Shownotes
Nicole Lange is a trauma-informed acupuncturist who specializes in fertility care. For the past 18 years, she’s supported countless couples through their fertility and pregnancy journeys. In this episode, you’ll learn how her approach goes beyond needles, blending emotional awareness with physical healing, and why acupuncture can be a powerful, transformative tool on your path to conception.
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STOP wasting time and grasping at straws. Let’s navigate your fertility journey together, so you can feel more confident and in control for this next BIG chapter of your life. Within the Fertility 101 membership, you'll join me - Dr. Jane, Naturopathic Doctor and a Natural Fertility expert, to learn how to optimize your hormones, improve egg quality and enhance your fertility naturally.
Every month, Dr. Jane takes on 2 couples where she works with them 1:1 to identify and overcome the root cause of their infertility.
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Key Takeways
5:02 Trauma's impact on fertility and treatment
10:46 Connecting trauma and healing in fertility
15:11 Understanding patterns in fertility struggles
21:48 Root causes of infertility beyond the surface
27:22 Explaining acupuncture's effects scientifically
33:50 Creating intentional healing spaces for patients
39:24 Analogies to understand Chinese medicine concepts
49:59 Importance of intention in healing practices
54:54 Advice for those struggling with infertility
Memorable Quotes
"Wherever you enter in in service of that person being more whole and more safe and more balanced in between their nervous system states, you're going to make progress."
"I say all the time, it's not about just getting pregnant. We put on these baby blinders where it's like, just get a baby by any means necessary, and then we can put together our mental health or our digestion or our relationships."
"Every single intense feeling and reaction is appropriate based on the conditions. Whether the conditions are a less than ideal microbiome or acute grief or past trauma that's been living in your nervous system. These are all there for a reason. And the only way that we change those things is by changing conditions."
Connect with Nicole
Website - https://www.lifehealinglife.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/notafixer/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lifehealinglife/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@thebabyyou
Resources Mentioned
"The Extra Awful Infertility Guide," as well as an extensive blog, and Youtube channel it can all be accessed via https://www.lifehealinglife.com/online-fertility-education
Connect With Dr. Jane Levesque
Click Here To Sign Up For Dr. Jane’s Hormones Masterclass
Website - https://www.drjanelevesque.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drjanelevesque/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrJaneLevesque/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@dr.janelevesque7319
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Transcripts
Wherever you enter in in service of that person being more whole and more safe and more balanced in between their nervous system states, you're going to make progress. So I like to explain the pattern. I use report of findings with my patients where I explain their patterns. I give it to them in writing. I use an analogy that I talk about the body like it's a bank account. And so, you know, kidney deficiency is your starting balance. The constitution, your parents, fertility, the income is eating and breathing and the health of those systems. And if they can assimilate that income and if you have a crooked accountant because your gut is all off or something like that, right? And then spending and savings is lifestyle bad investments.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Pregnancy is a natural process. So if it's not happening or if it's not sticking, something is missing. After having a family member go through infertility and experiencing a miscarriage myself, I realized how little support and education women have around infertility. I want to Change that. I'm Dr. Jane Levesque. I'm a naturopathic doctor and a natural fertility expert. Tune in every Tuesday at 9am for insightful case studies, expert interviews, and practical tips on how you can optimize fertility naturally. If you've been struggling with infertility, pregnancy loss, women's health issues, or you just want to be proactive and prepare yourself for the next big chapter in your life, this show is for you. Hey, guys. Today I sat down with Nicole Lange, who is an acupuncturist and she specializes in fertility. And she's trauma informed, which basically means that she looks at the full person and helps her clients understand how trauma, whether that trauma is from infertility or from previous traumas, is impacting their overall well being. And of course, the outcome that they will have through their fertility treatments, whether they're trying to conceive naturally or with the assistance of reproductive technology. I loved our conversation and I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did. Hi, Nicole. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for finding me.
Nicole Lange:Thank you for having me and saying yes.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Well, I am always intrigued to speak to fellow practitioners in the fertility space and I love all aspects of it. There is the physical aspects and there's mental and emotional. And, you know, with your work in acupuncture and trauma, I'd love to hear just a little bit about how did you get into this? How did you figure out that trauma was a big component of infertility? And yeah, because it's a niche. But I think we're seeing that more and More?
Nicole Lange:Yeah. And I'm hoping to change the idea that it's a niche even, because it's something that fertility creates. Right. So if we don't come with it, we often get it in this process. So I think it should be woven into how we're thinking about fertility. But for me, I came to acupuncture first with my own trauma. So I had some childhood aces and adversity stuff that kind of set me up for certain kinds of thought patterns and situations. And then, unfortunately, when I was a later teen, I was sexually assaulted, and I ended up attempting suicide and in the intensive care unit and then in the psychiatric hospital. And I knew nothing besides Western medicine. I was a kid that was on antibiotics monthly for strep throat, and I did the Western medicine. So it was like, okay, here's your anxiety pill, here's your depression pill, here's your sleep pill. You have terrible periods, birth control, and your stomach aches. That's just because you're stressed. Work on that. And so I did that for a long time, and it never crossed my mind to do anything else until I kind of got as far as it could take me. And some little things started sneaking in where it was like, there's these other ways of looking at it. And it felt really out there at first, but there was just enough of a hook and enough desperation, honestly, to feel better. And so I came to it, and I was really drawn. I originally intended to study genetics, so when I looked at a master's degree in Chinese medicine, I discovered a third of it was Western medicine. And so I was like, you have me at cadaver. So I showed up not knowing anything, not really having experienced Chinese medicine, just with a curiosity. So between my trauma and my complete lack of exposure to how Chinese medicine was typically practiced, as I started going through the program, I was like, wait a second. We're supposed to look at all the parts of the person but not explain it to them? And I was like, that seems like we're missing something, because that's what helps me the most on the patient end of it. And we're supposed to tell them what herbs to take, but not explain what their Chinese medicine patterns are and not give them real context for what we're doing and why we're doing it and how they got there for when they walk out the door. And I was like, I don't think I want to do it that way.
Dr. Jane Levesque:It's funny you say that, because my patients, who I'm like, go to an acupuncturist but make sure you get the pattern. Like, I want to know.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Because a lot of the times they just walk in and they're like, I don't know, they just put a bunch of needles in me and they hop on the table. Yeah.
