Shownotes
“The most important part of political organizations…is to start working whatever on your street, within your house, within your building, with the small problems that you have around yourself, and maybe you will fall in love with that part of politics, that part of civic engagement, and maybe that is the way to keep on going….” Malik Sakić, President, The European Democracy Youth Network.
Key Links
- Boy Scouts & Girl Guides in Libya (Video)
- IFES Engages Youth on Democracy and Human Rights Throughout Ukraine (Video)
- Strengthening Engagement Through Education for Democracy
- The European Democracy Youth Network
----
Across the planet, people under the age of 30 make up the largest youth count in history. Yet, despite the tough reality that many face significant threats to their happiness and livelihood, the next generation shimmers with some of the brightest stars on our horizon.
In this episode of Democracy! The Podcast, discover why Libya’s most trusted institutions, the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, are also the country’s top go-to groups for getting the most important messages right.
Then we head to the classroom in Ukraine to be schooled on a wildly popular civics class that’s changing more than just students’ schedules.
And, finally, he was born in wartime, but today Bosnia and Herzegovina's Malik Sakić is one of democracy’s biggest champions as president of the European Democracy Youth Network. Find out what he says drove him to get involved in public life, and his best advice for those looking to make a change, when he sits down to chat with Adrienne.
Democracy! The Podcast is brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening (CEPPS) with support from the United States Agency for International Development through the Global Elections and Political Transitions Award.
----
Follow CEPPS on Twitter.
Democracy! The Podcast is hosted by CEPPS and Adrienne Ross.
This podcast has been produced by the Consortium for Elections, and Political Process Strengthening through the Global Elections and Political Transitions award and is made possible by the generous support of the American people through the United States Agency for International Development.
Opinions expressed here are those of the host and the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the US Government. This show is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Hi, and welcome to Democracy!
Speaker:The Podcast that shines light on some of the darkest challenges facing the
Speaker:fight for democracy around the globe.
Speaker:"Democracy will and must prevail."
Speaker:[President Biden]
Speaker:This podcast is brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and
Speaker:Political Process Strengthening direct from Washington, DC, with support
Speaker:from our friends at the United States Agency for International Development
Speaker:through the Global Elections and Political Transitions Award.
Speaker:I'm your host, Adrienne Ross.
Speaker:Do you know that more than half of the population on
Speaker:earth is under the age of 30?
Speaker:Millennials worldwide are the largest living generation in the workforce.
Speaker:And today, 1.8 billion young people make up the largest youth count in history.
Speaker:So, if we're going to be talking about real democratic representation,
Speaker:we have to think about Generation Y and Z and the whole ABCs.
Speaker:They've already got a head start in Libya where the country's most
Speaker:trusted organizations, the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, are doing
Speaker:their part to combat hate speech, fake news, and disinformation.
Speaker:We'll get the full report from Tripoli, and then we go back to
Speaker:school in Ukraine to check out a college class that's changing lives.
Speaker:Amy Radlinski has all the details on the next generation.
Speaker:Young leaders worldwide are enjoying a real moment.
Speaker:In 2017 in New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern became the world's
Speaker:youngest head of government at 37.
Speaker:Sanna Marin in Finland is the current youngest sitting Prime Minister.
Speaker:El Salvador's President, Bukele, is often called Latin America's
Speaker:First Presidential Millennial.
Speaker:He won his race at 38 in 2019.
Speaker:Also, Ukraine's Prime Minister had reportedly just three months
Speaker:of government experience when he was appointed in 2019 at age 35.
Speaker:His boss, President Zelensky, is 43.
Speaker:Of the 1.8 billion young people in the world today, 90% of them
Speaker:live in developing countries.
Speaker:Their homes are often in countries where rising violent extremism,
Speaker:unemployment, climate change, and many other issues call for urgent investment.
Speaker:In Libya, for example, the size of the youth population is unprecedented at 67%.
Speaker:Fighting from the country's ongoing civil war and the risk of the pandemic has
Speaker:closed hundreds of much-needed schools.
Speaker:Now add the fog of disinformation, which can make it tough for
Speaker:anyone to know what to believe.
