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In the Studio with Davin McCoy: Part 1
Episode 115th March 2024 • Curious Goldfish • Jason English
00:00:00 00:38:49

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The Art of Emotion: A Conversation with Davin McCoy

On the podcast Curious Goldfish, host Jason English interviews singer-songwriter Davin McCoy. They discuss the intense emotional depth in Davin's music and how it can make listeners feel uncomfortable, which Davin views as similar to the raw, emotive energy of punk rock. Davin also shares his perspective on songwriting, his growth as an artist over the years, and how he uses music as an outlet for his emotions. He talks about having a backlog of songs from the past 10 years which he intends to clean up lyrically for his upcoming album. Guest appearances and collaborations are planned for the recording process, although Davin insists the album remains a deeply personal project. The podcast concludes with the duo talking smack about ping pong. Davin also provides an exclusive performance of "Rings" next to a campfire from a house show in December 2023.

00:06 Introduction and Host's Journey to Atlanta

01:20 Discovering Local Talent: Davin McCoy

02:16 The Magic of Live Performances

02:41 Davin's Upcoming Album and Musical Journey

03:55 The Struggles and Triumphs of a Music Career

04:08 Behind the Scenes: Recording Process

05:01 Navigating the Music Industry: Past Experiences

06:56 Revisiting Old Songs and Future Plans

09:10 Personal Growth and Evolution as an Artist

09:15 Emotional Connection through Music

17:21 The Songwriting Process and Backlog

18:01 The Therapeutic Nature of Songwriting

18:34 The Process of Selecting Songs for the Album

19:22 Collaboration and Personal Connection in Music

20:07 The Goals and Themes of the Upcoming Album

21:22 The Emotional Impact of Music

22:21 The Duality of Emotion in Music

25:55 The Release of a Live Recording

29:22 Preparing for the New Album

31:55 Looking Forward to Muscle Shoals

38:12 Closing Remarks and Live Recording of "Rings"

Transcripts

Davin McCoy:

And those people generally are probably not going to have a

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great time if, if they're at my show,

sometimes they'll go, wow, I feel I've

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had people come to me and go like,

I haven't felt emotions, you know,

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or something like that in a while.

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And I felt, you know, I've had

people tell me like it made me feel

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uncomfortable, which I think is, I

think that's sort of, you know, punk

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rock at its finest really is, is just

making people feel some shit that

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they're not always comfortable feeling.

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

Curious Goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find Curious Goldfish and all the

major podcasts and social media platforms.

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And of course we have all of our

content on our website, curiousgoldfish.

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com.

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I moved to the Atlanta area

two and a half years ago.

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And seemingly each week I learned about

a new artist that lives here or learn

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of an industry icon that grew up here.

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I saw Elton John perform at the Mercedes

Benz Stadium in late:

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no idea he's made Atlanta home for

the past 25 years up until recently.

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And we're just weeks since the

Super Bowl was played in Las Vegas.

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Where Usher performed at halftime and

apparently he attended high school in

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the town where I live in Roswell, North

of Atlanta, John Mayer, Zac Brown have

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passed through just like countless

others from so many different genres.

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Where am I going with this?

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Well, fairly early on after moving

here, I came across a local artist

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performing in a tavern down the street.

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A little place, it's called 1920.

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The artist was Davin McCoy, and

I was blown away by Davin's whole

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persona he had going on that night.

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Every cover he did sounded better

than the original, and every original

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he did sounded like something

that should be on the radio.

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I've been fortunate to spend time with

Davin ever since, and that reaction I had

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the very first time seeing him is still

something I feel every time I watch him.

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Whether it's in front of a handful

of people at a restaurant overlooking

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the Beltline in downtown Atlanta,

or even at legendary Eddie's Attic.

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If you've seen him, you

know what I'm talking about.

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And if you haven't, well, I'm so excited

to introduce him to you as he's about

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to record his first album in a decade.

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And I'm hoping that his following will

exponentially grow because he has all the

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talent to be right up there with those

other Atlanta artists I just mentioned.

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This is the first of three

episodes we have planned with him.

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This conversation occurred

in late January,:

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as he was about to record.

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We hope to catch him during the studio

recording, and then we hope to get a recap

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of the album and deeper insights into

the tracks that make it near its release.

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I'm hoping one of those tracks selected

for the album is Rings, a beautiful

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song where Davin urges someone to

metaphorically cut him up and look

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on the inside of him, just like you

would do to read the rings of a tree.

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After my conversation with him, I'm

so happy to include a recording of

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that song that he performed on a

cold December night in the backyard

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of a friend's house here in Roswell.