Nicole Lange:Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And I was like, no, I want you to know what pattern it is because it actually helps me as a naturopath as well. And usually there's, you know, lineage. Like, there's a lot of crossover in terms of what acupuncture is doing and what we're doing. And it's funny that you say that, because I'm that person too. I'm like, I want to understand because that helps me make a connection and then I can be more with my actions.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. And it's like, what do you know? You're not going to see an acupuncturist twice a week for the rest of your life or once a week for the rest of your life. You shouldn't need to. I think once you kind of understand your body and how you got there and the control that you have and also kind of process the things you don't control and learn how to relate in healthy ways, then all of a sudden you shift where your body's at. You shift how uphill everything else is. And then you can spot treat the reductionistic stuff and you make more progress faster. You tolerate the reductionistic treatments that maybe aren't so holistic, better. They work faster. The outcomes are actually better. So I say all the time, it's not about just getting pregnant. You know, I say we put on these baby blinders where it's like, just get a baby by any means necessary, and then we can put together our mental health or our digestion or our relationships. And, you know, that's making that treatment, anything you're doing, more uphill because we'll talk about more of the implications. You know, the physiological things that does in your body are so real. It's not just an emotional experience that's not so pleasant. So we do that. The treatments work faster. The treatments work better. If they don't work, because it not always does, you're in a better place to tolerate and make better clear choices. And then you move into a healthier and healthier way to become a parent. And I heard you talking on some of your shows about Jane Goodall's generational health, and I love that so much. You know, we don't want to pass around, pass over a bunch of generational trauma from stuff that came before fertility and Definitely not from fertility itself. And it's a real disservice that we're in a culture that says that that's just how it kind of is when it doesn't need to be.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. And, you know, I've been, from a generational perspective and like to bring science to it, we pass as mothers, we pass 100% of our mitochondrial DNA. And you need this mitochondrial DNA to function properly, to have good function of the oocytes and good quality of those eggs. Because as the egg is growing and maturing, there's a lot of. There's a huge increase in mitochondria. Like, there's new mitochondria that's formed in the mitochondrial DNA. The healthier it is, the more mitochondria we can make, and the healthier the mitochondria, the healthier it's all connected. And so if there is any mitochondrial DNA damage that's being passed on, smaller accumulations might not cause any issues. Infertility. But as it accumulates over time, the smaller damage, I should say. But as it accumulates over time, we are seeing infertility crisis, and that is kind of where we're at. And gift or curse women who are trying to have a baby now, that is very difficult. I think there's more women out there that are having a difficult time, unfortunately than not. It's. I look at it as an opportunity to rewrite history as opposed to, you know, like, I guess I'm just stuck with this. It is a big responsibility, but it's very possible. And there's so many components to it. And I think trauma, like, they just had a study was on male fertility, but how a trauma in the male will change their sperm and their methylation in future generations. Like, yeah, wild stuff there. It's. We have science and research showing it, you know, and backing it.
Nicole Lange:Yeah, absolutely. And, like, that's just one of many mechanisms. Right. And I say all the time, it's not the stress, it's how we're relating and what we're doing with it. Right. Because some stress cycle is totally healthy and necessary. Sometimes we grow from it. But when it's unrelenting and unprocessed and just lives in our physiology and it shows up in our cytokines, it shows up in our mitochondria, it shows up in our stickiness of our platelets and all these things, and, you know, if it were just that and we were chasing after it just to fix those things, I think that would be the typical path of infertility. But it's like we can actually help heal whole people and treat women like the nuanced, complex, amazing creatures that they are.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Amazing.
Nicole Lange:And prevent this. Right. I saw this article in the NPR person was saying, we treated the baby like it's the Reese's peanut butter cup. And we treat the mom like it's that oily paper thing that you just throw away that's just like disposable. And it's like, we are all peanut butter cups. We deserve. Yeah, we deserve to be treated like whole nuanced humans. And that's not a luxury. That's not a woo woo, floofy kind of layer. That is good health.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. It's necessary health care at this point. I think it's necessity. I did. Sorry we went into a segue. But how did you get into understanding? Because you school all this trauma, you didn't realize how much the connection we weren't making to help patients understand. When did you make that connection? And how did you realize that trauma was like a really big component of healing?
Nicole Lange:Yeah, I mean, just incrementally, like so many things. But I think the springboard for it was I was invited about, you know, by. So I said, I only want to do trauma and women's health because of my history. So I put all this extra study into that. And when I opened my doors, I said, only patients that fall into this is what I'm gonna do. And by six months, I had a wait list and I was explaining patterns and I was giving them things to do in between and all of that. And so I got asked to lead sessions in this Alice Domar Mind Body Fertility course that was happening in the Twin Cities. And when I went there, it was just. It made me cry to sit with the overwhelming suffering that fertility was. And when I was looking at it, I was like, this is so unnecessary, you know, when you're like, I'm gonna put off everything that I crave and want and, like, I'm going to do only things that make me feel overwhelmed and triggered and reductionistically correct, but done in a way that holistically is one step forward, two steps back. And it's like, if we can, you know, communicate that and change that, then it's just so much better. Like I said on all the ways. So I saw that. I wrote my first meditation and I called it Living versus Longing. And. And it's on my website. And it's just about, like, what if we tried in a different way? Like, what if this was still trying really hard, but It's a way that is like, I matter as I'm trying, and that's gonna help. And so.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And I'm still gonna live my life.
Nicole Lange:That's what I've done.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:My life. I just had a couple who was like, I just wanna start living my life again. Like, I'm so tired. Yeah. Of all the treatment. And it's been five years. It's not like it's been five months. It's like it's five years of your life that's just gone. Because.
Nicole Lange:And it's so slippery, right? It's, like, very slippery. You know, just for this next. Just until I get done with this egg retrieval. Just until I get through this fet. My F E T got canceled. Just until I do. You know, all of a sudden, it's five years. It's eight years. You know, I've talked with people that are like. Sometimes the people that get this concept the most kind of powerfully are the people that actually get the alternative beat out of them. You know, And I wouldn't wish that on anybody. But they're just. They get to this point where they're like, I don't care. I've done it for five years. Where I do everything right in a way that is traumatic and stressful and triggery, and I'm done. And then they're just like, I am going through the motions. I have one embryo left. I have this timeline in my mind. And then everything works the best. And, you know, I wish I could push a button on somebody's back and just make them magically shift.
