The Art of Emotion: A Conversation with Davin McCoy

On the podcast Curious Goldfish, host Jason English interviews singer-songwriter Davin McCoy. They discuss the intense emotional depth in Davin's music and how it can make listeners feel uncomfortable, which Davin views as similar to the raw, emotive energy of punk rock. Davin also shares his perspective on songwriting, his growth as an artist over the years, and how he uses music as an outlet for his emotions. He talks about having a backlog of songs from the past 10 years which he intends to clean up lyrically for his upcoming album. Guest appearances and collaborations are planned for the recording process, although Davin insists the album remains a deeply personal project. The podcast concludes with the duo talking smack about ping pong. Davin also provides an exclusive performance of "Rings" next to a campfire from a house show in December 2023.

00:06 Introduction and Host's Journey to Atlanta

01:20 Discovering Local Talent: Davin McCoy

02:16 The Magic of Live Performances

02:41 Davin's Upcoming Album and Musical Journey

03:55 The Struggles and Triumphs of a Music Career

04:08 Behind the Scenes: Recording Process

05:01 Navigating the Music Industry: Past Experiences

06:56 Revisiting Old Songs and Future Plans

09:10 Personal Growth and Evolution as an Artist

09:15 Emotional Connection through Music

17:21 The Songwriting Process and Backlog

18:01 The Therapeutic Nature of Songwriting

18:34 The Process of Selecting Songs for the Album

19:22 Collaboration and Personal Connection in Music

20:07 The Goals and Themes of the Upcoming Album

21:22 The Emotional Impact of Music

22:21 The Duality of Emotion in Music

25:55 The Release of a Live Recording

29:22 Preparing for the New Album

31:55 Looking Forward to Muscle Shoals

38:12 Closing Remarks and Live Recording of "Rings"

And those people generally are probably not going to have a

2

great time if, if they're at my show,

sometimes they'll go, wow, I feel I've

3

had people come to me and go like,

I haven't felt emotions, you know,

4

or something like that in a while.

5

And I felt, you know, I've had

people tell me like it made me feel

6

uncomfortable, which I think is, I

think that's sort of, you know, punk

7

rock at its finest really is, is just

making people feel some shit that

8

they're not always comfortable feeling.

9

Jason English (Host): Welcome to

Curious Goldfish, a podcast community

10

where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

11

with the music makers of our world.

12

I'm your host, Jason English.

13

You can find Curious Goldfish and all the

major podcasts and social media platforms.

14

And of course we have all of our

content on our website, curiousgoldfish.

15

com.

16

I moved to the Atlanta area

two and a half years ago.

17

And seemingly each week I learned about

a new artist that lives here or learn

18

of an industry icon that grew up here.

19

I saw Elton John perform at the Mercedes

20

no idea he's made Atlanta home for

the past 25 years up until recently.

21

And we're just weeks since the

Super Bowl was played in Las Vegas.

22

Where Usher performed at halftime and

apparently he attended high school in

23

the town where I live in Roswell, North

of Atlanta, John Mayer, Zac Brown have

24

passed through just like countless

others from so many different genres.

25

Where am I going with this?

26

Well, fairly early on after moving

here, I came across a local artist

27

performing in a tavern down the street.

28

A little place, it's called 1920.

29

The artist was Davin McCoy, and

I was blown away by Davin's whole

30

persona he had going on that night.

31

Every cover he did sounded better

than the original, and every original

32

he did sounded like something

that should be on the radio.

33

I've been fortunate to spend time with

Davin ever since, and that reaction I had

34

the very first time seeing him is still

something I feel every time I watch him.

35

Whether it's in front of a handful

of people at a restaurant overlooking

36

the Beltline in downtown Atlanta,

or even at legendary Eddie's Attic.

37

If you've seen him, you

know what I'm talking about.

38

And if you haven't, well, I'm so excited

to introduce him to you as he's about

39

to record his first album in a decade.

40

And I'm hoping that his following will

exponentially grow because he has all the

41

talent to be right up there with those

other Atlanta artists I just mentioned.

42

This is the first of three

episodes we have planned with him.

43

This conversation occurred

44

as he was about to record.

45

We hope to catch him during the studio

recording, and then we hope to get a recap

46

of the album and deeper insights into

the tracks that make it near its release.

47

I'm hoping one of those tracks selected

for the album is Rings, a beautiful

48

song where Davin urges someone to

metaphorically cut him up and look

49

on the inside of him, just like you

would do to read the rings of a tree.