Speaker:So where do we begin?
Speaker:Anis Elwallani is the Senior Program Manager in Libya for the
Speaker:National Democratic Institute.
Speaker:He is a graduate of Tripoli Schools and joins us now to talk about
Speaker:the youth of his homeland and an innovative program aimed at the Boy
Speaker:Scouts and Girl Guides of Libya.
Speaker:First of all, what was it like for you growing up in Libya?
Speaker:It was funny.
Speaker:It was adventure a little bit.
Speaker:So, growing up in a middle class family, we faced a lot of issues and
Speaker:problems during the Gaddafi regime.
Speaker:My parents tried to invest in me and my brothers and sisters to keep
Speaker:studying, to build ourselves, to build our capacity, not to wait for
Speaker:anything to be provided for you.
Speaker:It was difficult a little bit.
Speaker:We didn't have that much of entertainment.
Speaker:As you know, dictatorship in Libya was very difficult.
Speaker:So you have certain amount of entertainment, activity that
Speaker:you could do easily and freely.
Speaker:So Scouts was my way to have fun.
Speaker:I was a Girl Scout, so I certainly appreciate that
Speaker:it really changes your life.
Speaker:Once a scout, always a scout.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Can you briefly tell us a little bit more about the disinformation problem in Libya
Speaker:and the region, and why it is important to raise awareness among the youth?
Speaker:So basically, in the region for the last ten years, it was a big problem.
Speaker:Many people now start using social media.
Speaker:Internet was the easy way to escape from reality.
Speaker:People start using social media and internet to spread rumors,
Speaker:creating more attention, people who are looking for attention, they
Speaker:just try to create any problem that could cause problem to other people.
Speaker:So they use the social media as a platform for this kind of poison.
Speaker:Recently, with the Arab Spring and all the pollution, the civil war
Speaker:happening in the region, people start using these platforms to hate each
Speaker:other, to create more conflict, to build the hate more than build peace.
Speaker:So it was one of the biggest reason for the conflict and problems happening
Speaker:in the whole region because of the disinformation and the fake news that
Speaker:was pushing the situation, create more problems, create more conflict.
Speaker:Not supporting the people to get healed from what happened during
Speaker:the wars, but they are making more difficult, more complicated, making
Speaker:people more involved in conflict they have no reason to be there.
Speaker:People lost their life, lost their jobs.
Speaker:People have been hurt a lot by this kind of disinformation.
Speaker:People being accused to be this and that, and they face a lot
Speaker:of problems because of this.
Speaker:And the region is different than like Europe or U.S.
Speaker:or other countries.
Speaker:So the reputation's very important.
Speaker:The main idea of the program is we'll try to make people understand more
Speaker:how they can find their information, the right information, which source,
Speaker:how you can do fact-checking, how to understand this is not a reliable source.
Speaker:So we try to raise awareness among the younger generation to try to
Speaker:do the fact-checking to understand not everything you see in the
Speaker:social media or on the internet that you can share and you believe.
Speaker:You need to do more fact-checking, understanding which source
Speaker:you use for your information.
Speaker:Not everything you read is true.
Speaker:So you need to do a little bit of work to understand the real information
Speaker:from the fake information because this could cause a problem for many people.
Speaker:And some people rely on this, even in their schooling, like when they
Speaker:are studying, any information they find they could use without doing
Speaker:fact-checking if this information is true.
Speaker:So what made you think about the Boy Scouts and the Girl Guides?
Speaker:In Libya, it's the most trusted organization.
Speaker:It's the largest, the oldest organization in the country,
Speaker:started during the kingdom days.
Speaker:So it's covered in old Libya soil.
Speaker:We have a huge number of Boys and Girl Scouts in Libya.
Speaker:They are very active.
Speaker:They try to help their community.
Speaker:They are trusted from the community.
Speaker:So when we started talking to the leadership of Boy Scouts of Tripoli,
Speaker:we explained about the idea how this project will be, how we're going
Speaker:to do campaign, how much the scouts are trusted from the community.
Speaker:So they started planning on something about this.
Speaker:They started this campaign after working with us on this project
Speaker:called Qul Jayid, in Arabic.