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Picture a cold, dark night, trees

all around, with a campfire glowing

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and crackling as Davin sits on a

bright red stool with his guitar and

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every lyric he sings is accompanied

by breath from the frigid air.

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Pure magic.

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And you can even hear

the fire alongside Davin.

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It's a thin line between making

it big and not making it in music.

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There's no reason Davin McCoy

can't be a household name after

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he leaves Muscle Shoals, Alabama,

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where he will be recording this spring.

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And that's where we pick up

our conversation with him.

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Let's dive in.

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How did the Muscle

Shoals thing come about?

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Davin McCoy: Through my partner

Robby, he brought Dan Hannan around

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to to some shows, Robby was the

one trying to convince me to do

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shows you that wanted me to

do a record kind of my way

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um, so he convinced

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So he convinced me he started

the ball rolling, I guess.

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And he brought Dan Hannan

around, who's a producer that

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used to live here in Georgia.

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And he moved to, and so he

had come in and expressed some

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interest in producing the record.

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And I was certainly interested

in what he had to say.

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And then he joined this group in

Muscle Shoals called the Ivy Manor.

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Uh, music group, uh, I think

they're like the deadly, deadly

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badass assassins or something.

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It's something they call themselves.

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But, um, so he moved out to

Muscle Shoals to join them.

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Jason English (Host): That's big.

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So it's been what 10 years since

your previous studio album what have

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you been doing the past 10 years,

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I've,

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Davin McCoy: I've written, I wrote a lot.

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I kept intending to make the new record.

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I had some, um, there was some

legal stuff to get through with.

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uh,

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with my last record label, it

really kind of put a damper the way

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things went, um, after that last

record, which was partly my fault.

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That last record, we had, we had a lot

of money behind us and, uh, and it was,

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they'd really kind of hyped it and,

um, and the way they were promoting it.

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the Or the

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way they wanted to do it and the

way they were spending money that

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essentially I was going to owe back

regardless of how they spend it.

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So I had no really say in it.

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They would just sort of, you know,

they would, they would kind of

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spin it their way and then go,

by the way, you know, this is the

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current debt, you know, or whatever.

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And I didn't see it ever paying off

the way they were pushing anything.

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It seemed like we were on

two really different pages.

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Kelly, who became my, she's my ex wife

now, but we got knocked up during that

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during that first year of the record.

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that also kind of put

me in a crazy headspace.

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I didn't want to be gone all the time.

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and really not making a lot of money

with what we were doing at that time.

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And it just, the business

structure wasn't there.

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Um, this is not, it really made sense.

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So it put kind of left

me with a horrible taste.

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And so when I did finally, it was

kind of a slow burn split from them.

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So of course it was even, you

know, we could have just, we should

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have just ripped the bandaid off.

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But, um, so I took a bunch of time.

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to figure

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a lot of stuff out.

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And then I went through and then

I was going to put another record

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out and I went through a divorce,

which took forever and was horrible.

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And then I was ready to work on

the new record and then Covid.

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but the whole time I was, you

know, I was doing, I was working

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in some way with, with music and

with the writing and all that.

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Jason English (Host): Some of your fans

may be curious...do you have access

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and rights to , songs that have been

previously recorded on other labels?

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Can you ever resurrect those?

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Or can you?

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Other labels.

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writers.

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Davin McCoy: There's some that I did,

under some other umbrellas, that I

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can't, that I have no access to, um, but

the songs that are still up on Spotify

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and the records that are still up on

Spotify, uh, those I, I think I have, I

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mean, there, I don't know, there could be

a, we might be open to some sort of, um,

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Jason English (Host): like redo.

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Davin McCoy: Yeah, and I plan on kind of

redoing the, especially the last record.

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I plan on doing sort of, um,

a Taylor's version, you know,

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re release of those records.

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I know you're a Swifty.

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Jason English (Host): that.

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Davin's Davin's version.

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Perfect.

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Davin McCoy: Uh, but as far as I know, I,

uh, we, where we landed, I think I owned

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the majority enough of the publishing

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Jason English (Host): so just out of

curiosity, so are those songs like,

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you know, whiskey, sexy and happy life

and numbers game, things like that.

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Davin McCoy: Yeah, that, that

whole record, I'd like to do, um,

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a more intimate version of it.

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Um, I'd like to do it with

the same approach that we're

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approaching this new record with.

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Um, which is how we should have

done it in the first place.

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And that's not me, Doc, because

Don McAllister produced that

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record, and Don McAllister is,

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is, he's

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is a, uh, he's as good

as, as good as it gets.