50

After my conversation with him, I'm

so happy to include a recording of

51

that song that he performed on a

cold December night in the backyard

52

of a friend's house here in Roswell.

53

Picture a cold, dark night, trees

all around, with a campfire glowing

54

and crackling as Davin sits on a

bright red stool with his guitar and

55

every lyric he sings is accompanied

by breath from the frigid air.

56

Pure magic.

57

And you can even hear

the fire alongside Davin.

58

It's a thin line between making

it big and not making it in music.

59

There's no reason Davin McCoy

can't be a household name after

60

he leaves Muscle Shoals, Alabama,

61

where he will be recording this spring.

62

And that's where we pick up

our conversation with him.

63

Let's dive in.

64

How did the Muscle

Shoals thing come about?

65

Davin McCoy: Through my partner

Robby, he brought Dan Hannan around

66

to to some shows, Robby was the

one trying to convince me to do

67

shows you that wanted me to

do a record kind of my way

68

um, so he convinced

69

So he convinced me he started

the ball rolling, I guess.

70

And he brought Dan Hannan

around, who's a producer that

71

used to live here in Georgia.

72

And he moved to, and so he

had come in and expressed some

73

interest in producing the record.

74

And I was certainly interested

in what he had to say.

75

And then he joined this group in

Muscle Shoals called the Ivy Manor.

76

Uh, music group, uh, I think

they're like the deadly, deadly

77

badass assassins or something.

78

It's something they call themselves.

79

But, um, so he moved out to

Muscle Shoals to join them.

80

Jason English (Host): That's big.

81

So it's been what 10 years since

your previous studio album what have

82

you been doing the past 10 years,

83

I've,

84

Davin McCoy: I've written, I wrote a lot.

85

I kept intending to make the new record.

86

I had some, um, there was some

legal stuff to get through with.

87

uh,

88

with my last record label, it

really kind of put a damper the way

89

things went, um, after that last

record, which was partly my fault.

90

That last record, we had, we had a lot

of money behind us and, uh, and it was,

91

they'd really kind of hyped it and,

um, and the way they were promoting it.

92

the Or the

93

way they wanted to do it and the

way they were spending money that

94

essentially I was going to owe back

regardless of how they spend it.

95

So I had no really say in it.

96

They would just sort of, you know,

they would, they would kind of

97

spin it their way and then go,

by the way, you know, this is the

98

current debt, you know, or whatever.

99

And I didn't see it ever paying off

the way they were pushing anything.

100

It seemed like we were on

two really different pages.

101

Kelly, who became my, she's my ex wife

now, but we got knocked up during that

102

during that first year of the record.

103

that also kind of put

me in a crazy headspace.

104

I didn't want to be gone all the time.

105

and really not making a lot of money

with what we were doing at that time.

106

And it just, the business

structure wasn't there.

107

Um, this is not, it really made sense.

108

So it put kind of left

me with a horrible taste.

109

And so when I did finally, it was

kind of a slow burn split from them.

110

So of course it was even, you

know, we could have just, we should

111

have just ripped the bandaid off.

112

But, um, so I took a bunch of time.

113

to figure

114

a lot of stuff out.

115

And then I went through and then

I was going to put another record

116

out and I went through a divorce,

which took forever and was horrible.

117

And then I was ready to work on

the new record and then Covid.

118

but the whole time I was, you

know, I was doing, I was working

119

in some way with, with music and

with the writing and all that.

120

Jason English (Host): Some of your fans

may be curious...do you have access

121

and rights to , songs that have been

previously recorded on other labels?

122

Can you ever resurrect those?

123

Or can you?

124

Other labels.

125

writers.

126

Davin McCoy: There's some that I did,

under some other umbrellas, that I

127

can't, that I have no access to, um, but

the songs that are still up on Spotify

128

and the records that are still up on

Spotify, uh, those I, I think I have, I

129

mean, there, I don't know, there could be

a, we might be open to some sort of, um,

130

Jason English (Host): like redo.

131

Davin McCoy: Yeah, and I plan on kind of

redoing the, especially the last record.

132

I plan on doing sort of, um,

a Taylor's version, you know,

133

re release of those records.

134

I know you're a Swifty.

135

Jason English (Host): that.

136

Davin's Davin's version.

137

Perfect.

