Some diagnosed with Hashimoto’s know the emotional and physical roller coaster of being misdiagnosed several times with no solution in sight. Dr. Amie Hornaman approaches her treatment of Hashimoto’s with blood testing plus your symptoms. Yes, changing your lifestyle is the bigger picture, but we also need to address what hormones your body is already producing and what it isn’t. Amie learns how your thyroid operates and what medications you need to be within optimal range to start your healing journey today.

About Amie Hornaman

Dr. Amie Hornaman, a.k.a The Thyroid-Fixer, is a woman on a mission to optimize thyroid patients around the world and give them their lives back using her proprietary transformational program: The FIX Method. She is also the founder of the Institute for Thyroid and Hormone Optimization.

Lab Work Testing Plus Your Symptoms On Your Way to Feeling Better

You’re not only testing for TSH, you’re also testing for T4, T3, reverse T3, and the two thyroid antibodies, TGA & TPO. If Doctors are not testing for all of them, more than likely they never were educated on them to do so. Your prescribed medications are born from the results of the lab work which is why it is imperative to have all of them tested for.

T2, The Forgotten Hormone and The Advantages of Taking It

Our body naturally has white and brown fat. T2 activates brown adipose tissue and when brown fat is stimulated, your metabolism increases burning the white fat. It also stimulates the mitochondria which increases ATP production and gives you more energy. You could also stimulate brown fat with cold exposure.

In This Episode

Dr. Amie Hornaman lists the thyroid hormones and antibodies to be tested in lab work in working with Hashimoto’s [1:57]

Importance of having two antibody tests [5:49]

Why T3 is so often overlooked [9:03]

Difference between medications with only T4 and those with both T3 & T4 [10:03]

Women’s Health Initiative Study [14:36]

Moving your body and eating healthy but thyroid hormones are not properly managed [17:15]

T2, the forgotten hormone [22:40]

Stimulating brown fat [28:53]

How Dr.Amie Hornaman starts treating Hashimoto’s in her patients [31:33]

Quotes

“When I'm asked what your favorite medication is, my answer is always the one that's going to work for you.” [14:27]

“They've taken T2, lost weight, increased their basal metabolic rate, protected their muscle, and they don't come out on the other side gaining 50 pounds.” [25:22]

DISCLAIMER THIS PODCAST/WEBSITE/COACHING SERVICE DOES NOT PROVIDE MEDICAL ADVICE. The information, including but not limited to text, graphics, images, and other material contained, are for informational purposes only. NO material on this show/website/coaching practice/or special guests are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of YOUR physician or another qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding medical treatment. Never delay seeking medical advice because of something you read/hear/see on our show/website/or coaching practice.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or on your favorite podcast platform. 

Topics Covered:

• Fixing your thyroid with the right supplemental care
• Lab work and symptoms go hand in hand with Hashimoto’s
• Testing for T3 and reverse T3 is imperative
• T2 as the forgotten hormone to activate brown fat
• Both, and theory in treating Hashimoto’s

Resources Mentioned:

• Dr. Amie Hornaman Supplement Fixers

Guest Info

Connect with Amie Hornaman on her podcast, The Thyroid Fixer, Instagram, and website.

Follow Dr Emily Kiberd:

Include links to where listeners can find you online:

• Thyroid Strong Website
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Twitter

And when you're in that narrow functional optimal range, that's where you have your best chance at feeling your best at being optimized a feeling like that, like I always say that badass human that you're meant to be. You got to be in that functional optimal range

Dr. Amie Hornaman, aka the thyroid fixer also has a podcast. She's a host to the top rated podcast and medicine and alternative health called the thyroid fixer, with listeners around the globe. She is the founder of the Institute for thyroid and hormone optimization. It's an organization with transformational proven approaches to address thyroid function and support people returning to their full health. She knows thyroid dysfunction well from her own experience with insufferable symptoms, Miss diagnoses and improper treatment Dr. Amie set out to help others who she knew were going through the same set of frustrations and who are on the same medical roller coaster. She's also the creator of the fixer supplement line. And ultimately, she's a woman on a mission to help optimize thyroid patients around the world and give them their lives back. Dr. Amy Hardiman Welcome to thyroid strong podcast. So excited to have you on.