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And, and, um, but it did have a lot of

influence from the, From the label and,

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uh, it's just really shiny, the record

is shiny and, and, and I don't think I

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necessarily at the, I don't, you know,

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Jason English (Host): uh,

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Davin McCoy: the shiny factor I think

takes away from some of the, it should

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be a little messier, I think, you

know, um, a little more intimate, like

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kind of the, some of the, I think a

lot of the kind of the scars and warts

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and things were sort of we, we, uh,

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we

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We would kind of clean that, you know,

I'd go back in and re dub a vocal if

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I didn't like a note or something.

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And just a lot of that stuff was,

we were all kind of caught up in it.

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So I think that it, um,

it's a good record, I think.

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I don't know that it's representative

of what you come see at a live show.

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Jason English (Host): How do you think

you've changed as a songwriter or

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musician since that last studio album?

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Davin McCoy: think I'm I'm a better singer

a better guitar player I don't have as

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much confidence when I'm writing as I

did but not I think Not in a bad way and

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more of an objective quality I think I'm

a more conscientious singer than I was,

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uh, I think a little bit more about what

I'm doing instead of just sort of, before

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it was sort of closed, I was still kind

of closed my eyes and just let it go.

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But I, um, I tried to learn a little

bit more about what I was doing.

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I felt like I was always you know, the

movie, Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise.

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It's Top Gun, but with race cars.

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there's that scene where Robert Duvall is

talking to him in the bar after they've

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been on the track all day, and he's

trying to get Tom Cruise to talk to him

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about what he was feeling in the car.

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And he's, and Tom Cruise is finally

like, he's like, I'm an idiot.

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He's like, I don't know

anything about what's going on.

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I just know how to drive the

car and I can't, I don't know

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the lingo or the language.

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I sort of kind of felt that way.

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And I had been in the studio with

over the years with, just heroes of

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mine and guys that are, you know, been

from Chuck Lovell to, uh, Ryan Newell

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to just being around all these guys.

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I just got tired of feeling like an idiot.

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Uh, when, when they, you know, I

could write numbers for him, you

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know, but, and that was sort of it.

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Um, everything else was just sort of

coming from the gut and, and I think

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it's important to, for it to come

from the gut, but it's nice if it

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can pass through your head before or

after, you can put like some thought,

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more thought into the physicality of

what you're doing and based on kind

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of more of a knowledge of the music.

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Jason English (Host): Is there

a chance that even though

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even though you have less confidence that

you are probably a better songwriter now?

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Just,

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Davin McCoy: I think so.

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Um, I think that I, I am, uh, I just,

I think when I say less confidence,

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I, I think that I'm more open to

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other genres of music and the

songwriting process behind songs

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that maybe I don't like, but I.

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Can listen and really understand

the the kind of the greatness

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behind whatever it is whether it's

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you

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it could be you know, whether it's

a metal song or a Taylor Swift song

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or a You know, Ed Sheeran song or

a, or a, uh, Cat Stevens, you know,

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whatever it is, I, I think I, I

listen a little bit more objectively.

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And so that is sort of the undertone that

when I say less confidence is, is that

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it's just more of, I think, an objectivity

about what, what's, what's happening

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or what I'm, what I'm trying to say.

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The other part is that I still

am in love with the idea of,

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heartbreak and, isolation and.

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Then all the way to the other side of

connection and that type of love that

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is You know where you still feel like

a teenager waiting, you know, just when

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you've, you've been with somebody night

after night, after night, after night,

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and you still see them and feel like

it's prom night, you know, and it's

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the first time, you know, I still am.

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a bit, and,

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I really, and I, and as you get older,

I think as a songwriter, you start to

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think of, you know, you can become jaded

to that, those ideas because you just

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experienced heartbreak so many times, you

know, it's a fleeting thing, you know,

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Jason English (Host): part of life.

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Davin McCoy: yeah, it's just

something you're going to go

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Jason English (Host): It's Thursday.

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Davin McCoy: right?

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When you're 20 and you get your heart

broken, it's like, holy fuck, your

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world is completely fucking shattered

and you'll never recover, you know?

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And um, and I, I still feel,

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know, until you find that thing,

especially If, uh, if you get kind of

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bored easy or whatever it is until you

find that thing again, you're going

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to go through it over and over again.

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And each time it's, you're more

aware of what's happening and

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that it'll, this too shall pass.

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But if you really, you know, if you lean

into it, you can still feel those same

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things from that you have felt your whole

life as a human being and, but some of

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that I'll sit down to write and I'll

feel like this is too heavy and this

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is too emotional and it feels like a.