138

Davin McCoy: Uh, but as far as I know, I,

uh, we, where we landed, I think I owned

139

the majority enough of the publishing

140

Jason English (Host): so just out of

curiosity, so are those songs like,

141

you know, whiskey, sexy and happy life

and numbers game, things like that.

142

Davin McCoy: Yeah, that, that

whole record, I'd like to do, um,

143

a more intimate version of it.

144

Um, I'd like to do it with

the same approach that we're

145

approaching this new record with.

146

Um, which is how we should have

done it in the first place.

147

And that's not me, Doc, because

Don McAllister produced that

148

record, and Don McAllister is,

149

is, he's

150

is a, uh, he's as good

as, as good as it gets.

151

And, and, um, but it did have a lot of

influence from the, From the label and,

152

uh, it's just really shiny, the record

is shiny and, and, and I don't think I

153

necessarily at the, I don't, you know,

154

Jason English (Host): uh,

155

Davin McCoy: the shiny factor I think

takes away from some of the, it should

156

be a little messier, I think, you

know, um, a little more intimate, like

157

kind of the, some of the, I think a

lot of the kind of the scars and warts

158

and things were sort of we, we, uh,

159

we

160

We would kind of clean that, you know,

I'd go back in and re dub a vocal if

161

I didn't like a note or something.

162

And just a lot of that stuff was,

we were all kind of caught up in it.

163

So I think that it, um,

it's a good record, I think.

164

I don't know that it's representative

of what you come see at a live show.

165

Jason English (Host): How do you think

you've changed as a songwriter or

166

musician since that last studio album?

167

Davin McCoy: think I'm I'm a better singer

a better guitar player I don't have as

168

much confidence when I'm writing as I

did but not I think Not in a bad way and

169

more of an objective quality I think I'm

a more conscientious singer than I was,

170

uh, I think a little bit more about what

I'm doing instead of just sort of, before

171

it was sort of closed, I was still kind

of closed my eyes and just let it go.

172

But I, um, I tried to learn a little

bit more about what I was doing.

173

I felt like I was always you know, the

movie, Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise.

174

It's Top Gun, but with race cars.

175

there's that scene where Robert Duvall is

talking to him in the bar after they've

176

been on the track all day, and he's

trying to get Tom Cruise to talk to him

177

about what he was feeling in the car.

178

And he's, and Tom Cruise is finally

like, he's like, I'm an idiot.

179

He's like, I don't know

anything about what's going on.

180

I just know how to drive the

car and I can't, I don't know

181

the lingo or the language.

182

I sort of kind of felt that way.

183

And I had been in the studio with

over the years with, just heroes of

184

mine and guys that are, you know, been

from Chuck Lovell to, uh, Ryan Newell

185

to just being around all these guys.

186

I just got tired of feeling like an idiot.

187

Uh, when, when they, you know, I

could write numbers for him, you

188

know, but, and that was sort of it.

189

Um, everything else was just sort of

coming from the gut and, and I think

190

it's important to, for it to come

from the gut, but it's nice if it

191

can pass through your head before or

after, you can put like some thought,

192

more thought into the physicality of

what you're doing and based on kind

193

of more of a knowledge of the music.

194

Jason English (Host): Is there

a chance that even though

195

even though you have less confidence that

you are probably a better songwriter now?

196

Just,

197

Davin McCoy: I think so.

198

Um, I think that I, I am, uh, I just,

I think when I say less confidence,

199

I, I think that I'm more open to

200

other genres of music and the

songwriting process behind songs

201

that maybe I don't like, but I.

202

Can listen and really understand

the the kind of the greatness

203

behind whatever it is whether it's

204

you

205

it could be you know, whether it's

a metal song or a Taylor Swift song

206

or a You know, Ed Sheeran song or

a, or a, uh, Cat Stevens, you know,

207

whatever it is, I, I think I, I

listen a little bit more objectively.

208

And so that is sort of the undertone that

when I say less confidence is, is that

209

it's just more of, I think, an objectivity

about what, what's, what's happening

210

or what I'm, what I'm trying to say.

211

The other part is that I still

am in love with the idea of,

212

heartbreak and, isolation and.

213

Then all the way to the other side of

connection and that type of love that

214

is You know where you still feel like

a teenager waiting, you know, just when

215

you've, you've been with somebody night

after night, after night, after night,

216

and you still see them and feel like

it's prom night, you know, and it's

217

the first time, you know, I still am.