Thanks, Emily. I'm happy to be here.

So I wanted to dive right in every listener to this podcast has Hashimotos or maybe has the symptoms, but maybe hasn't been properly diagnosed. So for women who are experiencing probably the two biggest struggles, severe fatigue, extreme fatigue, difficulty losing weight, what would you recommend that women ideally get ordered for lab work to check their thyroid function?

Yeah, the labs are such a key component because I was misdiagnosed six times a lot of my patients that come to me, I've been told that they're normal, and everything is fine. And yet they know like you said, those symptoms are not right, they know their bodies, they know that something's up. So that's where we really have to get into testing, testing plus your symptoms, plus you tuning into your body and knowing your body. That's what allows a good practitioner to get that full picture and really design a treatment plan that will fix you. So starting with the labs, you're always gonna get TSH, you're always gonna get TSH, that's the standard of care. And yet that is a pituitary hormone. It is not a thyroid hormone. And it does not tell us a whole story. I like to give analogies so people can understand. So whenever I'm talking about TSH, and this may be a wackadoodle analogy, I tell people think about if you had a flood in your basement, and you call the plumber, and your plumber comes in and goes into your kitchen, it looks in your sink and goes Yeah, nothing to see here. You're good and you're like, wait a minute, there's two feet of water in my basement, do don't just leave the house. That's the underlying problem, right and the TSH being normal is literally the plumber covenant and going, yeah, there's nothing coming on to your seat. Well, it doesn't have to be. Now if the plumber walks in and there's water spewing out of your sink, he's going to stick around and say, Hey, there's a problem here. That's TSH, when TSH is elevated, and your doctor actually pauses and goes, or something going on here. That's the water covenant. That's the obvious but there are so many things that can be happening that is not obvious on the surface. That's why we have to go beyond TSH. So that's where we go free T four, T four is the inactive thyroid hormone. When we look at it, free T three, the active thyroid hormone that's one of the most important lab values you can get along with reverse T three, which is the anti thyroid hormone, I have an analogy for you on that too. And then there's TPO and TGA. Those are the two antibodies and I say to with an exclamation point, because I have seen doctors only test one there are two antibodies that test for Hashimotos. Now going back to reverse C three thrown another analogy at you bouncer at the club. Reverse the three is the bouncer outside of your cell door, telling T three it can't get in. So when reverse T three is elevated and do not let your doctor tell you know, do not let your doctor skip this test. Do not let them tell you oh, we only test that in a clinical setting. Yeah, we do test it in a clinical setting meaning that you're laying in the ICU or the ER injured or in a trauma state because it's going to be high because our bodies are smart and our bodies will know when you have to survive. And we're in that survival state. The body goes listen you You don't have to be burning fat, you don't have to grow your hair, you don't have to feel good, you just have to live. So reverse T three will be high in that state of trauma. We don't want it high when you're walking around trying to live life. So that is a must do test. And the rule of thumb across the board, if you walk in with those tests, don't even worry about total T through me just don't even ask for anything extra, total T three, total T four T three uptake. Those are all bonuses. But let's not confuse your doctor too much. You asked for those tests that we just talked about. If your doctor says no, it's time to get a new doctor, period, because they won't even test to see what's going on with you. There's no way in hell that they're going to treat you properly.

Can you share the importance of having both antibody tests?