Speaker:So it's Say Good.
Speaker:Don't say bad things.
Speaker:If you want to say something, just say something good, or you don't say it.
Speaker:So we start with the nine cities in Libya.
Speaker:We start delivering training.
Speaker:But as you know, with COVID and the pandemic that was difficult, so now
Speaker:we do more activity on social media.
Speaker:We started doing some videos from Boy Scouts and Girl Guides in different
Speaker:cities to try to raise awareness about how much it's very bad to share bad
Speaker:news, how much is hurt when you say fake information and people will believe it,
Speaker:and this will affect my future as a kid.
Speaker:So we try to work with the scouts because they are the most trusted
Speaker:organization in the country.
Speaker:So they try to start the campaign on ground with the
Speaker:precaution of COVID procedure.
Speaker:Now they are working to do some videos.
Speaker:They tried to do some radio station shows.
Speaker:They tried to do some flashmob in certain area.
Speaker:They will try to do it in school.
Speaker:Schools are coming back soon.
Speaker:So they will try in each age, they will try to share this knowledge with other
Speaker:children, and they will try to share it with their parents, with their family.
Speaker:They will try videos.
Speaker:We plan to do some mural like graffiti on the wall.
Speaker:We will do like art gallery, like drawing about the fake news and disinformation.
Speaker:Soon, we're going to launch two games in Sharek about the info
Speaker:integrity and the fake news.
Speaker:So the young generation in this time, it's different than the young
Speaker:generation from like ten years ago.
Speaker:The kids in this time, they are aware of technology.
Speaker:They're using internet more than the older generation.
Speaker:So when you explain about them, how we take your information,
Speaker:which source, you'll be surprised.
Speaker:They know Wikipedia.
Speaker:They know how to Google.
Speaker:They know some news channel websites, not the TV channel, but the website.
Speaker:So they have a lot of info about how to get their information.
Speaker:They know like, oh, this celebrity, they have the blue sign, so this is an official
Speaker:account, so we trust this account.
Speaker:Oh, this is a musician and et cetera.
Speaker:So it wasn't difficult.
Speaker:Actually, it was difficult with maybe the older people when we delivered
Speaker:training for some leaders in older age, they don't have the same knowledge.
Speaker:They don't have the same background than the younger genderation.
Speaker:You actually train the scout leaders and they train their scouts?
Speaker:We start with the leaders from both gender from nine cities.
Speaker:So from south and west and center, and soon we'll have leaders
Speaker:from the east and the southeast.
Speaker:We'll have more representation.
Speaker:Then we start delivering training for the younger generation.
Speaker:Myself, I trained around fifty-five something between boys and girls in young
Speaker:age, starting from six-years-old and until 14 or 15, and some teenagers, as well.
Speaker:So, it was a great experience.
Speaker:Children, they have much knowledge.
Speaker:They are motivated to learn new things.
Speaker:They try to practice.
Speaker:They try to share this knowledge.
Speaker:It sounds like fun too.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Because we use games.
Speaker:So even the activity that we conduct, it's through games.
Speaker:Not just okay, the fake news is blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:We are not in school, or traditional school, so we try to make it more funny.
Speaker:It sounds like it will stay with them for their life too, for their lifetime.
Speaker:Kids, they start sending a message through the Facebook page like,
Speaker:hey, we know this is not an official source, so we don't read it anymore.
Speaker:We don't watch this channel because we don't know if it's
Speaker:stealing this cartoon or not.
Speaker:So children, they reflect in their own life what they see.
Speaker:And when they share it with their parents, they try to see what their
Speaker:parents are doing right, and what they're doing wrong because not everything
Speaker:we saw on TV or radio or website or social media is real or official.
Speaker:So this is will be a good impact on the children and their parents as well.
Speaker:What advice do you give other organizations looking to
Speaker:engage with youth politically?
Speaker:In Libya, as you know, we still have new life of politics.
Speaker:We didn't have any political life before, like, ten years ago.
Speaker:So many people now targeting the young or the youth in general because
Speaker:the majority of Libya is youth.
Speaker:It's more than 66% of the population are the young generation.
Speaker:They are so young.