218

a bit, and,

219

I really, and I, and as you get older,

I think as a songwriter, you start to

220

think of, you know, you can become jaded

to that, those ideas because you just

221

experienced heartbreak so many times, you

know, it's a fleeting thing, you know,

222

Jason English (Host): part of life.

223

Davin McCoy: yeah, it's just

something you're going to go

224

Jason English (Host): It's Thursday.

225

Davin McCoy: right?

226

When you're 20 and you get your heart

broken, it's like, holy fuck, your

227

world is completely fucking shattered

and you'll never recover, you know?

228

And um, and I, I still feel,

229

know, until you find that thing,

especially If, uh, if you get kind of

230

bored easy or whatever it is until you

find that thing again, you're going

231

to go through it over and over again.

232

And each time it's, you're more

aware of what's happening and

233

that it'll, this too shall pass.

234

But if you really, you know, if you lean

into it, you can still feel those same

235

things from that you have felt your whole

life as a human being and, but some of

236

that I'll sit down to write and I'll

feel like this is too heavy and this

237

is too emotional and it feels like a.

238

Uh, it feels like something a 20 year

old should write and not a man in

239

his thirties, you know, and so, um

240

Jason English (Host): Well, that

reminds me though, of like, you know,

241

again, back to like Ted lasso that

scene with Roy Kent, where, Rebecca's

242

like, they go on a double date and she's

like, what'd you think about the guy?

243

And Keely's like, no, he's, he checks

the boxes, he's financially fit.

244

He's, he's good looking, whatever.

245

And Roy Kent's like, you know,

are you bleeping kidding me?

246

You know, and ba he basically

tells Rebecca, you deserve.

247

To feel like you got struck by lightning,

that's what you're talking about.

248

Right?

249

Yeah.

250

Davin McCoy: about.

251

And I love, I love, I'm a

complete sucker for that stuff.

252

And, and, uh, and, and shows and

my emotional status I think has

253

always been, it's in a, in a,

254

sort of an, I mean,

255

I'll cry during an

insurance commercial, um,

256

Really?

257

but then if something heavy, like

important in my life happens, I'm,

258

I'm pretty stoic a lot of the time.

259

And it's, I think this

was killed a lot of it.

260

It's hard for a partner to be with me

because they'll, they'll go, I want,

261

you know, I go to a show and watch you

talk about a song and then, you know, I

262

can see your eyes watering while you're

just singing a song that you wrote.

263

15 years ago or something or, or, or

whether it's a month ago or 15 years ago

264

and, and then I've never seen you one time

cry at home over, you know what I mean?

265

It's like.

266

Jason English (Host):

Why do you think that is?

267

Davin McCoy: early childhood

developmental trauma.

268

Really?

269

Uh, it's just a safe space

that I found when I was young.

270

Emotions were were not real safe

for me when I was young and not

271

because I had a shitty parents.

272

They were doing absolutely

the best they can just on.

273

They were great.

274

Um, but you know, my both of my parents

had come from a lot of trauma in their

275

background and um And sort of my mom

sort of felt responsible for my emotions.

276

And what happens there is that in

turn you feel responsible for hers.

277

So you don't want to be sad because

she gets sad if you're sad, which is

278

too heavy for a kid to really carry.

279

And so you tend to be stoic through

everything because you just, you don't

280

want to, you don't want to make your mom

upset and just you being upset will make

281

your mom upset if in those situations if

you're, and then on the other side of it,

282

you know, my dad really didn't have much

patience for or validation for emotions.

283

So I just kind of had in, in the

both houses, um, I just had parents

284

that, you know, it just was, uh,

it wasn't real conducive for me.

285

So then when I, when I started.

286

singing music, playing music and

singing it and then writing it,

287

you know, that all of a sudden

you're on, some form of a stage.

288

and not only do people sort of expect

you to, to really feel emotions,

289

the more you feel, the more it

tends to resonate and then they

290

clap for you afterwards, you know?

291

So it's, it was this safe space where

I could feel and really, um, Really

292

kind of experience the things that

you're supposed to just probably be

293

doing in your everyday life, you know

294

Jason English (Host): The other night,

we were together and I saw you do a

295

cover a Damien Rice to just and I

don't know what the meaning behind

296

the song is but I can see it in

your face, well, most everyone can

297

Davin McCoy: think well and Damien Rice's

he almost everything he's written I I Go.

298

Oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking.

299

He just did it a lot better than me Yeah.

300

Damien is a great example of that.

301

And that song, it was delicate, right?

302

Is that what I did?