Dr. Jane Levesque:A couple of bracing instead of thinking already. I was like, God, if I could just press my button for you.
Nicole Lange:But, yeah. Yeah, but we can't. But we can certainly meet them where they are and just keep delivering this message and keep reminding them and keep saying, you know, this is. You could try this here. How might this feel? I had a patient who. She had lost her first daughter shortly after birth and had her second daughter, and she was trying for their third. And she just said, I just have this doll that I'm waiting to give my second daughter to tell her she's gonna be a big sister, and she should have already had a sister. And I just. You know, I see this, and it breaks my heart. And I was like, what would that do to give her it right now? Like, to see her with that doll? And she sent me a text of her daughter with that doll, and I just burst into tears. Cause I thought the energy that shift represented was just amazing. And you know, she's. Her cycles were better and she felt a lot better and it just shifted something. And it wasn't like she wasn't doing IVF still. Of course she was.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah, yeah. Powerful. I get. I have to. I mean, we see all sorts of things. The early losses, the late losses, the losses of your. It's like, it's so heavy. And I think sometimes we protect ourselves because we don't actually want to feel the pain. Like as practitioners, but then as patients, you just get stoked. You said the baby blinders and move on. But our body just accumulates all of it.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:You know.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:It lives and the accumulation is what's. It's heavy.
Nicole Lange:Yeah, yeah. And it's Stephen Colbert, the late night host. He's got some serious childhood trauma. And I love when he talks about grief and trauma and he talks about it like it's a tiger that's walked next to him his whole life and it's like it's big and it's dangerous and it can pounce that grief and that trauma. And yet it's been walking next to him his whole life and he knows it and it's a part of his entire experience. And so I don't believe things happen for a reason, but I believe we have a choice with what we do and we can get swept away in this sort of typical path in baby blinders where we can be like, no, not cool, let's not do that anymore, for sure.
Dr. Jane Levesque:I love one of the questions that I'm kind of most intrigued about is the patterns that you are observing in terms of the type of trauma and then specific to fertility struggles. So are you seeing specific traumas that are associated with pcos or endometriosis or ovarian function?
Nicole Lange:Yeah, I don't think about it as like a specific trauma equals a specific diagnosis. I think about specific trauma being a specific way to work with any diagnosis. Right. So when a person has, say, childhood adverse experiences, so something that's been in their nervous system, that's been conditioned. Right. And they're going to be. I'm not going to count on anybody else to help me out. I'm going to do everything myself. I'm going to do it faster, I'm going to do it harder, I'm going to do it better. And so that lives in their nervous system. And so when they approach infertility, that's going to come along with them. And so this is neural pathways that are just reinforced to like, what else can I add? What else can I go harder on. How else can I get black and white here? And the idea of pruning or.
Dr. Jane Levesque:I have to do it on my own.
Nicole Lange:I have to do it on my own. I. You know, I'm going to read every book, I'm going to be on every forum. I'm going to, you know, and it's threatening, right? It was really, really amazing that their nervous system could do this to protect them when they needed it. But in infertility, infertility struggles, it doesn't serve them at all because it's like, even though it's so familiar, it doesn't feel threatening to the body. It absolutely is. I say it's like you trained your nervous system. If your nervous system is a horse. It's like you trained your horse from childhood that every morning it wakes up and you go up a mountain and it's like, you know that mountain so well. Every once in a while, the little hoofs might slip down the side of the mountain and the rubble might slide down and you might have a meltdown and be like, I can't. But the next morning you wake up and it's like, this is what I do. And so for, you know, regardless of if it's PCOS or endo or, this would tend to feed into more Qi stagnation and blood stasis patterns in Chinese medicine. Right. But it can also overlap with lots of other deficiencies and other patterns. But you just see if there's stasis.
Dr. Jane Levesque:In the blood, you're going to see blood is everywhere.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. And then you see, you know, that clenchiness of like, but I want to fix it. And it's like, ooh. And now we're. Now the way that you're trying to fix it is feeding into the. Going up the mountain, and it still feels dangerous. And so we have to help people see this and understand it so that they can take that force, that amazing drive that they have that has served them and channel it into, like, I am going to learn how to bring my horse up a mountain where it serves me, and also how to get in the pasture sometimes. And, like, at first, this is where this idea of just relax is so offensive, because it's like the mountain passes is a superhighway. Right. It's like, if I neurologically had any connections that have ever done that, I certainly would love to, but I literally don't have the neural connections. I don't have the Qi patterns, I don't have the blood patterns to know what that is. And so anything that's unfamiliar is actually stressful. So now we make relaxing feel cognitively unfamiliar and stressful. So now you're like, I'm bad at relaxing. I can't relax. I'm stressed about my stress.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And again, you don't know how to relax.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. So, you know, it's like small little things where it's like, okay, we want to channel that force that is you. That, like, horsepower into, like, we're gonna put your horse in a pasture for five minutes. And, like, if you've ever seen a real horse and a foreign circumstance, they are real skittish, right? And you're gonna be like, no, I just wanna go and unload the dishwasher. You know, I just wanna pee on something and see if I'm ovulating. And I just wanna do one up the mountain. And it's like. But the only way you reinforce those neural connections is by using them. And so you have to do this. I had a person that I was teaching this to, and she was so lovely and so funny. She had every reason in the world to know the mountain pass. And she would come in the first few weeks. I was her third acupuncturist. The other two I'd asked, what did they do? They were treating QI stagnation. They were treating blood stasis. They were doing all the things that were totally appropriate. They had her own herbs that were appropriate. She went to her clinic and had the worst Doppler study they had ever seen. Terrible bedside manner thing to tell a person, but that's what they told her. And so she fired her acupuncturist and came to me and was like, fix this. And I'm like, well, okay, you were technically doing all the things, but did you. How did you feel about this? And she's like, I hate electrostim acupuncture. Don't like how it feels. And it's like, well, let's not do that. I think the herbs are disgusting. I. You know, I'm choking them down. They gave me the ones that I have to strain and make myself. I'm like, well, let's not do that. And I am so busy. I have 50,000 things and I'm coming in two times a week. I'm like, let's do once. And she would come in the first few weeks, and she would sit down and she'd be like, well, my horse hates you, Nicole. I was like, yeah, it would be weird if your horse in two weeks would be like, yes, this is totally great. But after about Two months she was getting it. And she just, you know, I. When she was pregnant and she was working with fertility care, and I think it's having the best of both worlds. Right. But she had struck out with prior clinics for IVF as well. She went back and her doctor was totally normal. She was doing less, she was doing more things that she was actually craving and wanting. And she had a perfectly healthy Doppler study, and she got pregnant and she said, you know, I thought you needed to improve my pelvic blood flow. And really, you needed me to not teach my kids how to be like this and from all this trauma in my family. So. So cool.