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Uh, it feels like something a 20 year

old should write and not a man in

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his thirties, you know, and so, um

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Jason English (Host): Well, that

reminds me though, of like, you know,

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again, back to like Ted lasso that

scene with Roy Kent, where, Rebecca's

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like, they go on a double date and she's

like, what'd you think about the guy?

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And Keely's like, no, he's, he checks

the boxes, he's financially fit.

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He's, he's good looking, whatever.

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And Roy Kent's like, you know,

are you bleeping kidding me?

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You know, and ba he basically

tells Rebecca, you deserve.

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To feel like you got struck by lightning,

that's what you're talking about.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Davin McCoy: about.

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And I love, I love, I'm a

complete sucker for that stuff.

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And, and, uh, and, and shows and

my emotional status I think has

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always been, it's in a, in a,

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sort of an, I mean,

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I'll cry during an

insurance commercial, um,

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Really?

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but then if something heavy, like

important in my life happens, I'm,

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I'm pretty stoic a lot of the time.

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And it's, I think this

was killed a lot of it.

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It's hard for a partner to be with me

because they'll, they'll go, I want,

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you know, I go to a show and watch you

talk about a song and then, you know, I

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can see your eyes watering while you're

just singing a song that you wrote.

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15 years ago or something or, or, or

whether it's a month ago or 15 years ago

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and, and then I've never seen you one time

cry at home over, you know what I mean?

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It's like.

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Jason English (Host):

Why do you think that is?

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Davin McCoy: early childhood

developmental trauma.

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Really?

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Uh, it's just a safe space

that I found when I was young.

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Emotions were were not real safe

for me when I was young and not

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because I had a shitty parents.

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They were doing absolutely

the best they can just on.

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They were great.

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Um, but you know, my both of my parents

had come from a lot of trauma in their

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background and um And sort of my mom

sort of felt responsible for my emotions.

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And what happens there is that in

turn you feel responsible for hers.

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So you don't want to be sad because

she gets sad if you're sad, which is

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too heavy for a kid to really carry.

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And so you tend to be stoic through

everything because you just, you don't

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want to, you don't want to make your mom

upset and just you being upset will make

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your mom upset if in those situations if

you're, and then on the other side of it,

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you know, my dad really didn't have much

patience for or validation for emotions.

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So I just kind of had in, in the

both houses, um, I just had parents

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that, you know, it just was, uh,

it wasn't real conducive for me.

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So then when I, when I started.

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singing music, playing music and

singing it and then writing it,

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you know, that all of a sudden

you're on, some form of a stage.

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and not only do people sort of expect

you to, to really feel emotions,

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the more you feel, the more it

tends to resonate and then they

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clap for you afterwards, you know?

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So it's, it was this safe space where

I could feel and really, um, Really

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kind of experience the things that

you're supposed to just probably be

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doing in your everyday life, you know

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Jason English (Host): The other night,

we were together and I saw you do a

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cover a Damien Rice to just and I

don't know what the meaning behind

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the song is but I can see it in

your face, well, most everyone can

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Davin McCoy: think well and Damien Rice's

he almost everything he's written I I Go.

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Oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking.

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He just did it a lot better than me Yeah.

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Damien is a great example of that.

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And that song, it was delicate, right?

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Is that what I did?

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Um,

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been out

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that song has been around, has

been out for a very long time.

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And I still, every time I decide

if I'll, I don't know what made

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me play it the other night,

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Jason English (Host): Well, I think

they asked you, you know, play your

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favorite cover and it took you a minute,

but then that's what you landed on.

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Davin McCoy: That's right.

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Oh yeah.

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It was, well, play your favorite cover

always turns into play what right this

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second you would, you would make you the

That I think what you're feeling the most.

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And that's in that arsenal that I

shuffle around for sure of songs

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that I know always make me sort

of, uh, they make me happy to play.

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And that song is that song is so good.

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Um, every song on every

record of his is good

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Jason English (Host): So in

terms of the songwriting, you

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said you've been writing songs.

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I mean, how, how big's the backlog

in the last 10 years of what you have

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now to choose from for the new album?

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Davin McCoy: It's not

as big as it should be.

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There was some of the songs.

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There was some,

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There were a few periods of

time where I wrote the same song

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about a hundred times, probably.

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and, and it was in moments where I was

too, I went, there was a lot of shit

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that happened in the last 10 years.

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And so, you know, you

have a couple of kids

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go through a divorce, um, go through

another really, really difficult breakup.