Yes, you can see Hashimotos present on one and not the other. So it is said in the medical community that TPO is the main test. That's the mack daddy thyroid peroxidase. That's the one that always comes up positive, you have Hashimotos No, it doesn't. I have had plenty of patients have a dead zero on TPO. And then they get flagged with TGA. So you have to test both to really get that full picture of whether or not you have Hashimotos that doesn't make a difference and how I treat you not really I want to optimize you no matter what. And if you're like myself, Cynthia Thurlow and I talked about this on her podcast, we have zero antibodies always have probably always will, but the law of deduction but 95% of all hypo thyroid ism is Hashimotos. And the fact that we also have other autoimmune conditions, albeit minor, you know, psoriasis, whatever, it's going to be Hashimotos. So it doesn't necessarily draw me in the direction of a different treatment, I'm gonna I'm gonna pound you back on gluten free if you have Hashimotos. But even if you don't have Alzheimer's, you feel free. So it's not really going to determine treatment, but it's just knowledge and knowledge is power. Yeah, one of

the antibody tests, checks, antibodies attacking the actual thyroid gland. And then once the antibody test checks, antibodies attacking the circulating like the hormones. Yeah, I have this question often. And if I had my thyroid gland removed, can I still have Hashimotos? I don't have my thyroid gland.

That's totally if she can't, that's why we still test the antibodies. Yeah, because we do want to know is your body attacking the hormones that are trying to get to your cells, you know, we want to know that. So we want to ultimately bring those antibodies down to zero.

And there is a conventional range that you'll see if you get the lab work. And then there's a much more narrow, tighter, optimal range. Why are there two ranges

with any any any lab value that you see on your labs, you have to remember that all of them, I don't care if you're talking about cholesterol, testosterone, the big one that I talked about often or thyroid labs, that standard lab value range that you will fall into and then be called normal air quotes, that was taken from a sick population. And that's the big difference between conventional medicine and functional medicine and functional medicine, we come in and we go, give me your fit, give me your badass people give me the ones who are 50 and they look 30 And let's test them. And then we'll get that range and that is the optimal functional range. So big, big standard lab value range, narrow, functional, optimal range. And when you're in that narrow functional optimal range, that's where you have your best chance at feeling your best at being optimized a feeling like that. Like I would say that badass human that you're meant to be you got to be in that functional optimal range. Yeah. What do you think

reverse T three is so often overlooked? I always thought it was because like it was not a test that insurance covers often but maybe that's not why why do you think

I actually had this conversation with one of the practitioners was part of my team and she said they are taught that if you don't know what to do with the test, you don't run it and a lot of doctors do not even know what reverse T three means. Outside of that clinical setting outside of you laying in the ER the ICU, they don't know what it means they don't know what to do with it. And I mean you and I know like it's breathing you know you got to hire reverse the three are not converting let's lower your T for let's check out the all those conversion things that what literally doctors are like, I don't know what this means.

Can we talk about medication? Yeah, so medication is outside of my chiropractic scope, but I think it's important for listeners to know that there's different approaches to medication of potentially prescribing a medication that is only T four versus a medication that has a combination of T three and T four. Yeah, what's the difference?

So let's start with thyroid medication and reframe it, I want you to think of it as thyroid hormone replacement therapy, because some of you need to replace the hormones that are no longer being made. So listen, if you've had a total thyroidectomy, partial thyroidectomy, radioactive iodine, hands down, you are going to be on thyroid hormone replacement therapy, it is necessary for life. If you had type one diabetes, you wouldn't tell me no, no, I don't want that insulin, it's like, no, you're gonna take this or you're not living. So same thing thyroid hormone needed for life. So we're replacing those hormones that are no longer being made. Now some of you have progressed in the latter stages of Hashimotos, where your thyroid gland is destroyed, and Wilson on there too. So no judgment, not your fault. It just is, right, let's just deal with what is. So you may need thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Now at the same time, we're going to do everything that Emily talks about, and we're going to do all the things, we're going to make sure that your insulin so make sure you're working out correctly, make sure your hormones are balanced, make sure that you got all the nutrients and make sure you're not eating like garbage. I use the term both and because that's how I treat patients. It's both and it's not just let's fix your thyroid, here's some meds by No, it's everything. It's let's look at how you're sleeping. Let's look at how you're eating. Let's look at how you're working out. Let's look at everything and piece that all together that can reduce, let's say the dose of medication, some people get off their medication, but if you need it, you need it. So you have those different categories. Like you mentioned earlier T for that your Synthroid, your lipo, that's what I was put on for five months, it didn't work way back in the beginning. That's my story when I was misdiagnosed six times, then diagnose, then stuck on T for only didn't work at all, hardly ever works.