Speaker:So, my advice is to keep focusing more about building your capacity, finding
Speaker:the best career to be, if you want to be involved, like in politics, learn more.
Speaker:Do not be the fuel of war because many people are using the younger
Speaker:generation as a fuel for conflict, but you cannot find many of them like
Speaker:exist in parliament, or municipality or government or cabinet, et cetera.
Speaker:So it's really sad to see the highest treasure the nation has, and they just
Speaker:throwing it on the ground because they are aiming to have more influence.
Speaker:It's excellent advice, and we certainly don't want children
Speaker:anywhere to be fuel for war.
Speaker:So excellently said.
Speaker:Anis, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Now, we head about 3000 miles Northwest from Libya to Ukraine.
Speaker:Gio Kobakhidze is the Deputy Country Director for the International Foundation
Speaker:for Electoral Systems in Ukraine and the Technical Lead on civic education.
Speaker:After a USAID-engaged civic poll showed that the number of people turning out
Speaker:to support democracy in Ukraine was the lowest among younger citizens, Gio and his
Speaker:team created and introduced an interactive semester-long civics class with funding
Speaker:from USAID, and launched it at accredited universities throughout the country.
Speaker:Gio is here now to tell us why he thinks youth engagement might
Speaker:have been so poor for so long.
Speaker:Thank you for having me, Adrienne.
Speaker:It is actually an auspicious day to have this conversation because it is
Speaker:now Ukraine's 30th anniversary of its independence from the Soviet Union.
Speaker:And over this period, young people have played a critical role in championing
Speaker:democratic progress for their nation.
Speaker:It was just over seven years ago that Ukraine experienced
Speaker:its revolution of dignity.
Speaker:At that time, thousands of brave Ukrainians took to the streets to
Speaker:demand their right to choose their own future and a better tomorrow.
Speaker:Many, including young people, sacrificed their own lives in pursuit of this goal.
Speaker:With this recent history in mind, and on the face of the research
Speaker:finding you referenced, which points to a lower level of engagement
Speaker:of youth does indeed stand out.
Speaker:And in response to your question, I would posit that, not withstanding progress in
Speaker:key areas in Ukraine such as electoral reform, for many Ukrainians and especially
Speaker:youth, the pace of post-revolution reform over these seven years has not
Speaker:necessarily met their expectations.
Speaker:Disenchantment with what many saw as a muzzled battle against corruption and
Speaker:stalled judicial efforts among other areas continue to pervade society to this day.
Speaker:On top of this, young people did not have educational opportunities to learn
Speaker:about their rights and responsibilities as democratic citizens, and thus,
Speaker:many young people I spoke with, while hopeful, felt frustrated and powerless.
Speaker:Many expressed a strong desire to contribute to ongoing reforms, and,
Speaker:more broadly, to their societies, but were not always sure where to start.
Speaker:So you thought a university-level course might help.
Speaker:What does the curriculum cover?
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:We believe strongly that education, in particular civic education, is
Speaker:a linchpin in building inclusive, resilient, and sustainable
Speaker:democracies that deliver for all.
Speaker:When done right, civic education empowers individuals to engage meaningfully
Speaker:in their country's democracy.
Speaker:Because without effective civic education, the opportunity for disinformation,
Speaker:corruption, and electoral fraud increases.
Speaker:The course itself is tailored for Ukraine by representatives of Ukrainian civil
Speaker:society and academia, and it's based on IFES's global, university-level civic
Speaker:education methodology named SEED, which stands for Strengthening Engagement
Speaker:Through Education for Democracy.
Speaker:The coursework introduces students to fundamental concepts of democratic
Speaker:citizenship, systems of governance, civic participation, and human rights.
Speaker:It does so through a highly interactive, student-centered learning
Speaker:environment that prioritizes active learning and critical thinking.
Speaker:Through the course, each semester, students develop their own civic
Speaker:action projects where they identify problems within their communities
Speaker:that they try and improve.
Speaker:Then, they bring these plans to life and actually go beyond the
Speaker:classroom and go on to make positive impacts in their own communities.