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COVID, all this stuff, right?

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And, right after you go through them, if

you can't, it's, there's some people that

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can immediately sort of recognize and

write it the way it should be written.

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Um, when you go through something

heavy, I tend to be too close

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to the painting for a while.

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And so a lot of the writing is

purely, it's just therapeutic.

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:

There's nothing to really come from it.

338

:

It's just a way of, of.

339

:

leaning into the emotions

and feeling them.

340

:

But I'm too close to the painting

to really describe it, you know, and

341

:

it takes some time to get a better

perspective of what you're seeing or what

342

:

it is you're going through or feeling.

343

:

So there's a lot of

songs that were written.

344

:

Most of them are unusable.

345

:

and then in terms of what we've been

Kind of sorting through for this

346

:

the ones that I've been comfortable.

347

:

I have Presenting I have I think I

have done a pretty good job myself.

348

:

I'm narrowing them down to probably around

349

:

16 to 18 or something and then if I really

have to bring out I've got a whole A

350

:

whole book of songs that if we get to,

if I get to Muscle Shoals and we, and

351

:

we think that we're needing some other

material, I've got stuff I can start

352

:

showing them or, or at, at, at worst

case, sort of a lyric and an outline of

353

:

a, of a bunch of things that we can look

through and see if there's something

354

:

Jason English (Host): Do you anticipate

doing much writing while you are there?

355

:

Or will it be mostly if trying

to record what you've got?

356

:

There.

357

:

Davin McCoy: Some

358

:

of the team there, they

are looking to write.

359

:

a couple of songs

360

:

songs with me.

361

:

I know that they are, are

sort of leaning into that.

362

:

And I'm very, very open to

it, but I also told him that

363

:

I'm not, there's no guarantee.

364

:

I'm in no way am I guaranteeing

that they'll be on the record.

365

:

And, uh, it's, it's personal.

366

:

It's, you know, it's a, I writing

for other, stuff is different, you

367

:

know, but for The record, especially

when I haven't put one out in 10

368

:

years, it's, it feels really personal

and it feels very close to me.

369

:

And so if we write something

that I love, then I will 100

370

:

percent put it on the record.

371

:

And if we write something that I

love, but I just don't think it's

372

:

for the record, I'll just, you know,

we'll use it for something else.

373

:

We've written a lot of good

stuff out there this past year.

374

:

So

375

:

Jason English (Host): So what,

what are your goals for the album?

376

:

And you kind of described it like

you're too close to the painting.

377

:

Does the painting have a theme yet?

378

:

Davin McCoy: I think there's

a general feeling that is.

379

:

That I've already tried to, uh,

Robbie and I have, Robbie's helped

380

:

me sort of through this process with,

kind of outlining a feeling and a

381

:

theme, which is, it's pretty heavy.

382

:

I mean, it's pretty, there's a lot of,

um, it's a lot of emotional takes, I

383

:

think, and uh, for better or worse, but

384

:

was.

385

:

But,

386

:

overall

387

:

we

388

:

wanted to just be.

389

:

Extremely intimate and extremely,

passionate and, think that if I could

390

:

sum up sort of the goal, it would be You

know, there's music to dance to, you know,

391

:

and there's music to do all, you know,

all sorts of reasons to listen to music

392

:

and you know, the goal of this record is

393

:

You know for I think for people that

ever just sort of feel isolated or feel

394

:

Uncomfortable or feel Uh, afraid or

feel, um, sad or feel, manic or whatever

395

:

it is to, to listen to the record

and feel less alone about feeling any

396

:

of those things, you know, I think

that's probably the overall gist.

397

:

There will be people that

go like, bro, lighten up,

398

:

Jason English (Host): I bro.

399

:

don't think heard that before

400

:

Davin McCoy: never have I heard of that.

401

:

I will, people will approach

me and think that I'm like they

402

:

will assume that I'm gonna be.

403

:

Very delicate and emotional and,

and I think a lot of people are

404

:

always surprised to learn that

I'm, I'm really like laughing all

405

:

Jason English (Host): that

I'm, I'm really, lighthearted.

406

:

Davin McCoy: get the heavy shit

out in the song so that I don't

407

:

carry it around with me all day.

408

:

Cause if I didn't, I would.

409

:

I would, I would walk around with

it when I'm not writing or playing,

410

:

even if just not playing for a while.

411

:

It doesn't matter if it's a

pub or a festival or a show or

412

:

a theater, it doesn't matter.

413

:

I will start emotionally chew,

like I'm like a golden retriever.