And when you mean it doesn't work? What does that mean? It just doesn't

relieve symptoms. If you pulled 10 people on T for only, you might find one that goes well. Yeah, I'm alright. I'm okay. And then I would dig deeper. I go well, do you put on weight easily? Are you sleeping? Well? Is your energy low through the day? And a betcha she goes on? Well, yeah, I just thought that this was how I was supposed to feel. So really, I could probably pull 1000 people and find 1000 that say they don't feel well on T for only. So it's checking the box. It's the standard of care. It's what doctors learn in med school. This is what you give. But there's so much more I gave a talk to a group of integrative functional doctors just years ago, and we talked about the different tests needed including reverse T three, and we talked about being in the Synthroid box. And I said, Why are you guys in the sentry box? If you really think about it, if someone comes to you, and they're depressed, you will prescribe this antidepressant and that antidepressant. And if that one doesn't work, we're going to tag on an anti psychotic and some Xanax, but you won't prescribe anything other than T four. Why is that the one Docker raises his hand and goes, that's all we've learned. So just there's so much more, there's so much more out there. There are the MDT so natural desiccated thyroid, that's your armor, your NP nature three used to be in there before it got the boot. But those are the poor sign derive fiery glandulars t 43. blended together, it's in a roughly at this is very rough, roughly 8020 split, we also have to account for a little bit of tea too little bit of tea one in there. And then whatever the fillers are, so it's not an exact if I'm giving you 60 milligrams of armor, are you getting exactly 12 micrograms of T three, no, it's on an exam at 20. But you can kind of think of it not in those parameters, the four to one ratio that is supposed to mimic our own thyroid production of T four and T three, then we have T three, that's your Lyo 13 brand names site ml and T three can come in, it can put up with the T four only. So you can be on T four we can bring into three, we can bring in T three to the nd TS if you're not doing well on that 8020 ratio, you might be T three only like I am where you do not convert at all I give you a key for you get worse. So you can fall in any of those categories. And then we can mix and match. When I'm asked what your favorite medication my answer is always the one that's going to work for you.

Is there any harm to taking T three for a long period of time?

No, it's all false. It is all false. It's just like, Okay, let me compare this to and we're finding out more now because a lot of people are gonna be like, Well, yeah, hormones are bad now. The whi Women's Health Initiative study that was released in 2002 has basically scared doctors and women to not use hormones. Now the reality is if you really break down the studies and look at the studies the rial Lydia's hormones protect you against cancer, they don't cause it. Hormones extend your life. They don't shorten it. Hormones shorten all cause mortality, diseases, disease of aging, like diabetes and heart disease and stroke. But so many doctors are stuck with what they learned in 2002. And 20 years later, they have not broken on that box. Same thing with T three, your doctor might say, well, it's gonna cause a heart attack, and it's gonna cause bone loss. And no, it's not. We've already negated that false belief through multiple studies that show the complete opposite. One study says, Well, you know, what, if you have a fib, maybe a higher dose of T three isn't a great idea, because that could exacerbate it. If you have PACA. Cardio. If you have an existing heart condition already, then we're just more careful. But we're careful with everybody. It's all finding what's going to work for you and your money and your condition. So no, there's no harm in T three, because T three is the act of thyroid hormone, your cells, every cell in your body has a receptor site on it for T three. So it's the same thing. If hormones were bad, we'd have 1415 and 16 year olds having cancer. If T three was bad, we would all be dead, we would all be having heart attacks and breaking our bones stepping off of a curb, because we all have to eat three. And if you're optimal, you have enough of it. If you're not optimal, you don't

