In this episode, we cover everything from the growing trust gap in performance marketing to the evolving role of attribution, AI, and search, and what it all means for how marketers prove impact.

What we unpack:

1. Performance marketing’s missing layer: proof

Are clicks, conversions, and ROAS actually telling the truth — or just telling a story?

We explore the growing need for verification, transparency, and accountability in a system built to optimize results… not validate them.

2. Is last-click attribution… not completely broken?

A new study suggests last-click might be more useful than we thought — but only in very specific scenarios.

The catch? Most marketers are using it in the exact wrong places.

3. The future of search: from clicks to answers

With YouTube testing conversational search (“Ask YouTube”), we discuss the shift from search engines to answer engines — and what happens when platforms control not just discovery, but interpretation.

4. The New York Times turnaround

How a legacy publisher is redefining its ad model through games, cooking, and lifestyle content — and why “brand safety” might be the wrong lens entirely.

5. Ad of the Week: Pinterest’s bold move

Pinterest tells users to get off social media.

A platform rejecting the attention economy? We break down why this might be one of the smartest positioning plays in years.

Themes you’ll hear throughout:

• The difference between performance and truth
• Why measurement ≠ impact
• The growing importance of incrementality and validation
• And how platforms are reshaping the rules of attention and discovery

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction

02:19 - The Missing Layer in Performance Marketing

08:05 - Last Click Attribution: A Double-Edged Sword

14:26 - YouTube's Shift to Answer Engine

18:56 - The New York Times: Reinventing Advertising

23:04 - Pinterest's Bold Campaign Against Social Media

28:22 - Upcoming Conversations and Closing Thoughts

Links:

Title: ​The Missing Layer In Performance Marketing: Verifiable Proof

Link: https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2026/05/01/the-missing-layer-in-performance-marketing-verifiable-proof/

Title: By Way of Nico Neumann Predicted Incrementality by Experimentation (PIE) for Ad Measurement

Link: https://www.nber.org/papers/w35044

Title: YouTube Testing New Search Experience - “Ask YouTube”

Link: https://searchengineland.com/youtube-testing-new-search-experience-ask-youtube-475786

Title: How The New York Times is using Games and Cooking to win over ‘never news’ advertisers

Link: https://www.thedrum.com/news/how-the-new-york-times-is-using-games-and-cooking-to-win-over-never-news-advertisers

Ad of the Week:

New Pinterest campaign urges Gen Z to get off social mediaLink: https://youtu.be/qr8bNBuptpU?si=ArB2JWyeVGmMYW-f