Dr. Jane Levesque:It's. Yeah. I mean, a lot of my patients, I'm thinking of a few right now, as we're speaking where we go a lot into. I don't know if you're finding this as well, but I find the trauma of infertility is usually not the root cause trauma.
Nicole Lange:Right.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Like, there was a lot of other things that led. And then there is. The infertility itself is very traumatic, but there is usually so many, you know, those defining years between zero to seven. And even when. How the mom was when she was pregnant with you, and knowing the health of the mother and even the grandmother of, like, the genetic, you know, variation where I have a patient was like, I don't know what it's like to be calm. Like, I just. That's not an experience that I've ever witnessed. And it's not, if I think about her mom in the way that she describes her. And it's like, well, that's how you feel.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:There's this great fear of becoming your mom. And then also, like, as somebody who doesn't have kids yet, for somebody who doesn't have kids yet, you are like, I don't want to pass this on. And now there's this guilt of wanting to be perfect before you even, you know, have your child. So I'm curious how you kind of navigate and what you bring. I do a lot of, like, I just bring attention to the pattern first, you know, because awareness is the first step, and then it's, you know, changing the behaviors. But I'm curious just from your standpoint in terms of bringing awareness to the trauma or anything else that you do.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:With patients.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. And I think you did such a lovely job of illustrating, like, death by a thousand little traumas and a thousand injuries right within the present, within the past, known, unknown, generational. And so I like to start where people feel drawn to so if somebody is like, it's just fertility. I'm not gonna talk about the prior stuff. If somebody is like, I know it's because of this and I, I'm carrying this forward, then we go there. So there's. Wherever you enter in in service of that person being more whole and more safe and more balanced in between their nervous system states, you're gonna make progress. So I like to explain the pattern. I use report of findings with my patients, where I explain their patterns. I give it to them in writing. I use an analogy that I talk about the body like it's a bank account. And so, you know, kidney deficiency is your starting balance. The constitution, your parents fertility, the income is eating and breathing and the health of those systems. And if they can assimilate that income and if you have a crooked accountant, cause your gut is all off or something like that, right? And then spending and savings is lifestyle bad investments is that clench and that threat, right? So you can have a lot in circulation. But if it's all stuck in a Ponzi scheme all day long, and maybe the Ponzi scheme is infertility, maybe it's childhood trauma, maybe it's all of the above, maybe it's fighting with your partner, maybe it's feeling totally unseen by your sister who's pregnant for the third time, all of this is Ponzi scheme. And so I say, you know, this is the fastest one that we can change. Like we can free up whatever you have in a session, but it has.
Dr. Jane Levesque:To stay in circulation your entire. Right, like you, you know, your entire lifestyle.
Nicole Lange:You were a preemie, you had a, you know, a low starting balance, you started in a deficit. We're not going to have a time machine to go back, but we can say everything you have can get into circulation if we can address that. And I love that at first I was kind of flip about acupuncture for many years. I was like, it's the education, it's the ideas, it's the framework. And then I think really post Covid, maybe like 15 years into my practice, I was like, oh no. Acupuncture is so specifically kind of wizardry, magic and like I'm a super sciency person. But it's, it really is like you put in those points and you can watch on an FMRI where the brain activity shuts off and changes where it lives. You can look at the brainwaves and see that we're changing from the adults, planning, doing kind of brainwaves and moving into the spacey, existing Being meditative, kind of childlike brainwaves. And so I say when you get good. Emphasis on good trauma informs holistic acupuncture that really sees the person and really treats them in a way that makes them feel super safe and reset like this. Because, you know, there's another thing where it's like, let me do the thing that you hate, because that's the study, you know, Let me do the thing. Let's do it more than you have money for. Because that's the study, you know, that's the study. Oh, you're fighting with your partner about coming in to see me. Well, I think you should come in and see. Like, we have to do it in a way that doesn't do any of those things too. Then they get on the table. You do these things to their nervous system. It changes their cortisol levels, changes their other steroid hormone levels, changes their circulation. Everything changes everything. And it makes them feel great. And then you teach them the ways to work with somatics and you. Ways to work with bringing it back and disrupting stress cycles and seeing. Oh, that could be a spiral. I'm not going to get sucked in because that's baby blinders. I'm not going to go up the mountain there because that doesn't actually serve me. And all of a sudden you have this really nice pause in the stress cycle and then this spaciousness to walk out the door and say, okay, I'm going to do this testing with Dr. Jane in a way that, like, really serves figuring out something and being whole. I'm going to cut back here and add this because this I'm curious about. And this I'm kind of over. And I'm, you know, all of these.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Things I find, even finding the right practitioner, I always say, when the student is ready, the teacher will come. And sometimes the patients, they're so. They have a baby blinder. They'll just listen to whoever.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Without. Is this person actually in line with my values and my goals or are they just. It doesn't. It's a study. Yeah. So the science says that. And I'm like, don't forget that the science is studying the body. And so the body is always ahead of science. Always. Because it's. The science is trying to understand, trying.
Nicole Lange:To figure it out.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. And one of my mentors, who I respect so dearly, and she's like, working on her second PhD, 30 years in practice, fantastic fertility specialist. And I'm like, you know, where do you find the balance between the research and she's like, I. Whatever I find in clinic, I go and find research to support it, not the other way around. And I was just like, what? You have a PhD. You have all these, like, you know, you give me a hundred references.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Each lecture, and you're telling me that you sit in with your patients, you listen to them, you see what the body is doing, you get a sense of what's going on, and then you go find research to support that.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:As opposed to the other way around. Yeah. And like, that changed everything for me in terms of practice to be like, oh, my God, I know what this person needs. And I love the research. Don't get me wrong. But the research is trying to find what we already know.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. If we are listening.