do you think it's possible because I think a common recommendation from conventional medicine is move more workout more, eat less, especially as it relates to difficulty losing weight. And I actually saw a patient in the office last week, we were dealing with more biomechanical things, but she had talked about how her doctor had. She was on a combination. I'm not sure exactly what I'd like T three T four, and took her to only T four. And she said she gained 40 pounds in two months. And nothing was changed. Her eating was the same. She's very compliant. Gluten Free watch is what she eats. She doesn't over eat. And she resistance trains four days a week. And I was a little mobile. I was like, Is it possible to lose weight? If your thyroid hormones are not being properly managed? No,

not a chance. You can do everything I've said when I was being misdiagnosed. If I come back, I'll just I'll tell my story briefly. Yeah, I was in competition mode. I was doing competitions. Yeah, the feminine form of bodybuilding. I wasn't all big and jacked up. But the feminine form of bodybuilding, I was doing fitness modeling, and it was never easy for me. I am not a twig. I never was my family's obese, we have type two diabetes rampant. I was always the fat kid. I was having contests with my best friend and sixth graders who could lose the most weight because we were the fat chubby kids. And I would always have to bust my butt. But I done it so many times. I knew what worked for my body. That time that I knew something was wrong. I had put on 25 pounds and Emily, I was eating chicken, broccoli, asparagus, salmon, orange roughy going to the gym twice a day. I mean, I was doing all the things times 10 It wasn't even possible for me to eat less and exercise more. So it was literally my body saying, okay, showing me without thyroid hormone without the proper amounts without your thyroid being optimized. It doesn't matter what you do. You could be perfect in every single area of your life. But without specifically T three. Now the problem is that woman's doctor just ripped away her metabolism. It ripped away the act of thyroid hormone ripped away what her body was so desperately craving that had helped her up to that point. took it away. And now her body's back into a Hypo state.

Yeah, I think it's feels like such a disservice to the women because, like you said, it's like, I was doing all the things I did whatever was told from the doctor yet I couldn't get to that goal. And so we you know, I think there's this element of shame and blame and up what I do wrong.

Yeah, but it's not. Now there really is medical gaslighting that goes on to where you start to think maybe it is my fault. Maybe I am crazy. Maybe I'm overreacting, maybe I just have to get used to this. Like, oh, I'm just getting older. That's what my doctor said. And it's just it's gaslighting. I mean, there's no other term for it. It's not you. You're just not with the right person that's going to tell you, Hey, I hear you. Here's what's going on. It's right here in black and white. I can't tell you the amount of times I have sat with people's labs and they start crying. They're like, why hasn't any doctor told me this before? I'm like, I don't know, because it's already here. I mean, your labs are literally speaking a story and it's obvious. And if someone were to take more than five minutes with you, they would see this, but that just isn't the case. Ace in our system right now.

Yeah, I know ordering lab work is very patient specific but are there any other lab markers that you would check for inflammation or checking for maybe overall health of a Hashimotos patient

