's a fashion brand, for example, like a diary of what the founder wore over the weekend or what they wore that month to the different sort of occasions that they went out for that sort of thing. So lots of different ways in which you can do it. But yes, highly recommend a nice balance between founder and brand messaging for sure.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:54

I can definitely see how it's hard though, to put yourself out there as a founder because it's quite exposing.

But I do, I will say there are lots of brands that I follow online where I could tell you the name of the founder wonder I could tell you, you know, what they wear, what they'd like to eat for breakfast. It's actually really nice because I think it does give you a little bit more of a. You feel like you've got a little bit more of a connection.

Seeing, seeing the person. I think, I think nowadays, I think, I'm sure it's not just myself that feel like a lot of faceless brands aren't as compelling. I don't know.

You don't feel like the same connection.

Naomi Davies: 00:23:28

Yeah, yeah, totally. And people buy from people at the end of the day and knowing, yeah.

What that found is into if you've got the same values or maybe you're at the same stage of life, then you instantly feel that connection and you're more likely to shop with them versus a bigger brand that has no face to that brand. So yeah, and we see it as well, not just on email, but on ads as well.

So ads that include the founder tend to perform better than ads that say, have a model or a lookbook, imagery, for example. Example. Or pack shots.

So yes, it's daunting and maybe a little bit uncomfortable, but getting in front of the camera or even just as a voiceover of the founder can really help give that story across of your brand.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:12

That's really good advice. Thank you.

So when we're talking about again about pricing and how brands are positioned, do you see any mistakes brands make when they try to market themselves as premium? And on the flip side, how can it be done really? Well.

Naomi Davies: 00:24:29

Something that I see often is that brands get themselves in a bit of a muddle with how often they should communicate. Well, maybe not muddle even, but they get a bit scared about over communicating.

So brands that are in that sort of premium luxury space feel that they don't want to bombard their customers, especially on email, particularly I'm talking about now, but even sometimes on socials too, they might not want to post too often on social media. They don't want to be seen to be too desperate or too needy or Too communicating too much with that customer, they feel like less is more.

And yes, to an extent, yes, less can be more. But ultimately, if you're not regularly communicating with your customer, they are going to forget you.

Unless you are one of the major big fashion houses, your customer is not going to remember you. So you do need to communicate regularly.

So a lot of of founders that I speak to are nervous to communicate often with their customers because they feel like they're bothering them too much. So please do not do that. Find a cadence of messaging that you're comfortable with.

Ideally once a week for email and a few times a week obviously on then organic socials as well. Do not just think that your customers will come back to you and remember you, because I'm afraid they probably won't.

So that's something I see very, very often is that sort of being a bit too scared to communicate with customers because at the end of the day when you're buying something that is that luxury premium price point, it's not just one purchase, it's a lifelong relationship that you want to have with that customer. So you need to communicate with them. So don't be afraid to do that.

The other thing as well that I see with premium luxury brands is being too rigid with the brand book. So being too, too scared to do anything even slightly out of the question though.

I know I mentioned earlier about going, you know, a bit further afield. I'm not even talking that. I'm talking like, you know, one pixel to the left too much or you know, the padding not being like the exact, exact amount.

People who, and brands who get themselves tied up in knots in those areas will struggle on digital marketing because the pace is so high. And if you're worrying about really minute details, you're not going to be able to keep up.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:46

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

And I'd also think that for premium brands in terms of you saying about consistency because it's often a more expensive purchase, it's a more considered purchase. And I think when you're considering a purchase, sort of having regular communication or seeing that brand regularly keeps it top of mind.

You know, like when you're looking to buy something slightly more expensive, I think it's actually, I say helpful, possibly not for your bank balance, but for the brand. Certainly helpful if you keep just reminding that customer, oh, you were still thinking, you were thinking about this.

We're still selling this because you're right. Otherwise we get busy, we go elsewhere. Things. Yeah, things move on.

Naomi Davies: 00:27:23

Yeah, absolutely. 100%.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:26

And a final question about sort of positioning. Are there any simple tweaks that a brand can make to help, you know, appear more. Not appear but to, to make them feel more high end online?

Because as you said earlier, online is really, really tricky.

Naomi Davies: 00:27:41

Yeah, something that I like to do is particularly on email and this can also be done on a website is having plenty of white space or space in general. So imagine when you go into some shops and there's just clothes and product everywhere and you can't move.

There's just the fabric versus and other shops that you go in and it's a much more curated look around. You can feel and you instantly feel more relaxed because you can actually see the product more clearly.

That's a similar situation that you can have for your site as well.

So making sure there is enough breathing room around your product and that it's not just like sensory overload, that sort of consistency in imagery as we mentioned earlier, is also really, really helpful.

And then as I sort of also touched on making sure then you're telling that storytelling, that mission, you're your vision, your values, your craftsmanship that will make you instantly more high end online because the brands that don't have those stories are not telling them. So make sure you create some really beautiful landing pages and content around that.

It's hard online to create such beautiful pages but more and more brands are doing it. So keep your eyes open and do sort of.

I'm always looking at different product detail pages to sort of how brand convey their craftsmanship and their values and there are a lot of really lovely examples out there at the moment.

So do sort of investigate and be inspired and try and do that yourself as well because that will instantly make you feel more high end as opposed to just popping a product on Shopify and letting it be.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:15

Thank you so much. And I've got one final question for you before we finish. It's okay, Naomi.

And that's if someone listening to wants to start elevating their brand image, what's the one thing you tell them to do first?

Naomi Davies: 00:29:28

One thing I would do is buy a product from your shop online using a completely new email address and review that whole customer journey. Like what messaging do you get? What's the shipping like what's the delivery process like, what messaging and communications do you get?

How is it for you as a customer and does it match your expectations? And, and it's hard because you, because as someone in the business, your experience, you know you're experiencing your own brand every day.

But try and step out of those boots and put a new customer boots on and actually buying something from your own brand and seeing what the experience is can then help you understand how you can then make that better. So, yeah, that, that would be my top tip.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:15

Thank you. That makes so much sense because I think you're right. We're so stuck in what we're doing, doing.

It's very hard to think about how it would work from the customer end, whether it's a service, whether it's a product. I think it's really hard to kind of feel how it would be for someone on the other end of whatever it is we're offering.

Naomi Davies: 00:30:31

Yeah, totally.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:33

That's brilliant. I love that suggestion. Thank you. And thank you so, so much for everything you've shared.

I'm going to put all of the links to your website, your socials, everywhere else in the show, notes for the episodes. People can come and find you, connect with you, find out more about what you do. And thank you so, so much for your time.

Naomi Davies: 00:30:48

Thank you. It was lovely to chat to you, Vicki. It was, yeah, lovely to be here.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:51

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:54

Thank you so much for listening. Right to the end of this episode.

Do remember that you can get the Fullback catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickyweinberg.com Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it, and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.