Nicole Lange:If we listen. Instead of like, well, this is the protocol. And, yeah, there's a curiosity, if you're clear, there's a curiosity in that style. There's sort of collaboration where it's like, you have to trust me and let me in to tell me what's really going on so that I can meet you there and hold that and talk about it and think about the ways that we do that. I love that. It's just a. In service to wholeness.
Dr. Jane Levesque:I think what allows us in this kind of, you know, is painful and is terrible is, you know, some of the things that happen to us is I imagine that your patients are able to open up to you because you are able to hold the space for them. And you also can sense when someone is carrying trauma because you know what it feels like to carry that trauma. And you also know what it's like not to have it anymore. Or at least not to see the tiger but not have it impact.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. Snarling in my face on a daily basis anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like that, Right. That's a layer. I once saw a really amazing acupuncturist that I admired, and I've learned from her about patterns and point selection and just really amazing. And I went to her practice, and it was. The air conditioner vent was blowing on me. I run hot. I'm a fiery. And I was like, my teeth are chattering. And the CD started skipping in the room, and I thought, is this a test? Am I supposed to take out my own needles? And, you know, I was there for 45 minutes, and fluorescent light started flickering, and I was like, I know she's brilliant, but, like, even the treatment room, the way you communicate with people leading up to the treatment, the way you.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Explained it, the fluorescent light, I Was like, what are you talking about? In an acupuncture office. That's terrible. Yeah.
Nicole Lange:And it's. And, like, I know. I go to transfers all the time, right? So I'm bringing in my work into fertility clinics. They're not set up to be like my clinic. My clinic is lots of layers and very lovely, and it's in a historic building. So I go in and it's like, okay, I have this tiny little lactation room. But I do. I bought. I asked if I could install some shelves. And I put a little dimmable light on the wall, and I bring fake, you know, candles that are LED rechargeable. And I play music, and I play meditations, and I bring an eye pillow, and I put aromatherapy in the room if I'm not in the actual transfer room and all the things. And I have a chair for the partner if they have a partner. And people will have me when they've done it with other people. And they're like, isn't this so different? Isn't this so different? And I'm like, oh, yes. No, it shouldn't be. Like, this is just common sense. But it's not in the protocol. None of that's in the protocol. And I had a nurse practitioner or a nurse manager ask me at one of the clinics I go to. She's like, nicole, what are you doing? I was like, am I doing something wrong?
Dr. Jane Levesque:What did I do?
Nicole Lange:What do you mean by that? And she's like, well, we track all. Every single acupuncturist that comes here. We track how your patients do, like, if you get pregnant, if they stay pregnant, and yours is significantly higher than everybody else's. And I was like, ugh. It's because I don't do a protocol. I treat the person. I don't do more, I don't do less. I listen to them. Like your mentor. And, like, you're talking about. If they tell me they hate a point in their forehead, I'm not gonna do a point in their forehead. You know, and it's supposed to commune.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Exactly.
Nicole Lange:You know the point. You'll like it.
Dr. Jane Levesque:I know the point.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:I don't mind it, but I just think it's. It's funny. Yeah. I love it, but I. It's true. Like, if you don't like it. But someone. Sometimes, as practitioners, I think we. It's hard for us to recognize when it's our stuff, and you just see. Because I think it's coming from a good place. You want to help the people of course, you just. One of my lessons has been all of my patients are reflections. So if I'm getting triggered by a patient, that means I have something to work through. Not this patient in front of me.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And I was at a, like a muscle testing course. And again, another one of my mentors, I remember someone stood up and was like, well, how do you deal with the mom that's in your face about the child when you know exactly what you need to do for the child, but the mom doesn't agree and he looks at her and he goes, well, I don't get triggered by that, but do you? And the woman just was like. Like she was stunned.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And I'm like, oh, my God, it's her. It's not the child or the mom. It's her. She is getting triggered by the fact that the mom is getting in the way of the treatment, but it doesn't matter.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:The mom is the mom and the child is the child. And your job is to reflect and to be present for them and help them solve a conflict. So you get help instead of putting your blinders on and saying, this is the protocol. This is what works. This is what I'm going to do.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And it's like, but you can't do that because there's not single one person. Even twins are not the same.
Nicole Lange:Exactly.
Dr. Jane Levesque:You know, and so we have to be able to be present. And that was a really big lesson. It's like, if I'm getting triggered because this patient needs this point, it's like, well, do they need this point? Or you like that point? Because those are what you like versus what the patient needs. Could be completely different.
Nicole Lange:Absolutely. Yeah. That makes me think of two things. One is also like the sort of practice, your centeredness of I know better than this mom. You know, it's like. Like everything that you're saying, and you never are gonna help that kiddo, if you can't have a relationship and respect and see that mom's wisdom. And it might be totally disaligned with your training, but, like, you have to enter into that place with them before you can. And that's just.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Or at least understand where the mistrust is coming from, you know? Cause she might just not be trusting you, which is. Then there's lack of trust. You can't heal somebody because they're not gonna open up about it.
Nicole Lange:There might be fear, there might be protectiveness of their baby, you know, and so it's like you have to. That is part of that treatment. Equation. And it made me think of when I first graduated. I did, I co wrote with one of my professors an herbal textbook going through school. And so I got all this additional herbal one on one tutelage with him. And I mean, he's just an amazing Chinese herbalist. And I start, I had a raw pharmacy with all these jars of all these Chinese herbs and you'd open them and you'd smell them and I started treating patients and I'm like, oh, I can customize it and I'm gonna give you. If you're not gonna boil em, then I, at least I can give you the powders that you stir up and customize it all. And I would do these formulas and I, you know, do you need a refill? No, I'm good. Still.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Okay, well six months later, still good.
Nicole Lange:I only made you two weeks worth and it's two months. Like, do you need a refill?
Dr. Jane Levesque:No, I'm good.
Nicole Lange:I absolutely had to be like, I think herbs are fun. I think this is really fascinating. I love to figure out what herbal formula would be good, like a sudoku. But it will never work if they don't take it. And so I switch to all patent pills and I get way better results, way better compliance. And for my rare patient that really wants to, it's like, okay, I can have that mail ordered to your house and we can do that if that's something that really floats your boat. But why not do the thing that you can throw in your suitcase when you travel for work all the time and the thing that doesn't taste nasty and isn't like choking down grit and as long as we do that kind.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Of stuff, but most people don't.