definitely. So the list is long I'll try to hit everything insulin a one see our big ones because we always see insulin resistance with hypothyroidism. Hashimotos I love to check all the sex hormones. So ladies, you are more than estrogen. Remember that. So estrogen progesterone, testosterone, we like to check sex hormone binding globulin because if that's high that can actually bind to testosterone estrogen, and to your active thyroid hormone T three, and render that inactive. So we want to check sh BG, DHEA pregnenolone. And then high sensitivity C reactive protein hscrp is a big one, we look at sed rate iron panel with ferritin. Because ferritin is a huge factor in T four to T three conversion, it's a huge factor in your hair, and how you feel it ferritin is low, that's a marker of inflammation, but also can contribute to huge amounts of anxiety and hair loss. So that's the big component, all of the nutrients. So your vitamin D bag, selenium, you can check iodine, that's a separate topic, you can check it in my opinion, because I know you could pull a million different functional practitioners, they're all gonna have different opinion on iodine, you can test it that one time, if the person's not taking it and it's low, you're low, after you start taking it. If you test it with blood, it come back high. But that doesn't mean that you're high and you need to back off of it. So I like Louis and I just all the nutrients that are vital. And I know zinc, I know I'm forgetting a couple but I know I like to run a lot of labs even just a simple CBC with differential CMP. CBC, you know, that can tell us so much that can tell us inflammation underlying infection, bacterial, viral, parasitic food sensitivities, and he can tell us so much.

Yeah, for the sex hormones, those need to get the draw needs to be at a certain time of the menstrual cycle.

These 19 to 22 is optimal. If you're still cycling, if you're menopausal, you can go anytime. But if you're still cycling days, 19 to 22. Now, there are some practitioners that like to draw estrogen on day three, but I know I you know right now with how labs are they're taking forever, you have to make an appointment, just go de 19 to 22. That gives us more than enough. And then if we have to be really get specific. If we're dealing with infertility or something, then we can have you repeat. Yeah,

let's talk about T two. Yeah. I don't even know what T two was until I listen to your podcast the other day. It's the Forgotten hormone. What is T two?

It's so amazing. So I dove into research because we back up again, like 15 years ago, I was using a sub. So I said this on my podcast bodybuilders. They are the OG of biohackers. Right? So bodybuilders always try stuff on themselves, long before it comes down in the mainstream. And we go ahead, that's a good idea. Right? So way back 15 years ago, there was a bodybuilding supplement out that was thyroid related and had this ingredient in it three, five diode oil firing. And I started taking and I started using it with my patients I was like this is before I even dive into the research on I was like, This is awesome. This is I mean, you lose weight, you know, you don't lose muscle, it's increasing your basal metabolic rate. This is fantastic. Well then fast forward to now. Like, you know, there was that product that I use 15 years ago, and I was using it with my patients, but it was body it was, you know, in the bodybuilding realm, so it's hard to tell a 45 year old mom to go to a wacky bodybuilding site. So I need to bring this to my people I need to bring that so I started diving into the research and want to learn more about this three five diet well fire knee which is key to the research is amazing. So when we really started diving into it, no wonder it worked so long ago, and I didn't even know the why it's number one, it activates brown adipose tissue. Now your brown adipose tissue is the brown fat that you want. We actually do have fat on our body that we want. We don't want the white fat. That's the squishy you can grab it. That's what clogs your arteries. That's what sits on top of your organs and burdens. The Oregon's brown fat is metabolically active. It has a ton of mitochondria in it, which is what turns at Brown. And we know that stimulating brown fat actually increases thermogenesis or the burning of your white fat. We can turn by stimulating brown fat, we can turn white fat into Brown, so that's pretty cool as well. Stimulating brown fat also reduces insulin resistance. So it makes you more insulin sensitive. It's renal protective, so it's protecting your kidneys. It's lowering cholesterol. So that's one piece of the puzzle of what T two does in the brown fat arena and we could dive even deeper into all the benefits of stimulating brown fat, but T two also Low activates your basal metabolic rate, it increases your basal metabolic rate, that's the amount of fat that you are burning at rest. So, again, backing up to the bodybuilders they're calling and exercise in a bottle, they're like literally, we could do nothing, and still burn fat and get show ready and build muscle. And here's the thing with T two does not burn your muscle, it only has an affinity for fat, whereas T three, as much as I love it, it's the act of thyroid hormone, it helps a ton of people, T three is going to burn everything, it's just increasing your overall metabolism. And it's not differentiating between burning muscle and burning fat. So you're getting a little bit of a loss in both areas, which you know, a lot of thyroid patients will take because they've been struggling with fat loss for so long. But that's the beauty of tea too is it does not target muscle. So it protects muscle, it actually activates muscles so we can call it kind of I hate to say exercise in a bottle but I still want you exercising please still exercise don't just rely on T to to grow your muscle and burn your fat. But he does that and that's the cool thing is that we actually see some muscle stimulation and activation. And at the same time we see that thermogenic effect of increasing basal metabolic rate burning fat, so you're getting the best of both worlds with T two and I saw a bodybuilder interviewed. It was one of the pros that you know trains a lot of people getting them ready for a show of trains a lot of women specifically and he even said he we know that bodybuilders abused thyroid medication, right? We know that they take it even though they don't need it. So he's like, you know, I don't like using T three with my ladies because it just ends up burning their muscle. I don't want it to burn their muscle because they got to step on stage they're going to look more muscular and lead height because I use you to just burns their fat and it does not have viral mimetic side effects, meaning it's not going to shut down their own thyroid hormone production and cause any kind of like cardiovascular increase, it's not going to increase their heart rate. It's not going to like make them feel speedy and jittery like T three does hand pan it just burns their fat. So when they're done with the show, they don't have a self induced thyroid problem from abusing T three. They've literally taken T two lost the weight increase their basic metabolic rate protected their muscle and they don't come out on the other side gaining 50 pounds because now their thyroids in the trash. Yeah.