303

Um,

304

been out

305

that song has been around, has

been out for a very long time.

306

And I still, every time I decide

if I'll, I don't know what made

307

me play it the other night,

308

Jason English (Host): Well, I think

they asked you, you know, play your

309

favorite cover and it took you a minute,

but then that's what you landed on.

310

Davin McCoy: That's right.

311

Oh yeah.

312

It was, well, play your favorite cover

always turns into play what right this

313

second you would, you would make you the

That I think what you're feeling the most.

314

And that's in that arsenal that I

shuffle around for sure of songs

315

that I know always make me sort

of, uh, they make me happy to play.

316

And that song is that song is so good.

317

Um, every song on every

record of his is good

318

Jason English (Host): So in

terms of the songwriting, you

319

said you've been writing songs.

320

I mean, how, how big's the backlog

in the last 10 years of what you have

321

now to choose from for the new album?

322

Davin McCoy: It's not

as big as it should be.

323

There was some of the songs.

324

There was some,

325

There were a few periods of

time where I wrote the same song

326

about a hundred times, probably.

327

and, and it was in moments where I was

too, I went, there was a lot of shit

328

that happened in the last 10 years.

329

And so, you know, you

have a couple of kids

330

go through a divorce, um, go through

another really, really difficult breakup.

331

COVID, all this stuff, right?

332

And, right after you go through them, if

you can't, it's, there's some people that

333

can immediately sort of recognize and

write it the way it should be written.

334

Um, when you go through something

heavy, I tend to be too close

335

to the painting for a while.

336

And so a lot of the writing is

purely, it's just therapeutic.

337

There's nothing to really come from it.

338

It's just a way of, of.

339

leaning into the emotions

and feeling them.

340

But I'm too close to the painting

to really describe it, you know, and

341

it takes some time to get a better

perspective of what you're seeing or what

342

it is you're going through or feeling.

343

So there's a lot of

songs that were written.

344

Most of them are unusable.

345

and then in terms of what we've been

Kind of sorting through for this

346

the ones that I've been comfortable.

347

I have Presenting I have I think I

have done a pretty good job myself.

348

I'm narrowing them down to probably around

349

16 to 18 or something and then if I really

have to bring out I've got a whole A

350

whole book of songs that if we get to,

if I get to Muscle Shoals and we, and

351

we think that we're needing some other

material, I've got stuff I can start

352

showing them or, or at, at, at worst

case, sort of a lyric and an outline of

353

a, of a bunch of things that we can look

through and see if there's something

354

Jason English (Host): Do you anticipate

doing much writing while you are there?

355

Or will it be mostly if trying

to record what you've got?

356

There.

357

Davin McCoy: Some

358

of the team there, they

are looking to write.

359

a couple of songs

360

songs with me.

361

I know that they are, are

sort of leaning into that.

362

And I'm very, very open to

it, but I also told him that

363

I'm not, there's no guarantee.

364

I'm in no way am I guaranteeing

that they'll be on the record.

365

And, uh, it's, it's personal.

366

It's, you know, it's a, I writing

for other, stuff is different, you

367

know, but for The record, especially

when I haven't put one out in 10

368

years, it's, it feels really personal

and it feels very close to me.

369

And so if we write something

that I love, then I will 100

370

percent put it on the record.

371

And if we write something that I

love, but I just don't think it's

372

for the record, I'll just, you know,

we'll use it for something else.

373

We've written a lot of good

stuff out there this past year.

374

So

375

Jason English (Host): So what,

what are your goals for the album?

376

And you kind of described it like

you're too close to the painting.

377

Does the painting have a theme yet?

378

Davin McCoy: I think there's

a general feeling that is.

379

That I've already tried to, uh,

Robbie and I have, Robbie's helped

380

me sort of through this process with,

kind of outlining a feeling and a

381

theme, which is, it's pretty heavy.

382

I mean, it's pretty, there's a lot of,

um, it's a lot of emotional takes, I

383

think, and uh, for better or worse, but

384

was.

385

But,

386

overall

387

we

388

wanted to just be.

389

Extremely intimate and extremely,

passionate and, think that if I could

390

sum up sort of the goal, it would be You

know, there's music to dance to, you know,

391

and there's music to do all, you know,

all sorts of reasons to listen to music

392

and you know, the goal of this record is

393

You know for I think for people that

ever just sort of feel isolated or feel

394

Uncomfortable or feel Uh, afraid or

feel, um, sad or feel, manic or whatever

395

it is to, to listen to the record

and feel less alone about feeling any

396

of those things, you know, I think

that's probably the overall gist.