Speaker:These have included projects that have addressed gender-based violence, minority
Speaker:rights, corruption, voter education, and global warming, to name just a few.
Speaker:The interactive teaching methodology and action projects that I mentioned
Speaker:are designed not only to teach students about democracy, but also
Speaker:to help students experience democracy in and beyond their own classrooms.
Speaker:That's quite a class.
Speaker:What kind of students are you finding enroll in this class?
Speaker:What are their ambitions?
Speaker:Well, it's a good question, and thanks to the support of the United States Agency
Speaker:for International Development, USAID, Global Affairs Canada, and UK Aid from
Speaker:the UK government, the course is now available throughout the country to over
Speaker:thirty-nine universities and growing.
Speaker:So now thousands of students in all types of universities from the medical
Speaker:university, to the law university, from Kharkiv in the east, to Lviv
Speaker:in the west, to Odessa in the south, students all over Ukraine now get the
Speaker:experience of this type of modern, interactive, civic education course.
Speaker:So it really, really has the broad spectrum of passionate, motivated,
Speaker:talented Ukrainian youth who are taking this class, and many have
Speaker:already gone on to do amazing things.
Speaker:I also want to point out that through this entire experience, we've had the
Speaker:benefit of meeting and partnering with incredible, university-level civic
Speaker:educators throughout Ukraine, and professors who are incredibly passionate,
Speaker:and are really the foundation of strengthening Ukrainian democracy and
Speaker:really strengthening Ukraine's future.
Speaker:And we see it in their work.
Speaker:We see it in their classrooms every day.
Speaker:Well, we certainly know that's important.
Speaker:But why is it important to have these courses for university students?
Speaker:Ideally, democratic civic education should start as early as possible
Speaker:and continue throughout the course of our academic journeys.
Speaker:Unfortunately, it is also often overlooked by nations, and because
Speaker:of this, its absence becomes the Achilles' heel for developing
Speaker:and mature democracies worldwide.
Speaker:In Ukraine, the percentage of youth enrolled in university
Speaker:is very high comparatively.
Speaker:It also includes an age range that is, for the first time, having the
Speaker:possibility to vote in elections and to engage in civic life more deeply.
Speaker:We were also very fortunate to receive strong support from Ukraine's
Speaker:Ministry of Education and Sciences, as well as our university partners.
Speaker:On this question, it's also important to note that while Ukraine and other regions
Speaker:in the area aspire toward greater European integration, its formal structures of
Speaker:education are too often hampered by a Soviet legacy of strict punitive relations
Speaker:of power between students and teachers.
Speaker:That structure often prioritized memorization and passive learning
Speaker:over student-centered interactive teaching that stimulates soft and
Speaker:hard skills, like critical thinking and digital literacy, for example.
Speaker:I'm sure we have plenty of teachers listening who will agree with that.
Speaker:What can you tell us about what your alumni of this program have gone on to do?
Speaker:Do you track them?
Speaker:Do you know where they are?
Speaker:We've had the fortune of meeting with many students, with many teachers.
Speaker:We, of course, evaluate coursework itself and the teaching methodology that we
Speaker:use, and through a range of the tools we have, we have been able to demonstrate
Speaker:that students really, analytically, gained knowledge and skills and attitudes
Speaker:that they themselves identify as being essential for them to, for example,
Speaker:monitor and hold their governments more accountable, to protect their
Speaker:own rights, to protect the rights of others, and to be a successful citizen
Speaker:and informed citizen in the digital age.
Speaker:Now, with thousands of students across the country, over thirty-nine
Speaker:universities, for us, this is something that really fuels us.
Speaker:It gives us energy when we get to experience the teachers when we
Speaker:get to experience the students.
Speaker:In the context, and in the framework of what we see globally, of democracy
Speaker:under attack, of the threats that are very much real, and, in some sense,
Speaker:increasing over the years to democracy, this truly gives all of us at IFES a
Speaker:sense of hope as we see today's and tomorrow's leaders really taking on the
Speaker:mental understanding that yes, democracy is messy, it's difficult, but that it
Speaker:is really the responsibility of each generation to defend it, to uphold it, and
Speaker:to make sure it survives for our children, for our grandchildren, and so on.