Are there any downsides to tea to it sounds kind of magical right?

I know not that I'm seeing not in the literature. I mean there was one study actually have it so right here so there was one study they tested so before to administration, body weight, body mass index, blood pressure, heart rate, they did an EKG and ECG they did all fibroid and liver ultrasounds, they did a one C insulin everything with glycemic control, total cholesterol triglycerides free T three free T for the tested T tube don't ask for a test for T two because this isn't studies only. There's no general assay for the general population, TSH, resting metabolic rate, those are all evaluated at baseline resting metabolic rate increased significantly in all subjects, 4% reduction in body fat and 28 days and serum levels of free T three free T for TSH were unchanged. No effects are observed at the cardiac level. And no change was observed in the placebo whatsoever. So we'll see Bo peeps did not have any kind of fat loss, no negative side effects on the thyroid axis or the cardiac level. Yeah, I mean it's I'm not seeing yet any kind of negative effect.

What are other ways to stimulate brown fat cold because I know it's all the craze right now

call. So you know all y'all who are doing the Wim Hof Method and jumping into ice baths and cold showers. That does stimulate brown adipose tissue. So that's why that's kind of part of that bio hacking space is one more thing you can do to really stimulate that brown adipose tissue and help with weight loss help with fat loss specifically, yeah,

I have not done cold exposure. I did it once at a Wim Hof. Yeah. Yeah. That's like that's kind of as much as I need to do. Like I'm good. But is there other things we should know about T two?

Oh, yes, ATP production. So I know I always focus on weight. But we have to remember that there are fireroad patients out there whose main complaint is fatigue, that crushing fatigue they go you know, this fatigue just wasn't here. I could live life you know, I'd be able to get through my day or something. Yeah, I could do nothing. I could maybe get to the gym and exercise, right? So teach you also stimulates the mitochondria and produces more ATP. So when you begin taking it and that's why I always say if you're going to take it supplementally Take it in the morning, because you're gonna get a little bit of have an increased energy boost from it because it is stimulating the powerhouse of your cell mitochondria. And ATP is the energy production just to kind of shorten and brief it down a little bit. So when we stimulate that, yes, you do get that increase in energy, you might get a little bit warm, even from increasing energy and increasing your basal metabolic rate. Temperature is one of those vitals that a lot of fire practitioners will tell their clients or patients to do and to test for first thing in the morning, because we want to see that low body temperature come up. Now, it's not a surefire, I mean, I am optimized, I'm on a large amount of T three, and I can't crest 97.1. Now, don't put me in 80 degree heat. I hate it. I'm not cold ever. But like core body temperature doesn't go up past that. So that's why I don't really hang my hat on vitals, because it can vary from person to person. But the in general rule is we just want to see it trend upward. If because I started it at 96. So going to 97.1 Hey, that's a win. But don't think that you are not optimized just because you're not over that 98.6 mark. Yeah,