414

:

I'll emotionally start chewing up

the carpet if I don't play enough.

415

:

And, uh, and it's probably not

the most functional way to exist,

416

:

but it is the way that I exist.

417

:

And it's probably too late to fix it.

418

:

Change it much now.

419

:

Jason English (Host): Well, I think like

if I did music reviews, I would probably

420

:

start out with a review of your music

with something like this, which was like,

421

:

you know, there's a guy, Leo Tolstoy

said, music is the shorthand of emotion.

422

:

Davin McCoy: I

423

:

Jason English (Host): I would say

music is a shorthand of emotion.

424

:

And Davin McCoy writes in calligraphy,

425

:

Davin McCoy: people.

426

:

Oh, man.

427

:

I said, can you write my new bio?

428

:

think we talked about

429

:

Jason English (Host):

That's a pretty good line,

430

:

Davin McCoy: a great

431

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

432

:

Cause like you, if anyone sees

you in, in person, it is a

433

:

lot, but being alive is a lot.

434

:

Having relationships is a lot.

435

:

Having kids is a lot.

436

:

Having friendships is a lot.

437

:

So it's like, that's kind of what.

438

:

music should be.

439

:

Davin McCoy: I, yeah, I agree with you.

440

:

I mean, that's definitely my

approach and that's, that's my

441

:

defense and too of what I do.

442

:

I mean, that's the best, more eloquently

put than I've probably ever put it.

443

:

Uh.

444

:

that's just

445

:

You know, and I have, I've had people

go like, man, play something happy, you

446

:

know, my very eloquent way of responding

to that is normally just go fuck

447

:

Jason English (Host): very eloquent

way of Well you've got Happy Life,

448

:

you've got Not at All to that.

449

:

Davin McCoy: life.

450

:

Yeah.

451

:

Yeah.

452

:

With you.

453

:

Yeah.

454

:

Yeah.

455

:

Yeah.

456

:

Um, yeah.

457

:

Which both have some sadness

behind them really, but, uh,

458

:

Jason English (Host):

We don't have to talk

459

:

Davin McCoy: no, I won't.

460

:

Yeah.

461

:

Yeah.

462

:

That's mine to keep.

463

:

there are people that are just,

464

:

you brought up the Ted Lasso thing.

465

:

Ted Lasso is a great example of,

that man is, you know, he's a

466

:

walking antidepressant from the

people around him, but he is.

467

:

You know, I thought it was so brilliant

the second season when they, when they

468

:

came back in with sort of the reality

that is so that you're going to have with

469

:

that, with that personality type, which

is he's going to be dealing with something

470

:

inside that he's compartmentalizing that

is going to eventually come out sideways.

471

:

And he, and I thought, I think they

did such a great job with the mental

472

:

health aspect of that side of it.

473

:

yeah, that's the thing is that there's,

there's a duality and you have to,

474

:

you've got to lean into both of them.

475

:

And some people lean into music for

that and other people's, uh, and other

476

:

people lean into it, uh, to really happy

music for the, for the other side of it.

477

:

And those people generally are probably

not going to have a great time if, if

478

:

they're at my show, sometimes they'll go,

wow, I feel I've had people come to me

479

:

and go like, I haven't felt emotions, you

know, or something like that in a while.

480

:

And I felt, you know, I've had

people tell me like it made me feel

481

:

uncomfortable, which I think is, I

think that's sort of, you know, punk

482

:

rock at its finest really is, is just

making people feel some shit that

483

:

they're not always comfortable feeling.

484

:

And then other people, it's just cathartic

to lean into it and, and they tend

485

:

to be drawn to, and I'm the same way.

486

:

I mean, shit give me, I'll go to

a, you know, I go to a Damien Rice,

487

:

you know, show over a mama's in

the Papa's show every day, all day.

488

:

Jason English (Host): And

there's a market for it.

489

:

I mean, some, some people

490

:

are like, well, you know,

491

:

music

492

:

music should be dancing and

happy and things like that.

493

:

But like you mentioned

Damien Rice, I think.

494

:

Yeah.

495

:

Gregory Allen Isakov off also

you're not gonna want to go, to the

496

:

carnival after listening Isakov.

497

:

Right.

498

:

But like, there's, there's a beauty to it.

499

:

Yeah.

500

:

There's, there's a, there's

501

:

Davin McCoy: there's, there's

a whole inner world that

502

:

allows you to experience a

503

:

some people are comfortable

in that space some people are

504

:

too comfortable in that space

505

:

to it.

506

:

It's just a whole

507

:

Jason English (Host): space.