Nicole Lange:I did it for more than I should have, probably. I took the most bitter herbs for years and they did help. But I'm a, I'm an acupuncturist. I would do that.
Dr. Jane Levesque:But that's my husband. When we first met, he would like throw up and I gave him greens powders because he's like, I can't do this. Like, what are you? You know. And now he's so much better, but like he just didn't have the taste buds for it. Yeah, like his body was literally rejecting it. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to go a little bit easier.
Nicole Lange:Yeah, let's start with some, I don't know, gummies or something, you know, like just work, ease your way in. Or like, you know, salads or. There's so many, I would say, you know, patients Will be like, do you have. When I asked, do you like ear points? Oh, I had them, and they were kind of intense. Okay, how about if we try some ear beads? Well, do you think I need ear needles? Do you think needles are better? I'm like, only if you like them. So let's do this and see, and we can circle back in another session or two if you want to try it and confirm or deny it.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. And I think the goal is. I want to say one more thing before we go into that. I remember one of my counselors, because it talks about the energy and the space that you create for people, and I think it's very intentional. And so, like, you know, you having your trauma and going through the experience and healing, being able to hold that space. I think it's one of those, like, do I just attract people who have that trauma? Because there's a lot of practitioners that I know who are like, no, none of my patients have trauma. And it's like, they don't have trauma or they just. It's not something that you talk about, you know, or.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:The space that you create. And my counselor, I remember when I was going through school, and I would, like, the school was always so busy and there was so much stuff going on, but then I would go into his office, and there was this, like, stillness, peace. And I would just, like, relax in the chair and want to tell him all about my feelings, you know, what was going on. And I was like, is there, like, what do you do here? Why does this space feels so different? And he's like, well, it's intentional. I just. From, like, how you set the chairs to the lighting to the meditation that I do in this room, and the energy, the intention that I put to create for every client. And I was like, oh, this is intentional. Like, you sit in this room and you meditate and you think about creating a safe space for people. And when I walk through the door, literally, busy, hustle, bustle to walk through a door and go, ah, that's your energy. Like, it was such a big.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. What? It didn't just happen. You didn't just get the right corner of feng shui in the office.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yes, but that's what you were talking about for creating this space. And I think it's a really big gift. And I also think it's a skill that can be taught.
Nicole Lange:Absolutely.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And, you know, as practitioners, like, that's what I've hired some practitioners where I'm like, let's create. How do I create space for My patients let me. It's probably the hardest thing is to make it tangible, you know?
Nicole Lange:Well, and I don't know about your schooling, but we didn't. My teachers were amazing. Mostly from China. And partly it's more of the culture. There's Daoism, you know, there's Eastern philosophy. There's all these things that are kind of woven in. So you don't necessarily go to your acupuncturist and need to learn about Yin Yang theory if you're steeped in a culture that has Taoism. But then it's not part of that education. It's not a part of a traditional acupuncture education. To talk about, like, a philosophical, like, Western medicine is very black and white. Right. It's right, it's wrong, it's good, it's bad, it's yes or no. And like Yin Yang, the diagnosis or you don't. Yeah, yeah. Yin Yang theory is like, oh, it's nebulous. It turns from one to the next. It kind of can be this when you're in this headspace, and this when you're in this other headspace. They're both. Both can be true not at the same time, but in the same brain, in the same heart at different times. And so, like, the idea is that you can be really grateful for all the ways that you're learning and strengthening and connecting and being intentional in infertility. And you can hate infertility and just want to be done with it and just want to scream into your pillow. And you can think your partner is an amazing partner that you absolutely want to have a baby with, and it's totally inequitable. And, like, the burden of treatment falls on the person with the ovaries in such an unequal way. And culturally, it's just, like, cooked in. So even that, like, yin. That's a Yin Yang theory kind of thing. A philosophical, very, like, Eastern thing. And so when we don't learn that in school and we don't learn that when we're sitting with patients, when we don't learn that about when our patients are telling us things and we don't have that framework ourselves, then it's like, well, that sounds bad, you know, or, oh, that sounds like you're doing well. And it's like, no, they're. Everybody is both. I guarantee you. Everybody is both. It's just the moment.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. I do think this is where the life experiences come in. And I'm always grateful for my naturopath. And, like, my counselor was a really Big component of why I practice the way that I practice. And the, you know, the naturopath that asked me, hey, what are your patterns like in life? Where are you frustrated? Not like what you're. He asked me all the digestion asked question. He asked me. He knew my picture. But then it's like, where are you stuck? And I had an answer for him within seconds because I knew. And, like, nobody has ever asked me that, you know, and at that time, it was relationships for me and not being able to attract the right partner.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And I was so frustrated with that. Then it was like, okay, let's go there.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And then, you know, sure enough, there was lots to unpack of why I wasn't able to attract what energy I was putting out. But it's. When I address that, it's like my IBS went away in. I don't even remember. Like, it was weeks and it was just gone. Versus years of struggling and doing any Candida diets and all this stuff. And don't get me wrong, like, you need the diet and all of that. Yes. But when somebody acknowledges you and sees you and your trauma and what you're holding, it's like, wow, somebody helped me.
Nicole Lange:Go into the pasture, and I feel safe. And my gut works a lot better when I'm safe.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Weird.
Nicole Lange:I'm regulated. Yeah. And again, it's not that it, you know, it has to be easy. It's just how you're relating to it. I think the biggest thing is just it's not that the stress of infertility is harmful or the ways that trauma lives in our body ongoing is bad or hurting us. It's just, what are we doing with it? Are we ignoring it? Are we making it worse? Are we saying, oh, that's a different doctor for a different day, or are we witnessing it and entering in and thinking of it as part of this? And.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Of course, and living through it, working with it.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:It's. Yeah. This might be, like, a really simple question, but I think, like, I had that question a lot, and I know a lot of my patients around, like, acupuncture and helping understand it more in a tangible way. But, like, how do you know that your liver is stagnated? By touching a point on my foot or by, do you know what I mean? How do you explain that to people where, okay, I see that your essence is low, or would you do this? This is where a lot of my patients, like, I don't know how it's working, but I think it's working.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Where the more deeper understanding you have of, like, these are the channels. And then, you know, like, having cold feet is really bad for women. You can't have cold feet. You need, like, that's uterus and bladder and, you know, kidneys.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And it's. You know, I have patients who are like, I never thought about that. But now my painful period stopped because I have slippers that I wear.