397

There will be people that

go like, bro, lighten up,

398

Jason English (Host): I bro.

399

don't think heard that before

400

Davin McCoy: never have I heard of that.

401

I will, people will approach

me and think that I'm like they

402

will assume that I'm gonna be.

403

Very delicate and emotional and,

and I think a lot of people are

404

always surprised to learn that

I'm, I'm really like laughing all

405

Jason English (Host): that

I'm, I'm really, lighthearted.

406

Davin McCoy: get the heavy shit

out in the song so that I don't

407

carry it around with me all day.

408

Cause if I didn't, I would.

409

I would, I would walk around with

it when I'm not writing or playing,

410

even if just not playing for a while.

411

It doesn't matter if it's a

pub or a festival or a show or

412

a theater, it doesn't matter.

413

I will start emotionally chew,

like I'm like a golden retriever.

414

I'll emotionally start chewing up

the carpet if I don't play enough.

415

And, uh, and it's probably not

the most functional way to exist,

416

but it is the way that I exist.

417

And it's probably too late to fix it.

418

Change it much now.

419

Jason English (Host): Well, I think like

if I did music reviews, I would probably

420

start out with a review of your music

with something like this, which was like,

421

you know, there's a guy, Leo Tolstoy

said, music is the shorthand of emotion.

422

Davin McCoy: I

423

Jason English (Host): I would say

music is a shorthand of emotion.

424

And Davin McCoy writes in calligraphy,

425

Davin McCoy: people.

426

Oh, man.

427

I said, can you write my new bio?

428

think we talked about

429

Jason English (Host):

That's a pretty good line,

430

Davin McCoy: a great

431

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

432

Cause like you, if anyone sees

you in, in person, it is a

433

lot, but being alive is a lot.

434

Having relationships is a lot.

435

Having kids is a lot.

436

Having friendships is a lot.

437

So it's like, that's kind of what.

438

music should be.

439

Davin McCoy: I, yeah, I agree with you.

440

I mean, that's definitely my

approach and that's, that's my

441

defense and too of what I do.

442

I mean, that's the best, more eloquently

put than I've probably ever put it.

443

Uh.

444

that's just

445

You know, and I have, I've had people

go like, man, play something happy, you

446

know, my very eloquent way of responding

to that is normally just go fuck

447

Jason English (Host): very eloquent

way of Well you've got Happy Life,

448

you've got Not at All to that.

449

Davin McCoy: life.

450

Yeah.

451

Yeah.

452

With you.

453

Yeah.

454

Yeah.

455

Yeah.

456

Um, yeah.

457

Which both have some sadness

behind them really, but, uh,

458

Jason English (Host):

We don't have to talk

459

Davin McCoy: no, I won't.

460

Yeah.

461

Yeah.

462

That's mine to keep.

463

there are people that are just,

464

you brought up the Ted Lasso thing.

465

Ted Lasso is a great example of,

that man is, you know, he's a

466

walking antidepressant from the

people around him, but he is.

467

You know, I thought it was so brilliant

the second season when they, when they

468

came back in with sort of the reality

that is so that you're going to have with

469

that, with that personality type, which

is he's going to be dealing with something

470

inside that he's compartmentalizing that

is going to eventually come out sideways.

471

And he, and I thought, I think they

did such a great job with the mental

472

health aspect of that side of it.

473

yeah, that's the thing is that there's,

there's a duality and you have to,

474

you've got to lean into both of them.

475

And some people lean into music for

that and other people's, uh, and other

476

people lean into it, uh, to really happy

music for the, for the other side of it.

477

And those people generally are probably

not going to have a great time if, if

478

they're at my show, sometimes they'll go,

wow, I feel I've had people come to me

479

and go like, I haven't felt emotions, you

know, or something like that in a while.

480

And I felt, you know, I've had

people tell me like it made me feel

481

uncomfortable, which I think is, I

think that's sort of, you know, punk

482

rock at its finest really is, is just

making people feel some shit that

483

they're not always comfortable feeling.

484

And then other people, it's just cathartic

to lean into it and, and they tend

485

to be drawn to, and I'm the same way.

486

I mean, shit give me, I'll go to

a, you know, I go to a Damien Rice,

487

you know, show over a mama's in

the Papa's show every day, all day.

488

Jason English (Host): And

there's a market for it.