508

:

Yeah.

509

:

Yeah.

510

:

Davin McCoy: the duality of the

universe that exists in every

511

:

single one of us, I think.

512

:

Jason English (Host): So we talked

about it's been 10 years since the

513

:

studio album, but, but you did release

something over the summer, which is

514

:

a live recording at a performance

at Eddie's attic here in Atlanta.

515

:

I guess.

516

:

What was the purpose of that?

517

:

Davin McCoy: of that?

518

:

I think Robbie wanted me to do it.

519

:

I think that

520

:

Jason English (Host): Robbie's

got ultimate ultimate authority.

521

:

Davin McCoy: I think he wanted me

to do it and I was happy to do it.

522

:

Uh, or I was sort of Yeah, I

thought, sure, why shouldn't we?

523

:

That's another thing that's changed as

well, is I don't feel as, um, I'm not

524

:

as afraid of, of, uh, of it not being,

of things not being perfect or anything.

525

:

You know, sort of, like when they

mixed down that record, I was

526

:

in there for about ten minutes.

527

:

I

528

:

I cannot sit here and listen to this.

529

:

I am out of here.

530

:

I trust you guys.

531

:

Tell me when it's done and send it to me.

532

:

just mix it how you think and just don't.

533

:

Don't chop anything out, don't tune

anything, but, but you guys can mix

534

:

it down and just release it because

I'll never be, you'll never hear me,

535

:

especially in a live recording, I'll

never, if it, if it requires me to

536

:

sit there and go, yes, that's great.

537

:

Put it out.

538

:

I'll never will.

539

:

and

540

:

it was

541

:

Jason English (Host): yes,

that's great, I'll never will.

542

:

I think I, when I did end up listening

543

:

Davin McCoy: when I did end up listening

to it a couple of times, I, I really

544

:

did think it was, it was, it was good.

545

:

I thought it was, I thought it

was a pretty good representative.

546

:

Yeah.

547

:

Um, representation.

548

:

And I'd like to do that.

549

:

That was, we, we did that because our

plan is, I think, to try to do release,

550

:

you know, one show at least once a year.

551

:

Um, and, um,

552

:

Jason English (Host): year.

553

:

You're

554

:

Davin McCoy: know, even if it's

555

:

in a different

556

:

a lot of song overlap and

stuff, um, I'm cool with it.

557

:

I think it's cool to have just,

558

:

Jason English (Host): So it

559

:

Davin McCoy: just always in a

different space when it's shit

560

:

that means something to you.

561

:

And so it comes out

different in a lot of ways.

562

:

Jason English (Host): Do you think

the new album will be more like that

563

:

than it was than your earlier stuff?

564

:

Davin McCoy: Yes, it'll be, this will be,

um, yeah, it'll be much closer to the goal

565

:

with this record is to be able to, if I'm

It's not going to be an acoustic record.

566

:

It's going to be, there'll be, uh,

plenty of instruments on it, but it'll

567

:

never feel like a, it's me with a band,

uh, because I don't plan on really

568

:

touring with a band again for some time.

569

:

And, um, so I want the record,

I want the record to be big

570

:

and atmospheric and all that.

571

:

But when you hear me play the

same songs live with just me and a

572

:

guitar or me and one other guy or

whatever, I don't want it to sound

573

:

like different versions of the songs.

574

:

I want it to sound like the same

song, just, just, um, A great example

575

:

is, uh, you kind of hear that with

a lot of like Ray stuff and Damien

576

:

Rye stuff and it's all, you know,

it's produced, but when he does it,

577

:

does most of them acoustic when either

one of them do or a lot of guys, uh,

578

:

it doesn't sound even bad to like Cat

Stevens, you know, whatever it was,

579

:

whatever the quality was about the

recordings when he played acoustic stuff

580

:

for him and just one other guy, it didn't

sound like this is the acoustic version,

581

:

you know, it just sounded like the song.

582

:

Jason English (Host): So I hope to

talk to you in muscle Shoals, while

583

:

you're recording, but I guess, can you

walk us through, what do you call it?

584

:

Pre production process?

585

:

what are some of those steps that

you've been doing the last couple of

586

:

months to prepare for muscle Shoals?

587

:

Just,

588

:

Davin McCoy: panicking.

589

:

That's probably the

thing I've done the most.

590

:

I've just been trying to sit with, um,

Some of these songs have, I have about,

591

:

I've probably done them 10 different ways.

592

:

Over the past bunch of years

So I've been trying to sit with

593

:

those and figure out what I like

the way I want to do them best.