Nicole Lange:They warmed up my uterus. So cute.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. How does that work? You know?
Nicole Lange:Yeah. Great question. And that. I don't think that. I mean, I have a simple answer, but I think it's really profound. Like, the way that this medicine and holistic experiential medicine came to be works. So. So the way that I explain it to my patients. And I love analogies. And again, because I was not steeped in. I'm not. It's like, it's because you're qi. It's because my qi feels your chi. That's not my way. Right. There's plenty of people, and I'm not. All I know is that I don't know. Right. But that's not me. The way that I think about it is if you had never been in a modern building and somebody locked you in a modern building, you would find a light switch, and you would figure out that it moves, and then it would turn on a light, and you would have no comprehension of what is happening between those two things. You wouldn't need to. You would just say, okay, this does that. And that's really obvious. And there are sometimes treatments that are like that, but more often, it's like a thermostat. And a thermostat is like, I don't know. That doesn't seem like. It doesn't make a noise. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't. There's nothing obvious. Right. But if you really observe, you're like, oh, there's a whoosh over there, and it's warm. Mess with it again, little delay, There's a whoosh over there. Oh, but it's cold. So, you know, you'd have to sit with that and observe for longer. But eventually, again, with zero comprehension of the duct and the pilot light and the blower motor. Thankful for my brother and his training in H Vac for this. Thanks, Matt. You know, we don't need to know. We just need to know. And so then what we do is Chinese medicine is a lot of memorizing and learning patterns. And so, you know, when a person has kidney, yin deficiency is the water element. It's A pattern that classically looks like older women. So it's yin is the coolant and the moisture. So you see dryness, you see lack of nourishment, you see frailty, you see things getting brittle, you see things atrophying, you see things. That's a pretty extreme pattern. And I think it's a big fertility pattern in Chinese medicine. But I don't see it that often in American patients unless they're very close to menopause or have diminished ovarian reserve. But when I see all those things, it's like, oh, and then you look in their AMH is, you know, 0.03, and they haven't ovulated since December, and they, you know, were blindsided by a diminished ovarian reserve. And it's like, you kind of could have seen that from a Chinese medicine perspective already. And so then I have memorized the thermostats that go with kidney indeficiency. And so then it's like, these are the points we're going to do these ankle points, we're going to do these wrist points. We're always going to do the trauma informed stuff with me, because that's a part of this experience. So we're gonna do some vagus stimulation, we're gonna do some centering, some grounding, and that treatment together treats that pattern. And when you pick the right thermostats, you know, you don't have to understand like, oh, that's the afferent bundle of the tibial nerve that travels to the pelvic floor. That's really good for ovarian blood flow. It's like, okay, now we can look at some of the duct work behind the scenes with the science, which I love, but we didn't need that to know to do that treatment, which is really cool. Is that helpful?
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. So there is science behind each point, is what you said.
Nicole Lange:Well, I think so. I mean, that's a Western lens, right? So I. I once was at a conference, and this Western orthopedist, he was a Western doctor, he studied Chinese medicine and he went to study in China and he was feeling himself and he was like, isn't it interesting how, you know, they put all these really major points by all the big nerve bundles and that, it's doing this and this, and he throws out all these, you know, technical terms for what's happening in the nervous system. And, you know, Chinese medicine ended up putting all the points where these nerves are, and the Chinese practitioner that was training him kind of stopped and turned around and goes. Or the nerves are where the Qi is, you know, so it's like, is.
Dr. Jane Levesque:It the chicken or the egg?
Nicole Lange:Yeah. And like, it doesn't matter. It's kind of like the lack of an origin story. Right. That's very Buddhist. Like, do you need to understand or can it just be. That's how it is. And can you just experience it? You know, it's wildly unwestern.
Dr. Jane Levesque:I know. I was like, I think it's very hard for the. It's like the horse and the pasture. You're like, yeah, but I want to know why and I want to know how or I want to know. And being able to let go and step into it. Like, it's just. It's probably the hardest thing now, especially with, like, AI coming in and so much data and so much information coming at us and very technical of.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Then wanting to know exactly how things work and why.
Nicole Lange:And I think that's part of why I've been more successful than I think I would have been if I were like, it's because you're chi. It's like, people can relate. When I'm like, hey, this is what I'm going to do to your brain waves now. And I'm going to leave the room for 30 minutes and you're going to think, this is gonna take forever. And by the time I come back, you're gonna be like, no, that wasn't 30 minutes. And that's your brainwaves changing. And then that happens. And they're like, oh, oh, my gosh. She can totally change my brainwaves. So I don't mind the AI of it, and I don't mind people who wanna know because it's so fun to look at it. And it's like, maybe that's not the end all be all. There's probably 15 other angles that things are working. And placebo. Don't even get me started. We could have a whole nother podcast on the science and the physiological changes just from good placebo. It's like, that's part of good medicine. So, like, things like rituals, things like being intentional in medicine make the outcomes better.
Dr. Jane Levesque:So I think intention is so underrated, to be honest. And I try to teach my patients about that from the get go because they just, like, take supplements and they do stuff. And I'm like, when you sit in the sauna, I need you to visualize toxins leaving your body every time you poop, every time you pee, every time you cry. Like, you are getting rid of stuff with your menstrual. Cycle. You are getting rid of stuff. And, you know, when I show them the test, and it's like, this is all the stuff you have to get rid of. Because I can see whether there's some yeast or the candida, yeast overgrowth, bacterial parasites, even heavy metals, whatever, Right? You are getting rid of the stuff. And I want you to be intentional. Now every time you take a supplement, this one is to replace the bone that has been made out of the heavy metal for so many years, and that's why it's leaching out. So now you're rebuilding stronger bones. You're also rebuilding stronger microbiome or you're rebuilding stronger muscles or whatever it is that I'm working with them to say, be intentional with the things that you're taking versus, like, I just take a handful of things and I have no idea why.