489

I mean, some, some people

490

are like, well, you know,

491

music

492

music should be dancing and

happy and things like that.

493

But like you mentioned

Damien Rice, I think.

494

Yeah.

495

Gregory Allen Isakov off also

you're not gonna want to go, to the

496

carnival after listening Isakov.

497

Right.

498

But like, there's, there's a beauty to it.

499

Yeah.

500

There's, there's a, there's

501

Davin McCoy: there's, there's

a whole inner world that

502

allows you to experience a

503

some people are comfortable

in that space some people are

504

too comfortable in that space

505

to it.

506

It's just a whole

507

Jason English (Host): space.

508

Yeah.

509

Yeah.

510

Davin McCoy: the duality of the

universe that exists in every

511

single one of us, I think.

512

Jason English (Host): So we talked

about it's been 10 years since the

513

studio album, but, but you did release

something over the summer, which is

514

a live recording at a performance

at Eddie's attic here in Atlanta.

515

I guess.

516

What was the purpose of that?

517

Davin McCoy: of that?

518

I think Robbie wanted me to do it.

519

I think that

520

Jason English (Host): Robbie's

got ultimate ultimate authority.

521

Davin McCoy: I think he wanted me

to do it and I was happy to do it.

522

Uh, or I was sort of Yeah, I

thought, sure, why shouldn't we?

523

That's another thing that's changed as

well, is I don't feel as, um, I'm not

524

as afraid of, of, uh, of it not being,

of things not being perfect or anything.

525

You know, sort of, like when they

mixed down that record, I was

526

in there for about ten minutes.

527

I

528

I cannot sit here and listen to this.

529

I am out of here.

530

I trust you guys.

531

Tell me when it's done and send it to me.

532

just mix it how you think and just don't.

533

Don't chop anything out, don't tune

anything, but, but you guys can mix

534

it down and just release it because

I'll never be, you'll never hear me,

535

especially in a live recording, I'll

never, if it, if it requires me to

536

sit there and go, yes, that's great.

537

Put it out.

538

I'll never will.

539

and

540

it was

541

Jason English (Host): yes,

that's great, I'll never will.

542

I think I, when I did end up listening

543

Davin McCoy: when I did end up listening

to it a couple of times, I, I really

544

did think it was, it was, it was good.

545

I thought it was, I thought it

was a pretty good representative.

546

Yeah.

547

Um, representation.

548

And I'd like to do that.

549

That was, we, we did that because our

plan is, I think, to try to do release,

550

you know, one show at least once a year.

551

Um, and, um,

552

Jason English (Host): year.

553

You're

554

Davin McCoy: know, even if it's

555

in a different

556

a lot of song overlap and

stuff, um, I'm cool with it.

557

I think it's cool to have just,

558

Jason English (Host): So it

559

Davin McCoy: just always in a

different space when it's shit

560

that means something to you.

561

And so it comes out

different in a lot of ways.

562

Jason English (Host): Do you think

the new album will be more like that

563

than it was than your earlier stuff?

564

Davin McCoy: Yes, it'll be, this will be,

um, yeah, it'll be much closer to the goal

565

with this record is to be able to, if I'm

It's not going to be an acoustic record.

566

It's going to be, there'll be, uh,

plenty of instruments on it, but it'll

567

never feel like a, it's me with a band,

uh, because I don't plan on really

568

touring with a band again for some time.

569

And, um, so I want the record,

I want the record to be big

570

and atmospheric and all that.

571

But when you hear me play the

same songs live with just me and a

572

guitar or me and one other guy or

whatever, I don't want it to sound

573

like different versions of the songs.

574

I want it to sound like the same

song, just, just, um, A great example

575

is, uh, you kind of hear that with

a lot of like Ray stuff and Damien

576

Rye stuff and it's all, you know,

it's produced, but when he does it,

577

does most of them acoustic when either

one of them do or a lot of guys, uh,

578

it doesn't sound even bad to like Cat

Stevens, you know, whatever it was,

579

whatever the quality was about the

recordings when he played acoustic stuff

580

for him and just one other guy, it didn't

sound like this is the acoustic version,

581

you know, it just sounded like the song.

582

Jason English (Host): So I hope to

talk to you in muscle Shoals, while

583

you're recording, but I guess, can you

walk us through, what do you call it?

584

Pre production process?

585

what are some of those steps that

you've been doing the last couple of

586

months to prepare for muscle Shoals?

587

Just,

588

Davin McCoy: panicking.