Speaker:Do you know if any of your students have run for office?
Speaker:Yes, we have had some that have gone into politics.
Speaker:We have some that have gone into election administration.
Speaker:We have others that went into other spheres, the human rights defenders.
Speaker:So there are many examples of students taking what they learned in the
Speaker:course in to their everyday lives.
Speaker:What we have seen over the last multiple decades as IFES, and that is that
Speaker:effective civic education is essential.
Speaker:It's not an option.
Speaker:It's essential for resilient, robust democracies.
Speaker:And, indeed, there has never been, arguably, a time as important as it
Speaker:is today with all of the threats that we see to democracy in today's reality
Speaker:with the onset of the digital age.
Speaker:So my message, my call-out, my shout-out is for all of us, irrespective of
Speaker:where we live, irrespective of how many years perhaps we have had free
Speaker:and fair elections, we must all take a very deep look into our own
Speaker:educational structures and critically consider are we doing enough?
Speaker:Can we do more?
Speaker:And if not, where do our youth, where do our students, where
Speaker:do they learn about democracy?
Speaker:How do they understand their own role vis-a-vis society?
Speaker:And with all of the various distractions we all have nowadays?
Speaker:And if the answer is we can do more, I think we should all roll
Speaker:up our sleeves and see what we can do to realize this and to secure
Speaker:our democracies, and even go beyond securing it to make them more resilient.
Speaker:Gio, thank you for these important words on education.
Speaker:We really appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker:Thank you very much, Adrienne.
Speaker:It was my pleasure to join you.
Speaker:We turn now to a recent college grad to talk more about getting people
Speaker:into politics at an earlier age.
Speaker:Malik Salvić is the President of the European Democracy Youth Network,
Speaker:which is supported by CEPPS Partners.
Speaker:Malik graduated this year from the College of Computer Science and Business
Speaker:Communications Empirica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and hosts one of the
Speaker:country's most popular podcasts where he talks to inspiring young leaders.
Speaker:Malik joins me now and shares some tough talk on the serious challenges
Speaker:facing his friends, and explains what drives him to be so politically engaged.
Speaker:We are still going through the transition process of the former communist countries,
Speaker:and even though, like most of the countries here have their democratic
Speaker:systems for over thirty years, you still have politicians from the former systems
Speaker:being involved within the government, and it's not working really well
Speaker:because they are used to something else.
Speaker:If you're a young person from mostly Eastern Europe, from the Balkans,
Speaker:and you're able to see this your whole life and your whole life is
Speaker:just a series of bad events here.
Speaker:If that happens every day, something, like at the age of 16, 15, 17 just snaps within
Speaker:your head and it gets you to be involved.
Speaker:Then, I would say, the series of bad events that is happening
Speaker:within our countries on a daily basis, it just gets you going to
Speaker:be involved with everything here.
Speaker:Is that what happened to you?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Unfortunately, I was born within a family, my father was killed in a
Speaker:war five months before I was born.
Speaker:He was fighting for democracy of this country.
Speaker:Our country was attacked, and he was fighting for a better future for
Speaker:me, my mom, and my family members.
Speaker:Seeing that almost, I don't know, ten, fifteen years, twenty years
Speaker:after he died, unfortunately, not a lot of things have changed.
Speaker:A lot of people who were bad people during that period are still involved
Speaker:with the government, and it's just somewhere in your head it's unfair.
Speaker:And it gives you fuel to be involved with everything here.
Speaker:And just to see that someone who fought for the freedom of this
Speaker:country hasn't done it for nothing.
Speaker:The fight for democracy never stops.
Speaker:It just changes the way we fight with it, but it will never stop.
Speaker:You will always have bad people who want to be involved with this in a different
Speaker:way, but you have to keep on fighting.
Speaker:Do you feel like you're carrying your dad's legacy forward?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I'm not sure at this point that I have to give a life for my country because
Speaker:we're not in a war or anything, but I feel that I have to give myself with all
Speaker:of my resources and everything that I do.
Speaker:That is why I try to be involved in as many organizations as possible here and
Speaker:try to especially work with young people.