Nicole Lange:: Somebody told me they're for fertility.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yes. But, like, what do you notice? And, you know, the wish that I've had is we have lots in the fertility space, which we don't, because it's like, well, let's introduce one thing at a time and let's see how you feel. Because then you can create that really deep relationship with it. That's what we tend to do because we have the time. We experiment. We, you know, take gross herbs so that our patients don't have to and find the different. Like, is this really worth it? Probably not. They can take, you know, I can't get people to do this, but I can get them to do this. It would be great. We don't. But to be able to make that connection and say, okay, every time I eat good food, I'm rebuilding myself. Like, that is what I'm doing. Every time I sleep or every time I hum or whatever, I'm resetting my nervous system. If you don't have that intention, you don't. It's. I think intention is like presence, you know, so if you have that presence in the moment, it's huge.
Nicole Lange:Yeah. And I love, like I say that's my definition of mindfulness.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Right.
Nicole Lange:It's just engaging in the moment. It's not sitting on a cushion. Oming. It can be, but it can be just, you know, mixing your smoothie without just, you know, in high alert up the mountain. I have to do this because I have to do this. And then I have this. And my day is this versus. I was just telling my husband, we had lunch outside today, and I said, I have this picture of this page of this book that I save and I come across it every once in a while on my computer, on my desktop. And it's the story of this woman who is at a meditation, Karen Mason Miller is her name. And she tells the story about how she got asked to ring the bell at every 30 minutes for people to come and go in the meditation center. And then her teacher asks her if she would do another task during this retreat. And she's like, I. I'm already doing the bell. And the teacher's like, you have a real work ethic problem. And she's like, no, but I work harder than any. You know, I'm up a mountain all day every day, right? And the teacher's like, no, no, no, you make everything work. You know, you make everything mountain when it could be faster. You could be. So I was telling my husband as we were eating, I'm like, you know, I read you make everything work. And my mantra for the last week has been, like, make everything a delight. Like, what if we just made a smoothie and made it and tried to, like, intentionally make it a delight? Like, oh, these are these nutrients. This is explained to me by this person who's invested in explaining things and caring for me. This is made by a company that does these ethical things. And all of a sudden it's just like. And I'm gonna sit on my back with my dog and drink my smoothi for, you know, maybe just two minutes before I have to run, but I'm gonna look at the leaves on the tree blowing and think about, yep, you know something?
Dr. Jane Levesque:I try to trick people into that all the time because I'm like, we're gonna start this 10 week detox. You're gonna follow. And then as they go along, I was like, yeah, how about what? Like, what do you enjoy? And then they're like, but I have.
Nicole Lange:To follow the plan.
Dr. Jane Levesque:And I was like, but now that we can, like, listen to your gut because we've gotten rid of a bunch of infections and like, you no longer crave sugar every second of every day. What do you actually feel like doing? You know, and then we can start listening and leaning into our intuition, but because that's how I feel, you know, and then it's, hey, what do you like doing? I'm like, you can tell me not to do my sauna, I freaking love my sauna. Or my castor oil pack, you know? And so at first I find it's like, yes, you have to start doing the things. But in with the intention of how, what am I going to really like, what Am I going to learn about myself and then what can I take away to do? Because this is how I take care of myself. And that could be.
Nicole Lange:And what ends up feeling like mountain, what ends up feeling like pasture, like.
Dr. Jane Levesque:A Castro can be a mountain, you.
Nicole Lange:Know, Asana can be. And supplements can be, you know, so you. There's infinite ways to do this. So if you pick the one that's stress cycles and trauma and triggery, it's like we don't need to.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yep.
Nicole Lange:It's just not unnecessary.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah. Nicole, in all your infinite wisdom, what would you tell our, you know, patients and listeners who are struggling with infertility and they're resonating to like how to help them get out of the cycle?
Nicole Lange:Yeah. I mean, first, just know that every single intense feeling and reaction is appropriate based on the conditions. Right. And whether the conditions are a less than ideal microbiome or acute grief or past trauma that's been living in your nervous system. These are all there for a reason. And the only way that we change those things is by changing conditions. And so if we pick small cumulative things condition by condition and we really have the context to understand that it is working on our fertility, it's not this. Well, I'm putting some of my energy into self care, but I'm also doing ivf. It's part of ivf, it's part of rebuilding your gut microbiome, it's part of whatever you're working on and it's a part that actually feels good. Then you start to have immediate choices right away. And I just, I have so much information on different ways and you listed a bunch and you give examples and so just start checking in and thinking about what actually makes you feel safer, what actually makes you feel regulated, what actually makes you feel abundant and add more of that. And if you're doing something that you thought might feel like that and it just doesn't show up, don't feel bad pruning it. Try something else. Like this is about curiosity and trial and error.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Yeah, for sure.
Nicole Lange:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Where can people find you? Where can they learn more from you? Are you still taking patients?
Nicole Lange:I generally have a wait list, but I get people started on standby so they can take more short term visits while they're waiting to get access to my full schedule so anyone can reach out to me at any time. I do a lot of online education because I was tired of being the bottleneck. I was trying to teach other acupuncturists.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Great.
Nicole Lange:That felt very slow going. I do have classes for other acupuncturists, but I just decided to go directly to patients. So if you go to my website Life Healing Life and that's as opposed to doctor Fixing Patients Life Healing Life, then you can go to online education. I have tons of fertility freebies. I have an IVF course, I have a 7 day mini course for resetting your nervous system and I have a 90 day foundation all the way up to the greater world going through the nuts and bolts along the way. So I've got something for basically everyone. Yeah, I love doing it so. And I love getting to talk about it. So thank you again for this invitation.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Thank you. It's a really great conversation and you know, I love, I'm always putting vibes to put to pull people in and have good conversations. So it's great when it works. Yeah, it's really great. So I appreciate your wisdom and your vulnerability and yeah, just the wisdom that you shared with us. So thank you so much.
Nicole Lange:Thank you.
Dr. Jane Levesque:Thank you so much for listening. To read the full show notes of this episode, including summary, timestamps, guest quotes and any resources that were mentioned on the episode. Visit drjanelevesque.com podcast and if you're getting value from these episodes, I'd love it if you took 2 minutes to share it with a friend. Rate and leave me a review Review at Rate this Podcast.com Dr. Jane the reviews will help with the discoverability of the show and who knows, I might share your review on my next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and let's make your fertility journey your healing journey.