594

:

I've been

595

:

um,

596

:

Sending tracks out to to those guys

out there to listen to and kind of get

597

:

a feel for so they can come up with

their what the production ideas and And

598

:

mostly just a lot of lyric cleaning up.

599

:

I've been going through and trying

to, you know, there's some of these

600

:

songs have 25 verses and that I've just

over the years that I've rewritten.

601

:

And um, so going back through all that,

which has been kind of neat, actually,

602

:

it's kind of sort of like reading your

journal in a lot of ways, obviously.

603

:

So I've been doing a lot of kind of lyric

cleanup and trying to find versions of

604

:

songs that I remembered that I liked that

that were recorded some way or another

605

:

and That's sort of what I think what

you sort of do you go through it and

606

:

and kind of

607

:

Kind of just take an inventory

pre production is sort of an

608

:

inventory and then once I get out

there and we do official We'll

609

:

do the studio pre production,

which is where we'll really sit.

610

:

Before we track, we'll sit, we'll

kind of draw out a map, like a brain

611

:

map concept of what the record is.

612

:

Dan is really, Dan Hannon is so, um,

613

:

he

614

:

He really brings a profundity and

like a weight to, uh, He, he said,

615

:

He said, you know, at some point I

realized that I don't, my, I, I'm

616

:

not a lot of producers approach.

617

:

It's sort of like they're making sort

of their record that you know, they're,

618

:

they're going to, they're, they have

decided what this record should be.

619

:

And great producers

have done that plenty of

620

:

Jason English (Host): many times,

621

:

Davin McCoy: but Dan is very,

I want to make your record.

622

:

I want to be the one to make your

record, which is pretty cool.

623

:

So we do, he does sort of a lot of, you

sit down and you really, I think it's

624

:

that kind of Rick Rubin school of thought,

you know, you got to kind of manipulate

625

:

in, get

626

:

and, um,

627

:

place you, you think

628

:

Get in getting, you know, get

the artist to the place you,

629

:

you think they need to be in.

630

:

And, and, um, and a lot of ping pong,

a lot of ping pong talks, you know, so

631

:

Jason English (Host): fun.

632

:

Davin McCoy: it'll be great.

633

:

I'm excited.

634

:

Right.

635

:

Jason English (Host): Alright.

636

:

Well, thanks for your time today.

637

:

Uh, I look forward to

seeing you in Muscle Shoals.

638

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah, man.

639

:

We're gonna have a good time.

640

:

Jason English (Host): kick your ass in

641

:

Davin McCoy: You need to

brush up on your ping pong

642

:

Jason English (Host): don't worry about

643

:

Davin McCoy: we will.

644

:

It's, it's intense.

645

:

Are you good?

646

:

Jason English (Host): I'm

647

:

Davin McCoy: Of course you

648

:

Jason English (Host): I'm

good, I'm good at Cornhole.

649

:

Davin McCoy: too.

650

:

Uh, yeah, you have that walk too,

you know, you walk like an athlete.

651

:

Um,

652

:

Jason English (Host): oh, oh boy.

653

:

Davin McCoy: uh, yeah, no, uh, I don't

know, hopefully if you get out there

654

:

and smoke me, I'm gonna be so bummed.

655

:

Jason English (Host): I'm going

to bring my cornhole boards too.

656

:

Davin McCoy: they probably

have them out there.

657

:

They've also got like those

splatter ball guns, the intense

658

:

Jason English (Host):

you told me about that.

659

:

Davin McCoy: Uh, we get out there and And

make some noise and, um, shoot each other.

660

:

We actually created a new ping pong.

661

:

That's what, that's what

662

:

Jason English (Host): play.

663

:

Oh, that's right.

664

:

The splatter ping pong.

665

:

Davin McCoy: hit with

paintballs while you're playing.

666

:

Um, be great.

667

:

Uh, Gary Nichols, you know, Dan

Hannan, Eli, um, Clint, uh, the

668

:

whole team out there is really great.

669

:

Um, It's going to be a lot of fun.

670

:

Don't put that part in there.

671

:

Cause I left out two names and

I can't think of them right

672

:

now.

673

:

Jason English (Host):

I'll I'll fix that in post

674

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah.

675

:

Fix it in post.

676

:

Yeah.

677

:

Cool, man.

678

:

Jason English (Host): man.

679

:

You appreciate

680

:

Davin McCoy: Thanks Jay.

681

:

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

682

:

episode of Curious Goldfish.

683

:

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

684

:

Also, tell your music

loving friends about us too.

685

:

Until next time, stay curious.

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