Speaker:It's important to be on the side which will try to empower as much as possible
Speaker:for younger generations in order to keep fighting because younger generations are
Speaker:the future of this country, and if we keep losing them, all of this will break apart.
Speaker:Do you think that that hopelessness is the number one complaint you
Speaker:hear from peers in your country?
Speaker:The number one problem of young people here, it's about unemployment.
Speaker:It's about not seeing a better future.
Speaker:Where do you tell your peers to start?
Speaker:I think getting started is definitely the hardest part of this job, the hardest
Speaker:part of any civil activities here.
Speaker:Because if you get started with doing something here, a lot of people who are,
Speaker:as I mentioned, sick of this country will tell you, "You don't have to do this."
Speaker:"Everybody hates you here."
Speaker:"You're not going to change anything."
Speaker:If you're on your first day of your civil activities, you will have
Speaker:at least twenty to thirty people telling you that it's a bad idea.
Speaker:That is the number one issue, it's starting here because that is what gets
Speaker:all of those huge number of people who want to be a part of it just to step back.
Speaker:Also, we are used to it, but by the older generations, if you start doing something,
Speaker:you should see a change overnight.
Speaker:That mostly never happens.
Speaker:Especially if it's about the government or something.
Speaker:Like sometimes you need a whole mandate just to clean the mess up.
Speaker:But I wanted to mention something else.
Speaker:We work with young people, we try to teach them about personal responsibility.
Speaker:Like even though this is a country where there's millions of people involved, but
Speaker:if you start working on yourself - I think Jordan Peterson said that if you make your
Speaker:bed in the morning, you'll definitely be able to change the world at some point.
Speaker:Because if you start doing with yourself with the smallest steps in your life,
Speaker:and if all of us did this, if all of us just cleaned our backyards every
Speaker:morning, this would be a better country.
Speaker:And we start with teaching that.
Speaker:Just start with the smallest steps from the point when you wake up.
Speaker:That way, you will have momentum of good examples happening from day one
Speaker:and everything else after that will just be a bigger accomplishment.
Speaker:Well, I think that's really aspirational, but if we were to
Speaker:break it down a little bit, what would you tell people to do first?
Speaker:Everyone doesn't have to run for office, right?
Speaker:Not every one of us could be the president.
Speaker:Especially if you have over 200 million people, not everybody
Speaker:could be the president.
Speaker:But we keep forgetting that the most important part of political
Speaker:organizations or of any organizations are your local organization.
Speaker:Start working within your street, within your house, within your
Speaker:building with the small problems that you have around yourself.
Speaker:And maybe you will fall in love with that part of politics,
Speaker:that part of civil engagement.
Speaker:And that is the way to keep on going.
Speaker:A lot of us when we start working, we get discouraged if we are not on
Speaker:the parliament list after two years.
Speaker:That's not going to happen because you have a lot of people who have been doing
Speaker:an amazing job for ten to fifteen years.
Speaker:They've set their names up.
Speaker:In order to go there, you have to start with the smallest steps
Speaker:within your local organization.
Speaker:I think that's excellent advice.
Speaker:Malik, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker:This has been fantastic.
Speaker:Thank you so much for inviting me.
Speaker:It was awesome.
Speaker:Coming up on the next episode of Democracy!
Speaker:The Podcast, we head to Tunisia where some women have been breaking the government's
Speaker:glass ceiling since the 1950s.
Speaker:But for others, getting involved in the political process has
Speaker:been a bit more of a challenge.
Speaker:Here are the surprising transformations some women experienced when they
Speaker:finally had a chance to vote.
Speaker:We'll get their full story.
Speaker:That's ahead on our next episode of Democracy!
Speaker:The Podcast.
Speaker:This podcast has been produced by the Consortium for Elections and Political
Speaker:Process Strengthening through the Global Elections and Political Transitions
Speaker:Award, and is made possible by the generous support of the American
Speaker:people through the United States Agency for International Development.
Speaker:Opinions expressed here are those of the hosts and the guests,
Speaker:and do not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the U.S.
Speaker:Government, and is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media.
Speaker:For more information on Democracy!
Speaker:The Podcast, and to access the complete archives, please