when a Hashimotos patient first comes to you, or maybe they don't even know they have Hashimotos where do you start because I think a really good practitioner will kind of take a patient through a journey will create a hierarchy will address what's most important versus maybe a newer practitioner might just like try and treat everything at once an overload the patients, where do you start?

So thyroid, insulin and hormones, those are the big and it really is hard to not sneak into the nutrient deficiencies a little bit, because I know at the end of the day, if you're right MD is a 30, and I'm treating your thyroid, it's going to be a long journey. Same thing with insulin, if you're insulin resistant, and we're not addressing that, that's going to prolong you feeling better, that's going to keep inflammation in your body, the fastest way to age is high insulin, you're not going to lose weight if you're walking around with insulin resistance, as much as we're treating your thyroid. So that's where that both and theory comes in, I do a lot in the beginning, here's what I don't do, I'm not going to promise you that we can increase a low T three level on your labs and get you losing weight and get that testosterone level up. Because that's vital for you ladies to by fixing your gut, if I've only got to fix your gut, there is no way in hell, you're gonna get better over here. And that's what drives me crazy. And I bet you're found this on my podcast to about functional and integrative and all these terms that were thrown around for marketing purposes, there's a lot of Doc's using them that aren't just to give you a heads up. So you might easily get into all the way to heal your gut program and the promises that your thyroid is gonna get, but it might improve because it crappy gut is going to affect your thyroid production and your immune system and your Hashimotos. But it's not going to magically produce T three. So I won't narrow down and just do one thing, I will do more but the big ones, thyroid, let's get your medication balance that gets you on the nutrients that support it. Let's throw in some virus and fixer T three, let's make sure that you have enough testosterone, let's make sure you're not insulin resistant. I'm out some progesterone now be asleep that's in the toilet because that's the first hormone to go in your 20s and 30s. Let's give you some estrogen if you're if you're menopausal. Let's get all this in play. Then we move over here to how you're eating. Then after you're feeling a little bit better, let's add in some proper exercise. And you know it just kind of sides step by step it in that way. But I really want to focus on thyroid insulin hormones first,

yeah, you have been such a wealth of knowledge. Thank you quite welcome for coming on. Where can people find you

so you can find me on the thyroid fixer podcast on all podcast platforms that are currently is going to come on to. And then on my website, Dr.AmieHornaman on there. That's where you will find what we were talking about today teach you that is in my product, the thyroid fixer, you find that on my store and then of course all social, all social. So just you can find me at Dr. Amie Hornaman on all social platforms.

Amazing. Dr. Amy, thank you.

You're quite welcome. Thanks for having me.

If you enjoyed this episode, or even learned just one new piece of information to help you on your Hashimotos journey. Would you do me a huge favor, rate and review that I read strong podcasts on iTunes, Spotify or whatever platform you used to listen to this podcast and share what you liked. maybe learn something new. And if you didn't like it, well shoot me a DM on Instagram Dr. Emily Kiberd. I read and respond to every single DM I truly believe all feedback is good feedback, even the ugly comments if you're interested in joining the thyroid strong course a home workout program using kettlebells and weights Here's where I teach you how to work out without the burnout. Go to Dr. Emily Kiberd.clom forward slash T s waitlist. You'll get all the most up to date information on when the course launches and goes live special deals and early access bonuses for myself and my functional medicine doctor friends again Dr. Emily Kiberd.com. Forward slash T s weightless. Hope to see you on the inside ladies