589

That's probably the

thing I've done the most.

590

I've just been trying to sit with, um,

Some of these songs have, I have about,

591

I've probably done them 10 different ways.

592

Over the past bunch of years

So I've been trying to sit with

593

those and figure out what I like

the way I want to do them best.

594

I've been

595

um,

596

Sending tracks out to to those guys

out there to listen to and kind of get

597

a feel for so they can come up with

their what the production ideas and And

598

mostly just a lot of lyric cleaning up.

599

I've been going through and trying

to, you know, there's some of these

600

songs have 25 verses and that I've just

over the years that I've rewritten.

601

And um, so going back through all that,

which has been kind of neat, actually,

602

it's kind of sort of like reading your

journal in a lot of ways, obviously.

603

So I've been doing a lot of kind of lyric

cleanup and trying to find versions of

604

songs that I remembered that I liked that

that were recorded some way or another

605

and That's sort of what I think what

you sort of do you go through it and

606

and kind of

607

Kind of just take an inventory

pre production is sort of an

608

inventory and then once I get out

there and we do official We'll

609

do the studio pre production,

which is where we'll really sit.

610

Before we track, we'll sit, we'll

kind of draw out a map, like a brain

611

map concept of what the record is.

612

Dan is really, Dan Hannon is so, um,

613

he

614

He really brings a profundity and

like a weight to, uh, He, he said,

615

He said, you know, at some point I

realized that I don't, my, I, I'm

616

not a lot of producers approach.

617

It's sort of like they're making sort

of their record that you know, they're,

618

they're going to, they're, they have

decided what this record should be.

619

And great producers

have done that plenty of

620

Jason English (Host): many times,

621

Davin McCoy: but Dan is very,

I want to make your record.

622

I want to be the one to make your

record, which is pretty cool.

623

So we do, he does sort of a lot of, you

sit down and you really, I think it's

624

that kind of Rick Rubin school of thought,

you know, you got to kind of manipulate

625

in, get

626

and, um,

627

place you, you think

628

Get in getting, you know, get

the artist to the place you,

629

you think they need to be in.

630

And, and, um, and a lot of ping pong,

a lot of ping pong talks, you know, so

631

Jason English (Host): fun.

632

Davin McCoy: it'll be great.

633

I'm excited.

634

Right.

635

Jason English (Host): Alright.

636

Well, thanks for your time today.

637

Uh, I look forward to

seeing you in Muscle Shoals.

638

Davin McCoy: Yeah, man.

639

We're gonna have a good time.

640

Jason English (Host): kick your ass in

641

Davin McCoy: You need to

brush up on your ping pong

642

Jason English (Host): don't worry about

643

Davin McCoy: we will.

644

It's, it's intense.

645

Are you good?

646

Jason English (Host): I'm

647

Davin McCoy: Of course you

648

Jason English (Host): I'm

good, I'm good at Cornhole.

649

Davin McCoy: too.

650

Uh, yeah, you have that walk too,

you know, you walk like an athlete.

651

Um,

652

Jason English (Host): oh, oh boy.

653

Davin McCoy: uh, yeah, no, uh, I don't

know, hopefully if you get out there

654

and smoke me, I'm gonna be so bummed.

655

Jason English (Host): I'm going

to bring my cornhole boards too.

656

Davin McCoy: they probably

have them out there.

657

They've also got like those

splatter ball guns, the intense

658

Jason English (Host):

you told me about that.

659

Davin McCoy: Uh, we get out there and And

make some noise and, um, shoot each other.

660

We actually created a new ping pong.

661

That's what, that's what

662

Jason English (Host): play.

663

Oh, that's right.

664

The splatter ping pong.

665

Davin McCoy: hit with

paintballs while you're playing.

666

Um, be great.

667

Uh, Gary Nichols, you know, Dan

Hannan, Eli, um, Clint, uh, the

668

whole team out there is really great.

669

Um, It's going to be a lot of fun.

670

Don't put that part in there.

671

Cause I left out two names and

I can't think of them right

672

now.

673

Jason English (Host):

I'll I'll fix that in post

674

Davin McCoy: Yeah.

675

Fix it in post.

676

Yeah.

677

Cool, man.

678

Jason English (Host): man.

679

You appreciate

680

Davin McCoy: Thanks Jay.

681

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

682

episode of Curious Goldfish.

683

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

684

Also, tell your music

loving friends about us too.

685

Until next time, stay curious.